Donald Trump’s America First policy has reignited a debate that has shaped U.S. history for centuries: Should America lead on the world stage, or should it pull back and focus on problems at home? In this episode, Hillari Lombard sits down with Charles Kupchan—senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, professor at Georgetown, and author of Isolationism: A History of America’s Efforts to Shield Itself from the World—to unpack the past, present, and future of American isolationism.

This episode is a good-faith attempt to understand what America First really means—not just as a campaign slogan, but as a governing philosophy. Whether you support it, fear it, or are just trying to make sense of it, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

Resources that informed this episode:

• Isolationism: A History of America’s Efforts to Shield Itself From the World | Council on Foreign Relations
• Supporting Ukraine Is in Trump’s Interest by Michael Froman & Charles A. Kupchan - Project Syndicate
• Trump Is Right That Pax Americana Is Over - The Atlantic
• The Past and Future of American Isolationism | Council on Foreign Relations

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Charles A. Kupchan is Professor of International Affairs in the School of Foreign Service and Government Department at Georgetown University, and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. From 2014 to 2017, Kupchan served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for European Affairs on the National Security Council in the Obama White House. He was also Director for European Affairs on the National Security Council during the first Clinton administration. His most recent books are Anchoring the World: International Order in the Twenty-First Century (2021), Isolationism: A History of America’s Efforts to Shield Itself from the World (2020), No One’s World: The West, the Rising Rest, and the Coming Global Turn (2012), and How Enemies Become Friends: The Sources of Stable Peace (2010). His forthcoming book is Bringing Order to Anarchy: Governing the World To Come.