Spirit of the Deal

Brandon Handley 0:00 4321 Hey, there's spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here. I don't know why I always introduce myself. The host is never gonna change. I'm spiritual dope podcast and I'm on with Kiko. Ellsworth Kiko,

Unknown Speaker 0:15 you know,

Brandon Handley 0:15 has a has a great story, spent some time in Hollywood, then, you know, transitioning, we were just talking about, like, you know, metamorphosizing into this kind of goop into butterfly mode. But you know, Kiko for the people that aren't familiar with you like, what do you like to tell them? Right? Where are you from? What do you about and you know, what's happening with you?

Kiko Ellsworth 0:39 Well, thank you for having me. And I want to say, blessings and love and peace, to all of my brothers and sisters, I love you. And I think that's the most important thing that I want to communicate, probably throughout this entire podcast, write that in there. And I truly do mean that. So, you know, I think, you know, kind of like, just really starting off, we, you know, I think we're all just born with a purpose, and we forget what it is, I think that's a part of the game. And a part of the game is to remember, and just a part of my, my story was to had to do with Hollywood and forgetting and kind of getting caught up in that and learning the tools and the power of that sort of medium. And how it can be used for anything, whether it be good or negativity, or it can be used for anything. And so I've just basically found my way to using it for good. Which brings me here to you, brother.

Brandon Handley 1:38 There you go. There you go. I love I love the idea that we can, you know, it's just a couple people connecting, right. And, you know, that's, that's all we're really doing. And we just share kind of a, you know, shared spiritual sense of being right, whatever that means. But so, the, I like to open these up with the whole idea that whoever's listening to this podcast today, whoever we're contacting today, they're gonna hear some that can only come from spear from, you know, the universe, through you to them today, like what is that message, you know, what's coming through you to that person today.

Kiko Ellsworth 2:22 That's beautiful, as beautiful. You know, what's coming through is for us to, you know, as you're listening to this,

I think we forget how beautifully made that we are. And we kind of think that we're these humans, and that we're these bodies, and that we're these titles and jobs, and, you know, and we get all uptight and shit and we perform for people, and we put on these masks and say these things and, you know, but at the end of the day, I think it's, it's really about, I don't want to say the the superficial way. So I'm gonna go underneath it is really about really, you, you knew your soul, your swagger, your mojo, your style, how you your opinion, your voice, your spin on things, you know, because nothing's new under the sun, and they're there. No, one's really different, really, in the sense really, except in how you do what you do. And that's just your, that's yours, your soul, your swagger your, how you go about life, and that sort of spirit that wants to express itself through you. And so, you know, we become very unique if we, if you do you if I do mean if you know, Brandon, you do you and but if we got to get caught up in the, you know, the mainstream of life and pleasing or playing the larger game instead of going within, then we kind of missed the mark. We kind of what I like to say we sell our soul, you know, and I don't think selling our souls necessarily like signing this contract with a devil and nothing like that. I think selling our soul happens in these little tiny micro ways every single day. These little ways that you're not freaking true to yourself, these little ways where you just not speaking your truth, these little ways where you just don't take the time to see what's really there for you. You ignore your intuition. You're ignoring what you know you're supposed to be doing. You're paying attention Are you giving too much attention and credence to the fears that are stopping you from doing what the EFF you are supposed to be doing in your life? You know,

Unknown Speaker 5:10 I love it.

Brandon Handley 5:11 Right? the you know, the the vision I've got when you're kind of talking like that it's, you know, you're already a star like, you know, blazing star out there. And like, you know, each time you're not being your story self, you're just kind of losing Stardust, right? You're diminishing yourself and you just kind of become a decrepit, right. You're not you're not being true to who you are. And, man, it's the worst, right? I can still remember, I still remember way back in the day, some some warehouse parties. And I still remember these two girls dancing, right? And I could show you my dance, I was doing like little, little white guy up on the corner, just kind of like dancing like hiding in the shadows. Right. And I but like, I was really just kind of pulled into myself and I wasn't, you know, just pulled into myself. And I was tight. And I was I wanted to dance. But you know, I wasn't sure that I was doing it. Right. Maybe people would see me and then I saw these, like two girls out there. Right. And, and, you know, they're, you know, back in the day, like those big baggy, like party people clothes, right, like his big old clothes, and just like whatever. And, you know, they're just just playing in their arms out just like taking all this space. I was like, that's so like, it's a straight up, just letting the energy flow through them. And being all of who they were, they did not give a fuck, right? They didn't care. And, you know, I was so inspired like, by by those two girls, it's like, just letting it all just energy out. And I was like, from there on out. Right, like so, you know, like, you're saying like little pieces that you're not giving into right, that you're that you're ignoring are literally diminishing, you and who you are.

Kiko Ellsworth 6:56 Yeah, and that's like, you know, it doesn't just, you know, I'm glad you brought that example, because I have some of those images. Like my very first girlfriend, I remember going to the club with her back in the day when I was like 15. And I remember getting on the dance floor, and I was that guy that you were taught that you were as well. And she was that that girl that you talked about that you saw. And she was out there. And she I just remember her hair going all over the place. And she was just doing she was taking up all the space. And I was like, whoa. And you know, I was inspired and also intimidated at the same time. And, but I never forgot that, you know, and, you know, it's it's a, it takes, it takes practice. It's interesting, because it's like, you don't need to do anything to be you because you're already you. And at the same time, it takes practice, in a sense, shaking off and creating the space that you need in this world. So you can actually be free to be you, we have to create the space, we have to exercise our muscles, we have to exercise our expression, our voice. And if we don't give it the attention and exercise and practice that it needs, when we call upon it, we're gonna get out there on the dance floor and be like, I want to dance and I know I can but like, I'm kind of like, you know, kind of like, I don't know, I haven't been practicing and will be just out of shape. That's right. Every every, I'll just say like, every, every every like, you know, as we talk, like, every moment is a moment to practice being you don't have a word. Of course, I can just talk to you like this. And I can just shoot words out of my mouth. And I can just talk and talk and talk and that's fine. Or we can talk and we can feel the word and be present with who we're being what we're saying, present to the vibration of the words coming out. You know, and this just like, practicing taking up that space in our communication, and there's so many ways to just play being you. Well, I

Brandon Handley 9:06 mean, look, I mean, I would relate it back to dance. So it's just another dance, right? Just another. I like it, I liken it to double dutch too, right? Like always, because you know, you got the two ropes going, right? You got the two ropes going,

Unknown Speaker 9:21 Yeah, and you've got to get in that

Brandon Handley 9:22 rhythm. And you've got to do you've got to jump in the middle there, right. And if you mess that up, you're getting hit by one of those rows. But when you do it and you hit it, you know, you're just having fun, you're just dancing in the middle there. And you're going all around but the same thing with you and I had a conversation and a conversation that you're present for, right? There's a there's, you can feel it. Right. And and that's that's a lot of how I liken it but I also understand too that you know, you're into martial arts or you know, you're a yoga teacher Kundalini, and all of these things, you know, they kind of all do this same thing. I mean, it correct me if I'm wrong, like Talk to me about how you see maybe martial arts playing a similar role as dancer or being present in that space. I'd love to hear that.

Kiko Ellsworth 10:09 Yes, yes, it's interesting, you bring that up, because I think that you're totally on point with that. And that's, that's exactly what my philosophy is. Because I don't, I don't see myself as an actor, or even a martial artist, or this or that, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I see myself as a creator, and I express myself in these different ways. And I allow myself to express myself through the art of acting, or through the art of martial arts, or through the art of dance, or through the art. And, you know, for me, my, you know, my job, my responsibility is to try to find as many ways as I can to authentically express my smile my soul in a way that it wants to express itself, it might not want to express itself, and I don't want to paint right now, I'm not looking for that. Or this, you know, my head right now. It's like, it's the drum, it's my, maybe it's not the guitar just yet. I'm not ready for that, or whatever the case may be. But for right now is, you know, for me to look in the way that's most true for me, you know, how, how, what feels right for me to express myself right now? And am I allowing that to flow? Or am I like, getting caught in Am I am I blocking that energy from, you know, letting it express itself, because as far as I'm concerned, man, it's like spirit just wants to express itself as much as it can through you. As much as it can through me in through all of our brothers and sisters. And if you just do your thing, Brandon, if I just do my thing if I just because it's there's so much work to do over here. For me, I can't I can't worry about your work, because I got so much work over here to do you know, and if it's like, if we're both doing our work, then it's something beautiful can happen in between the interaction between, you know, souls like you and me, man. So I appreciate it.

Brandon Handley 12:10 And I love it. As to Pete waitley, definitely one piece in here, right? How did you come to find yourself as a creator? Right? How did you when, when do you feel like you accepted that moniker for yourself? And then what, uh, you know, how would you state yourself as a creator, like, as a spirit flowing through you? You know, I'd love to hear kind of what your take is on that.

Kiko Ellsworth 12:35 I think that over the years, I've been calling myself so many things, and they've all been inaccurate.

Brandon Handley 12:43 Okay, so I bring that up, though, because I mean, we're creators of our own lives, right? And, and the sooner that we accept that, the sooner we can get to creating our own lives, right. And like, you were saying, you know, letting I love to like you, when you were talking about blocking spirit or not letting spirit kind of flow directly through you, you put your hand to your head, right? And that's, that's what happens, right? When, when we're, when we're kind of and have this conversation last night with a coach. When we're paying attention to ego, we're using our head, right, and there's, there's kind of like, this is blockage, right? But then like when we're just fully accept, and you brought your hand down a little bit, like, you know, kind of, we're full of expressing spirit, like, it's kind of flowing down through you out through your heart, and like, you know, you open up your arms a little bit too much. It's like, it's just coming through, like, a tsunami.

Kiko Ellsworth 13:36 Yeah, I think that's interesting. You picked up on that? Yeah. Because it's, it was totally unconscious. But I think that that's exactly accurate. When you if you were to, like, unpack what's going on that when we when we stopped flowing, it's, it's, it's this, that stopping the flow is our head. And it's also we're stopping the flow of this energy of seeing of the being, and we're this totally stopping and then but when we allow it, to have its way with us, man, man, just just that, that fun happens, you know, and so I think with with regards to like, accepting myself as a creator, you know, um, you know, I think the the frustration of like, what do I call myself? What do I call myself? am, I'm an actor, I'm a, I'm a director, I'm a teacher, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this and I'm like, I'm like, Damn, I was like, What? I don't know. And just changed like, hundreds of times. And, you know, I think just to keep it simple and truthful is like, at the end of the day, like, you know what, I'm a creator. Like, let me just get back, boom, I'm a creator. And so, at the end of the day, that's what I resonate. That's the truth. We're all creators. We all create our lives. We're all creating every single moment I'm creating right now. I'm creating something into the universe right now. with with with how Everything I'm doing thinking, speaking, vibrating, moving, creating something with you, my brother, listeners, my brothers and sisters with myself, you know, so, and then, you know, at certain points in my life, I've just learned that okay, and this era of my life, like right now in this era of Kiko sallallaahu Ellsworth slife right now, you know, because sometimes we need a little more definition than just creator because that's so broad. It's like, okay, but yeah, what do you do is like, okay, yeah, let me just kind of do this human thing now, you know, but at this point in my life right now, I'm identifying as, you know, an actor on camera artists, you know, that sort of identity, inspirational speaker, and high performance love and lifestyle coach. So those are my Those are my, my things that are most prevalent in my life is being able to express myself on camera, inspiring, and people, you know, speaking people speaking, on the stage with people, whether it be virtually like this on stage in front of 10,000 people, it doesn't matter. And then also actually doing the work like helping people to do the day to day work, whether I'm teaching a Kundalini yoga class, or breath work, or teaching a man how he can activate all of his cylinders as a man. So that's, that's where I'm rolling that right now, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 16:29 That's great. I want to I want to get back to that. So what I want to do is kind of break into the one piece, right, you know, for a while there, there you are, your your, your Hollywood, your Mr. Hollywood Kiko? Right and you kind of like the Playboy, your party, and you've got the ladies, you've got the, you know, the vehicles and you're having a good time, right? Where is where is kind of the, the reckoning moment, right? where like, this is gonna, this this, this isn't working, right, this, uh, this isn't satisfying, this isn't fulfilling. I mean, I'd be curious to kind of what did you even recognize it as a Was it a slow burn out? Or what?

Kiko Ellsworth 17:09 Yeah, there was a few of those moments, actually, you know, 211 was, you know, and living the fast life with a woman and then you know, doing that, and I'm in the moment, and then like, this, this is, I'm in the moment, but this is not it. This is not the moment I'm not feeling it. I'm not even connecting to this, to this, this moment. This is supposed to be this is supposed to be it. This is supposed to be the fun of, of, you know, you know, being with women and, you know, running this and you know, and it just, I just remember, like, kind of like being pulled outside of my body outside of this experience that's supposed to be, you know, it, you know, the intimacy of being with a woman or women and all that stuff. And I'm like this, I'm like, I'm doing this act. And I'm like, just saying it, man. And it was like, my spear is like, yeah, you keep doing that. But like, I'm gonna be over here. And you do finish that or whatever. But I'm gonna be over here. And it's just like, Whoa, I was like, Okay, this doesn't mean much.

Brandon Handley 18:18 Yeah. So kind of like a hollow hollow moments. Right. And so hollow man, recognizing that, you know, recognizing them was it's your product of I want to say the simulation right, you know, a product of the of the simulation right, the product of I hate to say commercialism, because I'm not going to try and like hate on commercialism. Right? Because even as even as you did acting and entertainment, and that might not have been like the most fulfilling, you know, if you if you were to take that kind of role right now, you you might you might turn it down. But at the same time, there's value in entertainment, right? Everybody needs everybody needs that piece, right? everybody's like, the world's like, you know, you can get yourself down every once a while you just need something to distract. You need something to be entertained, right. So what you were finding hollow moments, right? So when, you know, when do you feel like was the Kundalini rising moment, right?

Kiko Ellsworth 19:15 Well, I was a slow rise for many, many years. And I had to add a big break down moment. But I remember another big choice of mine was when I was I remember that show heroes years ago. I don't know if you remember that. So I had a role on there. And I remember, they want me to continue to be on the show. But it overlapped with my spiritual development in a way that, you know, I was trying to learn how to be in a relationship with this woman that was helping me to advance spiritually, right. And I ended up marrying her and we ended up having a completion ceremony as well. And it was like Okay, you got to choose us. Shoes, the money in the show, and some this or you choose this over here, but you can't have both because they're both at the same time, it's like, you're gonna choose this, you know, going on a trip with her and, and, and developing and investing in your relationship or you're going to cancel the trip, postpone it, put that off, and then actually do this. And for me, you know, I just felt like I needed to choose me in that moment, and, and be willing to sacrifice the money, the fame being on a on a hit show. And that those sorts of things. And you know, and I did, and I ended up losing, you know, that role, they ended up like killing me off and stuff like that, you know, because there's someone else that's willing to take it and do those things. And

Brandon Handley 20:47 that was another moment. That's super powerful. Right? That's, uh, you know, God, I don't know that Jesus lies in the Bible lines, but I know that, you know, a big part of it is like, you know, get rid of everything else and follow me, right. And by saying that he's you know, basically you saying, doing what Jesus did, you know, get rid of everything else. That's kind of distracting and follow yourself, right? Follow follow the truth of who you are. Or at least pay attention to that intuitive moment, like you did. And choosing yourself over anything else. That's huge, man.

Kiko Ellsworth 21:24 I'm, like, enlightened, like, I mean, you tap in on it right there, like? And it goes back to the very first question that you asked me when we first started all this, right, choosing yourself, but most of us I know that I have very low self esteem, and I was very insecure, very low self esteem. When I now that Looking back, I realized that I didn't think much of myself. I and I looked at myself, and I just saw this sort of, you know, a human, you know, I didn't really see a divine being It was beautiful, and powerful and influential. And that that has all these magic, like literal magic. You know, I didn't see that. And so I think if we don't see that, we're like, Well, why would I choose me? Like, I'm just, I'm just a little old me, you know, I'm saying, Yeah, yeah. Because that's glitz and glamour. You know, I'm

Brandon Handley 22:22 saying that is? I mean, that's a great word for it, though. Right. That's the glamour. Right. That's that, you know, you're talking magical sense. Right. That's, that's the glamorization of this thing as its disillusionment. And I think that, you know, I don't know if it's purposeful. I'm not again, I'm not, I'm not a big conspiracy guy, either. I don't have that kind of time. But like, when exactly we weren't taught, we're taught to play small, right? We're taught to play small, we're taught to be humbled to, you know, be grateful for what you get, you know, don't ask for more than you need type of thing. So you are taught to be big. You weren't taught to, like, find that expression you weren't taught to? Even if you went to church, like you, and as a child, you wouldn't have understood to look for your divinity. Yeah. Right. Um, you know, at least again, not and mostly in like, the western civilization. And this is just another parallel before we started the show, you know, you know, I came upon the same thing myself, like, probably this started spiritual dope, right? Because at the start of spiritual dope, was the recognition of myself as a divine being. Right? 100% right. I do. So I've got a mini course called, like, the divine framework, right? Like it's recognized making that choice to recognize yourself as divinity is connected to the divine.

Kiko Ellsworth 23:46 What can be better than that? Yep. Because look, look, I mean, you you hit it, we were taught to be small, right? But, like, for those of you that are listening to this, you know, you are big like this is your world. Literally, like Neo in the matrix are the one that says

Brandon Handley 24:15 100% So uh, yeah, all good stuff man. And and I literally had during my awakening period, just because you're bringing up Neo references remember that part where he goes in there and he starts replicating, right? Dude? sober like for like months right? Like I didn't stop drinking right but if similar to your story, right, like we can get more into that and but replication moment, like we're like that same noise like in my body, like I was like, This is some fucking shit. Right? Like and again. So was the day is long and that was happening. I still remember calling my wife and let her know that like all this shit was going on. She's like, are you okay? Are you sober? I was like, Yeah, and that's the problem. Right like going through. I was like, that's because because you know if it was drugs or something else, I could I could I could put point to it. So, you know, you're, you're doing this right and you choose you, what are your friends saying? What are the people around you saying,

Kiko Ellsworth 25:08 I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't really know, I don't care. And at the same time, the ones that are showing up and saying things are, are are inspired, they're on board, you know, my main focus is me. And being true to me, like I said, I got enough work to do, to stay aligned with me, and to keep diving deep within me. And, you know, sometimes I come out and people have a response. And that's, and that's cool. And at the same time, you know, I'm okay with people not agreeing or saying certain things. Because at the same time, you know, it's got nothing to do with me. And I realized that as well, like, they're having their own experience, you know, whether they want to, you know, be responsible for that they're the creators of their own life and not in project what they want to project. Like, that's, that's on that's totally on them. And, you know, at the same time, there is a certain amount of reflection that I can get back from people, that also may just kind of give me a read on how I'm coming off or how, because I know, like, say, for example, if I say something that's a deep truth to me, and then I can calibrate that on a response that I get if someone responds negatively, I'm like, Okay, great. I understand that. But I'm also, you know, I'm also calibrating that this was a deep truth of mine, and I can bring up things for other people. So being able to discern the difference between, you know, if I, if I, if I'm standing in my truth, and it's bringing up negativity or something from someone else, I have to be able to discern, okay, this is something that's bringing up for them. And that has nothing to do with me. And at the same time, if it brings up something positive, and if it inspires somebody else, I have to realize that that that communication got through to somebody, right, and it inspired somebody. So I have to discern the difference between one action that can inspire some biomek. Okay, great, I see how it's resonating. And at the same time, if it brings up something negative, and someone else, being able to discern that same energy is bringing up something that has nothing to do with me, but has something to do with what someone else needs to work through in their own life, right. But I got to keep doing the same thing. I got to keep doing my thing. And my job is still the same. It's just like, Am I am I doing? Am I am I aligned here? Am I doing my Am I expressing myself better? Is it better? Am I speaking my truth? I got a lot of work to do, man. Look, I got a lot of work to do, bro.

Brandon Handley 27:42 100%. Right, right. And it doesn't stop. Let's talk. I mean, what what are some practical applications? Right? So you have the work, right? have, you know some of some of what you're doing? I know that you're you're you're helping men and women to find themselves to activate themselves to to be true to themselves? What are some? What are some practical teachings that you're sharing out there that some like, I don't know, man? What's something, you know, give me an example of something that you're working on today. And let's just walk it out. Right?

Kiko Ellsworth 28:14 Yeah, yeah. Well, let me just preempt it with this. My, my work that I do for myself, at times looks different than than the work that I do at times with people, you know, and it's, it's all it's all but it's all the one in the same as well, right? So say, for example, I'm creating this one course that I'm doing, and it's a, it's called, everyday divine love. It's just like, how you can express every day, divine, dope, powerful love, being able to say your brand, and I love you, brother. I love you. Every day, divine love being able to see the Divinity in you and me, and not feel like this is taking me away and making me less than a man like nah, every single day, I can say I love you to my brother, and not feel weak. Every single day I can say I love you to my sister, and not mean nothing sexual. I just love you, my sister. I love you. I want you to fulfill your divine mission because you came in for mission. And I want you to fulfill that. So, you know, that court and that particular course, it's really about like two things. It's about anchoring in and giving them the framework to be able to authentically start to anchor themselves for that clarity to being able to see everyone with that divine love Now that doesn't mean that we're all like a just vulnerable to everybody in the way we would get ourselves hurt. Because it's all about healthy boundaries as well too. And just because I love I love somebody that's evil, but you need to stay over there. I love you because everything's spirit right but You're at a vibration that I will not allow to come into my space at the same time, you see what I'm saying. So anchoring in that sort of insight filter to be able to see the divinity and everything. And then also the basics of breathwork, that the basics of being able to breathe properly diaphragmatic breathing, having a complete breath, most of us originated, our breath originates in our upper chest, or our clavicles, as completely unproductive. And that's going to take you completely off your path, it's going to be counterproductive to being who you need to be, and fulfill your mission. So with that, it's like, anchoring in that divine love and anchoring in just breathing properly, nothing, nothing special, just anchoring that breath down there into that diaphragm into that lower, you know, and then that chest, and then up here, and then learning how to breathe completely, right. And in that way, we can actually have, you know, sort of be the creators of our life in a very responsible and controlled, free flowing way. So that's something that I'm creating right now. But that's something that I repeatedly do, because a lot of people are so stressed, and they just don't we just, we're just in here, we're just not taught how to breathe

Brandon Handley 31:15 in and,

Unknown Speaker 31:18 you know,

Brandon Handley 31:20 if we don't know how to breathe, then you know, what else don't we know? Right? And I think that that's the crazy part. Because, you know, there you are, you're breathing, and you've been breathing your entire life. And now somebody is going to count and be like, you're doing it wrong. Like, what? What do you mean, I'm breathing wrong, I'm here, I'm alive. I'm doing well, aren't I? Like, you know, that's, are you? Right? I mean, that's a great question. Right? Like, are you? What is your What is your breathing style?

Kiko Ellsworth 31:52 You know, and it changes, obviously, for me, you know, I just make sure that like, say, say for example, my default breathing, that it always starts down here, it always starts down here. And it's something that I are constantly being conscious of a practice of just being aware of where my breathing is at. And never make myself wrong, just because like so you know, maybe in the day, I might start my breath here. I'm just conscious of it. So it's my practice to constantly be aware of how I'm breathing, where I'm reading the rate of how I'm breathing, the pattern, how I'm breathing, I don't ever feel bad. If I'm even breathing like up here. I'm not perfect with it. I'm always aware of my breathing. And then if it is somewhere else that is not necessarily optimal. I bring it back down to my belly, my navel point, my diaphragm. And what I like to say is I breathe low slow and it creates that glow. Number Baby,

Brandon Handley 32:55 I love it. The the you're talking about though, twos taken away judgment, right, just because you're not doing it and what you feel might be the best way for yourself. You're not beating yourself up over it.

Unknown Speaker 33:06 He know. Right?

Brandon Handley 33:09 So I asked that question, just out of curiosity, because there was are you familiar with I'm sure you probably are Hara style breathing, the Japanese and style of breathing? No, I

Kiko Ellsworth 33:19 never heard of that. Actually.

Brandon Handley 33:20 That's pretty cool. It's a little bit different than just I guess the in the book anyways, it says is a little bit different than Indian style of breathing, just because it stops it stops the diaphragm or the belly from dropping a little bit lower that I don't I mean, so. But it stops it from dropping just as low. But the thought that I had when I when I learned how to do a little bit of what you're talking about, right and and implementing this Hara breathing is the idea of

Unknown Speaker 33:51 Holy Grail.

Brandon Handley 33:52 Right? If you look at it, right, and I almost ended up like this. So the base down here would be the bottom of the chalice, right? And if you're squeezing here and you're breathing your, you know, your belly here, right? And then you've got up here on the top of the chest. This is the holy grail is breathing properly.

Kiko Ellsworth 34:08 Yeah, I'm gonna run with it. Yeah, you know, you're right. Because just briefly, the breath, your your quality of breath, directly influences your quality of thought. The quality of thought directly influences your quality of emotions and feelings, right? How you feel out throughout your entire body. And then our feelings and emotions directly influence our words and our actions. So our breath literally influences our ability to create the quality of life through our words. Someone that's breathing and I love the saying is like if you picture like a I think it was like a it's an old saying, but it goes. Deep breath, long life. Shallow breath close to death.

Brandon Handley 35:00 Oh, no. That's funny sounds like it's from like five fingers of venom or something like that.

Kiko Ellsworth 35:05 Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

Brandon Handley 35:07 You picked up on that. Um, and so, so um, and another thing you mentioned in one of the other podcasts, I thought was pretty interesting. And they brought this, they brought this up in this book is called hair, how to find it, or how to share your link when I unpack. Because it's actually really interesting. It comes from, from a German psychologist who's been about 10 years with Zen Buddhists in the 40s and 50s. Right? So he was kind of a foreigner in this space. And one of the things they talk about, and there was something that you you brought up is like you by changing the way you breed, you change where your voice is coming from, talk a little bit about that, and how that comes about,

Kiko Ellsworth 35:51 oh, man, I I remember when I when I started doing Kundalini Yoga. And I'm doing class like 4am, early in the am 4am 4:35am. And I remember at that time, I was, I was so uptight. And I'm doing these mantras, there's a lot of mantras and stuff like that. And I remember that time, my voice was caught in my throat. And it was like, it was like, up here. And it was like, tight. And it was it was higher. And it wasn't coming from my diaphragm. And it was really heavy. And I remember in that class, I was like, why am I so stressed, I'm like, there's nothing happened. It's 430 in the AM. And I felt how I was holding everything up here, and my throat, and my shoulders. And when I learned how to breathe, my voice, my breath and everything just dropped down to my diaphragm, where it's supposed to be, you know, where, where you can blow where you can, you know, where you have your power. And that's, that's where my got my voice back. The creativity just started flowing through my pacing on how I talk, you know, slow down, you know, you just you just start to get yourself back. You know, this is beautiful, man.

Brandon Handley 37:19 100% 100%. And so this is something that you're you're another another piece I enjoyed hearing you talk about was how acting helped you to connect to your emotions, right? And to actually feels I love that. It's funny. About two weeks ago, I interviewed Anthony Mondale,

Unknown Speaker 37:40 are you familiar with him? Mondale?

Brandon Handley 37:42 Yeah, he's an acting coach out there in LA. Just wasn't sure if you guys ever cross paths?

Kiko Ellsworth 37:47 No, not my dad. One of my great friends is Anthony Montgomery. Not No, no.

Brandon Handley 37:53 Yeah. So when I was interviewing him, it was talking a little bit about this, right. Like, you know, he was saying, like, everybody needed, maybe I think classes. Absolutely. And, and, and I connected the two today when I was listening your podcast earlier. So talk a little bit about how that works. And you know, what, what, you know, how can somebody apply acting to, you know, figuring out their own emotions and their shit?

Kiko Ellsworth 38:17 Yeah, I think especially for, especially for men for both sexes, obviously. But especially for a man like fought for man, like, what we're coming from is like, Man, you better not cry, you better suck it up. You know, you being a little worse, you being that, you know, you better man up you better, you better you better man up, you know what I'm saying? We're coming from that sort of up tight, macho, you know, illusion type of crap. So, you know, a lot of men, you know, it's good for men, because it's almost like an excuse to cry. It's like, we have an excuse. It's like, Oh, no, I wasn't really going to cry. It's like, I'm an actor. So I get to cry. It's kind of like a bridge. And you're just

Brandon Handley 39:00 practicing for a role, right?

Unknown Speaker 39:02 Oh, man.

Kiko Ellsworth 39:04 You know, I was a real, you know, but but it gives us an excuse to get in touch with ourselves. Because once we make contact with ourselves, we go beyond that, that sort of fear. And we realize that, that it's actually okay. And that is actually a natural part of us. It's actually those if you imagine that we're a 12 cylinder, high performance vehicle, and that we're only using our masculine side, right that that strong, aggressive sun energy, we're only using six of our cylinders. But when we start to tap into that, that Yin, that recessive side, that feminine side of who we actually are that part that can slow us down and be more sensitive and creative, right? Then we actually get in touch with those other cylinders. Because, you know, being in touch with our emotions allows us to navigate life. I can't always just be aggressive with you or A child or a woman, I can't always be completely masculine. I have to know when to receive, when to stop, when to listen. And then when to apply myself to penetrate. It's a dance just like martial arts, I can't always strike I got to know when to block. You know, the best martial artists are boxers, the ones that know how to like, you know, like, Oh my God, look how he's like slipping that punch. Look how he's blocked and look at how he's moving. That's a feminine move right there. That's, that's it, that's an emotional move. That's being sensitive, that's being aware. And being aware and sensitive of what's going on with you from an emotional state is, is essential. If a person but particularly a man because we struggle with it the most. If a man wants to evolve, particularly he has to be aware, really aware of his emotions, if he wants to evolve as a man, if not, he's gonna he's gonna be like a dinosaur. And he's gonna, you're gonna die, he's gonna, he's not gonna be able to keep up with evolution does so so I mean, look, I

Brandon Handley 41:05 mean, there's, what you're saying is there's there's a lot of power in feeling that emotion and recognizing it, what's what's, uh, what's like the first tool that you give to a man who's just trying to figure out his emotions.

Kiko Ellsworth 41:18 Uh, it all It all depends where he's at, you know, for me, it's,

Brandon Handley 41:23 I'm in off the streets, and I, I'm tough as hell, and I don't have any emotions. So what's, uh,

Kiko Ellsworth 41:30 yeah, yeah. Well, I think the first thing is having a real conversation to acknowledge that everybody has emotions. And that, if you really are man, let's say for example, I might be dealing with this stuff, too, right? It's like, okay, so you're man, you're tougher. Right? So So when did you get hurt? So I know that cuz everybody gets hurt. You weren't born? It's where were you born this way. So where were you like before? You think that you didn't have motions? When did you stop having emotions? Look, your heart. Let's be real. Let's be tough about this. Who broke your heart, man, I don't remember who broke my heart. And I'll share, I'll share myself and I might even tear up I because I need to create a space right for him. So he feels safe, I need to lead by example. Right? So I'll create a space where he can start to see maybe himself in me. And then he can start to share himself. So he needs to learn how to explore the inner workings of his if several, he never felt safe to explore the inner workings of himself to reveal himself to himself, literally. That's how he's going to find him his strength. So, you know, some it's, it's, it's, uh, you know, I don't ever come out at the same way. And at the end of the day, I don't go out just looking for men. They gotta want it themselves.

Brandon Handley 42:40 We look. Yeah, that's I mean, that's huge. Right. Gotta want it.

Kiko Ellsworth 42:48 Yeah, right.

Brandon Handley 42:48 I still, you know, I think that I'm not sure if you were like me. And, you know, when you first kind of had your moments of awakening moments, or you're, you're like, Hey, y'all are spiritual now. Right? Yeah. Like, like a, you know, it's like I was. No, I'm

Kiko Ellsworth 43:05 not I'm not doing the drinkin and stuff.

Unknown Speaker 43:08 Already. Yeah, I'm

Brandon Handley 43:10 like, it's old school, right? Like, quite literally, like, I'm like, Hey, y'all, let's go streak in, right. And everybody's like, nobody's coming with me. But that's okay. But you know, there's also that point where you realize, like, you were talking earlier, it's, it's your own experience, and everybody else is having their own experience. And you got to want it, right, you got to be looking for it in order to, to immediately if you're not looking for it, you won't find it right.

Kiko Ellsworth 43:35 At some point, you're being selfish in that sense. You know, I'm gonna say it like that. You got to just start thinking about you. Because here's the thing. Like, I might say this to a guy too. I might say this, like, Look, you're gonna die, dude, you're gonna die. One day, you're gonna die. And you can either look back on your life because I believe we're gonna be able to look back on our life. And no, we're just gonna, you're gonna know. And so like, you can live a life that you're proud of. Right? And you can really have shown up in the best way that you can, or you can continue to, like, do what you've been doing. Right? Like we want to, we want to die proud. We want to challenge ourselves. We want to evolve ourselves as men, and be that and do the things that we need to say confront the fears, we need to say heal the relationships that we need to heal. You know, one of the most proud things I'm most proud of, is I you know, me and my dad I really was like over 30 years I healed my relationship with my dad. I created 100% peace with my dad. That was the relationship I did other ones too. You know, I'm saying but that was the one that was the one that was the monster that was the one I was most afraid of. That was the one that was the breakthrough. Right? What

Brandon Handley 44:39 was what was what made it the monster like I mean, what was what was it that you know, what was the wall like?

Kiko Ellsworth 44:46 Because I was afraid of my dad. I was afraid of my dad. You know, growing up. That was where a lot of the abuse happened to alcohol the the manipulation the that sort of thing you don't I'm saying I was afraid of my dad. He was the big bad monster. You know what I'm saying? I'm walking on eggshells being afraid It all started with, like, you know, my dad, you know, and now you know, but my dad, at the time when he had me when he was so young, right, I don't blame my dad, you know, like, but for me for being a young boy and and then having your dad, your hero, that figure and then being afraid of that, and then you have and then having to overcome that your entire life. You know, I'm saying that's that's like the big bad monster. So for me to, you know, when I was engaging in the world The reason why I didn't have my voice and the reason why I was afraid is because I was initially afraid of my dad.

Unknown Speaker 45:32 Yeah, well, I

Kiko Ellsworth 45:32 mean, that's why I was afraid to the entire world. Yeah, cuz.

Brandon Handley 45:36 Yeah. So I mean, I didn't mention it. But my first my first foray into doing the podcast was fatherhood stuff, right? covering the fatherhood space, right? Just understanding how important that is to have somebody that does the first stop. Right, your first office at home? Yep. Right. And so having to deal with a father like that, that tells you a lot, right, and what you had to overcome. So I mean, that's powerful that you did it, like, what do you do? You know, what do you attribute the largest of it, you know, kind of overcoming it just all the work that you did on yourself and fully accepting him for who he was? And, you know, what, what was the final breakthrough for you?

Kiko Ellsworth 46:13 I think, you know, it's interesting. My own dedication to myself, being selfish, wanting to be just the best version of myself, helped me to be the person I need to be to really make that job happen. That's one thing, right. And then along the path, I realized that I was in a Iosco ceremony, you know, one of these Iosco ceremonies, I've done like a lot of those, right. And in one of these ceremonies, I wrote down two words, I wrote down, Hey, Dad, that's all I wrote down. Because at that point, when I was in that, in the middle of that, I realized that if I could just say to my dad, Hey, Dad, with an open heart, peaceful, love, I realized that's what I wanted. And I didn't realize it. And many of us men don't realize we like oh, or woman or whatever, like, I'm cool. I'm cool. Just being over here. At the end of the day, I just like I challenge you, that we all really do want it, we might not think that it's possible, there might be a lot of pain, there might be we might have given up hope, we might not have the tools, we might not have developed ourselves enough. That might be looking like a big 30 foot 100 foot wall 20 feet thick, it might look impossible. That said, the child inside of us still wants that peace, wants that relationship still wants something healthy. And I think that we have an opportunity, we might not have been able to do it as a child. But we have an opportunity if we actually get the tools and the resources to be able to actually create that some of us got a really it took me 30 years, you got to fight for that. And then gonna be easy, right? You might not, you might never get the response that you need. But it's not about that always, it's really about like healing this up in here. And let me tell you, when I finally broke through to my dad, Yo, I found it I put it like this. I had there was like three, not physical fights. But there was three fights with my dad like emotional fights. The first one was like an explosion of volcanoes all over the place. crying tears, I remember was like, in the beginning, it was like in the middle of an alley dives, I got out the middle of his truck. And I was yelling at him. And it was just, it was all over the place. A second one. Same thing, but not as intense, right. Third time was same thing. definitely like it was like about 25% and intense. But I was much more in control with my tools and how to show up. And it was like, it was like I had to manage my ego and my spirit manages, right, keep him so he wasn't able to like run away and get out of the situation. And you know, hit it over here with my ego, maybe confront him with something and then speak my heart and then do this but and then also not be emotionally attached to what was going on with him. But be my own. It was there, then and then it was like and then it was like I remember the moment then he sat down. I'm not gonna tell you some Look, look. It's like Scarface waving a little white flag. never see that happen ever. So you're going to shoot me like I'm going out with it's like right? See, my dad at that time. Put it to sit down was like seeing having Scarface surrender. And I remember in that moment, everything changed. because something happened that I didn't even know that I was looking for and my dad Man, he spoke to me in a tone that that I hadn't heard like, in 40 years. Since I was a boy since I was like five. And a part that that little boy inside of me was like, I remember him. Yeah. I remember that voice. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't. I wasn't available for it in all the stuff that had happened throughout life, and all this stuff. But that didn't change the fact that when I heard that voice, that's what I wanted to hear.

Brandon Handley 50:35 Yeah. Yeah. I love that man. Yeah, you were able to just kind of get back to to the space, right? Where is just the two of you. You know, there's that Father, Son and father child bond. I mean, look, you've got your daughter, right. I don't know if you've got any other children. But there's that bond and do when when you're given all of your heart guests. And that's kind of a tone that you heard from your father, right? Like, get the unconditional love of a father and a child. And that's what had been missing for you for so long.

Kiko Ellsworth 51:05 Yeah, yeah. And as soon as I broke through with my dad, I was able to connect with my daughter at a deeper level, because I had a block with my daughter.

Unknown Speaker 51:14 Yeah,

Kiko Ellsworth 51:15 up until that point, when I broke through with my dad, I broke through with my daughter. And she also established a connection with him because she was like, disconnected from him, too. And I was wondering what was happening. And I was like, I want to be more connected. But it's not. That happened. It just started flowing.

Brandon Handley 51:32 There it is. There it is, man, I love it. So you know, you've got this, you've got training, you've got courses, where, you know, you're working with other people, I believe, you know, that you're also getting back into some acting right? You're getting back to work?

Unknown Speaker 51:48 Well, in front of the camera, we'll get in front of the camera. Okay. All right. All right.

Kiko Ellsworth 51:54 Yes. Is back for sure. Most definitely, absolutely.

Brandon Handley 51:58 so forth, we expect to see you this year.

Kiko Ellsworth 52:03 You know, this is what matters most right here having these conversations. And, you know, this, it starts with, like, it has been starting with, like these sorts of podcasts and these sorts of interviews. You know, I walked away from entertainment, because I didn't, I didn't have anything of value, in my opinion, to talk about, that truly matter, anything that I felt where I had a real foundation to stand upon. But being able to talk about things like my relationship with my father, now I got something to talk about. For me. That's the stuff that matters in life. That's the stuff that matters when we are on our deathbed when we're transitioning and going back to our home, right? That's the type of stuff that we can be proud of, you know, so, you know, starts with like this, I'm doing some a lot of public speaking. This this year as well, too. It might not be this particular year, like in TV or film. But that that will likely happen in the next like two years or so. What I'm what I'm doing is I'm getting back in front of the camera in ways that are most meaningful. And my job is just to listen to spirit, and to do and to go where spirit guides me. And like right now it has me speaking with you. And I'm so blessed to be here with you, brother. I'm so appreciative of you and holding the space spiritual dope podcast. Thank you to you and your listeners, man. And I'm just you know, I'm just grateful man. Yeah, thank you.

Brandon Handley 53:30 I'm so appreciative to have this opportunity to speak with you right to get to connect. And to be able to use a platform like this to do that. Right. So where can I send people then to connect with you? Where should we Where should we go? Get us some more Kiko?

Kiko Ellsworth 53:43 Your Yeah, um, you can find me on Instagram. It's just Kiko Ellsworth KKOELL sw rth. On Instagram and everything is like you can find everything that I do. They're awesome.

Brandon Handley 53:56 Well Kiko thank you so much again, man. You know, I'm sure most of people know you know, novice days is is is what it means to say, you know, I salute the Divinity within you. So I salute the Divinity with

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Mikal Shumate grew up in a blue-collar family, served in the U.S. Navy during the Vietnam War, and worked in the construction industry for over 45 years before retiring. He holds a certification in interpersonal and trans-person counseling, and is an ordained spiritualist minister and oneness trainer. A lifetime of interest in learning about and obtaining higher consciousness lead Mikal to study and decipher the mysteries of all the world's major traditions, spiritual philosophies and experiences. This ultimately led him to discover and interpret the mechanism for achieving awakening and enlightenment, which he now pass on to others within the pages of "Blue-Collar Enlightenment"

Connect with Mikal at LoveLightConsciousness.com !

Brandon Handley 0:00 4321 Hey, their spiritual dope this is Brandon Handley. And I am on with Michael Shumate, who grew up in a blue collar family and served in the US Navy during the Vietnam War. He's also worked in the conduct construction industry for over 45 years before he retired. He holds a certification and interpersonal and transpersonal counseling and as an ordained spiritualist minister and oneness trainer, after a lifetime of interest in learning about and obtaining higher consciousness, he was led to study and decipher the mysteries of all the world's major traditions, spiritual philosophies and experiences. This ultimately led him to discover and interpret the mechanism for achieving awakening and enlightenment, which he now passes on to others within his new book, blue collar enlightenment, Michael, thanks for being here today. How are you?

Mikal Shumate 0:51 Thank you. I'm doing well.

Brandon Handley 0:54 Fantastic. Awesome. So I'd love to start these off with the idea that you and I are basically, you know, we're conduits for source energy, right? And, and we, you know, something's flowing through us, you and I, today through this podcast is hitting somebody's ears, or maybe a video depending on what they watch the video, but there's a message that can only be delivered through you to that person today. What is that message?

Unknown Speaker 1:26 That

Mikal Shumate 1:28 it is possible to live life in a peaceful and happy state of consciousness where you're not stressed, and you can achieve anything you really want to achieve.

Brandon Handley 1:51 So I think that's a I think that's a powerful message. Right? And, and, you know, you build out this system for it. But even before we kind of get there, let's go, you know, what are some of the, you know, the, I'd be curious about what is even a spiritualist minister, right, and just kind of let's talk a little bit about your path and how you got to where you are today. So in in regards to even being the spiritualist minister, what would you tell me that is, and what's that mean?

Mikal Shumate 2:19 Well, early, early in my life, I had a number of experiences they had to do with people that I knew or people that I met. The most profound was a woman named Nancy Cappy who actually, at the time that I met her, I was a young man in my late teens, and she worked with my mother at the time in are in the same company, and they knew each other, so they and we also had a group of friends and things like that for the family. And so she was part of that network. And she did what are called reads. Okay, well, readings, you know, in most terms are, are seen as being psychic readings, she was psychic, but with a very definitive methodology. And her her method was Auric reading. So she would read the energy fields around your body. And she, I mean, she was she was one of these people that was born that way. You know, and she just, she just over her lifetime learned until she got to the point where that's all she did was, was her work by reading orders. And she, she had a profound effect upon me. I came home I was in, just joined the Navy. I came home on leave. And our neighbor, Latasha comes by and says, You got to go down and see Nancy. So why would you know, she's doing readings down here and was in San Diego. She's down here at the waterfront, and you need to get out and see her. Well, okay. Don't What else you got to do, you know? So I found a hotel room down on the waterfront where she had rented a room it was giving readings. And I walked in and she looked up and saw me and she just kind of stared at me for a minute. And then she finished what she was talking about. And then she says, may I come to you? I had no idea what she was talking about at the time. So she said, Yeah, okay. And so she, she told me things about myself. And two profound things stuck with me out of that. One of those was that I needed to learn how to separate my work life. from my home life. A lot of people bring their work home with them. And she told me, it would be very important for me to separate that. Which I learned to do. And in fact I do, I learned it so well that I would tell myself as soon as I get home, I need to call so and so and I wouldn't remember until the next morning. So it's, you know, so that separation was important. And then she also then exposed me to the idea that there was something else beyond what I had learned in my life. That all fell into the category of spirituality. In spiritualism itself, to answer your question is the study of psychic phenomena, the study of energetics that are beyond our normal, day to day process. And what it did for me was, it inspired me to, to wonder about and seek to, to refine and define and understand what consciousness is. So I had like, two, two operations going on in my life, I had my, my, my work, business, all that sort of thing. And then on the other side of it, I had my quest to learn about spirituality and consciousness. And, and then, of course, that evolved over the process of time. And we're talking about, you know, a 50, year 5050 plus year process, actually, over 60 years, almost 60 years process, to try to figure out, you know, who I am and what I am and who we are, and what we are, and that sort of thing, in my book is the culmination of that process up to the point I wrote a book, because consciousness and awareness is not something that you just reach it reach an endpoint, and that's it. No, it's not like, it's not like, okay, your body has

reached its limit, and you drop the body and whatever happens after that, right. So it's not like it's not terminal. Yeah, no,

Brandon Handley 7:26 I get that for sure. Sure. Just to jump in real quick. You know, we're already got a little bit to unpack there, Michael. So before we, before we get too far along there, right. I love what you're saying there in terms of, you know, there is, I mean, there may seem to be points where there's a plateau, but it's still ongoing, right? Even if it levels off, it's still expanding that that consciousness that you're talking about, right? Yes. And my

Mikal Shumate 7:49 experience is that we, that it's like a ladder, you you expand, you reach a point, and you stabilize it, that area, you in my experience, I would like have what they would call a colic cathartic experience of reaching a plateau. And then that experience then becomes normal. And it's like, okay, at that time, you know, it's like, You're full of Listen, you're full of joy, and it's just this wonderful thing. And then, and then that just kind of becomes ordinary. And then as you grow, then you step up again, and it's just a continuous process of that. Enlightenment is not a endpoint, it is a actually a beginning point of the understanding of the totality of your consciousness.

Brandon Handley 8:42 Can I tell you how frustrated I was with that one, right? Because, you know, as I as I look back on my experience, right, kind of mine was kind of a sudden, sudden thing, right? Kind of, like, I would liken it to a discarded seed that just goes ahead and sprouts anyways. Right? And and really, there was no stopping it. So you just kind of like, Oh, well, great. This is amazing. And then it's taken me personally about three years to kind of understand what's going on, try to verbalize it and really develop it. It's like, just like literally like being reborn, right? There's this whole there's a whole new language that I don't understand, or I understand but I'm looking for the language to to encompass the experience. Right. So when you know when so you've got this you got this lady, right? What What is it that makes you even believe her right at that time, because she's telling us some things. I'm gonna you know, your your your your, you know, late, late to your late teens or early 20s I'm guessing and what makes you believe her that what she's telling you is something that's even worth pursuing.

Mikal Shumate 9:55 Well, my attitude is I am I am a A dyed in the wool skeptic. So you can, I will listen to whatever you have to say. And then I will look into the world and see if that's valid for me or not. And so what what happened with me was, you know, a number of things that she talked about kind of resonated. And okay, well, let's, let's just see what this is. And actually what happened was, after I, after I got out of the Navy, I went into college. And after going to college, I came back to my hometown of Encinitas, California. And there was a place there called the chapel of awareness that I happen to just walk by one day and see Oh, no, and, you know, it's like, you know, your your, if you allow yourself to be spirit will drive you to wherever it is that you need to be. So,

Brandon Handley 11:03 agreed with that real quick there. You know, what, what would you say specifically resonated with with you? I know, it's been a while, right. But you said a few things she'd said resonated. And I'm just curious what those resignation points were?

Unknown Speaker 11:16 Well,

Mikal Shumate 11:20 gee, it's, I mean, you're talking.

Brandon Handley 11:23 As I say, look, if you can't remember, if it's I get it, but you know, that was this kind of the question that popped up in my mind, you know, what are these? What are some of the sticking points?

Mikal Shumate 11:31 Yeah, I think, you know, the, the, looking at that process, because that was just a step. You don't know, it's just one step in a whole lifetime of steps. But I did, I did study spiritual ism, which is that study of psychic phenomena and, and contact with just disconnected, you know, disembodied souls and that sort of thing. And a lot of other things, which is a very primal level kind of experience, you don't have to be highly spiritually evolved, to be able to connect into that frequency of energy, you just have to have that resonance in you, that resonates with you know, whatever it is that you're you're trying to connect with. Like that. For me, for me, it's a very, was a very primal level kind of thing. And there's a whole lot more stuff, the increases with frequency as your

Brandon Handley 12:38 frequency goes up. And I think that i think that's interesting, too. Even going back to kind of, you know, the, the kind of awakening experience, right, where the awakening or the initial enlightenment isn't, isn't the end point, right? That's, it's kind of ongoing, whereas even Alright, well, hey, here it is, I've awakened, not only have I awakened, now, I feel this the source energy flowing through me right now. Now, what I'm hearing you say, is that you don't even have to be like that elevated or, you know, you don't have to be that deep end to be able to do that right to connect with sources that what you're saying, like, you know,

Mikal Shumate 13:18 we're not talking about connecting with source we're talking about connecting with, with the spiritual entities.

Brandon Handley 13:24 Okay. would you would you define things?

Mikal Shumate 13:28 Well, the requirement, as I've come to learn, okay, the requirement is that you need to resonate at the same frequency, it is true, all the way up the scale, you want to resonate with your higher self, you have to bring your vibration, so to speak, you know, that's the term that was used when I was a kid, you know, you got to raise your vibration,

Brandon Handley 13:50 it's back Michael, just say no, it's it's all it's all coming back, right. It's a cycle a cycle of things.

Mikal Shumate 13:58 So so it's like, you know, the higher you raise your vibration that gives you the ability to connect out to other intelligence at that vibration, because we are in we are in we have been divided there. There. There has been definition stated that we have that we have dimensions of existence, like the third dimension is the primal dimension of existence on Earth, right. Raising that vibration of Earth up to the fourth fifth dimension is now what what's being called, you know, the evolution of humanity. A lot of things come together as you gather pieces of the puzzle. And so what happened for me was I spent pretty much my lifetime gathering pieces of the puzzle. And about three years ago, three, four years ago, it all kind of coalesced and children came together and I had a much clearer Understanding of a much larger picture. And that's really where where my book takes people is how to get yourself into that state of being. So that you can, as you say, connect with source, because ultimately, everyone is connected to source,

Brandon Handley 15:23 for sure, for sure, for sure, right? It's not that you're not connected to source, it's your ability to recognize your connection with source or your awareness or, you know, kind of, you know, listen, so my mom, I was born in late 70s. My mom, you know, in San Francisco, right? So I've got a little bit of background in tuned in what does it tuned in turned on or whatever? Tune into now, whatever you tune in, drop out, whatever, you know, so there it is, right. There it is. Right. So the language right there, you know, is it right? It's already kind of in existence, kind of like there's already like a radio tower out there. All we got to do is dial into it. Right. And, and just recognize it. And and I think you would you say that you've got to want it, which you've got to say that you've got to be willing to receive it, that type of thing?

Mikal Shumate 16:15 Well, I yes, I think I think there are exceptions to people that with people that actually came in to, specifically to do that kind of connection. But for most people, you you meet, you need to be drawn into the what I would call it spiritual curiosity. Okay, so if you're, if you're, if you're, if you wonder, what is this? And you know, I mean, I would think that a majority of people wonder about, you know, why they're here on this planet at this time, and what their purpose in life is, and, and such like that, you know, the big existential questions that people have, but I think that the basis of all evolution is spiritual curiosity, that you want, you have a, you have an innate internal sense that there is something else and you want to find out what that something else is. And it can be drawn, you know, depending on your state of evolution, it can be drawn into a religious movement, you can be drawn into, you know, higher consciousness type movements, you can be drawn into meditation, you can be drawn into all kinds of things. I mean, there's 7 billion people on the planet, and there's 7 billion ways in which we can access this information. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 17:44 100%. And that's why like, I was definitely catching, catching your language saying, Hey, this is what you know, in my experience, this is what's been valid for me. Right, I'm hearing you say that. But what I think is also interesting, too, is that, you know, so here you are, you're, you know, you're in the military, how long were you in the military? And, and kind of what was your experience while you were seeking through that we sharing your experiences of seeking through that? Or was that kind of a solo experience for you? Well,

Mikal Shumate 18:14 I was in the military for three years, nine months at 26 days. Counting, right, so I did a minority term where I enlisted when I was 17. And I got out on my 21st birthday. So

Unknown Speaker 18:31 it was

Mikal Shumate 18:34 it was a process of working out. Or at least at least, the beginning of working out things from my childhood, in the military. It provided it provided a structure for me. It provided discipline,

Unknown Speaker 18:59 and

Mikal Shumate 19:02 gave me a chance to discover what I was capable of doing as a person. And that I was capable of going through this training and such like that. But more More importantly, what it was it was a mechanism for, for my future. In the fact that at the time, they had the GI Bill, well, they still have gi Yu GI Bill, but at the time. The GI Bill was very generous. And when I got out of the Navy, after about two years of, you know, flopping around and in society, I thought, you know, I want to I want to get an education, you know, I'd be the first person in my family to get a college education. And so the GI Bill help you do that. And, of course, when you go to college, what happens there is it's not about necessarily the subject matter. It's about the exposure to all the different things That at that time was probably the best way to broaden your horizons to expand your perspective on the world. Nowadays with the internet, it's a whole different story, because there's so much information available on the internet that you have a world education, you know, just by sitting in your, in your home, you know, but for me at that time, that was a, it was a mechanism that took me in to set me up for how I was going to operate in the business world and make a living and that sort of thing, at the same time, giving me opportunities, because where I went to school was up in the Monterey Peninsula for two years, and then up in Sonoma State University, for another three years. It gave me an opportunity to be exposed to a lot of different things, culturally different people, and become aware of other types of spiritual movements. It was a time of the Maharishi doing his thing. So I got exposed to that I got exposed to people that were interested in different spiritual paths, different gurus and things like that, because it was a lot of influence from the east coming in, at the time. So in that in those five, six years that I was hanging around in that environment, I got exposed to a lot of different philosophies, a lot of different perspectives and things like that. And each one of those things, gave me a piece of the puzzle.

Brandon Handley 21:38 Sure, sure. And that's pretty cool. How you're the first you like that you're the first new college, college graduate, right? And in your family taking kind of advantage of that mechanism for a future, let's talk about, like, how you're talking about the idea of, you know, going in getting that education, but the education, you know, and, you know, like, you keep saying, you know, in my experience, right, and my experience, you know, going back to school, after you've had some world experience makes that education a little bit, a little bit more applicable, right. If you just go from if you just go from school to school, you're just continuously learning, you don't have some real world application. So what you're sharing is that you were able to go, you know, finish up school, go to the military, you know, like you said, flop around a little bit. And then when you went back to school, you were able to kind of learn some things that you could actually apply to the real world. Is that how I'm picking that up? Yeah. And then it's pretty neat. Like how you were exposed to all these different types of new philosophies or philosophies. I think that during during the time that you were growing up in that period where we're new to the United States, right? Yes. What was your What was your personal background prior to even jumping into these these Eastern philosophies? Were you a Christian?

Mikal Shumate 23:04 Yeah, we was Catholic. I'm the old guy. So I'm the oldest of nine children. Guess what, guess what religion? We were. Right. Right.

Brandon Handley 23:16 Right. That's fair. So it wasn't Mormon. Yes. Were you? Did you know? Did you break away from that faith while you're studying all these others, to go off on your own and figure it out yourself?

Mikal Shumate 23:28 Actually, I broke away from from Catholicism when I was about seven years old. that I had, I had an experience that kind of made me stop and think and look, it's like, you know, this has always been part of my character to, you know, wonder about things. So, one Sunday, we were getting ready to leave for church. And I think we were there was like, four or five children in the family at that time. And I just put on Sunday clothes, all the good clothes and all that sort of thing. And I and I would walk it outside. I was I'm six foot five now, which is shrunk from six foot six. And I was so I was a tall, gangly, uncoordinated kid. And I stumbled on the way out, stepping down the porch, and skinned my knee. And I tore my pants. And my father just got furious with me about it. And I couldn't understand why he was so mad about it. No, it wasn't that I tore my new clothes and things. He says, We can't go to church with you looking like that. And I thought, why not? Because why does Why does God care what I look like? And that just started me looking seriously at Catholicism and things. You know, and religions in general, over over my lifetime to see what it is that you know, that was that made sense of what didn't make sense. And so that was that was that was the initial point right there that was early in my life.

Brandon Handley 25:16 Yeah, I mean, that's definitely young to be breaking away from your own kind of foundations right or even your family structure. So that's pretty cool. Let's, um, let's talk a little bit about, you know, the idea that you've got this mechanism for achieving awakening and enlightenment, right, let's talk a little bit about maybe what we can find inside of the book, blue collar, enlightenment.

Mikal Shumate 25:36 Okay, well, the, the, the essential point is that the, there's a, there's a whole process that I go through in the book to get to this point, but the essential point is, is that the, the best state of being is to be present. Totally present for the experience of your life. And what keeps us from being present is our memories, which are, which we indulge in the thoughts of our past, actions and, and, and things like that. And that's most its most destructive and most seriously understood. If you think about times, when things that happen to you, and it just rolls around in your head and rolls around and just won't let go will leave you alone, it just, you're just stuck back there at that moment in time. Well, the past is the past, it's gone, there's nothing you can do to change it, you can reiterate yourself experience within your mind as long as you want, it's not going to change anything in the future hasn't happened yet. So that's it, that's a you know, the reality is, is that we live our life, in moments by moments by moments. And so if we can be present for the moment, then what happens is everything changes because at that point, we are connected to our core self. And we are able to be guided to that thing, which is the most appropriate for us to be

Brandon Handley 27:31 what would you say some of the mechanisms are specifically to stay president way? How do you how do you break out of, of, you know, living in the past or in the future and bringing yourself to be fully present?

Mikal Shumate 27:44 Well, it is a it is a actually a very simple thing that is hard to do. That's what I find about the truth about most things is they're very simple. It's just that they seem to be hard to do. So what I was, you know, I I trained in for about 10 years in India, learning different kinds of meditations and processes and things like that. And one of the most influential people on that kind of brought me to the Enlightenment moment was a couple of people called, well, it started out with oneness universities, where I studied with Sri Bhagwan Shri Rama were the founders of that his son tree mine stopped.

Unknown Speaker 28:45 You can just go with a son,

Mikal Shumate 28:47 he and his wife prekmurje have taken over the, you know, the university and combine their operations to into what's called

Unknown Speaker 29:06 one one world Academy.

Mikal Shumate 29:12 It doesn't make any difference. What what he what he showed me was that there are only two states of being that you can possibly be in. You're either in, you're in a state of being happy or you're in a state of being stressed. So, understanding that what isn't if you take a look at what is it you can do for yourself to resolve stress in your life. The most effective thing that you can do is calm the mind. And how you learn to calm the mind. The best way that I know is to learn how to be silent, which is is what is what we call it meditation. Okay, so if you if you Put yourself in a position where you can be called, where you can slow your process down. And your awareness can watch the mind, then what happens when you start watching the mind is it starts, it doesn't like to be watched. So it will stop chitter chattering, in this stopping chitter chatter will happen a little bit at a time. And as you persist in the process, it becomes more and more and more until you can sit and be in silence. In in when you're sitting in Venus as your total awareness and experience of what of what is there for you. And that's, that's how you get to that point. After that, it's, you know, there's all kinds of things that can happen for you, who become aware of, in fact, you know, science is actually catching up with spirituality now. They're, they're aware that everything in the universe is connected. Well, all of us are connected to each other. What I do affects you, what you do affects me on some, at some degree in some level. And so when we're able to be in that space of silence, we're able to be in a place of total connectivity. And therefore we have access to the field of consciousness, which then can out of which we can then create whatever it is that we want. The reality is, is that we're doing that all the time. We just don't know that. That's the we're creating our life. We're, you know, as they say, we're co creators of the experience.

Brandon Handley 31:51 Yeah. 100%. I think that were, I love that you got the opportunity to spend, you know, 10 years in India, right. Do you think I mean, just out of curiosity, do you think that your experience is still possible for somebody else today? To go back? Well,

Mikal Shumate 32:06 it wasn't 10 continuous years, it was over a period of 10 years. Okay, gotcha,

Brandon Handley 32:11 gotcha. Well, I mean, even

Mikal Shumate 32:15 the most time I spent there was like about six weeks. Okay. Is it possible? Absolutely. Okay. You know, it given the current pandemic condition, we have to get through that. And then once we travel again, right, yes. All those things in India are still there, right? If you feel drawn to that,

Brandon Handley 32:36 right. 100% 100% I mean, you're you're out there. I think Monterey is got some places out there. I was just out there in LA not too long ago, where they've got the Self Realization Foundation, right. Yogananda

Mikal Shumate 32:51 fellowship,

Brandon Handley 32:52 fellowship. That's,

Mikal Shumate 32:53 that's in Encinitas. That's where I used to live.

Brandon Handley 32:55 Yes. I mean, you're right down. Did you did you did you spend some time there? So, okay, I mean, yeah. Okay.

Mikal Shumate 33:02 Most, most the time it was my biggest exposure was when I was young, you know, and we actually we, it's, it's actually, there's a state park there called Swamis beach. And that's, that that's because the locals used to call the place to Swamis place, you know? Who was there? Yeah. pazza Yogananda was a great influence on me very early in my life. Okay, his

Brandon Handley 33:31 book, right? I actually just ordered it. I've never read it. And I said, Fine. You know, I'll go ahead and read it. Yeah, it's, um, I don't know if you know this, but Steve Jobs actually handed out that book on his deathbed. So what was the Yeah, Steve Jobs died. He gave everybody in attendance, a copy of that book?

Mikal Shumate 33:49 Yeah. So I thought that was it. There's a lot of there's a lot to be learned from that. That's one of the one of the things that I read when I was younger, right.

Brandon Handley 34:02 You talked about, you know, just jumping back a little bit in the in being in the military, and processing, like kind of some childhood stuff. Was there anything like in there? What would you say you had the process? to kind of get through that, how did you do it?

Unknown Speaker 34:22 Well,

Mikal Shumate 34:32 this is a lot of things. Probably just, it just, it just gave me an opportunity to grow up, you know, to to transition out of childhood behaviors into a more disciplined adult behavior. At the same time, I recognized after a couple of years, that I didn't want to spend my life doing this. So I knew that Did you know that this was just a one time thing, it really was an opportunity for me to get away from home. My father was very abusive. When, when I got big enough that I could square off against them, he stopped being physically abusive to me, and just mentally abusive to me. And actually, it was so, so intense that I actually left home. When I was 16 years old, I left home. And but, you know, after a few months, out there on your own living at friends, homes, and that sort of thing, you know, it's like, oh, what are you gonna do with your life? Boy? Well, that's what I say, Well, you know, I could join the Navy.

Brandon Handley 35:49 Nice, nice. Well, look, I mean, you got it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, good for you to kind of kind of get out of there and away from that, right, split off from there. And I'm sure that that has a lot to do with what you needed to process kind of going counter that. And even kind of going forward, right? That's not the type of thing that just that just falls away super easily. So thanks for Thanks for answering that one. You know, you talk about the calming the mind silent meditation. And I'm just trying to imagine you out there working in the construction industry, pausing in the middle of the day, taking some deep breaths and saying no mistake or something like that. How did that how, how were you able to, you know, weave this into practical application on the job and that sort of thing. Just curious how it shows up there for you? Well,

Mikal Shumate 36:36 it's not like it was a continuous day to day process for most of my life. Once, once you achieve the ability to do this, then it's fairly easy to exist in that state. It doesn't mean that you don't have thoughts that the, the achievable goal is, like 70 to 80% of the time, you're in this state of presence, not 100% of the time, if I was there, 100% of the time, I probably would have no reason to stay here. You know, if I drop the body and go do something else. Yeah. Right. But so it's not like it's all the time and it we're talking about a process here for me, that has spanned a period of Firstly, 60 years. Michael, would

Brandon Handley 37:40 you say there's any way to accelerate that,

Mikal Shumate 37:42 I would say that now is the time to accelerate that, that that it is the energy and everything is changed the dynamic, the the the the push for ascension into higher dimensions and things like that, have brought in an opportunity for people to, to make these transformations in their life, and do it in a very short period of time.

