Reversing Climate Change

Many hardtech entrepreneurs develop a technology and then figure out how to commercialize it. What happens if you find an industry with potential and then engineer a solution to open an entirely new market to them?

Today's show is with two of the cofounders of CO280: Natalie Khtikian, the Chief Commercial Officer, and Jonathan Rhone, the Chief Executive Officer.

Natalie and John explain what it's like working with an industry as established as pulp and paper, structuring joint venture deals with them, and showing them the potential upside to opening business lines in carbon removal.

The deal mechanics of joint ventures for carbon removal are discussed (though probably deserve their own full show!), and Natalie shares some reasons why she is optimistic about carbon removal despite some of the headwinds the industry is currently experiencing.

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CO280's website

CDR.fyi's leaderboards

Resources

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My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

When you finish painting the Golden Gate Bridge, it is time to paint the Golden Gate Bridge. With a subject as interdisciplinary as carbon dioxide removal, a beginner's mind can also be a great asset!

Marian Krueger is the co-author of Race to Zero: How Companies Can Lead the Way to Climate Neutrality, an intoductory text to CDR that lucidly explains what carbon removal is, why it's necessary, and how to support its continued development.

The book will soon be published (August 4th, 2025), and you should grab a copy for yourself and for the policymaker and/or sustainability professional in your life!

Marian's experience as the Co-Founder and Managing Director of remove, a European nonprofit growing the carbon removal ecosystem through accelerator programming, gives him enormous vantage into the sector.

This conversation goes broad, deep, and discusses some of the biggest questions in CDR.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Race to Zero: How Companies Can Lead the Way to Climate Neutrality

remove

This scene from Hamlet 2 captures the feeling of long-form writing very well!

"New accounting rules blur the line between decarbonization and carbon dioxide removal" from CarbonPlan re: wastewater treatment alkalinity enhancement

Ecological succession

S3E56: Could there be a just solar geoengineering?—w/ Shuchi Talati, Founder of The Alliance for Just Deliberation on Solar Geoengineering

Martingale (betting system)

Cassandra (metaphor)

Resources

This episode's page on the web
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My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

We primarily talk about pulling carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and ocean and storing it. But there are some places where we should actually be using it productively. Is graphite for lithium-ion batteries one of those places?

Makoto Eyre is the Founder and CEO of Homeostasis, a Tacoma-based company making graphite from carbon dioxide. In the future they aim to colocate their reactors with carbon capture and/or removal to create a modular and distributed system of graphite production.

Before the Industrial Revolution we had artisanal production and cottage industries. Then we had centralization and automation. What will production look like when centralization is no longer necessary to provide the economies of scale we had always thought it needed?

The conventional ways graphite is produced is also not so ecologically-inclined. What if the future were both simpler on supply chains and ecology?

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠CDRjobs⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode I did about CDRjobs' Salary Survey and why carbon removers should fill it out⁠⁠⁠

Fill out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠2025 CDRjobs Salary Survey⁠⁠⁠⁠ HERE

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

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Homeostasis

Resources

This episode's page on the web
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My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

When you think of Article 6 of the Paris Agreement, you probably aren't thinking about carbon removal. But should you be?

Today's guest is Victoria Harvey, CDR Strategy Lead at ClimeFi. ClimeFi just structured the world's first Article 6.2 international transfer of durable carbon removal credits between Norway and Switzerland, and there's a lot to discuss!

What is the relationship between corporate climate action and national obligations? Do NDCs (Nationally Determined Contributions) impact corporate net-zero targets? Can corporate action satisfy national goals? Does that somehow leave us double-counting carbon removal?

This and so many more questions about the mechanics of CDR and climate action get discussed! Tune in to learn more and hear about ClimeFi's important work.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠CDRjobs⁠⁠

⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode I did about CDRjobs' Salary Survey and why carbon removers should fill it out⁠⁠

Fill out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠2025 CDRjobs Salary Survey⁠⁠⁠ HERE

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Riverside to record your podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up for the 9Zero climate coworking space with my referral code⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Resources

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ClimeFi

"ClimeFi structures ITMO transfer between Norway and Switzerland under Article 6 of the Paris Agreement" press release

"CDR Market Review: trends and transactions that shaped Q2 2025" blogpost from ClimeFi

CDR Market Review: Q2 2025 report from ClimeFi

Mr. Show's "Pre-Taped Call-In Show" sketch

Resources

This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

Many a business was launched in carbon credits trying to fix a conflict of interest problem. Has Absolute Climate cracked the code? Should registries get out of the methodology development business?

Peter Minor, CEO and Co-Founder of Absolute Climate, is on the show today to talk about the many issues of trying to create an ultimate standard in carbon removal (hence the amazing xkcd meme), and how he thinks the current system is set up to fail.

Are we doomed to always face conflicts of interest? Do we inevitably end up thinking not in terms of ultimate design victory, but balance of power? Is it all just "a dogfight in the Wild West?" Can we all agree upon the same standard?

Listen in to Peter and Ross think the big thoughts and try to white hat hack the system to advance CDR.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠CDRjobs⁠

⁠Listen to the RCC episode I did about CDRjobs' Salary Survey and why carbon removers should fill it out⁠

Fill out the ⁠⁠⁠2025 CDRjobs Salary Survey⁠⁠ HERE

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Riverside to record your podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up for the 9Zero climate coworking space with my referral code⁠⁠⁠⁠

Resources

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Absolute Climate

"Never complain, never explain"

Streisand effect

The Civil Law Tradition by John Henry Merryman and Rogelio Pérez-Perdomo

"Common law" article on Wikipedia

The Wide Lens by Ron Adner

⁠The Spotify image is the absolutely legendary and final word on the quest for One True StandardTM, courtesy of xkcd under Creative Commons. No infringement intended, just a celebration of the genius of their brevity.

