Rock's Backpages

In the new episode of the Rock's Backpages podcast we welcome the admirable Andy Schwartz, who Zooms in from upstate New York to reminisce about New York Rocker, the much-missed monthly magazine he edited from 1977 to 1982.

We hear about Andy's early years in suburban Westchester County and his first experiences of live music in Manhattan, which included historic gigs by the Doors, the Dead and Jimi Hendrix. We also learn about Oar Folkjokeopus, the Minneapolis record store where he worked as a student in the mid-'70s, and the local Minnesota publications for whom he wrote his first reviews.

Much of our discussion is taken up with Andy's recollections of New York Rocker founder Alan Betrock, and of his own years at the helm of that essential guide to the CBGB scene that spawned Blondie, Television, Patti Smith, the Ramones and Talking Heads... not to mention Mink DeVille. Clips from Mark "Radio Pete" Bliesener's 1977 audio interview with Willy DeVille include the Mink man's caustic thoughts on the downtown scene and the rock critics who chronicled it.

After our guest recalls his stint as the manager of Smithereens and Beat Rodeo, we hear about his days at Epic Records' Director of Editorial Services and his involvements with artists as diametrically different as Celine Dion and the Allman Brothers. He also reflects on his early involvement with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and assesses its problematic standing in today's music industry.

The episode concludes with Mark's quotes from newly-added library interviews with Ray Davies, Bryan Ferry and Carly Simon, followed by Jasper's thoughts on pieces about Scissor Sisters and Bootsy Collins.

Pieces discussed: Andy Schwartz pays tribute to Alan Betrock, Mink DeVille live in NYC, Willy DeVille audio, Ray Davies to Maureen Cleave, John McLaughlin to Dave Marsh, The Eagles' Hotel California, Carly Simon to James Hunter, Bryan Ferry to Jim Farber, Scissor Sisters and Bootsy Collins' Baker's Dozen.

Content warning: This episode contains discussion of sexual violence (22:45–24:55).

In this episode we welcome the excellent Barbara Ellen, who joins us on Zoom all the way from... well, the other side of London, actually. (It's a long story.)

Barbara talks us through her illustrious writing career from zines such as her own Wax Lyrical and Ooh Gary, Gary (a footie zine dedicated entirely to one G. Lineker, Esq.) via ZigZag (in its Goth phase) to the golden decade she spent in the pages and offices of the NME.

Always highly amusing in print, our guest is no less hilarious in (virtual) person – especially when recalling her 1987 interview with Guns N' Roses. But Barbara is also capable of reverence and seriousness, not least when speaking of the revelatory interview Madonna granted her in 1995.

It's back to belly-laughs when we turn our attention to news of the planned sequel to This is Spinal Tap. A clip from Gavin Martin's 2009 audio interview with Tap axeman Nigel Tufnel (a.k.a. the 4th Baron Haden-Guest) has us all in stitches as we debate the wisdom or otherwise of attempting Spinal Tap 2. Another audio clip – of the late Genesis P-Orridge explaining why Santa Claus was originally a shaman – is almost as funny.

After Mark quotes from interviews with Janis Joplin, Neneh Cherry and Thom Yorke, Barney cites splendid conversations with Beatles boffin Mark Lewisohn and power-balladeering songsmith Diane Warren. Finally, Jasper concludes the episode with his thoughts on Sophie Ellis-Bextor, muzak and a Hip Hop anniversary.

Many thanks to special guest Barbara Ellen.

Pieces discussed: Guns N' Roses, The NME, Madonna, Goldberg on Spinal Tap, Staunton on Spinal Tap, Genesis P-Orridge audio, Essra Mohawk by Michael Watts, Essra Mohawk by Max Bell, Janis Joplin, Lester Bangs, Neneh Cherry, Thom Yorke, Mark Lewisohn on the Beatles, Dianne Warren, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Elevator Muzak and 40 years of Hip Hop.

In this episode we welcome the delightful Daryl Easlea to Hammersmith for a pre-Xmas special on Slade and the sadly-departed Shane MacGowan.

Daryl talks about his Essex childhood: the psychogeography of Canvey Island; his memories of seeing Dr. Feelgood at Southend's legendary Kursaal Ballroom; and how working at Our Price Records led to an eclectic taste palette that stretched from prog-rock to Chic, the subject of his first book in 2004. We jump to Slade, the subject of his latest book, and discuss the legacy of glam-rock's Brummie bovver boys — culminating in the story behind their ageless 1973 hit 'Merry Xmas Everybody'.

From there we sidestep into the parallel '70s stream of prog and public schoolboys Genesis. Clips from Adam Sweeting's 1992 audio interview with that band's former foxhead-sporting frontman Peter Gabriel give us an opportunity to evaluate the achievements of the maverick solo artist and WOMAD founder.