Brandon Handley 38:10 What would you say? There's evidence of that, right? Where, where? Where would somebody See that? I guess, what's the basis of that statement for you?

Mikal Shumate 38:18 Well, it has to do with all the people I'm in contact with, and the things that I am continuously studying. But also from, from my experience, because it didn't all come together for me until, you know, 20 2017 2018 that's when I had my transformational experience. And, and discovered what this actually feels like. I mean, you know, this is really, we're talking about, we're talking about the mechanism for, for experience on this planet is feeling. So, you know, you pay attention to your feelings and how you feel how you how your body feels, how your attitude is, and you can accelerate this process now. And the only way that you're going to know how long that's going to take is to start doing it. But I'm, I'm very confident in in my observation of my environment and my experiences out in the world these days. shows me that yes, it's possible to make these transformations and make it you don't need to spend

Unknown Speaker 39:43 years in India

Mikal Shumate 39:44 a lifetime or you don't need to spend lifetimes doing

Brandon Handley 39:47 this. Sure. Sure. You got a couple things in there that that are intriguing to me, right. One is that you're an older male, right? And and, you know, born born and raised Western civilization, a different generation. And it's this idea of males dealing and with their feelings, right? How did you kind of come about that spot yourself to say, holy shit, I gotta I gotta pay attention to my feelings. Right? This is, this is this is the key. And then you know, so finding that key. So it's like you find the key, and you're looking for a lock, right? You're like, you're like, holy shit, here it is, the feeling is the key. What does this unlock and sounds like that, that unlocks this kind of an ongoing, enlightening experience, but just I just want to hear how you were able to get there and especially share it out with the males out there? Well,

Mikal Shumate 40:45 I have to say, first of all, I have been very emotionally aware, from very early in life. A lot of emotion was not very positive emotion. But it, it my awareness of how it affects my body and such like that. I've been aware of that for a long time, I consider myself to be very male, female, balanced. It's, I'm unusual for males. Most, most, most people are one way or the other. But I think that simply the process of being aware of what's there and acknowledging the truth of what's there is what transforms your ability to have, you know, a total experience.

Brandon Handley 41:55 Agreed, right, agreed 100%. But again, you know, it's, I guess, how did you be? What do you have a point in your life where you feel like you were always kind of emotionally aware and how it was impacting your body? Your daily life? Isn't a pinpoint for that, right? Because, again, this is something that I see over and over, especially in the western male civilization, right? Not understanding what emotions that they're feeling to begin with, right, nor understanding, you know, kind of the impact on the body, right? The, you know, if we look at alchemy, right, we are walking chemical creation factories, right, and what we feel, creates those chemicals that impact our body that impact, you know, our magnetic field and resonance, right, and on and on and on. So my question to you again, is, was there a point where you said, This, is it right, or you began to recognize those feelings and emotions and the impact that they were having? Or is it just always innate for you? And that's, that's

Mikal Shumate 43:03 its primary, it's primarily an eight. And there was a point where I recognize the impact of emotions on the body. And interestingly enough, it was when I was in college. It is one experience of many that stands out for me. I had been in a relationship and then had the gone through a relationship breakup. And it really hit my sore plexus. To the point where I had gut pain, like, I just couldn't understand why, you know, it was just, the emotion was so intense. And interestingly enough, the solution was hugging a tree. Somebody told me, you know, yeah, tell me. Tell me, the trees, trees will help you release this emotion. So I said, Okay, fine. I, you know, I've had enough of this. And I found a nice, I think it was a nice redwood tree or something like that big

Brandon Handley 44:17 tree,

Mikal Shumate 44:18 and just grabbed the whole thing and then held on for an hour or so. And it actually worked.

Brandon Handley 44:25 Wow. Well, you know, I've definitely seen that type of thing. I've got a bunch of trees in my backyard. I'm like, I kind of want to go try it out myself. But I want to do it in private, right, like, Okay, this tree and I have a moment, please. So, I enjoy that. And I also just, I see a sea kind of, and I'm familiar with this type of someone's this, this this gut punch right? Where your your feelings are just all centered right there. And just for that one moment, you're kind of your hidden pain, right? That solar plexus, right? Yes, and there's just there's nothing but that moment which, in honesty, you know, if you, you know, if I reflect back on I'm like, there's a moment where I was truly present to myself right truly present to what was happening within me. At that time, I wouldn't have addressed it. In the same way, I would have just addressed it as this sucks. But at the same time, that's what I was present for was just that feeling emotion and listening to my body. Right, and just kind of coming, you know, surrendering to that moment? space. So how can you use good ideas? If you're going through this type of thing? Michael, just I mean, another one, if you said there was a keystone to your entire program, you know, sounds like sounds a little bit like, you know, calling the mind awareness be present? Are there any other key stones or just really revelatory moments? What do you do even recall? Like, when you recognize the whole puzzle had kind of come together for you? You know, you're talking 2017 18 you're like, Eureka.

Mikal Shumate 46:07 Well, yes, there, there was a thing I was. I was studying at the One World Academy. And, and they were taking us through a process. And that process was called

Unknown Speaker 46:31 the

Mikal Shumate 46:40 minds, the mind slips. Oh, mercy. Google, will be

Brandon Handley 46:55 able to edit that out. And yeah, just a space. But there's a process that you were going through, you don't remember a specific process? And that's all right, can you talk a little bit about like, what happened during the process, and then maybe, what the well actually what

Mikal Shumate 47:09 happens, what happens in the process is they they take you through a meditation where your where your consciousness has expanded out into what they call the, the limitless field of consciousness. And you can, if you can experience that space, then what happens is, there is a space where there are no limitations. And if you can focus on one single thing and focus on a clear intention for that, then you can create that intention manifesting. So

Brandon Handley 47:59 do you have a recollection of maybe the first time you realize was this the first time you realize that you were capable of being the CO creator and manifesting those things? Or do you realize that before?

Mikal Shumate 48:11 Well, what manifested what made this sink in it actually like to be honest with you took me it took me months to really realize what had to happen. But at the time, I had a very serious cancer related growth on my cheek. It was it covered it covered a good portion of my cheekbone, and it was probably a couple inches in diameter. And so my, my wish my intention was that my face heel, and this, I mean, this looked like a charred burned mass on my face. And but we did that meditation is the great soul sync meditation. That's what is called the great soul sync meditation. So available on YouTube.

Brandon Handley 49:08 We got that one out right now. Right? Hey, guys, here's the secret. Oh, wait, I forget what it is. But good luck out there.

Mikal Shumate 49:17 Hey, I'm 75 years old. What do you want, you know? But anyway, that was about four days before the course ended. By the time I left, at the end of those four days, that great big mass had shrunk to about the size of a dime. And three days after I got back home, which was about five days later, it was completely healed, because I had an appointment with my dermatologist. And he looked at that and he said, My God is incredible. And so it's like okay, Miracle, right? Well, we can create miracles. And that's when I discovered that process and what it felt like to be connected into that space. I mean, this is the most important thing is what what it felt like. Because when you have a feeling, you now have something you can relate to other than just a thought. So you can, you can be aware of that thing when you when you get back there again, you go, Okay, I'm back here again,

Brandon Handley 50:38 Michael, what's up? What's the miracle feeling? Right? Like, I mean, what does that feel like? Tell us a little about

Mikal Shumate 50:43 that. It's, it's, uh, it was, it was, it was a soul premiere, it was a slow dawning process, that of what actually happened after I had a few months to, to, you know, live with it, and be aware of it and have people talking to me about it, and that sort of thing. And, and it's kind of like, okay, yeah, this is something that is possible. And, from that, in the experience of learning how to meditate to the point where I can slow down in inactive consciousness where I can be present, you know, those things came all out of that experience. And for me, it's, it's a, it's easy to recognize when my thoughts are running. And I can stop the train. And I can be present, I can move, actually, you know, I mean, this is, this also involves some physical awareness in the heart is the key to the whole thing. So it's like, there is a, that's where our connection to sources, there's a little, little tiny space in the heart, where that little spark of of source resides in us. And so connecting with that source connecting with that spot, and you're able to do that by being present, you've moved, you can actually, actually, you can move your consciousness anywhere in your physical body that you want. I don't know how much time we have. But I, I learned, I learned that when I went through the string, II St. Earhart seminar training back in the 70s, early 80s. We had an instructor who had a scar on his face, and it was an ugly scar. And he says, I'm going in this weekend to have had this scar produced fixed. He says, I'm going to do it without anesthesia. And he says, and that's because if you because I know that if you put your consciousness right there at the point of pain, pain has the job is to tell you that something's going on here that needs your attention. If you put your attention there, if you put your awareness and your consciousness at that point, he will not hurt to pain will have recognized pain will recognize that it's done its job and it will not hurt. This guy did that process, I discovered the truth of that as, as in most things, through my own experience, when I cut myself and slice my finger in, you know, a work related kind of thing. And, you know, I bashed it, it was throbbing in it, so it's okay. Little mind pops up and says, Well, what about that thing? That guy said, Oh, well, let's try that. Okay, so I just focused my attention, put my awareness and my consciousness into that point. And it's not hurting. Because it Okay, this works.

Brandon Handley 53:52 Right, this works. And I think that I think that a lot of times, right? It's, it's when somebody tells you something like that, or teaches you, you know, you kind of want to call bs you like, I will bs until you actually experience it yourself. Right. And it's one of those things that can only happen internally, and it's subjective. So it's difficult for somebody else to outside of you believe that right? unless they've had that experience themselves.

Mikal Shumate 54:21 Yeah, I think I think it's where healthy skepticism comes in.

Unknown Speaker 54:24 We don't for sure,

Mikal Shumate 54:25 allow the possibility that this thing may be, in fact true. But don't just become a believer actually branch out and be in become a knower right

Unknown Speaker 54:41 now and yeah, no,

Brandon Handley 54:42 this thing is true. For sure, for sure. You know, when you're talking about being a co creator, you know, I was definitely skeptical of that kind of thing before until, you know, I've had some experiences myself where there's just been co creation, right, like, Wow, I can't believe that happened almost identically to What I saw my mind with great ease and just kind of showed up in my life. Right? And and that's, I mean, it's pretty crazy. And you have to be willing to look for it right? You have to kind of be willing to look for the evidence of that. And all those other things, one more thing for you kind of before we tie it up, right? This is the book is for ordinary people. Right? And I'm just curious what you mean by ordinary people,

Mikal Shumate 55:26 people that have no spiritual training, particularly spiritual training. I try to keep all the blue stuff out of the book. No, it's because I don't want to put people in a position where they have to decide whether this stuff is real or not, you know, I don't want to turn people off, it's a process a very simple process of understanding our relationship to our existence on this planet, and how we can change our experience of that get into the point where we're living in that, what krishnaji calls a beautiful state as compared to be in a stressful state. So if you're experiencing negative emotions, you're angry, you're, you're sad, you're having you know, those kinds of experiences, you're stressed. That's one way to live life. The other way to live life is to, to recognize that those things are just thoughts in your mind. And it's not you. So that you can and then to recognize an experience that you can be something other than that. And, you know, most people have had some kinds of, you know, really positive experiences in their life that they can relate to, to that sense, that feeling of being that way. And in my book, I take you through all the background understanding of how to get to the point where you can know that this is possible, and then it's up to you to to do it.

Brandon Handley 57:07 That's awesome. That's awesome. I love it, man. What you know, and why now? Right? Why? Why? Why this book? Why now for you?

Mikal Shumate 57:16 Just, it's how it evolved?

Brandon Handley 57:18 Yeah. Okay,

Mikal Shumate 57:19 I gotta do what I got to the point where I, where I understood it. I just was, I was just was guided, to be honest with you, I was just guided to, okay. You know, I've been, I've been writing these pieces and things like that, you know. And now it's time to put all this stuff together. And because as I go, as I go along, in my training and my experiences and things like that I you know, kept it not necessarily a journal, but I kept a log would write things, things would be inside ones be inspired by I'd write it down. And so all that stuff I brought together into the book, and even the name of the book came to me, you know, I was just like, I was told, look all enlightenment. Let's, let's name your book. Okay.

Brandon Handley 58:10 I think I think it's a great name for the book. And I, you know, I'm pretty excited. I haven't read it yet myself. But I think that I think that what you're talking about is going to speak to the blue collar people to those ordinary people to somebody who's maybe had one or two experiences and doesn't know how to kind of pin it down, right doesn't know how to recreate those experiences. And it sounds to me like, you're helping someone to, again, decipher the mysteries, right? And some of those mysteries are what was that feeling that I was feeling and how did this happen? Right, and then being able to pin it down, recreate it and and implement it for the rest of their lives that said about what it boils down to?

Mikal Shumate 58:48 That's it's a path to do that. Yeah, for sure. Why can you just all you have to do is do the work?

Brandon Handley 58:54 Do the work, right. I mean, that's, that's all that's always the challenge, right? That's the challenge is actually doing the damn things. Right. Dude is a simple,

Mikal Shumate 59:02 simple process. That is hard to do. For sure. So this

Brandon Handley 59:07 helps you to do that. Where Where can I send people to find out more about you and this book?

Mikal Shumate 59:14 Okay, well, I have a website. It's love, like consciousness.com. My book is available to my website. It's available on Amazon. It's available on Melbourne press, who is the publisher of it? And there's a number of things on the website. recently have happened. articles that have been published and that sort of thing that might interest people.

Brandon Handley 59:43 Okay. Would you call those kind of just add ons to the book, right? Be like, hey, since I've written the book, you might want to you might you might want to find out about this. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Well, great supplemental material can be found on love, light and consciousness as well as the full book, Michael, I just want to say thank you so much. much for joining us today on spiritual dopes Ben great.

Mikal Shumate 1:00:03 Hey, if you send me a link, I'll put it on my website.

Brandon Handley 1:00:07 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

What do you do when you are diagnosed with cancer?

Do you curl up and ask why God why?

Or do you look for ways to serve?

I have known Allan Dubon for quite some time now, a few years at least...

A year ago at this time, we touched base for a brief conversation, and he asked me what he could do for the podcast I had been working on... and while we chatted, he told me that he had Leukemia.

My mind imploded a bit, and it was a continuation of his regular self... someone who is out there to serve you no matter what your field or background is.

Take a listen to hear where Allan learned how to give, even if, especially if you have nothing, and the impact it can have on your life.

Brandon Handley 0:00 4321 Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here on with my good friend Alan do bond Allen has had quite a bit of impact on on the result actually, Alan, I reached out to you. When I thought of spiritual dope, I was like spiritual dope. And Alan and I'd worked together on the prosperity practice when I did that. I was like, I want to do this thing you're like, Well, are you sure you really want to do the same? Or is that just another shiny object? I'm like, No, bro.

Unknown Speaker 0:34 I'm in. I'm

Brandon Handley 0:35 all in. And Alan was part of giving me the green light. And I think what's really fun out is just as earlier this week, I'd interview somebody else that has been a big part of of helping to create the space that I'm in today. Right? So I'm really glad that what I'm able to do is share some of the people that have helped me to get to where I am today, with everybody else, right? Like, you know, it's not like, it's not like I did this by myself. Right. And I think that's really important to know, like, I didn't do this by myself.

Allan Dubon 1:07 Like, I love how, how this has worked out way better than prosperity practice. You know?

Brandon Handley 1:13 Yeah, it's interesting. It's so interesting. But before before we get into all that, right? Before we get into any of that, actually, and this is about you. This is about you today. Let's give the audience a little bit of you know, who is our bond? Let's get the let's get the background. Who are you? What are you doing here? What's

Allan Dubon 1:28 up? You know, I would have answered this question differently about a year ago, considering and I know, we'll get into all that. So I won't deep dive into that yet. But I'm really what what I've learned that I am, is I'm a guide for people to change their lives for the better. And I tend to go down the business route for that, you know, I came from, from immigrant parents. And, you know, my dad took off when I was nine, and, you know, poverty, you know, you can call a lot of it a sob story kind of stuff, you know, the other sad points that that are there and, and I just kind of use that to drive me to work harder, and promise to never be back in that by my own choice. You know, so yeah, so do you like business consulting and, and connecting with amazing people like you, and just try to serve the world with my talents as best I can.

Brandon Handley 2:30 Hello, brother, and you really do you do a great job of it? And you know, by connecting with others? I've never once seen you be like this over marketing guy. Maybe you were at one point. I don't know. I know. I was like a man. I was like, hey, look at all my shit. I was like, hey, and like, you know, here's 20 questions, engage, engage, engage, engage, engage. And then like, you know, fuck it. Anyways. You know, I think but I think that there's a place for that. Everybody has to learn some way. But I appreciate what you do, how you go about it. And I think you're the genuine, genuine deal. So that being said, what I like to start us off with is the idea that there's somebody out there who is listening in and they're listening for, like, you know, source talks through you and I right, yeah, listening to what source has to say to them? Through you today. What is that message?

Allan Dubon 3:27 Oh, that's big man. For me, it's don't wait. Don't wait to do the things that you've been saying you're going to do. And it really comes from, like this past year that that have gone through March of last year, which we're in the end of January here. So just shy of a year, I found that I had leukemia. And, man, you want to talk about a gut check, you know, and I come from the world of medical lab science, I actually worked in the laboratory for the cancer clinic hospital I went to a couple of years ago. So you know, just kind of knowing that, you know, we all know we're gonna die at some point, but we all kind of think it's further along. It's another time and you know, unless you're sick, right? But you're not sick. I was doing great. I was losing weight. I was getting healthy, working out every day. And all of a sudden, everything just changed in my world stop. And so I realized I may not have the time that I thought I had to accomplish the things that I wanted to accomplish. And so for me, it's don't wait, get get to it.

Brandon Handley 4:51 Yeah, I love that. I think another message that you are a big proponent of as well as is, you know, stop playing small All right. So let's talk a little bit about again, you know, let the don't wait, right? What are some of the things that you felt like you were waiting on that you felt like you had time to accomplish? And then like, you know, going through the sickness, you know, what were some of those, you know, things got hammered home, right? Like, oh, shit, if I get, look, I, you may not have been this guy, man. Dear God, if I get out of this, I want to do this. There's no need to peanut butter sandwiches, right? So, you know, what were some what were some of the promises, like maybe you made to yourself while you laid there and gone through this? And then, you know, where do you see those going?

Allan Dubon 5:44 Yeah, part of it was realizing a little bit more of what's important. So I've gotten kind of caught up in my identity as a provider. And I think that happens to men a lot, you know, at least from my experience. And so I was really pushing that provider thing, you know, my wife would, she was very good at saying, Hey, we need you. And that's okay, well, let me calm down the business a little bit, you know, rearrange some stuff at work, and, you know, take me a couple weeks to wind that down to, to be able to give them more time. And sometimes that was the frustration, right? I'm doing this for you guys, for my wife and for my kids. And, you know, I think sometimes when you you come from poverty, and you get a chance to not be there, you drive that part home, but you forget, I may still be here, but I can be an absentee Dad, you know, and I don't think I got that far. But, but I definitely could have fallen into that trap, you know. So that's kind of one of the big things that that came from that and then, you know, not waiting to travel and stuff. Like, my wife and I talked about traveling for a long time. And, and it was, well, we'll do this, we'll do that. You know, and, and now it's okay, as soon as things get a little bit, right with my health a little bit, you know, thank goodness, I'm cancer free. Now. Now, it's just getting getting more strength back in my body, and getting what I like to lovingly call my puppy shots, and get my vaccines because it wipes out your whole immune system. And so, once I get vaccinated, a little bit of strength, and we kind of recover a little bit from the the financial hit, that comes with something like this. It's traveling, you know, so that's gonna be a big thing for us. And then I think the third biggest lesson was, get out of debt. Like, you know, we didn't have crazy amounts of debt. But I'll tell you what, when you're, when you're looking at it, and you say, if I die, I wasn't afraid of death, I was free to leave my family crippled with debt and other stuff that I took care of. And we could go through, you know, as when things are normal. Now I'm very focused on we're going to get out of debt, so that if anything ever happens, we don't have to worry about that. No,

Brandon Handley 8:24 no, that's powerful. Right? It's powerful. I love the idea, right? You know, you always you always putting something off, because of, you know, when we have enough or when is the right time, right. And then there's also the idea of, you know, just like you said, you know, what else is important as you know, to have that family time, right, you that's something that you can never get back. Right? You can never you can never get that back. And I know that I'm guilty of, you know, kind of the same thing you're talking about sometimes it's ways too far, one way, right? The pendulum is always swinging, right? It's like, is there too much time with them? Is this forced time and they can tell like they can tell like you're just making time just to make time? Right? Like, they're like, No, just go away. We don't even want to hang out with you. Right? And then there's a time when you know, you're everybody's there and it's a it's a good time, right? Like, I know that we spent last night watching Ant Man like all together just like impromptu, right. And it was just it was just great. Like there was no it was no no force to it. And everyone's just kind of chillin and I'm remember, just now on the fucking couch watching anime hanging out, right because that was great. Let's talk about like, the spiritual side of it right? Because I know that again. We were talking a little bit before here. I love that you brought this up like how you were, you were forced to kind of determine whether or not like what you believe spiritually was showing up in your world outside and it caused you to kind of take a deep look at that. Something I'm definitely curious about, especially going through what you went through, right? having known you, you know, a little bit prior to and a little bit after him, I'm definitely curious to see kind of what's changed for you in that in that aspect.

Allan Dubon 10:12 Yeah. You know, it's, it's one of those things that pretty much covered your bullshit, right? Like, where? Where is it? Where is it Bs and where is it real? You know, and, and I think sometimes it becomes that trial of your faith, as far as you got to prove it. And it's never perfect, right? Just kind of like life. And you know, you're never the perfect Dad, you're never the perfect husband. But you can be a really damn good one, you know?

Unknown Speaker 10:38 Sure. Real quick.

Brandon Handley 10:39 Absolutely. Real quick, though. Do you have a faith background? Do you have a faith based background?

Allan Dubon 10:44 Yeah, yeah. I was born when I was born, we were Catholic. And, you know, I think that's a default setting on Latinos. Know, that, you know, everybody we knew was Catholic and all that kind of stuff. And then we moved to Utah. And we became LDS, you know, are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And, and that's been my, my background. You know, and it's been really interesting. Because I don't fit necessarily that mold as as ultra conservative ultra, this, you know, ultra that. But it's, it's brought a lot of great value to me, and a lot of a lot of where my understanding comes from, you know, and so, you know, when when I was told what happened, you know, hey, you've got your white blood cell count 68,000. Well, like I said, I'm a lab scientist who is trained in cancer stuff in blood cancers. I told the doctor, I'm like, Well, shit, that's cancer. I know. She goes, yep, she goes, I can't tell you. Because you know, you got to do all the confirmatory, especially, but you and I both know, it's cancer. I was like, yep. Okay, cool. Here we go. You know, and at first, everything happens so fast, you don't have time to think you're scared, but you don't quite know what you're scared of. it because it's happening so fast. But once I got into the hospital, I'm sitting there, and you know, you get a long time even, even though my wife was there. She's in her head with her thoughts. I'm in my head with my thoughts. You know, we'll hold hands and stuff, but sometimes, it's like, she wasn't there. For both ways, right? Like to her I wasn't there. And

Brandon Handley 12:39 yeah, man, look, I mean, you guys just both like, speculating on what the hell is? What's the future? What's the future hold right now? Because, you know, somebody says cancer, and you're like, well, I don't know that I'm gonna have all the time that I need to get everybody to where they got to get to and do all these things. You know, house, you know, vice versa, right? Like in here, like how, you know, how do I get through this? Right? How do I get through this stick with my family? I still never been to Brazil, and I gotta go. Right? Right. Like, I never make Carnival shit. I always make carnival. Right. And I never went like, I mean, you know, Jesus, if you saved me now.

Allan Dubon 13:18 You know, and, you know, funny you say that. And I and, and I don't think it's bad. If that's where you default to, like, Hey, I'm going to promise to do this. You know, we hear about stuff from religious folks, they religious leaders that have done that, and that's how they change their life, you know. But, but I really didn't want to fall into that I wanted to be as I guess, real as I could about it, you know, definitely promised to be a little bit better. You know, obviously, you know, I think that's human default. But, but I didn't want to negotiate with God. Because because in my opinion, it's already kind of written out a little bit. You know, I'm not a, I'm not a no matter what I do is going to end up this way. But but very much like, I think I don't, you know, so I'm not gonna win, right. I

Brandon Handley 14:06 mean, there's the there's God's got a plan for everybody kind of thing. Right.

Allan Dubon 14:10 Yeah. And so, you know, just kind of going through that. And it was one of the biggest things to me was, I've always said that I wasn't afraid of death. Maybe the mechanism of death. I don't know. Fire. Not so happy.

Unknown Speaker 14:25 Right, right. I think we all kind of go out in our sleep, right?

Allan Dubon 14:28 Yes, yes.

Brandon Handley 14:28 I'd like it to be asleep, painless. I mean, or, you know, whatever. big truck one

Allan Dubon 14:33 or the other. For sure. You know, so that's kind of where I was like, Okay, I'm here I am. I am a little nervous. But I had to, I had to think about it, right. And so it's like, well, I can't control that. If I die. That's not up to me. We can do everything we can on this side. But at the end, it's not up to me. And so it'll be The adventure and so if I die, and what I believe is true, then there's happiness on the other side. And it's a little sad because I'm leaving my family, but I'll know that they'll join me later, you know? Sure. If it's not true and not we don't exist after then I don't know better. So that's fine, too, you know? So, you know, there's there's that element, and then, but mostly it was, you know, we talked a little bit about this before was, is this a curse on me? Or is this a blessing on me? Is it all bad? Like, where's our attitude? You know? And, and I'll be honest, I went through a little bit of the Why me? God, I'm a good person, I help people. Sure, you know, and, and then I started thinking of like, well, Michelle's, my wife was like, Michelle's mom died of colon cancer. And from everything I hear about her, she's an amazing person better than me. Right? So why, why would I be better than her? In this negotiation, if you don't diagnose? Good, you know what I mean? Right, right. And I've met other people that I know, that are amazing people who cross the line, and they went to the other side, and so sure, you know, so there was that part. But I think what really pulled me out of this pity spiral that I like to call it is I, I went back to some of my core principles, and it was what do you do? When things suck, you do what you can, and then you serve others. And I learned that from my mom, we didn't have lots to eat, you know, growing up and, and stuff like that we get some pantry help from churches, or from the, you know, the state people that do that kind of stuff, right. But I remember she got connected with a local grocery store. And they, they were just throwing out their, their bread that had like a day left or whatever, you know, they they old or they day left or something like that. Sure. And she wouldn't talk to the baker and said, hey, why do you guys throw this out there like, well, it's only got a day and we can't sell it, you know, and we got new stuff coming out. So once or short, she got that connected to where we would go up there, we didn't have a car. So we would take these little push cart things, walk up to the store about a mile away. And the baker would give us the day old stuff so that we could give it away. Other folks who didn't have a lot of money, right? Well, that turned out to be so good. And my mom connected with enough people that after a while, they were sending a small box car full of a bunch of groceries that they were just throwing out. Yeah. And they knew my mom wasn't going to go sell it right now is the big thing. And so we were helping people from all over the state, you know, within reason, sugar, driving, distance and all that, but we didn't have some time stuff for ourselves to eat. And here we were helping other folks. You know, and I remember talking to my mom about it, and she says you serve others when when things get bad. You serve others. Yeah. And she goes when one of us eats we all eat. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, you know, and so when I when I got that pity in when I was in the hospital, and I was in there during the big COVID part, right? Yeah. But my wife was able to be there right at first. So that made it easier, scary, but easier. And then the second time I went in they they said nobody can be there with you. So now truly alone with my thoughts. Yeah, that's where it can get. Kinda.

Brandon Handley 18:41 Well, that's what I mean. I remember, I think you reached out to me. We reached out, we chatted with each other a little bit while you were in there, right? You're like, how can I help you? And I was just like, Yeah, I just love that. That was your attitude, right? Like, there you were, there's really no answers for you. Right? You got no answers. And you're going out kicking. Kicking right? Like it just it didn't, I'm sure there were there must have been moments where you know, you were just down, right? There's no, there's no way. You kind of get through all that you don't have a couple of those moments. But I love what you're saying they're they're right. When you're down and out. You know, you do do what you can for yourself that you know what you're in control of, and then you know, try to serve others. that's a that's a great, great way to be.

Allan Dubon 19:34 Yeah, and it's not easy, man. Like, and I don't say that, like, Oh, I'm awesome, because it wasn't easy, nothing like that. But sometimes I had to fake it and just try, you know, and and so, one of the things I was like, You know what, there's about 13 to 15 people that visit me every day, you know, between the doctors and the CNAs and the cleaning folks and you know everything that everybody comes in As I said, they're not always the same. It's a learning institution. You know, it's connected to the university and stuff. And so we get different kinds of folks coming in, and then some of the same people. And I thought, you know, let's learn their stories, because we get so caught up in Well, they're here to take care of me. Right? Yeah, that's their job. Right. And they do it very amazingly, by the way, shout out to Huntsman Cancer. Nice, because their people are just miles above any. I've worked in healthcare, my whole life, pretty much. And these guys are just miles above everybody else. But you know, it's still their job. Right? They're worried about their college credits their kids, their everything, right, for sure. And so I started to talk to them about the stuff that I was good at, you know, business and Future Planning and missing this and, and really helped me take my mind off of me. Sure. Self beneficial, you know, right. But we talked about their goals, and, you know, they come back and they didn't have tons of time. So this little 10 minutes thing, they're hooking me up or whatever, right on. And it's like, Cool, well, how's your classes? You know, there's a guy that that was in a freaking concentration camp. Or not concentration. When they're going away from like, a refugee, thank you refugee. See, there's my cancer fog, but I thought it was weird sometimes. But yeah, so he's in a refugee camp for several years, right, came over to the states started, started the process, you know, he started school, and there were some other friends that came with him from that camp. And, you know, life happened to him, you know, he got married and some other stuff, and now is not married. And, you know, so to get a little rough honey, he stopped his schooling, and he's like, ah, maybe I'm too old. Maybe I'm to this, like, Look, dude, let's get you back in school. You know, like, it's still your goal. So you had four years that, that didn't go the right way. Sure, I still gonna keep living. So those years are gonna keep ticking let's and so then he signed back up for school. That's awesome. He came back and thanked me and I can't I just can't tell you how amazing that felt that he was. I mean, I hate school. So I feel like I punished him. But you know, and as they know, it's gonna get his dreams and his career going and he wants to go be a nurse practitioner eventually. And so, you know, get some back on track to do that, you know, and talking to others about their life and their heart stories. And, you know, one of the nurses that told her she needs to read a book because she's had some siblings died, and her mom's died. And I think her dad was still around, but it was kind of sketchy. You know, how that went. And so, but she was pushed through all of that. And statistically, she shouldn't be there, right? statistically, she should be in the hood, just being poor and, and working a menial job. Right, and then falling into, or falling into the same traps that her parents were into, you know, right. But But she broke through, you know, and so, just kind of things like that, that, that really opened my eyes to, hey, yeah, they're health care workers. But but they're people first,

Brandon Handley 23:25 right? Right. Now,

Unknown Speaker 23:27 it's so easy, it's

Brandon Handley 23:28 so easy to lose sight of that, right? It's so easy to lose, you know, these people are here to save my ass. Right? And you forget that they're, you know, you can, you can easily forget that. There are people to just like you're saying, but, you know, I'm gonna lean back in again, one more time into, you know, kind of the serving people right to take, take it off yourself, even if even if, you know, sometimes you have to fake it, right? I just had this conversation this past week, like, even if you have to fake it a little bit. Yeah, even if it's not even coming from the most genuine place. It's still a lot better than just about anything else you could be doing. Right? Like even if you're like, even if you're certain, like in some point, at some point, it becomes there's a tilting point right? You know, for like a while here. I mean, we talked about this from when I when I did follow him for the rest of us, right? For a while there, it was like I'm doing this for all the wrong reasons. But then at some point, it's like, I'm like, that's just becomes who I am. And now I'm doing it for the right reasons. So it's just kind of like it's like a training mechanism training tool, right. So that now when you go out there and you're like, I'm, I'm serving to serve is there's really not this like there's not an mo right, there's not like something behind an agenda behind it. Right. And when you start doing that, like you start feeling like you know, sounds like you were feeling right, like you're connected, there's your your your your your mind is taken off of all of your woes when you're focused on helping somebody else. You know,

Allan Dubon 24:57 I've always well, not always When I learned this principle, I created a little saying it's, you become what you act. And so, and it's not a fake act, it's, if I want and I learned at first with weight loss stuff. You know, if I keep eating like a 350 pound man I'm gonna stay in. That's where I was right? So 350 was my number. And I'm like, if I want to weigh 180 or 200, I got to eat and move, like a person who's 180 or 200. And I'm not there yet, so I have to act like that. And am I gonna mess up? You betcha. I love ice cream. You know, you can poison me with peanut butter and ice cream. Those are my two. My two big things right. But that

Brandon Handley 25:47 ice creams are poisonous. No.