Resources

This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

Salary is touchy. It's tied up with shame on all sides: are we being underpaid? Did we overpay for someone that is unfair? Is it too late to fix it?!

Today, host Ross Kenyon monologues about the 2025 Salary Survey from the folks at CDRjobs (which you should go fill out right now!), and shares some lessons he learned about designing HR policies the hard way and from experienced colleagues.

The main lesson is: you're never designing a policy for just one case. That's just the first precedent that will determine how current and future employees try to make sense of a companys policies. Sometimes what can be fair for one can be unfair to many, and vice versa. Wisdom is knowing the difference, and wisdom unfortunately isn't neatly fit upon a bumper sticker.

Anyways, get ready for a thinking show with some anecdotes and a clear call to action!

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

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CDRjobs

2024 CDRjobs Salary Report

2025 CDRjobs Salary Survey

Resources

This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

The Carbon Removal XPRIZE has been a major focal point of the CDR industry for years. And Mati Carbon just won the $50M Grand Prize. How did they do it, and how did their surprising and counterintuitive approach to enhanced rock weathering win over so many other contestants?

Shantanu Agarwal is the Founder and CEO of Mati Carbon, and he's on the show today to discuss how the various novel ways they went to market against the advice of others all added up to being an XPRIZE winner.

Sometimes being mission-driven means breaking all of the other rules!

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

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Mati's website

Email Mati: [email protected]

Carbon Removal XPRIZE

Resources

This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

Everyone thinks of national and international governments leading or failing on climate change. But what about cities and smaller political entities? How can they lead on climate and carbon removal when larger entities may be focused elsewhere? Since carbon removal infrastructure is likely to end up at least partially within urban or periurban environments, how can we prepare ourselves and our policies for such a near-term future?

To answer these and so many more questions, Christiaan Gevers Deynoot, the Founder and Program Lead of the City CDR Initiative joins host Ross Kenyon (who also serves as a Strategic Advisor, Communications for the City CDR Initiative.)

This becomes a discussion about the big questions of political order, whether we prefer bottom-up experimentation and ferment or top-down legibility and scale, and to what degree the agony and the ecstasy of central planning may be present for CDR at the municipal level.

This show gets highly philosophical and highly practical, which is a terrific combination when one can get it!

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠ClimeFi⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Riverside to record your podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠Sign up for the 9Zero climate coworking space with my referral code⁠

Resources

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠

City CDR Initiative on Linkedin

The Federalist Papers

Napoleonic Code

James C. Scott's Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed

Haussmann's renovation of Paris

Resources

This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
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My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

Carbon removal isn't that old. So for someone who's been involved in it for almost fifteen years... that's an elder. And today he's bringing the wisdom he earned the hard way.

Dave Addison is formerly the Virgin Earth Challenge Manager, an effort he began working on in 2010. That's about six years before I had even heard of CDR, so a long time indeed!

Last year, Dave started Planetary Practitioners, a consultancy founded on a long-run vision of helping much more of humankind access decent work in net-positive industries. You can read his writing and keep up with his work here.

One pattern you might notice in shows is that many of the lessons aren't merely about commercial strategy or TRL or unit economics. Much of the best advice is how to walk upon the Earth in a way that shows you belong here. So today, it's more emotional than average. For those of you who want or need such an experience, it is here for you, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with my good friend, Dave.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠ClimeFi⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Riverside to record your podcasts⁠⁠⁠

Sign up for the 9Zero climate coworking space with my referral code

Resources

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"Keep Going", from Dave's Substack for Planetary Practitioners

Virgin Earth Challenge

Longitude rewards system

Carl Sagan's Cosmos: A Personal Voyage

David Grinspoon's Earth in Human Hands: Shaping Our Planet's Future

The Telepathy Tapes

Charles C. Mann's The Wizard and the Prophet: Two Remarkable Scientists and Their Dueling Visions to Shape Tomorrow's World

"It's Just a Ride" by Bill Hicks

"The Darmine Doggy Door" from I Think You Should Leave

Charlie Chaplin's speech from The Great Dictator

Nathan Fielder'sThe Rehearsal

N.B. The meme thumbnail is not original content and is intended for thematic discussion in this episode and its accompanying bonus episode, and is just a common theme whenever Dave and I chat.

Resources

This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous

Should every dollar spent in carbon removal be maximally catalytic? Or is it okay to try to get a really good deal for your net-zero target? What even is this industry for?!

Joining the show today—somehow for the first time ever—is Robert Höglund, a long-time CDR-watcher and writer; Co-Founder of the carbon removal's data repository-of-record, CDR.fyi, and the Head of CDR at Milkywire.

Robert endures a barrage of questions about how his thinking on carbon removal has changed over the years, and him and host Ross Kenyon try to ferret out what it actually means to be catalytic. Is carbon accounting just for knuckleheads? The truth... may surprise you.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠ClimeFi⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Riverside to record your podcasts⁠⁠

Resources

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠

Robert Höglund on LinkedIn

Robert Höglund's website for his advisory work

Robert Höglund's many articles

CDR.fyi

Milkywire

348: Is a Lack of Open Science Holding Carbon Removal Back?—w/ Freya Chay & Tyler Kukla of CDRXIV & CarbonPlan

333: Coproduction & Additionality: How Do We Draw the Line for Carbon Removal?—w/ Grant Faber, Carbon-Based Consulting

"Collective Action Problem" on Wikipedia

The Dark Knight ferry scene

Resources

This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous