In this episode, Andrew talks about his recent deep dive on prompt engineering and the way the AI product landscape is shaking out. Sean talks about his recent trip to Philly for a cybersecurity marketing conference. Then the guys reflect on 2024 and their goals for 2025.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/
• Worth Driving: https://worthdriving.com/

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00:00.00

Sean

two, one, happy birthday Austin, yay.

00:00:02.11

Andrew

Happy birthday, Austin!

00:00:05.29

Sean

How was your recording last week? How'd it go?

00:00:09.74

Andrew

I thought it went really well. um guess you tell me, have you had a chance to listen to it yet?

00:00:13.54

Sean

Yeah, my train from Pennsylvania, from Philadelphia to Virginia last week got very delayed, so.

00:00:20.11

Andrew

Oh no, I'm sorry.

00:00:21.26

Sean

said in the terminal and listened to it. was good. It was, yeah, thought he was super insightful.

00:00:28.35

Andrew

Yeah, Alex was awesome.

00:00:28.63

Sean

I feel like he's beginning, you were a little, what is it like? like like starstruck felt like i was like wow didn't see me like this so before it was good i thought he gave you like really good feedback i thought but i mean there were things i learned from it being someone who's never looked at the stack in the brick stuff and yeah i think it was it was helpful and then i saw the new meta monster update today or that you sent down i was like wow it is way better than before

00:00:36.26

Andrew

Oh, that's funny. Yeah.

00:00:57.50

Sean

and

00:00:59.34

Andrew

Well, that's good. At least I'm taking what I'm being taught and internalizing it and not it's not just going in one ear and out the other.

00:01:05.30

Sean

Yeah.

00:01:07.62

Sean

Right, right.

00:01:08.30

Sean

Like our podcasts usually do.

00:01:09.72

Andrew

Yeah, I tried to also do some of the pulling the slingshot back, as Alex says, some of the anticipation building with the actual release of the podcast episode. So tried to like hype that up. Austin said it worked on him. I'm not sure it made a big difference on our analytics, I think. Yeah.

00:01:33.43

Andrew

You know, I think we had. You know, it's performing better than our average podcast episode, but I think that's as much about like Alex retweeting it as it is anything else. So, you know.

00:01:46.91

Sean

Well, the real magic is, let's see how many people isn't today is right. So hello, new listeners. Austin is Andrew's co-founder, or I'm going to last name.

00:01:51.97

Andrew

Hey, that'd be cool.

00:01:57.22

Andrew

Yep. Austin's my co-founder on MetaMonster. He's the one responsible for making the product look great and function. Well, I'm just the guy who talks about it and is trying to talk about it better, trying to talk about it more good.

00:02:13.12

Sean

Yeah, hell yeah.

00:02:14.59

Andrew

Yeah. How was Philly?

00:02:16.99

Sean

It was good. I went to, so I went to cybersecurity marketing, the cyber marketing conference or cybersecurity marketing conference held by the cybersecurity marketing society. was good. A lot of, mean, no, this is the third time actually.

00:02:27.82

Andrew

Is this their first time doing an in-person conference? Oh, wow. I thought they were all virtual before.

00:02:34.02

Sean

The society, sorry, this is their, this is their third conference. They've done a bunch of like in-person events. Yeah. The society's grown. There's like 500 people at this conference.

00:02:42.76

Andrew

Cool.

00:02:43.91

Sean

yeah, I get to hang hang out with people that I don't usually get to see. And it's weird. It's, it's like the only conference I've ever been to. That's, I think that's i've ever, ever really been to that's not a security conference.

00:02:54.04

Andrew

Hmm.

00:02:54.63

Sean

So it's a whole other sort of vibe.

00:02:56.73

Andrew

Wait, but isn't it, I mean, it's still a security adjacent conference, right?

00:03:01.68

Sean

For sure.

00:03:01.98

Andrew

But it's not hackers talking about like the new vulnerabilities they discovered and like how they reverse engineered some crazy low level protocol or something.

00:03:02.04

Sean

For sure. For sure. But it's not like, you know, it's not like RSA. It's not like i can not be solid. It's yeah. Yeah.

00:03:10.97

Sean

Right.

00:03:14.32

Sean

right right exactly exactly and and it's not like it's also it's also not cyber security vendors trying to sell you on their product

00:03:24.38

Andrew

Right.

00:03:24.67

Sean

like RSA and Black Hat.

00:03:26.34

Andrew

Okay.

00:03:27.48

Sean

And it's also, it's a society it's like a society conference, so it's not, I guess it's almost like the DEFCON, like in that case, like the DEFCON of cybersecurity marketing, like you don't really go to sell anything there, you're not, your customers, I mean, I guess my client customers are there, but I also try not to do any of that.

00:03:32.18

Andrew

What does that mean?

00:03:38.60

Andrew

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:48.90

Sean

yeah There's obviously vendors and sponsors and stuff. We're a sponsor as well. i I literally was just like, I don't want to, like I also would like to attend the conference. So I gave up my booth and switched it out with a 360 camera and just let people use a 360 camera there.

00:04:02.45

Sean

And then went ahead and hung out with people there, but it was good.

00:04:01.81

Andrew

Oh, that'...

In this week's special guest podcast, Alex Hillman (of Stacking the Bricks and 30x500) joins Andrew to coach him on early stage marketing at MetaMonster. They talk through Andrew's recent failed launch (and why not to worry about it too much), what he's doing differently now, and how your identity as a founder can impact your marketing. Plus, what pro wrestlers get right about identity and storytelling and how to create great content when you aren't an expert in your niche.

There's so much great info packed into this discussion, enjoy! By the way, check out Alex's description of 30x500 at the 12:11 mark for a masterclass in positioning. 

Links:

• Follow Andrew on BlueSky: @andrewaskins.com
• Andrew's writing: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• Follow Sean on BlueSky: @seanqsun.com
• Sean's writing: https://seanqsun.com/
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• Follow Alex on BlueSky: @alexhillman.com
• Jumpstart your product empire in 12 weeks with LaunchFTW

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00:01.42

Andrew

All right, so we've got a little bit of a different type of podcast episode. Usually it is me and Sean riffing on the things that we are building, but I'm super excited today because Alex Hillman is here to join us. So Sean is at a conference, so unfortunately couldn't be here today. But as I mentioned on the last episode, Alex very kindly took time out of his day to roast the shit out of my half-assed launch attempt. And then was even more generous and said, hey, I'll take an hour out of my day to come talk to you some more. Let's talk about this in public so that people can learn from this as we work through it together, is super cool. And for anyone who doesn't know Alex's background, Alex has been partnered with Amy Hoy on stacking the bricks and 30 by 500. They've been working on that for, you said 15 years?

