Spirit of the Deal

Best selling author and book agent Bill Gladstone has been in the publishing industry for over thirty years. In that time, he has represented some of the biggest names in the business and has helped to shape the careers of many successful authors. Gladstone is a man who knows the ins and outs of the publishing world, and he is someone who can be trusted to get the best deal for his clients.

Find out more about Bill: https://waterside.com/

Intro Guy 0:00 Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you've questioned so much more than those around you. You've even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general you're so limited thought process Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can't quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the question you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world the people in it? Most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don't even have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question some time for another hit of spiritual with your host Brandon Handley. Let's get right into today's episode.

Brandon Handley 0:42 Hey, the spiritual tip I'm on today with our special guest William Gladstone and he is the co author of the books tapping the source, the golden golden mic or the golden motorcycle gang and author of the international best selling novel The 12. Glassnote is considered an international expert on indigenous cultures and the meaning of 2012. He is also co producer of the highly acclaimed film tapping the source as a literary agent Mr. Gladstone has worked with some of the most respected and influential authors of our time, including Eckhart Tolle, Deepak Chopra, Neale Donald Walsch and Tom Hartman. And last but not least, and of course, not not even probably the tip of the iceberg. But Master Shaw, who I recently interviewed, and that's how I found out about, you know, the guy behind the scenes. William Bill Gladstone. Thanks for being on today.

Bill Gladstone 1:36 It's a pleasure. And yeah, I'm glad that you had the opportunity to interview Dr. Shah master shots. He's kind of a hidden secret right now. He's not really hidden. But you know, I've represented you know, Neale Donald Walsch deals, Deepak Chopra, Marianne Williamson, Marie Kondo. And there's a level that they have in terms of their visibility that Dr. Shah does not. And it's kind of ironic, because Dr. Shah, in some ways, is a more important spiritual teacher, what he's able to do. And I ended up I was so intrigued and worked with him now for about 15 years that I actually investigated and wrote this book, Miracle soul healer exploring a mystery. And it really is a mystery. Not only does he have the ability to heal people, but he's been able to train other people to heal people. And that, to me is like mind boggling. How does that happen? So, you know, in the 10 years since I originally wrote miracle soul healer, I've learned a lot more about Master shots. So we're re releasing the book come out in a couple of weeks, and that we've changed from exploring a mystery to documenting a legend because it's my belief that he's going to become a legend just in the way that Edgar Casey is a legend, legendary healer. What Dr. Shah has been able to do is extraordinary. And what's almost more extraordinary is that he keeps reinventing himself. It's like he started off, you know, as a as an acupuncturist. I mean, he's got degrees in medical, traditional medicine, but also Chi Gong and Tai Chi and acupuncture and herbal medicine. So he's always he's just as a very exploratory nature. He never satisfied even though he's he's always wanting to learn and develop himself. He's just a very creative human being an intelligent human being. So a few years ago, right at the beginning, when I agented, his first big best seller, he already had bestsellers before I started agent again, but the first one I did was miracle soul healer, and he included a calligraphy and you can see behind me I have a calligraphy now I was gifted one by one, which is wonderful. But at the time, it was like, Oh, now he's really gone too far. Now he's saying that this calligraphy, this piece of art, this piece of paper has healing properties. I said, No way. Anyway, you know, I got up on stage. I remember I was at a one on one author, one of one of that with Rick Fishman, who he actually introduced me to Dr. chatons, you know, when the book first came out at least 10 years ago, and, you know, I presented the book and, you know, I was a little bit, you know, I don't really know if this drawing you know, is, but the rest of it, you know, I've checked out, you know, it's really interesting. And I remember when I got off the stage, someone came up to me because we had given out some copies. And I said, I'm a something impact. And I opened the book to the page, and the energy from this is just incredible. Well, you know, I guess maybe there's something to it because I thought it was pretty far out there. But and that was really, when that happened. That's when I started, you know, because I have degrees from Harvard. You know, I published articles and, you know, scientific and my father was a chemist before he became a book publisher. So grounded skepticism, healthy skepticism. And so, but now I was intrigued. So that's when I did the original interviews and I interviewed over 100 people when I wrote miracle so healer, and there's absolutely no way you would have so much positive results, just from the placebo effect, and certainly the placebo effect. And yeah, there's something to that, but there's something actually going on. So that's why I've continued to be in contact with with Master Shah. Like, him, I also like to keep exploring and growing. So I am finally realized, even though you know, he gifted me a calligraphy, I didn't really pay much attention to it. But then recently, I came up with the idea that we should do these NF T's non fungible tokens, we should sure, you know, do one that was, you know, going to give financial abundance to people because in addition to healing, there's other blessings that are communicated through the calligraphies. And I was skeptical, but it's like, you know, it's not going to hurt anybody, if they believe it, and it works for them. Great. I'm not saying it's gonna work, but just as a collectible, because the art itself has value. So we did choose 5000 of these prints, electric prints, and we sold all that $2,000 Each generating $10 million. So that got even more of my attention.

It's like, whoa, and as those you know, I think they sold like to 1500 people, because a lot of people bought two or three. Well, there were at least 600 people who like, wrote in within weeks of getting this calligraphy, my financial world has been, you know, like, evolving. And I'm like, Okay, if that's happening, I guess it's time I still don't understand exactly how it happens. But then, you know, so I'm like, Okay, this is really amazing. I get a call from Esther, she says, my new thing is, song, I have this special dowel song. I'm gonna give all my healings now through the song. And I'm like, okay, and I want you to organize the concerts. And I said, What master shot. I'm a literary agent. I don't really understand the world of music. You gotta give me a you know, we just started all these, because now we're also some of the original calligraphies, I sold one for a million dollars, I mean, big business. I said, Let me focus on these things that I understand. And I'm already doing. And he said, well, but heaven says, You can do this, you know, everybody. And I said, Well, I used to think that was just sort of like a joke. But when he says, heaven says, I know everybody, it means I will know everybody, if I don't know, I'm now the right person. For sure, he's kind of on a spiritual mission. And I mean, this is true. I mean, I don't believe it myself. But two days after he asked me to represent and find a record label for him, and I told him, Look, give me six months, I've got to focus on all these other things. My daughter who's a ghostwriter called me with a project. And it was a project related to a marketing expert, actually two marketing experts that wanted to use her to write a book. But she wanted me to something the agent to negotiate the terms and do what I do. So I got on the phone, and I met this extraordinary author who has a marketing company. Well, it turns out, she also has a record company. And it turns out that she's into, I don't even know what you call it, this non traditional music, World Music, whatever. And I said, Well, you know, I've got this other claim, why don't you go and listen to this music and tell me what you think. She writes back the next day is the most incredible music. I never had anybody like this, we want to, we want to, you know, do everything we will do the concerts. And actually the album for that is coming out in about two weeks. So now, it's not just the calligraphy it's not just the healing. It's not just the teaching. It's also music concerts. So who knows what Master shows going to do next. But I am very intrigued with all this going on. That's why I decided to go back and just update the book a little bit. Because there's no longer exploring a mystery. It's documenting a legend. I've never met a human being who's been able to pivot and be successful in so many different areas. I mean, he's like, you know, he's now a concert performer. He's mastered calligrapher. He's a Master Healer. And what actually is my greatest point of contact with him is we've been doing together for almost a year now, what he calls the power and wisdom of Dougie Jain, which is the teachings of Lauzun dowdy Jing is

a book that was written over 2500 years ago, only has 82 chapters Laos, who is considered the foremost promoter, and expert on Tao, he introduced the concept of doubt to the world. And I studied philosophy at Yale. And I've always been intrigued by the world of ideas. So MasterChef asked me to host this show. And the main benefit I get is, he's taking at least an hour, sometimes two or three hours for each chapter. So it's probably going to take us two years to go through this. And it's totally free. I mean, I'm just doing it because I'm learning so much. And basically what you're learning is the way of the doubt nature's way. And the surface. That seems very simple. But these lessons, the more you hear them, and the more you truly understand them, the more profound they become. And you know, I've worked with all these great spiritual visionaries Marianne Williamson, Deepak Chopra, as I said, before, Neale Donald Walsch, and you know, they're great. But I have to say, if you want to go back to first principles, I'm becoming convinced that the Dow, the understanding of what the Dow means, particularly the way Dr. Shah interprets it, is kind of the fundamental face of all knowledge, it's really been intrigued. And so I've been learning that. So I'm very grateful to Master Chef for bringing all this to the world. And I'm also totally alive. But what's also was remarkable is, but 15 years ago, we did this film, tapping the source, and we interviewed over 100, major celebrities, authors, business leaders, billionaires. And what we learned was that the source of happiness for all of these people was very basic, it was finding a way to express gratitude every day, and finding a way to be of service to others. Well, then, push forward 10 years later, I'm studying, you know, Lao Tzu and the Tao. And what is the fundamental message from Master Sha? One, in his case, it's a little bit different. You start with forgiveness, so that my people didn't feel the need to ask for forgiveness. But Master Sha, you asked for forgiveness, then the next few things, express gratitude and be of service, my purpose of life is to serve. That's what Master Schultz presents. So I found that, wow, what I've been doing, you know, totally in what I would call the secular world, you know, just mainstream world is now sort of linking up with with Master Sha, which is admittedly, an esoteric traditions. I mean, not everyone is going to resonate, you know, with the Chinese language and the Chinese philosophy, but they really are one. And so I've really been having a lot of fun with this. And we're combining, we're starting to do these tapping the source summits. And so at the last one, we had Deepak and my good friend and client, Dr. Ervin Laszlo with Master Sha, and looking at these big questions, you know, where do we come from? Where are we going? Why are we here? What is the nature of reality? What is the nature of our universe, and it's really interesting as we as we go forward, because there is a common thread, and there is a way of raising the awareness of the average person, because it may not seem like it's such a big deal, but it's actually a very big deal. If the majority of people on our planet had a greater sense of who they really are, not just in terms of their personalities, not just in terms of their family backgrounds, but who they really are, as, for lack of a better word, spiritual beings, universal souls. When I was a bit,

Brandon Handley 13:51 let me jump in here real quick. So, you know, one of the things I enjoyed in researching you was listening to an interview that you did with Jack Canfield, maybe 10 years ago, maybe 11 years ago, we talked about and just like you talked about here, you came from like a chemist, your father's a chemist, book publisher, going into this industry for yourself where even he'd mentioned to you I believe, you know, don't be a writer there's no money being a writer. And you know, you're and I can hear you I'm in the business world as well. And I can hear you rattling off numbers like you're a very your business acumen. You know, you're very focused on the business. Right. But you also you also co authored another book, is it tapping this horses? Welcome. Have it right in front of me? Yeah.

Bill Gladstone 14:37 It was tapping the source. I should have brought him up, you know, show him to you.

Brandon Handley 14:42 I didn't give you I didn't give you any prep on this. So

Bill Gladstone 14:45 yeah, tapping the source which was Reus issued as a complete Master Key System. Tapping the source was brought to me by another one of my clients because he had become a big fan of Charles canal, Charles canals Master Key System. There's so many rumors about it, Bill Gates uses it Elon Musk, like circulated in Silicon Valley. But tapping the source was really a modern, updated version of The Master Key System. And Charles canal was the first writer who combined Eastern ideas with Western ideas. Napoleon Hill gave an owl credit for all of his work with thinking grow rich. And so Nell really was the source of information for what we now call the Human Development movement, which has been going on for about 100 years.

Brandon Handley 15:38 So, and that wasn't until that was, like 1012 years ago that you tapped into that book. Were you aware of him before that?

Bill Gladstone 15:47 Not at all, I had never even heard of Charles now. Your mind

Brandon Handley 15:50 blown, like what it sounded like? You were just like, wow, what is this material and this is so amazing. Well,

Bill Gladstone 15:55 not on this. And I have to be honest, I remember when I was very young, because, you know, it was in publishing already, I was living in New York, and I got invited to something called dare to be great. And it was, as far as I was concerned, a whole lot of hocus pocus and hype. And, you know, manifest this and envision that, you know, I just thought it was a lot of people trying to steal your money. So I've been very skeptical of this whole self help genre. Even though my father's article publishing was one of the leading publishers in self help. He also was very skeptical. So I was not that open when unkind. So Oh, I got this book, Master Key System and its depth. And the same thing, frankly, with the secret. And you know, even though a lot of my friends, like they're oversimplifying, and it's not that simple. But then when I read Charlson out, which was not as simple as a secret secret, actually had made reference to Charlson out, but I wasn't aware of who he was at the time. But the secret over simplified, Charles tau is very rigorous. That's why we had to write the book, it was 26 weeks to go through the course, in those days, you have to understand this 100 years ago, you had to pay a dime for each. So it was $2.60, which is probably like $2,000 today, but you had to complete each each lesson. And then you get the next week's lesson. And each lesson required an hour of meditation. And it was very complicated. But when I finally read the material, I understand why Napoleon Hill and others had gravitated to Charlson else, he really had found some principles. And, you know, they've been misrepresented too often. For example, the law of attraction, according to Charles now, is really the law of love. And it simply means if you're emanating energy of love, you're going to draw energy of love back doesn't mean you're going to get a one to one correspondence, you send out energy of love to someone who's, you know, in a bad mood, and he, they're not going to send you back love, they may send you back, but you know, something you don't want. But over time, if you if you if you are able to generate energetic fields of positive energy, positive energy will be drawn to you. And this is very interesting. Turning back to the master shot, because now I'm beginning to understand what happens with these calligraphies. He puts so much love into these calligraphies. It's creating a field. And so it's not Hocus Pocus, there's actually reality to what is going on here. But yes, I have a very rounded and I think my mother, my mother was very inspiration. He wanted to save the world, she really had a big heart, my father wanted to have fun, and he wanted to win. So he came up with all these ideas. And he made a lot of money doing things that nobody else had ever done in book publishing. And he had a lot of fun doing it. And he never took any of it too seriously, in terms of the actual content of the books. So I kind of have this combination. I like to have fun, and I like to make money. It's fun. And I've made a lot of money. I mean, it's really, if you look at everything we've done, it's in the billions of dollars, not that I've personally made but that I've generated for the book publishing industry, and a lot of it for my authors and a lot of it for myself and my company. So I even wrote a book called be the deal that I wrote in seven days because I also launched the very first print on demand book company, and we needed proof of concept. So the first print on demand book ever written by a solo author and have to say that because the same day that I finished my manuscript, we got hold of the Star Report The thing about Clinton at the time and the sex scandal with money. So that was actually the very first print on demand book. Mine was the first solo authored book, and we actually got an investment of $28 million from Barnes and Noble based on we now had proof of concept. So yes, I I have this wonderful combination of, from my mother, I get this sense of, you know, purpose and wanting to help others. And then for my dad, I get this feeling of, hey, let's have fun. And let's see how much money we can make and what we can do. And I think that they go together. Well, I think that when, you know, like, we changed our mission statement about 20 years ago to waterside productions exists to help authors and publishers create and distribute books that will make a better world. So that's really what our focus has been. And if you focus on creating a better world, and having fun, you're probably want to make a lot of money. If you're if you're successful in doing that.

Brandon Handley 20:40 You know, absolutely. How could you not right. And, and I think that there are ways that you could not obviously, but if you take a look at to see, you know, to it's funny that you did that project with Charles Sinawe, I did a project myself on that on that same book, right? I did, I created an audio, where I put like, isochronic tones and like bio rhythms and like the sounds of nature, all behind the reading of the book, so that, you know, somebody could listen to it in that same way, right? And just kind of get the content and I released it in the same way that he released it, like in a weekly format, right? Because the way that it was originally meant to be consumed was just like our online courses today. Right? It's just, that's what he was doing back then. So I thought that that was pretty interesting. But you know, what you're doing whether or not you know it, or knew it at the time was you were being you were already being of service. And I think that I think that um, you know, Wallace D wattles also talks about this, which is not the guy, but Napoleon Hill talks about how if you're if you're doing these whether or not you know, you're using the law of attraction, like your friends, Jack Canfield, and all these other people are gonna say, you're, you're, you're using it, right? So you're being of service, you're helping people get access to some of these books, you may not already believe half of the stuff that you're seeing in here, like, whatever. And you brought up something really, really, really important, in my opinion, is you went to this, you went to this seminar, called dare to be great. And you're like, are these guys selling snake oil? Right, is basically what you're saying. But here you are selling calligraphy? Yeah, right. What has changed, I think inherently and you because again, the deck the Jack Canfield audio, you talked about you said you weren't that into personal development at that time, and in this space so much. But seems though, over these past 10 years, maybe maybe maybe longer, that you've kind of fell into the space, and you're believing more like you're talking about emanating this love, and it's gonna come

Bill Gladstone 22:41 back, basically, it's seeing the results, seeing that it works. I mean, when I went to that dare to be great seminar, I mean, the guys, I mean, they look like used car salesmen, I just didn't get a good vibe from them. And I don't know, whatever happened with that organization, you know, I didn't list but you know, it's kind of like any of these. And, you know, Scientology, I think is the same. I mean, I hesitate, because you got to watch out for these organizations that have come after negatives. But sure, they're really self based organizations, they're not real, that they claim to be of service to others. But if you go behind the scenes, you find out that's not really the case. So you do have to be careful. And exercise caution. Butcher, when you do find an organization like Master Chavez, and I've done all the research, I mean, I've met all the people. That's why I wrote the book. I mean, it's really selfless. I mean, he's not, he doesn't need money, he doesn't care about money for himself, yes, his organization to grow, and he does care about having the biggest impact. Well, you know, what is money? Money is energy. If you don't have it, you're not gonna grow. But yes, it's more seeing the results. I mean, I've personally spoken and met with dozens, really hundreds of people whose lives have been significantly improved, because of either the calligraphies, or the teachings of master shots. So you know, I've seen the results. And you know, he's not a perfect human being I'm sure he's had his failures. And, you know, he's very cautious to say, I'm not guaranteeing anything for everybody. And there's one thing about Dr. Shah that, you know, I'm, I was super skeptical of because it was too easy. explanation why things wouldn't work, which is, in the end, it's all about karma. And if you have bad karma, I can't help you. I mean, I can't help you. But I can totally help you because you we each have our karma and our path. And there is truth to that. But I was skeptical because well, that's too easy. If it doesn't work. It's all on the patient. So, you know, but then, as I've dealt more and more master shot, I've seen that he is authentic and that his system And does work. And I'm still on the fence. I just had this conversation with master shot a few days ago about the nature of karma because as I become more immersed in, in, in Lao Tzu and the DAT karma exists according to master shot at the level of the human experience of the, the world of things, we have the world of nothingness in the world of things. And I've always been sort of more drawn philosophically to the world of nothing is the world that includes nothing is and the world of things. And in the world of nothing is obviously there's no karma. And in terms of my personal experience with karma, I have a very different view. I don't actually believe there's time or space. In the real universe, the universe we experience obviously has time and space. So in that limited universe, which is really a universe of illusion, yes, there's karma. But ultimately, there's not even that there's there's there's a universal, energetic connection, to all of existence. And at that very, very deep level. There's, there is no karma there is no, there is no judgment of any kind. This is what allows and teaches the doubt, which is the source of the source. And we can't even I mean, like we think of the the source. And it allows you even said, the Dow that I described in my teachings is not the real doubt. And it's the same thing. We as human beings can't even contemplate what the true essence of all existence is. It's beyond comprehension. But we have good approximations. And we can learn a lot by aspiring to be aligned with the nature of existence itself. And that's really all that all the spiritual teachers are saying, when you say Be of service will be of service to whom? Well, you're really ultimately being of service to the energy of existence itself. And the energy of existence is magnificent. It's everything, even what we consider evil, is it still energy, and all existences is a play of energy. And within each realm, there is good and evil. And it's very important to sort of raise our vibration so that we experienced the highest possible reality we can. But ultimately,

it's all play the way I explain it to people. If you have kids, you probably have gone to some little league games, and Little League is great right now their Little League World Series, I actually prefer watching that over major league baseball. Anyway, you see these kids, and you know, they're playing, and they're playing their hearts out. And during the game, nothing matters except the game, and you play by the rules of the game. But guess what it says the game is over. It was just a little league game, it really didn't matter at all? Well, at a very big level. That's our own experience as human beings, we're playing a game, and it matters, it matters a lot. You know, whether you are treating people well, whether you have children, your grandchildren, you have someone that you love that loves you, all those things are really important. But when you leave this planet, when you leave your human form, that was nice, but it represented less than less than a finger of your existence. So you know, if you can start having that perspective, and I think even somebody like Putin would think twice about murdering all the people that he's murdering, I mean, it's going to catch up in a different universe, perhaps. But you know, if we could combine this larger sense of how we are all individual, that we're also all one, we're all interconnected, we're all part of the same energy flow. I think we we'd have a much better world.

Brandon Handley 28:48 Like, did you see yourself like in this space? 1015 years ago? Could you imagine yourself talking like this?

Bill Gladstone 28:57 I don't know, if I didn't give it any thought one way or the other. It doesn't surprise me. I mean, cuz I've always had, as I said, because of my mother. I always had this interest in sort of the non material. Also, one of the reasons, you know, I probably evolved this way. And I covered this a little bit in the film, tapping the sources. When I was 15, I had a near death experience. And I was I was gone. I mean, it was an interesting experience. But I was I was on my way to wherever it is, you know, I was headed, and it wasn't on this planet. And I was not forced to leave. I was, you know, sort of given a choice. And, frankly, I mean, I'll tell the story because it's kind of interesting. So I was 15 years old, and I had the flu. And I had a really bad case of the flu kind of thing. COVID It wasn't good. And those days we actually had a family physician, and he would make house calls. But he said it was February and I was living in Westchester County and it was kind of snowy and you know traveled was not that easy. And he said, Look, I'm really busy. I can't make house calls. But you know, I've got other patients who've come down with this flu. I've got something that I think will help if you can bring Bill in. So my mom drove me over. And, you know, the doctor looked at me said, Yep, I think you've got the symptoms here. I'm gonna give you the shot. This should work. He gave me the shot. He said, I'll be right back in a minute. And next thing, my memories, I'm gone. I'm like in bliss. And I'm, my bliss is interrupted, because I hear this loud voice. And I said, Oh, what's that lead voice? Oh, that man. That man's very upset. Oh, that man's wearing a white coat. Oh, that man must be a doctor. Why is he upset? Oh, he's upset because that body on the floor is not responding. Oh, that's my body, I better get back into that body. So the doctor won't be upset. But there was no idea that I better get back in my body because I'm going to be dead. It didn't occur to me. And it didn't matter to me. And having had that experience, which at the time was not that common and very little was known about near death experiences. Moody had not even written his first book on afterlife. So I was actually discouraged mostly by my father, but also even by my mother, don't talk about this. Nobody wants to hear you're valedictorian of your school. Everybody thinks, you know, you do all the sports your captain, a couple of sports team, this isn't gonna get you very far talking about this kind of stuff. Just stick stick to your normal life. It's an interesting experience you had my dad is the chemists was, Oh, you didn't have any oxygen. It was all hallucination. You know, don't take any of it too seriously. Well, it took me about 20 years when I started uncovering that other people had had similar experiences that I realized, no, my dad was wrong. In this case, my experience was authentic. And so because of that experience, I've always been kind of aware that there's a lot more going on here than just what meets the eye.