Allan Dubon 25:51 But, but it's okay. I messed up today. I had a big bowl of ice cream or whatever. Yeah, well, guys that weigh 200 eat ice cream. Yeah. But they don't eat it every single day. And they don't you know, when they enjoy a big indulgent thing, they might go for a run or walk longer. Wait, lift longer, right. And so it started being that it's, it's what you act you become. And so you know, that that's kind of, like

Brandon Handley 26:21 buying 100% man or buying 100% you know, me, this is again, you know, the exact process that I went through with my father and for the rest of us. And also just with anybody else out there that you're listening to like anybody you're you know, mentorship through even like, through all the online videos, YouTube and all the other stuff. Like, you start taking that on everything that this goes back to those sayings like you know, your weight. Are you Wayne Dyer fan? Yes or no?

Unknown Speaker 26:49 Yeah. Yeah. So

Brandon Handley 26:50 he's got that story. Like, you know, he asked me to say, so if I ask Alan, like, when I squeeze an orange, what am I gonna get out of it?

Allan Dubon 26:57 Oh, I don't know him that well.

Brandon Handley 26:58 So it says like, the answers on shoes, right, but like,

Allan Dubon 27:01 Oh, well, that he had something more special.

Brandon Handley 27:06 So the deal is, so that's all you can get out of it. Because that's all you know, that's all I can ever come out of it. Right? This is an orange juice. That's, that's what's inside of it. So the other idea though, is like, whatever you keep putting inside of yourself, that's all it's gonna be able to come out. Right. So this content that you're trying whoever it is that you're trying to become whoever it is that you're acting as if as I'm an acting as if you like, this is who I am now. That's all that can come out. Right? And you you act as if you, you consume all that and and you put all that in you and that's eventually quite literally all that can come out. It's It's It's uncanny. Right? And I think that it takes a takes a little bit of time. But once you make that decision and start to step into it, like you're, you're you're that 180 pound man that you're talking about, right? Yeah.

Allan Dubon 27:53 Yeah, I had a teacher tell me because I was I was going through some pity cycles stuff. You know, my dad's gone. We don't have a lot of money. And, you know, yeah, like, like, stacking up all the stuff that is against me

Brandon Handley 28:06 are now pretty limitations.

Allan Dubon 28:08 Yeah. And, and he told me, you know, you choose to be happy. And my young brain, I didn't say this to him out of respect from inside. I'm like, EFF you, dude. You got family, you got her perfect life a beautiful wife. You guys make money here as a teacher, so I thought they made money. Boy was Iraq. But, you know, so my head, his life was perfect. Sure. Well, he had a kid that was going through some stuff. And you know, it just wasn't perfect. Like I thought it was and he's not making the kind of money he should because he's a freakin teacher, you know. And so, you know, it all kind of clicked several years later, but I, for some reason, I always remembered him saying that. And then so I was still in that bad cycle. And I said, Okay, I'm going to choose to be happy. So I literally woke up and said, I'm going to be happy. And I felt like such a liar. You know, which I was, I wasn't happy. But I kept saying that every morning I kept saying and then all sudden, I just started being more positive. Sure, nice. My circumstances didn't change. They're still poor kid and, you know, all the others crap that that are talked about, but I chose to be happy. And so I think that's part of that was the beginning foundation of this stuff that I've learned and magnified through my cancer experience, you know,

Brandon Handley 29:42 which, you know, you talked about being called on your Bs, right, like, on what you believe? What were some of the things you felt like you were called on and your spirituality and like, you know, what, what kind of maybe got strengthened and how you apply that to this.

Allan Dubon 29:55 Um, part of it was, was talking to God right and So, to me, I don't think you have to necessarily get on your knees and, you know, Dear Heavenly Father kind of thing, like, I do that. But I also think that you can talk way more often. Like, there's times when you go talk to your parent that it's a little more formal. And then there's other times you're like, Hey, Mom, you know, what do you mean by this? You just throw it out there. And let her let her ruminate on that a while and she gets back to you. You know? So it's a little bit more of that, right? Like, and so it was, I did that more. And then it's like, why did I ever let that go? You know, and not that it was gone completely, but I wasn't doing it as much as like, I got an open channel, you know, like what you say, you know, God source universe, like, I love that, you know, because you can, you can label whatever you want. And

Brandon Handley 30:52 look at what it is, whatever it is, whatever, it clears that channel for you. Right? Like, if if you've got to tune in to Fox to get your information, you got to like, I mean, I don't care how you, you know what channel you call it, right? But it's the one it's, it's a filtration system, right? Your mind is a filtration system, right? And you're in like, for a lot of a lot of other people like the word God is just it's a bad fucking filter, right? Yeah. So if I call it universe, I'm totally Oh, universe. Well, that's different. Right? Like, let me tune into that. I feel it's right. So. So there's just there's like this open lane of something that's never been filtered. Right. So so that way that just like, like, it's just a brilliant conduit. So that's why that's, that's my reasoning and logic. I'm getting closer to being able to use God myself, like just, you know, being comfortable with it, because it's not something I was ever comfortable with. Yeah, but I'd like to hear so tell me more about like, what are some of the conversations you have? Right? What's some of the feedback?

Allan Dubon 31:59 It was, it was a lot of, you know? Am I fulfilling my purpose? Am I being good enough to people? You know, am I loving my wife enough? Like, you know, I'm thinking here my time, my might, my temp, my ticket might get stamped here in a second, you know, and I get on that train to the other side, you know, and so, did I do enough to show my wife I loved her, I cared about her was a good enough man to her. You know, just all these things? And same thing with my children? Did I teach them enough lessons that they're going to be? Okay. Like, like, if I go out? Yeah, they're gonna suffer some, and they're gonna be sad, and they're gonna know, but that I give them enough tools to work through their life, to learn things to be good to other folks and to become good members of society, you know, and be able to take care of their families. Did I do enough of that? You know, did I serve my fellow man enough? Or was it all lip service? I could put it on Instagram, you know,

Brandon Handley 33:14 call me out, bro.

Allan Dubon 33:19 Lot of that kind of stuff. And

Brandon Handley 33:21 so what was I mean, you know what, you know? What were some of the responses that you felt like you got?

Allan Dubon 33:30 I felt that I was told that I had done well with what I knew. And that I was going to be given a chance to be even better.

Brandon Handley 33:40 So you had a sense of hope? Yeah. That message me a response message, right?

Allan Dubon 33:47 Yeah, there's times where I'm like, I think my I think I'm hoping I think I'm telling myself,

Brandon Handley 33:53 I got the wrong line.

Allan Dubon 33:55 That was me saying to me, like, you're not gonna die, you know? Cuz that's a great

Brandon Handley 34:00 question, though. Right? How do you differentiate from you know, this is a, you know, I'm sure it's a slippery slope, but like, how do you differentiate the response that you get from yourself versus when you get from God?

Allan Dubon 34:12 To me it was, or at least what I felt right. It was a feeling. Yeah, it was. It was a feeling that I didn't feel like I was doing it for me. Like being told that I was going to live through this sometimes felt scarier than Hey, you're checking out in too much. Yeah, cuz you got a lot of bills you're racking up.

Brandon Handley 34:34 You're gonna have to show up for like, you're like really, really? Well, you know, listen, if I just finished up this pudding and, and roll out like, I'm cool with that. Because Yeah, because there's there must have been some of that thought too, right? Like, be like, holy shit. Like, when I come out of this, like, I might even be destitute, I'm going to be worse off like, yo, you know, the struggles are going to be real, right? Like, what's the quality of life going to be if I if I if I do get to live This Yeah,

Allan Dubon 35:01 yeah, those are all real. That's the not pretty part of it. Right? Not that there's really any part of it right? Yeah. But you know what I mean, though, like, like, there's stuff for you like, Yes, I got to ring the bell, because that's kind of a big thing in cancer stuff is when you when you're told you're sorry, my daughter calls me when somebody rings it. But But, uh, that's funny on a ring. You know, it's, it's one of those things. It's like, okay, yeah, I get a ring the bell and I get to say, you know, cancer free or I finished my transplant or, you know, what, what does that mean? Like, I walked out of there looking like a freaking cancer patient. I'm a brown guy, and I was pretty white, we were pretty pale. You know, and, and then I lost like, 100 pounds. And he wants

Unknown Speaker 35:55 to do it that way.

Allan Dubon 35:56 Yeah, you know, I couldn't pick up 50 pounds. And I know, this is from a guy who could pick up 300 pounds with relative ease, you know, like, yeah, it's heavy, but I could do it, you know. And now I can't even pick up 50 pounds, it was heavy, can you open my

Brandon Handley 36:13 eyes that must have felt like, you know, especially coming from, you know, Western society, being a male needing to be kind of this strong guy and facing your mortality, and then also facing like, you know, all these things that you couldn't do, and needing help, especially when you've labeled yourself and identified as the provider.

Allan Dubon 36:33 Yeah. Well, and, and also the protector, right? and stuff growing up against women and that I don't stand for, like, I can't tolerate that. And now being in a position that if somebody came up and slapped my wife, or my kids are some, I pretty much I got to sit there and you know, like, I still go fight them, but they kicked my ass, you know?

Brandon Handley 36:56 I'll come in for you.

Allan Dubon 36:58 You know, but but it's, it's that thing. Like I could not protect my family. And that, that both financially and physically right. So that, that messes my head a lot. Well,

Brandon Handley 37:09 I mean, that I mean, that's the whole like, I mean, I hate to, again, I'm not a genius, dude, I'm not big on the Bible, but like, kind of the meek shall inherit the earth or like, kind of going through that feeling like, feeling I'm not even saying like, you know, you're inheriting the earth, but like you going through this process of just being completely and totally. You've got to surrender right to everything. So I mean, yeah, tell me a little bit about, you know, applying that to your situation because surrenders big, big one, for sure.

Allan Dubon 37:36 You know, my wife and I discussed this, we didn't use that word. I wish I would have had it. And I'm gonna talk to her tonight when she gets home from work, you know? But, uh, you know, she's like, How can you be so calm about this, you know, cuz she'd have moments where she just she tried to be so strong, like, too strong. And then it would break. And so she cried. I'm like, I'm sorry. You're the one going through this. And we know, we are going through this. You know, and, and so one of the things that I told her as I said, I had to give up, not give up on fighting, give up on controlling any of this. We are not in control, not you know, we talked about believing in God and that he's in control. I said, we're still human, we still want to be in control. And we think this, we think that we're in control of stuff. We're not not at, all right.

Brandon Handley 38:29 Wrong, people are flying through the sky and all these other things. We're like, I got this, right. Thomas Moore.

Allan Dubon 38:36 Yeah. So like, you know, one of the biggest things was they had to stick a needle in my back, all the way into my spinal cord, pull out spinal, cerebral spinal fluid, awesome. And then put in methotrexate chemo and another candidate I remember the other 10 was called a screw

Brandon Handley 38:55 for the bone for how to

Allan Dubon 38:57 go Yeah, sir, to make sure that the if anything went past the, the brain barrier, then if they killed that too, right, because that's my kind of leukemia likes to hide there. And so they check it do a count and then put that stuff back and tell you what and they don't they numb the spot where they put it in, that's it, you don't get anything else. So you are wide awake and you know, fully lucid and you know, stuff like that. And you know, they punctured into my lung to get a biopsy when I got pneumonia and you know, once again, they just numb the spot. And the rest of you is very much awake, you know. And so these things are are pretty scary, because of the level of payments that are they can numb it up but there's still pain. Yeah. And, and then the lack of control. Right?

Brandon Handley 39:55 Right. Like you got no control over that I

Allan Dubon 39:57 got I can control my breathing. Not flinching, you know? And so that's all I focused on. Like, if I flinch, they could hit a nerve. They can collapse my lawn, you know? And a real comfortable stuff, right? You didn't know you'd get an anatomy lesson here. But what I controlled my breathing, right? What I could, right. So this is kind of coming back to that, that pity party stuff, I control what I can and then I serve others. So Mike Okay, how the hell do you serve others when they're stabbing something in your back? Those came through the back one of the top for the lungs and one, you know, times it wasn't just a one time thing you know, we talked about stuff I used to sell real estate. So we talked about real estate and the guy was buying a house and something oh, you know, ask your mortgage lender this and do that and don't buy this. And he's like, dude, how are you? Like, so focused on a mic? Because if I focus on what you're doing, I'm gonna freak out.

Brandon Handley 41:00 Right, right, right. Now that's true, right?

Allan Dubon 41:04 Totally self serving.

Brandon Handley 41:06 But again, you know, again, like, you know, you're doing it to, you know, you're doing it in a way is like, how can I still help this person along? And when you're doing that, again, like, it's just, it's almost like a burdens lifted off you. And it's really also a lot how we start the podcast off, right? Like, there's something that if you open yourself up to it, right? Like, if you're asking a question is how can I serve this person? What can I do to serve this person? source will provide you with something, right? And while you're filled with doing that thing, you're essentially being filled with source, right? Like you're, you know, so there's this kind of life giving thing flowing through you, so that you can provide to this other person and it takes away your pain, man.

Allan Dubon 41:50 Yeah, it's how I surrendered back to the original thought of this. Yeah. How I surrendered, it was forced on me, I could always decline you. They always tell you, you don't have to do any of this. We can just give you stuff to keep you comfortable. And I gotta live. I have to be right. You know, I got kids, I got to fight for my wife. I got to fight for you know. And so as like, if you guys think I got a shot, I'm fighting he, you know, we're doing this. Yeah. But they always say, Hey, you got a choice. You don't have to do this. All right. Well, my surrender was, I can pray all day. But if I just pray and don't take the action, you know, back to the Bible. Faith without works is dead, right? Yeah. So yeah, God is powerful. But he's given us science. He's given us all of these tools that aren't yet. Right. But they're the best things that we have.

Brandon Handley 42:45 But yeah. Yeah, for our level of understanding, right, yeah, we can

Allan Dubon 42:51 eat healthy, we can do good. But the blueberries not gonna take away the cancer. You know.

Unknown Speaker 42:57 I love antioxidants.

Allan Dubon 42:59 But, but I can eat the good stuff to help feed my body so that it's can tolerate what's going to happen to it a lot better. Right. And he got that's kind of the approach I took was faith, body nutrition, which I'm still not perfect at. And, and science, right, let them do what they're gonna do. I can control what goes in my mouth. And sometimes I don't choose well, because of ice cream.

Unknown Speaker 43:30 Most tracks.

Brandon Handley 43:32 So when Yeah, let's just talk a little bit about how like maybe your has this change kind of your, you know, going through the cancer, reconnecting. having these conversations with God. How do you feel like that's helping you move forward for a more fulfilling life right now?

Allan Dubon 43:48 You know, it really woke me up. Like what I said at the beginning, you don't have time. You just don't? Yeah, so it's a little more urgency. Not enough fear, like, Oh, crap, I'm gonna die. But in a dude, I gotta get my butt moving. I can't half asset, you know? Sure. And that the world is good. You know, we've we've seen a lot of craziness, no matter what, you know, here in the States, no matter what political side you're on, there's craziness on both sides. Sure. And, and, you know, manifests in different ways. And, and so there's a lot of that, and the news media wants to just sell us scary stuff, you know, tornadoes, politics, you know, and everything else in between. But I got a chance. This is where the blessings come in. I got a chance to not have to focus on that. I didn't have the energy to focus on that. While I was crazy, I didn't have to write right. And I get to see what beautiful people there are in the world, huh? I got to see people. You know, my my wife's cousin. Just Did a little GoFundMe for us, you know, one of the people that donated reminded me that story of the widow's mite, you know, the rich guys were tightening everything and just throwing buckets of money in. And she threw in essentially a quarter, you know, or whatever. And because that's all she had, well, there's a lady who she's like, on her third round of cancer, her husband and her son have died of cancer. Wow. And like, all of this crap, and she gave 20 bucks. And she was amongst the smallest donations monetarily. But I'll tell you what, to me, she stood out the most. Because here she is. I'm getting I'm really starting to understand at that point. I haven't even seen the biggest bills, but I'm starting to see him and I'm like, holy poop, you know, like, how are we going to do this? Right? And here she was, has lost the stuff that's most important in her life. She's fighting alone. And she's willing to give me 20 bucks in my fight. Right? You know, and she doesn't really know me. She knows sister in law, you know? And so it was stuff like that people, how can we help you? How can we do this, you know, our next door neighbors, when I had to get in my very first time being admitted. They called us and within, they said, you need to be here within an hour. Well, I live 45 minutes away from the hospital, and they're like, be here within an hour or you lose your room. Oh, you know, and they're like, and you're kind of cancer needs immediate attention. Okay. So we go to the neighbors, essentially, my wife pretty much tells them here, take my kids, were going to the hospital, they didn't know I had cancer. Because we hadn't told anybody. We didn't want to stir the pot yet until we knew what we're fighting. Right? All of a sudden, it was real and right now, right? She's crying, and she's telling them and we don't know, when we're gonna be back. You know, her and her husband were like, go, just go. Don't worry about it. We can bring you clothes, we can go buy your underwear, what you will bring your stuff just go. Right, you know, don't miss your spot. And so we grabbed a couple things, you know, and I was there for two weeks. We didn't know that. Yeah. And I think I'll be honest, I don't really remember if my wife went home, she might after a few days to get some clothes, in and out. And then back. So my kids were with the neighbors then with my, my, my wife's brother, and his wife, you know, for a little bit and stuff like that. And so it was just people who stepped in, who have busy lives, they're doing their stuff, you know, right. And all of a sudden, our emergency and they're stepping in, you know, and just lots of acts of kindness. You know, we're talking about Instagram, you know, posting stuff on Instagram, somebody gave us what, what I think is called a heart attack I've learned. And so they come in and just put a bunch of hearts on your door and like little nice messages. You know, we love you. Nice. Yeah. Well, I told you I got a ring, right? My ring wasn't working. So I have no idea who it was. Right? And so they came in, did a heart attack. And then all sudden, we have this big knock. And it's like, eight or nine o'clock? I don't remember. So like Who the heck, you know, right? So we go downstairs and just see this beautiful message. That's great. It's it's cheap construction paper and

Brandon Handley 48:37 workers. You know, I mean, like the money, it says he hasn't that doesn't have to take a whole lot to just do some acts of kindness or make somebody's day. Right you. And and again, I'm gonna go back to how you feel while you're doing it. Right. You know, is is kind of the key, right? You're gonna feel good, like, you know, you feel good. The recipient feels good. You're not in control of how the recipient is going to receive that. But as long as you are in the spirit of giving to give, and you're not in the spirit of giving to receive a reaction. Yes. Right. Because I mean, that's, that's a big thing, too. Right. So I think that that's kind of what you're illustrating here is right giving without, like, this expectation, giving, you know, so that, you know, you can be of service to others. And you know, kind of, you know, I think the other part was like, you know, you asked it in your conversation with God is like, Am I fulfilling my purpose? I think that'd be a word. What was the answer to that one? What did you feel on that?

Allan Dubon 49:38 I felt that I had done well, but not good enough, and I heard a little it wasn't a reprimand. But it was a you can do better. And, and really, it's about being more purposeful. Not just We got an extra 300 bucks around Christmas time, let's, let's see how we can get some gifts for that, which is great. And that's that's a good thing. But now, you know, somebody took care of our Christmas for us. And a couple families, you know, and, and they organized and all this kind of stuff and my kids now are like, Dad, can we do that for somebody next year once you got your job again? Because I'm not working and stuff? Right? It was awesome. Well, I

Brandon Handley 50:25 mean, I still got you still got your consultant services, and you're still able to do that. Right. So I mean, I know that you've had some tremendous success there in the past, I know that you've helped me, you know, put put business stuff together, you've helped me put my websites together. So I know that that's stuff that you're still capable of doing.

Allan Dubon 50:43 Yeah. And it's just, you know, I'm, I'm just getting to the point where I can consider that. Right. You know, cuz, energy wise,

Unknown Speaker 50:52 are you still pretty depleted?

Allan Dubon 50:54 Yeah. So it's, it's the commitment, right? Like, could I build a website? Yeah, but can I commit to

Brandon Handley 51:01 a timeline?

Unknown Speaker 51:03 Yeah.

Allan Dubon 51:05 Stuff like that. It's kind of teaching me that patience. And that. Would you call it? Surrender? surrendering? Thank you. Yeah, yeah. It's okay. I'm learning patience. That's what I mean, right now. Yeah. And I hate it. But I get the value of it. Yeah. Yeah, it was.

Brandon Handley 51:32 I mean, there's, there's a whole idea of like, you don't you don't have to slow down but Calm down, right. Like, take it slow. Not even again, not slow, deliberate, purposeful, intentional pace, right? Not not frantic, as if there weren't enough for everybody. Because there is right and and not, you know, I love your experience is is also to the idea of Providence, right? Like, you know, you've been the provider, but people will provide for you. Right? And, and it's not that it's something that you're not looking for a charity, but it's something that will happen naturally, if you kind of allow for it, right? Again, the Providence surrendering to the universe to God, whatever, just being like, Hey, I'm doing what I can, right. So you know, what does it mean? So, what does it feel like? Then? I guess if you know, if you're not fulfilling, what do you feel like you could be doing more? Do you feel like you need to be playing bigger? You know, what, what's that look like for you?

Allan Dubon 52:37 Excuse me a little bit of both, right? It's I was, I had exceeded I like to I'm a data nerd. So statistically, people who had my upbringing, don't reach where I've reached, sure. But to me, that's not good enough. And it's not to aggrandized myself, it's, I can serve others. And so it's, it's that tool of, or not the tool, it's getting the tool, which is money, and connections and stuff like that, so that I can then teach others how to grow out of their situation, wherever that might be. Right. Right. And so claim bigger to that with urgency. But not frantic, like you said, calm down. Right. But that's my calling, right? It's made very crystal clear to me. And, and, you know, taking care of people in that sense. And then planning and purposefully doing things like, hey, once I get my job back, we're gonna, or I can do my business or whatever, you know, however, that looks, right. We're going to create an account where we're going to start actually putting money away every check every sale, every whatever, so that it's not, oh, we happen to have an extra 200 bucks. Let's get a couple Nerf guns and pray vows for these folks. You know, it's it's right? Hey, we can really plan this out. Right? and serve one to 510 families, whatever it is, right? But make it purposeful versus Oh, we're gonna be good people and help. But it's because we happen to have 300 bucks extra for sure. No, I get it. I get it. You know?

Brandon Handley 54:17 Yeah, no, that makes sense. Man. I love it, though. I mean, so, again, I've loved I've loved your journey I've loved you know, I don't love that you had cancer. But I do love that, you know, you kind of, I love the way that you went through it. And how you you kept your shit together, for the most part, how you faced it with this attitude of service. And I'm just super glad that we had the opportunity to connect and that you made it through man, you've been a big part of like I told you at the beginning a big part of spiritual dope, big part of my own journey. And, you know, I'm not a data analytics guy. So you know, my forecast though, is like more Allen Right, my forecast is more out in the life and, you know, so if, you know, if you were coming out of it and you had more energy right now who would be like somebody who's your ideal client,

Allan Dubon 55:17 somebody who's got an idea of where they want to be, and a purpose. And it doesn't mean you have to know exactly what the business is, or anything like that you can, or grow the business or whatever, but really, it's about purpose. And the purpose to me needs to be more than just, I got to make money. It's got to be what am I going to do once I make money in my life? And how am I going to serve others? Because that's what drives me is that money is a tool

that spans the gamut of Hey, they're they're only making 50,000 a year or maybe they're making 5 million a year you know, it spans all of that because it's, it's Hey, it's more of a purpose driven than I want to make this much per sale. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 56:18 I love that right. When you when you inject purpose and that kind of everything that you do you really do accelerate it right. So So what you're offering do then is to help people kind of get clarity and accelerate their their purpose and vision so that they can have a more fulfilling life is that what I'm here?

Allan Dubon 56:35 Yeah, yeah. Awesome, brother.

Brandon Handley 56:38 Hey, thank you so much. Like I said, I know you're you're still kind of coming out of it. But I appreciate you jumping on and sharing a bit of your story sharing you know your conversations with God even though you're not you know, what's the guy's name Neale Donald Walsch or whatever. So Alan Duvall take on conversations with God today. You know, fighting cancer. And and you know, getting a second shot, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that for you, man. So thanks again. We're have some people check out more on.

Allan Dubon 57:08 I'm pretty much Alan dubon everywhere. ondemand.com on Instagram, Facebook, and Alan dubon, even clubhouse. So

Brandon Handley 57:17 awesome. Awesome. All right, but thanks for being on today. Thanks, guys.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Join in the conversation as we host Elyse Archer of She Sells this week on Spiritual Dope.

Connect with Elyse over at: https://elysearcher.com/

Also, Elyse, mentioned the book The Diamond Cutter, check it out below:

Brandon Handley 0:00 321 Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here. The voice of a generation as we know, Mays was self self indulge every once in a while and I'm on with a quite somebody quite special Elise Archer. And I'm just gonna, I'm gonna let her do the bio for herself in a second here. But before I do that, like Elise is the reason I do a podcast. Right? Before I met Elise, I'd never listened to a podcast, or I was like, fuck podcasts. Like, that's not for me. And when I when I met Elise, Alicia, we're doing your podcast with Greg and, Mark. Good. Morning. Yeah. And, you know, and then you know, we're connecting at some of the networking events. And then I eventually hired you as my coach. And then when we got through the coach, it was for sales coaching, we got midway through the coaching. And I was like, This is more like, I'm getting life coach than sales coach. And and it's okay, because it's transferable, but like, as like, Well, you know, what, at least what we've been working on, like, it's been the sales, but I really want to do this, like podcasts, and I was fully expecting you to be like, eyes on the prize brand and focus on what you said you were gonna focus on and you got it. And instead of doing that, instead of doing that, you're like, well, how can I help you? Right, and you connect them with some other people. And that moment that that was like a life changing moment for me. So thank you for that. And I'm gonna let you do your own little brief intro. Like Elise, what do you all about? And share a little bit of that? And then we'll get it going.

Elyse Archer 1:36 Oh, my gosh, I love that. Yeah, it's it's so cool, just to see what you've created in a short amount of time and to see the evolution of it as well. So yeah, thank you so much. I was just thinking before cutting on his podcast, this is so much fun for me, because I do most of the podcast interviews I do or straight business sales, personal branding. And so this is pushing my limits, because this is actually the stuff I care about, like this is, this is the real, I feel like everything I do in the sales and business world is kind of the Trojan horse to try to like, talk to people about spirituality and help them just develop and grow personally. So this is so much fun. Okay, so with that about me, I'm a new mom. So I've got a little boy, he's six months old. And that's so much fun. Yeah, yeah, it's the best. I love it. I didn't know how I was gonna feel elevated. I

Unknown Speaker 2:24 know.

Elyse Archer 2:26 My gosh, No, I know. And he's kind of he's past that, like the blob stage now. So he's doing things which was, but especially for my husband, Jason, I think it's more fun for him now that he can interact. And, yeah, I'm a business owner. So I do a couple different things. I'm a founding team member of a company called brandbuilders group or a personal brand, strategy firm. And then I also recently launched another brand that I'm running called T cells. And it's a it's basically sales, training and mentoring for women who want to break through six figures and learn to sell in a way that feels really authentic to them. And we can, you know, take this conversation wherever you want it to go. But that's a lot of my background is coming from corporate sales and seeing, you know, sales and business strategies celebrated that, frankly, made me feel like crud when I implemented them, because they either kind of blurred the lines of integrity, or were all about Push, push, push, hustle, and I did it, I did what I was taught, and I financially, I did pretty well. But it was really, really detrimental to not just my mental health, my physical health too. And so a lot of my own journey has been about I would say, reconnecting with myself, like how I'm actually wired, how I was innately designed and learning to trust myself, trust my instincts, trust my body, trust my intuition. And, and I'm really lit up now about helping everyone do that. But specifically, I my brand really is catering to women, because I think so much of what we're taught, just growing up is like, we, you know, our bodies look wrong, or they're not the way they should be, or they're for other people's pleasure. And it's just, it's really disempowering. And so, I'm so passionate about helping myself reconnect with my power and then helping other women reconnect with their power as well. So that's, that's a little sliver of what I'm all about.

Brandon Handley 4:15 Just a tidbit.

Unknown Speaker 4:16 Yeah. Just a little bit.

Brandon Handley 4:18 I love it. I love it, you know. And again, you know, when we connected, it was just, I think it was a, it was just an interesting journey. You You and I are connection, right? And just kind of how that how that all? We'll call it manifested. And let's start off with the first question that so we have all day to talk. So usually like to start us off with, you talked about connecting with your power always align it with like source, right? So the idea is that source speaks through us to speak to somebody else, right, you kind of get this divine inspiration to share something with somebody else. So the deal is there's somebody listening to this podcast today that needs you to kind of ignite them to connect them to their power through a message. And what does that message to that person today? At least?

Elyse Archer 5:08 I love that question. I mean, the biggest thing that shows up for me is to trust yourself. That's like I said, that's so much of what I feel inspired to share with this brand. And like I mentioned before, a lot of my journey, especially in my teens, and 20s, were, it was it was not trusting myself, and whether that was not not being proud of my body. And I struggled with an eating disorder for 17 years, or feeling like something was just off with, like a client situation or something I was being told to do at work. All the way to, you know, when we got pregnant for the first time, a couple years ago, I went into sheer panic, that I was like, I just, I felt like I was going to lose the pregnancy. And I went into sheer panic about it. Sure enough, we miscarried. And I learned in that moment, I didn't trust my body. And it's been so interesting, this journey of learning to I think a lot of times we have to like kind of be brought to our knees to be able to be open to whatever that that message is that we're meant to receive, and then carry forth into the world for other people. And that was it for me. But then even talking with my mom about it, a lot of her own experience, too, was she didn't trust her body. And I think a lot of this stuff goes back generationally. So you know that, whatever that thing is that you feel like you want to do, but you can't do or you have this intuition to do something or you're like that logically doesn't make sense. If I could encourage someone to listen to it, and trust that it doesn't have to make sense for anyone other than you and to kind of stop looking outside of yourself. Even I promise, I'll be quiet in a second. So you can respond or ask your next question. But I think about the coach I'm working with right now like this was I just did a pretty big financial investment to work with a new coach. And I knew that it was going to trigger all of my scarcity mindset that I was part of me was still clinging on to I knew it. And sure enough, a couple of weeks in it did. And I knew in my core, my intuition this whole time that it was the right move. But logically, it would not be anything that my dad would have told me to do, it would have been anything that a lot of even business mentors, who I look up to would tell me to do and I was on a call with her a couple weeks ago, and I said, I found myself going into panic about making the wrong decision. She was like, when do you find yourself going into panic about that. And I said, usually I'm reading, it's when I'm reading like a business book, or I'm listening to financial management training from somebody else. And she was like, stop it, cut it off for the next three weeks, no consumption of any of that stuff. And I cut it off, and I feel so at peace. So it's not that we want to not learn and educate ourselves and challenge our thinking. But I think at the end of the day, you know, your best path for you. And you have to trust that everything that you're doing and when you act on those instincts, it's always unfolding for the greater good and for your greater good. So sometimes just putting those blinders on and trusting that you know, what you need to do, is the most powerful thing you can do. So that would be my message.