00:00:58.53

Alex Hillman

15 years, yeah.

00:01:00.15

Andrew

15 years. I've been reading Stacking the Bricks for ages and really, really love all the content that you all have put out, have looked up to you and Amy for a long time. Still apparently didn't learn anything from from all of that reading, but i'm I'm trying to learn it now.

00:01:15.29

Andrew

So yeah, we're gonna get into it. But Alex, thanks so much for for being here. Just so appreciate you, man.

00:01:22.85

Alex Hillman

Yeah, i'm I'm happy to. This is going to be a good time. And, you know, I think the the common theme through all of this is and there's a lot of folks that read our stuff like our stuff and then willfully do the opposite or think that they did. what We told them and I go, I don't know where you got that from because those words never came out of my mouth. So I say all of that with, you know, with love and, you know, the the roast.

00:01:47.38

Alex Hillman

came from, from that point of view as well. You know, I think that there's, there's cool people doing cool things on the internet. And I know you're, you're a fan of the build in public, trying to eat those and mindset.

00:01:59.19

Alex Hillman

I'm a fan of the help in public. And so that's my thought here is if I can help you, whether it's through a roast on blue sky or a podcast, and there's other folks that that benefit from that perspective, then that's a,

00:02:08.00

Andrew

yeah

00:02:13.34

Alex Hillman

and at least three-way win. I win, you win, and and whoever listens wins. So really, really stoked to get into this.

00:02:18.10

Andrew

Awesome.

00:02:19.52

Alex Hillman

I think you're working on stuff that is common and and easy to get wrong.

00:02:25.03

Andrew

Yeah, appreciate that. Yeah, so to give folks some context, because I imagine there might be people who will listen to this episode who who don't typically listen to small efforts. So a few weeks ago, I sort of kind of launched a alpha-y type thing. Like I'm having trouble even describing it because it was so like half formed. But I basically like got in my head,

00:02:53.09

Andrew

we're okay I'm building this mailing list, I'm getting people on this list, I need to convert these people to you know potential paying users and we don't have a product yet so I need to like kind of pre-sell them but I don't want to actually ask them for money yet so I'm gonna pitch them on being a founding user and I sent out this this one email and basically said like Hey, I want you to be a founding user. You'll get a couple of things. And in return, I want a lot of your time. Click here to sign up. And I'm sort of being facetious, partially to protect my ego, because I candidly was like, once I realized like, kind of how bad I messed up, I was a little embarrassed. Like I had this feeling of like,

00:03:44.44

Andrew

I have run a business before. I thought I knew how to do content marketing and knew how to do some of this stuff. I've been reading your content for years and so um so um realizing that I was making a lot of rookie mistakes was a little embarrassing and so even now as I'm describing it, I'm catching myself using self-deprecating humor as a little bit of a shield.

00:04:04.73

Alex Hillman

that cushion

00:04:05.14

Andrew

hello But but i mean that's kind of that's that's the basic context. I tried to pitch people on being early adopters of some sort. It was a very half-formed ask.

00:04:17.85

Andrew

and and unsurprisingly, the result was kind of crickets. I got one person who responded to me and said, hey, I'd be interested. other than that, no responses. And so I tried to share about this on Blue Sky in that building public mindset and just be like, hey, anyone what what do you all see when you make these kinds of asks early on? And that's when Alex jumped in and was like, hey, tell me more. like what What was the context here? How much did you email these people and And so, yeah, why don't I kick it over to you and you can kind of give that initial context from your side and, you know, we can talk about some of the advice you got and then we'll get into what we're doing next.

00:04:57.12

Alex Hillman

yeah Yeah, I mean, ah you you know first of all, first of all like congrats on shipping anything. like for like to to not Not to backpedal the mistakes that were made, but you know the the making mistakes is is the result of of doing things and trying things. And one of the beautiful things about launches is that there's you know I think there's a myth of a single launch, a single chance.

00:05:22.14

Andrew

Mm hmm.

00:05:23.16

Alex Hillman

And the trut...

In this episode, Andrew discusses feedback he received from Alex Hillman on his marketing efforts for MetaMonster, and how he plans to adjust his approach going forward. He's now focusing more on creating content and building anticipation rather than rushing to convert customers. Sean shares his thoughts on personal branding and how he's reworking his online presence. They also touch on the pros and cons of starter packs for growing following on BlueSky and the value of being an authentic, relationship-based creator versus optimizing for algorithms.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/
• Worth Driving: https://worthdriving.com/

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:

00:00.01
Sean
Happy Thanksgiving, or Happy Post Thanksgiving.

00:03.75
Andrew
Hey, happy post Thanksgiving.

00:04.77
Sean
Hey. Yeah. Did you pick anything up for a Black Friday?

00:09.25
Andrew
Oh my God. I spent too much money. I, I got sucked into a die work where, Twitter thread on, uh, links to black Friday deals.

00:16.04
Sean
Oh, sweet.

00:22.53
Andrew
a couple of the links I was like, Oh, this looks really cool. That's $1,200 for a jacket. I cannot do that. I'm sorry. so I just can't bring myself to do that.

00:30.68
Sean
We gotta invest in yourself, man.

00:36.16
Andrew
I'm trying.

00:36.68
Sean
Okay,

00:36.92
Andrew
I'm trying to like push myself to slowly start buying some nicer pieces. I've got my eye on like a leather jacket. That's more in like the 300 360 range that I might

00:46.87
Sean
not bad.

00:48.08
Andrew
Pull the trigger on at some point in the next year in the next sorry in the next few months but yeah, but entirely too much clothing tend to like just buy nothing and then buy Everything in like one or two goes and then not buy anything for a long period of time And then I bought a bunch of gifts for people so it was actually like normally I don't do shit on Black Friday, but this time I was actually pretty

01:03.52
Sean
Yeah.

01:09.18
Sean
Nice. Sweet.

01:14.74
Andrew
Pretty active on the interwebs, on the, the e-commerce sites.

01:17.08
Sean
three

01:19.45
Sean
well i bought a humidifier so it has an app i haven't downloaded the app yet i know on weekends on weekends when i go to my computer when i'm in front of my computer i always feel like my eyes are really dry and i think it's because of a week of staring at the screen and then i turn on humidifier and it tells you how like dry your room is and it's like i think the like it was it was saying that the healthy range is 30 to 50 and when i turned on it was like

01:22.51
Andrew
Whoa.

01:25.08
Andrew
Welcome to your seventies.

