Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Episode Title: SARAH KROGER: Invitation to the Desert

Host: John Chisum

Episode Summary: In this deeply moving episode of Song Revolution, host John Chisum welcomes recording artist and worship leader Sarah Kroger for an honest conversation about faith, identity, songwriting, and spiritual wilderness. With a contemplative heart and a background shaped by Catholic tradition, Sarah shares how her latest album A New Reality was birthed in a season of silence and questioning.

Together, John and Sarah explore what it means to embrace mystery in the Christian life, the importance of living in the present moment, and how belovedness can become an anchor in seasons of darkness. They also discuss the role of co-writing in Sarah's journey, her musical influences, and the inspiration behind standout tracks like “Galaxies,” “Ghost,” and the beloved fan-favorite “Belovedness.”

Whether you’re navigating your own spiritual desert or longing to write from a deeper place, this episode offers a rich well of encouragement, authenticity, and insight.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How Sarah Kroger discovered her identity as a songwriter through co-writing
• Why gratitude and presence are key to thriving as an artist
• The inspiration and impact of her song “Belovedness”
• How contemplative authors like Henri Nouwen shaped her spiritual growth
• Why living in mystery may be the most authentic form of faith
• Real talk on spiritual silence, deconstruction, and creative perseverance

Key Moments: [01:09] – John welcomes listeners and introduces Sarah Kroger [03:34] – Sarah on gratitude, presence, and the joy of doing what she loves [05:56] – The early passion for music and discovering co-writing [10:24] – Influences from Nouwen, Merton, and Catholic mysticism [13:06] – John and Sarah discuss spiritual darkness and the mystery of God [17:03] – “I am with you always” as a theme through the desert [23:39] – Letting go of old faith feelings and embracing radical immediacy [29:01] – Practicing presence and the discipline of stillness [31:14] – The story behind “Belovedness” and Sarah’s devotional book [36:39] – Exploring “Galaxies” and the divine image within us [38:40] – Writing “Ghost” and choosing sacred, traditional language [40:17] – John reflects on Sarah’s album and the beauty of authenticity

Resources & Links:

Order Sarah Kroger’s devotional Belovedness: Overcoming Your Inner Critic https://sarahkroger.com

Join the NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Download the free 31-page guide https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Sign up for Free First Monday Songwriting Training https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

Explore NCS Community and membership options https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-community

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Episode Title: JOHN CHISUM: Killer Ideas and the Power of Journaling (Part 2)

Hosts: John Chisum & Bryant Urich

Episode Summary: In this follow-up to their previous conversation on song concepts, John Chisum and Bryant Urich dive deeper into the craft of generating unforgettable song ideas and titles. Building on the foundation laid in Part 1, they explore how journaling, active listening, and intentional creativity can transform your songwriting from empty to inspired.

John shares lessons learned from his mentors, including Bill and Gloria Gaither, and offers a candid story about missing a major publishing opportunity—proving the importance of doing your homework and understanding your audience. Bryant weighs in with examples from his work in Eauclaire and producing artists through NCS Collective, offering real-world insight on refining ideas and developing a unique artistic voice.

If you’ve ever struggled to turn inspiration into impact, this episode will help you understand why writing regularly, listening broadly, and collaborating openly are key to leveling up as a Christian songwriter.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why journaling is essential for developing your lyric writing voice
• How to find original titles through fragments and lyrical observation
• The value of co-writing and rewriting to create unique songs
• Why great songs start with specificity and universality
• How to listen eclectically and study modern songwriting
• Real examples from NCS Collective, Eauclaire, and more

Key Moments: [02:14] – Heaven on Earth Festival preview (Moab, Utah, July 16) [05:03] – Why unforgettable titles are the core of every great song [06:48] – Lessons from Bill Gaither on writing timeless lyrics [10:23] – How journaling sharpens your creative vocabulary [12:15] – John’s missed opportunity with Chicken Soup for the Soul [14:20] – The cost of not knowing your creative context [16:57] – How melody and rhyme stick with us from childhood [17:57] – Discovering your personal writing voice through journaling [21:34] – Getting inspired by song fragments and rhythmic feel [25:26] – How “Hold On Me” evolved from a beat to a finished track [27:13] – Why spiritual inspiration must still be crafted and refined [30:17] – Balancing nostalgia with modern sound in production [31:40] – The Spotify sweep: a tool to stay current with your genre [33:53] – Creativity is fueled by what you’re consuming [35:12] – How NCS Collective artists are succeeding with strong foundations

