Relationship Truth: Unfiltered

By Leslie VernickSociety & Culture Religion & Spirituality Christianity Education Self-Improvement Relationships

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Relationship Truth: Unfiltered episodes

February 17, 2025Pastor's Wife: Called or Confined?
RESOURCES:
Join Walking in Core Strength Today!
Beth Allison Barr's website
"Becoming the Pastor's Wife" by Beth Allison Barr

What does it mean to be a pastor’s wife? Is it a God-ordained role, or has it been shaped by culture? And how do women in ministry or marriage find freedom when their identity feels crushed under the weight of unrealistic expectations?
In this powerful and eye-opening episode, Leslie sits down with Dr. Beth Allison Barr, a medieval historian, pastor’s wife, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as Women’s Paths to Ministry. Together, they uncover the hidden history of women in the church, the pressures placed on pastor’s wives, and the rise of complementarian theology that has harmed both women and men. Beth also shares practical wisdom for women navigating abusive marriages, ministry challenges, and the journey to rediscover their God-given identity.
Whether you’re a pastor’s wife, married to a man in leadership, or simply navigating the tension between cultural expectations and God’s calling, this episode will inspire you to seek truth, embrace courage, and step into the freedom God has for you.
Key Takeaways:
The Pastor’s Wife Role: Cultural, Not Biblical
Many assume the role of the pastor’s wife is biblically mandated, but Beth reveals that it is a cultural construct that emerged in modern history. While the role can be valuable for those called to it, it is not the primary calling for all women. Recognizing this truth is freeing and helps dismantle harmful expectations.
Empowering Lessons from Black Churches
Black pastor’s wives have historically embraced more freedom and authority in their roles, often co-pastoring or pursuing ministry outside their husband’s church. Unlike white evangelical churches, where the pastor’s wife is expected to embody the “ideal” biblical woman, Black church traditions emphasize authenticity and community support.
The Legacy of Women in Church Leadership
The medieval church had space for women in leadership, with figures like Mary Magdalene, Hildegard of Bingen, and Catherine of Siena preaching and holding authority. Beth challenges listeners to revisit Romans 16, where women are commended as apostles, deacons, and house church leaders, proving that women’s leadership has always been part of God’s design.
The Rise of Complementarian Theology and Its Harm
Complementarian theology, which ties women’s worth to their husband’s ministry, rose in the 20th century as a reaction to women gaining autonomy in society. This theology pressures women to prioritize their husband’s needs over their own, often leading to emotional and spiritual harm. It also isolates pastor’s wives, making it difficult for them to find support or speak out against abuse.
The Burden of Perfection and the Danger of Silence
Pastor’s wives—and women in ministry—often feel pressured to maintain an image of perfection, from their appearance to their children’s behavior. This isolation becomes dangerous when they are in abusive marriages, as speaking out can cost them everything. Leslie and Beth discuss the importance of breaking the silence, seeking support, and prioritizing safety over the preservation of harmful institutions.
Becoming God-Centered, Not Husband-Centered
Women are often taught to center their lives on their husbands, but true freedom comes from being God-centered. Leslie and Beth encourage listeners to seek God’s voice and ask, “What are you calling me to do?” Each woman is uniquely gifted and called for a purpose beyond cultural expectations.
48 min
February 10, 2025His Faith Was Fiction
Episode Title: The Courage to Walk Away: Leah’s Story of Love, Loss, and Finding Strength
Introduction
Have you ever found yourself questioning everything you thought you knew about love, trust, and commitment? What if the dream you’ve been waiting for suddenly didn’t feel right? In today’s episode, Julie Sedenko sits down with Leah, a woman who was weeks away from getting married when she made the gut-wrenching decision to call off her wedding. Leah’s story is different from our usual guests—she’s never been married—but her journey of faith, resilience, and self-discovery will challenge the way you think about relationships, red flags, and the courage to choose what’s right over what’s expected.
If you’ve ever felt the pressure of time, culture, or expectations pushing you toward a decision that doesn’t sit well in your spirit, this episode is for you. Leah shares how she navigated an unexpected betrayal, deep grief, and the healing she found through Leslie Vernick’s coaching programs. You won’t want to miss the wisdom and strength that radiates from her testimony.
Key Takeaways:
1. When Love Doesn't Feel Safe
Leah shares how she initially felt deeply connected to her fiancé—he was kind, communicative, and a gentleman. But things changed when they reunited after a period of long-distance. His sudden shift in behavior—being overly aggressive physically and dismissive of her boundaries—set off warning bells. While he never crossed certain lines, Leah realized his actions felt more objectifying than affectionate. This raised the question: Was he really honoring her, or was he testing how much he could get away with?
2. The Danger of Assumed Agreement
Cross-cultural relationships come with unique challenges, but Leah had spent years preparing for this. She believed they had aligned on key values—faith, purity, finances, and family. However, as marriage became imminent, she discovered he had merely tolerated her views rather than sharing them. His ultimate admission? “I thought you would change your mind.” Leah’s story is a powerful reminder that assumptions are not agreements, and time does not equal trustworthiness.
3. The Devastating Reality of Calling Off a Wedding
Leah’s decision to walk away wasn’t just about losing a relationship—it meant leaving her home, career, and the future she had envisioned. She grieved not only the man she loved but the life she had built. At almost 40, she also faced the reality that by the time she found another relationship, her window for having biological children might be closed. The depth of this loss was overwhelming, and she cried nearly every day for two years. But in the midst of her pain, she discovered a deeper truth: sometimes, walking away is the bravest thing you can do.
4. Finding Strength Through Core Principles
As Leah sought healing, she discovered Leslie Vernick’s coaching programs, including Moving Beyond People Pleasing and Walking in Core Strength. These programs provided her with validation, support, and a framework to navigate relationships in a healthier way. Two key lessons stood out:
Courageously Committed to the Truth: Holding onto truth and boundaries is not harsh—it’s healthy. Jesus embodied grace and truth, and so should we.
Empathy Without Enabling: You can love someone deeply while still holding firm boundaries. Someone being upset with you does not make you a bad person.
5. Redefining the Finish Line
Many women are raised to believe marriage is the ultimate goal, but Leah has come to see things differently. While she still desires a healthy marriage, she no longer sees it as a measure of her worth. “I know who I am, whether or not I’m married,” she says. “And I will be the same person if I ever do get married as I am right now.”
Final Encouragement
If you’re facing a difficult relationship decision, remember this: Yellow lights don’t turn green, they turn red. Ignoring the warning signs won’t make them go away. Leah’s story is proof that choosing integrity over convenience may be painful, but it leads to true freedom. You are not alone, and you are stronger than you think.
40 min
February 03, 2025 Power in Powerlessness: Reclaiming Your Decision Making
Resources
Register for Leslie's Webinar, February 13: "I'm Not Okay When You're Not Okay"
Think you might be in a destructive marriage? Get Leslie's Quick Start Guide here.