01:36.73
Andrew
High strain.

01:47.95
Sean
15 uh like 1828 something like that it's like cool put that sucker on eyes not dry anymore life hack yeah

01:51.12
Andrew
Damn interesting.

01:55.44
Andrew
I get pretty dry in the winter around here. And then we have radiators. And so if we don't have the windows open, it gets so dry. But usually we have the windows open because our heating system is horribly inefficient.

02:09.12
Andrew
And so you're either like cold as shit or you are sweating. So we have to open the windows to like let excess heat out because we can't just like turn it down. It's old houses.

02:20.83
Sean
Got it. Yeah, sounds fun.

02:22.24
Andrew
It's pain. yeah

02:23.47
Sean
I also bought into, uh, detailed, which is Glenn Alsup's, uh, uh, SEO private group.

02:29.54
Andrew
Oh, Oh, interesting.

02:32.86
Sean
And, yeah, there was no sale. It was just like, here's the option to purchase it, which is kind of badass of him to do on a Black Friday, but.

02:39.65
Andrew
Yeah. It's like, cards against humanity always does the hilarious black Friday stuff. Like one, didn't they ah ah raise prices one year for black Friday? They were like, you can buy cards against humanity for double what it normally costs.

02:48.81
Sean
there

02:52.63
Sean
It's kind of sick.

02:53.77
Andrew
this year they sold a potato with diamonds stuck in it.

02:56.76
Sean
oh cards The original mischief, just saying.

02:56.93
Andrew
Like fucking weird.

03:01.39
Andrew
they They totally are the original mischief. That's very true. Is mischief still kicking? Are they still doing shit?

03:08.22
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They also have Black Friday sale. They're making shoes. I mean, whatever. I feel like they kind of fell off after the big but look big red boot moment.

03:19.61
Andrew
It's hard to like, when your business model is go viral, it's just hard to do that consistently, I think.

03:27.45
Sean
No. I disagree. I disagree. I disagree. I think it's hard to do that consistently and be ethical around how you do it. oh but I don't think ah they had a whole thing where that like, you know, every two weeks they would release a project and like, I'm pretty sure 70% of the projects were all sweepstakes.

03:40.89
Andrew
That might be true.

03:48.93
Sean
They were all like, sign up for things, share it, again, a chance to win in different flavors.

03:49.16
Andrew
Yeah.

03:54.46
Sean
And then with different like creators as well. So,

03:57.62
Andrew
Yeah, that checks out. I mean, fucking Mr. Beast has built yeah the largest YouTube following in the world, basically turning his channel into a lottery.

04:06.87
Sean
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Are you? Yeah.

04:09.00
Andrew
Gambling, gambling and porn.

04:10.69
Sean
Yeah. Hell yeah.

04:11.75
Andrew
So all the Internet's good for.

04:14.21
Sean
I agree. And this podcast, what else have you been up to the past two weeks?

04:20.50
Andrew
So I got roasted last week by Alex Hillman on Blue Sky.

04:22.14
Sean
Yes, you did. I'm Blue Sky.

04:25.75
Andrew
Very, very positively roasted. I I went to Blue Sky looking for feedback on I think I talked about it on the podcast last recording.

04:27.80
Sean
Yeah.

04:30.70
Sean
Mm-hmm.

04:34.84
Andrew
a Like I did this like kind of mini launch and trying to get, of what were we calling them, founding users, get people to convert to founding users.

04:43.58
Sean
Yeah.

04:47.12
Andrew
And we were talking about just like only one person replied. And yeah, it just was kind of a flop. so I was just trying to do the building public thing and talking about it on Blue Sky and asking you know people what what their experience had been with pre-sales and that sort of thing.

05:05.33
Andrew
And Alex Hellman was basically like, bro, you You like half asked this thing, what did you expect? but And I was like, oh, yeah, you're right.

05:14.06
Sean
Uh-huh.

05:16.21
Andrew
Yeah.

05:16.78
Sean
Yeah.

In this episode, Andrew talks about the rapid audience growth he's seeing on Bluesky and the challenges he's running into finding Founding Users for MetaMonster. The guys talk about the idea of product market fit as a spectrum and validation as a way to uncover where you might be on that spectrum, but without ever getting to 100% certainty. Then Sean talks through trying to find his next side project idea.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• CopyWork: https://copy.work/
• Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00.01

Sean

This is a full Andrew podcast with Sean does a support character today Mainly because I was late before this call

00:08.75

Andrew

Uh, I was also kind of late. I was chatting with a friend and it took me a while. Yeah. what's up, man? How are you?

00:17.09

Sean

I'm good. um I'm busy. um Yeah, I'm busy. A lot of things happening with miscreants, Q4, trying to get a lot of things wrapped up before the holidays and and just so much inbound.

00:31.44

Sean

So much inbound.

00:31.83

Andrew

That's great.

00:32.67

Sean

Yeah, it is. It's amazing. You know, partially

00:34.65

Andrew

you see You sound exhausted by it. but

00:36.91

Sean

I'm so tired. Yeah. Well, partially thanks to you for for doing some really good work as well. So I appreciate it.

00:43.48

Andrew

Cool. I'm glad it's been helping.

00:45.98

Sean

Yeah, absolutely. What's up with you? What's going on?

00:49.78

Andrew

So two things I want to talk about today, a small one and then a bigger one that I want to work out some thoughts with, with you and our, our 12 listeners.

01:01.03

Sean

Yeah.

01:02.70

Andrew

so the small one real quick blue sky is popping off right now. It is wild. I've been, I've had an account for like two weeks now and I'm up to 1200 followers.

01:16.59

Andrew

starter kits are this like magical growth hack, uh, where

01:16.28

Sean

he yeah

01:20.44

Sean

Are starter kits just lists but people can auto follow everyone in the list?

01:25.31

Andrew

Basically, yeah, yeah, a starter kit is basically like a Twitter list.

01:26.99

Sean

okay

01:30.65

Andrew

But so in Blue Sky, you have three concepts that that fulfill part of the responsibility of lists um in Twitter. So you have starter kits, which are a way to curate a list of people that you think others should follow most often around the topic. So like, I'm in a couple of like indie hacker, indie founder, bootstrap founder, starter kits. and you can, when you open a starter kit, you can follow individual people or you can just click follow all.

02:01.31

Andrew

and And so that's how I found people to follow. I'm following like 360 people. It's almost all from like a handful of starter kits. And then and it's a really great mechanism for people to very quickly build a little network.

02:18.09

Andrew

And it's if you get added to a couple of these, it's an awesome growth mechanism.