Brandon Handley 8:14 After keeping it short.

Unknown Speaker 8:15 I'm gonna be all day

Brandon Handley 8:20 I kid I kid I love it. I love it all like and one of the parts where you brought it to know you had to kind of come to your knees right to just kind of accept your your intuition piece for a lot of people would you consider that? You? d a fearful, dark night of the soul for you? Would you consider that a moment of a or maybe like even a dark night of the soul? Whatever, right? And then and then, you know, there's the idea I love I love what you're saying there with with your coach, because I bet you it's almost like it's almost like a deprivation for you knowing how much you consume to improve or be better or find another technique or whatever, right? Like Hmm, I have to cut all that off. Right like so you probably feel a little bit like a junkie having to withdraw from that at least look and I know this from my own experience, right? I'm like, I'm like What do you mean? Don't Don't do it all like right now.

Elyse Archer 9:16 So it was in that did one thing I'll just add to that is like, she really kind of pushed me with that cuz she was I was like, but I love learning and learning is good. And I love reading. She was like, that's your comfort zone. She said, study yourself for three weeks. Just study yourself. Whoa, this is so uncomfortable. But that's right. That's what we need.

Brandon Handley 9:33 Well, that's tough, too. Right. So jumping in there and studying yourself. And what I'll throw in there though, too, is like, so it's very, I'm still going through this book again. Right? Like, are you ready to succeed? I can't remember if I saw I might have sent you one too. I can't recall if I did. I think I sent you have a kid's book that isn't yours. Yeah, I

Elyse Archer 9:50 don't I'm not familiar with this book. So

Brandon Handley 9:52 this is Sreekumar Rao. This is actually by way of Elise Archer at some point. It was back in the day when we were doing the coaching There was a guy that I looked up Sreekumar Rao on like, you know, you are hardwired for happiness, right? And turned out like, you almost cried, watching his little story or whatever. And I was like, Alright, well, I gotta get his book, got his book, yada yada went through it. But one of the pieces in here it's just really talks about there's two pieces in here that you're saying that resonate with me. And one is like, talking about putting all that effort in, right? Like I gotta do I gotta do I got consumed content consume content, you were finding like each time you like power, something that didn't correlate with how you were feeling or doing it was like, it was like, striking the wrong chord. Right? Quite literally. It's like, you're like that is that is out of that is that's out of tune with who I am. Oh, my God, I need to make an adjustment because this person, you wrote this book, he's an authority. Right? He

Unknown Speaker 10:48 knows. Oh, my gosh, I

Brandon Handley 10:50 shouldn't Holy shit. Did I do the wrong thing? Right. So that that's one piece, right? is to not let the wrong thought in your head. Right? It's better. It's like better like like literally cut yourself like with a razor. He says in this book, this came from like a Swami. Right? It's better to cut yourself like a razor than to let the wrong thought into your head. Hmm. Right. which I know sounds to me. Like, you know, that's that's kind of what was happening to you. Like, you know, you're you're on your path. But you're like, you like this guy's awesome. I love 98% of what he does. But this piece right here is just like a BB in my mind, right? breaking all my shit. And thank you so much. Right? And then and then the other piece is like, we're trying to do it so fast. Right? We're trying to we're trying to do is we want it so bad. We're trying to do it so fast. There's another story in this book where he talks about the idea of, you know, if you try to do it so fast, and with so much energy, it's actually gonna take twice as long. So it sounds like your coach sounds really similar to what your coach is saying is they stop taking all this like outside influence and jam in all this into your cranium. Study yourself, trust yourself. And that's what you're saying to is like, kind of trust yourself and believe in yourself and kind of tune out all the other shit.

Elyse Archer 12:01 Yeah, well, that's so interesting what you said about if you try to like, push and force it into it so fast, it'll take twice as long. It's interesting. I hadn't thought about it like that. But because it's counterintuitive. It makes a heck of a lot of sense. Because you're kind of going up river versus letting yourself flow and stuff, right?

Brandon Handley 12:18 Yeah. here's, here's how, like, I've visualized it more recently. And this is like, this year, right? Imagine, like, you feel like you're literally putting all the thought energy or whatever things, right? If we're putting all this energy into this place, right? Then nothing can get in. So if we create space for something to come in, right, if we back up for a second, and let it come to us, then it comes to us, right? Because otherwise we're blocking it. We're like, I've got to put everything into this spiritual energy, right? Like, I've got to put all of my, you know, essence energy into this thing. And I want it so bad. If it doesn't, we've got all these things caught up with it. And instead of like, I do really want it I want it really bad, but like, I want it and kind of like, the way I like flowers and, you know, gardens and stuff where if I go and I plan it, you know, there's that whole other thing to where, like, you know, if you plant something you don't keep pulling it up, right? And check into the roots and be like, you plan it. Come back up. Yes, it does what it's supposed to do. Yeah, it'll do anyways. And those are some thoughts that are like, you know, coming on mine is I'm hearing your story, right? I'm hearing like your coaching unfold. So thanks for letting me ramble on

Elyse Archer 13:26 I love this. This is no I feel like I'm getting a good like a spiritual lesson from you. And this this is awesome

Brandon Handley 13:31 was so that was so here's the other thing, right? Like Elise guys is I went through like my quote unquote, like a call, quote, unquote, because nobody can like point a finger and say, Hey, that was an awakening experience. But remember, if you don't remember that time, I called you up. I

Unknown Speaker 13:43 was like, Oh, yes,

Brandon Handley 13:44 I went through some shit. I don't know what it is. And it's like an awakening experience. So Lisa's been again, guys that's, you know, just want to share our relationship with the people that are listening, right, and how this kind of all came together. You came to me as like a sales coach. But what ends up happening was all this inner work that I hadn't done before for personal growth, and it manifested into culminated into like kind of an awakening experience. Right. And from there, we still maintained and again, that was another thing where you were like, Well tell me more about that, like, because you're just as excited as I was for that, too. So I think that that's says a lot about kind of who you are and what you accept in your life. So I do want to hear like, you know, how you talked about helping people find themselves spiritually through your own process. And I'd like to hear how you're doing that. Because what happened with me might not have been intentional. And and, you know, how do you feel like you're doing it intentionally right now?

Unknown Speaker 14:43 Oh, wow.

Elyse Archer 14:45 Yeah, gosh, I don't so I don't have like an intentional method to it. I think it's more me think about that cuz I want to actually, I want to, I want to think about what the right or just what the true answer is for me there. I think I think for me, a lot of my own journey has been around overcoming a lot of feelings of unworthiness and worthlessness. And I think a lot of that is conditioned, that's part of why a lot of the, like the clients I work with are in a business environment in a business setting. And so a lot of times they'll come for, you know, I want to make more money, or I want to grow my personal brand and presence and just through that process, usually what comes up is, are there tactical, pragmatic things that they can do to do that? Absolutely. But also, and I think the more important thing is we dig into just limiting beliefs that are showing up for them around, you know, I want to make this amount of money, but even the word want means you don't have it, right. So it especially the women, I work with those, those cut, you hear more than their story. And they talk about feeling unworthy or scared to show up or scared to speak up. And it doesn't matter how good your website is, or how good your sales process is, if you have that limiting view of yourself, you're only going to be able to operate within a box that's like this big right? And get results that are about that big. So I really like I said, I don't have a set processes, something I'm kind of like working on developing on right now. Because I do want to be able to take people through a more like a more intentional process. For me, it's typically kind of intuitive with my clients. But that's usually what I'm listening for when I hear my clients talk is, what are they actually saying about themselves. I was on a call with a potential client the other day. And the first thing she said when she got on our call was she said, Oh, you know, I'm just sitting here procrastinating, like I always do. And she's a woman who wants to break through six figures this year in her business, and she's a go getter. And she you can tell like she's you know, she's an aggressive goal getter. But the first thing I said was, whatever you describe you prescribed, right. So if you're sitting there saying, I'm procrastinating, like I always do, you're going to continue to procrastinate on accomplishing your goals on making your sales calls on whatever it is. So I just I think because so much of my own journey involves poor self talk poor or poor self image, I can hear it, and I can see it and other people. And then that's what I try to pull out. Because usually we're just we're not even aware of it. It's so ingrained in how we think and how we talk. And most of the people around us usually use disempowering language and thoughts. And so it's kind of just part of our society. But once you realize, once you're aware of it, you can't unknow it. Right. And so I care so much now for myself about how I feel and how I speak about myself. And I try to get my clients to that same level of self awareness. Because the tactical stuff is like 5% of the actual process, the 95% of it is how you think and what you believe you deserve. So I don't know if that answered the question. Like I said, there's not a real thought out process. It's super intuitive for me, but that's, um, that's that's kind of how I do it

Brandon Handley 18:01 a little bit. I mean, it sounds like there is right, so the process is to kind of just identify where they are, right? You know, are they saying something that, you know, you've been able to get look as, I don't think it's any different than being a doctor, right? Kind of, when, when you first start off, you're like, maybe I shouldn't amputate that leg, I don't know. But I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead and cut that one off, you're doing the same thing with like somebody limiting beliefs, right? Or identifying it. And over time, over time, like you become skilled enough to be like, Oh, that's this. That's this. That's this. That's this just because of your exposure, experience. And then your own way of working with people in that space, seeing what works. A lot of these things that you're using a lot of the tools that you're using, I'm guessing, aren't brand new, right? These are tools that have been around for quite some time that have had success for years and years and years. It's just how do you how do you share those tools with these people? So what would be like one thing that you help? Like, when you identify like a limiting belief within somebody else? Right? How do you how do you identify that for somebody to get them past that? Yeah, well, I

Elyse Archer 19:07 think the first thing is just reflecting it back to them. So that's part of where there is value in having a coach a mentor, just somebody who can hear how you talk. And and actually help help you become aware and almost be a mirror for Do you realize you just said that? Because like I said, oftentimes, our language is so it is it is so subconscious, we don't even realize we're saying it. So it's like, hey, do you realize you just said that? And then oftentimes people don't even realize it's a problem. They're like, well, so you know, so what? So what did I said that and I think so for some people, they're already really into law of attraction and, and positive self talk, but for a lot of people I work with, they're not familiar with, with what that means, and how it how it impacts them. So we talked about, you know, whatever you're saying you're giving a command to your subconscious to create this thing in your life. And so we start to look at what's a new and better and different way you could say that The other thing that has been really profoundly transformational for me in my life and that I recommend for a lot of my clients is Joe dispenza his meditations like I am, I'm guessing you follow Him, and I'm such a fan of his work. But every single morning, I'm doing those meditations. And I asked my clients to do the same, and it helps you start to feel the feelings of abundance, genius. Courage, right? All those things that, that we want to embody. And so I get all my clients doing that, as long as they're open to it, and that is pretty darn transformational as well.

Brandon Handley 20:40 Now, 100%, right, yeah, Joe dispenza is great. He's one, there's one that I listened not not even. Not even a meditation, but he's got like a 10 minute piece that like I listened to all the time. It's just, it just reminds me like not to look at like, not to look at my social media first thing in the day not to, you know, to retune yourself, right, like to retune your your whole, you know, your whole experience? Do you live life on your terms? Not according to what kind of everybody else is already doing? And that's why I enjoy him and that. So meditation, getting them to connect with the meditations? Or where did you find that to be kind of like the game changer? a game changer for you? Hmm.

Elyse Archer 21:24 You know, it's so I've been meditating off and on for probably five years, probably, well, I really longer than that, but like, actually really going for it for about five years. But I would say it's, I kind of, I would do it for a while, and then I'd get off of it. Because it was like, you know, I'm still I still was in the mindset of i, this time would be so much better spent if I was sending emails or creating the social media posts. So I was still in that mindset. And really, I would say, it's, it's honestly been more in the past few months that it's kicked in, for me how critically important it is. Where, even though I think I had done a fair amount of work on releasing anxiety, and like I mentioned, like not trusting myself and stuff. So I'd gotten to a pretty good place about 12 months ago, but I still would have almost this low grade anxiety running all the time in the background, especially on Sunday nights, looking at the week ahead of like, Oh, you know, I've just I've still got all this stuff that's been done that I thought I was gonna try to get done this weekend, did I just piled too much on my plate, and then I would kind of beat myself up about just not being, you know, good enough. And I Gosh, if I was better, I could have gotten this done. So it was this habit in this perpetual like cycle that my body was almost addicted to the feeling and the anxiety. And some time, I think sometimes we just have a moment. And for me, I just had a moment, I was like, doing it this way, has gotten me this result. I've been feeling this low grade anxiety for years for most of my life. What if I didn't have to feel that way? What if that wasn't the reality for everybody? What if I was what if it was just a decision that I was going to feel differently. And that's when I started really doubling down into a lot of Joe's work, and into just studying, you know, the different energy centers of the body and how to get them in coherence. And I will say, I mean, it's a very short time as of the recording of this interview, but for about a week now, I've had really consistent checks up brain heart coherence, where you just you feel like in the flow all the time, no matter what. I had that for about a week, and it's been so transformational. Like, I'm not afraid of anything that's coming, I'm not anxious, I'm at peace, I'm present. With the people I'm talking to. I'm excited. I'm not triggered by stuff the way I was. And it's just it's a totally different, I was able to get there like a little bit before and I could get there and kind of keep it for a while during my meditations. But then something would happen in life, and it would trigger me or throw me off and I'd have to like work to get back. And it's been really darn consistent. For like I said, about seven days. And I think it's it was just a decision of, I can have this all the time if I want. And so now i'm i'm showing up on that meditation, that was some ferocity my friend cuz he's like, Oh, this is good, how much? How much better could it get?

Brandon Handley 24:19 You show it to meditation be like, I'm gonna take this bitch down. Yes. So so that's great. So there's, there's a word that I use in tandem kind of with, with with, with what you're talking about there. And that's the word numinous. Right? Like where you've got this connection to source and it's just effervescent. And it sounds like that's been your week, right? Nothing can derail that, right? There's nothing stronger than it and there's no worry, you've given yourself some trust, you've given yourself some grace. And there's a it's just such a great feeling, right? Like how did happen and where's and it's always been available. Right, that's the thing like to you're like, well, all I had to do was make a decision to make this a conscious choice.

Elyse Archer 25:06 That was it. Yeah, that and it's and it's not like nothing has happened, like, I got a mega tax bill I wasn't expecting because of a miscommunication with my accountant. And in the past that would have that would have thrown me, you know, and this I was like, okay, like, I, you know, I am being honest, it threw me for a couple minutes. And then I just like I'm snapping back into it, because nothing is worth sacrificing this level of vibration and awareness and feeling nothing. So we're just going to do it and move on. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 25:37 yeah, no, absolutely. 100%. Right. So I thought I definitely talked about this in my process, too, right? To where you make the decision, right, literally, like, so I created that, you know, this thing called the divine framework, right, the first piece of the first piece of this puzzle that you just talked about, is to make the decision. Yes. Right. Like, this is it? This is I'm going for it. Right. But the one thing that, you know, you talked about, like kind of this belief system, you talked about the boxes right and and discover on uncovering kind of like the those limitations, right? Those self imposed limitations. It's kind of like this whole mindset thing. This is just how spirituality has kind of shown itself for me, right? Like I did the I did the coaching with you awesome stuff. Great stuff went through like law of attraction, right? And I was like, well, this is this is all kind of stuff that I'm putting out there. What if I shake it back and understand that this is a benevolent universe? And that it probably wants things more for me than I actually want for me. What can you show me? Right? And how can I take who I am eternally spirit, like spiritual DNA is perfect, right? I mean, we all have, we all share the same spiritual DNA. But I went from having a human mindset with all these worldly things that we know how to use, right. And, to your point, I've made it this far with this human mindset with this human capability. As like, what happens if I choose divinity? What happens in right? What happens if I'm connected to source at all time? And if I accept that source is everything, right? Who, you know, what am I capable of then? Right? And so that's just fucking blew the lid off it. I'm like, you know, and that's, that's that again, just another choice to make right then. And so you can take a look at spirituality and the, you know, you can call it maybe it's Christ consciousness, I don't know, right to decide, like, Hey, listen, this is this is Buddhist consciousness, I make this decision to do what you did, to say. I'm just gonna stay connected to this ship, because I feel real good. I don't have to drink to get here. I don't have to get high to get here. All I have to do is show up and decide to be here. It can't be that easy lease.

Elyse Archer 27:56 It's it. It is literally it is a decision. I mean, that's it. That's been a huge lesson for me in the past 12 months that I think we could be scared to make that whatever the decision is. Whether it's a decision to show up differently, a decision to to move right a decision to, for me invest in this, this high level coach. One other thing that happened for me a couple months ago is I made it not I guess it was more a month ago, I made a decision to spend more money than I knew where it was going to come from to work with this particular woman. So I felt very intuitively guided to do it. And I remember going through the fear and I like I said yes to her verbally. And then I like kind of shrugged back for a week and I vacillated It was like, Oh, this is a bad idea. It's not it's not responsible. It's not smart. And I reached the point. And I think you saw my video I did on Instagram about this. But I was just thinking about why am I not moving forward on this. And it was the fear of the unknown. It was the fear of making a bad decision in the unknown. And, but what it reminded me of was, when I was in my late 20s, I was in a just a, I was in a marriage that was really toxic. And I was so scared to leave because I was afraid of the judgment of being young and being divorced. And my family put a lot of money into the wedding and we were only I mean I knew before I got married to him I shouldn't have but at this point where I reached kind of the turning point we were like 1214 months in I was so scared to do it because of the fear of judgment and what was going to be on the other side would I ever find someone who was actually a good fit for me all that stuff. And I just reached a point where I said it can't be worse than this you know so let's let's pull the trigger and do it and so I I asked for the divorce and six months to the day that I did. I met Jason who's my husband I knew within minutes that he was going to be my husband. very inconvenient by the way in North Carolina. You've got to be separated for a year so we were still tech Are you gonna you remembered for a year for you to get remarried.

Brandon Handley 29:58 For the for the guys out there. They listen, they're gonna probably, they're gonna want to know, what can somebody do in a couple minutes to make some money?

Unknown Speaker 30:07 Right? I

Elyse Archer 30:08 know, I know. Yeah, they are. He just showed up and I was like that, you know, you hear about you know it when you know it, you know it I've never had that experience before. But I, I knew him. I knew that I was meant to be with him. So that's a whole nother story, because then I had to proceed to chase him and date him and all of that stuff. It was a frustrating courtship, I will say, but here we are. So

Unknown Speaker 30:29 if I had to do one, that one, I won that one. Yeah.

Elyse Archer 30:33 But if I had not left that situation that I was so scared to leave, I would not have met him. And we would not have our son jack now. And that just puts things into perspective for me. And I think everyone can relate to something in their life where they've been so scared to make a move, because they didn't know what was on the other side. But think about what happened in your life is a result of what you have now that you wouldn't have had if you hadn't stepped out in faith. And for me, that was like, this is it. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen on the other side of this, but I know, I can trust my intuition that's leading me to do this. And I know something really good is gonna unfold, even if it's not what I'm expecting. So it's kind of that surrender, like, Alright, I'm along for the ride.

Brandon Handley 31:16 That's it. I mean, that's it. 100% right. You know, it's, it's following your intuition. And kind of, you know, trusting it. And for you, you know, that's seems to be working fairly well. Seems like, hey, look, what I love, too, is like, you know, listen, no matter how much of this work you've been doing on yourself, I've been doing myself, anybody out there has been doing it themselves. years, right. You're still catching yourself, like beating yourself up? Right? You're still catching yourself. Like, you know, there are moments where everything's not fucking perfect. And that's okay. Like, and I think that, I think that that that can be a challenge too. Because to accept that right to to be able to say, this, this moment, right here is not ideal for me. But that's still going to show up no matter how much work you do. And I think that that's important for people to hear and understand. Because they put themselves in into, oh, I shouldn't be feeling this way I shouldn't, then they beat themselves up for feeling that way at all. Like you're saying, like, I shouldn't be doing this way. And, and and I should be you should I've done it differently. And all these other things. And I've had another guy that had on and I know well, you called it he has the acronym, acronym Tina, right? There is no alternative. However you did it, right. There's no alternative to what's already been done. Right? The only alternative mate would be like your perspective on that, like, as you move forward, you'd be like, you know what, you can look back and be like, you know, what, in my mind, at that time, this is what I thought was going on. But now if I look back, it's a totally different scenario. your perspective on what happened may be different. But the actual event, there's no changing it. Right? That's your your way past it. Right. Yeah. But you know, so how would I mean, a dress that though right, especially for you know, you again, being a coach, having gone through, like all this work, and still finding, you know, yourself kind of having those challenging moments? Do you accept those for yourself? Or do you beat yourself up for having those and then, you know, how do you get through it? What do you do from there?

Elyse Archer 33:28 Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. I, so I do accept myself for having those. And I used to beat myself up a lot over it. And I think a lot of that is just we see people, whether it's our parents, or like, for me, I saw I like, I love my mom dearly, but I saw her do that my whole childhood growing up. So I that's how I operated for a long time. So now with those moments, I am so conscious of how I talk to myself, because I realized if I beat myself up, I'm only perpetuating the negative emotion negative feeling, I'm just going to attract more of that back into my life. So yeah, I mean, even yesterday, I had an introduction to like, a big time, big time, big time podcast to go on. And I had been like, really psyched up.

Unknown Speaker 34:11 You know, we've been talking for a while.

Unknown Speaker 34:14 See, it's always working.

Elyse Archer 34:18 So I had this. So this was like, you know, like, top 100. Like, it was a big it was a just in terms of audience a big show. And so I got myself kind of psyched up for it. And I get on the call with the woman I'd been introduced to who is kind of like the gatekeeper and she was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. If there's a misunderstanding. You know, he's booked up for a whole year like I just really wanted to get to know you. You seem like a cool chicken. It was like, in that moment, I felt I felt disappointment. And then I gave myself like two seconds to feel it. I was like, okay, nothing is worth feeling that nothing is worth perpetuating that. So let me instead flip this and focus on how can I show up for her in this moment because I genuinely believe everything is always working out. For me, and if this is not the thing that's meant to be right now it means there's something even better down the road. So cool. So let's have fun with this. And let's like, show up and have fun. And then who knows what will happen in the future. But I think it's that an attachment to like things being so perfect that for myself, for a lot of people, right, I think a lot of women I work with everyone, we can get kind of caught up in perfectionism, and things have to turn out the way we thought they would. But when you can be kind of unattached and just more attached to like, feeling good and having fun and showing up in the moment. It's, it's a heck of a lot more enjoyable. And you end up

Brandon Handley 35:35 Yeah, listen, you could find yourself on spiritual dope, too, right?

Unknown Speaker 35:40 I love it.

Brandon Handley 35:41 But the deal is to have right like, I mean, that is, you know, the dude, you're talking about that seven days of being connected. That is, that's the spiritual high, right? That's, that's the, that's what the spiritual dope is. That's the hits. You know, when you got that meditation, and you've got that meditation buzz of man, I was just so connected, I was so aligned, I was so detached from, I don't want to say worldly things. But I was so detached from all all the activity and things that I felt like we were talking earlier, like, oh, maybe I gotta go make another pose. Maybe I got to go do this, maybe I got I got, I've got 10 minutes, I can squeeze in like five posts, maybe I can I am in and check for emails, right. And instead of being like, like, your coach is saying, Go study your fucking self for a minute. Right? Like, you're pretty special. Right? recognize that? You know, I think more recently, you know, some of the meditations that I'll do would be like, how far can you visualize yourself out? Right? And I'd be like, oh, infinite, right? The edges of the universe? Yes. But then more recently, I was like, well, inside is just as infinite to like, how deep Can I go into myself, and it's infinite. So it's infinite internally as much. So like, that was there's been like a new rocking revelation, right? Like, where you just kind of you go internally, and you just hang out with yourself. And you see that, like, you know, you are 100% connected to source at all times. And it's like, you're saying, it's a choice to say, I'm connected in this moment, to the person to the lady that was on the call, or title for my own shit. And I could I could show up and be there for her, or be tied up my own shit. And again, you're like, I'm gonna take this moment, be there for her. And be open for the intuition, the inspiration, what's coming out of this that is meant to be like your best.

Elyse Archer 37:35 Yes. I don't want to add something to what you said about just studying the depth of ourselves. So one of my girlfriends, her sister, passive cancer a couple years ago, and they were super close, super, super close. And I wouldn't talk about this on most any podcasts. I'll talk about it here because I feel like you'll get it. So she her sister passed. And then a mutual friend of theirs, called my friend out of the blue a couple months later, and she was she was like, I don't know, I just feel like I have to call you. And we needed to reconnect. And this, this woman also channels and connects with people on the other side. And suddenly, while they were talking, my friend's sister Lauren started coming through her and say, like, really literally reconnecting with my friend and what Lauren was saying, was, she said, You have no idea how big we are. She said now that I'm on the other side now that I can see it. She said, imagine like zoom out look at your house. Imagine you're looking at it from above. You see the house and then zoom out to the block and the street and then your city and then the world and then the universe. She said you're so much bigger. She said we are so much bigger than we know. She said I can't wait for you to see this and know this. But she was just like, it's you should have this this one on your podcast, I can introduce you because it's powerful. It's so powerful. But that perspective from the other side of are so much bigger than we can even fathom. Have

Brandon Handley 38:59 you connected yourself to that yet? Um, have you had that experience for yourself?

Unknown Speaker 39:04 No. Have you I want to Oh, can can you tell me about

Brandon Handley 39:07 it? Because I mean, it's you can't right that's the whole Yeah, you can't that's the whole like, mystery school mysticism. translate that thing now? I did do I did do one good podcast on it where I'm not sure if you've done breathwork yet.

Unknown Speaker 39:23 A little bit not

Brandon Handley 39:24 not a ton, but a little bit. It's like it's it's it's like, cracked out. Meditation. When done when done well, like when you when you nail you'll know when you nail it because you'll come out of it. Like, what the fuck just happened? And can I get more of that all the time? Anytime? And the answer is yes. Right. Which is also powerful because that's just like, like I said, meditation force multiplied and add connections and scenes, that you know, in those moments, that that's the That's just like a knowing, right? Like, it can't be anything other than that and and more back to what you were saying before is it doesn't you don't need an external validation for that type of thing. You know this as truth. Right and and so, yes, right and that's the that's the question all right and and you know, I had similar experience to where this actually so to Elise has meant guys just again so lease is a lease is actually responsible in part for spiritual dope as well I don't know if I told you that or not it was the interview without What was her name last one you got me in contact with the spiritual

Unknown Speaker 40:41 Oh, Regina Yeah,

Brandon Handley 40:43 so I interviewed Regina for the prosperity practice which in its own right was fucking awesome. I did love it and actually enjoyed it. But I also realized that I was I was kind of, you know, trying to sell the people what they wanted, but then give them what they need. And finally, I was just like, you know what bucket like your friend, right? Like, a much bigger, you know, spirituality, right? our spirits are much bigger than our bodies and it's self evident. There's like, you know, recordings of it with just even just with your resonance, right? You talked about also like the mind, mind heart coherence, experience that often, right? And that's through meditation, but again, like through a number of things, once you recognize how to connect that and resonate that piece, and then you're like, oh, like, like, all the time like it just like, it's so great. Anyway, so yeah, so I interviewed her. And I was like, Why? Why am I holding back? kind of the best part of me? The best part of like, what I believe, right? Because here was this, you know, here was this, you know, ex lawyer fucking doing it. Right? And I was like, why am I waiting? Right? For who? Who, who? And then this came all the way back from my first podcast. So anyway, so first podcast was like, who gives me the authority to do this, right? I do. You do. You give yourself the authority to be you, right? You know, to go out and do the things that you know, that you can do that you're capable of that you're called to do, right? And that's what you're doing now I get to be a witness to seeing you punch through like each layer of that shit, right. And that's what's been fun for me to kind of watch you too, because we've had I feel like kind of similar experiences in that way be like, like, this is all shit. I'm out of here. This is better, but and it's not even leveling up. Right? It's just finding yourself in a different space because even even to a different level of awareness to what already is. Right? It's just and goes back to your belief system be like, how When do I get to the side? Like, there's more? Well, there's a whole universe that is currently yours at your disposal. How do you want to use it? Right? Do you want to use it if you if you again, if you want to use your human self have fun with that. Right? And you've experienced that? What do you want to do with your Divine Self? What do you want to do with your universal self? Like what other kind of mindset Can you put yourself into and there's again, that's unlimited to

Unknown Speaker 43:16 this is so good. Oh my god. Yes,

Brandon Handley 43:20 yes. Yes. So again, guys, it was Elise who connected me with Regina and then when I connected with Regina, my wife had a friend who was medium as well on channel with me so it was combination of my wife whose childhood friend who she connects me with my grandfather like my closest you know, kind of Anthony in my life and and doing it with Gina and like, it was like the the medium wrote like a coming out letter of like, mediumship, right, like to her family, like I'm coming out of the closet medium type thing. So I was like, I was like, You know what, fuck it I'm coming out of the closet like spirituality and we're just we're just gonna go do it and ever since Sinhalese blown up blown blown. I mean, just the doors been blown off the people I've connected with, you know, I just interviewed my man here. I released you know, and and that, that was no following intuition. There was a 215 phone number, which is a Philadelphia area phone number. I was like, You're fucking up here. I'm calling. And I just called. I was like, I was like, I was like, Listen, I was like, I got like, you know, his pm and she was awesome. knew where she lived. We had this great conversation. I was like, I just got to let you know I love this book. I've gone through it like four or five times I leave groups on it, yada yada. Would he be open to being on the podcast and she goes, You know what he normally he hates them. But let me see what I can do. That's so cool. But again, so thank you like this is kind of like a trivia tool, a lease podcast. A lot of a lot, a lot of things because it's been a lot of fun and without your support. You know, in part, of course, like us, all other all other people that have been a part of the journey, but you've been a big part about it. So I thought I'd share that with you.

Elyse Archer 45:11 Thank you. Thank you. Well, any audience? Yeah. And I think to just to see kind of how you've, you've taken every step of your evolution and turn it into something that's good for other people. And I think that's really cool. Because I do think back to when we were first working together, and it was like, how do we sell more of these?

Brandon Handley 45:32 things? Right. But that goes back to what you were saying, like how, you know, there was like, you know, you were selling stuff, and you were doing it where like, there was like integrity issues. And it's like, yeah, you could sell something. Yeah. Maybe you could overcome some objections. Yeah, you maybe get this person to do this thing. But like, in the end, at what cost to you? And who?

Elyse Archer 45:50 Yes, exactly, exactly. Like, what is it actually all about? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 45:55 Well, so how do you I mean, I think that leads into a really good piece. So So how do you do it now where you've got it all tied together, that you feel aligned with what you're doing.

Elyse Archer 46:04 Um, I just really listened to what, what my body says about what whether it's working with a particular client, whether it's launching a program, and I don't fault myself for changing my mind, either, like I launched something new with the rollout of my new brand that was actually it was based on what a shaman who I follow what he does, or just like a $10, weekly, I drop in, he goes a healing temple. And it's so much I was like, Oh, we should have that for sales, that would be so much fun. So I did like a $10 weekly drop in sales training. And it's been, it's been fun, but it's like the numbers started off really high. And then they kind of dwindled with the number of women who were coming every week. And I used to go into panic about that. And now it's like, oh, cool, I'm being divinely guided to transform this into something else. So I'm transforming it into something slightly different a monthly membership, and women are signing up for that really fast. So it's like, just knowing that it doesn't have to be perfect. But if I take the, I listen to what I'm being told to do, I take the action, I'm not attached to it being that way forever. And then I just kind of keep receiving that guidance. And that's how I've launched my programs. That's how I choose which clients to work with. That's how I chose my brand colors. Like all of it, it's just all the

Brandon Handley 47:21 colors, by the way. Don't go gold, white, and red, which are which are all pretty cool. Yeah, I like that too. Like you talked about, like, you know, being able to change like kind of like your your and and, you know, in the business world or be ready to pivot, pivot, pivot. But being able to pivot, right, being able to adjust on the fly is something that I think a lot of people have a challenge with, too. How do you help them to overcome that, like, be like, Oh, I made this decision to do this thing. And I was told to commit. And, man, if I, if I just stick with it, persistence, and yada, yada, yada. So how do you help somebody that's stuck in that space?