Resources & Links:

Register for Heaven on Earth Festival (July 16–19, Moab, UT) https://heavenonearthfestival.com

Listen to Eauclaire’s single “You Me the Kids” https://lnk.to/e-YouMetheKids

Check out “Hold On Me” by John Chisum feat. Phoebe Scott https://open.spotify.com/track/6KAJV2RHqfVcVcBN7heJIF?si=7bcc3352eb2e4064

Join the NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get your free guide https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Start your 14-day free trial with NCS Community https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-community

Explore Pro Song Mastery – Next group opens July 7 https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/psm

Have questions? Contact: [email protected]

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Host: John Chisum

Guest: Emily Hostetler (Founder of Heaven on Earth Festival)

Episode Title: EMILY HOSTETLER: Heaven On Earth

Episode Summary: In this episode of Song Revolution, host John Chisum is joined by special guest Emily Hostetler, founder of the Heaven on Earth music festival—a unique and immersive Christian music and wellness event held in stunning locations like Jackson Hole, Wyoming and Moab, Utah.

Emily shares her journey of discovering God's love throughout her life—from a childhood of spiritual curiosity in Boulder, Colorado to shaping a boutique worship experience that bridges the gap between churchgoers and seekers alike. Through storytelling, music, wellness, and natural beauty, Heaven on Earth offers a deeply personal space for rest, connection, and inspiration.

John and Emily also talk about the power of music in spiritual formation, the artists and vision behind the festival, and why gathering in community can be so transformative for both creatives and attendees.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How Emily’s unconventional spiritual journey led to founding Heaven on Earth
• Why the festival focuses on soulful connection over religious programming
• The unique role of nature, music, and storytelling in personal transformation
• How Christian and mainstream artists create a welcoming, restorative experience
• What to expect at this summer’s event in Moab, including glamping, hikes, cold plunges, and stargazing
• Why authenticity and vulnerability are essential for deeper faith conversations

Featured Festival Artists (2024):

• JOHNNYSWIM
• Amanda Cook
• Dave Barnes
• John McLaughlin
• Ashley Hess
• Eauclaire
• Madeline Rose
• The King Will Come

Key Moments:

[02:00] Emily’s spiritual foundation and discovering God's love in everyday moments

[06:30] The slow revelation of faith and growing in understanding over time

[08:45] Music’s emotional impact and favorite worship influences

[14:00] The thinkers, pastors, and voices who shaped Emily’s spiritual formation

[19:45] The origin of Heaven on Earth and its unique vision

[24:00] Creating a festival experience that refreshes the soul without being preachy

[27:00] Keeping the festival small and intimate to foster deep community

[28:00] A look at the daily schedule: morning workouts, live music, storytelling, and stargazing

[31:00] Recording a communal festival song and exploring creativity on-site

Resources & Links:

Learn more and register for the Heaven on Earth festival:

https://www.heavenonearthfestival.com

Get Involved with NCS:

NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get the free guide & grow your songwriting skills this year!

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Free First Monday Songwriting Training

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

NCS Community Membership – 52 weeks of access to the right music industry professionals. Join today! 

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/community/

NCS Collective:

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-collective/

Connect With Us:

NashvilleChristianSongwriters.com

Support the Show: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with your fellow songwriters!

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Episode Title: JOHN CHISUM: Killer Ideas and Unforgettable Titles

Hosts: John Chisum & Bryant Urich

Episode Summary: This week on Song Revolution, hosts John Chisum and Bryant Urich kick off June with an essential topic for every songwriter: how to develop killer ideas and unforgettable titles. Great songs start with strong hooks, but how do you find them? Where do the best ideas come from? And how do you know when a title is fresh, original, and worth writing?

John and Bryant share personal stories, songwriting insights, and even a few laughs as they explore how to capture inspiration, refine your ideas, and move beyond cliché Christian titles. Plus, they dive into the importance of pre-writing, journaling, and getting real feedback on your work.