02:22.54

Sean

Hell

02:22.64

Andrew

So I'm up to 1,200 followers. very, very quickly, which is cool.

02:28.21

Sean

yeah.

02:29.29

Andrew

And we'll see how that correlates to engagement. wasn't seeing much engagement for the first like maybe 400 or 500 followers, but now I feel like I'm starting to see some pretty solid engagement.

02:41.50

Andrew

I think engagement is naturally going to lag behind followers on the platform while people are still building a habit of checking and using Blue Sky, because it's still like A lot of people are switching over right now or like signing up and trying it for the first time, and so they're not going to have that usage habit right away. But I'm now seeing more engagement there than I am on tweets, and I have like 2700 Twitter followers.

03:09.80

Andrew

So there's there's starter kits, then there's lists. they do have lists that work exactly like Twitter lists, which are like a non-algorithmic way to curate a list of people whose content you want to view without following them. And then they have feeds, which are custom algorithms that developers can write and publish.

03:31.61

Andrew

so there's like 50,000 feeds. So there's essentially 50,000 different algorithms you can choose to subscribe to and follow. So there's a default discover algorithm. There's a default like following algorithm, where it's just everyone you follow.

03:46.88

Andrew

then you can subscribe to lots of different feeds and customize your algorithm work the way you want to, which is a really cool idea.

03:59.56

Andrew

Yeah.

03:57.79

Sean

that is a really cool idea i wonder i wonder if there's like a secret like if your feed is used a lot you know how like you know plug-in like places that like have that you do upload plugins and stuff will pay out a certain amount if you have like a cool

04:13.36

Andrew

Maybe. Yeah. I don't think they've started doing revenue sharing on blue sky yet. and they very openly said they're going to try to stay away from advertising and sell premium features, which is interesting. sort of Also the blue sky team is only 20 people. There are 20 people on the team.

04:34.05

Sean

So you're saying Musk didn't fire enough people when he joined Twitter. That's what you're telling me.

04:39.64

Andrew

I'm saying it's really cool what they're doing. And they're they're being very open and like chatting with and interacting with the community. Overall, the vibes are just, it I think because it's new, like this won't last forever, but because it's new, people are looking for people to follow. They're looking for content to engage with. therere They're just more open and and curious than where people have more set patterns of behavior that they fall into.

05:11.07

Andrew

So the vibes are really good right ...

In this episode, Sean talks about getting himself out of day-to-day client work at Miscreants, and Andrew provides an update on his slow progress with customer acquisition for MetaMonster. Andrew shares an idea for a side project and they talk about Dharmesh buying the chat.com domain and "flipping" it to OpenAI.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• CopyWork: https://copy.work/
• Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00.98

Sean

All right, what is this thing, Andrew? What are you gonna tell me? even It's been 30 minutes since you told me we we're changing what we're talking about today. Now you've been, okay, go.

00:12.23

Andrew

let me Let me just play this for you and I think it'll all make sense.

00:15.25

Sean

Okay.

00:21.25

Andrew

and

00:24.28

Andrew

hoping you can so into me baby

00:28.45

Andrew

Do you know what this is yet?

00:33.18

Sean

Yes. I know what this is. I know what this is. This is the... I feel bad for all Asian guys in SF. I'll never outdo you, you tech bros. It's fucking over.

00:51.69

Andrew

Wait, wait! graves keepki godam oh

01:02.88

Andrew

I never thought I would hear Mark Zuckerberg with T paid singing sweat, drip down my balls.

01:04.84

Sean

z pain that's what what what do you want to do you want to dissect the lyrics you want to

01:11.18

Andrew

Oh, ski, ski motherfucker. Oh, ski, ski. God damn.

01:17.79

Andrew

Oh my God. I found this and I was like, holy shit. Clear everything. This is all I want to talk about.

01:32.86

Sean

honey

01:32.98

Andrew

I think it's just fucking hilarious. And like, I can't decide if I like love it or hate it. Like I can't decide if it's the best thing ever or the most cringe thing ever. And I think I love it. And I think I love it in part because it is kind of cringe and he just doesn't give a fuck.

01:52.89

Sean

for what it's worth though maybe this was the light at the this was the this was the one piece of uplifting news in recent times my executor the one who keeps us going

02:01.14

Andrew

Right. Oh my God.

02:08.17

Andrew

Yeah. So that, that is the, uh, Mark Zuckerberg collaboration with T-Pain. Uh, their group is unofficially or officially, I guess, Z-Pain. Um, they have one single, which is an acoustic version of Gitlo, which Mark recorded for his wife Priscilla because apparently it's the song they listened to every anniversary.

02:28.74

Sean

Yep, and then you played it for her, and...

02:32.21

Andrew

Is there a video of him playing it for her?

02:33.61

Sean

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:34.49

Andrew

Oh my God, I gotta go watch that. i I mean, he's found something that works. Being a wife guy is working for his brand right now and he is leaning all all the way in.

02:47.07

Andrew

and

02:47.21

Sean

Hey, you know what they say about wife guys, though?

02:50.47

Andrew

Yeah.

02:50.85

Sean

on the internet. okay I just hope he doesn't.

02:53.35

Andrew

Yep, it's gonna blow up at some point.

02:57.23

Sean

I don't think he was on the ditty list, so we'll be okay.

02:57.61

Andrew

But...

03:00.01

Sean

we might or Or the FC list, so we might be okay.

03:04.72

Andrew

For what it's worth, I love T-Pain so much.

03:08.46

Sean

Yeah, he's great. He's great.

03:09.83

Andrew

T-Pain's Tiny Desk Concert is one of my all-time favorites. It's so good.

03:13.97

Sean

i I just love that he is just doing side quests at the moment. Like, the guy's a genius.

03:21.04

Andrew

Zuck or T-Pain?

03:22.12

Sean

No, no, T-Pain. Zuck, I guess, is also doing a side quests at the moment, but like...

03:23.46

Andrew

Yeah.

03:26.12

Sean

I'll just like I'll watch random youtubers and like sometimes T-Pain will just show up like like that are not related to things related to him you know I'm watching like a car guy youtuber boom T-Pain's winning a drift competition yeah I'm on twitch all of a sudden or I'm not on I'm browsing twitch and all of a sudden T-Pain's a streamer I don't know yeah

03:28.43

Andrew

Mm-hmm.

03:36.42

Andrew

Mm hmm. Holy shit, that's cool.

03:47.23

Andrew

By the way, on the Zuck side, I just listened to the acquired episode about Metta, and it made me realize that like. I feel like public perception of Metta is changing a little bit like I feel like Elon Musk buying Twitter.