Brandon Handley 32:01 I got it. What do you mean? And so how do you feel like you became this lightning rod or catalyst for so many of these prominent authors? Like how did you find yourself in that space? Well, it's very hidden, because

Bill Gladstone 32:15 I certainly didn't set out to do this. I was the leading agent in the world for books about technology. We, even before we did that the dummies series, we had had 500 best selling books, we represented over 25% of all the best sellers at the time when computers first evolved. And that happened really, through a relationship I had with Andy Kay, the founder of nonlinear systems, which became K Pro computer. So I was given access to all these computer documentation writers, so we started representing them. And overnight, we became the leading source of books about technology. But like many things, we did the very first books on the internet and everything on the supercomputers, we created the very source of our demise. Because the internet made it unnecessary to buy a book. I mean, not for everybody, but we used to sell, oh, I don't know, in a single year, 5 million copies of Windows for Dummies, for example. Now we still sell it but you know, I think it's down to like 100 200,000 copies, which is not insignificant, but compared to 5 million that so when you know in our business was was booming, and you know, we were doing great business, but then when the internet crashed and the need for these books also fade because there wasn't as much innovation. I mean, there's you know, like, Okay, now with that Twitter and me, there's still things happening. But compared to the boom of the late 80s, early 90s, where you had a new computer, a new software program, and these things, you know, just took the world by storm, you actually had more space in a Barnes and Noble dedicated to computer books than to fiction. You had an entire wall, it looks anyway. So we have this great success. And then it started to go down. And I had one call when the very first books I'd ever aged. It was the Sphinx in the rainbow by David Lai. And David was an extraordinary human being he just passed recently in his 90s. And I actually signed the book to publish it when I was editor in chief for Harcourt Brace Yovanovitch here in San Diego, but I left her court to create waterside productions. And they canceled the book because they have an editor who even understood the book because this book was way ahead of its time. It was explaining the nature of the ability to predict the future based on hologram sick concept of the universe. And also why sometimes a prediction would be wrong. Anyway, it was it was too sophisticated for anyone left it hardcore. So I got a call from Dave and he says what do I do and I say oh Don't worry, I know people in New York and other places. I'll I'll do some aging on the side because I actually sit at Waterside productions to be a film company, not a literary agency. So that was really what got me into the agent in the first place. And I did sell that book whose first book I ever sold. I actually sold it Shambala, which, interesting. They then that book went out of print 20 years later, and David revised the book and we sold it to enter tradition. So it's still in print with a new title and arrow through time. But the reason I mentioned this is okay, so after David, I got involved with all the computers, I turned down people, including Tony Robbins, because too much time to deal with them compared to what I could do. I could sell 10 books on computers, one of which would sell at least a million copies in a day. And you know, Tony, I love Tony and we met. But you know, he needed a lot of hand holding that time and guidance. And I was like, Tony, just not really worth my time. So

yeah, I don't regret it, you know, would have been worth my time as it turned out, but you know, who could have predicted it? In any event? Yeah, I've turned that I've made bigger mistakes. I turned down Jeff Bezos, I could have been one of the seed investors of Amazon, back down because the business plan didn't make any sense to me. So I've made my mistakes. I don't know what's interesting. But back to David Loy. So David calls me up. And it's just the right time. He says, I've got this friend. His name is Dr. Ervin Laszlo and he's written about 30 books, but none of them have sold more than 5000 copies. And I think you'd really enjoy working with him and he needs a good agent. So that's how I got connected with Irving. And Ervin was already at that time considered the leading systems theorist in the world, he had studied Alfred North Whitehead, and he really had, you know, he was just amazing. He had created this organization called the club of Budapest because he was also a naturally gifted concert pianist. He was a member of the Club of Rome. And the Club of Rome said nobody's paying attention, because they, this is back in 1972, the limits of growth really was the precursor to warnings about global warming, and everything else. But nobody was paying attention. So they said, you know, they seem to pay attention to celebrities, you're kind of a celebrity, you know, create a writers and poets organization. And he did and you had people like, yo, yo, LA and Peter Gabriel, and the Dalai Lama, anyways, credible organization. So I met with our event, and we became good friends, and I was able to, it actually was a lot of work more work than probably any book I've been involved with he because he was a scientist. And he wrote this book, which eventually became the Akashic science in the Akashic field actually, blanking on the title, the exact title, but we ended up having I rewrote the book myself, it was only 120 pages. And then I got the editor who had worked with Deepak Chopra, science and the Akashic field was a final title. And I got the editor who had worked with Hawking and Brief History of Time, and then he edited it after I rewrote it. Anyway, it took two years, and the books only about 160 pages. Because what we had to do is we had to take these very complex concepts and get them down to a level where ordinary people could understand them. And what was fascinating was, Dr. Laszlo was showing how new scientific concepts parallel, ancient intuitive wisdom about the nature of reality, the Akashic field, if people don't know about the Akashic records, it's the belief that everything that's ever happened is stored the information is stored. And the reality that modern science is now showing is that that's probably the case. It's not a superstition, everything does exist in successful anyway. So I represented Irving and once I represented Ervin that sort of opened the box, and I had actually sold a book to Neale Donald Walsch because he had his own imprint and Hampton Roads, but I hadn't representative but once I did Urban's book, it just opened the door, and then all these people started coming to me, and this business is very small. If you represent two or three of them, you know, Eckhart came to me, and that's a wonderful story of how all that happens. But when you have two or three of these big superstars, everybody thinks you're a genius and you have the magic touch. So they all just come to you. And because I've always been accessible, and very honest, I mean, one of the things that's remarkable is my father because I work for his company. I remember after the first week, he looked at me and he said, You may be too honest for this business. You know, publishing just have a lot of hype all media does. I actually know there's a lot of hyperbole will be kind of not outright deception. So and I've just never been, you know, I I don't know just my nature. I I can't lie, I just, you know, I have to be who I am. And I have told you. So,

you know, that's very attractive, because, you know, you want to be able to trust your agent. So sure, that's, that's one of the reasons I think, you know, we've been so successful. I've actually never solicited a client. All of my clients have come through referrals. So, you know, interesting, it's just, you know, and but back to your idea of the energy. Yeah, there's kind of an energy field. I think that calligraphy helps actually, I think, to create the the vortex, but I've always had it I mentioned this semester, you're shocked because he like, you know, well, why don't you share that, you know, some of your success comes from all these calligraphies. And things I said, Well, that's true. But you know, I want to be honest, I've always had this success, actually what the calligraphies are doing for me more than that, is allowing me to enjoy the success at a higher level. Because I do have what I did, I think I've gotten a little better at it very impulsive side, where I've thrown money at things, very foolishly I've given people I shouldn't have given them and being more respectful. And I think part of it is because of my interactions with master shot and the field that I think he continues to help create. But yeah, there's kind of a vortex of energy right here in my little office, where I don't have to do anything, I just wake up every morning and out of the blue and pretty good right now it's sort of intensified, I have had at least six billionaires contacting me in the last year, all from either want us to age them or publish them. And, you know, you can't invent stuff like this. It just it's kind of miraculous, to listen

Brandon Handley 41:41 to another Tibetan Buddhism book. I forget the Masters name, but he has his line. It sounds kind of like your life at this point in time, right? I have everything in the world comes to me. Right? That's kind of what he says. And there you are. Right, you are that vortex the energy is coming back into you. And I love it. What's bill? What's next for you? Your What are your thoughts? What do you where do you see,

Bill Gladstone 42:05 I actually see, what do you know, my main focus, you know, I maintain my health, you know, enjoy my, my kids and my grandkids? And, you know, try to give back. So how do I get back, it's what I do best. So yeah, we're just doing everything at a higher level, we're starting to do these big concerts for Masters shot, I think we're going to reach a lot of people through those. We're going to do calligraphy, exhibitions, I think we'll reach a lot of people through that, we'll continue to do our NF T's non fungible tokens for other authors, I just signed up Napoleon Hill Foundation to do some NF T's and working with Mark watts, son of Alan Watts to do some NF T's. They're interesting. And some of these billionaire clients that are coming to me, I've been a big champion of heart mass. And so they have, they have a new initiative, and there may be one level of it, which also includes NF T's which are able to measure your individual contribution to creating global coherence award you in some way, for positive behavior that leads to coherence. I do think that coherence and raising human awareness is kind of the most important contribution that I can make. And I think that I'm in a position where more and more things are coming together, I can envision sort of like the equivalent of you know, Live Aid concerts, you know, beyond just semester shot, just major healing concerts that raise awareness, and that, you know, make a positive contribution. I also think that, you know, there's a reason, I mean, some of these billionaires have called me up and said, You know, I had a reading, they have their own spiritual paths and my spiritual, some of them that have basically said that I was predestined to appear in their lives, and we're supposed to do something together. And none of us know exactly what we're supposed to do. But there's a number of things that I can envision. And I just say, you know, it's sort of like, I always go back to the movie of the young man, Karate Kid, wax on wax off, and you know, then eventually, you get into the main stage. And despite everything I've done, I really think most of what I've done is kind of wax on wax off. It's not really the main event. And I kind of feel that I'm still not quite on the main stage yet. But that's coming very soon. And you know, we have a number of things we want to do we want to reissue the type of the source film, you want to interview, more. Spirit wasn't

Brandon Handley 44:36 able to get that on and wasn't able to want to watch it really quick. And I wasn't able to find it on Amazon Prime.

Bill Gladstone 44:41 Well, because we've taken it down temporarily because we re edited it out it, just send me an email after this and I'll get it out to you and you'll love it. It's really, I mean, I watched it after 10 years and mostly is due to my wife's production and editing. But it's really I mean but it's it's fantastic. It's just, it's so inspiring. And so wise, there's so much wisdom. It's the kind of thing you could watch five or six times, and you'll learn something new every time. But yeah, I see that happening. I see interviewing more, and just getting more visibility for the kinds of things that I have been doing and being more. That's why I'm doing the show with you. I mean, I don't need it. And I don't seek it. I don't not enjoy it. But it's not, it's not necessary for me to be, you know, you know, I did all that in my 20s. But if it's going to serve, I'm very happy to do I mean, I was on the Today Show I was on, you know, I've done a lot. You know, I've done a lot that, you know, most people and myself included when I was very young, it was like, oh, boy, that would be the pinnacle of this and the pinnacle. And I'm in a nice place where, yeah, I mean, happy, you know, to be on Oprah or something like that, but I've never really thought it and, you know, despite my ability to sort of speak and be friendly, kind of very happy on my own. Just, you know, I wouldn't say I'm an introvert, but you know, I don't need a lot of outside. Recognition. It's never been something that was important to me.

Brandon Handley 46:16 Sure. No, that's important, too. So I mean, you you've played, you played a major role. I think in the spiritual evolution of so many people, and not a lot of people know that you've played that role, which I think is it's pretty, it's pretty neat. And again, it goes back to you have been of service all these years, so many people, they just may not know you directly. And that's what I thought.

Bill Gladstone 46:39 It's very interesting. You say that, because one of my very closest friends passed just a few months ago, Michael, guys. And about 10 years ago, I was going through, you know, we all have challenges. And I don't know, there's some things that were going wrong. And I actually was feeling like a failure. I actually was. And I remember Mike and I have known each other. I actually started waterside in his office, you know, 40 years ago, 40 plus, and he just said, Bill, you've helped so many people, just with the computer books, do you realize how many millions of people, hundreds of millions of people have benefited from what you've done, that was really a wake up call. And it really got me through that little bad stretch. It was like, Okay, I'm not a complete failure. I've done something of value. But yeah, it's interesting. We just did a class on the Dow with Lao Tzu and the greatest leader is the leader that no one even recognizes. The greatest leader doesn't even get recognition. The next level of great leader, yeah, they get a lot of admiration and praise, but the greatest leader leads in such a way that no one even knows, he or she is the leader,

Brandon Handley 47:50 Will. Again, you, like you said you didn't have to take this time. And I definitely appreciate you being on here today. You are rereleasing Master Sha book and the power of the Dow. Yeah.

Bill Gladstone 48:04 This is really something if you've never heard of Dr. Master shots, this new edition, this is just a mock up of the cover. It's really worth reading. I mean, it's a fun read. I've gotten a lot of positive feedback. And it's done is the story. It's not, you know, it's like how I met him and interviews with a lot of different people. But I think it really will open people's eyes. And I really do feel that he's not received to date, the kind of visibility that someone of that caliber and have that ability to give deserve. So yeah, of everything for this interview. That would be the one thing I would hope your fans pick up on. But yeah, it's happened to source the movie. You can go back, you know, Amazon is still this was my most successful book, The 12. It's really, you know, it's all over.

Brandon Handley 48:50 I remember seeing that I remember seeing that cover quite a bit, especially

Bill Gladstone 48:55 this book we published to a major publisher, and we got it into the airports and you know, it really, we can say it's close to getting the movie deal done. And that wasn't millions, and it could still happen. I've actually figured out a way to do it. But yeah, though, if you want to have a really good read, and understand that the Mayan calendar is real. And it never predicted the end of the physical universe. It predicted the end of the energetic universe, and we're actually in a new energy every 26,000 years, there's a new energetic field. And think of a sunset. If you're unless you're looking at the sun when it sets. You don't really know the difference between 10 seconds before sunset, and 10 seconds after. When you're at the scale of 26,000 years. 10 years is like 10 seconds. So we are in a new era is happening. You can see it in a lot of different ways. The fact that the world seems worse right now, doesn't necessarily mean that we're not actually entered In a better era, whether it evolves in the way that it's intended to or not, it's really up to each and every one of us. Each and every one of us has a role to play. Even if it's just at the level of your thoughts, thoughts do create events. And that's why I'm interested in ideas of global resonance. And I'm interested in being on shows like this. Because if you're full of negative thoughts, you're going to draw negativity. If you're full of positive thoughts, you're going to attract positive energy. So that I think is absolutely demonstrated. And so anything that I can do to help people sort of reframe their personal existences in a more positive way, I'm delighted to do so.

Brandon Handley 50:46 Thank you so much. But where can people find out more about what it is you're doing? Where would you like people to go?

Bill Gladstone 50:51 Oh, my gosh, well, the best is, I guess, just WWE waterside.com. I am not into self promotion. So I don't really know. I mean, yeah, all the people that I work with it they probably think Bill you're getting this tends to promote what we're doing. I didn't do it. So maybe they will send you afterwards and you can put up on the screen for sure website. I probably shouldn't reveal this. But I even though I'm a champion, while the technology I don't use it, I still have a flip phone. I don't I've never searched the web. I don't use I don't use the modern technology, people that work for me do. But I really, you know, if I could, you know, I'm very happy sort of living in the old 20th century. Having actual lunches with people COVID has been tough on me on that business has actually been better than ever because everybody was stuck at home and they were all reading and writing. So you know, but yeah, I miss I miss the human interaction. And technology in May is useful. And you know, I'm so grateful that we can do this zoom call. This is close to personal, but it's not the same as face to face meeting so

Brandon Handley 51:59 I couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. So I will share out whatever you're able to share with the audience bill and again, thanks for being on today.

Bill Gladstone 52:06 It was a pleasure. Thank you. Yes, sir.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Master Zhi Gang Sha is a Tao grandmaster, healer, teacher, and author of 30 books, including 11 New York Times bestsellers and several others on the bestseller lists of the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and Amazon. He has an MD degree in Western medicine from China and is also a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture. Master Sha has combined the essence of Western medicine with ancient wisdom to create Soul Mind Body Medicine®, Master Sha's Soul Healing®, and Tao teachings to help humanity. He is a grandmaster of several Asian arts and in 2002 was named Qigong Master of the Year at the Fourth World Congress on Qigong. With the creation of Tao Calligraphy, he received the highest honors a Chinese calligrapher can receive, being appointed to the position of National Chinese Calligrapher Master as well as Honorable Researcher Professor by the State Ethnic Academy of Painting in Beijing, China.

Learn more: https://drsha.com/

Intro Guy 0:00 Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you've questioned so much more than those around you. You've even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general you're so limited thought process Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can't quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the question you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world the people in it? Most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don't even have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question some time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let's get right into today's episode.

Brandon Handley 0:42 Hey there spiritual dope. I'm on here today with Dr. and Master Shaw, who is a prominent figure in many disciplines, science, medicine, meditation, spirituality, art, and he is also a New York Times best selling author name a few. He recently came onto my radar when he toasted an ambitious science and spirituality conference last month titled The tapping the source Summit, where he was a featured speaker alongside brilliant minds of Deepak Chopra and Ervin Laszlo. But the best way to introduce master Shaw is that he is one of the leading voices in the space of alternative healing and integrating conventional health methods with spirituality, meditation and improve consciousness. And finally, Master Shaw's healing methods integrate it focus on the power of self healing Body, Mind spirit and positive energy. Tall science combines traditional practices such as meditation manifestation, traditional Chinese medicine, Tai Chi and calligraphy with modern approaches and the healing mindfulness and psychology. Some mouthful. But Master Shaw, so happy to have you here today.

Master Sha 1:47 Great, it's my great honor. Thank you.

Brandon Handley 1:50 Absolutely. So I usually start this off in one way. But I think that you, you had mentioned that if you can kind of distill wisdom down into a single sentence, and that must mean that you have mastered it very well. So my question to you is what would be one line of wisdom that you would share with the audience today?

Master Sha 2:12 Today, I would like to share, you have the power to heal yourself. You have the power to heal yourself. I have the power to heal myself together. We have the power to heal the world.

Brandon Handley 2:23 That's yeah, I love it. I love it. And you know, as I understand it, you got your start at a very young age and martial arts. And you continued on to ACC, you puncture you've got a doctorate and then you continue to just go out and heal these people all over the world.

Unknown Speaker 2:42 Yes,

Master Sha 2:44 I grew up at the age of six I went to the park with my parents, or Tai Chi Grindmaster the strategic Marcia and the disabled the pulling hand the Master Chen to move the disabled poor 15 feet away. I ran to the master I say yay, music when the father I want to learn is he look at me is such a young gay 60 years old, right? No, no, no, no, no, you're too young. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, I want it. I know he's, I wants to, I want to say your parents around my parents. And with grid support. I started my age at the age of six. Yeah, wow, that was awesome that later you know, everybody know China Qigong, Kung Fu eating Fung Shui, Western medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, and are as artists now I have my healing cancer, happiness source with the Dow signs, all the things that we introduced, I positioned myself serving. That's all for humanity.

Brandon Handley 3:50 But in listening to one of your books, I understand that you know, you are kind of the vessel for the divine right as a servant of the Divine for humanity. What's that look like for you? Could you explain that to the audience?

Master Sha 4:03 Thank you so much. About the 20 years ago, inland amazing Buddha saw kill California and with full tempo people got up here, but I still diagnose it. As everybody see down there. God see here and I grew from China. I need to honor God. I said it Okay, everybody, no need to do anything. I bought onto the floor. I said, Dear God, thank you so much, because it's my spiritual courtesy. God punishing myself today I come here to share you a universal law. And he said, I am a universal servant. He pointed me you are a universal servant. He's where his hand everyone everything is a universal servant, or universal servant offers universal service unconditionally. If a person offer little service, little blessing received little blessing. If a person offer more service, we see more blessing. If pours in offer unconditional service of unlimited blessing. I see Dear God, I make I'm making a vow to you now, I want to offer my service for humanity unconditionally and a goddess smile and the he left

Brandon Handley 5:19 you go and So, ever since then you have been giving of yourself unconditionally Is that Is that fair to say?

Master Sha 5:28 Yeah, after that why I try what a 20 years and 11 miles per year. So, I basically you know, air air airport hotel, hotel airport, and I seldom go to any sightseeing, I offer the healing to two to 3am all the time as a healer. So therefore, I was uniquely in that apart. I serve that noun style keyboard workshop. Now I have a trend the 1000s of healers, more and more more medical professional call me. So therefore, my goal like I say just now you asked me one sentence, I am serve serve healing. Because I have created Saudi and Saudi and heart touching result. And I train healers. I teach you serve healing come by ancient the Buddhism Taoism, Confucianism, the eyes of essence Western medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, energy, spiritual healing together, and now calligraphy, Tao sound Tao water and a silica a package for humanity.

Brandon Handley 6:34 Right. I love it. And for the people that are just tuning in and listening to this one today. You master Shaw doesn't you know this isn't? You're working with big people. Right? You're working with very few billionaires millionaires are tuned into Queen what's what's the Queen's first name?

Master Sha 6:55 nplb Yeah,

Brandon Handley 6:57 yeah. So I mean, you know, this is a, you know, regions and, you know, monarchs. So when you when you think about, you know, who is he helping? And who's he working with? You know, the gentleman who was the inspiration for Jerry Maguire. He's worked with him to have great success. And now he's going on and sharing stuff on about Master Shawn introducing you to so many people, this, this is all true, right? I'm not making this up. And so I want to make sure the audience is yours or hurt. If they're not already familiar with you, because the work that you're doing out there, it's to help to heal people. But there's also all these ways that you are helping people to become more prosperous and find abundance in their life. Is that true?

Master Sha 7:41 Yes. The story just so you mentioned David martyr, go to Instagram. Famous Speaker Now TV show organizer, you know, and also the coach and 10 years ago, and Bill Gladstone is like a book agent for Deepak Chopra and Aki Toller. Tammy theories and also like Jack Canfield, all of them, and he introduced me to the David a martyr. I asked, David, what can I help you? David said, I want the more money. The more money

Brandon Handley 8:18 to show the money, right? You said show me the money. Oh, yeah. He

Master Sha 8:22 said, I want more money. And you know, like this app, I can make click with the table. And by the way, he lost $100 million.

Brandon Handley 8:30 That's not the money to lose. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah,

Master Sha 8:34 there's lots of money he lost. And you know what I did? Everybody relax.

Brandon Handley 8:43 So those who are just listening right now, Mr. Shaw is drawing some calligraphy, which is a big part of what it is that he does. So he's Johnson calligraphy here. And he's gonna walk us through it.

Master Sha 8:55 Yeah. And that Tao means the source or ultimately the source allows the ultimate origin Yeah, Mr. Korea, Chang Shu. chun chun means of flourishing, David Marshall last one a million dollars. And he asked for money. I said all the calligraphy and I said everyday put your hand together. Just to follow the path. And David Emerson gave a testimony. He said, I try over 200 days, more or less a year on the airplane. I do not know how aeroplane works. But I have the face for airplane which can bring me to one place to another place. But I have the face for massage as a dog calligraphy. Master shall say the dog Korea flourishing. Master shall say that this wants to give me a blessing. He never received a John any workshop not even know half hour. She just did 10 minutes a day. She said I could not believe the moment I start to do this Isn't my business start to change? Beginnings is a piece of more or less than 1.5 million per year, one and a half years later, she has a business to become a 60 million. Now 100 million. And he said before you asked me, he interviewed me many times, as a who's the most skeptical for Master Sha? David, I do not believe you at all. But now who is the most of believe you meet David also?

Brandon Handley 10:28 That's great. Let's, let's talk through it right, because I do quite a bit of conversations and around prosperity and, you know, kind of giving in to faith or, you know, tapping into source, right and allowing it to flow through you. I imagine that's kind of what's happening here, when they're doing the calligraphy but could you walk me through, like, what that process is, you know, my tapping into source and allowing it to flow through me and, you know, surrendering unconditionally, what's happening here,

Master Sha 11:00 okay. Basically, let me share ancient wisdom. If you want a wisdom, you will spread the wisdom, you teach people how to try and come alive, spirituality, spiritual wisdom, the technologies, the wisdom and the techniques and wisdom. If you want wisdom, you spread the truth. If you want the money, you'll give money to others in up this is really with the past life, the past life, like now a natural disaster, you know your environment that children, no parents, people, no food, no house, in a past life, you will serve the poor you will give lots of money, this life, heaven give you back again. Why your life some people try so hard to economic money, because we have not served enough for before. So therefore, many people struggle this. So therefore how to do that. I teach you forgiveness. Remember Jesus, you are forgiving miracle happen. So there are four very important wisdom is to talk with heaven. Divine if you believe or source. You said, my name is Chi Gong Shah. I do not know my past life. But in my I believe some people totally believe some people may not believe us. I do not know how much I believe. But I believe as a human being we all make mistakes. I'm very sure nobody told me you'll never make mistakes. I believe the challenges I have now in finance, or maybe her relationship, maybe something I did wrong. I may not realize Can you forgive me? Very sincere. So that's the key ask your forgiveness czar connect with the source what the David Mars has said every determinists. Now I understand are is that we can see we can touch by the source we cannot master shall talk Cree graphy is bring the source love light, the frequency vibration, invisible power, we see I connect. So my my interference, my blockage remove the door just open for me. That's a whole group if it works.

Brandon Handley 13:18 Yeah, no, I love it. I love it. And you have you have so many modalities that you've been teaching over the years. Another one that you talk about is singing, right and kind of vibrating from within. So could you talk a little bit about how singing does something similar?

Master Sha 13:33 Yes. You know, and the song. I want to share like that. About 17 years ago, I was in the bay area where the wooded area very famous area with my two teachers, three teachers that I said, you know, I said can you give me a song for healing? Everybody can said God if you believe God, the moment the moment the rainbow app, the strong force coming up rainbow light. My sword I show the rainbow light and the pool flew down I opened a massive Lulla Lulla Lulla Lulla Lulla Lulla Lulla Lulla Lulla Lulla I just know this God of soul voice. I said God that what is mean for that? God said I love my heart so I love all humanity. John Hart and the source together. Love peace, harmony, love peace, harmony, that I said God how to say I love my heart on soul. I love all you minor T John hearts and souls

Unknown Speaker 14:44 to gather love, peace and harmony. Love Peace and harmony.

Master Sha 14:57 This is a no no These people sending so I have a love peace, how many.org Free Download gifts for humanity. And also another one is the scene is called Towson. I wrote the ball. You know, everybody know I remember the flag famous singer in us. And 10 years ago, give her one time a private healing. And she said Master Sha, who taught do you say me? God? God? Yes. What the guarded kid did teach you. I said, God that teach me senior from the lower abdomen. And then she said, while she was fascinated, she said, while she was at the teenagers, for sound, the coach asked her, where's the virtual core? Of course, we know it's your vocal cord, and her co personna coaches and No, no vocal cord is in the genitals. She says you never heard people talk about that. And she was fascinating. She and after giving her one time here, he gave me a quote a very nice comments for my service for my senior now. Just a Hangout, a first 1000 Healing concert. And Quinn DMB was there and the hostess show and the princess and Isabel, who is a famous opera singer award opera singer with Domingo and such in the same state, she come down with other singers. We had a great fight, and not too long ago.