News of Shane MacGowan's death at 65 came in as we were preparing to record this episode. With Daryl's help we do our best to pay tribute to the tragically self-destructive Pogues frontman before Mark recaps on new library pieces about Elton John (1974) and Eternal (1995). Finally, Jasper wraps up with remarks about a 2002 London show by Jack Black's Tenacious D... 

Many thanks to special guest Daryl Easlea. Whatever Happened to Slade? When the Whole World Went Crazee is published by Omnibus and available now..

Pieces discussed: Dr Feelgood, Chic, Mike Rutherford, Whatever Happened to Slade?, Skinhead Slade, Lester Bangs on Slade, Christmas songs, Peter Gabriel audio, Shane MacGowan audio, The Pogues, One More for the Road with Shane MacGowan, Elton John, Eternal and Tenacious D live in London.

In this episode we welcome acclaimed novelist Michel Faber to RBP's Hammersmith HQ and ask him about his new book ... as well as about a 1979 interview he did with the young Nick Cave.

Barney gets the ball rolling by asking the author of Under the Skin and The Crimson Petal and the White what he set out to do with Listen: On Music, Sound and Us. Viewing music through a variety of prisms — from nostalgia and snobbery to racial bias and auditory biology — was the book at least partly an exercise in demystification?

A stimulating conversation unfolds as Michel answers questions about "MOJO-fication", vinyl fetishisation, and live performance. A tangent on tinnitus takes us to his memories of seeing (and hearing) one of the Birthday Party's last shows... and waking up temporarily deaf the next morning. Which in turn leads to discussion of the interview our guest did as a student at Melbourne University with the pre-Birthday Party Boys Next Door, and then to clips from a 1995 audio interview in which Nick Cave answers Andy Gill's questions about Murder Ballads and Kylie Minogue.

Finally the "panel" considers the week's featured artist (and a key influence on the early Birthday Party): the archetypal "MOJO-fied" cult hero who traded musically under the moniker Captain Beefheart — and whose exceptional paintings as Don Van Vliet feature in a new exhibition at Mayfair's Michael Werner Gallery.

After Mark quotes from recently-added library pieces on Little Walter, Sylvester, Ornette Coleman and Björk, Jasper wraps up the episode with his thoughts on articles about the aforementioned Kylie Minogue, Goodie Mob and The Face.

Many thanks to special guest Michel Faber. Listen: On Music, Sound and Us is published by Canongate and available now from all good bookshops

Pieces discussed: 'Revolution 9', David Byrne's How Music Works, Nick Cave: A Boy Next Door, Nick Cave audio, People talk about BEEFHEART!, Captain Beefheart, Don Van Vliet, Little Walter, Joni Mitchell, Iggy & the Stooges, Ornette Coleman, Björk, Phil Everly, Sylvester, McAlmont & Butler, Kylie Minogue, Goodie Mob and The Face.

In this episode we welcome the great Kate Simon, who Zooms in from New York City to answer our questions about her stellar career and the new edition of Rebel Music, her book of classic reggae portraits.

Kate talks about the formative moments that made her a music photographer, plus the 1972 move to London that brought her into the pages of Disc & Music Echo and Sounds. Her hosts quiz her about her timeless shots of David Bowie, Rod Stewart and the Clash before we hear of her first trip to Jamaica in 1976 and the start of her long association with Bob Marley and his fellow Wailers. We also learn more about Kate's friendships with Sounds colleagues such as Jonh Ingham, Vivien Goldman and art director Dave Fudger.

After hearing about Kate's return to her native soil and her '80s work for The Face – as well as her personal preferences as a photographer — we switch coasts to California in order to mark the imminent 80th birthday of Joni Mitchell. Clips from Dave Zimmer's 1983 audio with the First Lady of Laurel Canyon – with her wry observations about Messrs. Crosby, Stills and Nash – prompt more general thoughts on her peerless music from Blue to Hejira to Night Ride Home.

With Mark sipping the last of the summer wine in his beloved Crete, Jasper concludes matters with quotes from — and reflections on — newly-added library pieces about Miles Davis, Rod Stewart and Steve Reich... not to mention a priceless Billy Eckstine reminiscence of gigging with John Coltrane.

Many thanks to special guest Kate Simon. The new edition of Rebel Music: Bob Marley and Roots Reggae is published by Genesis Publications.

Pieces discussed: Kate Simon interviewed by Paul Gorman, Reggae: Black punks on 'erb, Richard Hell, David Bowie, Patti Smith, Joni Mitchell audio, The Seeds, Miles Davis, Rod Stewart, Billy Eckstine, Steve Reich, Queen Latifah and Michael Kiwanuka.

In this episode we welcome acclaimed critic, author and professor Evelyn McDonnell and invite her to discuss her new Joan Didion book, along with the Motels, Britney Spears and California's pop history in general.