04:01.86

Sean

Yeah.

04:04.11

Andrew

has kind of has taken a lot of the heat off of meta.

04:06.90

Sean

Yeah.

04:07.45

Andrew

And so now everyone's like, Elon's elon's the evil one.

04:09.12

Sean

He's almost like, it could be so much worse.

04:13.00

Andrew

And yeah, Elon's like, you guys think 2016 Facebook was bad?

04:13.84

Sean

Yeah.

04:19.71

Andrew

Bro, hold my drink.

04:21.08

Sean

Listen, when you gotta be the best at everything, you know?

04:26.64

Andrew

Including being a massive fucking troll.

04:28.86

Sean

Yeah.

04:30.46

Andrew

Yeah, but it made me realize that like I don't hate meta as much as I used to. And I i don't know if that's like.

04:35.61...

In this episode, Andrew and Sean talk about Halloween plans and Sean's decision to kill Stackwise. Meanwhile, Sean has launched two new free tools in the last week! The guys talk about how he did it and what his goals are for both of them. Then they spend the rest of the episode brainstorming marketing ideas for MetaMonster.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• CopyWork: https://copy.work/
• Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00.35

Sean

Cool. Happy Halloween.

00:02.59

Andrew

Happy Halloween.

00:04.93

Sean

Are you going to any parties?

00:05.11

Andrew

o

00:08.27

Sean

Are you doing anything?

00:09.37

Andrew

Yeah, we're so normally we go to Chicago for Halloween hang out.

00:14.09

Sean

Because it's extra scary there. Sorry, go ahead.

00:16.45

Andrew

What?

00:17.99

Sean

It's just so scary in Chicago. and i don't know that's not why that's not why i was That's not why I was going with that.

00:20.19

Andrew

Wow, that's racist, John. Fuck you, dude.

00:26.99

Sean

Jeez, I'm kidding.

00:29.92

Andrew

fucking New Yorkers hating on Chicago. Gross.

00:33.16

Sean

That's not racist. I'm just elitist. That's different.

00:38.29

Sean

Yeah.

00:39.11

Andrew

normally we go to Chicago because, uh, a bunch of Maddie's best friends from high school all live there and they throw a Halloween party every year. So normally early we go and we go out with them and we go to like one bar and then we go get, uh, like shitty Greek food and then we go home.

00:46.34

Sean

yeah

00:56.68

Sean

Nice.

00:57.84

Andrew

but this year we decided to stay in Detroit, because we love Halloween and we love decorating for Halloween and. We've never gotten to be in Detroit for Halloween, we really want to pass out candy this year so tomorrow, which will probably be today by the time I get this published.

01:16.54

Andrew

We're gonna hang out, pass out candy, go drink some beers with our neighbors. And then Saturday, one of our best friends is throwing a haunted carnival party.

01:27.46

Andrew

It's her second year in a row throwing this like haunted carnival themed Halloween party.

01:30.91

Sean

Sick.

01:32.68

Andrew

So we're gonna go to the haunted carnival party and Maddie's dressing up as a ringmaster and I'm dressing up dressing up as a lion.

01:39.02

Sean

Nice.

01:39.91

Andrew

She's like a ringmaster lion tamer and then I'm a lion.

01:42.17

Sean

Yeah, hell yeah.

01:43.56

Andrew

So it's gonna be fun.

01:44.70

Sean

Sick.

01:46.43

Andrew

Yeah, what about you?

01:48.22

Sean

I'm debating on whether or not there's this like Instagram, ah like ah ah actually been sorry. I don't even know what they are. There's just like some cool internet website thing called shell tech that they're like a band or or producer do, or I don't, I don't fucking know.

02:02.36

Sean

They just make music. It's apparently dropped the new album.

02:03.90

Andrew

Fun.

02:05.31

Sean

They have like an album party tomorrow and I think it's for, so maybe that, or maybe I'll be in my room jamming away.

02:08.48

Andrew

pun

02:16.05

Sean

on whether or not stackwise has a future because i am uh-huh yeah

02:19.88

Andrew

wait Wait, wait, pause before we get too far into that. Can you just tell me a little bit about like what Halloween is like in New York? I'm so curious.

02:32.57

Andrew

Like Yeah.

02:33.00

Sean

what is how yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like uh well in queens it's super cute it's very residential you know so everyone like especially in a lot of kids in the neighborhood they walk around and they get candy and there's like really nice areas in queens that people will go to and there's like halloween decorations and stuff yeah exactly exactly the full skies can i think it's a trap i think that's like a like

02:52.01

Andrew

Got to go get the full size candy bars. I went to Costco today and I was this close to buying the full size bars, but yeah, I'm not actually sure it's better.

03:03.66

Andrew

I'm not sure giving out full size bars is better. Like my plan is to give out a big old handful of candy and, and then you get a mix of candy and you get to like spread it out a little.

03:05.94

Sean

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

03:14.05

Andrew

Whereas if I give you a full size bar, you're going to eat it super fast.

03:18.14

Sean

I was just gonna say, like, the expectation of being in a house that gives full-sized candy bars, that's dangerous.

03:21.100

Andrew

Oh yeah. Once you go, once you go full size, you can't go back.

03:24.58

Sean

Yeah. Exactly. You can't, you can't roll back the whatever.

03:27.20

Andrew

Yeah.

03:30.16

Sean

Yeah. But like, yeah.

03:34.39

Andrew

It was 20 bucks for 30 full size bars or 20 bucks for like a five pound bag of candy.

03:40.29

Sean

Yeah, see?

03:40.72

Andrew

And so I was like.

03:42.09

Sean

Did you see that meme of, uh, one of the fuh- uh, like, fuh in a Halloween bucket?

03:47.49

Andrew

Yes, that was so good.

03:47.91

Sean

And it's like, one ...

In this episode, Sean discusses the challenges he is facing (and his new momentum) with his project Stackwise, including finding the right developer and getting the project scope defined. He talks about discovering a no-code tool called Subframe that has helped streamline his design process. Andrew shares his progress building the MetaMonster website with Astro and SpinalCMS, and gets feedback from Sean on the first round of MetaMonster wireframes. They also discuss pricing models and ideas for holding company names.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• New MetaMonster website built with Astro: https://metamonster.ai/
• MetaMonster prototype designs: Click here
• ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• StackWise: Coming soon...
• FigTree: Coming soon...
• Podscan: https://podscan.fm/

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00.76

Sean

The yeah motivation for the podcast is brought to you by Arvid Kahl, the creator of Podscan.

00:09.01

Andrew

Hi, Arvid.