Do you feel like the weight of every decision in your marriage or family is on your shoulders? Are you struggling with a spouse who refuses to engage or, worse, actively makes things harder? If decision-making feels overwhelming and you're stuck in fear of making the wrong choice, this episode is for you. Leslie Vernick shares insights on overcoming decision paralysis, handling an unengaged spouse, and finding clarity even when the path forward is uncertain.
Key Takeaways
1. You Don’t Have to Make the Perfect Decision
Many people stay stuck in indecision because they fear making the wrong choice. But the truth is, no one has perfect information all the time. Even a wrong decision can provide valuable insight, allowing you to adjust and move forward. Instead of viewing decisions as permanent, think of them as opportunities to learn and course-correct along the way.
2. Indecision Is Still a Decision
Choosing not to decide is, in itself, a decision—with its own consequences. If you're paralyzed by fear or waiting for your spouse to take action, recognize that staying in limbo is creating an outcome, too. Instead of waiting for someone else to change, take responsibility for what you can control and move forward with wisdom.
3. How to Handle a Spouse Who Won’t Participate in Decision-Making
If your spouse is disengaged, you have choices in how you respond: with resentment, with curiosity, or with acceptance. Ask yourself: Is he afraid of making mistakes? Has he been criticized in the past? Does he struggle with change? By approaching the situation with understanding rather than frustration, you can free yourself from bitterness and take action where necessary.
4. Understanding Fear and Avoidance in Decision-Making
Fear can be paralyzing, especially for someone who has been conditioned to avoid risk. Some people resist making decisions due to past trauma, upbringing, or personality differences. For example, if your spouse grew up in an environment where mistakes were punished harshly, he may struggle to take initiative. Recognizing this can help you approach the situation with grace rather than resentment.
5. When You’re Not Allowed to Make Decisions
What if you’re on the opposite end of the spectrum—where your spouse makes all the decisions, even when they are harmful? If his leadership is damaging your family financially, emotionally, or spiritually, you may need to establish firm boundaries. Seeking wise counsel, setting limits, and refusing to enable destructive choices are crucial steps in reclaiming your voice and protecting your well-being.
6. The Power of Boundaries and Choice
Having boundaries helps you exercise your power of choice. This is what I will do. This is what I won’t do. This is what I can do. This is what I can’t do. But setting boundaries also means learning to live with others’ disappointment and resentment. Whether it’s your children, spouse, or extended family, making decisions that are good for you—and ultimately for them—often comes with resistance. Accepting this reality allows you to move forward with confidence rather than guilt.
7. Living from Your Noble Self Instead of Your Emotions
Acting out of your noble self means making decisions that align with who you are in Christ, rather than being driven by fear, resentment, or a need for approval. It’s about showing up in your life with strength and dignity, just like the Proverbs 31 woman. You don’t need to apologize for being wise, decisive, or courageous. God designed you to make choices, and embracing this responsibility is part of spiritual maturity.
8. You Always Have Choices
Even in the hardest circumstances, you still have choices. Viktor Frankl, a Holocaust survivor, wrote that everything can be taken from a person except one thing: the ability to choose how they will respond. If you feel trapped in your marriage, your job, or another painful situation, start by asking: How do I want to be in this moment? What small steps can I take toward change? Recognizing your power to choose—even in small ways—can be incredibly freeing.
9. Trusting God in the Decision-Making Process
God doesn’t expect you to make perfect decisions, but He does call you to trust Him and take action. The Bible says, “You will hear a voice behind you saying, ‘This is the way; walk in it’” (Isaiah 30:21). As you seek wisdom, make the best choice you can, and be open to self-correction when necessary.