Brandon Handley 16:29 I love it. And you know, so you again, you're connecting with some people that have that a lot of people I think, when they see rich and famous people, they see rich and fame and they don't kind of give the credit to maybe the service that they're giving in mass. Right you So you talk about giving service like unconditional service to many, many people, right? The more that you can serve, the more that kind of flows through you. Would you say that's true?

Master Sha 16:59 That's absolutely true. You know, remember God gave me a universal law I shared earlier if you serve a little little blessing. Now I you know, like now, I have 1000 healers, and people honor me a lot. But what I did now I'm doing now. Instagram, every day, Monday to Friday 12 to 12 Five freezing me just by a few days. Save 8800 People Riley we live I turned on, okay, this is nothing guarantee. Experience the power of daily healing, back pain, shoulder pain, choose one area cancer depression. Hi.

Unknown Speaker 17:39 Hey, Hi, are you are you We are your ya yo Hey, yo, hey, yo, yo, yo, hi. Hi, yah, yah, yah. Yah, yah, yah. Hi. Yah, yah, yo,

Master Sha 17:55 five minutes, all the feedback. People just love it. Incredible result. That's why I said, you know, thank you so much to see the world. What I asked. I asked him nothing. Three surveys.

Brandon Handley 18:08 Yeah, yeah. And it's having it's having amazing results. As matter of fact, I also heard a story about you mentioned that you've got a book on healing the back right now. Yes. As I understand it, somebody received this book, and they said, You know what, I want to I don't know how much time we're gonna have to read this book. And somebody told whoever received this book. Well, you don't have to read it right away. Just put it on your back.

Master Sha 18:30 That's of quinti Jambi says that her story okay you know Yeah, yeah Queen d&b You know and I say Congo, Congo Congo queen and she has a car accident in January for few months to serve up in pain she was he was with a Bill Gladstone to your grandsons okay back pain master saw he said to the top quantum healing that's a book and its own I really booked an appeal to no need to read a book massage I put a tree with a hidden Cliff greasy and couldn't be put on the back lie down there Elisa my music at the top quantum machine is silent calligraphy I have a calligraphy wall and the art radiators in reasonable light so after one session 50 minutes after session clean the obvious such a few Wow Where's Mr. Robin pain disappeared? So therefore another time a medium I got the interview almost every day just a few days ago. A lady who the book interview me you may think I'm a craze have promoted Marsha I know nothing about the master shop. But I got the book. I have a back pain massage. I said put the book on the back for 10 minutes. I did I could not believe how much better I cannot believe a healer put the put the power on the ball and see it's so fascinating. Anyway, you know because I I surf every day freely. Now I have 1000 Harder Patreon story more number one medical professional. I never promised anything. You'll believe me. You'll see the word you do not believe me see, the by the word does not matter. I would just give my love. Nobody can stop me to give love and light.

Brandon Handley 20:12 That's right. That's right. Mr. Shaw. You've got a great saying about a pair, right? Share that with the audience too. For again, my audience may not be as familiar with you. What's the if? If I want to know about a pair What do I

Master Sha 20:23 say that in ancient wisdom if you want to know if a pair sweet Tec if you want to know to talk clearly see Towson works. Where come Monday to Friday, five minutes, Saturday quindi Jambi after Queen DRBD concert. She was moved. Mr. Shah, I will serve you unconditionally. I said one on You're the queen. Another. No, no, Mr. Shah, you are serving. Now. She hosts my show. Every Saturday 1130. To tour we have Tao source healing with the Master Sha Quinby. And tomorrow, it is Saturday every Saturday Instagram. Now we have a private account. That may be why mostly will be open to public people had to

Brandon Handley 21:04 deal Yeah, sure. That makes sense. And and you talk about Dow as dow is soars, I always thought Dow was something else. So we're talking about Dow clear. Are you talking about source calligraphy? Is that what you're saying?

Master Sha 21:18 Yes. Are you know that I think that you know, everybody know Lao Tzu, The Art of the doubt the gene. So Bible and the Dow the two most popular bellies, minutes and minutes of billions of copies of word away, loudly used to honor the by all university philosophy department, lots of dollars and 81 chapters and shared the truth of politics, economics, education, spiritual journey, longevity, even your mortality. Lousy is such such a wise man. And therefore it Kidada in Facebook every Monday or chapter by chapter, or chapter 17 People respond to so well. And also one background is an I was the China longevity Council who literally lived 808 years old in China. I was the lien holder how how they happen is a 204. In the war that fifth Cuban Congress, they gave me an honor as a Chico master of a year while I was on the state I saw a doll master where the dog clothes sit down those pouches by sit on you can see the power of this master as a wah disagree the master I approached him she is the punk Chinese longevity star 372 D Major holder and he said to meet with the next day lenita holder I want to share one story is shocking to me forever. I want to Las Vegas as a rejuvenation conference that I'll talk to in a brief time sit on a wheelchair for the empty the plate. And my master said kung fu master said Chicago first name you can tell her I want to offer the healing to her goddess brig timer powerless people and I said doctor explained my theta can I speak English very well. I said I said what's your condition she said she said I get a car seat and the middle of the back spinal column cardio powerless that my teacher put the hand here on the heaven this is real story my teacher connect with the source my teacher ha big sama got contact while ago push the power and AHA and the wall for time. My teacher said stand up to work the toxic no paralyzed people for the real stand up walked this call my teachers a power is the ancient adult masters that he transmitted power to me. I did also for Paradise. So that's kind of unique power and odd anyway I do want to say too much about myself. I've created so many miracles live in just one story in India. famers baalei will start Auntie army million people know her. She has a death in Mumbai and you know in in Mumbai and a live workshop and she came I choose a demo process. She mentioned here she's 70 Something like that at least. And also take on a hearing aid behind her nothing. I use psycho punk to lay down the life of wow if you need those to hear to hear right away. So you can hear what our people cannot believe it's called Live miracle to six a death one month later I returned no hearing aids also. So I'm also another in India you know why a session? A boy had tunnel vision on it because he here never can see here in 10 minutes my healing and she cry in a family hold together. You know the you know talk to Kathy again is Chief policing for crime the association and he heard he heard the news. They brought me to the to a doctor conference MD scientists. I offered the diviner healing hat because I'm not God, I'm servant of God, God gave me all for the hand. Then I choose one Dr. Chi summation one hand that I choose a demo person. The doc says how to do I say you just asked God him to do he knew that they had to go out justify five minutes. The man and this is a miracle. I tell you, this is Md scientists session because the miracle Indian people believe miracle.

Brandon Handley 25:35 Sure. So let's let's dial it back just backwards just a second, right? I mean, this is all super powerful. And amazing, right? You know, for those that didn't pick up on it, maybe I didn't mention it. You got the doctorate in acupuncture? Where would you say you went all in on spirituality? Or was spirituality always a part of what you did? And and you know, it was always integrated? You know, tell us a little bit about that. Because, you know, where or has it always been converged helped me out there.

Master Sha 26:08 Thank you so much. I 85. A compassion Buddha means people know when the compassion Buddha came to me at the age of five, she appear, you know, my throat I can see she showed me, Tabby to create his compassion mantra, or your channel 551 minutes Namaha Ranaldo IA and relax. Now Mohalla Donna de la amo am bolo de de Obernai bodhisatta boy mo without a boy MO The all on your on manavi Sudano la Jana medially though Iman Walia malo Ed bologna endo phenomenology, new ED MOBA, Nozomi Nodame. Washington Zabadani. Mr. Balaji the Healy mobileread Rosa Mala Mala more emotionally doing judo Judo Jang amo variety Dora, Dora was at URI ma ma, ma, ma, Maududi, northern Walla, Walla, Raleigh Vida vida. See, I learned at the age of five, for these secret chanting tabi doors at seven Buddha's when you can everybody can be active as like, give us a forgiveness give us blessings. So there are for at the age of five already a spiritual person. Now, a whole life spiritual journey. So therefore I study modern medicine, MD, traditional Chinese medicine, acupuncture, hai Zhi, Jing, Qigong, Fung Shui plus pure reality or the Tao calligraphy now I put everything together I position myself service, you asked me why I sent him go, everybody has the power to heal yourself, I give you a book everybody can do the job.

Brandon Handley 27:54 What do you think is keeping people from connecting with the source themselves the way that you have

Master Sha 28:01 this because people in the third dimension you know, we are in third dimensional long wide high, but people forget a Buddha saints on the fourth dimension millions of people follow Jesus and Mary means people follow Buddha minutes people for Mohammed. So, this is I believe all i all know all wrong, why missing people follow them, they are in the fourth dimension. We are so complicated the human stuff here here much more simple. So therefore my teaching everybody should connect with a higher dimension with a source there are limited wisdom on limits the power or limit abilities. Force dimension has a use feed the more tech power than the third dimension Fifth Dimension God their fifth dimension has yielded the power more than forced dimension. Anyway in one sentence there are infinite dimensions this allows the teaching Tao bigger than biggest no Andy

Brandon Handley 29:09 bigger than biggest no ending infinite. So if I you know I guess pick up some of your calligraphy or do some of your other teachings this allows me to maybe tap into the fourth dimension and then also gives me access to the fifth if I practice accordingly.

Master Sha 29:24 Yes, you're very smart. Beginning with a third dimension to now think all I can connect with the youth in it. They will not they want to workout. I think this we're if you call the president of US office, the President will not answer the phone. The Secretary will answer the phone is it good enough already? So there are four themes in why you talk higher dimension lower dimension since come down this respond already to that the human one, we come a step so there are for calligraphy Heiser Calligraphy is transformative art. Do you connect with the fourth dimension? That'd be People connect they then later we we purify purify we more light more light like the cleaner room like the studio one light little bit light hand light much lighter so therefore the higher dimension brighter brighter brighter our face she could live physical body turned to the light the body takes the practice spiritual practice meditation chanting so therefore it's a process to be higher higher higher as no way by the way you get the highest power No, no, no, no, my whole life. We are serving the calcaneal gang gang gang gang gang that I continue gaining every day I'm learning every day I'm growing. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 30:45 So let's say that I realized that the way to gain is to give right of myself so if I'm giving more so I can gain more Is that right or wrong? Like I mean is that you know, if somebody does that like you know, I've heard this before. So, what do you what do you say to that?

Master Sha 31:04 Psycho psycho Very good. Very good your philosophy there towards sure the first one a good keep sure

Unknown Speaker 31:18 sure Mrs. gave a good door.

Master Sha 31:23 Do I miss a to receive to receive our shoulder shoulder. So therefore, by the way you think I gave I will receive Why do nada thinker receive only you give unconditionally universal we are arranged to give you back why you think I serve because I want to serve I want to gain more steel surface nice. You think about the you that's so key for spiritual journeys, forget yourself. Totally give others. That's the secret.

Brandon Handley 31:56 So that, you know kind of giving without an expectation of an outcome, right? But just giving selflessly so that without any attachment to the outcome, reducing the suffering. Yes. Great. So your big thing right now is the calligraphy. Let's talk a little bit a bit more about kind of what led you into calligraphy from everything else because like I said, You did the use of the Tai Chi did all the martial arts you did the acupuncture, writing, singing, tapping. I mean, you've done so many modalities and you're helping so many people in the world today. What led you to tune into calligraphy?

Master Sha 32:42 Yes, there's a famous professional, professionally chewy, but the whole secret how special she was more than 100 years. She learned is the unique art form alas the Qing Dynasty unperceived teacher she was a born in a palace and she how this unique art for whole life. She's University professional Toronto University, China tune copy that like a Stanford Harvard, most famous to university every year when she was less than one two years. Every year. She was a guest speaker for the for Teach your child's language. United Nations honor her as a Chinese language expert. So I was introduced to her she we made a documentary she shared in a documentary she said I have incontinence you know more than 100 years and I use psychopaths lower abdomen. Brianna put one needle pull electricity Gouda one time to heal the incontinence and this is okay I think I showed my interest team and she thought if much if a doctor shall kill my incontinence, I may deliver this art I think everything you think about in the higher level thinking is arranged life is arranged we know that. So therefore, she started teaching me and after I learn is by the her art not for healing, but because of my healing background for whole life. I asked my teacher I want to turn this a calligraphy Eisah healing art. So go ahead can I teach you humanity go ahead. So therefore I change it one is writing like this. So normally for example as normally DA is a greatest normally dark thriller i is i and you know English A to Z are Chinese hags horizontal vertical live side by side dots are hook. So 16 components are to form our words. So therefore one is right he's like this. That See. See my life. I never stopped my law. Right? This call one is waiting for the this is why this wait him is Kevin. power but the key is I connect with the source they choose me as a servant so therefore not why why would any calligraphy I connect that great is love I connect the source are the we can see the power Canarsie taken me no time than you know that within three we have a lawyer a lawyer breast cancer come to liver 80% covered by cancer it was really awful I hope police case she went to all the major the top oncologists ironically we feel she just tracing because this invisible invisible light here like a day with a martyr and lost $100 million on trees this one or hundreds made millions because why because the the field the source feel your scientific way order connection harmony create a good result these order disharmony this disconnect him cause trouble so therefore this is the field to take a while to do this I agree Sir everybody knows sang shy we all did a song we feel warm but the song is in existence the word the star galaxies but the source is source of creative heaven earth the source is even invisible but the use of what you may not feel hot and warm but the invisible powers of creator power we seen therefore people connect we have 600 cases for chronic life threatening condition with a medical data on Bureau board result now for us for example now, US data now 40% Idols has a depression anxiety 25% I don't take a prescription medicine. See I put this one on the book. I'm putting on a heart okay heal me connect with the art okay, this invisible field heal me heal me think about this art it's a field sure was focusing on so therefore I put some people's hard to believe really hard to believe but one day it will grow people said whoa master Shah has a calligraphy are the book everybody can afford a book

Brandon Handley 37:27 What's interesting to me is is growing up I've watched quite a bit of anime right our Japanese cartoons or you know some type of derivative and one or even like watch plenty of movies and one of the things that kind of always took up stood out in my mind was they would take a piece of paper in these movies you know rice and calligraphy and pass it out like a spell and that's basically I mean is that kind of what you're doing here right you're like yeah, you're you're putting the power on here for the connection right you're creating this link to source for people to connect with

Master Sha 38:02 Yeah, that's exactly what correct and I connect with the source and the source Love Light the frequency vibration is the invisible the most positively information energy made within we have negative information energy matters for pain inflammation tumor relationship financial challenges, why we connect with this invisible light to take a light coming watch the darkness this in a studio you switch off dark morning light as the sound light up dark night so this invisible light more than this light more than the Sun is the invisible source because source created Heaven earth so therefore this hard to believe but because we have so many miracles, it's hard to believe but more and more people start to open all not only for healing cancer, chronic pain and also we did a research psychologist Ray the resolver for depression anxiety, David Ammar to get a huge financial place. Now the Queen levels get a place also now people start be aware massage as if creating new technology. Use our Connect Tracy, you heal heal me. You heal. I can do two minutes to swim. It's a healing. Give me a time. Let me hold my book. Everybody I can do healing for two or three minutes. Okay, well you already do I can do two minutes.

Brandon Handley 39:29 Sure. We can do that now. So I'll put a timer on give me okay.

Master Sha 39:33 Okay, give me three minutes.

Brandon Handley 39:36 You want a three minute timer yet? You're ready to be healed y'all.

Master Sha 39:41 Okay, nothing guarantee Okay, everybody relax. Close your eyes. Because this one is booked for back the support for depression dirt. You don't need to have this to any back pain, shoulder pain. Choose one area. The adult click we see. Our dear master shoutouts A total relax is a clicker you see the love light the frequency vibration will radiate my sound vibration will radiate a one area focus on one area on only one area your neck your back your heart you're kidding

Unknown Speaker 40:17 Hey yay

Unknown Speaker 40:23 Hi are you ya hate me? Hate You Are you ya he he you yah yah yah Oh ye

Master Sha 40:49 now calligraphy live there Ciao calligraphy love the sea invisible field class 1000 vibrate in one area remove the negative information energy Mater yo Yaya

Unknown Speaker 41:06 HEY YOU ARE YOU yah yah Oh yah yah yah yah yah Oh yah yah Yo Yo Yo Yo Yo Yo

Unknown Speaker 41:17 Yo yo yo,

Unknown Speaker 41:18 yo yo yo, yo yo yo, yo yo ya

Unknown Speaker 41:28 you ya hey

Unknown Speaker 41:31 Hey yah yah, y'all ye yah Hey Oh, Ye are you yah. Hey yo yo yo Hi

Brandon Handley 42:11 very powerful very powerful thank you for that. Thank you for that and I hopefully you know hopefully the people who are listening you know they they focus on me when when when you're seeing and you're giving this healing you want us to be calm? Right? You want the listener to be calm? What should we be receptive should we empty ourselves out and just let the music and the singing flow through us? Should we focus on a place that we're trying to heal? What does that process look like for example?

Master Sha 42:40 Relax please give me a second do not think something else right shoulder pain my heart is okay a gentle rig relax when you relax so the vibration open much more freely. Hi Allah Allah Allah Allah live coming vibration that people you know Monday to fry the Instagram lecture earlier I said five minutes for up to 1205 Just by a few days 800 people why because in ancient media is not your mission if you want to know you for Paris with a tasty eat when people keep us Wow five minutes I feel good. The results are phenomenal people respond because why just now you heard about Yeah, people will buy berry so you're asked to such equation relax why you'll see much a sharp back pain shoulder pain kill more cancer than normal thinking oh toilet gave you to the field? Yeah, that's a secret

Brandon Handley 43:36 and when you say putting them into the field he put him in like the fourth or fifth dimension what's happening there?

Master Sha 43:41 Yes because we answered that mentioned why so many miracles Hey,

Unknown Speaker 43:47 all y'all Oh,

Master Sha 43:57 this is a higher dimension frequency come down. It's not me. That's why I say there's so many miracle I do not take any credit. I'm just a chain or a sermon that the power go flew from my song flew from my calligraphy that is to the power

Brandon Handley 44:13 Yeah, you're just you're being a vessel right and letting it flow through you. percent. And let's just say for for whatever reasons maybe you know the song that you're singing and I've used it maybe to heal myself Could I also use the same song to be granted some type of prosperity and abundance in my life?

Master Sha 44:35 Yes. Therefore I therefore now I'm teaching manifestation course. So many people are learning because why? You know our house related with negative information energy, major finances, same thing, relationship divorce, cannot find a true love cannot get a pregnant everything. My teaching in my book now The first chapter universal law, very important wisdom, my whole life study, only learn three words share the second word called cheat, everybody no cheat, vital energy life force. Next, why is a kill? Kill is a tune with the metro, Metro, do a metro. So therefore, see beloved Einstein, E equals MC squared, this is energy E here Metro speed of light. So I started relativities do not have this shared, shared means to So, here's the spirit, heart, a heart, heart and the mind. So in quantum physics, information, all information or message, so information may see dollar signs or Dr. Rowley and I have quantum faces we created 1000s. And millions of people believes soul spirit, meaning people believe here, they are the same thing. And this is what we try to share with humanity. In our summit with Deepak Chopra with Ervin Laszlo people talk about classic consciousness Newton and Einstein relativity is consciousness. Quantum physics, we teach it Tao, consciousness. Tao consciousness is no thought human we saw there's no words I'm putting this so there is no sound hire system no thinking hires the thinking the highest power is with this source. So there are four top click we see Tao some Tao water and people who the Water Economy transmission I put the invisible power instead of people drinking Mira got miracle I'm just a vase. So choosing serving the higher dimension power goes through me offered to the Dow Santa Clarita water that's a miracle happen again again.

Brandon Handley 47:03 Now when you say no thought What's that feel like? So how does somebody know that they're experiencing no thought? Okay, thank

Master Sha 47:15 you so much. So in a Buddhist teaching Tao teaching even the people for millions people meditation, human brain is a designer for thinking number one, we have to think we have to think for the people may not know in a deep meditation you can spatial mantra you cannot try to force you know assault you will get a mental disorder and be very sure you're very happy happy very happy we have a song by the way you meditate while you can the mantra spatial mantra can I was higher dimension while you turn 10 Can human assault laser laser laser Zion while reach a high level you complete like nothing thinking the white light there's a higher level so therefore in the end, I just gave a beginning step for the higher Rama first is a chilled him this is your meditative chill. Chill is a clean lie the pure peace chill tune to kill me as of quietness. And the next one while you're trying to mind try meditation. The second stillness deal deal means the stillness. What's the deal? Thing is no salt while you meditate the more finely whoo Yep, totally quiet your mind because your hardest key hard house is the minor so this of course is a training and techniques champion. When you reach a state your mind totally stopped thinking but at that moment you can actually source that's a car steel.

Brandon Handley 48:58 And and that's how you know I think I'm trying to take a car Carl Jung coined a term called like the numinous right feeling feeling connection, overwhelming source of connection to Source is that kind of what would you would explain it as I will

Master Sha 49:16 see, no source because remember, no source is no human source. But the in the fourth dimension fifth dimension, the Buddha saints they have activity also. So why you have no humans are suddenly you saw wow the Buddha's gallery you saw oh my god the millions of people county that is in the days and police work they do have phenomenal also but another third dimensions. Anyway, this is this is very deep is hard to explain in the show that you have to get a premium.

Brandon Handley 49:57 I get it you also something else to the really appreciate It never thought and then I guess I've been trying to come to a way of figuring this out and you explained it very well. But I'll leave it like this. So let's say the healing works. The song works. I've tasted the pair. It's sweet. All right. You say to be delighted, not surprised, as a reaction. Right? Could you explain that? Because I think that um, when we connect with source when some miracle happens, yes, we act surprised. Right? Yeah. What why? That's amazing. And so why do you suggest to be delighted and not surprised? I'm curious.

Unknown Speaker 50:41 Uh, yet this like this.

Master Sha 50:43 One is the stage for cancer, liver cancer. 80% of brain cancer, leukemia. I have quite a few serious leukemia. They all recover. Very surprising. It's called Miracle hopeful, hopeless. For the for us a third damaged miracle. For them a source of No more No more sense of frequency vibration. We have a blockage, the light coming in. Wow. washed out like why we take shower the carwash and take shower we wash the third but these tog Kruger you see the field not a washer skin, carwash it's a skin there's a washer internal our guys Whoa, holidays from skin to boom, wash the stuff out. That is sacred healing SOURCE LIGHT, calligraphy carry a light see behind me, there's a Dow, I'm standing here, every moment a source LiDAR, Flash me flash a flash wash. So therefore dices connect with the source, we all can connect it. So therefore, you know I have so many free events, join with me experienced more.

Brandon Handley 51:52 Well, Dr. Shah, where should we send people to find out more about what it is that you're doing and what is next for you.

Master Sha 51:59 Next for me, is I want to meet some people experience or more experience that I love my heart so I love all humanity. John harness social together. Love Peace and Harmony, love his harmony. I want the millions of people understand I have the power to heal my serve. You had power to your serve. Together we have the power to heal the word. See the COVID and then King war, all kinds of crises of political, economic health, all kinds of challenges. Humanity needs to transform the heart, hard horse's mind so you know why the sentence humanity needs to purify our heart, heart, connect with a higher dimension where you connect with the heart. You'll forget about human stops, let it go. Human stuff will block you connect with higher dimension. Connect with the source. There are unlimited wisdom on limits. The words are limited success. That is my final closing.

Brandon Handley 53:05 That's it's a wonderful, wonderful next step. So thank you so much again, Mr. Shaw and one more time where can people find more about you? Go to Dr.

Master Sha 53:13 Shah TR is he.com Join me and I must social media Instagram Monday to Friday, five minutes a Saturday Queen d&d show. Every Saturday I do first time a free Tao quantum healing send the Tao secret on the free event paste the pair first. That's okay.

Brandon Handley 53:37 Here's the pair everybody. Thank you so much for being on today. Yeah, welcome.