00:10.02

Sean

Hi Arvid. Shout out to Arvid.

00:13.06

Andrew

Podscan, Podscan, Podscan.

00:14.76

Sean

Yeah, the creator of Podscan, excellent tool, doesn't sponsor us, but but has been the reason why we've had three founders reach out to us on Twitter now.

00:25.94

Sean

So that's pretty cool. It's kind of just like a modern day summoning ritual at this point, Beatlejuice.

00:33.81

Andrew

By the way, what did you say is brought to you by podscan? Did you say like, did you say this podcast sounded like you said like the wrong name of our podcast?

00:39.44

Sean

Oh, the oh this episode no, the motivation, the motivation for ah ah for for this podcast, the the the motivation to do today's episode.

00:47.14

Andrew

Oh, okay.

00:50.86

Sean

Yeah, yeah.

00:51.40

Andrew

Got it. Got it.

00:52.63

Sean

Yeah. Now that we are a full minute in.

00:54.17

Andrew

Cool, man.

00:55.65

Sean

but

00:57.34

Andrew

How are you? What's going on?

00:58.79

Sean

I'm good. I'm good. Remember how I was super stressed last week about stack-wise and the lack of movement on it?

01:08.93

Andrew

Mm hmm.

01:10.11

Sean

So I I put some more budget towards it, a little bit more, and just or like a ah you know mentally committed more budget to it.

01:17.41

Andrew

Cool.

01:21.40

Sean

And checked out Lemon.io. a little bit more expensive than I think. We'll see. I don't know. I checked Alumni.

01:29.78

Andrew

Yeah, fair.

01:30.22

Sean

I also went on Upwork to look for devs. Had some like interesting proposals come in. Then I was talking to a dev and He looked really promising. He was like 75 bucks an hour, is like about lemon I.O. prices. So and you know, he he like like takes supplements and and whatnot. So he has some realm of understanding. And then he hit me with a he'd so he reviewed the he reviewed the current code and everything. And then he hit me with a yeah, if you want me to like fully scope it, I'm going to need you to like actually give me user stories and like better Figma wireframes.

02:10.35

Andrew

Like actually project manage and like build a scope and everything like via products manager.

02:11.90

Sean

Yeah, yeah, like actually do it. I know, I know. And then I was like, wow, that's really annoying. I guess that's kind of fair, I guess. um It's hard to so like really feel like I've put my foot best foot forward on this project without having done that. So I did it. I wrote a PRD. I wrote a bunch of user stories. I mean, I had one in the past that was like a loose bullet pointed list, but this was like a little bit more official.

02:35.52

Andrew

Yeah.

02:37.13

Sean

and then I, and then I sort of wireframe, like rewire framing some stuff in Figma. and, uh, you know, that, that, that for a little bit was pushing back my timeline.

02:48.31

Sean

i have a day job which takes more time out of my which takes more than just my regular day so it's like ah like I got maybe like two screens into the fig into the Figma part and I was like damn I really don't want to go like do this all over again because like I have shitty wireframes right I don't um um uh and oh oh and and in the meantime like as as these guys were like reviewing it i i kind of felt a little bit uh like uh like like i don't know at a just like an informational disadvantage a little bit so

03:24.97

Sean

I've also just watched a shit ton of Laravel tutorials and Laravel things. now now I kind of like mostly understand Laravel and PHP, not to a degree that I can write it, but to a degree that I can read it and know what's going on and and like and make edits and stuff.

03:39.55

Andrew

Mm hmm.

03:42.17

Sean

So, you know, I was able to kind of review the proposals a little bit better. That's been my last week until yesterday. And then I remembered that there is this thing I saw, which was a no code frontend React, like build at with tailwind components, or build with like like React components export as React code and tailwind. And it's called subframe, YC startup, super, super small. I don't know how small they are, but very small following.

04:12.66

Sean

Excellent product. God, it's so good.

04:15.69

Andrew

Cool.

04:15.54

Sean

And not only is it good, it feels like a mix between Figma and Webflow, except I'm kind of working with like components. And i if I want more components, I have to make more make them on my own.

04:25.92

Sean

But there's a long list of just basically subframe versions of Tailwind components. And it makes me way happier to be designing in this than designing in Figma, mainly because I hate the idea that if I'm going to desi...

In this episode Andrew tries to pick a CMS for the new MetaMonster website and talks about his dream solution. Then the guys talk about their ideal consulting businesses. Meanwhile Sean is feeling frustrated by how slow his projects are moving, and wishes he could focus on them fulltime for a bit. They also touch on the difficulties of balancing attention to design details versus just getting a product out the door quickly. Finally, Sean shares 3 businesses he loves.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• StackWise: Coming soon...
• FigTree: Coming soon...

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00:00.01

Sean

Uh, yeah, I mean, I was going to talk about, well, I should have your record.

00:00:05.81

Andrew

Do you want to start over?

00:00:07.50

Sean

No, it just let's just roll with it. Hi, everyone.

00:00:10.80

Andrew

Hi, how's it going? Behind the scenes look at Andrew and Sean being a bit of a clusterfuck trying to figure out what the hell the pod about 30 seconds before the pod or five seconds after the pod.

00:00:12.65

Sean

Good.

00:00:20.21

Sean

We're very organized or we're incredibly organized. think, I think it's a good segue into, into like, we can talk about like other service business and I have a segue into it because I was kind of curious about just how your consulting is sort of going now that.

00:00:34.65

Andrew

Okay.

00:00:35.35

Sean

Yeah. but more importantly, some crazy, crazy, crazy tech Twitter stuff going on these days, huh?

00:00:42.87

Andrew

Oh, so when i when I said I wanted to talk about CMSs, yeah the WordPress drama, I feel like we covered a little bit last time.

00:00:42.94

Sean

Since the last.

00:00:49.11

Sean

Yeah.

00:00:49.88

Andrew

There's more updates. it's It keeps getting wackier.

00:00:53.21

Sean

Mm hmm.

00:00:53.72

Andrew

The WordPress founder took over a plugin, which is batshit crazy.

00:00:59.63

Sean

Yeah, I was just going to go from crazy batshit WordPress things into maybe Ghost and then CMS's house imagining.

00:01:08.50

Andrew

Uh, sorry, I totally fucked your, your segue there.

00:01:09.97

Sean

No.

00:01:13.12

Andrew

yeah, anyway, I need to build a website and I'm trying to pick a CMS and I want you to, to I want you to tell me which CMS to use and I'm gonna, I'm gonna like ignore you and tell you why you're wrong on every CMS.