Evelyn talks about her early L.A. memories and childhood move to Wisconsin before we hear how she progressed from her college paper in Providence, RI, to becoming the pop critic for the Miami Herald. We also note books such as her Runaways biography Queens of Noise, a suitable jumping-off point for a long conversation about her fellow Californian, Didion.

Mark and Martin reminisce about the impact of Didion's extraordinary essay collections Slouching towards Bethlehem and The White Album, after which we follow her career through to the bestselling Year of Magical Thinking. The L.A. theme continues as we hear two clips from Steve Roeser's 2001 audio interview with Motels singer Martha Davis, putting that band into historical context with discussion of the pre-punk D.I.Y. "Radio Free Hollywood" shows in 1976.

From there we fast-forward to the very different "L.A. Woman" that was and is Britney Spears, which in turn prompts our guest to give her very pertinent take on the [Jann] "Wennergate" debacle of the past month. At a significant remove from all this Hollywood Babylonia was avant-jazz giant Carla Bley, whose death we mark in a conversation about 1971's extraordinary Escalator Over The Hill.

Finally, Mark mentions pieces he's recently added to the RBP library, including interviews with Laurie Anderson and the Byrds' Roger McGuinn, and Jasper rounds the episode off with remarks on pieces about Herbie Hancock and Steve Goodman's Hyperdub label. 

Many thanks to special guest Evelyn McDonnell. The World According to Joan Didion is published by HarperOne and available now.

Pieces discussed: Hollywood Swinging: Joan Didion in '60s L.A., The Runaways, The Motels' Martha Davis audio, Britney Spears at Staples Centre, Britney Spears interviewed by Steven Daly, Carla Bley interviewed by Brian Case, Carla Bley at Queen Elizabeth Hall, Dwight Twilley Band, Dwight Twilley: Magical Mystery Man, Queen Latifah/DJ Mark the 45 King, The Byrds, Laurie Anderson, Steve Goodman & Hyperdub and Herbie Hancock.

In this episode we welcome the left's very own "national treasure" Billy Bragg – beamed in from his adopted Dorset – and ask him about the long and remarkable career that's enshrined in forthcoming box set The Roaring Forty.

Billy revisits his Barking boyhood and early pop and folk influences, culminating in the 1977 formation of Clash-inspired punks Riff Raff. After a brief 1981 detour via the British Army, he explains how he settled on his unique solo style and delivery – and how he wound up on the cover of the NME in January 1984.

Inevitably the conversation turns to politics and the way Billy has managed to retain his charm, humour and compassion in the face of hatred and extremism. An audio clip of Spectator editor Boris Johnson haranguing him at Glastonbury in 2000 is followed by discussion of left-wing patriotism, Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party and our present-day hyperpolarisation.

Martin recalls the day Billy came to tea to ask about the RBP co-founder's father Bill and uncle Ken – and the catalytic impact Ken Colyer's Jazzmen had on the music Billy chronicled so impressively in his 2017 book Roots, Radicals and Rockers: How Skiffle Changed the World. From the Colyers and Lonnie Donegan we cross the big pond to talk about Woody Guthrie, the agit-folk bard whose lyrics Billy and Wilco turned into 1998's Mermaid Avenue album. Clips from Chris Smith's 1999 audio interview with Woody's daughter (and archivist) Nora Guthrie prompt conversation about the Okie icon's mighty legacy.

After Mark quotes from recently-added articles about the Stooges, Frankie Goes to Hollywood and Dr. Dre, Jasper wraps matters up with remarks on Truth Hurts and FKA Twigs.

Many thanks to special guest Billy Bragg. For more about The Roaring Forty, as well as Roots, Radicals and Rockers, visit his website at billybragg.co.uk.

Pieces discussed: Billy Bragg on the cover of the NME, Who the hell does Billy Bragg think he is?, Billy Bragg comes to tea, Nora Guthrie audio, Billy Bragg's Mermaid Avenue, The Stooges, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Dr. Dre, Truth Hurts and FKA Twigs.

In this episode we welcome music writer/photographer turned award-winning TV director Mick Gold and ask him to return to the mid-'70s to discuss pub rock, Bruce Springsteen and the wonderful Let It Rock magazine.

Mick explains how he fell in with Let It Rock's "hard-up left-wing intellectuals" after penning a 5,000-word Beatles thesis at Sussex University. We then hear about the magazine and its eclectic agenda, along with our guest's parallel career as a photographer and his 1976 photo-essay book Rock on the Road.

This in turn leads to a conversation about the "pub rock" scene that mushroomed in London during Let It Rock's 1972-75 lifespan. Along with Mick's 1975 Dr. Feelgood interview, Mark, Martin and Barney share their memories of gigs by Kilburn & the High Roads and Chili Willi & the Red Hot Peppers. The gradual transition from Pub to Punk is recalled and analysed with passing reference to Mick's 1976 Street Life interview with Patti Smith.