47 min
January 27, 2025 The Night I Stopped Pretending
Resources
Register here for Leslie's free workshop, "I'm Not Okay When You're Not Okay"
Leslie's Quick Start Guide
Introduction
Have you ever felt trapped in a relationship that looked perfect on the outside but was suffocating behind closed doors? In this episode, Michelle shares her courageous journey from hiding abuse within the walls of the church to stepping into freedom, healing, and a mission to help other women recognize when difficult crosses into destructive.

If you’ve ever questioned whether your struggles in marriage were just normal hardships or something more harmful, Michelle’s story will provide clarity, validation, and hope.
Key Takeaways
1. Recognizing Red Flags in Christian Courtship
Michelle reflects on the early warning signs she overlooked during dating. While her relationship seemed like a picture-perfect Christian courtship, subtle yet significant issues surfaced: boundary-pushing, controlling tendencies, and an inability to respect her differing opinions. If a man says one thing but does another—especially when it comes to physical boundaries—that’s a serious character concern. A man’s integrity matters more than his words.
2. When Submission Becomes Oppression
Michelle shares how scripture was twisted in her marriage, particularly regarding intimacy. Instead of mutual love and respect, biblical teachings were weaponized to demand compliance. She felt like an object rather than a cherished wife. This distortion of faith kept her stuck, believing she had to endure rather than address the toxic dynamic.
3. The Loneliness of an Unseen Battle
Perhaps one of the most heartbreaking moments Michelle describes is standing alone in the kitchen late at night, feeling used and unseen, while her husband slept peacefully. She cried out to God, struggling to reconcile her suffering with the belief that divorce was not an option. Her prayers shifted over time—from asking ‘How long, O Lord?’ to pleading for rescue.
4. When Christian Marriage Advice Keeps You Trapped
Books like Love and Respect made Michelle believe that if she just respected her husband enough, things would change. But no amount of respect can fix a heart unwilling to change. In a healthy marriage, both partners seek growth, repentance, and mutual love. The problem isn’t just about how a wife behaves—it’s about whether both people are truly honoring God in their marriage.
5. Isolation and Control: A Subtle Form of Abuse
Michelle’s husband worked to isolate her from friends by criticizing their parenting or questioning their submission. She initially believed his concerns, but over time, she realized it was a tactic to keep her dependent. Meanwhile, he maintained his own friendships, often mentoring men and encouraging their wives to submit, reinforcing harmful dynamics.
6. The Breaking Point: When Abuse Turns Physical
Michelle recounts the night her husband physically removed her from their car and abandoned her miles from home. Despite years of emotional and spiritual abuse, this moment shattered her sense of security. Yet, even then, she felt trapped, unsure of where to go or whom to tell. The shame of staying weighed on her, but she also feared the unknown.
7. A Divine Wake-Up Call
In 2023, Michelle experienced a powerful moment with God—a dream, a whispered name, and a podcast episode that spoke directly to her situation. This was her turning point. She finally recognized that her marriage wasn’t just difficult; it was destructive. With courage, she sought help, setting boundaries and eventually moving out when it became clear her husband was unwilling to change.
8. Finding Strength and Support in Conquer
As Michelle searched for answers, she discovered Leslie Vernick through a podcast with Lysa Terkeurst. She dove deep into Leslie’s teachings, and after joining the Conquer group, found the validation and strength she needed to break free. With guidance from a Christian counselor and the support of Conquer, Michelle gained the confidence to make empowered decisions for herself and her children.
9. Understanding True Repentance
A key revelation for Michelle came from a conversation between Leslie Vernick and Chris Moles. She learned that true repentance isn’t just words—it’s a heart transformation. A truly repentant man focuses not on regaining control of his wife but on her healing and well-being. This realization helped Michelle recognize that her husband’s apologies lacked genuine accountability and change.
10. A New Future: Education and Independence
Despite opposition from her husband, Michelle pursued a master’s degree, taking one class per semester since 2020. Now, as she approaches graduation in classical studies, she is excited about her future in education, curriculum development, and potentially women’s ministry. Her newfound independence is a testament to her resilience and faith.
A Call to Freedom
If Michelle’s story resonates with you, you are not alone. Abuse—whether emotional, spiritual, or physical—is not God’s design for marriage. You do not have to stay stuck. There is hope, there is help, and there is a way forward.