00:01:22.11

Sean

squarepace Okay.

00:01:26.46

Andrew

Like, because they all suck.

00:01:26.71

Sean

Okay. Hit me. Hit me. They do all suck, but hit me.

00:01:31.00

Andrew

Okay. So I think I have it narrowed down. I wanted to use, so I'm trying to build a proper marketing site for MetaMonster so that I can get a little bit of SEO stuff rolling and then publish some content and just like have a place to do marketing.

00:01:51.26

Andrew

um want to build some free tools, want to do some other things to just start building building the list, our waiting list.

00:01:54.30

Sean

Yeah.

00:01:59.89

Andrew

So need to pick a CMS. would typically just build on Webflow. Like Webflow is so fast. It's what I built chart juice on. It's clunky, it's expensive, it has its problems. The CMS sucks if you're doing a lot of content, but for like early stage SaaS website, I don't know many things better. So would typically just do Webflow. But I know one of the marketing channels I wanna try is building

00:02:32.68

Andrew

some free tools to try to drive, get like SEO juice from, from free tools and like some traffic. it just aligns perfectly with MetaMonster, you know, having a free like, enter a link or copy and paste your content in and we'll generate a page title for you. We'll generate a meta description for you. Like it just makes too much sense. Um, and sorry, one second. Let me let my cat in.

00:02:57.67

Sean

got

00:02:58.58

Andrew

Come on in you dork.

00:03:01.38

Andrew

Okay. So yeah, I want to build free tools and like.

00:03:03.43

Sean

You want to build free tools. It's great. It isn't a monster.

00:03:08.40

Andrew

The process of doing that in Webflow is just clunky. I could yeah know i could build them, host them on some free thing like Netlify, and then just like run them on a subdomain.

00:03:19.66

Andrew

But you know if the whole point is SEO, then running it on a subdomain is a little counterproductive. you know It's not the worst thing in the world, I guess, but you're just like, do they now?

00:03:28.86

Sean

does it you I thought subdomains count as the main domains. like Yeah, I thought that was the whole thing.

00:03:38.16

Andrew

I feel, oh, okay, I need to look into that. Cause that would massively simplify my my problems.

00:03:44.34

Sean

right

00:03:46.07

Andrew

I always thought like best practice was to do everything on your primary domain and that like subdomains got treated differently.

00:03:52.10

Sean

I thought that

00:03:56.09

Andrew

You're looking it up.

00:03:57.51

Sean

Yeah, I'm looking it up. I feel like it was something.

00:04:01.40

Andrew

There was a Google update, like in this, one of these new big updates, they they started

00:04:02.81

Sean

Yeah.

00:04:06.13

Sean

Yeah.

00:04:07.62

Andrew

Mashing it all together.

00:04:08.89

Sean

Yeah. I mean, Ahrefs literally pulls shop.mistreins.com and mistreins.com into one thing now for me.

00:04:16.03

Andrew

Interesting.

00:04:16.97

Sean

So. I don't know. Yea...

Sean just got back from two weeks in Korea and Japan. His trip got derailed when he had to jump in to put out fires and finish some Webflow dev work for a client. He and Andrew talk about the challenges of removing yourself from the day-to-day as an agency owner and how to balance work and time off. 

Andrew gives an update on the client work he's doing with Miscreants, his decision to put ChartJuice on the backburner, and the traction he's seeing with a new product (MetaMonster) he's working on with a partner. MetaMonster helps SEO agencies automate metadata cleanup using AI. He already has 3 agencies/consultants signed on to be design partners and is working on getting more.

We wrap up with an outsider's explanation of all the Wordpress drama going on right now. 

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• StackWise: Coming soon...
• FigTree: Coming soon...

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00:01.77

Sean

What's up? I wanna go see.

00:00:03.30

Andrew

Miss you.

00:00:04.17

Sean

I wanna see you too. I wanna see you too.

00:00:05.85

Andrew

How are you?

00:00:06.85

Sean

Good. I feel like I saw you in person and then all of a sudden I was in Korea and Japan and then I...

00:00:13.69

Andrew

Yeah, shit. That was like not, not far apart, was it?

00:00:14.59

Sean

So... It wasn't... My last memory of the US was being at your place and drinking cocktails. So, yeah.

00:00:26.00

Andrew

That's a good night.

00:00:26.91

Sean

It was a good night. It was a good night. We played basketball.

00:00:30.25

Andrew

but that was Oh my God.

00:00:32.10

Sean

Play is a strong word. We attempted basketball.

00:00:35.25

Andrew

We threw basketballs around in the dark and like one or two of them went into a basket.

00:00:40.26

Sean

Yeah.

00:00:40.26

Andrew

Oh my God. You made me feel a lot better though. Cause I was like, I was like, Sean's going to smoke me. Like he's going to be so embarrassed at how bad at basketball I am and you are just as bad as I am.

00:00:51.77

Andrew

So I was like, okay, cool.

00:00:56.81

Sean

Yeah. I think about like how like my first million has that basketball camp. Just like there's no way all these people are that good at basketball.

00:01:08.14

Andrew

I love the image of like Sean Burry is just like, you know, making people like, uh, like bring over a step stool or something so he can dunk. He's like, but then he he goes on my first million and talks about it and he's like, yeah, it was awesome.

00:01:17.33

Sean

Yeah.

00:01:23.65

Sean

Yeah, I hit every sh- I hit- I banked every shot.

00:01:26.87

Andrew

No, I think like there are a lot of people in tech who are actually athletic because they played sports at some point in their life.

00:01:35.34

Sean

Yeah, probably.

00:01:35.70

Andrew

And then, and then there's the rest of us who got into tech because we were nerds and liked computers.

00:01:42.01

Sean

Yeah. Oh. Plus, I mean, you rock climb. Like, you're pretty athletic.

00:01:47.12

Andrew

I haven't been rock climbing in like two months.

00:01:47.27

Sean

You- you just suck the best at work.

00:01:51.37

Sean

Oh.

00:01:51.95

Andrew

I am actually going rock climbing outside in with some friends in two weeks, and I'm like, I should probably go climb a wall in the gym before I go, because I haven't climbed in like two or three months, so.

00:01:51.93

Sean

Okay.

00:01:55.81

Sean

Oh, cool.

00:02:00.09

Sean

Yeah.

00:02:02.82

Sean

and Get those forearm muscles pumping again.

00:02:05.99

Andrew

I gotta get my skin. My skin's gonna.

00:02:07.90

Sean

Right.