Brandon Handley 0:00 I'm shuffling myself here for a minute as thought about the vehicle that got me to the grocery store, how it got me there, and it's gonna get me there to where I'm going next this week was a revelatory for me is there was a kind of some work experiences that caused me to do some reflection. And also recently read, listened to the Malcolm Gladwell book of what got you here won't get you there. And even coupling that with deadline of like this. The level of thinking, whatever you're thinking, you know, however you thought, Got You Here Won't Get You There. And I think that's somebody else. Someone noteworthy. So the things that made me successful in the past, right, kind of like just due diligence, go getter, and just go, go do what somebody asked, what's going to take me to the next level? Potentially, is asking more questions up front, clarifying and getting ahead of, you know, thinking I understand what somebody is sharing with me versus not. And I say that because my whole life has been a don't ask a ton of questions. I feel like I've got an understanding that sometimes it's a shortcoming. So that's part one, of, you know, kind of what got me here won't get me there. Right. And I've been successful at getting to where I've gotten to, now I need to get to the next space. And what has helped me along the way, has been just over the course of I think, the past four or five years, is understanding auditing my thinking, right, understanding what I'm thinking, being aware of the triggers, in my thinking, and kind of looking at them, reflecting on them, and just understanding whether or not they're for not even just my highest and best good, everybody's highest and best good, right? Not that I know what that is. But there's a I think if we if we give any credence to intuition, you know, we kind of follow our heart with that kind of thing, right? And I say that as I. It can be this simple, right? Well, first of all, breathwork is very helpful for this. Right? breathwork is super helpful for this and monitoring your breathing and where that's all right. So once you begin to put a pause into the automatic response of everything that it is that you do, you begin to realize that there are other options available that may be better suited to what it is that you're trying to accomplish with life or just How could your day be better. And I say that because the simple notion of this morning and I had an option, right of that again, this is also simple, but this is how deep your really thought processes go. The habit that I had this morning. Habitual automated life was I had my cup of first cup of coffee, a cup of coffee that I don't particularly love, but the habit is having a cup of coffee, so I had it. It's okay. Meg likes a dark roast. I don't like it so much. It's okay. As I ran out to the store to grab some bagels for breakfast. I was about to make a second cup of coffee because I have two cups of coffee. Right? That's my habit. Have two cups of coffee. And as I was getting ready to have the second cup of coffees is getting ready to make it I was like I don't even like that particular cup of coffee. Why don't I I know. Brilliant revelation. Why don't I just wait to go get the coffee that I actually like and have that when I get back?

Because our habits dictate a lot What we do, like, I think, people toss out numbers like 95% of what you do, right? It's just kind of, it's by rote. It's what you do every day, just automatic, the brain takes a lot of energy. But you pause for a second. You say, What am I doing? Realizing catch yourself in the motion? Of what you always do? You got to ask yourself, Is this still? What I want to be doing? Right? Like I said, at work, I was like, This is what got me here. What is it that I need to what is it? That that's no longer? It's no longer working from this role? What do I need to change? What needs to be changed? In this role? And look, meditation, you know, spiritual dope, right? Meditation comes into play, sit, relax, clear the mind. You know, set the prayer or meditate on what is it? That would serve me better in this in this space in place? And this time? Right? And the instance of why am I still drinking a cup of coffee that I don't even want? Right? separation between your your automated responses, and just pausing for a second. And again, breathwork will take a take a play with that, as you can pause and control your automatic everything for a moment. And it's just a simple thing. Again, why am I drinking this cup of coffee? If I don't like it? Can I? Can I wait 15 minutes, and, and sacrifice, that habitual response to have the thing that I actually like? And I think that the more that we can do that, the more that we can pay attention to those responses and begin to create new responses, the more that we can begin to create the life that we actually desire in a way that is, to quote, my favorite, one of my favorite authors for Florence. Scovel Shinn have have a life that is filled with ease with grace, and in divine ways. So yeah, short runs straight out to the coffee picking up the bagel will be like that. But I thought that I was sure that I also thought that I would share Hey, listen, what got me here isn't necessarily what's gonna get me here, there. It's not going to be what gets me there. And that doesn't mean like the ethic, the attitude and maybe, maybe all this, maybe the ethic and the attitude that got me here won't get me there. And those are some of the things that need to be revised. And I had to make that discernment that do I want the next thing and am I willing to do what's required to get there? All great questions. And these are things that I've wrestled with this is things that I use meditation for, these are things that I read for this are things that I do breath work for that that are all very helpful along the journey. Hopefully it's been helpful for you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:01 Good morning, what's going on, I am doing a 90 day challenge inside of another group. And I've decided that I'm just gonna go ahead and bring it outside of the group reminds me of the challenge itself is going live 90 days. Ideally, you're doing it 90 days straight. That being said, I wouldn't say nine days straight, but I am about 30 days in and figured I would share some things that have been going on, one of the things I'll share is shared yesterday, a thing on a bit on sharing lessons with your children that you learn later in life sooner to the children. And somebody else replied that sometimes, you know, people aren't ready for those lessons yet. And I agree that the fact of the matter is that they may not be able to understand. And that's okay, I didn't understand a lot of the lessons that that were taught to me when I was young. But what happened was, the seeds were planted. Right? When I finally did, you know, as I believe, learn some of those lessons later in life might not be the best place to walk. We did learn some of those lessons later in life. The the full weight of the lesson kind of bore fruit, I guess, is what I would say, right? Because those lessons are planted in your mind at a very young age. And, you know, think of a tree right? There finally planted fruit tree takes a couple of years actually to even be fully productive. Right? You plan it, and it bears fruit, you're like, huh, this is a fruit tree, maybe I should take better care of it, maybe, you know, maybe I should learn more about how to gain the most fruit from this tree, for example. And that same lesson kind of holds true. When you when you teach the children or for yourself, right, when you've learned the lesson, the seed that's already been planted, like maybe your parents taught you something young in life. And it all kind of clicks, right? It all kind of comes together. It's it becomes accelerated for you. And then. And I think that, you know, just like I think myself, you have an appreciation later in life, for the lessons that your family tried to impart maybe even teachers, whatever, whoever tried to teach that lesson. And finally it becomes finally clicks for you. And you have a new appreciation, because because you have a new level of understanding for that person. And or the lessons they're trying to impart. Because now you have new information, you have new experiences that you did, and that were necessary to complete the lesson. And so, you know, I share that, as you know, this morning. And this week, the children and I've been listening to the boys, Finn, and I've been listening to Liam, and listening to this. It's called a little history of economics, which is, which is pretty cool book going over, or going over the beginning of economics into present day, you know, and, and the little nuances within economics that maybe little little known factors. And what's really cool is being able to say hey, if you listen to this part of the book, in economics, then you you'll better understand kind of how where we are right now. One of the conversations that came up was, oh, will robots are gonna take all the jobs, so the economy is gonna go to hell that was

thin, sharing that and we had the opportunity to kind of walk through that we had the opportunity we have previous experiences in our world that kind of say that that's not 100% True. Watch out cars go slow. That example really would be liberal because look at the industrial age, right? When steam engines came when all this other stuff came, people were like, ya know, what are we gonna do for work? Whenever the doubles come in, everything's gonna go to hell. No, we're, you know, some things, quality of life actually got better. Right? And that was one of the things I explained to the kids like, what, uh, what jobs would computers would AI be taking, that, that be taken away from you with their jobs that like, nobody wants to do their jobs at the gate that can't be mechanized. And so we've been, we have correspondents a universal, whatever, what is a universal payment or whatever. And further and more, but then today, you know, popped up a couple of other different people in the book and their theories on economics. And first I'll touch on, you know, I think it was Adam Smith that talks about, you know, creating the pin and, you know, basically the the father of modern day economics and what we live right now, and what we all really need to understand is that we're living in a theory, right? We're living in a theory and economic theory, that this is how it works best for everybody to create, like the most the greatest GDP, right? So whatever it is, you're doing right now that you're trying to specialize in right now is based on economics, modern theory of economics that goes back really only to about 1770s Right 1770s With with Adam Smith, and you know, some continued improvements or adjustments on that. That being said, he's not the only person this is this put forward different idealisms for modern society, and a couple of them, several of them have to have kind of roots in into what I fallen into with spiritual dope, right? Like, how do you how do you have like a good material life and still have a good spiritual life? And you know, hearing some of the these other ones how because like, listen, Adam Smith talks about specialized work being like, people, they create pins, you go in to your job every day. And your job is to grind the, the needle of the pen. Like, how, like your life, would you drive yourself nuts, I'm sure Listen, there are a few people that can do it, right, there are a few people that can Moorish doing the same fucking thing their entire lives, and love it, and find meaning in it and just like everything in it, and that's great, right? Hallelujah to that motherfucker. Right? Good luck. I can't. I know, I can't. The world is way too diverse, or way too many things that are interesting to me to explore. And there's a one of the one of these, you know, theorists had even came up with an idea of exactly that, like communities built on. Yes, doing what you're very good at, but also having the ability to do and try different things. And, you know, people would do do what they could in these communities. And the way that they would get paid would be the profits from what they did, right. So basically, you know, kind of sustainable communities and then sell I guess, selling the goods. I didn't get too deep into it. But I thought that that was really interesting, because we literally are living in an economic theory right. And we continuously look at right now, look at look at where we are right now. And you know, all this inflation and the attempts to correct it by you know, you taking corrective actions. And you go all over the place

with with your theories on how we got here and zigzag and Zuk Zuk. But it's a theory And we're in the fucking middle of it. And it's not the only one. And so I just, I just bring that up because we have the opportunity to make adjustments we have the opportunities to just like the rest of our lives. See, see if there's a different way. And what's interesting to me is that what I've experienced and what I've gone through and with with spiritual dope, in the whole idea of like, how do we marry, you know, our spiritual life with our material life, and, you know, especially after you've become, especially if you've never, especially especially if you've never been spiritual, before you get hit with something and you don't experience and, and then you're like, well, oh, man, I gotta go become a monk. And oh, man, I gotta go. You know, in India, you go become a forest dweller, right? You've done and you've done your your bid to the community, and society is greener than I could get greener hosta which is a house dweller. Right, you you have your household responsibilities, but at a certain point, you know, you say, All right, well, cool, the kids are raised. I've performed my duties as a husband, or wife. And now, you know, I'd like to go commit the rest of my life to God. Right? I mean, that's how they roll. I'm sure that that's not 100% specific. But but it happens, right? So in America, we come up to this point, we call it a midlife crisis, we call existential, whatever, the truth of the matter is, we don't have we don't have a really good navigation system for that. Right. And a lot of that's based on, you know, how do we keep the economy thriving? And how do we, as good citizens, help to keep it thriving, and oh, if you, if you're not productive, you're not being a good citizen, yada, yada, yada, so. And that's all based on, you know, kind of monetary and gross domestic product GDP. But that's not all that we are good for. And so some, some other people have had some theories on how to navigate through that. And I thought that that was pretty exciting. Given that I've never been exposed to the to that myself, right. Like, I was like, Oh, wow, you know, other people have. And I know that I'm not the first person to go through it. But like, here's other people, they've had theories that put into practice, they've attempted to establish communities. You know, it's what we would call here, alpha projects, and beta projects, something take off, right? If you go back to something take off. And, and that's, you know, a lot of times ideal ideology. And plans don't meet the, they can't simply be executed, because there are lots of intangibles when it comes to, you know, trying to merge, merge these ideas, thoughts and processes, put them all in practice. So that's what I share with you today. You know, as as part of the challenge, so I'm calling through and just putting this stuff out there. I've done this type of thing before, where man I, when I did Father, for the rest of this podcast, I must have done like, hundreds of just daily, daily pieces that I got let out and for me right now. I feel like what I've been sharing is worth sharing beyond the immediate group that I've been sharing within and getting more and more into the practice of doing this. creating and sharing as a practice, versus thinking about doing it, thinking about doing it, thinking about doing it and then never doing it. So here's to you hope you have a great day. Hopefully, this has been something interesting and insightful for you as well. You know, being able to know that a you know, we are living in, you know, in this kind of theory, and we're working through it. It's always kind of an evolution

that we're going through and and and I think you can take that on a tangent as well take care of it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:00 What is going on BJJ report these year is 2022. The date is July 23. It's been a minute, since I've done a BJJ report, spiritual dope, but just just just recognize that this is all in how you say, all spirituality, right? Spirituality, materialism, life is all encompassing, right? thing for the longest part. People separate each piece and what they do. And they say, Well, this is my spiritual practice, this is my life practice, this is my work practices, you know, they separate everything. But when you separate, everything becomes diffuse and begin the kind of watered down and weakened messaging, all this other stuff. So in saying that, realizing all my own path is that it's not separate. And so going to jujitsu and having jujitsu and practicing jiu jitsu and interacting with it, it's all part of my own spiritual practice. And nothing kind of brings that home more than when you go to new and, and or different gyms. And you realize that there are good old Jim, like, I haven't been gone that long right now from from precision. I haven't seen them for a little while. And so you go in there, and there's no, if you haven't been there for a little bit, there's new faces. And then there's old faces for the old faces, you're super happy to see him. And for the new and you catch up and for the new faces, you're excited, right? You're like, Okay, what's this person all about? What's their game, and you get to know where they from how long they've been doing it. And it's really, for me, it's a it's a welcoming? thing, right? It's very welcoming you.

Unknown Speaker 2:13 You can only when you wouldn't go back, I guess if it wasn't welcoming, if you would push for, for anything, but you kind of walk in and you just say hey, you know,

Brandon Handley 2:26 introduce yourself and go in and get about it. But then you get into these roles, and you get into flow, and you just start to lose time. And And again, that's in Tibetan Buddhism, and maybe I'm wrong, I don't really care. They call this a Bardo states, right? These transition states, these moments in between the rolls, while you're rolling, what happens in the in the midst of midst of transition, and anything can happen in that space. And so what are the other things that we talked about was really honoring? Like, any level belt, honoring anyone, regardless of kind of where they are in the immediate practice of say jujitsu? Because when you start Jiu Jitsu, everybody starts off as a white belt. Or do they? It's a real question. When when somebody comes in as a white belt, do you believe that there's some integrity with that, right? Like white belt means really kind of never done it and you're just getting started and whatnot. So you always ask them, I do anyway, it's hard to know what their background is where you're coming from? What brought you in? Have you wrestled before? Because that always plays a big bowls jujitsu, since it's a grappling art. And, and, you know, what are you? What are you about, and you kind of do a little dance as you try and figure it out. That being said, I mean, there's definitely, there's definitely people that are inherently, you know, athletic, we play football, maybe they again, if they've wrestled, maybe they've done jujitsu before, and then just picking it back up again, honoring every belt at every level. And that's one of the things that definitely learned and we're discussing today. When I first saw it, I was I was at a competition. And I was up against this guy who looked young looking too strong, but he only he didn't have any stripes on his belt and I think I looked maybe two or three African and I thought I was hot shit. Right. Yeah, no, and I had some so therefore ergo, felt like felt like there should have been my game. Turns out like you know, you ended up going across collar choke on me literally choked. So he's literally like choking me out and like, blood literally pops out my nose. And I still remember like the the younger guys that were there from our gym. And they're teenagers in the gym coming up to me. Like, what happened, man, I was like, he choked the shit out of me. Right, I lost. But what really happened was I didn't give. I didn't give respect to the person, I was paying attention to the belt. And ever since then, you know that that's come across several times. I always talk about people who are blue belts, or purple belts, like a blue belt could be a blue belt for a lifetime. And you just never know what you're going to go up against there. But I think that what this kind of illustrates is life in general, right? You never know, a person's complete background and what they're going to bring to the party. Right. And, you know, even if they've been there for a while, staying somewhere and being involved with a certain thing for almost too long of a period can almost be a hazard to the role, oh, most people get set in their patterns, they get set into what they think they know, they get set their set of beliefs, based off of what they know, and what they've experienced. And believe that that's it, that's the answer. And the illustration, there is things like Henry Ford and the VA, right. The the eight cylinder had already been like something that then existence, but what they don't think that they had was the VA. And he wanted to make it lighter, and want to make it more powerful. And his engineers kept telling him that it couldn't be done. Told him they couldn't be done. So what did he do? He kept asking for it to be built, kept asking for it to be done. And he hired on new engineers, he hired on engineers, that new engineers, and he did not let them work with the old engineers.

Right? And he told him, I want this VA, I want it lighter, I want it faster, I want it stronger. And lo and behold, over time, these engineers, even though it never been done before, they were able to do it. And this was of course against you know, the the old engineers that kept saying it couldn't be done. I think another example of this happens, you know, just because you've got money and resources you feel like, and by backing in support, it doesn't always mean that, like you're going to get it accomplished first or best. And the example that ends up being like the Wright brothers. Versus I forget the language, first name, but Langley, right. Had all this money had all this support was doing for like the I think, I think the military. And here are these two, like bicycle mechanics. Trying to figure out aeronautics, right, how to figure out like airplanes. And, you know, the Wright brothers were the ones that figure it out. And Langley was super pissed, right? Like, he was so mad. The deal is, like, these things can happen anywhere, any way, shape and form. And you got to give gotta give credence, you got to give respect to people that are putting the effort in and putting the time in and showing up regardless of where you think that they are. Because that's not important. What's important is like, where are they, where they are, right? They believe in what it is that they're doing. They believe in what it is that they see. They believe in themselves enough to keep that and keep showing up, put the effort in. And sometimes that effort is going to overcome wisdom, sometimes that effort is going to overcome technique and sometimes that effort and willingness to put themselves into it is going to overcome resources and support. You just gotta respect that. That's possibility and see that and flip that script and see that for yourself. Right? You play the over underdog, whatever you need to do whatever your story is. You're the one who's right in that in the same regards to these other people that we're talking and about right, they may not have had the same resources, but they had the ability, the capability and, and they soldiered on and made it through, right? Or they showed up and they put the effort in. Or maybe they put more work in. And that's just simply respect anybody, whatever level you think that they are, and appreciate and look forward to whatever it is that they have to bring. That's nothing that I think that I've learned through jujitsu is really and again, like today, I really look forward to what somebody else has to bring, versus in versus really myself already know what I know, already think I know, I already think you know, already aware of my level of knowledge about that. I'm aware of my level of knowledge. What I'm excited for is like what somebody else brings to the table? What are you bringing? What are you doing? And I get excited about that. Right? I get excited about somebody putting me in a move that I've never seen before and pausing. What just happened there? Right. And I, you know, I play my own game and I enjoy it immensely, and are very pleased to their own strengths and our level. So that is that's the rambling from the BJJ report today. But I mean, the biggest gist of it is your respect the respect the person, the level of where they're at. Appreciate the excited about whatever it is that they bring to share with you and celebrate the differences right

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Meet Fatima Nathan, she is a spiritual person and a neuroscientist, she covers neuroscience from a materialistic and mainly non-materialistic standpoint.

She's the author of the book "I Am You... And You Are Me" (https://www.amazon.com.au/AM-YOU-ARE-ME-ebook/dp/B09B7DL859), the designer and creator of a tarot deck Shades of Gold (currently successfully funded on Kickstarter - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fmna1808/shades-of-gold-modern-tarot-deck-in-the-new-world/), and seeks to "Spread Light to The World".

You may check out more about her work on www.fmna1808.com

Intro Guy 0:00 Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you've questioned so much more than those around you. You've even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general you're so limited thought process Rest assured, you are not alone, the world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can't quite verbalized. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the question you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world the people in it? Most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don't even have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host Brandon Handley. Let's get right into today's episode.

Brandon Handley 0:42 4321 Hey there spiritual dope. And thanks for tuning in. Today we have special guest for you today Fatima Nathan and she is a neuroscientist entrepreneur, professional life coach, counselor illustrator content creator and author who strives to uplift the consciousness of humanity as she believes that everyone deserves a chance to be a kick ass version of themselves. Through awakening, she uses vibrational energy to practice Tai Chi yoga is extremely outdoorsy, where she spends time meditating, as well. Seema, thanks for being on today.

Fatima 1:20 Thank you for hosting me, Brandon. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 1:23 for sure. So I usually like to start these whole things off with the idea that you and I were, you know, we're basically just vessels for energy, right? Cosmic energy, creative energy, whatever you want to call it, right? We're connected to source and source is flowing through us to one of our listeners today. Right? And this message can only be delivered through you through this medium to that listener, what is that message that's coming through you today, Fatima?

Fatima 1:52 I guess the message that comes today is that we are all constantly always part of an energy of the universe. It's always existent. And we are part of it. And in order to be part of it, we need to let go let loose and just realize that it's much more than what it seems. It's just about being present in the moment. And living in it, and you realize this much more.

Brandon Handley 2:26 Yeah, I love it. Right? The whole idea that there's much more and I guess a lot of that's predicated on on being present and trying to become become aware of, like, what is it? Because I know, I always tell the story of like, when I was growing up my mom, she was always like, well, you know, you've got to be aware. There's awareness. I'm like, I'm totally aware. Like everything outside. Right, right. Yeah. Because yeah, because I'd like to see me bumping into what I'm not popping in any walls. I see everything. Right. But But I think that, of course now, you know, 30 years goes by and you're like, I think that the awareness that she was trying to talk about, was this internal awareness and this awareness and connection to Source? Is that what you're talking about?

Fatima 3:14 So I wouldn't exactly say that everybody is able, okay, let's look at it in a scope that everybody's working their daily lives, you can't expect everybody to say you have to be connected to source. But you got to be present in a moment in time. We're so busy in our daily lives, that we wake up and we do our daily things. And we don't realize that it actually requires energy, to stay awake to get up to walk. But if we were to take a moment in time just to stand in a place at a time and close our eyes, and just feel, we will realize that it's much more than all of it. And it comes down to the fact that when you are present, you actually feel a lot more. And that's what keeps you going that keeps you alive, I guess. So at that point, it becomes How far are you willing to step out of what you are running in your daily lives? I guess it comes down to everybody always looking at the device. So it's looking at their phones walking around like is if they don't look around, right? If you just take a moment at a time and look, listen, and feel it's much more than what we actually experience.

Brandon Handley 4:39 Okay, no, I look, I agree, right? There's a lot more going on than then than we even get into. And I think that especially in your field, right in neuroscience, and your studies, you also realize that like we're typically only able to tune into Be like such a small percentage of what's even available? Right? Like, I mean, I don't know what the numbers are, but I know that we see like, you know, probably less than 1% of all visual spectrum, we probably hear less than, you know, same same type of thing. Super curious about, like, you know, coming from your space. What was it like for you to tune into your own spiritual awareness? You know, this deeper level of consciousness? And how does that juxtapose with with the science?

Fatima 5:35 Yeah, so on average, on average, so as to speak, the human brain only use a percentage of three. So that includes all your functions just by itself. So if you look at it, much of the brain is not actually being put into use. And I do believe that part of it is actually consciousness, to be able to use that. And to create much more, it's another thing. So how did I do it was, it took a long time, I had to actually move out, move into my own space, like, eliminate myself from the noise in the world. And just sit down. And I guess, at that point, when you're speaking about vibration, when you're speaking about energy, when you're speaking about anything of that matter, you just got to sit. And you got to eliminate yourself from the noise. Yeah, it's not easy. And you can even do it when there's people present. And this every day, you just got to sit, and you got to just be in sense of self. So to tell you, if you tell that to a normal person, they'll say, Oh, it's a bit difficult. How do you do that? I mean, you go through everyday life and everything. But I guess when you to achieve a highest state of consciousness, it requires your mind to actually shut off from the normal. And you can,

Brandon Handley 7:18 yeah, when you say that, are you talking about shutting off like the prefrontal cortex? Like shut mouth?

Fatima 7:23 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So when we say that we're trying to say, shut off your thoughts? Shut off, what's going to happen next? What do I need to do next? What's coming next, what's going next, just shut it off for a while for a second. Just do that. And when you shut off that part of your mind, you realize it's very difficult. Yeah, it's very, very difficult. But if you just focused on your breathing, that's a way that you actually can't shut it down. Because you're actually counting how much you breathe in and how much you breathe out. And that, by itself, makes it thoughtless. And when you do that, you don't need to think about anything, because that by itself is energy. So yeah, it initially started that way for me. And then eventually, I went further into meditation. And I developed a lot of techniques when it came to Tai Chi and yoga and stuff, and it wasn't about a workout, or what I was going to gain from it. It was just about movement, and energy and how you work with it. So you got to start from really basic. Just imagine if you were born and you couldn't breathe. When a child is born. The child cries first is not because of anything is because the child is trying to gasp for air for the first time. And eventually, as the child learns to breathe, it gains a highest state of consciousness. So it works the same way. It's it's about becoming a life again by starting from scratch.

Brandon Handley 9:21 So I love that idea and that concept. You know, and what's really cool for me right now, what you're saying is that, you know, I teach breathwork I host and facilitate breath work right and right, that's been definitely definitely my my perception for myself has been when we do this breath work when we do the counting. We we are we have to be 100% present because we are focused on the counting we're focused on the type of breathing fan and and that eliminates any other thoughts from happening right and correct me if I'm wrong, right. But I guess the idea too is you know that our you know, our prefrontal cortex or our thinking mind can only really hold about four things in mind at one time, right, like, give or take. And so, you know, once once we're counting, we're breathing, we've got like, all this other stuff going on, we've got about four things happening, right? You know, we're trying to, like, breathe from my belly and expand over here and, and be totally present to this movement. And what you're saying, as well, I'm hearing you say is to like, this kind of unlocks and allows that energy to, to be there? Is that what you're saying?