If you’ve ever stared at a blank page wondering where to start—or felt stuck using the same tired phrases—this episode will equip you with practical tools to level up your songwriting from the very first line.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why titles and hooks are the foundation of great songs
• The power of keeping a title list and collecting song seeds
• How to avoid overused Christian phrases and write with originality
• The importance of pre-writing and journaling to develop your ideas
• Why rewriting and coaching are essential to growth
• Real-world tips from Bryant’s band Eauclaire and NCS artists

Key Moments: [02:00] – Launching June’s focus: killer ideas and unforgettable titles [02:30] – How Bryant’s new single You Me the Kids (YMtK) got its hook [06:00] – The challenge of writing original Christian lyrics [07:00] – Pat Barrett’s “Happily Hidden” and why unique hooks matter [09:30] – How to collect titles & why great writers are always listening [12:50] – What to do when your hook already exists in another song [15:00] – The myth of the fully formed download: why pre-writing matters [20:30] – Capturing your best ideas in moments of clarity and stillness [25:00] – Why writing 1,000 songs won’t help—unless you learn to write well [29:00] – Coaching, feedback, and why your favorite lyric may need work [31:30] – Journaling your ideas and identifying the emotional takeaway

Resources & Links: Listen to Eauclaire’s new single “You Me the Kids” 

https://lnk.to/e-YouMetheKids

Get Involved with NCS:

NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get the free guide & grow your songwriting skills this year!

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Free First Monday Songwriting Training

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

NCS Community Membership – 52 weeks of access to the right music industry professionals. Join today! 

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/community/

NCS Collective:

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-collective/

Connect With Us:

NashvilleChristianSongwriters.com

Support the Show: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with your fellow songwriters!

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Episode Title: CLARK BECKHAM: Micro Moments of Flow State

Hosts: John Chisum

Guest: Clark Beckham - American Idol Season 14 Runner-Up, Soul/R&B Artist, Educator, Host of Idol Breakdown

Episode Summary:

In this powerful episode, John sits down with acclaimed vocalist and musician Clark Beckham to unpack his journey from street performer to American Idol fame. Clark opens up about the highs and lows of the entertainment industry, how his faith shapes his artistry, and why he believes Jesus loves the complexity found in music—yes, even a flat five.

You'll also hear about Clark’s passion for music education, the emotional weight of critiquing performers on his Idol Breakdown series, and why it's perfectly normal to not feel obsessed with your art every single day.

Key Takeaways:

Clark’s honest experience as runner-up on American Idol

Why he sees music as a competition with yourself

The story behind “Jesus Loves the Flat Five”

How faith, love, and genuine care translate in the entertainment world

The difference between worship as a genre vs. worship as a personal practice

Why it’s okay not to feel creative every day—and why you should keep going anyway

The purpose behind Idol Breakdown and how he handles criticism responsibly

Demystifying music theory through Clark’s online courses

Quotable Moments: 

“Excuses are just permission slips for mediocrity.”

“God is the author of art. And when we express emotions through it, He’s in it.”

“You don’t follow your passion. You work really hard to get good, and passion follows.”

“Jesus loves complexity. He loves art. He loves the flat five.”

RESOURCES & LINKS

ClarkBeckham.com

Get Involved with NCS:

NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get the free guide & grow your songwriting skills this year!

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Free First Monday Songwriting Training

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

NCS Community Membership – 52 weeks of access to the right music industry professionals. Join today! 

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/community/

NCS Collective:

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-collective/

Connect With Us:

NashvilleChristianSongwriters.com

Support the Show: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with your fellow songwriters!

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Hosts: John Chisum & Bryant Urich

Episode Title: Writing in Your Best Genre

Episode Summary: In this episode of Song Revolution, hosts John Chisum and Bryant Urich continue their deep dive into genre, style, and artistic identity—with practical insights on how to discover and develop your best musical lane. From personal stories to real-world examples like Anya Lee, Clark Beckham, and the NCS Collective, John and Bryant unpack how to write with intention, identify your audience, and stay creatively inspired.

Whether you're new to songwriting or looking to sharpen your skills, this conversation will help you understand your artistic DNA, clarify your creative purpose, and embrace your unique sound and calling.

• What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
• Why genre and style matter more than ever in modern music
• How to write songs with clarity, context, and purpose
• The role of pre-writing in making your songs more impactful
• Tips for finding your “flow state” and discovering your lane
• Why writing in your natural genre can lead to greater creative freedom
• What to do when your favorite genre isn't "commercially popular"

Key Moments: [01:10] – Recapping May's focus on genre and style [03:00] – Musical influences and the evolution of artist identity [06:00] – Releasing experimental music & the freedom to try new things [09:10] – Why knowing your audience before you write is key [10:35] – Anya Lee’s fearless fusion of pop, gospel & testimony [12:00] – Micro-moments of flow: Clark Beckham's unique spin on worship [14:00] – Balancing creative authenticity and market relevance [20:00] – Finding your unique voice within broader genres [25:00] – Why pre-writing and research are essential to songwriting [29:30] – What to look for in a great lyric: hooks, form, and repetition [33:00] – Co-writing and the power of community and collaboration

Get Involved with NCS:

NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get the free guide & grow your songwriting skills this year!