Elyse Archer 48:01 Yeah, cash. And it's tough to write because we hear self discipline and persistence. And there's a lot of value. There's a lot of value to those attributes, in a lot of ways, but I think sometimes we get, you know, you hear like sunk cost theory in business. So I've put so much time and energy into this. And we can hold on to something just because of that, just because we already invested a lot of money or a lot of time. And even in our core, if we know it's no longer the right thing. So again, it comes down to intuition. And so if I'm working with the client, we kind of we look at, okay, if you were, if you were starting this today, would you do the same thing? Like if you were starting from scratch? Would you do the same thing? If the answer is yes, then it's okay. You probably just need to keep going at it for longer. Like it's just, it's keep showing up, keep doing it know that just like you said, with the flower when you plant it, it's gonna take a hot minute sometimes, and that's okay. But if you're being honest, and you wouldn't do it again, the same way today, or you wouldn't run this program today, or you wouldn't. I mean, this is a big one, but you wouldn't marry this person today. Right? Like, then I'm not counseling people and relationships. So take that for what it's worth, but you kind of look at, okay, are you attached to this just because you've put so much time and energy into it? Or are you attached to it, because it's actually what you're meant to be doing. And it just needs a little more time to mature or grow or terminate.

Brandon Handley 49:23 I love that. I love being associated. Again, you know, I'm a big fan of the word grace these days. So give yourself a little grace and let you kind of, you know, let that let that life energy just go ahead and propagate the way that it's supposed to. Right. And I love though, to that you're saying you know, if you started today, would you still do this? Right? Because again, we we put all this energy into the sunk cost thing even like, well, the Titanic sinks, it's sunk, right? Like I mean, fucking let it go. Right? They jump off the boat because it is sunk costs, and it hasn't accelerated you or gotten you to where you think you should be by Now and if you were to, you know, kind of continue that trajectory, it's down at this point, right? I love it. I love it. So, what, um, you know, let's what is a, you know, a hit of spiritual dope for you like, you know what, you know, meditation, I mean, having, you know, maybe looking at your son, you know, what is what is something that, um, that's just your pure hit a spiritual dope.

Elyse Archer 50:24 I mean, it's totally hanging out with my son jack now like that's just to see see the pureness of a little kid and to see how they just just their wholeness and their appearances, and his unfiltered laughter is so much fun. I absolutely love that. And then I think the other thing is just when I can show up and give or do something for somebody else that has nothing to do with me. And that's actually, when I found myself a couple months ago, like going through some of that Panic of like, Oh, my God, am I doing making the wrong decision or the wrong choice? That's part of how I would shift out of it is I would be like, What can I do for somebody else right now to get my head out of my ass and focus on what really matters. And that always, to me, that always helps. It's that quick shift. It's like, What can I do for someone else, whether it's write a comment on their social media, whether it's had a client who wants to book club, I was like, I'm gonna join my clients book club right now. And that's gonna make him feel good when he looks in his inbox and sees that he's got a new member. So just stuff like that. Right? It's, it's always kind of getting our focus off of ourselves.

Brandon Handley 51:31 I love this. I mean, it doesn't have to be complex, right? You can go out there and kind of give of yourself and support somebody else in small meaningful ways. And you're gonna feel better about yourself. Hmm,

Elyse Archer 51:42 yeah. Well, and it's the whole Have you read the diamond cutter?

Unknown Speaker 51:46 No, I have not, oh, this

Unknown Speaker 51:48 will be a good one. I

Unknown Speaker 51:49 think you'll be into this.

Elyse Archer 51:50 So the principle behind it is whatever you want for yourself, help someone else get it. So I've got my, my mastermind partner. She's also going for seven figures in her business right now. So one of the things that I've done and I told her I was like, This is not entirely altruistic that I want to help you do this. Like, I'm really curious energetically how this works for me.

Brandon Handley 52:11 It's interesting, though, at least, right? Like, when I started fatherhood, for the rest of us, it wasn't for the pure reasons. Right? It really wasn't and I can look back and I can say that right? I'm like, you know, I did this for all the wrong reasons. But I was doing the right things, even if it was for the right reasons, for all reasons. Yeah. And that kind of tilted the whatever right into into always say like, I'm like the Grinch my heart grew to sizes too large or whatever, right? Like it went from being like, you know, this thing to write. So I think that you and I think you know, are you know, when you collect new Java Roman back in the day, I remember him going into, you know, talking about that, right being like, what happens if you do the right things with like, the wrong reasons. Now, I would say and wrong reasons is really kind of hard. You can't really say it's for the wrong reasons. You're really trying to do it for the benefit. Yes, of you. And of them, but like, you know, that kind of shakes off. Just Just for I mean, my experience has been that kind of shakes off like initially, it's kind of like, I'm doing it mostly for me a little bit. You still feel okay, I'm doing it for like, you know, at least I'm not, you know, at least I'm not calling you an asshole, right? Like, you know, merger. Nobody's a jerk. I'm doing all these things. And eventually, that it's just kind of like rust away until like, this purity situation happens where like, that's just becomes who you are. Right? So there's really nothing wrong with like, trying on different clothes until you find the pair that fits.

Elyse Archer 53:38 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's you always know because it's the energy or doing something and like, how do you feel while you're doing it? If you feel secretly like, with this, this friend of mine, who I'm helping, I'm just kinda like consulting and helping her for helping her hit seven figures in her business this year. It's like, the energy that I feel around it when I do it. If I felt jealousy or if I felt scarcity or like, I should be spending the time on my own stuff. exactly what you're talking about, right, like doing it for the wrong reasons. But I think it's it's, you can tell when you feel like whole excited, fulfilled, relaxed while you're doing it. It's really different.

Unknown Speaker 54:13 You are at ease. Yes,

Brandon Handley 54:15 you're at ease and the things are easy. They're simple. They're fulfilling. Yeah, right. All right. Super awesome. As always to catch up with you. Unfortunately, we can't stay on all day. So where can we send people to go find more Elise Archer,

Elyse Archer 54:33 thank you so much for having me. Elise. archer.com has all the things and then on all social media. I'm at Elise Archer. So with love, love, love to connect. I've got a podcast, she sells radio so people can check that out. It's like sales with a healthy dose of spirituality.

Brandon Handley 54:49 Now, who would you say your ideal client is Elise?

Unknown Speaker 54:53 Hmm.

Elyse Archer 54:55 It's often a younger me. And I'm not saying that in an egotistical way. It's just I can really help them. A woman because I know

Unknown Speaker 55:00 what's going on.

Elyse Archer 55:02 So it's typically going to be a woman who is either a business owner or she's in sales, she's looking to break through her first six figures. And it's like, something's not quite clicked there. But she's ready. And she's probably a little bit turned off by a lot of what she's being taught from either corporate sales training or from the book she's reading and it just doesn't quite feel right to her and she's like, could I reach my goals in a way that actually feels really good to me and other people and I love helping that type of woman so that's my ideal client.

Brandon Handley 55:32 awesome guys. Go

check out Lisa's especially, you know, if you meet that description, I can promise you that, uh, you know, it'll work out for you. Right? guarantee that, you know, to go through some of the coaching or some of the programs that Elise has offered, they will be valuable to you.

Unknown Speaker 55:48 Thank you, my friend. Thank you. This has been wonderful.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

I had the opportunity to speak with Kat Kim recently... we had a blast! Be sure to listen in to hear all about her spiritual journey!

From her about page:

I serve the Spiritual Nonconformist, the misfit, the misunderstood.

In other words, the changemaker.

For over ten years I've applied what I know about behavioral change and spiritual transformation to help my clients create radical, nonconformist change in their lives.

My approach is based on Hermetic Philosophy, New Thought teachings, and the wisdom passed down through the ages by Buddha, Jesus Christ, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

(And Chomsky. Can't forget Chomsky.)

connect with Kat over at https://www.katkim.com/

Insta: @katkimofficial

FB: @MissKatKim

Brandon Handley 0:00 54321 Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley, your hosts here with cat cam and I'm gonna flip it for the new year. Normally I introduced but, you know, cat cam once you go ahead and give the audience a little feel for what you're all about.

Kat Kim 0:18 Okay? Hello, everyone. I am a former crack addict and drug dealer facing three years in state prison turned a spiritual teacher leadership coach, I founded a school called the School of divine confidence. I am the person that will help you overcome your fears, blocks and shame. So you can step into that best version of yourself where you can truly make a difference.

Brandon Handley 0:43 I mean, you opened right up with it. I love that. So we'll definitely get into it. So the way I like to start this off with to say like, you know, universe power, creative source, all that stuff speaks through us right and and our message is received to somebody out there in the audience today, it can only come through this medium. What is your message today?

Kat Kim 1:03 My message today is that each and every one of us has this indescribable, of limitless power that we have access to. And most of us give up, give that power away. Most of us give that power away to the outside world of circumstances and physical things and elections and all the madness. You know, pandemics out there. But I have defined divine confidence to be an having an unshakable faith and knowing who you are, and what you're here to do, regardless of what's going on in the world outside of you. And I really, truly believe that we all have access to that divine confidence.

Brandon Handley 1:48 100% Amen. Amen. I love I love to like the clear delineation of you have access to it. Right? Everybody's got access to it. It is fairly innate. Right? But it's like, you still it's you just don't know it until you access it. Right? Like, holy shit. This has been here the whole time. Yeah. And I love that you've got this Divinity School. Like I said, we have a lot in common. I too have a course on divinity. Right? Like, it's just it's straight up just called the divine framework. But why don't you give me a little bit of what your divinity school teaches? You know, kind of how you landed on it, that kind of thing. Yeah,

Kat Kim 2:29 I Well, can I start with where I began?

Unknown Speaker 2:33 This would you man.

Kat Kim 2:36 Thank you. There's a backstory to this. When I was six years old, my mother began feeding me diet pills. And this was kind of like the lifelong like the beginning of a lifelong struggle of low self confidence, horrible body image, no self worth, I was barely tall enough one day to, you know, put my hands on the kitchen counter. And I remember one day looking up at her. And she was cutting something at the kitchen, on the board on the cutting board. And I asked her, What are you doing? And she said, Well, these are diet pills. And these are for adults. And since you're only a child, you only need to eat half of them. So she she continued to cut them. And I did not question her. I did not think there was something wrong with it. I just fully accepted in that moment that there was something wrong with me and my body and that I needed something outside of me in order to be okay. So I began to feel absolutely ugly, fat, unwanted and unworthy. All by the time I was in second grade, really. And my also grew up in a very emotionally and physically abusive environment. And I started rebelling at a really young age, I started doing started drinking and smoking at 13 doing hardcore drugs at 16. And by the time I was 18, I was dealing cocaine. And I was transporting it from Washington State to California. on the plane, this is pre 911 it was really easy to do this and not that I'm giving you guys ways to do it. But the way I did it was I just snuck the drugs inside of maxi pads. So it'll be weird if

Brandon Handley 4:18 you did that. I pulled it off. But I mean, listen with these days and ages. I'd be like I identify as and and you know who's gonna try and you know, you can't you can't fight that. Yeah, yeah.

Kat Kim 4:30 So, one day I got caught. I was arrested. I was handcuffed in Oakland, California, of all places. Oakland at that time was notorious for its high rates of homicides and violent crimes. Now, I was right there in the middle of that. And I was absolutely fearless. But it wasn't the type of fearlessness that comes from courage. The root word of courage is courage, which is the heart. It didn't come from there. It came from a place of having absolutely no reason. Guard from my life, my future my health, my body, I didn't care. I didn't give a damn what happened to me I was on the fast track of self destruction, I had no confidence, no self worth. And so while I was in jail, I was like, I want to network while I'm here, I'm in Oakland, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, make some deals while I can. So

Brandon Handley 5:19 that's like the central hub, right? All the people, you finally made it when you get to Oakland, right? You're like, Hey, you know, I'm here, I made it. Home spa.

Kat Kim 5:32 Never thought of it that way. When it's so true. I was like, I'm here in Oakland, I'm gonna make I'm gonna make the most of it as I can. So even while I was there, facing three years in state prison, I was like, I'm just going to try to make some drug deals while I'm here while I was here. While I was there. I pled guilty. During that time, I went to the part of my whole thing they give you know, they made me go to rehab for two years. Long story short, I cleaned up the drugs. But this feeling of not being good enough, having no self worth, no self value, stayed with me. It didn't go anywhere. It was part of who I was. And so I started getting involved in really toxic relationships with men that were emotionally abusive. This entire time. Brandon, I hated the way I looked, I walked around like I was the meanest, nastiest bitch alive. And of course, because I believe that to be true about myself, I attracted everything into my life that validated those beliefs. And it really wasn't until many years after getting out of jail cleaning up that I was walking down my apartment hallway one day, at that time, I was very, very depressed could barely even move. I remember one day I was trying to like lift my body off of the couch. And I couldn't because it was like this dark energy pushing me down. Somehow, that particular day, I managed to get up, I was going somewhere I don't even know where. And I was walking down my apartment hallway to my elevator. And there's this mirror that hangs on the wall, top to like ceiling to floor, huge mirror. And walking down, I look up and I caught a glimpse of somebody standing in the hallway. And I see her in the mirror. And she's just kind of really uncapped, and she's wearing big baggy clothes, Her face is really swollen and puffy. And even while I was wallowing in my own toxicity at that time, I was depressed and, you know, essentially just hating life. I remember just looking at her and thinking, Oh, my God, at least I'm not that bad. And there was something about her, it wasn't even just how she looked, it was this deep, dark energy that was coming from her that made me feel like my goodness, at least I haven't gotten that far. And it hit me like a ton of bricks, there was nobody else in that hallway. There was nobody there. It was me, I had become so disconnected with who I wanted to be as a woman who I was being called to be and who I was being that I didn't even recognize myself when I saw myself in the mirror. And finally, that was my wake up call. And this is you know, sounds overly dramatic. But this is literally how it happened. I walked into the elevator. And now you know, I'm facing that wall with the mirror so I can see myself in the mirror. And the elevator doors are closing in on me like this. And I said, This is the moment that I'm going to do whatever it takes to become the person that I want it to be.

Brandon Handley 8:25 No, I love that. Right? Like, even even if, even if, like you know, it sounds dramatic. That's your moment that you chose. Right? That was your, your Pinnacle point, right? I think that. I think that when you recognize that too, as you as you're going through it, you're like, no, this is my shit. And this is what I'm gonna do. And here's how I'm gonna do it. I don't know how it's gonna work out. I just know that I'm stepping into it, and I don't fuck it. That's it. Right. I'm done. I'm a high school dropout left that part out. And then the other part was, was when you went in. It's not San Quentin, but I just wanna say San Quentin. Brooklyn, what do you want to Oakland? Was that from the bus ride after after? When you turn yourself in? Or was that something else? Did you know about that story? Oh, man. I poked around. I did.

Kat Kim 9:24 Yeah, that was that. Was that that? Was that? That one moment? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 9:29 Okay, so so i think i think that's really key here. Because you are at like, this kind of desperate moment. But you're also still very humane. Right? Like, so. For those of you that don't know, you know, she got a bus driver and shovel for sniffing some coke on the side of the side of the road. Cops knock on their they bust the cop who's a black guy. She's Asian. And like, even in that time, you're like, you're like, Hey, I'm Asian. These biases should still look a mess out there. And you go in and you're like, hey, by the way, this is my drugs. He had nothing to do with it. So you you kept him from getting into jail and you put yourself in a position and my guess is like, again, you're kind of like, you're juxtapose them between being this badass and being like, Well, I'm not gonna let that guy go and for me,

Kat Kim 10:14 yeah, it was it was a trip. So this was Yep. I got off the plane when one day. I had my drugs in tow. Pete feathers?

Brandon Handley 10:26 How much were you? How much were you? carting around? Just out of curiosity?

Kat Kim 10:29 Oh, um, I don't even remember. But I remember at one point, I had a kilo, which is

Brandon Handley 10:35 a lot more than a little bit. Yeah,

Kat Kim 10:36 yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. I didn't get caught with that kilos, though. That was,

Brandon Handley 10:42 that would have been longer than three. Yeah.

Kat Kim 10:44 It was longer. But that one day, I got off the airplane. got onto the shuttle bus. And you know, what, uh, what's the I always fuck these words up? Like, these American idioms for birds of a feather flock together? Right? That's, that's it? Okay. Sure. Somehow, I ended up being the last person being dropped off. I'm sitting in the front with the driver. We somehow started. I mean, who starts talking about drugs? Well to druggies. They get together

Brandon Handley 11:14 in conversation.

Kat Kim 11:14 Yeah, somehow it just came up and and I was like, Oh, yeah, I have some cocaine. He was like, Oh, really. So he pulls over the the shuttle bus into the Oakland Hills. And I proceed to pull some cocaine out. He puts it into a piece of paper. He doesn't really weird. I've never seen anyone smoke. Or, you know, sniff cocaine this way. It was just bizarre. Anyway, whatever, you know, you do you. So he, he pulls it out, he does it. And then right at that moment, there's a flashlight that's beaming in in the window. And it was two cops. Because very strange. There's a random bus in the Hollywood Hills just parked there. And he, he literally got red caught red handed, it was in his hands, and he threw it on the floor. The cops pulled him out. And they arrested him. They told me to sit on, you know, outside on this rock. And I'm sitting there and I'm watching this whole thing unfold. And I'm like, Oh, my God, like, I'm gonna get away with this. And then what I did was I I'm gonna I better, I better walk, you know, so I pulled the rest of the cocaine that I had in my purse. And I saw it behind me in a rock behind the rock. I was like, I'm not gonna get caught with this. And as I'm watching this whole thing, unfold, all of a sudden, I get this, this voice in my head, and then it tells me the truth will set you free. And I'm like, the fuck are you? Seriously? You're gonna you whoever you are. You're gonna cut off all the time.

Unknown Speaker 12:46 Right? Yes, exactly. Now's not the time.

Kat Kim 12:50 And I didn't believe in God or spirit. I wasn't even nothing. I wasn't spiritual. At that time. I haven't gone I

Brandon Handley 12:57 we I

Kat Kim 12:59 wasn't high. Okay. Yeah, I was just a girl sitting there getting free, because all of a sudden, it came. And I just knew in that moment, it was God. But I would never admit that and not even tell the story for years and years and years and years. Because I didn't believe in God, it would be weird for me to say God came and told me this. But at that time, I was just I just knew that God said, The truth will set you free. And I was like, fuck. So I called the two cops over and I told them, Hey, you got to let this guy go. Those drugs are mine. They were flabbergasted. They were like, What are you talking about? And I was like, no, they're really mine. And, and I mean, the guy was already handcuffed and booked and put in the car. And they didn't believe me. And so I went back into the behind the rock. I was like, Look, this stuff is mine. And then I was like, and there's more in my luggage beside the car. And so there were they just were like, we you know, because there was one of the cops was like, You know what, I would let you go. But now there's another cop with me. I can't even we have to take you in. And that's when I had all these like, I realized that kind of the inequity of the whole situation here I was Asian girl and there was, you know, a brown man, I'm like, he would have been fucked up and screwed. And I wasn't being a martyr or anything like that. But I just knew that this was my journey. It was for me, all of that came to me in that moment that this is my journey. This was for me. It was not for him. And then I had to take ownership of this. So they arrested me and then they read me my Miranda rights, which is a whole nother thing. You you hear people you hear like the cool cop catching the bad guy on TV and movies and you hear the Miranda you know, the rights being read all the time. You know, you have the right to remain silent and whatever. But to hear it being read to us just bizarre. That was the most bizarre part.

Brandon Handley 15:00 I don't want to say that I've heard it before, but I've heard it before. It's very surreal. Right? It's very

Unknown Speaker 15:05 surreal

Unknown Speaker 15:07 for me, thank you. So

Kat Kim 15:09 it was so weird. And they proceeded to book me and take me into, into sanguine. Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. So that's my, that's my story there. And the funny thing of all that Brendon is like, I just, I wasn't scared. In the cop car. I just knew that this was a journey made for me. And I wasn't afraid of what was what was yet to come.

Brandon Handley 15:37 I mean, that's cool, right? It's, it's cool in the sense that, you know, you just you put yourself out there, right? You were probably already still feeling this kind of Fuck it. I'm hard as hell does, you know, I'm Cat Cat Cat can pitch. Right? Right. And you're like, you're like, you know, you're on in and you're still like, you know, drug dealers, drug dealers, and you're, you're having your conversations, you're still trying to network while you're in there. Just because I mean, that's just that's just the nature of that space, right, the space that you were in. So what I'm curious about those I said, you go on for two years of rehab. That's a long time for rehab. But what's interesting is, to me is how you came out of it with a poor self image. Because in my mind, you know, if you if you go through two years of kind of like a rehab program, they should have this kind of building you back up as part of the program. And it doesn't sound like that was there sounded like the only thing that they were there to do is to make sure that you don't do drugs again.

Kat Kim 16:43 Yeah, yeah. Well, oh, there's so many ways I could talk about this thing that you're bringing up right now. Firstly, do I want to share this part of the story, okay. So I will might as well, as part of the program, you're supposed to go to Narcotics Anonymous, and you know, you're supposed to get signed off and all that. And I went to my first meeting, I went to two of them. And, again, I just had this sense of knowing like, this is not for me. And I do not advise anyone to do this. I'm not sharing this so that people will follow this. But I just, I just knew it wasn't for me. So I didn't go and I ended up forging the signatures. So I didn't do that portion of it. And rehab was good for me because I had to not do drugs because I didn't do pee tests every week. So I I cleaned up the drugs. But that feeling of not being good enough unworthy, unwanted, ugly, that that doesn't go away, just because you go to rehab, as we all know, I mean, if that if it were that easy, then we wouldn't have these issues with people in their in their addictions to whether it's drugs or alcohol or shopping, whatever that is, the sense of not being good enough and unworthy. I took that on at a really young age. That was handed down to me from my parents, generational trauma, that type of thing. And that that is what stuck with me all through these years and into my adult life.

Brandon Handley 18:17 Yeah, you mentioned that as part of your culture too. Right. Like just kind of the same in your own culture. Right. Crane? Is that right?

Kat Kim 18:25 Yeah, yeah. So

Brandon Handley 18:26 just being you know, from generation to generation, there's a you know, just a different sense of being and kind of what you have to live up to, in your heritage versus American slacker ism.

Unknown Speaker 18:36 Right?

Brandon Handley 18:38 Call it what it is, you know, y'all know about slacker ism. But um, so you're still fighting like that kind of image. And then, you know, we're working our way up to the Divinity School. But I know that there's a couple other pieces in between this wants to go ahead and share kind of what happens after rehab, and you're still fighting with your image.

Kat Kim 18:57 Yeah, so it's that, you know, I'm getting involved in really toxic relationships with people. There's just it was so so unhealthy. And it was that moment. Again, it was it wasn't until that moment, I was walking down my apartment hallway, I saw that version of myself, that was not really me, but that had been living my entire life. And that was that moment where I decided I would do whatever it takes to become the woman that I wanted to be to be. I wanted to be beautiful. I want to be powerful. I wanted to make an impact and transform lives. And I wanted to walk into a room and have people notice me not forget that I ever existed, because that's who that's usually what would have happened at that time. And so, I began studying everything under the sun around transformation. I was so upset I became obsessed about transformation. So I became a professional certified image consultant, I began to study like colors and style. Like how do you accentuate the most beautiful part A person's face and body instead of hiding yourself all the time. And then I became a nationally certified personal trainer to understand what the body goes through to undergo to undergo transformation. And this kept on taking me deeper and deeper. And then I became a transformative life coach, I studied three years about the mindset and you know how our thoughts and our feelings impact our, our behavior and our results. And interestingly, this quest for transformation on the outside kept taking me deeper and deeper inside into the world of spirituality, metaphysics and quantum physics, where I discovered that everything that we are seeking on the outside everything, whether it's more money, better relationships, better health, all of that, all of that does not exist unless it exists on the inside, in the metaphysical world, beyond the physical within our minds and our hearts. And this is where I discovered that if we want something in the outside world, that thing is not going to happen unless we it's within us unless we're embodying that thing. That's where I discovered where transformation happens the quickest and the easiest, and and then on another level, Brandon, it's like this. I just because I was so obsessed about like finding the source of all things I discovered. Without knowing it. And without wanting this, I discovered that the source of all things is his spirit, or God, I

Brandon Handley 21:35 was gonna I was gonna try. I was gonna try and garble it out there. And you know, maybe I'll have to, like beep it out or something. She gave us the answer, but nobody knows.

Unknown Speaker 21:45 Yeah,

Brandon Handley 21:46 yes. Yes. Um, so, yes, yes. And yes. I love it. Right, like so. I'll let you continue, then I'll then I'll then I'll throw some more stuff at you.

Kat Kim 21:57 Yeah, yeah. Well, and this is what I discovered where divine confidence comes from. It's an unshakable faith in knowing who you are and what you're here to do, regardless of what's going on in the world outside of you. That means regardless of how much money you have, regardless who the President is, regardless of a global pandemic, regardless of your past and your history, and all the mistakes and you know, things that you've done, divine confidence is is is this unshakable faith and knowing who you are and what you're here to do. And this is why this is where I've committed myself to helping other women, other people like me go through that same transformation, and that's where I founded the School of divine confidence. But I primarily work with people kind of like myself, non conformists, misfits, people who've always felt like they've had one side, one side.

Brandon Handley 22:48 So you, nonconformists, misfits, I was listening to you earlier today. And I thought at first I thought you said nonconformist mystics. I was like, well, that's cool, too. Like, it could be nonconformist mistakes. I mean, yeah, I would have to say a mystic is a non conformance by like, you know, default, but like, why not like non conformance mistakes as well. So continue?

Kat Kim 23:08 spot on, spot on? Absolutely. Yeah. All of the above? Um, yeah, you know, I work I work with people who've always felt like they've had to fit in, but they don't, and they're always trying to conform, but they can't. Those are the people that I love. And I actually call my people, misfits and mutants. Because when, when one time one of my clients called me Professor X, and he said, You are like Professor X, you you see what, you know, the the gift in people, but you only work with mutants, like that. So spot on.

Unknown Speaker 23:44 Yeah,

Brandon Handley 23:44 I get it. You know, I think that's got to be the deal is it's funny, you know, so my kind of my five words or whatever kind of value prop or whatever, you whatever you want to do with it marketing? Or just my words, right? It's courage like understanding and and really those people that don't fit in it's because like, is it their soul contract that like, I mean, sounds to me, like you never really found like your space, right? But that's because like, the space that's been set out there is like a space of conformity. And you're just like, yeah, it doesn't fit. It sucks to be sitting on the outside, but in the end, I'm super glad I never fucking made it aim. Yeah, right. Like, I mean, I'm a high school dropout as well. That's something I don't think that I've shared yet. On this audience had my fair share of drugs in hand and sold my fair share, but I mean, look, you know, it's also like you say, who we were yesterday, and all those years before it says that's not like my growth trajectory. I'm like, Yeah, that's it was fun. I you know, I can never tell you that I didn't have a good I had a great fucking time. I had a blast. Had some moments of tears and shit that sucked. Yeah, but like, I mean, that just comes with any territory that you run up against. But then you talk about mindset coach like becomes like doing this mindset coaching. Can we say that? Going through your debating course even though we haven't talked about it yet just based off of kind of how I run mine is like, divinity is a mindset. Right? Once you tap into the divine, you're like, well, like that's that's spirit. That's source. That's all encompassing. That's infinite. Yeah. I think I'm gonna be alright. Yeah, right. Like the whole the whole the whole, like, I'm gonna get my worries over to God even though I like I'm not a Christian. I'm like, I buy into that. Like I'm like, Yes. So the subconscious you talk about it covers 95% of like, all of our stuff, right? Not to mention, pumps, our blood grows our hair. Yeah, there's all this stuff. I don't know how that works. Yeah, I'm doing it. And if I can do this, yeah, what else am I capable of? Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, cuz I'm like, whatever. So um, but everybody has that open to them. So I'm curious. You know, I want to hear you talk. And this just could be me like I hear thinking grow rich. I hear Bob Proctor in the background. Huh? Do I Do you? Are you thinking grow rich and Bob Proctor fan at all? Any of those?

Unknown Speaker 26:25 I will.

Brandon Handley 26:27 I hear you say like burning desire and stuff like that, like, you know,

Kat Kim 26:30 oh, you know, that's I read thinking grow rich. I read that a long time ago. For sure. I know, Bob Proctor? Um,

Brandon Handley 26:40 who are your favorite? Like, who are your big teachers that made you like really? Get it? Like when was like the moment like you? You talked about being like, here's your my drugs. I'm hiding behind the rock guys. I'm like, Hey, I'm in your head. You're like, not right now. Not today. But you're like, I'm not gonna tell anybody that it's God. When were you able to say you know, comfortably? Hey, I've had conversations with God. And that's all spirit. And what got you there?

Kat Kim 27:04 So that's good question. Because at that time, I didn't even believe I didn't know that.

Brandon Handley 27:09 Yeah. So when when did you When did you say all right? Okay, fine. I'll let people know. Right? We're seeing each other. I'm saying, God.

Kat Kim 27:18 When did I come out of that God closet? Right. Yeah. Um, so I began, like really diving into spiritual studies over 10 years ago, you know, yeah, I read, thinking Grow Rich, I read all the books, I read all the books, you know, law of attraction, and Esther Hicks and all that. But I started to really, really dive even deeper about five years ago, there's been a while maybe we'll save this for another podcast episode. But there was another thing, a big huge ship that just shit hit the fan in my life on another level, during that time. And I literally was brought to the ground on my knees. at a certain time in my life, when I knew I was absolutely powerless. And I had nothing. There was nothing I can do. And the only thing I could do was finally just like, like you said earlier, actually, you hit the nail on the head, like surrender. I the only thing I can do right now is to surrender to this thing. I don't know if you're out there, God, but this is you know, it's so fucked up right now. It's almost funny. Here. Just take it it was

Brandon Handley 28:24 this, right? Yeah,

Kat Kim 28:24 it was almost like that it got to that point where it was. There's almost like a freedom to it. I didn't know whether it was gonna work or not. But I think that was actually the key. I was like, yeah, it can't get any worse than this.

Unknown Speaker 28:39 Well,

Brandon Handley 28:41 it didn't turn out that way. For you. That's good. Right? You know, the deal is, though, is like you you handed it over without expectations, right? You handed it over, and you're like, you know what, I absolutely surrender. I'm not doing such a good job with this by myself. Right? And I'd like to say like, you know, I definitely want to talk more about your school divinity. But like, you know, once you kind of, you know, we act as humans before, before we access this source energy in this space, right? We act as human and we deal with all these worldly things, right? And you hear all the time again, not like a super huge Bible guy, but like, you know, you can't do it through worldly means you like, and then you're like, but I could do it through spiritual means. Yeah, right. I could do it through like metaphysical means. And then you also talked about like, you know, kind of this level of success, you've got to have a level of belief that you can actually achieve that and well, if I look at my history of just Brandon and what have I achieved by myself, right? Maybe not all that I want to achieve I can do by myself. So if I just go ahead and I take in a little bit of God a little bit of divinity and then what am i capable of right like what what can we you know, we can go down like you know, the The Wizard of Oz, right, like arm and arm like skipping down the yellow brick road. Right, like, then we're done. We're a trio and then there's like a time team of us doing something versus Brandon, the human and his worldly ways?

Kat Kim 30:04 Well, yeah, so check this out this Oh, this is I remember now clearly what the turning point for me when I went from spiritual mainstream law of attraction to

Unknown Speaker 30:15 Yes, yeah next level

Kat Kim 30:17 to the next level. One of the things that that one of the handful of things that was happening for me at that time was my niece got arrested for the same crime. on another level like she updated me. I was like, Oh, look at you. Same drugs, more of it more serious. And almost in the same area of Northern California. And her bail was $1 million. And I just became frantic. I was like, Oh, my God, I have to get her out of there. I don't know what to do. The bill was at $1 million. It was a very, very difficult time for me. Like I said, though, that was just one of the things. There was a couple other things that was happening. I'll just say it my dad, I discovered my dad had a gambling addiction. And we were $250,000 in debt. So there was like things happening.

Brandon Handley 31:10 So you so you called us just so it sounds like Yeah. And then and then I mean, I don't mean I don't mean to like call it out. But again, with with their culture to compounding that.