00:02:09.20

Andrew

like be shredded if I if I don't climb at all and then go try to climb outside so I feel like it takes me like two or three climbs before my skin starts to thicken up again

00:02:19.51

Sean

you know what you can do there's this guy on tiktok he pours i don't know what it is but something really sticky on his hands so he like is like a martial artist or something and it's like it's like epoxy or something and he basically just rubs it on his hand and or like sand papers down his hand basically and until it gets super super rough he just does it every single day on tiktok it's gross.

00:02:40.15

Sean

It's terrible. And you can like, oh, oh, it's, uh, it's like floor wax.

00:02:43.18

Andrew

And so then it like grows back thicker or something?

00:02:45.40

Sean

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like floor wax basically.

00:02:47.63

Andrew

Wait, wait, wait. We were talking about the wrong thing. How was your fucking trip?

00:02:48.09

Sean

he just like, and he also puts his hand next to the microphone and it's like the worst version of ASMR you've ever heard in your life. It's like worst at misophonia. Um.

00:02:57.48

Andrew

wait wait wait we're talking about the wrong thing how was your fucking trip

00:03:03.02

Sean

Well, much like listening to really shit awful man hands. It was. It was good to attempt a vacation.

00:03:17.29

Andrew

Oh, no.

00:03:18.12

Sean

It was not it is it is not what I would call a vacation.

00:03:18.68

Andrew

Oh, no, Sean.

00:03:23.61

Sean

It sucked. It sucked to be honest with you. It was like it.

00:03:26.96

Andrew

Brutal.

00:03:26.33

Sean

Yeah, yeah, y...

In this episode, Andrew and Sean got hit up by someone clearly using Podscan... again! They talk about it, then Andrew shares details about his recent trip to Mexico City, including highlights like a hot air balloon ride over the pyramids and an exciting Lucha Libre wrestling match.

Sean provides an update on Stackwise, discussing the data sources they've uncovered and the challenges of building a comprehensive database. Meanwhile, Andrew delves into the validation process for his latest SEO-focused startup idea, weighing the pros and cons of targeting different user segments.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• StackWise: Coming soon...
• FigTree: Coming soon...
• Podscan.fm: https://podscan.fm/

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:01.71

Sean

You know what we should rename our podcast tagline to?

00:05.21

Andrew

sandwich free.

00:06.47

Sean

No, not same.

00:09.97

Andrew

What is that?

00:10.48

Sean

No, the best case study that Podscan works.

00:15.95

Sean

We should be front page on Podscan FM.

00:18.73

Andrew

Genuinely, we should we should reach out to it's not Arjun. What's his name, Arran?

00:24.60

Sean

I have no idea. I don't know who makes Podscan. I just know about it.

00:27.08

Andrew

Oh, he's he's the dude who's the. ah ah Oh, fuck, I signed out of Twitter everywhere. so that I wouldn't get distracted.

00:36.50

Sean

Nice. I'll look it up.

00:37.86

Andrew

Arlen, something like that, he built he built like class dojo or he he built some like teaching software with his wife, sold it.

00:48.13

Sean

Arvid. Arvid.

00:48.97

Andrew

Arvid, Arvid call, that's his name.

00:49.57

Sean

Arvid.

00:51.16

Andrew

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, if avid has a and Arvid hot scan trigger, we'll find out.

00:56.81

Sean

Yeah, we'll find out. Arvid.

00:59.14

Andrew

So, hey Arvid.

00:59.99

Sean

Arvid call. Arvid call. Arvid call. Feedback panda. Arvid call.

01:03.88

Andrew

feed neck to end there, that's what it was.

01:06.67

Sean

Zero to sold, or we'd call. Alright, maybe we'll summon him for the next one.

01:12.62

Andrew

Yeah, that was wild. So, I get...

01:18.40

Andrew

I forget which podcast episodes we've published because I'm behind. So I like didn't even realize I'd published that episode.

01:24.75

Sean

Yeah.

01:24.82

Andrew

But we published a podcast episode where we were kind of like, I was hating on intro. You're pro intro. I was hating on intro.

01:32.17

Sean

Uh-huh.

01:33.57

Andrew

And then the CEO of intro tweeted at us this week and was like, here's why you're wrong and why intro is great.

01:39.63

Sean

not Really, it's not really a tweet. It was kind of an essay, actually. It was kind of like, yeah, yeah.

01:42.93

Andrew

Yeah.

01:44.32

Sean

But that's the second time someone famous on the internet has hit us up on Twitter because of that.

01:49.41

Andrew

I wish they would fucking promote our podcast when they treat at us.

01:56.45

Sean

I don't know.

01:56.90

Andrew

Instead of doing it so subtly.

01:57.13

Sean

I feel like this is a secret and feel like there's a little secret growth hack in there, you know?

02:01.18

Andrew

Yeah, but the girth hack only works if they like tell people about you.

02:06.72

Sean

No, no, no, no, no. I think that you can leverage it for, for more reach.

02:08.29

Andrew

To become biffles.

02:12.19

Sean

Cause if I, cause if I reply to his thing, I'm, you know, I feel like there's enough Twitter engagement there in in the, you know, get the algo going and, and, and you know, what is beef marketing?

02:22.26

Andrew

Is this like even grosser beef marketing?

02:27.16

Andrew

Beef marketing is when you start beef with somebody just for like the views and the clicks.

02:30.09

Sean

Oh, I see.

02:35.19

Andrew

So obnoxious.

02:36.88

Sean

I say yeah.

02:37.09

Andrew

yeah who's You know who's the king of beef marketing?

02:41.16

Sean

No. Who's the king of beef marketing?

02:42.94

Andrew

DHH. DHH is the

02:44.69

Sean

Oh.

02:45.98

Andrew

The king, the founder, the creator, the the god of beef marketing.

02:51.86

Sean

Right, right, right.

02:52.08

Andrew

That man can start beef with anybody.

02:54.78

Sean

right say well What's his full name? Just in case pods can.

02:56.89

Andrew

David Heinemeyer Hanson.

02:58.48

Sean

OK, cool, cool, cool. Basecamp, basecamp, basecamp. Maybe he uses Podscan too. Yeah. Yeah. Jason.

03:08.45

Sean

Yeah. I don't know. I think he has good ideas sometimes.

03:14.37

Andrew

What did you actually think of the intro guy's response to us? I can no longer pull up because I logged myself out of Twitter and don't want to log back in.

03:23.34

Sean

you know i think i appreciated the thoughtful response um um on it that's kind of

03:29.13

Andrew

You want to summarize real quick?

03:29.28

Sean

weirded I was weirded out yeah I was weird for what's worth a a little bit weird out kind of kind of weird ...