Fatima 10:34 Yeah, I'm trying to say that, but I'm, but I'm also trying to relay a message to everyone that they don't realize that they're constantly breathing. If someone were to take a moment, to actually focus on how they breathe, that bites were they comes from the stomach, whether it comes from the diaphragm, wherever it comes from the lungs, it doesn't matter. It's it just goes down to just focusing on that, because it's very simple. Even if someone is anxious, regardless of whether they understand what we're trying to relay or not. Everyone always says just stop, take a second breathe. And it works.

Brandon Handley 11:22 No, no, I believe, right? Exactly. In any instance, if you're kind of caught up in everything, every moment, and all the things and you just pay attention to your breath at all, no matter where it's coming from doesn't matter what's happening, but you're like, breath. Right? So that's where you're at with that. So, you know, how does it you know, how do you how do you go from, you know, being this kind of pure science person? Right. And to spirituality? I mean, are they are they separate? Are there are they together is, you know, have we have we done a disservice by keeping them separate for so long. What are your thoughts?

Fatima 12:07 So, I guess, if you want to see people are now trying to build a scope between spirituality and science, especially neuroscience, because they're trying to link most of it with the mind. But I guess it comes from the concept of, I would say that the mind is always existed, you need to leave it. But in order to step into spirituality, you have to come from a space from the heart. So you need to leave the mind, come to the heart, in order to come back to your mind and create that connection again. So it's not about the brain is speaking about the mind. So when you speak about the brain, we're talking about all your thoughts, your reactions, your everyday when we speak about the mind, we're actually speaking about using it in the right way. What are you going to do? Use it to think create an outcome. That's the separate part of the mind, he gets to tell you whether it's positive or negative, whether you take the left or whether you take the right. But there's no wrong or right in this. When it comes to science and spirituality. Everyone's going to keep fighting for the rest of time. I mean, it's like any other field for that matter. But how did I come out of this, I guess I had my own life experiences. I spent a lot of time chasing the field studying a lot, thinking that was what I wanted in life. And I had my own life experiences that made me realize that this much more, and I went seeking and searching but when I did that, I asked for my soul. I actually stepped away from the mind. And I took my own time. I sat down by myself and I really asked from my soul. So it took it took about two years. It took about two years to in order to dissociate from something and really connect with a deeper sense of self. It required a highest state of consciousness and you got to know there are things that will fall off. People that will fall off situations that will fall off. But you got to be ready for all of it because all it welcomes is the new and at that point, you know that when you separate the science part of it that people talk about brain and you know, they can't explain most of it. And when you come to spirituality, this is something that is unexplainable. Try as you may, everyone can speak as they can. But everyone gets to experience it. So yeah, that's, that's how I see it.

Brandon Handley 15:23 Sure, sure. So I guess what I'm hearing you say is really no current, like strong linear lines to, you know, science and spirituality, right, that that's been kind of just

Fatima 15:37 now. And now, you know,

Brandon Handley 15:40 even I think even in saying higher state of consciousness, is that a scientific line that we can use? Or is that just kind of like, internal feeling a sense of self that we get to? Or can't? Is this something that we can put on a scale and be like, oh, yeah, it looks like you're, you're just below like level 33. And, you know, a couple more weeks, and you should have it.

Fatima 16:06 Now, so I always say this. Consciousness is good enough. Just being conscious. You know, you don't have to have a level, there's no level, even spiritual people never reach 100. Anyway, they don't have all the answers, that they're never going to reach 100%. There's no limit. That's, that's the thing about spirituality. But when it comes to science, I guess what they try to do is they try to put a number to it. They try to say consciousness, highest state of consciousness. So an example would be if someone were they in the operation theater, and what happens is, they don't wake up from a coma. And, but they can hear, they can still hear people talking to them. And if you hear when they come out, they always say, Yeah, I heard you. But I couldn't respond in any way. But there's no answer to that, that can be given. If you ask science, they'll say, Oh, that was the highest state of consciousness. But there was there's nothing that they can put a number on saying, Yep, this is solid foundation. So just like they can't, neither can we. So the number is the number.

Brandon Handley 17:33 Got it? So we're kind of at a point of we all agree that it's there. But we don't agree on what it is. And since we can't, since we can't quantify it, right? It makes her a Tucson makes it hard to science, I'm sure that's improper grammar. But interesting, interesting. One of the things that, you know, I saw on your site, too, was kind of like this, this linking with the heart and the mind. And that's a big part of of my own journey. I think that I don't know what the Buddhist line is for that, or the Chinese word, or I think in other languages. When they talk about the heart, they actually mean the heart and the mind connected at the same time. You get into like Western cultures, such as you know, America, and I guess, you know, England, where the two words are separate, right? And so, in doing so, we've, I guess, kind of treat, we've created that separation, versus some other cultures where, when you say heart, you mean, the heart and the mind? You mean, that connection? You know, I'm curious is to understand in your field, and if you've come across this yourself, I think I watched the show, I'm asking you, like all the science questions I've gotten now. It's fine. You know, there's, I guess there was a show that I'd watched where they talked about, I guess, that they have found that there's a cluster of about is it 40,000 cells are like the heart actually has like a little bit of a brain. And oftentimes, signals will go from the heart and the heart will react before the mind actually processes what's what's happening.

Fatima 19:17 Right. So, you know, they say that when people's heart fails, sometimes they put a pacemaker. So the heart generally has a pacemaker by itself, it's called the sinus note, right? And this is genuinely like the hot spring, it knows when to pump, how to pump and how many pumps in a lifetime it's gonna make it comes made as such. But what we do along the way, can either extend it or it can either decrease its life. So generally, the heart is the only organ in the body not connected to the Brain in the sense that it runs the entire thing. In order for the brain to function, the brain needs the heart before the heart meets the brain, because that's where you get the oxygen from in order for your brain to work. Right. So it's one of the organs, that it's actually the only organ. So one of the organs is actually the only organ that works that way. So when it comes down to what you were trying to ask, yes, it, it does have a brain of its own. That's why it's segregated for the rest of the organs. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 20:43 Well, how interesting is that? And so I guess the other piece too, right, is that, again, this is a, you know, some show I watched either YouTube or guy or something else like that. Like, you know, again, the brain or the heart. I guess transmitting like a fear signal or a happy signal or an event is like, coming like, I guess, what are they saying like that? The heart processes up to like, 66 seconds sooner than the brain.

Fatima 21:18 Right? Right. So what's, I guess? Yeah, right, right. So this is where I say, when you come from tapping into our highest state of consciousness of consciousness by itself, you're coming from my heart. What I mean by that is that you're opening up to what we all have, it's called intuition is something that we all know, that's going to happen before it happens. But truth be told, even people who are in the normal world who are let's say, they, they, they're, when I mean, the normal, what I'm trying to say is that they're not so in tune to stepping away, they're living their daily lives, and they have a sense that something's not right, something's gonna happen, or something great is gonna happen. But they say it's in their gut. Because the rhythm they feel is closer to the diaphragm, but it's all in tune with the heart. So what exactly that is, is that, that sense that a feels, it's called intuition. So the signals are from there. So if just imagine if you were to step back and open up entirely to consciousness, and then reach that part. So can you imagine how much more you can feel?

Brandon Handley 22:57 Yeah, 100%, right. Yeah. Terrible opening up to that to that much. Because, honestly, like, sometimes when you open up, you're like, Whoa, that's a lot. Right? Yeah. A lot. It's a lot of energy. It's a lot of I don't know, but I have the brakes on that. Because, well, what do we do with that much, right? So when we're when we're opening up and to consciousness, are we saying like, is this opening up to a feeling it's opening up to an energy is consciousness the mind? Or vice versa? What are your thoughts there?

Fatima 23:32 So, like, I always say, consciousness requires the mind and the heart to work together. If the heart is to open, you take in too much. If the mind is too open, you don't take in anything at all. If both are connected, you reach a state of balance. And that state of balance is called the yin and the yang. And that's what's very necessary, that needs to be dark with light. If not, neither can exist, but in equilibrium, they exist, literally in Zen.

Brandon Handley 24:20 So, so we're seeking what we're looking for is some type of balance. And in your experience, how have how people been able to make this connection and establish a balance.

Fatima 24:38 Okay, so so far, whoever I, I deal with to help in these kinds of situations, everybody goes through everything. What I tried to say is that you got to start with self. You got to start with dealing with what's in your mind first, you got to start with your worthy. You know, you got to forgive yourself, you got to learn love, you got to figure out things and life situations which you're encountering step by step. In order to overcome that opening the heart is always later, dealing with the mind comes first. You got to deal with what you're facing, whether it's past present, and how you can overcome that. And then when you step, and leave that completely, then you move into the heart. So it's a step by step, you got to start only with self first, it has no time. There is no time to it. But your life situations aren't a place for you to feel like, Oh, what have I done? Or oh, whatever I lost, it's about how can I use it? To face the present?

Brandon Handley 26:12 Yeah, I mean, and I think that as, as I continue to do these studies, that's what I found, right? Through through every resource either. Either, like the business field, right? Or, you know, through the spiritual seeking, right? Or psychology, this is a similar, you know, real similar story that says, hey, stop looking at everything, like it's a shit show and start saying what it is that is teaching you, right? Like, what is what what are you? What are you learning here? And how can you use this for your own evolution or for some way to move yourself forward? Right. So So I think that the plan that you're laying out works really well for the person that is already like, kind of like, open minded, or, you know, just kind of like, in their head. What about the person that's already like, over, you know, what do we call them? We call them like these, these empaths? Right, these people that are super sensitive from their heart already. So how do we help them to course correct and get up into their head a little bit? Yeah,

Fatima 27:29 so most of them are like that. So you see a lot of people who are also like that, and you also see a lot of people block. So when it comes to people who are more like, open empaths, right, and it starts with patients, you got to work with them, and you got to tell them, rather than starting from the mind, you got to treat with them from the heart. Because in the space that's so much open. That's where sensitivity comes from, right, how they react and how they are affected and their emotions. So you got to work from their heart. And at that point, when you realize, if someone is very sensitive, when it comes to those terms, it means a lot of emotions, which means although it comes from the heart, the main blockage is in the heart. So that itself is a key, not having opened it, that they have caged it because of some experiences. So you got to be really gentle with them. And how you tune with them and how you work with them is a bit different. So for them, I guess what they need to see is how to open bit by bit. They lack the trust in that sentence. So one person is through the mind. But the other person is through the heart.

Brandon Handley 29:09 I think it's awesome. Right? Right. Because again, you know, the main blockage is still in the heart. Right? Right. Right was what I'm hearing you say and I love to dig into it like so, you're saying you're saying like because of the lack of trust or something that's happened to them? It's actually still a Cait like their emotions are still kind of caged in right they're still crying. And I guess their reactions are just kind of like See, I've just got I guess I would say that I feel like they're more open right and overly sensitive, but is it because it's so compressed and tight in there?

Fatima 29:53 And K yeah. So yeah, people overly sensitive it's because it's so caged. because of what they've experienced, that any small reaction that people create that they've been hurt so much, or that they have experienced life situations that even the slightest thing would trigger them. And that's when you know that yeah, that's the starting point for them by itself. And majority of the people that you come across, almost everybody has their heart caged.

Brandon Handley 30:30 No, that's interesting. Right? So let's talk about how we open that bit by bit. What do you have for us?

Fatima 30:36 Yeah. So I guess when it comes to the heart, like I always say, it's one of the most precious things, even in our body, for that matter, we speak scientifically. But But seriously speaking, I guess from a Tyrian point, I always say this, start from self, start from their mind, treat yourself first face what you need to face and do what you need to do, you don't need to start from the heart first. Just solve whatever you need to sort of do your situation, bit by bit. And then when it comes to the heart, that's gonna be the toughest, and you're gonna be the first one to run. And it's gonna take a while. But it all starts from if you take one step at a day, just one step a day to make a decision. Like maybe you say, today, when it comes to the heart, you'll say, maybe you never trust people for anything, for that matter. And you meet a stranger and someone says, something simple. Okay? It's not a big deal. And you said, Okay, maybe why not? Or, I always tell people is why don't you start this way? For once, tap out of your mind, once once you solve the mind, but tap out of your mind, and say, Let me listen to what my intuition is helping me. And I save it seems so hard, always think of it this way. A child starts to crawl. And then the child learns to store but no one is told the child get up and walk. It's an instinct, right? And when the child falls, the child stands up by himself or herself, and continues walking. So who are we to say we can try another step?

Brandon Handley 32:48 No, no, I love it. I was actually thinking about it yesterday. And real similar terms, right? Just all that we're trying to do or accomplish. And I think one of the challenges is that we live in this always on instantaneous society. Right? Like, I can order I can order anything I want. And I can have it here today. Yeah, I want I want to watch any movie in the world. I can watch it right.

Fatima 33:18 Right now. Yeah, right now.

Brandon Handley 33:21 Right. So I think that we've become more and more conditioned to like this instant gratification. And, like super inexpensive, super easy to us. And that when when we're faced with something that smells a little bit like it could be work without like immediate gratification. Right? We're kind of put off. Right? So how do we, you know, share and show the benefits of, I don't know, transcending this need for immediate gratification for something that nobody can describe. But it's been we've been told it's so amazing.

Fatima 34:04 Right? So, so I guess when it comes to that one thing we got to remember, it's very simple. I always tell people this, it seems like something that's really far fetched. It seems like what most spiritual people experience is like, Oh, look, I need to spend hours meditating. I need to step out of my fears. I need to do that. Yeah, everybody needs to do that. But I always say look at it this way. When you chose a job, or country to move to or any situation, did you not step out from that fear? Did you not take a chance? Did you not make the extra effort? Every company says you have About three months, one month, three months of a probation period, it's not guaranteed yet you leave your job and you do it. Yet you make that chance, you get married, you have children, you don't know the end of the outcome. So if you live in that world, and you think you can do it, what's so difficult from doing what doesn't require effort, it's effortless, truly, to just step out from all these things that we keep putting too much energy into, and just be instead in an energy that literally vibrates with us.

Brandon Handley 35:46 Yeah, I actually had one of one of my breathwork students reach out this past week talking about feeling her whole body vibrating, right, just getting connected to source. I mean, so there's like, you know, there's this higher vibration that you get tapped into this out there. And like, when you when you when you tap into it, it's mind blowing. And, you know, she she said, like, quite literally she goes, now I see why people become monks or nuns or like, you know, devote their lives to this because it's like, why wouldn't you right? In the middle of reading a book that is somewhere not next to me, that just talks about that once you learn some of these tools, just like you're doing right now, once you've learned tools, once you've connected once you've figured out kind of how it's working. You're, you're compelled to go share it. Right? Like, wow, let's, let's talk about this, this thing that nobody's talking about, let's go talk about this. And what's interesting is is to me is, is that people have been talking about it all the time. When we haven't, right, we just haven't been at that level of awareness. There's been like, oh, well, normally be like, well, that's, that's for that's for those people over there. Right? That's, that's great for them. That's great for them. I'm on my way to get a latte. I got other shit to do today. Right. And this other thing that you talked about that too, is that I think a lot of people feel like you've got to sit in like lotus position for two hours a day, like you're talking about. But it can be done in I don't know,

Fatima 37:32 just walking.

Brandon Handley 37:35 Yeah. So So that's so cool. I mean, it's really interesting, too. And it's great that, I think to see somebody like yourself, who you know, you're, you're a brick and you're a real neuroscientists, right. Like, it's not like this is detached. And, you know, it's not like, I think what we've been used to, again, is people who have plugged into like, the spiritual life, they, they're a monk, they're a hippie, they're thrive, right? Yeah, like off the grid. They're like your life. And so I think it's really important and, and I'd be curious to see for you, are you seeing more spirituality in everybody's life? Have you noticed? For me, I feel like a big part of this surge, I'd say in spirituality, again, it's always been around us, but comes from COVID, right? A world worldwide pandemic, you know, a real people to connect, right? We're like, hey, wait a second, I need to tap into this sense of self and really kind of embrace it and understand more about it.

Fatima 38:44 Right? So when it comes to that concept, I guess it's called a period of isolation. That's when it is. So when there's an isolation excluded from the world, right? So what are you gonna do? You got nothing to do face yourself, you have no choice. Figure out your life for this happened. Because everyone went through a situation that was unimaginable, right? He can't go out. You can't do anything. So face yourself. So I guess as the years are passing, what is trying to happen here is that doesn't even the university works through tapping through a higher state of consciousness for more people. And if you realize more and more people are coming into it, and they're at least making the effort to figure it out. And we as individuals just like you, you, you run a podcast, and you know, you're spiritually yourself, and you do a lot of work. And it's the same way so most people are just normal. We are not sitting and we're not you know, saying mantra doesn't praying beads or anything like that. We're just normal individuals running our daily lives. And we meet people along the way. And we build a connection with them. And we try to do our best to relay the message and help with the universe to build a great state of consciousness just for the collective.

Brandon Handley 40:25 Yeah, I mean, it really goes to the beginning of the podcast, right? Like you are working, working through us. Right? Yeah. Working through us. And it's kind of like, how are how are we are going to express that right? How are we going to express our spirituality and whatever is inside of us, essentially has to be expressed? Right? Right, in the same in the same way that I guess, you know, an oak tree expresses an oak tree, a dot expresses a daffodil that for those whatever's inside of us, and neither one is like, there's no specific way to do it. But it's going to happen, right? Yeah.

Fatima 41:05 Each one has to be different. If not, you can't touch so many lives around the world. Every spiritual person comes up with their own way, their own method, and, you know, it has to work differently. If everybody were the same. Nobody's gonna listen, that should be taught. That will be the fact.

Brandon Handley 41:25 Yeah, yeah. Well, so you're also offering, like, some services through your website, where, you know, what type of people are you working with? Like, who should reach out to you to connect?

Fatima 41:37 Yeah, so I always say this, there's no particular type of person, as long as you're open. And most importantly, you want that change, and you want to start somewhere, just saying that you want something different. And to start, you can connect at my website.

Brandon Handley 42:00 And, ya know, exactly the, the idea and the desire, right to make that transition. Right. And I think that that's really where that's really where it happens. I think you would you would, you would said, hey, you know, hopefully, my soul, where's my soul? I want to cry. Right, right. And for me, I still vividly recall it was about four or five years ago now, you know, writing that question, you know, to the universe, right, like writing that question? Handwritten, be like, alright, you know, show me and like, within weeks, like, it was like, full on, like, I was like, Alright, stop.

Fatima 42:45 Yeah, you do you do reach that point. But like, I always tell people, it's got to start from there. And more importantly, you got to be open to it. Yeah. It's, I can't give you the, all the answers. If you're not going to make the effort. You can't do anything, if you don't take an action.

Brandon Handley 43:09 Right now. 100%. One of the things that I wanted to hit on to, till just now, you know, we always talk, we talk about the self, right? Searching for the self, just associating the self from this other thing and all these other, you know, when you talk about the self, you know, and trying to find out who the self is, Who am I like, you know, I know that growing up there. Well, clearly, I'm right here. So I know exactly who I am, right? And musicians later in life to mean something entirely different. So when you're talking about the self, what do you mean?

Fatima 43:46 So when I speak about the self, I always speak about, who are you now? I always say that, who are you now? Because even if I asked you that question, Brandon, and I sit for a year now, you will give me an answer. But no one has the answer to who you can be in the future. What you can build further from where you are. And I always say this, if you want to know self, just ask yourself, Who are you now? And then from there go? Who do I want to become? That itself builds an entire different universe?

Brandon Handley 44:35 Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, you open yourself up to the possibilities, right? Because it's, you know, if you run around and be like, I am this I am this, I am this and then you keep reinforcing that same story over and over and over. But then when you say, then you say, hey,

Fatima 44:51 yeah, so So when you say who am I? You gotta say, Why am I actually here? What is my purpose? What is my purpose? You are not going to get an answer. But you will realize the possibilities that open up just by asking that question from the depths of your heart.

Brandon Handley 45:19 Now, it's fantasy. Fantastic. That's fantastic. Thank you for that. So we're at this little point where I like to ask a couple of different questions on this podcast is kind of like, spiritual speed dating, right for team that's tuned into this podcast, and like, you know, I'm looking for my next spiritual date. You know, so in essence of that, you know, spiritual batchelorette Number one, what are we also afraid of?

Fatima 45:51 How self everyone is afraid to face themselves. That's the biggest fear, but they would have how much they would give, and what they would get in return. They think it's from the other person more, but it's actually themselves that they feel the most.

Brandon Handley 46:16 Not I don't want to say, look, I mean, myself included, right? There's, there's always things that I fear about myself, you know, either success or failure or anything, right,

Fatima 46:26 right. Because we constantly thinking, right?

Brandon Handley 46:31 But that goes back to that goes very goes back to what you're talking about, like, starting with the mind first, like how do we determine, you know, how do you say, hey, you know, you're worthy, forgive, learn how to love and then get to your your heart later, right. But those are the things that like, We fear ourselves, because we've created for some reason, somehow, we turned ourselves into a monster. That and, and it's like, alright, well, am I actually the Boogeyman? And sometimes we feel that we are and instead of, instead of, kind of doing the work and facing ourselves, because we're, what we think we've created, right can get in there. And the best term that I've seen for is called, like, can't do that shadow work, right? Like who? Who, who have you hidden away that inside of yourself that could use some love? Right? And allow for that?

Fatima 47:27 Yeah. So I always tell people just just do this. What he creates situations in your head when it is non existent. It's pointless. Why do you think of something when it doesn't even exist? Then you literally manifested into your life

Brandon Handley 47:46 becomes easier to see because you've primed your mind for it. Right? You said? Yeah. You're like, you're like, here's the directions for a shitty day. I'd like to have. Right, yeah.

Fatima 47:56 And then you, you know, people manifest things, and they get good stuff. The other people who manifest things in the reverse way as well.

Brandon Handley 48:06 Right now 100%, right. Yeah. Because that's what we've we set our mind filters to right we say yeah, just like just like we're Google and any database we set out what are the filters? What are the filters and what am I searching for? Right? So all right. Well, I got one more for you. Let's check it out. Do to do to do look for a fun one. What is your one wish for the world Fatima

Fatima 48:37 case peace and love. That's literally it's like Bob Marley.

Gave you could live a life with a man who spoke so much truth and who has so much wisdom and captions. It's living him in a real world. Literally, just being connected with everyone. So peace and love looks like this. You don't need to go out day you don't need to go and change the world. You're gone. You don't need to change war. You don't need to give you x stop with a stranger on the street. Smile. Say hello. Acknowledge live a Bob Marley life.

Brandon Handley 49:32 I mean, such as be decent and kind.

Fatima 49:34 to others. Yeah, exactly.

Brandon Handley 49:37 Sure. Sure. know for sure. So you know, Tim, Nathan, thank you so much for being on today. Thank you. That's a website. It's www dot F as in Frank for Fatima in this manner. And a 18 Oh eight.com Thank you so much.

Intro Guy 50:00 Thank you. I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. Stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove.co. You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual and Instagram and spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email there Brandon at spiritual dog.co And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don't forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to your zone and trust your intuition

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Chris McCann is a tech business and thought leader specializing in helping successful people and companies remember who they are and align their life with their purpose. After many years of professional striving at the expense of personal development, he awakened to the need to cultivate an inner life. Chris charted a new course prioritizing professional achievement led by personal meaning by studying the world's great spiritual texts, training with prominent spiritual leaders, and developing the tools required to navigate life and find real purpose. Today, he manages several ventures that help others find their meaning and purpose, including coaching clients one-on-one, building Scale-Up sales teams, providing corporate consulting on conscious leadership, and facilitating retreats.

Connect with Chris: https://chrismccann.co/

Unknown Speaker 0:00 Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you've questioned so much more than those around you. You've even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general, here's so limited,

Brandon Handley 0:12 spiritual dope, I'm on here today with Chris McCann. He is a tech business and thought leader, especially especially thought leader, specializing and helping successful people and companies remember who they are and align their life with their purpose. After many years of professional striving at the expense of personal development, he awakened to the need to cultivate an inner life. Chris chartered a new course prioritizing Professional Achievement led by personal meaning by studying the world's great spiritual texts, training with prominent spiritual leaders and developing the tools required to navigate life and find real purpose. Today, he manages several ventures that help others find their meaning and purpose, including coaching clients, one on one, building skill up sales teams, providing corporate consulting, conscious leadership and facilitating retreats. Sorry, because I got tripped up there a little bit. We're saying. So I'll tell you right now, I took me a second to remember, Chris and I were going back and forth before it's got started, how we got connected. And I wanted to connect with you because because I'm in I'm in the same space, as you as matter of fact. So I'm in the technology space have been now for about over 12 years now. Right? And, and what you're talking about really resonates with me, you know, how do we find purpose and like this? This daily grind, right? How do we wake up every day and be like, what I'm doing today is helping somebody somewhere, and is aligned with me spiritually, somehow, right? Like, shit, man, how do we make that happen? Right. So that's, and I was like, I was like, Yeah, let's have this conversation. I think that'd be cool. So that's happy to have you on here today, Chris. I usually like to start these off the whole idea that you and I are, what are we? What are we we are conduits for spiritual, universal energy. Chris, whatever's coming through us today is going to somebody on the other end of this listening in, and there's a message that can only be delivered through you to that person. What's that message today, Chris?