Kat Kim 31:21 Yeah, exactly. Hush, Hush. Nobody talks about it, don't anybody. I mean, so much shame wrapped in all of these things. And I got to the point, like I said, where I was like, I don't, I can't, there's nothing I can do. I can't stop my father from gambling. There's nothing I can do about my knees. I don't have a million fucking dollars, by the way. Right? So I went to that part. Yeah, I went to my spiritual center, I started going to a spiritual center at that time, almost as everyday, as much as I could, because I needed some sort of sanctuary. And they had a prayer box. And the spiritual leader at that time said, if you need a prayer, you know, put remote Don't forget, don't forget to put a prayer in the prayer box, I thought was bullshit. I walked by it. It wouldn't hurt. I have nothing else to do except for wallow in my pity and my anger right now. So I wrote on a little tiny piece of paper. I need a million dollars or I wrote something like my nieces. And you know, her bail is $1 million. I need help. Please pray for me. I don't know what to do. I wrapped it up and put it in the prayer box. Lo and behold, that $1 million bail, it went down to 500,000. And then they wanted me to appear in court. I went to court with my brother, my brother's daughter. And while we were at court, they brought that $1,500,000 to 020.

Brandon Handley 32:53 That's awesome, right like me. So that's it. That's and and so were you at a level where you could look at it that way yet.

Kat Kim 33:01 I was beginning to see. What was that? If that's not an answered prayer, I don't know what what is. And this will happen in a very short amount of time. It wasn't like I put this prayer and the prayer box. And then a year later, it was like I put the prayer in there. And then six weeks later, boom, that $1 million went to zero. And of course, who knows what I don't know the legalities of all of whatever. But in my mind, it was that the burden of $1 million that was lifted from my shoulders. And I was like

Brandon Handley 33:38 you said I think that's the thing too, right? Like, it doesn't matter what it looks like from the outside. That's been your experience. And you know what, like, I mean for somebody to be like, well, that's coincidence. Oh, that's just the way the law works. You'd be like, Yeah, but I put a prayer and a prayer box. Maybe you didn't catch that. Right. And so I think I think that's the other thing that I want to chat with you a little bit about too, right? Because again, so let's see high school dropout drugs, bad choices, bad choices.

Unknown Speaker 34:08 And then

Brandon Handley 34:11 you know, I ended up having my family and had a little epiphany in the middle there as us come along but before I came into this podcast and this base literally just in this past year I was doing something called the prosperity practice right like based off it based off the Esther Hicks game right have $100 in your pocket and yada yada and it was I was very very seldom what they want give them what they need, right like because everybody everybody you talk about this I want to talk about to the the spiritual consumerism right but like everybody just wants like, you know, everybody wants all the stuff but like they don't want the rest of the shit that goes with it. I don't I still I'd love to hear more on that but I was like, you know what I was like I'm hiding behind the saying and it's much more than just like this law of attraction and even when I was doing it, mine was more along the lines of Like neville goddard and like some of these other people, right, like, yeah. And then I just fucking, I just, I just let it go. I was like, you know what I was like, I was like this, it's all spiritual. To me. It's all like, that's what it is. And I'm gonna lead with spirituality, and see where it goes. And ever since I did it, like it's just blown up. I mean, nobody reached out to me when I was in prosperity practice, you've reached out to me, people reach out to me, like left and right to be on spiritual dope. And it's just like, so it's just like, it's like, it's fucking crazy, right? Because now, like, when you're like, in alignment with spirit and your purpose, and yourself then just starts to happen. And you're like, Well,

Kat Kim 35:38 yeah,

Brandon Handley 35:39 where's this coming from? Right? That was the other piece I want to ask you to was like, um, you know, when you talk about your, your divinity school, right and and getting into is there is there a piece in there where it's, you've got the self confidence, and all that is there a piece in there where you delve into purpose as well?

Kat Kim 35:59 Oh, 100%, it's all it's all purpose. It's all purpose. And that's part of the framework where I help people, I just want to teach give my students the skills to know how to reach their own divine confidence at any given moment at any given time. And I think that's the, you know, the false belief that our purpose is something is a one time thing. And that it's something that we, you know, our purpose is going to be this thing that we do for the rest of our life. And, and that's actually not the case. That's, that's the opposite of spirituality. Spirituality is being in the moment and the here and the now and being present to the gifts and what's whatever is wrong with you. In this moment, as we know, there's no, there's no, if you're regretting the past and your future tripping, then you've, you've missed the point of this present moment. So, you know, part of one of the things that I teach is that your purpose is not in the future. It's right here, it's right now. And if you can, if you can, if you know how to ground into that and become present to that, what else do you need, and just like you shared, like, once you, you know, align with that, then everything unfolds naturally and easily. And that's what I think a lot of people, most people have a hard time grasping. It's that surrendering and letting go of having your their hands in all the details and having to know how everything is going to happen with us, because how it looks on the outside. Right, exactly.

Brandon Handley 37:26 So so what you see on the outside, you see other people doing on the outside? That's, you know, I can use some examples, like when you know, what, are still working sales. When I see historically, like people like acting frantically, it's always going to be frantic for that person, right? Like, yeah, that person is always on fire, this person is always this way, this is always going to happen for that person. Because we talked you talked about earlier, like, you know, your level of belief is, oh, I have to do it this way. This is the way I've had success before. If I don't metal the whole time, then it's just not gonna happen for me. Right. But like, it doesn't have to be you. Yeah, as a matter of fact, it's not you. It's maybe maybe it's initiated through you, but like, you work with a team, most likely of other people. Yeah, you don't have to, you know, be on them. But again, you're, if you're tapped into your purpose, and you're live with that, and you're, you're, you're you're rolling with Jesus, or whatever, you know, whatever you're doing, right, and you're tapped in the source, and you can kind of step back for a second and let it like, gently unfold and it will. Yeah, but try telling somebody that. Yeah,

Kat Kim 38:36 well, that's part of, you know, that's part of kind of this toxic masculinity energy that we've all been kind of fed into what I mean by that there's the masculine, and there's the feminine, and they're both equally beautiful and powerful, right? But when the masculine energy is about, like, you know, is very linear. It's taking action, it's finding something and moving towards it. Regardless, the feminine energy is about allowing, it's about letting it's about being right. The masculine energy is about volition. So you see something, you go for it. So in this world right now, we that's it's become toxic, where we're meaning we've taken everything, and we've turned it into something that we have to set a goal and we have to make it happen, regardless of who gets harmed in the way

Brandon Handley 39:26 out of success. You're not a success if you set a goal and achieve it. Right.

Kat Kim 39:32 Exactly, exactly. So now we've we've all been conditioned to believe that that's the only way and the one way that we achieve success that we have to set that goal, we have to go for it. We have to power through it, just do it. I mean, we see it all over in marketing, but we see this now in our government, we see this in extractive capitalism, we see this, you know, and what I mean by extractive capitalism going for, like reaching, you know, revenue goals, regardless of who gets harmed in the way we go. So the natural resources that we demolish along the way, so it's this, it's not a person, it's not a it's not a political party. It's just the collective energy that we've all kind of we've all been part of, and we've all molded into. And spirituality has also been kind of swept into that as well. And that's where I came to see that. Even spirituality can be toxic when it's just about what do I want to manifest? How much money in the big house and all of that? And what what, how am I going to think positive, and bypass all the issues that come along with this type of lifestyle, not going to talk about that, but I just want to create the life that I want. And I'm going to use spirituality to do it. And now I'm spiritual.

Brandon Handley 40:49 And that's true, right. But I mean, again, like there's, it's funny, my wife and I were talking earlier, like there's a different level two, where it sounds like you've achieved right, like you've gone through, you know, you've gone through that phase, right? Like, it sounds like you went through that phase with like, you know, Esther Hicks and law of attraction, right? And But you came out on like, the other end of it, right? Where we're sure it's okay to want. But the idea to, you know, want a want without attachment to the outcome, right? Like, yeah, I'd love this to happen, right? This would be great. I'm gonna go work towards it. But I'm totally cool. If it doesn't turn out the way I envisioned it. Right, it could and then maybe accepting that outcome, right, like the outcome they come in, came out pretty cool. Right? Or just being like, Alright, we're gonna try a different way. Right. But not getting caught up in that?

Kat Kim 41:43 Yeah. Well, that's what I was gonna say. But the problem is, is most people are attached, doesn't

Brandon Handley 41:47 it? Yeah. 100% Yeah, yeah. But you know, that's, that's the same thing as even even creating a goal, the challenge because people are like, they're afraid to share what they even want, even writing it on paper to themselves, because they've always been taught, Hey, you got enough, you should be happy. You're, you know, even some of your words, right? You should be lucky, you got what you got. Right? Like, and, and, and that kind of thing. So. So now it's like, but I want a little bit more, but everybody says I can't?

Kat Kim 42:16 Yeah, well, it's totally mixed messages. There's that part where you should be happy with what you have. And then there's the the overarching message that we receive from all the marketing out there and the consumer culture that actually, you need to do more and more and more and more and more and more, so that we get mixed messages. And I think the key here, Brandon, is that, again, design confidence means taking your focus away from that outside world, this is the practice of spirituality, taking your focus away from the outside world going inwards, and really digging in very deep into and finding out what actually do you want in your heart of heart? What is your heart's desire. And that's where the connection to your real source and to your true calling actually is right there. And that's the thing that's hard for people to do is to disconnect from social media, seeing all these Instagram posts of people who have all the money and all the cool pictures, and really going into to find out what actually Are you being called into? What is your true true, true good in this moment?

Brandon Handley 43:22 So how do you find yours? By

Kat Kim 43:24 that process?

It's it's a constant process. It's like,

Brandon Handley 43:29 were you listening, Brandon?

Unknown Speaker 43:30 Yeah, hello. Oops.

Kat Kim 43:35 Um, but something important about that, let me answer this is like, I have to find it again. And again, and again. Because I'm, I am, I am part of that culture as well. I have, you know, I'm on social media, I see all the things I'm not free from that. I want all the money's, okay, I want all the things,

Brandon Handley 43:53 all the things, right,

Kat Kim 43:54 I want all of it. I want all of it. And I see people who have more than me, and I'm like, fucking a, why don't I have that? And then it's that reminder. Well, let's, let's go back in, you know, and that's that process of reclaiming my personal power, and my divinity. And that process is about letting go of that attach to the

Unknown Speaker 44:13 outside world.

Brandon Handley 44:14 So what is your What is your process and you know, to attach to divinity, right, like, how do you help somebody uncover that for themselves?

Kat Kim 44:21 Yeah, it's, it's, it's like, um, you know, the questions that I asked, well, there's, there's first I asked you, you know, like, first you have to get really clear on what what's not working in your life? You know, what are your biggest challenges? What are you Where do you suffer the most? What's the thing that you keep coming up against? Most people are trying to run away from that, but I want to say no, that's actually here to show you. If this is not the thing you want, what is the thing you want? What? So that's how I guide people if this is what you don't want. Let's use that to point us in The direction of what you actually want. But once you figure out what you want, it's not the tangible thing of it. It's the essence of it. So for example, if you want a big home, and you want to be able to come home and take care of your family, and you want your own space, okay, that's great. That's the physical representation of it. But what is the essence of that thing?

Unknown Speaker 45:23 For you, like,

Brandon Handley 45:24 why is that? What what what what does that represent to that person? Is that what you're saying?

Kat Kim 45:29 Yeah, what is the essence of the physical, tangible thing that we want, when we can get to the essence of it? So for example, if we're getting to the essence of that big house, maybe it's connection with your family, maybe it's family, that is the thing that you're actually craving. That's that inward journey, we're so focused on the thing and not the essence of it. Looking at it, the essence of it, that's the calling that's God, that's the way God is showing up for you in the the essence of it, know how to process it. Outside of the tangible.

Brandon Handley 45:58 Yeah, even even on the outside, even, even during Look, I'm not that deep into my journey, right? Like, I think I'm like, three years in, but I took the accelerated course. The meditation, you know, has been something big for me. And usually when I do like, meditation, I'm big fan, I love headspace. And he's always like, you know, go to like, the, you know, make that light edges of, you know, how far can you expand it? I'm like, as the universe bro, let's go, right, like, you know, right outside and riding that edge, right? Because that's where the creation is, right? Like this, in my mind anyways, but then even just today are inside is just as infinite as the outside, right? Like, you know, random epiphanies are inside. But that's what it was, like, you know, I spent a little bit of time digging around inside and meditating and reflecting on the inside. But if you think about it, it's just as infinite as all the rest of the universe. And so I spent some time there.

Kat Kim 47:01 Yeah. And if you think about it, it's like, all of all of God or spirit, whatever name you have for it. All of God is in you just as much as it is in the universe. All of God is in the tip of this pen that I'm showing you right now, as it is, is a new God doesn't get split around. And in, you know, allocate 10% here

Brandon Handley 47:26 20% here, right? It's like the sunshine, right? Like, they're the sun's out there. He's not like, everybody can go step out and get as much sun as you can today. Right? Like, I mean, it's, it's, there's no allocation to it outside, like no shade, whatever. But I mean, essentially, like, everybody gets the same amount of sun. It's like infinite, there's more than we can use and that kind of thing. Just the same as like you're saying, hey, gods, like, there's there's more than you can use feel?

Kat Kim 47:49 More than more than enough, more than enough. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 47:54 So that's fun, right? What do you want to go What's next?

Kat Kim 48:01 Oh, well, hmm. You know, I think the interesting part of all this is yet like, you know, I was on this spiritual journey, manifesting things teaching people how to manifest and then and then it was like, I went to this kind of dark night of the soul again on I do that a lot. Dammit.

I need to cut those down.

Brandon Handley 48:24 Here's the thing. I don't know that I've had any, you know, so like, I'm almost jealous, but I'm not. Like I was like, dark night of the soul. But I'm like, I'm not gonna pass. I'm cool.

Kat Kim 48:36 No, they suck. But yeah, you should just pass but I um, you know, this is now I started going to my spiritual center, I did the prayer and the prayer box got obsessed with this thing called God and prayer.

Brandon Handley 48:52 What kind of spiritual center was it by the way,

Kat Kim 48:54 it's called science of mind the centers for spiritual living. It's a philosophy of thought that really combines it goes into the golden thread of all spiritual traditions and essentially boils it down to that we are all one and we all come from one source. And it's it wasn't recognized it didn't it wasn't trying to be a religion, but it became a religion is now officially recognized as a religion as of maybe five years ago or so. And I started just really going deeply its study of mysticism, essentially. And I became licensed as a spiritual practitioner took me three, three years to do that. And I learned about our connection to source and you know, the power of prayer and I read all these cool books. It was just like, it was like, law of attraction on crack.

Brandon Handley 49:48 Yes. It's like it's a it's a you know, it's more than a force multiplier, right. Like it's and and I love you know, I love that you bring up drugs right? Because Here's the deal to like, how would you define the difference between you know, being cracked out or high versus having a spiritual high?

Kat Kim 50:15 Well,

Unknown Speaker 50:18 I don't know. I mean, one of

Unknown Speaker 50:19 I mean,

Kat Kim 50:20 one's gonna fuck you up physically. I mean, as your I mean, the reason I'm, I'm trying to go back to my days of smoking crack and all that I'm like, the only thing that I can you're kind of giving me like, what do you call it when you have like a craving? I'm having a moment where I'm like, oh, that would be really nice if I could smoke.

Brandon Handley 50:44 Right there. I mean, crack wasn't my thing. But like, yeah, definitely, like, I'm always like, you know, I did, did the party scene right back in the day, like the rays and dance and all that stuff. And I'm always like, Man, you know, I wouldn't mind a couple pills and some acid. It's just gonna dance,

Kat Kim 51:00 acid, ecstasy, cocaine, all of this. Yeah, you're making me feel like oh, that would be

Brandon Handley 51:13 the question was question was is, you know, when when you think about it, right? And your connection to spirituality versus that same ethereal high that you get when on drugs, right. So you get that you get that kind of high when you're on drugs. But then there's the kind of high when you get when you're in spirit to aka spiritual dope, right? Like right now. That's where spiritual doubt comes from, like, get your head in spiritual dope, because like, you can have this. So how would you define the difference between the two?

Kat Kim 51:39 Really good question. Um, so here are the here the similarities that I am that I'm putting together that I have never really thought of it because no one's asked me that question. And this is really important for people to know who are on a spiritual journey. So when you do drugs, as you know, you get high, and then you you have that crash, you crash afterwards. And it really, really sucks depending on the drug that you do and how much it's I mean, you're out for days. The same thing is with spiritual highs as well. And I think that's the thing, a lot of people who are on a spiritual journey, they're seeking this, the eternal high. Like, once they get there to some sort of Nirvana that they're gonna stay there. And then when they dip, you know, when they crash, that they're doing spirituality wrong. And I want to tell you, actually, it's, it's still it's all part of that journey. And that's the part the dip, you know, the crashing the part where you don't feel good about yourself, the where the part where you are confused, and there's darkness. I, I would want people to know, and this is what I teach in the school, divine confidence, too, is that there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with being there. It's all part of the journey. And trying to go for that peak and that high. And dismissing everything else as not being spiritual and doing it wrong. That's where that's where you get fucked up. Because now now you're trying to constantly seek for that hot, you're a fucking drug addict. Damn it.

Brandon Handley 53:10 is. And then and then the deal is, though, is this like? Yeah. But I could think of worse habits.

Unknown Speaker 53:19 I know.

Brandon Handley 53:22 That so so. But that's a great call out right. I mean, I probably hadn't thought about it. And that that in that fashion before the coming down from spirituality, and then feeling like I'm doing it wrong, right, or getting caught up in it. I'd have to think about it right. But I mean, so so you would liken it to at least kind of coming down parts of it right? Where you where you have your highs, and then would you liken it to also like if you have a large spiritual high or an ongoing spiritual high, then there's going to be a substantial recovery period.

Kat Kim 54:01 I think there's always going to be highs and lows to everything that that's the eternal spiritual truth. And in my Buddhism practice, I practice, the passion of meditation, and all of that the personal meditation is centered around this one law, which is the law of impermanence. Meaning that all things arise and all things fall. And if you look out in nature, in the nature, you know, the seasons arise and fall, plants and trees arise and fall. Humans are life. We live we grow, we grow strong, and then we decline and then we die. Everything our emotions arise and fall, our cravings arise and they fall. Where suffering happens is when we get attached to one thing arising and staying there. Or one thing going away falling and staying there. That's where suffering happens is that we want something to stay the same or change but The truth of all things in all of life and all of nature is that they, they arise and then they fall. So when we can accept that, then we can accept even, okay, let's, let's continue to use the analogy of drugs, for example, that craving. That, that, that that sense of like that craving for a drug, you know, or any food, or having sex or anything that drives pleasure. You know, the truth is, that sensation is going to arise and if we allow it, it will fall, it will go away. And if, you know, if we're really practicing spirituality, if we become aware, then we can just simply observe that craving come up, and we can watch it go away. But, you know, we most people can't, right, they want to react, they're reacting to that craving. Well, I

Unknown Speaker 55:51 think I think that to

Brandon Handley 55:54 that, that that takes practice, right, catching yourself, right where you know, you know, making the conscious choice right you know, awareness of all things not just like your spirituality awareness of Oh, that's a craving Oh, that's a you know, whatever. I think that's huge. I like it. what's what's hot in your world right now? Like what what are you working on that? You think people should come check out your school? Is there anything else going on? Yeah,

Kat Kim 56:19 I got this school going on right now. It's called the school divine confidence. But what I've just recently launched it's as this is what be my second episode is uncertain.

Brandon Handley 56:30 sermon. Yeah. I'm

Unknown Speaker 56:31 serving.

Unknown Speaker 56:33 La.

Kat Kim 56:34 Yeah, it's a it's a weekly uncertain where I share a life story, a spiritual lesson, a rant, a sermon on whatever topic to keep us affirmed and galvanized on our spiritual journey, but it's really about deconditioning decolonizing undoing, right? And conditioning uncertain. And

Brandon Handley 56:58 I love it. I love it. What what brought that about for you?

Kat Kim 57:03 Going back to what you and I started off with his I just found this passion for talking about spirit and God, but I'm not religious, I'm not religious. So

Brandon Handley 57:13 is your is your God, like, tell us about your God? I'm curious,

Kat Kim 57:16 oh, my God, my God is my god swears all the time. My God is like, very passionate by God is a thing. It's an experience. And it's something that I can call upon at any time. It's not this thing that I have to pray for, or pray to is just this, this, this, it's an energy, it's a vibration, I call it God vibration. And, and the more that I access that, that just the easier that all things become. And the more I study it, the mysticism, metaphysics, when I, the more I study, the source of all things, is just mind blowing, to know and to really understand that oh, my God, I am that source of all things. So that's, that's what this exploration of uncertain is, is, is a different idea and relationship of God and what we can and what's possible with that?

Brandon Handley 58:17 That's great. It's great. I love that you're, you know, you're taking it out, right, you're bringing it to the people. And and you're doing it in your own way based off your experiences. So that's great. Thank you so much. So where am I gonna send people to go kind of hang out with you?

Kat Kim 58:31 Yeah, so I do these. Yeah, I do the weekly uncertain. I do them live every week in my facebook group. It's called The Confident leadership community. So come on, join me in there. I've got free training going on. I've got things to offer you. Come say hi, I'd love to see you.

Unknown Speaker 58:47 Sweet. Who's your ideal client?

Kat Kim 58:50 My ideal client is the person who just knows in their bones that they are being called to do something important, but they feel stuck. They're uncertain. They feel that the thing that they want to do is impossible. It's the non conformists, the misfit. It's the mutant out there.

Brandon Handley 59:07 Somebody who knows they've got power but hasn't figured out how to control it and is afraid to share

Kat Kim 59:12 Yep, yeah, to come out and be who they really are someone who's always been trying to fit in and they realize oh my god, this isn't working for me.

Brandon Handley 59:19 Sweet Why, thank you so much for coming on today. Kat can really appreciate

Unknown Speaker 59:24 ya. Thanks for having me, Brandon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Be sure to connect with Anthony over at his website here: https://www.anthonymeindl.com/

Brandon Handley 0:00 4321 Hey there spiritual dope I am on today with Anthony mondo. He is an award winning director, writer, actor, acting coach, entrepreneur, author and inspirational speaker. As an acting teacher. He's known for revolutionising a more modern understanding of acting training. He found it Anthony mine does actor workshop in 1998 and now has the largest scene studio study studio in Los Angeles and locations and nine other cities around the world, New York, London, Vancouver, Toronto, Atlanta, Santa Fe, Sydney, Chicago and Cape Town. As a filmmaker Anthony has received a number of awards and acclaim. His latest feature film, where do we go from here is available on Hulu. The film premiered at outfest won Best Screenplay award at q films Long Beach and the Jury Award at nycs East Village queer Film Festival. He's the author of five books, including the bestsellers at left brain turn right and book the fucking job. his memoir, you knew when you were to release in September, which I got? Yeah, that's how we connected. And thanks for being here. I'm super excited.

Anthony Meindl 1:09 Yeah, my gosh, I was like gonna fall asleep during that intro Jesus. My Suppose,

Brandon Handley 1:17 you know, I had to cut some things out. I was like, I was like, is this gonna I wanted to include though your I wanted to include? For sure your you know your film, right? Because I think that's, that's pretty big. Right. And that's got to feel good. Especially going through your memoir, it's got to feel really good for you to have that out and have won those awards.

So yeah, thanks for being here.

Anthony Meindl 1:38 Well, thanks for having me, Brandon. Like, I mean, I don't know how spiritually dope I'm going to be today. But I will try to be my dopest. And we'll

Brandon Handley 1:45 find out we'll find out. Yeah, so how I like to start these right is, you know, universe speaks to us, right. And this podcast amplifies what we're saying. And there's gonna be one specific listener out there today, that's going to hear the message coming from you. That's through source. What is it?

Anthony Meindl 2:08 What's the message? Yeah. You know, I think acceptance is really a very strong word. And really is to me, the walk, we're all walking on life, right? Like, because in life, because at the end of the day, there's nothing else right? Even if we fight against, like, we can use COVID as an example, even if we fight against COVID it is what it is. And it's here. And, you know, if everybody looks at their own journey, the things that they've maybe railed against, or fought against, is oftentimes like a misuse of energy because, or maybe it's necessary then to get to that place of surrender, or acceptance or letting go or, you know, so I think that the, the point that life is often trying to show us is how do we exist with what is and fighting against it is what causes a lot of suffering. When I'm not, you know, when I teach, or I talk about these things, I'm not saying I'm the master of it. I mean, I definitely know these things, more than just being concepts. I do practice them in my life, but I get triggered and challenged. And it's it is also what it is, you know, I went for a walk yesterday, and I heard a little girl, she was like, near her fence, and she just shouted, Let it go, let it go. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is a sign from the universe because I was in my head about stuff. And I was like, This, is it accepting and letting go letting these burdens go? They're a burden, because we make them so often, you know what I mean?

Brandon Handley 3:42 Absolutely not. I love it. Right. So acceptance and surrender, I think are some of the big ones there. And the idea of COVID is here, right? Like this is this is what are you going to do about it? Right? And if you don't have an impact, like, if you can't impact it, then just just let it be. Right. So let's, let's dig in to your, well, you know, what, actually, to it reminds me of one of the lines in your books to write of the I guess there was some, you know, spiritual master, who was a master, but he's like, I don't want to die. Right, right. Like and so just like you're saying, like, even even though you are, you know, novice Dave itches, right? Like, hey, you know, everybody's fine. And I feel good, but there's still gonna be the days that you get angered. So talk to us a little bit about that. So knowing that, you know, all these things, but still feeling these other feelings.

Anthony Meindl 4:36 Yeah, you know, also burning Can I just I want to say one other thing about acceptance, because sometimes when people hear that they might mistake. The first meaning of that to them might mean Oh, well, that just means we're supposed to accept injustice or accept. You know, people dying of COVID No, no, no, it's not about inactivity. It's not About inaction. It's not about pretending that something isn't there. It's really about having this awareness that I think the point about acceptance is we have these constructs in our mind constantly about what we think life should be. And in particular what our lives should be, when I get married, it will be this, when I get successful, it will be that or today, I should be having this because I want blah, blah, blah. And then when that doesn't happen, it creates so much strife and internal and sometimes external conflict, right. And so a more Buddhist understanding of acceptance, when I say that word is understanding that this is what it is. And then from this point, how do we invite that thing in to be a part of something that we also have to deal with? Because it's happening? I actually think it's the rejection of things that cause us to be in so much pain, right? Like, whether it's the social justice movement, or things that we climate change, things that we have not addressed, eventually are going to make us contend with these things. So I just want to make sure that acceptance doesn't mean like, pass this pass entity. And I think that also leads to the question just asked is, like, I think, I think we battle our ego. And I think that ego is necessary. It's part of what gives us the distinction of being in this body. But we also are something other than I always love the iceberg analogy, right? Like two thirds of the iceberg is under the water that we don't see. And we only see a third of that. And so that's like, maybe comparable to ego, right? Like we were missing the the soul of the spirit that is hidden from us. And so we're operating from just what we see all the time.

Brandon Handley 6:50 Well, yeah, it's funny, you bring that up? Because that's it exactly. I think I had this conversation twice, yesterday, once with my wife and another with a client. Just the whole iceberg analogy. I mean, one part, right, you don't see all the all the struggle that goes into what's on the exterior. Also, you know, the reverse thing being happiness precedes happiness. Right? So like, what's inside here? shows up outside there, right? But from the outside, say, you're looking at me, and you're like, you know, he's got all the things. And he did it by those actions. But that's not really it wasn't those actions. It was like the intention behind those actions. It was, you know, the thoughts and the feelings, right? That kind of built up to all those. But I love I love though, you know, acceptance is not passive, right? acceptance is, like you're saying invited in. And I also like, the idea of the the things that we're pushing away are kind of taking all the energy away from us, right? Have you? What's your take on Shadow Work? Have you done Shadow Work is that something is running with?

Anthony Meindl 8:05 interesting that you say that? Because I, in my teaching of actors, right? I I've often talked about the shadow self. And I've given many lessons on like, light and, and shadow and, and without going into too much detail. But somebody wants to do some time came up to me and said, Do you do Carl young? Is it young work that you do, you know, young Ian work? And I was like, No, I've never I mean, I've been to therapy. And I've read Carl Jung, but I don't really remember it. Right. And, and she said, because this is very young in what you're doing. It's all he was all about shadows, the shadow self. And, and so I mean, not consciously, you know, I think I tap into the universal pneus of things when I teach, like, a lot of people are like, were you ever in a and I was like, I wasn't I'm not I don't drink, you know, but like, I definitely tap into the principles of sort of, I think, these universal spiritual messages. And, but I mean, I think that's a great segue that we all are channelers at some level, and that the universal principles are alive within all of us. And they're, you know, encoded in us. And they're also decoded, if that's the right word, like, each person interprets the information differently. And I think, again, to have a practice that helps us have access to that more often is kind of part of being here on the planet.

Brandon Handley 9:31 What's your biggest one acting or do you have something else? Right?

Anthony Meindl 9:34 No, it's interesting, because when I when I work with actors, Brandon, I definitely feel like I channel like I go to I mean, that's it's such a, whatever that word means to people, but I definitely am. So in the moment. I don't know what I say. Oftentimes, like today I was coaching somebody and he could see here I just, he was like, Oh my god, you got to write that down. I was like, I don't know what I said that he would tell Really good. Because I was like, it's brilliant. Because I don't think I'm saying it's right. And the person meeting the moment and me with them observing it gives the insight as to how to unlock the person. And so that is a lot of shadow stuff, too, is like, I do think it's scary. But I think COVID is a great reminder, going into the underbelly of stuff that is very scary and confrontational is necessary for us to get to the other side of what is our purpose? Why are we here? What is this mean? Who are we like, but but if we, if we continue to go on living, like I think, especially as we had been, I think we're, we're really asleep at the wheel. You know, what I mean?

Brandon Handley 10:47 Not 100%, I, you know, I hate to say that, you know, with with all the deaths, and all the lock downs and how life is, is a good thing. But like, it's also been kind of this good thing, where now we've got more people who are taking this time to go inside to really take stock of what's important to them, right? The example I use all the time, my wife quit her job, so that we could, you know, homeschool our children so that they weren't exposed to, you know, the possibility, right. And, and there's no need to live in fear. But like, why subject yourself to that possibility when there's an alternative? Right. And and what it's done for us is, bring us closer together as a family really see? What had been put on us x from the exterior, right, and like, so we're doing this from the inside out. Anyway. So, you know, it's been a good thing. And sometimes it's hard to see that right in the middle of it. Right?

Anthony Meindl 11:48 Well, when you're in it, for sure. Right? That's comparable to when you're going through a divorce or a breakup or something tragic is happening, and, and you have to hold on, like, I'm always saying, you gotta hold on for dear life while letting go at the same time. Right? It's both. And, and and then I think when you get to the other side, you you are like, Oh, my god that was so essential and necessary. And I think what you're speaking of is absolutely correct. I think, yes. You don't want people to suffer and you don't want, you know, so many lives that were lost. And we also understand that to be from a governmental place, not having things in order, like they could have been like a lot of these deaths could have been prevented. But beyond that, I think I find it interesting that the universe is always course correcting that maybe not at this epic scale that we're experiencing right now. But like an individual experience, like you often find, like tragedy or upset occurs in our lives to wake us up to this other life. Yeah, you know,

Brandon Handley 12:51 yeah. 100% So, again, thanks. Thanks for sending me the book, right. Oh, yeah. I love that. I love I love that got the where's it so i got i love that. And, and I really enjoyed, you know, kind of gone through I had no idea what to expect. Right. And, and are to let you know, like, there's so many pieces of it really, really touched me. Right. Just kind of, especially the piece like about your father, even at the beginning. Like there was some great laughs right, like, you getting shoved down the laundry chute. Yeah, I don't want to give too much away. I don't want it too many spoilers,

Anthony Meindl 13:26 right. boiler I survived it.

Unknown Speaker 13:31 Yeah, right.

Brandon Handley 13:32 The there was a lot of fun takeaways. Lots of underlining lots of just kind of, you know, gone through it. And just the way you told the story was a lot of fun. Right? And it wasn't it wasn't, it wasn't boring. Like it was fun, right? And it was it was genuine. And you could tell that it was like 100% you. And so I just want to share that with you because I haven't written an Amazon thing yet. So I'll just have to go back and type this out.

