This week, Vanessa and Natalie talk to The Cut writer Angelina Chapin about Selena Gomez and her mother Mandy Teefey’s mental-health startup, Wondermind. They discuss allegations from former staff and the pressures created when celebrity and mental health advocacy become a business. Read Angelina’s story, “What Happened at Wondermind?” and stay tuned at the end of the episode for more on mother-daughter estrangement from Vanessa’s podcast, So Your Parents Are Old.

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Read Vanessa’s book, Blurred Lines: Sex, Power and Consent on Campus, and check out Natalie on Instagram at @natrobe

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