Chris McCann 2:18 Shut up and get out of your own way. You know, there's, it's really interesting, and thanks for having me on. It's a real pleasure, I love just talking shop and, and connecting with folks. So there's, I'll put a big, fat asterisk on the end of that, which implies that I could be wrong about all of this. So if, if I, if I ever tell you that I've got it all figured out, and emails, come over to my house and just, you know, walk me off into the nearest plot of land. It's, you know, it's interesting to think about organizations and our role in it. And you and I were talking about this a little bit ahead of hitting the record button. And I'm really fortunate to work for a technology company that has a great product. Like we literally get people promoted when they adopt our platform. And you know, and go into production with it. It's it's a content management platform. And, you know, various sales roles that I've had throughout my career, whether I've been doing technology recruiting, whether I've been pushing stocks and bonds or working in bond us for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter way back when trying to borrow the car from my parents, you know, and everything in my life has been a sales job in one way, shape, or form or another. And to have some form of meaning attached to what we do on a daily basis, if we don't own our own enterprise is absolutely critical. When I think of how we can make an impact, right, and it's different when you're working for a small startup, as opposed to working for a fortune 50 or fortune 100 company where you can literally become, you know, you know, badge number 13,743 That happens. And, you know, how do we then ascribe meaning, or find meaning in what we're doing on a daily basis, because, particularly with the pandemic, Brandon, you know, the the concept of work life balance, which in my mind has always been a fallacy, but those lines are blurred even further, when all of a sudden for those of us that are married or in relationship or have children or even grandchildren, we all of a sudden found ourselves surrounded by co workers that were anywhere from 12 inches high to you know, our grandparents. And so those lines became very blurred and how do you then go from an office or you know, commuting into working from home and you're a able to perform this sort of integration. And so a lot of the work that I've been able to do with people, whether it's my team internally at my company, or working with other organizations or individuals has been distilling the mission, right, and whether it's a mission statement on a 10k for an organization, or it's something that the founders come up with, and then looking for adjectives that you know, a shared interest or a common ground between myself as an employee, and the broader organization. And it's a lot less about, you know, I want to be this when I grow up, but what are the adjectives that really energize us as people? And what can I do more of that at least leave me in a place where I don't feel completely depleted, but I feel replenished. And that's been a really interesting exercise for myself and the folks that work with me and the folks that I've worked for, as well as my private clients.

Brandon Handley 6:02 That's awesome. I mean, I want to bring them up to one thing, yeah, it's great. I read a little bit of backstory, right. So you started off and you didn't start off like in like, you know, some of these fortune 500 companies, you start off as in, you know, a family owned Bread Company, which I think is really cool, too, right. And so you grew up kind of work and doing the daily grind, and you propelled yourself and you work, you kept working, right? You just kept this like really strong work ethic, and has a lot of success in the Fortune 500. And I think that, you know, look, if you grind yourself out, especially with youthful energy, right? As a youth, you can make a lot of things happen. He made a lot of things happen. And then at a certain point, you know, you ran into some of these things that you're talking about, right? This work life balance and kind of looking for it and realizing a it's kind of a fallacy, and then I'm gonna fast forward into the fact that hey, work life balance in the pandemic sucks, man, that was awful. Still kind of awful, right? It's still kind of going on. I talked about it at home right now I work from home, and I've got my two children. They were home with us for the first year. And even now, it's kind of like, it's, it's like, I feel approachable sometimes. Because, yeah, I'm over here at my desk anytime on my desk, like my wife's, like, you know, don't go in and bother dad, he's working, but like, I'm like, I'd rather they come in and bother me, then. You know, whatever's on the phone. Chances are? I mean, I'm not saving lives today with what I'm doing. Like, I'm not like, like, I'm not in the middle of surgery. Right. And I think that I think that, I think that a lot of people, as you probably saw during the pandemic, they realized, you know, where they had the opportunity to rejigger their their their stuff, right? Like, how do we, you know, what, what's what is important to me? Right? So I guess it'd be really curious to see kind of what you saw, like, in the past couple years, and where, where people are at, right? And distilling this mission and working towards becoming more replenished. I'm trying to think of the Strength Finders, there was a standout 2.0 is Marcus Buckingham Yeah, yeah, that's what you reminded me of, and thinking of that, as a great series, right? In that kind of what you're doing and having people focus more on their strengths, where they can go and leverage their strengths. And at the end of the day, they actually feel replenished, because they gave to the company versus something was extracted from them?

Chris McCann 8:25 Yeah, that's a great question. You know, so I had this conversation. Two weeks ago, when I was interviewing a candidate, and in the high tech space for an organization to all of a sudden shut their doors in this market means that something went very, very wrong very, very fast. And so I found myself and my first trade show in two and a half years in Las Vegas as a shop talk for that that was in and out, but the day before fast as an organization existed, two days later, after receiving 100 million plus in funding, they shut the door. And so a lot of really talented people found themselves out on the street, you know, overnight. And, you know, there's one gentleman that I interviewed that I really would love to hire, however, the role that we have opened isn't the right role for him and so we spend a lot of time talking about this. And what I love about marquee Marcus Buckingham programs and particularly with standout is that weaknesses are weaknesses for a reason. Right? And just because you have no interest in them, or you want to ignore them and being able to minimize them, but when I found myself ran into my we'll call it mid 30s. So I was two children that were teenagers at that point, and you're struggling to pay bills and trying to figure out life just wasn't working for me. Right and Nevermind the love affair that I was I had with vodka at the time to in every realize as I was approaching 40, that I had to do something different. And so I pulled this is when Seinfeld was a very relevance, you know, television program. So I pulled the Costanza and I decided to do the exact opposite of everything I had been doing to get better results. And it sounds like you've also participated in a lot of programs around self discovery. So it's anything from birds Meyer to stand out to the Enneagram, etc, right? Anything.

Brandon Handley 10:34 I'm looking for who I am, right, like, I'm like, I haven't figured it out. I need like, 70 Fucking books to figure it out. I'm like, I don't even know man. Like, because real similar to you, right? You know, got it, you get up to a certain point. And you're like, man, I've been working really hard. What have I even been doing with myself? And who am I like I've been doing everything people told me I should be doing. And for some reason, I'm still kind of stagnant and I'm still unfulfilled. Yeah.

Chris McCann 11:01 So hell, I was 23 or 22. And I house mortgage, I never finished college check. I barely started and I spent more time doing my radio show, and I did anything else. And I did all the things that I thought I was supposed to. And that's just how I was raised to your point. I mean, being the the child of two generations removed from a gentleman who came over from Poland to start a bakery. If nothing else, I knew how to work hard. But like the movie Christmas vacation when Clark is out there in his front yard, and he's you know, getting ready to display the lights in front of his in laws. And he gets out there in he's like Joy to the world. And goes to connect those connectors and nothing happens. The mother in law scoffs Audrey, his daughter looks at him or looks at the mother in law and says, you know, you've worked really hard on that. And the grandfather says, so did washing machines, and I don't want to be a washing machine. I'm gonna work smart. And so, you know, in this in this mid 30s, like, turn about because you'll hear oftentimes in these programs or reading books, like whatever you did when you're eight years old, is how you should spend your time today. But fuck, like is collecting baseball cards gonna put my kids through college is me sitting in the basement sketching or drawing or, you know, writing poetry or whatever, is that going to move the needle for my family? And like, no, so I started to really focus on the adjectives. So I love to create if I wanted to play volleyball, but in the middle of Michigan, there weren't any volleyball teams in the winter for men or boys. So I started our own volleyball team and intramural sports coaching, leading coaching my my brothers and sisters teams, writing and I loved advanced analytics. I was, it was like crunching numbers on the back of baseball cards, and I was a kid that's like, well, these are the things that I would do in my basement, when I get into that flow state where I lose track of time. If I can at least look for these adjectives and the role that I'm in today, right, where I feel empowered and on purpose, and is that I'm part of something that's bigger than myself. Maybe that'll work. Right? And it did. Right? And you know, today and it's it's funny how when we get out of our own way, and we do things that come naturally to us, or that we have a proclivity for where life isn't as hard, there's not as much resistance, you don't have to fight it, and you can be in the flow.

Brandon Handley 13:37 Right. Chris, real quick, do you mind? For somebody that might not be familiar with flow state? Right? I know that you and I, we've been like, we're so deep in it, right? Like you would like flow. I know exactly what you're saying. But somebody's missing, even though I've shared it on every podcast, probably as well. But this could be the first one that they ever listened to. So flow state, what does that mean to you? And you know, that that

Chris McCann 14:01 flow state for me is when I just lose track of the concept that we call time when I'm doing something that just feels right, and feel is the operative word there, right? Where and you've had perhaps meditations or perhaps you've done some sort of plant medicine where you begin to at least have a reference point as time being a construct as opposed to something that actually exists. And if there's one thing that the listener that your audience has done in their lives where time slowed down, that feeling becomes a reference points and you can start to lean into an explore more of what's available to you. Where you feel in the zone, you know, it's in perhaps it's because you're playing softball on the softball all of a sudden looks like a watermelon and you couldn't not hit it. These moments are few and far between but they're provided to us to help us Remember, our true nature? And we are on purpose?

Brandon Handley 15:06 Yeah, man, I love that. And you're using these words like, you know, empowered on purpose. Other words like integration? Are these some of the words that you're bringing into the companies to get people to kind of charge? And again, would you say here kind of feel more replenished? This is the stuff that you have in there.

Chris McCann 15:26 It is. And you know, a lot of it is really intuitive. Brendon? You know, I don't, I've been on the receiving end, there have been a victim of a lot of motivational speeches in my professional career, right? What I want to know is, what's the one or two things that I can take away and actually implement or use in my daily life? Right, I don't need a guy coming in from a van down by the river rolling into our office or going into our high school auditorium, telling me about the perils of alcohol, or anything like that. I want something tangible, and something that I can use. And it's one thing for someone to tell you or for someone to tell me what the answer is, but anything that's sticky, anything that creates lasting change in my life, has been because I've had a realization, then perhaps someone shed a light on it, someone illuminated for me, but until I can experience it and make it my own, it's not going to stick. So I like to think that whether it's me as a sales leader with my 12 direct reports, or it's me working with organizations, I like to think that I can help them find their own answers, you know, there's really three layers to that, and whether it's, you know, at home with my family or at work or working with, you know, individuals, somebody can come to you, you know, and as a as a frontline manager, and you and your coaching, right, and this applies to the work that you do, and the work that I do, where you're you're basically saying, Okay, here's the play that we're going to run, right. And there's the teaching aspect as well and where you're teaching them the fundamentals of how to be coached. So I'm going to teach you how to do a crossover dribble to use a sports analogy, but this is part of a broader plan. And it's that's the, the coaching the teaching aspect. But when the rubber hits the road, and we're lasting change begins, is when people will come to you for advice. The flip side of that is then being vulnerable enough on my side as a man and as a human who has a lot more questions than I do answers. And being open to receiving advice. You know, one of the things that you had mentioned around, you know, this journey of being a baker, although to where I am today, my father in law, and I sat down last week, and we were back in the Midwest for spring break. And, you know, he's said to be my goodness, 78. Self Made, put himself through Harvard, hardscrabble, Ohio guy, you know, he still drives what, uh, Billy Corrigan's Ferraris around, you know, he's just a really interesting guy. And we're having dinner and he looked at me across the table and was like, you know, Chris, can I can I offer something to you? And I don't want you to take it out of context. Absolutely. He's like, you're a Put me in coach sort of guy. He was like, Okay, tell me more. He's like, you're Put me in coach guy, like, just put me in and I'm going to figure it out. He's like, look at what you've done just in the, you know, 12 years since I've known you. And he's like, but that's not a bad thing. Chris, he's like, I'm the same way. He's like, You Put me in coach, I'm gonna figure it out. And I'm gonna do it right, I'm gonna do it well, how do you know what's not happening around you? Or what is happening around you? And it's like, well, tell me more. He's like, Well, how do you know, because like, you have a lot riding on content stack, you have a lot invested, you have a lot of options that are on the table, and there's no guarantee that those options are going to be worth anything, you know, when you're fully vested in 14 months. So my question to you, Chris, is, how are you going to make yourself more aware of what's going on around you? And I had to sleep on it. So the next morning, I woke up and I was like, I got it. Like, I have my own internal board of directors, Brandon, and I have a nutritionist.

A fantastic general practitioner. I had a strength and conditioning coach when I was competing. I have spiritual teachers. I have everything except for this business camp. And I'm in I'm in a frontier here. I've never been part of a post Series B organization with tall direct reports. It's working its way toward an IPO. I don't have have access to the Board of Directors weren't sitting in on meetings any longer. So I'm actively searching for a mentor who has done this and then where I've been. Now. This is me as a 49 year old man. If it were five years ago, that would I've been open to that sort of advice, would I have been vulnerable, vulnerable enough or willing to listen to someone as opposed to being a puppy and coach, certainly guy. Like, I wanted to be able to turn to Him and receive that sort of guidance and advice, and kind of hack my own professional development. Like, why would I not listen to someone who's a septuagenarian and pull up is absolutely critical. And that's really part of listening and feeling it and I'm very grateful that he was able to share that with anyone out there wants to be my mentor, I'll take it.

Brandon Handley 20:57 Well, you know, it's funny, you bring it up, right, like, so. I wrote down, I always do this, right. So there's a, I don't know if it's, I think it's national. But so it's called the service corps of Retired Executives. Right. My grandfather was a member of that. And, you know, this is a group of people, you know, retired executives, I don't know what else to tell you. Right? That it's an organization that helps people in business, right. They've been there, they've been there. I think one of the things that we do such a shitty job of is like, Listen, don't get me wrong, like anybody younger than us full of the van vitality and vigor, disruptive, all this other stuff, we completely neglect everybody that's gone ahead of us. We're like, well, you know, they can't even work an iPhone. So what the hell would they know? Right? But, you know, just because they can't work in iPhone doesn't mean like, I don't know, let's look at marketing over the past 100 years, marketing hasn't changed, the application of the marketing has changed, like, where you put your billboard up has changed. Right, the rest of it is all the same. Same thing with business. Same thing with a lot of this other stuff. I think that a lot of that's the same. And so I think the story that you tell is really cool, though, you know, you're looking to somebody that's been there before I did this very disciplined, very similar. My my father in law. Geez, I think I was still drinking. So beyond five years ago. That's how it mark time. Before After drink. So he and I were, we were sitting, we were sitting down. And um, you know, he's a great guy. And I don't think too many people, you know, talk with just have a real conversation with them, right? Just kind of like heart to heart. And I said, you know, what, Mr. Clark? I was like, what would you have done? Different? What looking back? What What would you have done different? You know, he was very successful in his own right. And throughout his own life, he goes, I would have spent more time my family. I mean, that was it. Right? I guess that was enough for me. And so like, you know, a lot of the things that I've done, you know, I always go back to that in my head. You know, just, it was a 10 minute conversation, but was very impactful, right, to being able to, again, look to the people that have been there before you man, like, one way or another. So I think it's a great story. And I love the you know, Put me in coach guy, right? Like, I mean, you go in, you jump in you go do it, right. And you're gonna do whatever it takes us what I'm hearing here, and you say, right to do it right to it. Well, I love the thing to like, and you've got it on your website. So you don't have all the answers. You've learned how to ask better questions, right? You're doing all this through, let's also just reiterate this issue, kind of a spiritual, I guess, you know, maybe there's an awakening. And you let's hit on that for a second. Where's this? Where does that hit you? Right? And tell me a little bit about that.

Chris McCann 23:43 You built everything. I didn't know that things weren't possible growing up. Right. And it's not because we had everything handed to us. It's just I think that's just how I came flying out of my mother's womb, like Life is one big grand adventure. And one of my board of directors tells me and reinforces that I chose the Super Deluxe premium package when I came into this lifetime because I've got all the experiences. And, and I say that because I know there's so much more out there. And it was what may 5 of 1990 I remember this distinctly and the context of this is a little bit different today than it was when I remembered this happening to me. I was what 16, maybe 17 years old, just turned 17 And I had gone out on a date with my girlfriend, and just wasn't feeling it. And I you know, I'm gonna take you home. I just want to spend some time by myself. And it will happen to be the fifth year anniversary of my paternal grandmother passed away at the age of 59. And so I guess I was what 12 And she had passed. And at some point you During that night, I remember seeing a light come in the window, whether it was dreaming or what actually happened. It's all fantastical storytelling, I don't know. But definitely impactful. And as this light, came in through this tiny window is like straight out of a Disney movie, and then sat on the end of my bed. And I sat up automatically. And it was my grandmother's voice. So that wasn't her form. And she's like, Chris, I'll always love you always be here when you need me. And how could you feel like I didn't love you. And then I remember a dialogue happening, although the words were are forgotten, but certainly felt this went on for some time. Now, the next morning, I woke up, I felt amazing, I had completely forgotten about the experience. And then halfway through the day, I was like, Oh, my God, this actually happened. And that was the first reference point I had of this otherness that existed. And then, of course, it was 1920, Married kids drinking divorce, 15 years of Clooney in it and trying to figure it all out. And I had lost sight of this, this otherness, or perhaps a truer nature of reality, to be followed by lunch in Chicago with a friend of mine, and we were talking about spirituality and religion. And, you know, it's a couple of, you know, old school Chicago sales guys getting together over lunch. And the conversation quickly pivoted. And he's like, you know, Chris, I don't know if you're familiar with this. But there's something called the Akashic records. I learned this from this woman here in Chicago, and she's like a grandmother. And, you know, she'll give me advice. And I learned how to do this, you know, sort of reading and tuning in. And for him to say that, to me, really struck me now, you know, how these things work. Three days later, and back in Santa Monica, I go into our local yoga studio, and the owner says, Hey, Chris, you might be interested in this event, but we have this woman, Helen coming in, and she's doing Akashic Records readings, and I thought you'd be interested. And I was like, who am I to say no. And, you know, it's I leaned into that. And that was my first experience, you know, sitting around with someone who's got these psychic medium capabilities. And Brandon, you know, I'm hard charging type a charismatic. And, of course, I had something to do, I had something more important to do, as I had already arranged to be able to leave early, right, because I had to get my son to his doctor appointment. And she's like, Well, Chris, and there's six or seven other people sitting around. And she was like, you know, Chris, I know that you have to leave early. So if you want to go first, by all means, go ahead. So, you know, we're sitting in a circle. And I looked at Helen, who's a very dear friend, you know, at this point in our lives, and it says, Well, here's the deal, like, everything's coming up roses, like I was sleeping on a couch, and picking up cigarette butts off the sidewalk, you know, so many years ago, and now I live near the beach in Santa Monica. I have a beautiful wife, beautiful family, and my kids are great. I want to know, how do we take advantage of all this momentum? Right, like what else is out there? And she looked at me and then Brandon, everything just slid away. And it was just as if it were her and I in the room. She's like, Chris, the first thing you need to know is how proud they all our view and where you are right now.

And it's like, wow, it was just like dead on. And I remember getting into the car because my wife picked me up or taking their son to see his doctor. She was like, What happened to you? And I'm usually not at a loss for words. So I fired my psychotherapist. Right, because What's past is prologue and I started leaning into, you know, my time with Helen. And eventually I was like, you know, I think I'm supposed to learn how to do this. Chris, I have been waiting for you to ask me, you know that in so she taught me how to access the records. And then I spent a couple of years being fascinated with that modality and all of a sudden you have the answer, and you want to help everyone. It's like, Come to me, I'll help you with your masters, teachers and loved ones and we're gonna figure out life together. And this concept of awakening is ever evolving. And I'd like to think that I've removed a lot of the self fascination from it. And as my dear friend and teacher Carlos says, he's like, keep on truckin. Right. It's like, what's behind that? What's behind that and what's behind that? So the reality is that, I don't know. Because part of this awakening that is constantly folding and unfolding and unfolding. I don't know how it all works. And I'm not fascinated by it. Either, if to your earlier point, if I'm getting out of the way, and a clear vessel for source or spirit or the creator, or whatever it is to move through and be of service, then that's all I need to know. And it takes a lot of the pressure off and having to perform you feel like that monkey with a right acid Brookfield Zoo.

Brandon Handley 30:26 No, not for sure, for sure. And it's really cool. First of all, right? Like, I love the, the idea of, you're 16 you're sitting on the bed, you've got your Twinkle, twinkle, little star moment happening. Right? And, and, and then, you know, 20 years goes by give or take, right, like, I'm just using round numbers. And I just, I just wonder if, you know, and this is just a kind of a theory, in my mind, we've got this window of opportunity that presents itself, right, kind of like the call of the hero, Joseph Campbell stuff, right? Like, in our late teens, right, we've got this call to the spiritual space. And I want to because I had something similar, right? Like, I think I was like, 19 my might have been more drug induced, but that's okay. There's like, yeah, there's like this, this calling this like, just kind of this, this huge pool. And, and like, you know, I remember leaning into a little bit then and telling people and be like, Yeah, I think I was meant to, like, go kind of, like, you know, do do spirituality, where can people give you like, the crazy eyes, you know, like, keep off in this car, right. 20 years goes by for you. So I always wonder about like, this kind of window of opportunity. And like, you know, if we if we let it pass, and like, we're, we've got to spend the next 20 years grinding the fuck out. Right? So we got to go there. So it's an interesting thought, I'll let you know out there. Maybe you can tell me your kids or sounds like they're older now. Right? Like and just definitely be curious to hear if they've kind of experienced anything like that for themselves. But then I also love that, you know, you're sitting there, you're having you're having lunch, right? And I love that like, seems to me, these spiritual conversations are happening more in our work lives. Right? As this is a professional company, I'm guessing this professional meeting, right? Not a couple of you guys haven't, you know, tried to figure out like, what the next what are the next steps? Chris, what's the next step?

You know, bringing up the Kashuk records, and you're like, I don't know where and then and then as you said, right, you know, what happens next? Of course, the universe is like, well, first seems like he's interested, let's present it to him. And

Chris McCann 32:40 yeah, totally, totally. It's, it's really interesting, for sure.

Brandon Handley 32:46 So you're doing this work, right? Not nine, like you're you're doing your day job. But it seems like you're also bringing this type of thought process and modality to other businesses and companies as a speaker. What a facilitator can tell us a little bit about the work that you're doing that brings us to corporations and sales teams.

Chris McCann 33:09 It was really by accident. So as part of my leaning into being a Spiritual Activist, and you know, wanting to bring the Akashic records or psychic mediumship or crystals and incense to the masses, I had created this either or mechanism in my head was like, Okay, I'm going to put down being a successful sales leader, I'm going to lean into just doing as many $200 An hour sessions as I possibly can, because I want to be able to help people. And, you know, that went on for some time, but I just, I wasn't able to really find a lot of traction with it, or even for that matter, satisfaction, because, you know, it felt like people were coming with really the same questions. And I'm sure this is true for you as well. It's, why can't I find my life partner or my relationship sucks, and that I don't have an interest necessarily, and just focusing on that, like, my, my client base at the time was 82% of women and 18% men, like where's my life partner? And, you know, sitting with Carlos represented again, and he's just a beautiful guy. And as a quote, how do I make this change? Like, how do I actually go from this to this? And he's like, you're doing at work, dumbass.

Brandon Handley 34:35 What's the what's the this to this that you're trying to achieve? Right?

Chris McCann 34:39 And how do I how do I move from you know, like, grinding away as a sales guy to just being of service to people to help him and he's so as Kevin was, you're doing it and I was like, oh my god, like I have so many awkward keynote is in front of me, you know, to bring these worlds together, right and to where I can play at work and be well compensated for it. That's the deal structure. Okay. But then someone today that's an executive in the company called because they just wanted some advice on something else. If you don't know where you're going to be able to be of service, and this idea of linearity between if I do this, this is the result? Well, no, I know that, you know, as an example, if I do this and make myself available to serve this other mechanism, a company might just say, Hey, Chris, we're gonna give you 10,000 More options because of this. So there's, it's not a direct transaction, right? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 35:43 it talks about that. Right? The whole idea of us looking for linearity, because the story works on a timeline and a straight line in our mind. I think that, you know, linearity does exist in once we begin to apply spirituality and or other, you know, talk to me about that. What do you see, ya

Chris McCann 36:03 know, I feel like it just integrates. Well, no, it frustrates my wife to know. And

Brandon Handley 36:11 I want to, I want to find out about all this stuff, too. Right.