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Free First Monday Songwriting Training

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

NCS Community Membership – 52 weeks of access to the right music industry professionals. Join today! 

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/community/

NCS Collective:

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-collective/

Connect With Us:

NashvilleChristianSongwriters.com

Support the Show: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with your fellow songwriters!

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Host: John Chisum

Guest: Claire Bacon (Project Manager, NCS)

Episode Title: CLAIRE BACON: Genre, Growth, and Grace

Episode Summary: In this episode of Song Revolution, host John Chisum introduces a new member of the NCS team: Claire Bacon, NCS Project Manager and music industry pro. With experience at Bethel Music, Pure Mosaic, and a degree from Middle Tennessee State University, Claire brings a unique blend of creative and business insight to Christian songwriting and artist development.

Claire shares how she went from singing Disney songs as a child to interning at Bethel just three weeks after giving her life to Christ, and how that faith journey has impacted her approach to A&R, publishing, and artist development. She also opens up about the challenges of giving professional song feedback, and how relational trust is key in the music industry.

This episode is packed with wisdom on genre vs. style, tips for emerging artists, and how to navigate your calling with both heart and strategy.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Claire’s journey from MTSU to Bethel Music and beyond
• How a personal faith encounter shaped her path in music
• The difference between publishing administration and creative publishing
• What it really takes to give—and receive—song feedback gracefully
• How to find your artistic identity in a genre-rich music world
• Practical advice for new songwriters discovering their sound

Key Moments: [03:13] – Claire’s early love for music and storytelling [06:53] – Why she chose MTSU and how it shaped her career [09:07] – Giving her life to Christ—and getting a Bethel internship weeks later [14:32] – Stepping into real-world A&R with Pure Mosaic [17:00] – Navigating hard conversations with artists [20:02] – Genre & style: working across musical diversity [23:41] – Nikki Lou’s powerful folky transformation story [25:51] – Genre vs. style: how to define and navigate both [31:08] – Helping writers who feel “undefined” or stuck [33:36] – Advice for songwriters: study the genre you want to write in [35:31] – The exciting future of NCS and the NCS Collective

Get Involved with NCS:

NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get the free guide & grow your songwriting skills this year!

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Free First Monday Songwriting Training

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

NCS Community Membership – 52 weeks of access to the right music industry professionals. Join today! 

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/community/

NCS Collective:

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-collective/

Connect With Us:

NashvilleChristianSongwriters.com

Support the Show: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with your fellow songwriters!

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Hosts: John Chisum & Bryant Urich

Episode Title: The Power of Knowing Styles & Genres

Episode Summary: In this episode of Song Revolution, hosts John Chisum and Bryant Urich dive deep into one of the most important (and often confusing) parts of being a songwriter or artist: understanding your genre and style. This discussion is packed with practical insights for anyone who has ever wondered, "What kind of music do I actually make?"

Using real examples from the NCS Collective—including music from artists like Nikki Lou, Howard Gripp, Eauclaire, and Coby James—John and Bryant explore how genre and style influence songwriting, production, and artist development. Plus, they offer guidance for identifying your unique artistic voice, no matter where you are in your journey.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The difference between genre and style—and why it matters
• How artists like Nikki Lou and Eau Claire found their signature sound
• Why knowing your favorite music is a powerful clue to your own style
• How the NCS Collective is empowering real people to make real music
• Tips for choosing the right producer or direction for your songs
• The importance of letting the song guide the production

Key Moments: [03:00] – Christian music's wide range: from worship to folk to hip-hop [07:57] – The story behind launching the NCS Collective [13:00] – Producing Howard Gripp’s debut rock/CCM music [15:25] – How Nikki Lou’s grief journey birthed powerful bluegrass/folk songs [23:00] – A listen to Kobe James’ modern pop worship track Mighty God [26:40] – Bryant shares Eauclaire’s evolving sound: cinematic, folk, indie rock [34:00] – Highlighting Collective artists: Jay Davids, Bonnie Barbay, Ezra Worship, Anya Lee [35:30] – How to find your style: Let the song—and your heart—lead

Featured Music in this Episode:

• Million Tears and Valley of Shadow and Light by Nikki Lou
• Mighty God by Coby James
• Grow and Faith Is the Bird by Eauclaire

Get Involved with NCS:

NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get the free guide & grow your songwriting skills this year!