For more support, visit Leslie Vernick & Co. and explore resources to help you discern truth, find your voice, and take courageous steps toward healing.
Closing Encouragement
You are precious in God’s eyes. He sees your pain, and He does not call you to endure suffering in silence. If you are struggling in a destructive marriage, reach out for help. Healing, freedom, and a life of true peace are possible. You don’t have to walk this path alone—God is with you, and so is this community of women who have found strength to step into the light.
Stay strong, stay hopeful, and take the next step toward your healing journey today.
41 min
January 20, 2025Why Churches Resist Abuse Ministry
RESOURCES
Leslie's Quick Start Guide
Brad Hambrick's Blog: Why Is It So Hard to Have Constructive Conversations About Abuse?
Church Cares
American Association of Christian Counselors (AACC)
Equip
Show Notes: Why Churches Resist Abuse Ministry
Introduction
Have you ever wondered why churches sometimes hesitate or even resist addressing abuse within their congregations? In today’s episode, Leslie Vernick unpacks this difficult but vital question. She shares her years of experience working with churches and individuals to create safer spaces for those harmed by abuse. Whether you’ve felt dismissed by your church, or you’re striving to bring change, this conversation offers clarity, hope, and practical steps forward. Together, we’ll explore why this resistance exists, what’s changing, and how we can be part of the solution.
Key Takeaways
1. The History of Church Resistance to Abuse Ministry
In the past, many churches believed abuse wasn’t a problem among Christians, leading to unsafe environments for children and vulnerable members.
Change was driven largely by legal and financial accountability rather than a proactive desire for safety.
Churches must recognize the reality of abuse and embrace preventative measures as part of their mission to love and protect their people.
2. The Misconceptions That Fuel Resistance
Many church leaders empathize more with the fear of false accusations than with victims’ lived experiences, despite false reports being rare.
Misunderstandings about what constitutes abuse—such as emotional or sexual abuse within marriage—prevent churches from addressing it effectively.
3. The Role of Leadership in Healthy Relationships
Biblical headship is about servant leadership, not power or control. Healthy leaders use their influence to empower and uplift others, reflecting Christ’s example.
Submission, as taught in Scripture, is a voluntary act rooted in mutual love and respect—not coercion or oppression.
4. Why Individual Healing Must Precede Marriage Work
Starting with marriage counseling in abusive situations often leads to failure. Individual healing for both parties is essential before addressing the relationship.
Churches can support this process by encouraging personal growth and connecting individuals with appropriate resources.
5. Resources to Equip Churches for Better Ministry
Free tools like the Church Cares Curriculum provide essential training for addressing abuse.
Leslie’s EQUIP group offers ongoing support and education for pastors, counselors, and leaders seeking to handle abuse well.
A Personal Invitation
If you’re a church leader, counselor, or someone who wants to advocate for healthier, safer relationships in your community, take the next step. Visit LeslieVernick.com to learn more about EQUIP and access resources designed to empower leaders and protect the vulnerable.
Change is possible when we open our hearts to God’s guidance and truly listen to the pain of those around us. If you’ve been hurt by the church or feel overwhelmed as a leader, know that God sees you and desires healing and growth.
Listen to the full episode now and share it with your pastor or church leader! Together, we can foster safer, healthier communities.
38 min
January 13, 2025Hidden in Plain Sight: Recognizing Emotional Abuse in Marriage
Hear this raw conversation with Julie Sedenko and Jessica about recognizing and escaping covert abuse in her Christian marriage
RESOURCES
Leslie Vernick's website
Leslie's Quick Start Guide
The Relationship Timeline
Love bombing during dating phase
Emotional regulation issues during engagement
Marriage lasted 2 years
Ended with 6-week separation
Red Flags & Patterns
Husband proud of his "manipulation talent"
Consistent gaslighting and emotional control
Sexual addiction disclosed pre-wedding
Financial dependence despite her being primary breadwinner
Isolation from family and friends
Turning Points
The wedding incident revealing deeper issues
Writing "the letter" that sparked change
Breaking point during Bible study
Understanding God's word "faithful" in new light
Finding Help
Leslie Vernick's teachings
CORE program principles
Conquer program
Church community support
53 min
January 06, 2025The Scriptural Case for Women's Value with Elyse Fitzpatrick
Resources:
Elyse Fitzpatrick's website
Elyse's Books
Leslie's Website
Leslie's Quick Start Guide