Chris McCann 36:15 Yeah. So she loves to listen to these podcasts and, and hold me accountable for what I put out there. And that, you know, these timelines are really slippery. Right? And, and even if we're going to consider the idea of past lives, whether it's true or not, no idea, it's been my experience that there's something to it. But even then, it's not like because I when I would do past life regressions on myself, it was like, Well, how can I be in multiple timelines at once? Like, how can this be true for me, and like 1963. And this is true for me in 1959, but they're radically different experiences and radically different places. And what I've come to understand is, it's a lot like a DVD, or you throw it in there, and you're able to skip chapters, and there's some fluidity moving back and forth. But the movie Interstellar, right? So I love for these things to be underpinned by science as much as possible. Right? Right, right. And when we look at the movie Interstellar, and how you can go into space, and then you find yourself on a planet, where you might be on that planet for 15 minutes, but 40 to 50 years is passed, when you're 60,000 feet or, you know, whatever it might be above the planet, the science supports, that time is a construct. And if it is, in fact, a construct, you know, do we get to play with this non linearity? When we put expectations on things, and this is also like, you know, what's the purpose of life, you know, it then it has to be transactional. And even though that's our understanding, as a human This is storytelling and this is really organized religion and governments and others telling us that there has to be this framework around this to make sense of I'm firmly convinced brand and and that, you know, all the great spiritual leaders, whether it's a Mohammed in a cave drinking Ayahuasca, or is Jesus run off to the desert for 40 days, you know, these folks went out, they had some sort of a psychedelic experience, they come back and then someone puts a church around it, or a mosque or a temple. You know, it's like the profit is equal. This sounds like a really crazy trip to me. And

Brandon Handley 38:29 when no doubt, right, no doubt, and I think anytime you take some Texas over 2000 years old, some things are gonna get lost in translation, quite literally. And that's, that's kind of the thing I always, I always even like, look at the number 4040 days and 40 nights or whatever is more than yours. I mean, because look at you and I right now and the age of 40. I was really great. Man's really great YouTube, I forget who Rupert Sheldrake maybe, does, like, you know, life begins at 40. Right, and it's like it really, for me, it's really turned a corner, right, right around 40 and just turned into something so much. I don't know. Different, better cooler? I don't know.

Chris McCann 39:11 Yeah, it's talking to a neighbor of mine the other day, she's 82 years old, and her her partner passed away. You know, he was a curator at the Oakland Museum of Art. And she's had a really hard time because they've been together for 60 some odd years. And she's fascinating, fascinating lady, and it's taken time for us to get to know her. She's pretty, you know, pretty closed off in a lot of ways. But we were talking on the front porch the other day, and she brought this beautiful sage plant over for for us. And we were talking about aging parents and what she's going through and she's like, you know, Chris, like as we get older, you know, ideally, we pick up a little bit of wisdom along the way. But not everybody does. Right. And, you know, it did me Again, for me around 38 You know, my 29 year old son and I were out for a walk the other day when I was back in the Midwest, and he looked at me, and he's like, you know, dad, he's like, they say that people can't change. He's like, but you're dead. He's like, look at you.

Brandon Handley 40:22 Man. How's that?

Chris McCann 40:25 Beautiful focus. We're connecting. Like, I mean, I had him when I was 19. Right? Yeah. So easy. He's like, he's like, Dad, he's like, we kind of grew up together. And as he's gotten older, and he has his first child, there's a different context, much like our experience with our own parents, you know, when we became parents. And it's like, you know, holding, it's not that I changed. But everything that I had hoped was possible when I was a kid is ad infinitum. And so it really feels more like I remembered who I am.

Brandon Handley 41:02 Yeah, yep, yep. Yep, yep. Yep. I love it. Yep. True story. Good stuff. Man. It's really cool that you got to experience that with, you do a couple of other things, too. I want to hit on real high level ones. I was just checking out your Instagram for a second. Tell me about the quantum field trips. What's that all about?

Chris McCann 41:26 It's the quantum I forgot about this post. So this was, you know, again, underpinned by science. But you know, I'll oftentimes lead this getting groups together. And it's not stumped a psychic, but it's helping people find their own answers. And so as we're beginning to understand that consciousness, in fact, could have some underpinnings of quantum theory. In fact, there was a report that came out today with a University of Alberta. But they've noticed in these tubes, in plants and in people, that light disperses differently. And when you apply an anesthetic than they perceive it, this gap could actually be where consciousness exists. And I know it's a mouthful, and it's a lot to consider. But like, how do you then use these tools, these ancient technologies of meditation or breath work, or just tuning into yourself, to be able to intuit what's true. And so what we'll do for the first 30 minutes is talk a little bit about the science that underpins this, and then I'll have people work with each other, to be able to start to help people find their own answers. They're fantastic. We do them actually all over the country. And we certainly do them in our backyard. And again, giving people tools to be able to find their own answers is where I find the most joy, right? Because I know he

Brandon Handley 42:54 loves something, let's talk about that real quick, do not do not turn up, right, like we talked about, like practical, tangible things, right. And a lot of times like we're have you and I are having a great conversation, but it's definitely very high level, right? So what is like a practical tool or two that somebody like you're talking about right now. They're challenged in life. And they they what are some tools that you offer them.

Chris McCann 43:15 So what I love to be able to do is connect with folks. And what we oftentimes do is find that one moment where it's either have significant trauma, or they felt the most connected, and will begin to on Earth, how and where they feel that as men that are in the body as men in our 40s, we oftentimes turn off our feelings

Brandon Handley 43:41 turned off at like eight man, come on now.

Chris McCann 43:43 Everything moves directly down into the root chakra. And what I've noticed in working with men is that we don't allow ourselves to feel. And so because I love working with with fellows that are in a similar situation to myself, is noticing where in the body this is in developing a discipline. And that can feel like a dirty word. But discipline to me is really listening. And developing the discipline to listen to where in your body feels most connected to what's true for you. And this can be done over the course of three minutes. It can be done over the course of you know, a couple of hours. But it's an intuitive exercise and will surface up something that's going to resonate. And women at least give you a runner. So as you go into your next meeting, or you go into your next day, where if your spidey senses off about something, where do I feel that in my body, and then we start to develop a muscle memory around? Well, if I listen to this part of my intuition, and not over intellectualize it, what happens when they bet on that? And invariably, when people begin to tap into what feels right for them, what's true for you? That's not for anyone else to tell you. What's true. For You is a very intimate internal affair. And to give people tools to be able to tap into that, whether it's connecting with your breath or just being able to close your eyes and listen, it's developing that anchor. And then over time, we begin to leverage that more and more. And I know that's a very broad stroke answer. But it's all about feeling and listening.

Brandon Handley 45:24 No, I'm with you, right. So I want to own nail a couple of things down here, right discipline. I think that if anybody goes and I look up the word, it really just means how to learn, right? Like, I mean, it's not like, you know, how do you learn? And then how do you apply that and not even like a rigorous, like, you're gonna get 30 swatches if you don't do this correctly, kind of thing. Having that develop that for yourself, right? Like they were called disciples. People, they were, you know, they were called disciples. And it's not not not too far off a discipline, right? So it's really, really about learning. I love to that you're sitting on, you know, what's true for you, intimately and truthfully. Books upstairs, you got to be your own authority, Chris, you got to be your own authority, what's inside of you, you can't have somebody else telling you what's inside of you. Right? You may, you may, you may need some work right with somebody like, especially as men, we shut everything down a certain period, we grin and bear it and we trudge forth we Sally forest, we grind them do all the weeds, all this stuff that like leaves us burnt out a certain period. Because we never paid any attention to ourselves internally, and we need to reconnect with that, right? We need to learn what these feelings are that I'm feeling, right? What is what is this that I'm feeling? Because that can be a huge frustration point to that. I'm feeling this thing. I want to know what it is. And the next closest thing that I've got to it's anger. Right, right, because I don't know what it is that I'm feeling. So I'm just gonna plop this over into anger and be angry. Right? It could be something else. So like in this huge spectrum of what feelings are. So in this whole piece of what you're talking about, too, is vulnerability, right? You've got to be willing to test that intuition. It could be a scary moment, I could be coming up to you, Chris, you could be my you know, you could be my sales leader. I'm like, Chris, you know, I'm, I'm feeling this certain way. And I'm just gonna go with I'm saying that you don't know that I'm trying to come from a place it's coming from my right shoulder is where I'm feeling this intuition. It's a vulnerability, right? Because to man, especially, that's a chink in our armor, right? Here's that chicken, the odds of my feelings right here. If he can see what my feelings are, he's gonna poke at it. Right? So but if we do that, and something good comes out of it. That becomes it becomes strength. Right? It becomes like a really just an awesome, awesome tool. So I think that that's kind of what you're sharing, right? Yeah. Yeah, awesome. So thanks for sharing that. So, Chris, what I like to do around this part is to lean into ces for like the fun part of the show, right? Somebody tuned in today. They tuned in at the beginning, they liked what she had to say about like, you know, the beginning on like, who your message, but this is a little bit like spiritual speeding, right, Chris, somebody, somebody out there is like, alright, well, depending on how he answers one of these two questions is what now I'm gonna go spend some more time with Chris. So spiritual Bachelor Number one, distraction.

Chris McCann 48:35 Greatest distraction.

The disconnect between our bodies and our higher self.

Brandon Handley 48:51 Talk a little bit more about that.

Chris McCann 48:53 This dissonance exists between what we think is true, or we want to be true and what actually is true. And we over intellectualize think too much, feel too little. thinking too much. It was a greatest distraction for me. For many people that I work with

Brandon Handley 49:12 too much in the head. Yeah. Too much too much too much up there. You know, I talk a lot about that. And just the idea, and I'm sure you've run across this yourself. But, you know, in other cultures, you know, the word for your heart and your mind is usually just one word. Right? And it's our western civilization. We've got the heart in the mind where they're separated. So it's it, we mentally have them separate, right. And so the disconnects it's not an evolution, we started, you know, we're like, oh, that's your heart. That's your mind. Right. And so I think that's an interesting one for sure. getting back in touch with body sounds like you're doing that through breathwork meditation, and even just like, hey, where do you feel that in your body?

Chris McCann 49:58 Yeah, let's name is not it. simply an auditory experience,

Brandon Handley 50:02 feeling feeling for sure. Man is current religion serving its purpose.

Chris McCann 50:10 Yes, to those that need that education. Religion is a construct that man is put around spiritual experiences. And I do believe that we select, or we select the variables that were presented in this particular lifetime and expression. And if we're meant to be dogmatic in any certain religion, or tenant or belief system, it's because there's something for us to learn. So I'll say yes. But the opportunity exists, then to prove out that that might not be true for you, which can lead to some pretty radical self inquiry and forming your own internal affairs. That to me has been the opportunity.

Brandon Handley 50:57 I got you I got so serving, serving a purpose. Serving Yes, for sure. For

Chris McCann 51:03 sure. Maybe, maybe not the highest purpose but a purpose

Brandon Handley 51:06 pay? For sure. For sure. I get it. I get it. Well, Chris, you know, a couple of things. Everybody, I want to make sure that, you know, Chris does does looks like you do some awesome work with men as well. You do some men's group, at least men's groups. I loved having this conversation a little bit. We touched on that. men's groups as well. You do speaking engagements, it sounds like you're facilitate trying to get businesses closely aligned with purpose. Intent, right, and being aligned and really engaging their workers. Right. Yeah. And what else? What is? Yeah, what else? Would you let want to make sure people know that? Who should be connecting with you? Right?

Chris McCann 51:46 Yeah, you know, and it's a lot of organizations are just like people, right? They're organisms. And I think of content stack, you know, where I am today is it's a movement, and it's not an organization. And, you know, it's when you have so many people involved, it takes on an energy to itself, but oftentimes organizations, even though there may be noble one thoughts, they can often be weakened execution, they lose sight of their original intent with the founders original purposes. And for me, and when I work with organizations like that, you know, it's just, again, it's helping this entity or this organism, remember who they are, and then aligning the people that are there to that mission, but the mission first than the team, and then it's you, the employee, or you the CEO. So organizations that feel like perhaps they've lost a sense of themselves, or want to perhaps create, I mean, that sounds altruistic, but perhaps a way for people to feel more empowered and invested in something bigger than the company. There's an invitation for them to reach out to me there. And I just love helping guys like guys that have grinded, they've done everything right. So at least at the beginning, they were told was right. And yet, somehow they get to this place where it's like, Fuck, I thought I arrived at a miserable. Yeah. And I can, and I love helping as well.

Brandon Handley 53:12 That's awesome. Christina, where should people go to find out more about you?

Chris McCann 53:15 Just go to the website. It's Chris McCann, ch, RI S, M C, C, A. N n.cl. There's a Contact Me page there. And my myself and my team of myself will gladly respond and you set a time to talk.

Brandon Handley 53:30 Awesome. Thanks for being on today.

Chris McCann 53:31 Thanks for having me. It was a real pleasure. Absolutely. I

Unknown Speaker 53:37 really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. Stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove.co. You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual and Instagram at spiritual underscore go. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email there, Brandon at spiritual dove.co And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don't forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Intro Guy 0:00 Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you've questioned so much more than those around you. You've even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general, you're so limited?

Brandon Handley 0:12 John Johnson, also known as the natural medium, that's his site. He's been on a pathway of the discovery of his own spiritual and personal awareness for many years. Tutoring is John's greatest passion, to work to support the expression and understanding of ourselves and to discover our own truth. John is also the tutor at the world famous Arthur Findlay College in London and has an the qualified spiritual healer. self development has always been a passion for John and he continues to use this in his teaching philosophies today. John, how you doing? Thanks for joining today.

John Johnson 0:47 Very well. Lovely to be with you and speak with you. So the converter?

Brandon Handley 0:51 Yeah, fantastic. So you and I connected through a mutual friend of ours, Deb Levine. And you know, she she's speaks to all of you loves you to death you and I connected not too long ago had a really nice conversation. And, and you came back anyways. Right? So one of the ways I like to start this off with John, is that you and I, we're vessels for spiritual energy, right? Creative, universal energy, call it whatever you'd like. There is a message that's coming through you that's going to reach one of our listeners today that can only be delivered through you in this way. What does that message today, John?

John Johnson 1:32 Well, no pressure on that one. I think one of the I think one of the big things about life is to make sure that we live truth and truly to ourself to do the things that feel right for us. That might not be right for everybody else. We're very, very, I suppose very hard on yourself, giving yourself the space to live truly to who and what we are. Because we always want to please other people and make sure a lot of people were happy or show that we're progressing. We're not standing still. So I think for me, that would be really trying to encourage anybody and everybody and also when I speak to other people, I always talk to myself, as to encourage, stay in your truth. Do the things that are right for you. Even if you're not really sure. Keep gon going. I think it's a really important thing to keep on going.

Brandon Handley 2:25 100% You know, it's funny, I just I just got done making a post to read. Got to know if you've ever watched Mrs. Maisel. Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Really great series on Amazon. And the finale. Just talks a little, a little bit about what you're saying there. Right. She's, Mrs. Mays was kind of hiding behind like these self imposed limitations, right, saying, Yes, I want this thing. But only if it happens in this way that I've got outlined for me, right. Which in this series is keeping her from her truth? Right? Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about like, well, you know, what, how you work with your clients and keeping them aligned with their truth and bypassing some of their self imposed limitations?

John Johnson 3:13 Yeah, I think I mean, the thing about human nature, I'm a big interest in the psychology of people. So why do we do what we do? Why do we not do the things blah, blah, blah. So for me to really start to understand people is to understand myself. So that's the start point, I need to understand John, and what he is and how he is before trying to help anybody else. So I think one of the things about human nature and us as individuals is that we love to have comfort and safety. So we always look for comfort, and we always want to have safety. But we also love familiarity. So if it's unfamiliar, we'd rather walk the same pathway, do the same thing that's painful, rather than try something that might be less painful, but the fear of doing something less painful, is more fearful. So what we end up keep back to the familiar again. So for me, one of the things about the development of the person, which is where the emphasis really lies, as first of all to find out where they really are, and their truth, as opposed to where they think, or what the wants the people around them to think is the truth. I mean, we all have the, it's called the masks of life. You know, we have the masks we put on to go to work, we've got the mask for the friends, we'll get the mask or the relation. And it's really about trying to take all those masks away. Because the question is always what is it you're so afraid of? You know, what, what is the fear? What is it that you think is so bad? There's going to be so wrong. There's going to be so disruptive for you just to be you. And it's amazing the stuff that we all have individually in our minds. What we're brought up to think about ourself, what we think our parents or peers expect of Is the demands of what makes you what makes you successful in the world? What kind of person do you have to be to have a good relationship a good job. There's so many, there's so much stuff that's put into us and programmed into us, that doesn't necessarily match who we are and what we are. And for me, it's about, it's like deciphering what's true and what's not true. And the hardest thing is that when you challenge people's realities, they start to recognize that that's not their reality, which is a really scary thing to happen. Because when you wake up to your actual reality, it's a very scary place to be because all the all the little bubbles start to pop around you because you thought you're that, in fact, you're told no, you're not. You thought this was important. But it turns out that it wasn't overly important. And you start to recognize the limitations that we've created for ourself. And, of course, we always want to blame other people and blame circumstances. But there's a great philosophy, which is that you know, that trauma and difficulties happen to everybody. But what we focus on is what happens to us rather than how we react to what happened to us. So, if something if somebody was a difficult parent, or we had somebody very dominant, then that was the trauma. But how do we react to that trauma? Do we make ourselves very small? And do we live our life walking on eggshells? Or do we actually stand up and recognize why this was happening? And my reaction was to make myself small. So then I can wake up to the reality and say, Well, I'm actually not smart, which means I don't need to hate, which means we'll actually I don't know what I want to do myself, because I've always been hating. So it sort of cracks open that shell of what we think we are into the reality of who we are, which is why a lot of times people don't necessarily respectfully, don't always do the work. Because it's the hard way. The easy way is just to hate within the clouds and the fluff of spirituality. And that the hard way is to sit back, sit down and really go into the depths of your own soul, and really look deeply at yourself and recognize the truth of what you are. And then the question is, obviously, what is truth? So it just keeps on coming? You know, it's like a snowball.

Brandon Handley 7:28 Yeah, no, no, definitely, definitely a lot in there. Right? I think that, you know, a line we use over here in the state side anyways, you know, and you may use it over, there's like, the devil, the devil, you know, is right, better than the one that you don't? Right, and so, so, so, and it really sounds like, you know, a lot of what you're talking about, too, is that people, you know, they have these stories built up, and like you're talking about once you kind of, you know, pop this bubble, or I think another analogy I've heard is House of Cards, right? You pull one of those cards out the whole thing tumbles down. And then the left, I gotta imagine reevaluating their story, right or the left, as you talked about, like, seeing all the masks in front of them versus on them, right, seeing for a moment that they've got all these masks in front of them, in terms of kind of helping people to challenge their reality. And John would jump right into this right. In terms of helping people, you know, challenge their reality, what are some tools? What are some ways that you like to help to do that?

John Johnson 8:40 I think one of the first things that I always do, I always want to, like, speak to the person get get a kind of feeling about where they are with themselves, because of some of these very, let's say somebody's very self destructive and very self critical. If you're going to challenge the reality very quickly, you know, you can, you can just push them over the edge of themself. So the first thing is always to be very conscious of where they are, and be very careful of how far down the rabbit hole you want to go before really trying to do the proper work. So for me, there's very simple practices, like you mentioned, there would have been earlier, when I remember even with Deb and people like that, there was a so there's such purity within them, they have this need to help and want people. And sometimes the thing that's getting in the Wii is never the ability of what they are, it's the person. So when you start to forget about the ability, somebody wants to be a doctor or nurse, a therapist, an intuitive worker, an energy worker, any of these kind of things. It's there for everybody because that's it's it's not even negotiable with its there the potential lies within the presence of the power, but as the person able to to release themselves as that person able to surrender to who they are. That's that's the struggle. Because the wonderful thing I have a phrase or seeing, which is, you know that when you develop the person, you will unlock the potential of the person. And what we do in today is that we try to give people tools to make them into something hoping that will get them to come to themself. But the actual process is the opposite. So I do and people come to me and say, I want to learn to do mediumship, or I want to learn to be more intuitive. The first thing I asked them was way.

And then they say, well, because, yeah, well, and they don't have an answer. Exactly. Always, because they haven't thought about why they want to do it. They're just busy trying to get somewhere, which is normal for I mean, a huge percentage of his portfolio did the same thing when I started. But then the question is, okay, so why do you want to do? Well, because I'm sensitive. And then I challenge, I'm sensitive and say, Okay, well show me somebody on the planet who's not sensitive. So that answer doesn't work. So what's the reason you want to do it? So what happens is you charge to challenge their belief, because belief is the foundation of the whole thing is truth. But the truth lies on the foundation of belief. Because if you come from a certain belief system in us install a belief in yourself in a certain way, as soon as you recognize belief is the one thing that you can't take off anybody. You can take everything off somebody, but you can't take the belief is something that's deeper than the essence of who they are. So to challenge the reality is to challenge the belief. So then I give them exercises and ask them questions like, so what would be the purpose of that? What would be the purpose of this? And when they gave me the purpose, they might say, well, I want to be rid of energy. And I want to work intuitively. And that's why and I say, but what do you want to do with it? Well, I want to be able to look into the future, and I want to be able to make predictions. And then I say, Okay, so tell me, why is that so important for you to do that. And what it means is they're having to dig deeper into the answers of the questions they don't want to ask themself. So it keeps it almost like you're, you're forcing them into the, into the space of the self to actually find out. And sometimes the answer comes where, well, I'm actually afraid of my own life, which is why I want to know what's happening. And it's like, well, is that the right reason to develop this then? So I'm not somebody who just yeah, I'm very good. There may be so I'm very, some very precise and critical in many ways towards my myself. But I am not somebody who wants to help people become the magician, or other I'm not interested in people becoming the showman if they are the showman, because that's what their ability presents, that's what they will become. But most people with integrity, have a self, like a self healing process where they just come home. And when they come home, what they felt they wanted to do might not be actually what they actually do. And I think that's the big difference when you awaken and ask the question. They actually feel I want to be an intuitive, I want to be this, I want to be that. But when they go through the whole process of development, at the end of it, they might say, I actually want to be a Chinese want to work in Chinese medicine, or I want to be a mature and you go great, perfect, I'm really happy for you. Because we don't need to have 300 million mediums on the planet. You know, it's not needed. We need good people who do the job, that rate for their soul with the express what's right for them. And the way that's right for them. That brings us back into the naturalness, the truth, and also the belief system. So it keeps challenging by asking certain questions, to try and get them into that space of what is the reality of belief. Because I think if you have the reality of your own belief, and you're honest about it, that opens opens all the doors for you. And then ability presents itself.

Brandon Handley 14:07 Now, all of that, right? So, you know, if we if we started off, right, it's really just a matter of I think he even said at the beginning, where are they? You know, in this journey? Where are they in this journey to find out the truth of who they are? And, and, you know, like, you're saying, we can all we can all do? I don't know, I don't know if listen, I think we all have the capability like a saint, do any of it, be a doctor, be a lawyer, do whatever you want to do. But the real question is, why do you want to do that? Right? And I love the lines, that potential lies within the presence of the power right? And being able to surrender to who they actually are right within them. Asking those deeper questions that we're just not asking those questions, right. It's like, oh, well, nothing wrong, like so you know, I had an interaction with this thing and that person I want to go to Do that. Okay. Why? Yeah. Why? Right? Why? Why? You know? And if they don't answer that question immediately, and this is what I found for myself, Johnny, and this, probably what you've seen too is like, you know, they go and they go, and they do the thing. And they realize that that's not for them. Absolutely. Right. Yeah, but it could and it sounds like your journey, right? LED you like, hey, I want to go to the same note leads me over here. Leads me over here. Leads me over here. And I want to like, you know, the idea of, hey, I don't want to work with somebody that's just doing this. From like, a magician and showmanship state, right? Did I capture that correctly? Like, you know, you want somebody that people that you'd like to work with, or you know, really getting deep, this this coming home thing, when you're talking about coming home, you don't mean coming home to get their, their their tea? On the counter, you're talking about coming home to this the truth of who they are, right. And I can't remember whether or not I think when we had this conversation before, and when I first started on my journey, a big piece of it. John was like, just beginning, you know where you are. Right? Begin where you are, start with that thing that you think you want to do. And I felt empowered, right? Like, the liberated, right, this expressing the truth of who I was, I had no idea what exactly it was, I was expressing. But I was feeling a greatness. And when I say a greatness, I'm not talking about like, I'm number one, I felt filled with something. Right. And I would go ask other people out, so what's it like for you to step into your greatness? And they would like, Whoa, there's nothing great about me. And I think that what you're trying to show these people, there's something great about everybody. Yep. Right. So so, you know, when when when they start doing this journey, John, when they start recognize they start doing a self healing and expressing the truth of who they are? What are some of the, what is some of that look like? I'm trying to, you know, because I guess what I would say, is that part of the awakening process? I'm not sure if that's what you would say to like, what are some of the symptoms as a turret? Terrible word for symptoms? Like, what are some of the signs that, that they're totally holding themselves? Or what are some of you know, people say, John, I'm feeling like this and your and your responses, like, oh, okay, you're on the path, you you've clicked the next click in the ratchet or whatever.