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Free First Monday Songwriting Training

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

NCS Community Membership – 52 weeks of access to the right music industry professionals. Join today! 

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/community/

NCS Collective:

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-collective/

Connect With Us:

NashvilleChristianSongwriters.com

Support the Show: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with your fellow songwriters!

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Host: John Chisum

Guest: Adrian Thompson (Head of A&R, Bethel Music)

Episode Title: Adrian Thompson: Bethel Exec on Miracles and Music

Episode Summary: In this thought-provoking episode of Song Revolution, host John Chisum sits down with Adrian Thompson, the Head of A&R at Bethel Music and former VP of A&R at Integrity Music. They discuss the impact of Bethel Music on modern worship, the controversy surrounding charismatic expressions of faith, and the process of developing and signing artists at Bethel.

Adrian shares insights into how Bethel identifies new talent, the songwriting process behind their music, and the biblical foundation of their songs. He also opens up about his own spiritual journey, moving from a Presbyterian background to encountering the Holy Spirit, and how that experience continues to shape his work in music ministry today.

If you've ever wondered how worship music is shaped, how A&R works at a major worship label, or why some churches criticize charismatic worship, this episode is for you!

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How Bethel Music discerns and develops new artists
• The role of A&R in shaping worship music for the global church
• Addressing the controversies surrounding Bethel’s theology & worship style
• Why Bethel cross-references song lyrics with Scripture before release
• The importance of community, mentorship, and authenticity in worship music
• How songs go from demo to finished album at Bethel

Key Moments: [02:26] – Adrian Thompson’s journey: From Presbyterian roots to charismatic faith [05:54] – Addressing the controversy around Bethel & charismatic worship [10:15] – Miracles, gold dust, and why supernatural experiences divide the church [17:06] – How Bethel Music ensures theological soundness in worship songs [23:17] – The role of A&R in selecting and refining worship songs [27:45] – What it takes to become a Bethel Music artist [31:29] – The UK worship movement & its influence on global worship [36:12] – Advice for songwriters who feel called to write for the church

Resources & Links: Listen to Bethel Music’s latest releases

https://bethelmusic.com/

Follow Bethel Music on Instagram – @bethelmusic

Get Involved with NCS:

NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get the free guide & grow your songwriting skills this year!

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Free First Monday Songwriting Training

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

NCS Community Membership – 52 weeks of access to the right music industry professionals. Join today! 

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/community/

NCS Collective:

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-collective/

Connect With Us:

www.NashvilleChristianSongwriters.com

Support the Show: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with your fellow songwriters!

Song Revolution Podcast – Season 3

Hosts: John Chisum & Bryant Urich

Episode Title: Building Your Creative Team

Episode Summary: In this episode of Song Revolution, hosts John Chisum and Bryant Urich explore one of the most important factors in a songwriter’s success—building a strong creative team. While many songwriters start out alone, no artist truly succeeds in isolation. It takes producers, mentors, collaborators, and a solid support network to bring music to life and get it heard.

John and Bryant break down the essential roles in a songwriter's journey—from crafting a great song to recording, production, marketing, and promotion. They also share real-life success stories from NCS artists who went from dreaming about music to making an impact with their songs.

If you’re a songwriter who feels stuck doing everything alone, this episode will show you how to build a team and move forward with confidence!

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why every songwriter needs a team to succeed
• How to find producers, co-writers, and collaborators
• The essential roles in the music-making process—from idea to release
• The difference between DIY production and professional studio recordings
• How marketing and social media can make or break your song’s success
• Real-life examples of NCS artists thriving with the right team

Key Moments: [03:20] – Why community is the key to success in music

[06:33] – Breaking down the songwriting and production process [10:26] – The roles of producers, engineers, and session musicians [15:39] – The power of marketing and why artists must promote themselves [18:42] – Social media tips for songwriters and independent artists [24:16] – How a strong vision helps attract the right team [30:00] – How NCS can help you connect with the right people

Get Involved with NCS:

NCS 2025 Songwriting Challenge – Get the free guide & grow your songwriting skills this year!

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/challenge2025

Free First Monday Songwriting Training

https://courses.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/training

NCS Community Membership – 52 weeks of access to the right music industry professionals. Join today! 

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/community/

NCS Collective:

https://www.nashvillechristiansongwriters.com/ncs-collective/

Connect With Us:

NashvilleChristianSongwriters.com

Support the Show: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and share it with your fellow songwriters!