In this episode, Leslie Vernick talks with Elyse Fitzpatrick the author of over 25 books on Christian living. Elyse holds a master's degree in biblical counseling from Trinity Theological Seminary and is a popular conference speaker and grandmother to six.
Discussing 'Worthy: Celebrating the Value of Women':
Overview of Elyse's book 'Worthy.'
The book celebrates the value of women in the church and society.
The inspiration behind writing 'Worthy.'
Writing and Reception:
Elyse's experiences around 2019-2020 that led to writing the book.
Conversation with Paul Tripp and reading a blog post by Eric Shoemaker.
The unexpected pushback received from various groups, including church leaders.
Handling Pushback:
The surprising amount of resistance to the book's message.
Criticisms, including the apparent lack of focus on traditional gender roles.
Shock and discouragement faced, even being disinvited from conferences and losing publishing contracts.
The Biblical Value of Women:
Discussion on the value of women as depicted in the Bible.
Examples such as Hagar and the significance of her story in Genesis.
Cultural and Church Challenges:
Examination of the church’s fear of women having power.
The issue of power dynamics and the misuse of spiritual teachings to control.
Lessons from the Bible:
Biblical accounts demonstrating God's use and valuing of women.
Stories of women like Eve, Hagar, and Mary of Bethany.
Women as Co-laborers in Faith:
The importance of recognizing women as equal contributors to the faith.
Challenges women face in being seen as more than just traditional roles.
Jesus' Treatment of Women:
Examples from the New Testament showing Jesus' respect and care for women.
Stories of Jesus protecting and valuing women.
Resistance and Reconciliation:
Different responses to sin and accountability between David and Saul.
Importance of genuine repentance and the recognition of women's value in the community.
50 min
December 30, 2024Reconcilation: Ready or Not?
In this episode of Relationship Truth Unfiltered, Julie Sedenko and relationship expert Leslie Vernick tackle the tough topic of reconciliation. If you've ever wondered when or if you should reconcile in a relationship, this episode is for you. They discuss everything from the reasons why someone might separate to how to know if it's really the right time to come back together.
Why Separate?
Leslie talks about the big reasons people choose to separate—from safety concerns to ongoing negative behavior and its impact.
Separation as a Wake-Up Call
Separation can sometimes be a wake-up call. How do you know if it's working?
Spotting Real Change
It's not just about saying sorry. How do you know your partner has really changed and is ready to reconcile?
Legal Stuff You Need to Know
Separation isn't just emotional—there are legal aspects to consider. Make sure you're protected.
Grace and Boundaries
How do you balance giving grace with setting boundaries? We discuss what you can tolerate and what’s a deal-breaker.
When It's Just Not Going to Work
Sometimes, reconciliation isn’t possible. Leslie explains when you should consider calling it quits.
37 min
December 23, 2024 Promise of Peace: Navigating Christmas When Relationships Hurt
This episode, recorded last Christmas, is a reminder that you can find peace in God's presence this Christmas... even if you're dealing with a destructive relationship.