John Johnson 17:31 Yeah, I think one of the things about development when you, I think the moment of waking up to who you really are, is this, as I said earlier, it's a scary part to bust all those reality bubbles, you wake up from who you think you are, to who you actually are. And the thing about it is, it's really, it's quite a scary transition for many people. But at the same time, if you can embrace the change, will you start to recognize that one of the things that's very human and as that we carry so much baggage, of emotions, demands expectation, main chatter the monkey brain, when you actually notice how much energy that costs you to live in a way that's not right for you, but you keep doing it anyway, when you start to notice that you have more energy all of a sudden, because you've made small changes in your thinking or small changes in your actions, or you start to respect yourself a little bit more than you notice, all of a sudden, you have more time, you have more energy, then you're already showing that you're starting to wake up to the truth and reality of what you actually need in your life as opposed to what you have been doing. The one that will always is really hard. There's the thing about the challenge of this kind of wakening up to yourself spiritually, it also means that the creation of what you have around you always starts to flip and change, which is the scary part. So when, for example, I remember when I started to be true to my own self, and started to really feel and do the things that felt right with me, I started to have problems in relationships, friends, because I wasn't being what they always wanted me to be. And I started to go women, this is your problem between you and them. So you deal with it. And I was always the person, man, okay, you know, again, and try and find an answer and solution and shine. And because I said, Wait a minute, that's not my job, you've created the problem between each other. So suck it up, and go and solve it. And I'm just gonna stand here as you need me, I'll be here. But this is not my this is not my battle. And what you find there's those people then call you selfish. Because you're selfish because you don't care because and what's happening in the cycle in a psychological sense is that you're owning your own power. You're starting to do what feels right for you. But they are now having to take responsibilities that they never took before because you always took their responsibility. So you would solve that problem, which means they never had to deal with it. And all of a sudden, you see new suck up, not my problem. And you're the bad one. Because now they need to think for themselves. No, they need to start to do that. So one of the big things for me, when I see people that start to kind of wake up to the space is that they start to notice that there's almost like the war drum starts to rumble around the family in the ruins relationships. And it's like, I thought that was a good friend of mine. But actually, when I see the way they treat me in what they do, I'm not sure they actually aren't a good friend is what I thought they were. And that person over there who I never thought was a good friend is actually more honest and truthful with me than anybody else. So your reality snaps and changes that you start to notice the reality of who you are. And then you know, you're starting to be in the right space, because then you're living truthfully to what's true and important for you. And you're no longer pleasing, satisfying, or taking on responsibilities that were not yours to start with. So I think that's a really big sign to look for. When you notice that the world starts blaming you for being selfish, you're probably doing something right.

Brandon Handley 21:09 Well, you're right. And I totally agree. Only because I agree. And I've seen it happen for me anyways, especially especially in the struggle in the beginning, right, where you draw on this journey. And this is kind of that line, what you know, what are the things that are no longer serving you? Right? Yep. And my experience was that those things dropped away on their own, like effortlessly, right? Drinking, for example. It was like, Oh, I don't this please. Like, there's no, no reason for me to keep doing this. As a matter of fact, if I keep doing this, it's like, you know, there's all those No, good, that's coming of it. And then when I stopped drinking, like, here's all the people that stopped wanting to hang out, right? Like, why why? Why did you quit drinking? I was like, Well, why don't you? Why would I need to explain myself? That doesn't even make any sense. Right? Because and because other people are curious, because they want to do it to write but they can't, they haven't gotten to this space. And then and then this other area that you're talking about, like, I'm not going to do this for you anymore. Because you really need to be able to do that on your own or like, you know, I have, my life is valuable, too. So I'm going to actually be responsible for mine, you'd be responsible for years, right? And being called selfish, or, you know, spending too much time on yourself type of thing like, well, I don't know. And, John, I think it's very important to do things for others and give and be of service. Yeah. But one of the people that you're here to be of service to more than anybody else in the world is is you

John Johnson 22:52 can't serve and look after yourself, then you're only you're only going to sacrifice, sacrifice your own self to help everybody else be happy. And the thing about that is that when you create the pattern of I'm going to make this person happy, so I can be happy. That never works. Because they end up becoming so happy that they got on relief and achieve and you're sitting back going, Oh, what about me. And you see this person a lot in relationships with people. So they meet somebody, and they want to be put on the happy go lucky, I'm crazy. I can sing. I love karaoke, I like to have a good drink. And they want to be something to be impressed to be liked. And after a few months, when they start to calm down and relationship starts to become a bit more normal. They go, I don't really feel like going out and drinking. I'm not really all that bothered. And the person who they've just met says, Yeah, but when I met you, you are crazy and wild. And you did this. And they go, yeah. And honestly, the answer is, but that wasn't me, I was trying to make you like me or impress you or so it's a very, very difficult thing. But that goes through like the wheel and the pattern, where every time they meet somebody, they've got to impress them to be liked. And then when they become themself, which is maybe more passive or introvert or quiet, or they're maybe just normal, whatever normal is, then the person they're with, they get bored because they don't see the interaction that they attracted to them to begin with. And the person who does it to the other person ends up on their own again, and they never understand my people leave me because, you know, help that person to come stronger. I help them to become more confident I help them to be successful. And when they where they left me, it's like, okay, so why would you help them so much to do something they needed to do themselves? And it's okay to say to help other people, but that's that's what we're here for. There's a human kind of human nature, we're here to help and support each other. But there also has to be some teams doing nothing, as the support has not always do something. Like don't always have the answer because sometimes the person needs to come with the answer, because if you always give the answer then they're not doing the work for it. So you're Trying to get the balance between being of service and being there. But also respect your own self, give the space for other people's growth, but give yourself the space for your own growth. And hopefully you meet in the middle somewhere. And I think that's the hardest thing for is to have that balance

Brandon Handley 25:16 100% spent, you know, especially in kind of any relationship, right, you can see the you can and here's the other thing on that, too, John, like you're talking about? If we come with an answer, we call it an answer to the question from our own perspective, and when the person that we're trying to help is able to come up with with their own answer, from their own perspective, chances are, it's actually going to be a different answer than than we would have given. But it solves the same problem, right? And it's also that much more effective for that person, because they're like, oh, wow, I can answer this stuff on my own. I don't need you to be answering my stuff for me. And, and a lot of times, I think, just when you're asking these people, these next level questions, so like, oh, wow, thank you for asking me these questions and challenging me a little bit and making me dig a little deeper to realize that they actually have the resources that they already need within them to move forward. Yeah, I

John Johnson 26:19 think the thing is, when when some of the things that don't answer, they're going to trust and believe in that answer, because it was their own. And even with me, when I do any teaching or workshops, I actually tell the people who come on courses, and I'm going to ask you more questions than you asked me. And normally, it's always the teacher is the one who tells the answers and tells of the who is going to be. But I do the opposite. Because if somebody says to me, Well, I have a problem with us. What do you think then I say, Well, what do you think? And they go by? I don't know, I'm asking you. And I go, Yeah, but I want you to come and tell me what's happening rather than me just I can give you an answer every day. But it doesn't mean it's the right answer. I want you to come and tell me what you discovered. And then I'll give you something because the developments always about FAA choose to do it myself. And this is again, a really important thing with a lot of the work that I do. When somebody has success in some of the lands on the money, the just to do something that's so important, so powerful, such a transformation. I want them to wake up and recognize the that the work. Other one waking up and saying, Oh, John, thanks so much, because you helped me that I want them to give themselves the credit for the work that they did. Because they found the answer, though, I may have been an instigator to shove them and put them in the eye to get them where they want to go. But they're the ones that can wake up and say to their friends and family, I made this choice. And I am happy because I feel happier now than I've ever done. Rather than saying, I made this choice, because John told me it'd be good for me. And it worked out well. Because it's not, it's not about that. It's about encouraging you to find that truth of you by asking you the questions you don't want to. And then when you get the answer, and it works for you, you can be proud of yourself. And if you get the answer that doesn't work for you, then you have to take responsibility, that that doesn't work. But what did you learn from it? What can you do the next day, because we have this tradition within spirituality, especially if you're doing some sort of leadership bar. That, you know, we're meant to have all the answers. And I mean, I've got hard enough time living my own life without trying to lead anybody else's life. So we've got to be able to see the two sides of it, you can't be the hero for everybody, without also been the developer. So if you're going to be somebody who's going to tell people how to live their life, and it goes great, and they get praise, you've also got to take the problem, when it doesn't go well. You can't have only the praise and just have the other stuff. So that's why the, for me, the best thing is always when you have advice from anybody, as they should not be telling you how to live your life and what to do. They should be encouraging you to look at opportunities, but ultimately you decide what happens because you live and die by the sword. And that's so lifers. And that for me is so important because today we have everywhere in the world. But today there's more about thinking you have an insight into something or because you're even with your own development. I mean, you've done a lot of work with your own self. So people may have this trust in you that you might have an answer that goes beyond their perception. But at the same time, if it goes beyond their perception, they're not going to get it anyway. So they might as well answer their own question and come to the truth where they are. And not because we're bigger than each other. It's just because we have different pathways of understandings. So I would rather somebody wakes up and says, This is my understanding. This tool is right for me and I can see Wow, well done. Congratulations. You know you did so well be proud of yourself. Rather than I get the praise when in fact that's not my life to be praised. That's they need to have that period of of themselves. And that love of themselves, and really be in contact with that spark of divinity, to recognize the power, the power that created it. And the power that creates has the power to heal. The power that creates has the power to move. It's all there. We just got to tap in and believe in it. So I think it's a really important thing that people get the get the answers themselves with encouragement, the end of the day, their answers the most powerful answer. Yep.

Brandon Handley 30:24 Yeah, no. Right. And I think the, the, the line that I use on that most of the time is, you're both the gift and the giver, right? And you give that gift to yourself, and you're able to give it a and it just kind of replenishes itself. Right. And to your point, right, certainly been in position where people may think that I have an answer for their question or their quandary. But I got to tell them, No, I, this isn't a This isn't my area of expertise, right? I don't know what it is that you're looking at, here's what it seems like to me. You know, I'm happy to point you in like a direction that I might go in and seek an answer for yourself. Right. And, and that's been very effective. And they come back supercharged, they come back very excited. This is what I found it oh my god, this is my experience. So helping people to empower themselves sounds like you kind of like what's your what's your about? Now, John? John, I think one of the things we didn't really even dig into much, you know, we talk a little bit about your background, you you're a tutor, your tutor of what

John Johnson 31:30 I call it, the the intuitive arts. I, when I started it was always called, you know, you call yourself a medium and blah, blah, blah. But for me, it's just too narrow. To be called a medium. If you look up the word medium, now actually says it's that's the medium between two things. So I actually talk more about the intuitive arts. So for me, it's a lot about everybody has an intuitive art, whether you draw paint, sing, dance, you know, rate speak, there's something intuitive about the art of your expression, then for me, the expression of communication and self development is that intuitive art, you learn to be in contact with the intuitive power, you learn to trust yourself, which is the thing that everybody wants is to trust themselves and believe in themselves. And, for me, it's about trying to knock through all the stuff that stops us getting in contact with that intuitive ability. So that's why it becomes an art of intuition. It's an art of expression, rather than it's something you need to become a master of, and you need to have a job and you have to become because you're sensitive you need to accompany. It's not that journey. If that's the journey for you, then that's what it will become. But the journey is really the intuitive arcs of unfolding this intuitive ability that, again, we don't, we don't give ourselves the credit of how intelligent we are within the soul. Very simply, we're born into the world, we have this sense of awareness. And by the time we get to the age of 567, we're taught to think and analyze, and that purity of who we are, it's still there, we've just lost contact with it. So when we get older, and hopefully a little bit wiser, then we start to give ourselves permission to tap back into that intuitive gift that's already there. And that's why even I don't even like like the word gifts, because it's not actually a gift. It's it's sort of part of the package. It's like, it's like buying a computer without a hard drive. You know, it doesn't happen you buy a computer, the hard drive that comes with a hard drive, because that's what the computer needs. So for me, the ability of awareness is already packaged within the souls experience. And you're just trying to get back in touch with that intuitive art. So that's why for me, I'd rather see tutor of intuitive arts or tutor of self development, discovery, intuitive arts, that kind of areas more with, I think, my interests mostly lace. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 33:52 Awesome. And so when somebody comes to for kind of expression of these arts, and, you know, it sounds like you're almost willing to let them go, if you realize it's not a fit to write, he was like, hey, you know, let's, let's, let's why you want to be here. So who do you feel is like the best fit for what you have to offer?

John Johnson 34:18 I don't think there is a Pacific that, for me, there's no specific thing or checklist because it's purely if somebody feels drawn to a weekend to trust themselves, or they have experiences of unawareness, which they're not sure real, they want to trust or energetically wise. All we're actually doing is we're giving ourselves permission to find out what we can find out about it. Very often we hear stories, as I said about some of these supercenter sensitive and oversensitive. Well, I don't believe in oversensitive people. I believe in people who are very sensitive who are not in control of their sensitivity. They don't understand that which is why they We come oversensitive or you cry all the time, and you get affected by everything. And you know, you're, it's only because we're not in control of what they're aware of. It's not because they're more sensitive than anybody else. And then you have other people on the spectrum who are like the sensitivity of a piece of woods, who want to have more sensitivity. And it's like, well, you know that you are sensitive, you're not allowing yourself so what are you afraid of? What's the what is it? You're not allowing yourself to be vulnerable to with yourself? What is it you're afraid? What do you think's going to happen? So it's, there's no, there's no, there's no right or wrong. And it's also what I teach. When I say to people, I don't really have we need to categorize people with beginners, intermediate and advanced, have levels of experience. But at the same time, we can have somebody with no experience who can actually trust themselves and do more of a better experience than somebody who has lots of experience. Because sometimes Knowledge is power. But some things knowledge destroys the naturalness. So there's no real. But again, it's just, I think it's just one of those areas where if you feel drawn to discover, then just be open to see what's there. And then it will actually draw you forward. And its own way that way that needs to be for yourself. So there's no right and wrong, there's no good or bad, nobody's better than anybody else. Nobody can and nobody can, it's really just allowing yourself to be honest. And just find out what you can find out from yourself about yourself, that that will actually unleash the intuitive ability.

Brandon Handley 36:32 I love that have the idea to write have, you know, do you not overly sensitive, everybody's pretty much got the same amount of sensitivities, it's how you respond to those sensitivities. And where would you like to be alone that or if you're okay, crying all the time, be okay to cry all the time. Like, that's a great release anyways, you know, but, but realize that that is your choice, right? And realize that if you want to, you know, kind of come along somewhere in that and same way, vice versa. Right, I would say a more along the vice versa, side of, you know, not feeling right, but also understanding that, like, you know, I, I have the capacity and capability to feel in a greater sense. What am I afraid of? I don't know, I'm not doing that with you today, though. The, the the other piece to that you'd mentioned is and I think this is really powerful. And it's the idea that a beginner can actually, in the beginning, have more success, quote, unquote, success in an endeavor than somebody who's had the experience, primarily because they haven't. They don't know what the theoretical limitations are. Absolutely. Right. They don't know what they don't know. Well, you know, last time I did this, or my previous experiences are the people that I work with have influenced these experiences. And so I believe that these, these are the ceilings, these are the thresholds. And so I guess that that also points to the idea of always trying to have a beginner's mind. Yeah,

John Johnson 38:18 I mean, the thing is, there's no limitations, no boundaries, other than the ones we create. And the thing about it is that this is why for me, I always have this, this feeling of responsibility, because of what I do is that I know, for a fact, that whatever I do with somebody who is very fresh, very new, very much the I don't believe in a beginner, but somebody who we put unquote, beginner, what I tell them and what I advise them, and what I tried to help and support them to do will become the foundation of what they do for the rest of your life, pretty much. So when somebody has a foundation, which is I'm very down to earth, but there will things so when when somebody has a foundation, which is like bells and fluffy clouds and purple things and unicorns and these lovely things, if it's that's the foundation, where there's no there's no essence of life and strengthen it, as they develop after 234 years, and they try to get more deeper in contact with what they're doing. They have to actually break all those habits to try and learn the truth of the truth of the habit. So, if that's why I've said so many times that the teacher or the influencer has so much responsibility, because what I tell you or what I influence you to discover, will become the foundation of what you do. So that's why as somebody who's new, there a clean slate, they don't know anything. And when I teach normally people sometimes they call me the unknown teacher. Because I don't actually tell them how to do things. I try and encourage them to undo things because when You undo it, and you actually allow the natural expression, nobody needs to teach you. Something just has to keep you within reality of what your sensitivity is trying to do. And that will naturally move. My job is to match the movement of them. It's not me to tell them to do what I do, because then I'm making a clone of myself. So it's very much about the person who's new. They're so easily influenced because they believe you because you are the teacher, the instructor, and I often challenge them and say, okay, so what would be the simplest way to do this? And they say, Well, I don't know, I need to open a door, and you need to meditate for half an hour and a half to put on a blue light. And after we had a crystal and have to do nicely, okay, so let's start. And they do it. Or they do something and I see, well, you never put a crystal on, you never made the seasons, and you never, you never put a light on and lay down for half an hour. But you did it. So what does that tell you? And then you see them going, oh, man, yes, all that stuff I think I need to do, I don't actually need to do but that scares me. Because I like the safety and the comfort of doing it. Yeah, but you don't have to do it. You've just proven yourself, you've done. So now is your choice. Do you want to do that? Or do you want to just go with what happened? Because that was natural for you to do. So the challenge is constantly trying to not teach them anything, but give them the space to grow and learn. So it's, it's an interesting journey.

Brandon Handley 41:23 No doubt, no doubt. And you know, sounds, I understand that you're, you're very good at what you do. Right. So, you know, Donna, Deb again, you know, refers to you and regard you very highly. And so super excited that we got the connection here. You said two to four years in the beginning there, John, you mean, I can't do this in eight weeks?

John Johnson 41:49 Well, depends how much money you have. It's, it's most people, when we're really really genuinely honest about the process of development unfoldment, trusting that which is insane as most people that again, depends on on how they're taught to do it. Some people will maybe do four or five, six years before they really start to get into that space. Now, it's a very simple reason. Because from your age of 4567 years old, up until whatever age you are today, so let's say you're 4045, you've been thinking and analyzing for 38 years. And for you to drop the analytical mind, but still use it for you to drop your knowledge but still rely on and for you to get in contact with the space that you've you've tried to shove away and ignore, it's not going to happen in one year when you've been ignoring it for 39. So it's just a time of awakening. And some people go faster than others. Some people are very much in contact, but they just need to understand that more. So varies for many different people. But I mean, even for me, I didn't do anything in any professional capacity for the first six years or so. And I was training really, really hard and regular. But I never felt it was granted to do something for somebody else when I wasn't fully comfortable doing it for my own self. So

Brandon Handley 43:17 it makes a lot of sense. Right. And I would have to say that, you know, the parallels, and is in line with what I've seen so far, just in a nice conversations kind of what's that growth trajectory? And I'll bring it up and just say, you know, that it actually it takes real time, you know, the two to four months is, it's yes, it's real time, but in the context of personal, you know, personal development. Yeah, that's kind of like a blink of an eye. Right. And there's so much to what you're saying there's so much to kind of undo there's so much baggage that like, we're just not willing to let go of just yet. Right? Like, I'll leave this one behind job, but I'm carrying the rest for now. And, you know, I'm gonna keep the rest for the rest of next year. Maybe I'll drop two bags. Right? Yeah. I get it, I get it. So, John, I got I got a little section here that I like to call. It's kind of like spiritual speed dating. Right? Some ways to it in today's spiritual speed data, like you know is John is John for me. And so, spiritual Bachelor Number one, you know, we talked about fear a lot. And I think that we talked about, you know, who what, what would you say that we're all afraid of,

John Johnson 44:36 they're afraid of their own their own personal power. Not afraid of being too good. They're afraid of being everything they are. And the I think the biggest fear mostly when you really connect with people who really genuinely have the heart, the compassion, the love to serve and help other people. But a lot of the times the fears of themselves about said being too powerful being too good is trusting themselves too much because they're afraid their ego is going to come. They're afraid that people are going to, you know, they're going to become something like an animal in disguise. And I think that's, that's the biggest thing. And in combination with that is vulnerability. And vulnerability is seen as a negative thing. And the fear of being vulnerable is why we stopped being childish and be crazy and dance around. I mean, a senior, you've seen a little clip of you dancing around in the restaurant, and I was thinking, Yeah, go for it, Brendan have a good time. vulnerability, you're just expressing your craziness and your vulnerability, you're not thinking, you know. And vulnerability actually, is the biggest thing we can give ourselves, the biggest strength is actually to be vulnerable is to be beautiful. So this is a very powerful thing. So to be in your power, but be vulnerable to your own power. I think that's the biggest gap.

Brandon Handley 45:50 Yeah, definitely a paradox there. I think that, you know, until you experience it, or you go through it a couple of times, you're not going to understand it. And so definitely, definitely powerful. I agree. I agree with that. Who do? What is our greatest distraction?

John Johnson 46:10 I would say, well, the easy answer is the mind. I think our biggest distraction is the we give so much power to the mind. If we give ourselves the permission to be more aware, we wouldn't be so restricted. So I think that I think the mind is the biggest distraction. There's a wonderful quote, which I would love to tell you what it is exactly word for word, and who said it, but right now my brain freezes up. But it's along the lines of, we've created a society which honors the honors of the mind and forgets the soul. And you know, you know, the one I'm talking about, that is such a, such a true powerful thing that we give so much power to the mind. And the thing is, respectfully, the mind does stupid, the mind doesn't know what he's gonna do is waiting for impulse. So we're giving power to something that doesn't know the best for ourself. And then we the the main just flips us all the time, because we give power to something which is actually the passenger is not the driver. So for me, I think the biggest influence we have as our own natural mate, I would say. So

Brandon Handley 47:17 how do we avoid that distraction,

John Johnson 47:21 but a bucket of water is always a good place to start. Think it's again, I think it's about just being able to break away from the break away from the things that we think we are and the world we're in. I mean, even just taking little sabbaticals, taking a little time off, I mean, that these silent meditation retreat, silent retreats, just something that gives us a break from ourself, and from the environment that we live in and just pulling us away, give us a space just to reflect and just be, because then that space, hopefully we connect with a reality and our truth. And that hopefully will help us wake up that the hard thing is that, even like COVID, obviously, is a really good example where we all get stuck in a sort of teamwork. And we all make choices and decisions that say, I'm not going to go back and do that anymore. And that wasn't good for me. And now we've had the rest that recognize I was working too much. And slowly the water starts to turn, how many of us are going back into the old routine, and many of us are staying true to what we've discovered. So that's what I mean by the, the influence of what we think in demand, because it's what we think we need to do. I think I need to go and work 100 hours again a week. But we're proved that I don't have to do that. But I'm back doing it again, because my main thinks that's important. So I think that's a big kind of paradox.

Brandon Handley 48:41 Yeah, no, no, 100% I appreciate that. Well, John, thank you so much for being on and hanging out today. You know, if spiritual listener decides that you are the next spiritual date, where should they go and find out more about you?

John Johnson 48:56 And well, the easiest thing is there are very kind of basic website up to I'm not a big social media fan, although I am. I'm I'm trying to allow myself to become a little bit more accessible and available. So these this thing is the website, which is www dot shooter, John johnson.com. And Instagram, it's the natural medium. So the underscore natural underscore medium. So that's, that's probably the two places that I'm more actively aware that as I said, I'm Deb was one of the one of the people obviously contacted us. She's been at me for a long time to say, Come on, you have to tell people you need and I'm going, Oh, God, I don't want to tell people because it's not it's not my thing. I'm happy to do the work I do and I'm happy to do what I do. But I'm just throwing myself out there as Yeah, it's a bit awkward. My lack of vulnerability to that. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 49:51 there you go. There you go. You know, you're practicing what you preach. Making yourself uncomfortable. You know, leave leaving leave In the devil, you know,

John Johnson 50:01 yep. Keep on walking, you know, that's it. Keep going.

Brandon Handley 50:06 I got it. Well, John, thanks again so much for being on today.

John Johnson 50:09 Thanks for inviting me and it's been great talking to you, and wish you a lovely day and your listeners. I

Intro Guy 50:15 really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. Stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove.co You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual dope, and Instagram and spiritual underscore go. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email Brandon at spiritual dove.co And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This concludes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don't forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition

Transcribed by https://otter.ai