The mid-'70s theme takes us into clips from a 2016 audio interview in which Bruce Springsteen talks to Vanity Fair's David Kamp about 1975's breakthrough classic 'Born to Run' — and then to a further discussion of the Boss' inclusion in Jann Wenner's controversial new book The Masters.

After Mark quotes from interviews with Dizzy Gillespie, James Brown, Todd Rundgren, Chic and Wham!, Jasper talks us out with his notes on pieces about Nona Hendryx and Rammellzee.

Pieces discussed: The Band, Rock on the Road introduction, Bob Dylan at 60, Brinsley Schwarz, Dr. Feelgood, Pub Rock Proms, Bruce Springsteen on 'Born to Run', Dizzy Gillespie, Ike & Tina Turner, James Brown, Todd Rundgren, Chic, Wham!, Bruce Springsteen, Nona Hendryx and Rammellzee.

In this episode we invite Richard Grabel to reminisce about his long career as a journalist and music-biz lawyer.

We hear how Richard had his mind blown by an early CBGB double-bill of Television and the three-piece Talking Heads — and about his first reviewing efforts as a student at the University of Pennsylvania. He describes how he got his foot in the door at New York Rocker – reviewing one of Lowell George's last shows for editor Andy Schwartz — and then at the NME on a 1978 visit to London.

Richard's classic reports on NYC's early rap scene provide a perfect opportunity for us to ask him about his visits to the South Bronx and his interviews with Kurtis Blow and Grandmaster Flash. He's also namechecked in a clip from Bill Brewster & Frank Broughton's 1998 audio interview with Brit rap promoter Kool Lady Blue, whose legendary nights at the Roxy club in Chelsea he discusses with his hosts.

After reflecting on the rise of the Beastie Boys and the story of how rap's "flash-in-the-pan" novelty status led to the genre's global domination, Richard explains how he became a high-profile lawyer for such alt-rock bands as Sonic Youth and Dinosaur Jr.

After Mark quotes from interviews with Betty Davis, Jackson Browne and George Michael, Jasper concludes the episode with remarks about pieces on Smash Mouth, *NYSNC and the 16-year-old Lorde.

Many thanks to special guest Richard Grabel.

Pieces discussed: Kurtis Blow, The Funky Four + 1, Grandmaster Flash, Kool Lady Blue, Run-DMC, Beastie Boys, Beastier Boys, Beastiest Boys, Jackson Browne, Ray Parker Jr., Betty Davis, George Michael, Smash Mouth, Blue-eyed soul and Lorde.

In this episode we're delighted to invite Vernon Gibbs to look back on his career as a pioneering soul scribe and A&R man.

Vernon begins by describing his early years as a scholarship student who took the G train from Brooklyn to school on Manhattan's Upper East Side — and his formative years at NYC's Columbia University. He describes how he fell in with the counterculture and began writing about music for the Columbia Daily Spectator. A discussion follows of pieces he wrote about the death of Jimi Hendrix and — later, for NME — the decline of Sly Stone. He also talks about contributing to Crawdaddy! and other rock publications in the mid-'70s.

The 50th anniversary of Marvin Gaye's Let's Get It On gives Vernon's hosts a chance to ask about the 1974 interview he did with the Motown superstar for Zoo World. He then explains how he was hired for A&R positions at Mercury and — more notably — Clive Davis' Arista label, where he worked with P-Funk offshoot Quazar and 'Disco Nights' hitmakers GQ.

Vernon's return to music journalism takes us into a discussion of the downtown New York punk scene and a 1983 Creem interview in which Richard Hell defines "the blank generation". This in turn leads to clips from Jim Sullivan's 1996 audio interview with Talking Heads' Tina Weymouth — and Vernon's thoughts on that most un-punk of CBGB bands — in the week when Jonathan Demme's concert documentary Stop Making Sense is given well-deserved a cinematic re-release.

After Mark quotes from archive interviews with Philly International legend Kenny Gamble (1976), L.A. bete noire Kim Fowley (1979) and smoooooth jazz man Kenny G (1988), Jasper rounds off the episode with his thoughts on Lloyd Bradley's celebration of London's Harlesden scene (2001), Def Jam rapper Ludacris (2005) and "jazz-rock" trio the Bad Plus (2013).

Many thanks to special guest Vernon Gibbs.

Pieces discussed: Jimi Hendrix, Sly Stone, Marvin Gaye, Let's Get It On, Richard Hell, Talking Heads' Tina Weymouth audio, Gamble & Huff, Kenny G, Kim Fowley, Do the Harlesden Shuffle, Ludacris and The Bad Plus.