In this episode, Leslie & Julie share memories of Christmas debacles and difficulties as well as very practical tips for being your best self during the holidays.

Rest assured, friend, there is HOPE! He was born and He is risen. Merry Christmas!!
21 min
December 16, 2024Break Free From the Breakdown Mindset
Importance of Mindset
Discusses the critical role of mindset in making real changes.
Leslie explains the difference between breakdown and breakthrough mindsets.
Uses biblical examples like Esther and Joseph to illustrate points.
Breakdown Mindset
Leslie describes what a breakdown mindset is.
Explains its effects using stories of people stuck in victim mentality.
Denial of Reality
Leslie explains how people deny reality to avoid suffering.
Shares examples of false spirituality and its impact on lives.
Personal Story of Grief
Julie shares a personal story about her sister’s tragic death and subsequent family losses.
Discusses the weight of grief and the common but unhelpful reactions from others.
Steps to Breakthrough Mindset
Leslie talks about distinguishing between healthy grieving and a breakdown.
Emphasizes finding meaning in suffering.
Shares the importance of perspective and purpose in tragedy.
Breakthrough Mindset
Leslie explains what a breakthrough mindset looks like.
Provides personal and real-world examples of people converting loss into meaningful actions.
Practical Techniques
Leslie provides practical steps and mindset shifts.
Includes tracking thoughts and noticing the stories we tell ourselves.
Importance of Self-Growth
Stresses the importance of self-growth and taking responsibility for one’s mindset.
Mentions the Empowered to Change group as a resource for developing a noble self.
Empowered to Change
Details about the Empowered to Change group:
Its role in personal growth.
How it helps women navigate difficult times by focusing on individual growth and mindset shifts.
Prayer and Encouragement
Leslie ends with a prayer for women in a breakdown mindset.
48 min

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