In this special episode, I sit down with Blair Enns—founder of Win Without Pitching, author of the industry-shifting book of the same name, and co-host of the hugely popular 2Bobs podcast. Blair’s newest book, The Four Conversations, breaks down the critical discussions every business should master for success: the Probative Conversation (positioning and marketing), the Qualifying Conversation (maintaining the expert position), the Value Conversation (pricing a client’s desired future state), and the Closing Conversation (helping the client select and commit).

We go deep into each of these four conversations—what they are, why they matter, and how mastering them can transform client relationships and profitability.

Along the way, Blair shares insights from his decades of experience helping creative businesses win smarter. Whether you’re running a production company, leading a sales team, or navigating growth, this episode is packed with practical wisdom and thought-provoking ideas you can put into practice today.