Anthony Meindl 14:04 The best review you give me on Amazon was it wasn't boring.

Brandon Handley 14:09 Just didn't suck

Unknown Speaker 14:11 the way

Brandon Handley 14:14 so let's talk a little bit about how you know you went from you've got a couple other you know, bestsellers and you're you know, doing acting and what makes you want to become a writer and then what led you up to saying, hey, now's the time for a memoir.

Anthony Meindl 14:28 I know like I do feel I do you have a birthday coming up next week. I feel pretty young to have a memoir. But I you know, I guess we call it a memoir, but it's more short stories of my life. And like, you know, I maintain one of my biggest principles in my teaching for all creatives is that we all have a story. And that story of our life is the greatest expression of art, you know, waiting to be shared with the world. And it manifests differently for each person, right? It could be you're a cook in New York City. Or you're a ballerina, you're an actor, you're a writer, or whatever. And I think the, the interesting thing is the things that we have experienced in our life, at a literal level, and then at an artistic level, are are all essential on the journey of our life. And it's like what you just said, when you're in it, sometimes it's really difficult to see it. But if you look back at the Mosaic, or the jigsaw puzzle of your life, and pieces starting to come together, you see themes, right. And I just for me, in my work with with artists is trying to take that autobiography out into the world in on whatever Canvas, they want to, you know, share it. And for me, it comes in many forms, whether it's the films I'm making, or the writing I'm doing or teaching or acting myself, or, you know, but I think we do do that unconsciously. I'm just trying to, you know, how you engage with the world is a part of your autobiography, it's been influenced by the things that Brandon has experienced how you and your wife make a dinner together. I know, it sounds so highfalutin, but it's not it's really infused with who we are. And I think we and, and I'm not saying these tasks aren't also sometimes mundane. You know, writing is sometimes really boring, and I hate it. But, but I also know that it's, it's purposeful. And so that's what I try to teach people is how to honor their autobiography. Because so many people Brendan, I think your listeners and and like you were saying earlier about people that you know, see the external or we don't, especially in our media obsessed culture, we see somebody who is successful. And we don't, we are only getting like, they're, you know, they're they're opening night, we don't see the dress rehearsal. So we're comparing our lives that we often think is like a train wreck to something that's presented to us as law. And we then then we link, I think, do a snow job on ourselves thinking, I suck, I'm untalented, I'm stupid, I'm not worthy. My story, nobody cares. And that's when I think we, we lose sort of the, I don't know, connection to the magic of our autobiography. We cannot compare. That's just the problem.

Brandon Handley 17:19 Right? Right. Well, it's, it's the whole idea and is the cliche, life is what you make it right. Like when you're talking about, hey, when you come into the kitchen, and you're and you're cooking with somebody else, then it, it can be an amazing moment. You can make that a miraculous moment. Or it can be right or it can be like, right, yeah. And so, but in the end there, too, what you're talking about in my mind, right? I love to like, you know, make you purposeful, and living your biography. But you get to this point where you start to, you're like you're talking about why would anybody want to read my thing? Why would anybody want to participate? You're making yourself small in that moment, right? Yeah. And that doesn't serve anybody. Right? Like, where I didn't really find in your memoir, and maybe it's because reading too fast, but I don't really find the space where you decided that acting was kind of like your purpose. And you felt like you needed to be on the stage to share all of who you were. So where was that?

Anthony Meindl 18:27 I mean, I maybe, you know, in this, I'm writing other stuff. You know, maybe I will revisit that. Like, I'm just curious. Yeah, no, no, it's a great question. I, because I remember distinctly, I remember hat going out for dinner with my parents and telling them I wanted to be an actor. And, you know, they were like, Huh, but then they were like, Okay, my dad again was like, if that's what you want to do, you know, he was like, go and do it. You know, they've always been really supportive. But I think, I guess in answer to that question, I just have always felt like not an entertainer, but like an expresser. of, of things. And I feel even more than being an actor. I've always been a teacher. Like if I go back and look at my own spiritual life as a child, and like, just the things that I was interested in. I and in my role in the family, I've always been the mediator, even though I'm the youngest one. All my siblings, and my parents kind of come to me as the sort of what did they say? And you know what I need? Right? So it's interesting that I've always kind of, and I was always obsessed, you're too young to know this but all your lives nobody will know this. But when I was in high school, I took this class call. It's so it's so hilarious. Anyway, it was called I, oh, gosh, I think I can or something like it was I can't No, it was called. I can clap. Oh, wow. I hadn't thought about this forever. And it was written by it was a class about having a positive mental attitude about life. And it was the teachings of Zig Ziggler I love Zig. You you've heard of Zig right? I love

Brandon Handley 20:03 Yeah. Yeah, I'm newer.

Anthony Meindl 20:05 Right? And so born to win. Yes. I will never forget, I was in the 10th grade. And I took I took the class because like, it was a pass fail. And it was I could get out of math and take that class. Right. But something deeper must have made me want to take it. And since then, I've always been obsessed with this sort of, yeah, dawning consciousness of what it means to think our way into the world, you know, not mind over matter. Its mind into matter. You know what I mean? I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 20:42 I love that. The Zig Zig has a lot of fun. Right. And and I think that he was, he was kind of before his time. Oh, right. In this space, yeah. And this face. And he's actually, that's actually probably how we're talking today to be to be quite honest with you. So it was through a book of his that I read and ended up down this this path.

Anthony Meindl 21:07 Oh, see? Yeah, that's, that's funny. It's interesting that you start to find these, you know, connective tissues throughout our lives. Right. And you're right, yeah. That the whole wellness movement and meditation movement, and he was one of the original thought, you know, forward thinking people about, you know, how to live our best life. It's interesting. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 21:31 Yeah. So the, the, the, a lot of the a lot of this podcast is based off of, you know, finding your spirituality, right, how you found your spirituality, and how have you leveraged that, like, for your success, or found a more fulfilling life because of it? Right. So why don't we talk a little bit about how you, you know, became the spiritual guy?

Anthony Meindl 21:54 Well, you know, I also, I think it's a great moment, Brendon, to tell people like, our spirit is innate. Like, it's, I think, I think, again, with social media and like anything, if we, sometimes when I like, will watch somebody talking about spirituality in a certain way that I like, I sometimes I find it challenging because it can, again, create this sort of schism in ourselves thinking, we're not doing spirituality the right way, or I don't always feel love for God, or mean, or I want to just say, fuck you, you know what I mean? Right, right, right. Oh, that's all that's the real spirit. The real stuff is right. With it, and we our culture, loves to live in this sort of, like, you know, they call it on social media like oh my god, something positivity, like toxic positivity. Yeah, there's

Brandon Handley 22:53 that there's that I've got. I've got answers for that, though. Okay, but well, so my answer for the there Yes, there is. Toxic positivity. That's the, you know, like you were talking about earlier, in the acceptance piece is just like, oh, not taking action, right? Same, same thing. But positivity doesn't mean like, hey, everything's fucking great. Positivity simply means we're moving forward, there is a positive space here was like, all this shit just went down. Guess what? We're gonna keep moving through it. Right? And, and the thing that you're talking about here is not in my mind. It's like, the genesis of spiritual dope is that spirituality is gritty, right? Like, there is a certain like, element of, you know, you are washed up, beat up, dried off, and you are coming back together, like kind of, you know, hopefully stronger than you were before, or whatever. But like, you get to it, you get through a certain point in a degree. It doesn't have to be like that. But then here's what happens. people forgot like, who they were, like, you know, maybe two months ago, right? Like, you were the person like two months ago, like, you know, I don't know what I see some I saw somebody like saying, Hey, you know, we used to, I used to, you know, do cocaine and ecstasy and lick like, whatever off my wife's nipples or whatever. Now we're getting mad at each other because I lied to the dog was a meme that I saw. Yeah. So spirituality is just that they're like, you forget, like, where you came from? You're like, hey, yeah, you know, you did all those fucking things. And you were, nobody's saying or even. Not a mess now. Right? But you've got like, I love the moment. So share the moment where you truly, at least in the book, right, you connected like with spirituality right before a book fell on you.

Anthony Meindl 24:35 Yeah, I think like what we're talking about, of like, you know, grappling with, again, the questions why we're here. How do we, how do I make meaning of this life? And there's got to be something more right. And I was always searching with those things. And the shorts or I had an acting teacher who asked me Do I meditate after a scene one time and I was like, No, and she's like, and I literally had, like, No, I mean, grapple with these things. But I didn't have an outward process or practice of spirituality, right? She's like, I want you to start meditating. And I was like, how and she's like, I don't know, take a candle do what you ever want. So I started with, you know, I was just like, oh, and I was like, This is so boring. Then my friend but that's this is the funny thing is when you know, the pupil is ready that the the guru appears kind of thing. So weirdly enough, my friend gave me a book around that time, and up until then, he knew him to be very spiritual, but he'd never really know engaged with me maybe that way. So he gave me this book by paramahansa Yogananda. And I was like, What's this? It's like, 500 pages. This is way too long and boring. And I was like, Okay, thank you. And I put it away, cut to I moved to LA and I took that book and everything for I was living in New York City at the time, right? When I moved to LA, and I was like, in my place, my apartment at the time, like three or four months. And I was I literally, that book fell off the shelf. And it's weird, because it wasn't even it was in the back of my shelf. I don't even know how it happened because it was buried with books. Like, I'm never gonna read this. It's never, and I picked it up. And in that moment, I was ready to read it. And I read it. And I was like, Oh, my God, what's happening to me? Right, and it was just an awakening and opening an aha, like, my heart was very full. And I talked about it in the book. Like, I felt a tremendous amount of love that I it was, like a real thing. And then it disappeared. I was like, Oh, my gosh, how do you get that again?

Brandon Handley 26:40 Right. Right. Right. Okay, so I so 100% that I identified with that so hard, because I went through a similar experience. Right. And, and, and, and so it was great. It's always great when you're like, Hey, I'm not the only one. Right. Right. And then and then the other thing that I found very interesting was, I haven't read that book yet. But I just watched a just watched a documentary on him.

Anthony Meindl 27:10 The Netflix documentary? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 27:14 Yeah, it was one of them. Right? Like Netflix, or Gaia or whatever. You know,

Anthony Meindl 27:19 it's called, um, you're the name of it. Not into the light.

Brandon Handley 27:27 I don't remember the name of it.

Anthony Meindl 27:28 Okay. But but it's worth watching. It's a beautiful documentary.

Brandon Handley 27:32 It was really yeah. So it was really well done. But you know, so the my biggest takeaway, though, was wasn't just about him. And it was so awesome. Right? was super cool. Was that Steve Jobs left that book behind. Right, his funeral. That's right. So Andy, and like, you know, since we're in this synchronistic kind of space, right, I've read I wrote an article on just that. This past week. And that was like, the day before I read that chapter. I was like, shop. So and, and and so So did you move out there then? And have you been to the US and our house?

Anthony Meindl 28:07 Yep. So I went to Yeah, I've done every I mean, I went to India and I spent time in one of his ashrams there, and like, you know, I wasn't really I didn't convert to like, Guru is, um, you know, I've been very cautious about, you know, because you you read, or you watch documentaries about major cults, and you're like, Oh, my God, that could have been me, you know, it's like, I'm always like, Oh, my God, by grace. And and I'm not judging these people, because they come to that aspect with such an open heart and these things that we're talking about seeking and wanting to know more and but, you know, with Yogananda was very practical. It was like, there is a way out of this suffering. Just do your practice, get over it. Like, it's really, you meditate, you get your butt in the chair, and you do it. And I'll say to the great thing about when people come to me and ask about Yogananda, or about any kind of meditation, what I always advocate because he says this, and I found it to be true for myself. After I read that book. I did not I didn't just sort of go to him only I it opened me to I did have a passionate retreat. You know, I did everything I did. I Alaska, I went on the journey of finding what felt right for me. I went to India a couple times. And so I think when somebody is is open, then you just have to I did tm, like I did, you know, you try many different things, and then you'll find, like, what feels right. So that's been and it changes and it can change, you know?

Brandon Handley 29:44 Yeah, no, absolutely. I agreed, right? It, it speaks to resonance. And I hate I hate I hate resonating with anything but it's the truth, right, like you'll find you'll find exactly the kind of, this is the space you should be in right now. And this resonating with me the strikes a chord my body's like, it feels this feels amazing.

Unknown Speaker 30:05 Right? Right. Right. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 30:06 So the I wasco was was actually pretty funny too

Unknown Speaker 30:12 loud. Yeah. It's funny.

Brandon Handley 30:14 I mean, tell us tell us a little bit about like, I mean, would you recommend somebody who's a seeker? Does the same trip that you did like down down to? Where do you head down to? I

Anthony Meindl 30:24 think, yes, I did it in Brazil. Also, I have a good friend, who also teaches with me, she did it in Peru A number of years ago. But you know, it's interesting reading because this was way before I Alaska has become what it's become, like, I don't know which coast you're on or where you are. But I'm on the west coast and like, they're, they do Iosco ceremonies here, technically, illegally, like, all the time, it's become very, I think it's great. Like, why not, however, comma, you know, I think it you kind of, and I'm not a purist about everything, because everything changes and to have access to ceremony. And to that wisdom is great, right. But I do think, for me, I was going through a horrible breakup, and it was in a lot of pain, in a way I had never experienced and my friend recommended. So this was only got 2008. So how many years ago is that? Right? So 12 years ago, 13 years ago, and I, I just I literally she told me about it, I went online to the place, she said, I booked it without even knowing what it was. And then I did a deep dive into what it was. And I was like, Oh, my God, and I was like, I gotta get my money back. So I could literally call the guy and I was like, um, you know, and I don't think this is my thing. He talked me off the ledge. I'm glad he did. Right. And then I went there. And I had this whole amazing experience of being in nature and the shaman was from that area. And so I think there's something to be said about doing it. You know, it's like anything like going to India? You can't find anything that replaces India except the experience of India. Right. Right.

Brandon Handley 32:06 Yeah. Yeah. So it's just diminishes the kind of the truth of it,

Anthony Meindl 32:12 maybe, yeah, maybe. And I know that there's, I'm sure there's some great healers and and, and teachers of Iosco that have moved to LA or whatever. And so it's fine. Just I want people to make sure that they know, you know, just make sure you know, the source, that's all.

Brandon Handley 32:27 Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, right. Definitely, you definitely don't want to take away from it. So how do you feel then? You know, when, when you went through, like kind of this and awakening process, right, there's about the same time that you started your school? Right, is around that? Well,

Anthony Meindl 32:46 yeah. I mean, I started my school, literally, around the time that book fell off my shelf. So in 1998,

Unknown Speaker 32:53 yeah. So,

Anthony Meindl 32:54 I mean, I've been teaching, you know, prior to them, but it really kind of coalesced there. And I just, I felt a very strong message to at the time. Now, when I look back, I was not, I don't want to say ahead of my time, I was in the right place at the right time, because the message that I was teaching was all kind of like conscious awareness through our work. And it was very spiritual and very much about presence essence, the moment, The Power of Now, all of those things before they've become so much, you know, they're, they're so cultural now. But I and I was kind of like an outcast at first, because it was very Mooney, still in the 90s in the early 2000s, you know, what I mean? And now that work, the work has caught up with itself. And I am very blessed to have been teaching this for 25 years, because I do find that this is, this is where we are heading, you know, you know, well, I think culturally look at this is a great conversation we're having you have a podcast called spiritual dope, you know, like, I teach from a very spiritual place and, and there's no shame around using the word soul or spirit or consciousness as our real and it's hard to I also think it used to get a bum rap, but it was so like a llama dama ding dong, and like airy fairy, it's science. Now we know what our brain does. When we meditate. We know what happens when we reduce stress levels and reduce cortisol release from our body, you know what it means? So it's, it's those things that were fringe during Steve Jobs time, right, right, are are not fringe anymore. And to have a language around it is it's a real thing. So it's exciting.

Brandon Handley 34:36 It absolutely is very exciting. What do you think the future of it is for us in this area?

Anthony Meindl 34:43 Well, you know, I'm sure. You know, every prognosticator has so many things to say about 2020 and 2021. And I'm like, Jesus, I mean, Brendon, here's my thought about I Oh, I'm feeling like I'm gonna cry. I do cry a lot. Don't worry. It's just tears of joy. I do feel I don't know. That's the first thing. Nobody fucking knows camera should

Unknown Speaker 35:06 say that. Yeah, you're right.

Anthony Meindl 35:08 Maybe maybe a guru in India knows but I don't know, I think

Unknown Speaker 35:13 my

Anthony Meindl 35:15 where I take some sort of have peace I read this book during COVID or a couple months back called, oh my god, it's called kindred and it's about our Neanderthal on Neanderthal cousins, right? And just what the planet was like, during their time and how they were not these brutish, you know, brutes, you know, unsophisticated and uncultured. And they were actually, like, I don't know, quite advanced, really, you know what I mean. And, to me, it was a watershed moment, in a way because I, I kept thinking about during there, and I wrote a piece about this recently, but how during their time, there was no an early homosapiens, there was, there was no destination. Being on this planet, there was no ending to get to all of life was only journeying. And we still in our DNA, we are journey men and women, we are nomads, right? It is in our, our system to want to travel and to keep migrating, right. And I think for me, reading that book made me Just think about the the constant journey that we're all on. It's an and I guess my point, sorry, I was gonna say was like, they wouldn't have even known what the word destination was, because it was all journeying. And it was all uncertainty. And that, to me, is so powerful to live in that place. Because we as a modern culture, because of the modern conveniences that we've become sort of asleep, because of we have fallen asleep to the truth that we are still in uncertainty, we are still in the unknown, we are still on the great journey. I don't care that you can go to the target and buy yourself, you know, underwear for $9 it you at Target isn't a real thing in the big scheme of things. What's target you're aiming? Like we're journeying? Yeah. And there's you you we have successes and milestones. And those are all things to be celebrated. And I love that we have technology that that creates so many things for us. And yet, we don't want to lose sight of the journey.

Brandon Handley 37:44 Yeah, no, I love I love the idea to have, you know, it's it's all uncertainty, right? and always has been, always has been, and you know, COVID prove that out. Right? Like COVID is like, Hey,

Unknown Speaker 37:57 hello. Yeah.

Anthony Meindl 37:59 On a rock spinning in the middle of dark matter.

Brandon Handley 38:03 Right, right. Yeah, good luck, guys. Uh, and, and the idea to, you know, when you're talking about, like, all these things that are being mass produced, you know, getting something from Target that's being mechanically produced, it just kind of makes me think a little bit to have the experience, right, like, you can go I can maybe I can go out to LA maybe find somebody like, you know, off the streets and and, and, you know, have that iOS experience. But am I gonna have to deal with fucking snakes? Am I gonna have to drop off like, you know, go through a couple plane hops go to the river, you know, deal with the tarantula and all that other shit? No. And I mean, there's, there's something lost in in that actual journey. Like, if it's super accessible. Yes, the joy in that, like, you know what I mean, it kind of diminishes the I don't know, it. Well,

Anthony Meindl 38:51 that speaks to our disconnect from journeying. The, the uncertainty that is the truth about existence, being too reliant on like, our phones and things and buildings, and like what we've become accustomed to right. And also, I think it speaks to the biggest challenge we're facing is, is our disconnect from nature. And so that's again, we're part of that that's, that's an impulse and a pulse inside us. And I think we're at to our detriment, we're seeing how we have separated ourselves from this matrix, if you will, the nature matrix, and that that's one thing that I think people are not aware of. The planet will be fine. Yeah, it will, again, turn into another been six or five other mass extinctions and it will turn into something else. Right, you know, but it's interesting to really think about Wow, we've made the thing that isn't real real.

Brandon Handley 39:54 That's fair. That's fair. I enjoyed your your what you took the piece of Want to pay you to the toilet paper roll? And you did that? Oh, you saw that? Yeah. How long? How long have we been here? We're like, you know? Like, not even nothing,

Unknown Speaker 40:07 right? Nothing, right?

Brandon Handley 40:09 I'm pretty sure the dinosaurs weren't like, hey, they'll never get rid of us. Right?

Anthony Meindl 40:13 And then in a flash were gone. Right? Isn't it crazy?

Brandon Handley 40:17 Maybe they just packed up and flew off, though. Come on, we don't know nothing about him. He don't know. Don't know, we don't know. So let's talk a little bit about like, you know, how, how is acting, you know, kind of beneficial during even like COVID uncertain times or just in in a in a matter of finding yourself in flow and being able to express yourself. Tell me a little bit about that? Well,

Anthony Meindl 40:42 I always say, and I guess maybe I should just march to Congress and do it myself. I wish somebody could hook me up with, you know, a congressional page or someone, I feel like I should go teach an acting class to everybody in Congress, because the art of acting is the art of empathy and compassion. And what we've lost, you know, again, it makes me really sad, is this ability to stand opposite someone we may not agree with, or be in conflict with, but still see their humanity and still, to let them in? And I think acting does that, that you that actually through conflict, you have resolution. So I think conflict is really an important. And it's, it's kind of what's evolved us, as you know, as a species as from organisms to it's not been easy for anybody or anything, you know, that to be alive on this planet is churning, constantly churning to evolve into something else. So there is going to be conflict, but conflict does not have to necessarily mean what's it's not a pejorative, I guess you know what I mean? In other words, like, I guess I heard the other day that it's, it's thinking more in terms of like, even, let's say a lion attacks a zebra, right, and kills the zebra high conflict. And it sounds like one person, one animal wins, the other doesn't. But if you then step back and see that it's all part of the system, it's actually a cooperation. It's it's like, it's all part of this thing. But I think if once we become fractured, and we don't see that opposing views are also part of a thing. That's why we are, I think, in trouble. Because it's not black or white. It's not republicans are bad. And democrats are correct. It's not. It's really about. We need both. It's Yin and Yang. You see what I'm saying? its shadow in light. Yeah. So I don't know if that answered your question. But I don't know. I did. It didn't. But I guess my point is acting is the exploration of all of that. And I think everybody should take an acting class, because you're more in tune with, I think it's the scariest thing for many, many people. I teach a very well known. WW. How many W's are there WWF? Or www f whatever?

Brandon Handley 43:14 The rescue? Yeah, I think two Yeah, two dogs.

Anthony Meindl 43:18 Or maybe he's a famous boxer. Lightweight by godsey is terrible. I don't know those sports. But anyway, he either you would know. And then I can tell you when we're done. But I mean, I've interviewed him for my podcast, so it's fine. I can name names, but um, but he even said he was the world lightweight champion, or whatever category class he was in. And he said, Tony, being an acting class with you was scarier than fighting for that crown. And, and I think it speaks to having to be vulnerable and exposed and to share ourselves. So that's why people should take class,

Brandon Handley 43:58 to be able to connect with that right to be able to connect with themselves and and to put them out there and share that right. I think it's that sharing part that really holds a lot of people back, how's acting help, you know, helping that person get over that?

Anthony Meindl 44:13 Well, I think we've become less self conscious about ourselves. And also, we have so much shame Brandon around, you know, we have so much shame around our feelings, our thoughts, behaviors, our past, the mistakes we've made people we've hurt, and again, realizing it's also part of the journey. If we're contrite, and we've learned and we've made amends. It doesn't define it's one part of a chapter, you know, it's not even a chapter, it's maybe a paragraph, you know, but I think we were in a shame based culture. Sometimes we don't have a we don't have a relationship to that stuff. That's also an important conversation to have the shadow stuff. So instead, we go underground with it, which then becomes more toxic and more painful. It leads to you know, there's no doubt That these things then lead to unhealthy expression whether that's opioid abuse or, you know, whatever, it's the toxicity it finds its way.

Brandon Handley 45:12 Yeah, look, I mean, it's gonna make its way out each each thought is a seed, right? You know and and, and you know if you look at you know you you live in LA right you walk down the street cement is broken by grass seeds right that type of thing so I'm in a seat is a seat it's gonna find its own way to express itself right and you know, we're humans that's what we do we express that's we show up to express and it's really interesting how that shows up. So, di di Did you find anything writing this book about yourself that you had forgotten about? You weren't aware of? Were you able to share something through this book that you was like a major release for you just curiosity? Yeah, yeah,

Anthony Meindl 45:56 I mean, I think I've always been on this journey of like, for me, I was bullied a lot. And so I think that everybody has suffered from bullying in one form or the other. Even the bullies that perpetrate the bullying are really probably victims of either their own self bullying or are scared of or threatened by the people that they bully, you know what I mean? And so nobody escapes it and and and yet, so it's caused a lot of damage, but it's also put me on this path of healing and teaching and, and also seeing that it's created my art it's really helped me have a voice and and hopefully help inspire people in finding their voice through their pain and their struggles. And, and so I think, I think for me, it's been all these things help heal. And and yeah, I had a lot of epiphanies. When my editor told me, she's like, I told her when I was in therapy, because at one time I complained to my therapist, I was like, is everything you have to do with our childhood? Oh, my God. And I had great parents, as you can probably guess, by

Unknown Speaker 47:00 reading the book, like your mom

Brandon Handley 47:02 says, I want to know more about your mom, though, too. Like, she just seemed like the badass. Right? Like, yeah,

Anthony Meindl 47:07 yeah, she's very private, like, but but but but even having great parents. Like, it's funny, because they say having read the book, they weren't too happy at first, because they thought it depicted them as terrible parents. Wow, I was like, Oh, my God, you guys, it's a love letter to you. It just goes to show you our stuff doesn't help us see things clearly. Right? So my editor said, I want you to whatever you're talking about in therapy, when you have an image of a story that comes to you, I want you to start writing it down. I was like, Do I have to? Just like, yeah, so that's how the genesis of the book occurred. So we all have stories, Brandon, that's my point.

Brandon Handley 47:48 Not I love that. I was just curious if there was like anything that really just um, you know, jumped out at you that, you know, you hadn't thought about for years or, again, was able to just you were able to just really release something. Yeah,

Anthony Meindl 48:00 what can I say? I've said this, I had the guy have a lesson about it. One person's tragedy is another person's Tuesday. Because this is true. That's a good quote. I've never said that way before. I'm going to use that. But I think I have it in my book. Because my brother, one of the things that I realized is when I wrote the book, and I shared with my brothers some of the things, my brother is that an amazing human being, and we're very close. But we, you know, I was this gay, little kid that didn't even know what being gay was. And so he made fun of me, like any brothers would, you know, beat up or make fun of their younger brother. Right?

Brandon Handley 48:35 Especially during that time, right? Like, that was a very nice times. Yeah, that's

Anthony Meindl 48:38 right. And so I in the book, I have a really haunting story about an event that occurred with my brother, you know, making fun of me or bullying me in a way about being gay. And it affected me so much. And yet, when I shared with him about it, he's like, Oh, God, Tony. I don't even remember that. Yeah. Right. He was so apologetic. So it just made me realize, like, oh, gosh, for me carrying that around. That was like a really intense moment. And for him, it was just a Tuesday.

Brandon Handley 49:12 Yeah. Yeah, but so sounds like you had an opportunity to kind of release that right. Oh, for sure. And that that was no, it's amazing when you get to release something like that. Just how much lighter you feel?

Anthony Meindl 49:24 Yes, absolutely. And forgiveness and, you know, all kinds of things.

Brandon Handley 49:29 So I'm gonna move it back into spirituality just for a second. Yeah, you use that for you know, that's that's basically your coaching, right? Like your coaching is your spiritual practice. You know, you've gone to India you've had chased, you know, you've done the soul searching, you've been the seeker. But without spirituality without you know, kind of developing and honing your practice. You wouldn't be as fulfilled as you are now safe to say.

Anthony Meindl 49:57 I mean, it's impossible to answer random because There's only been this unfolding there is a you can't put that back in the bag. I've got a friend of mine,

Brandon Handley 50:06 a friend of mine, he goes, is he could use the acronym Tina, there is no alternative. You know, but you know, if you look at, you know, I guess the kind of the pre the pre awakening and pre spiritual Tony versus, you know, novice a Tony?

Unknown Speaker 50:26 Ah,

Anthony Meindl 50:26 I mean, I think that they still are so interconnected. You know. And I think again, I think the thing for our your listeners is to remember that spirit abides within us whether we have a conscious relationship or dialogue with it, it's there. And it's there to be awakened whenever you're meant for it to be awakened. And so for me, it was always something that was a part of my experience, even if I didn't know how to label it. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I

Brandon Handley 50:54 agree with that. Right? Isn't? You said it a couple times. It's in a right. It's everybody. It's in everybody. Right? is and what I like, though, what you just said there was like, addressing it consciously. For me, I did, right? for 40 years, I was like, I was like, I got all this other shit to do. Right? And then then my spirit was like, I was like, Well, what do you want? Right? I'm very similar to your, you know, your moment, like there was like this. You know, days, maybe weeks, I forget exactly how long like you've got this kind of natural, vibrant body. Hi, you're like, I didn't miss anything. I didn't take anything. And so what's happening right now, you know, in my mind, after talking to several people, it could only be one thing. Right? So but it's it's inside of everybody. And having that conscious conversation with it, I think is the important thing, and not giving up who you already are kind of really loose back into this too. Because, like you said, You're not separate from who you ever were just because like, you know, you have this spiritual moment. It's not changing yourself either. Right. And we talked about like the the grittiness, allowing it to still be gritty, like, I mean, yeah, it's okay.

Anthony Meindl 52:12 It's work, right? I mean, it is work. It's a relationship like any other. I also think though, as I've gotten older, I have a birthday next week. And I, I, when I look back at those stories I told or when I think about even my 30s, cuz I'm gonna be 53. I'm like, whoa, I'm a completely different Tony. And if, if you follow science, right, they say, cellularly, your body is regenerated every seven years or something like that, or so I am, like, at a atomic place, I am completely a cellular place, I'm different. But also your awareness and your evolution. If you do work on yourself, you are changed. I don't even really identify with that, Tony. So every decade or every year, really, you're a different person, which is so cool. That also speaks to how people can change even though I know there's the saying that you can't change someone, but we do change.

Brandon Handley 53:05 Rod, you had a great line in the book too, about realizing in a relationship that, you know, you can't change somebody realize you can't change anybody that the only thing is leftovers, like love or something like that. That was like a really good was a good line. It's right. And it is and then the other part, too, that you mentioned there was your awakening was a Saturn, you know, rebirth away, you know? 29 so I'm in I'm in one of those this year, I think. So, which is also just more entertainment value for me as I'm reading the book. Anyways, listen, I you know, I identified with it, you know, you know, it must have been a challenge, you know, sounds like it was a challenge, especially growing up gay in the Midwest, right? I'm actually from San Francisco, born in San Francisco in the 70s. I was back out there in the 80s. And, you know, I always I embraced gay, you know, growing up, right, like, I wasn't gay, but I was like, it was there. So it was just like, hey, right, that's just part of part of life. Right. So, but then to, you know, kind of, you know, be able to express that run your business and and, you know, fully express yourself. I think that's super awesome to be able to see who you are and to Yeah, well, thank

Anthony Meindl 54:15 you, Brandon. I feel like I've known you and I, it's so great to have this talk about I'm so inspired. Like, I feel like I can I have to go teach it a little bit. But I feel like oh my god, the class tonight is gonna get an extra dose of spiritual dope ism. Now. That's right. That's right.

Brandon Handley 54:31 Get your head. Right. So get your commercial dope, Tony. Thanks again for being on Where should I go and send? Is there anything else that you want to you want to cover anything else you want?

Unknown Speaker 54:42 covered at all? Awesome.

Brandon Handley 54:44 Where should we send people to go hang out and find you? Yeah,

Anthony Meindl 54:48 I mean, I guess if they're interested in my work, I guess, acting related or otherwise, you can go to our website www dot Anthony meindl memd elle.com and then you can always find me on Instagram, just Anthony meindl I'm on Twitter, but I don't really use Twitter. I just, it's too much so but so but I am on Instagram because I like photos. So, you know, you can always hit me up there and, you know, I really do try to answer people's questions if they DM me and I try to be in service as best I can. So,

Unknown Speaker 55:24 yeah, awesome. Thanks again.

Unknown Speaker 55:27 Thanks, man.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Connect with Adam Walton on his website here: https://thementalmasteryalliance.com/

Brandon Handley 0:00 4321 Hey there Spiritual Dope, this is your host with the most the voice of a generation. Brandon Handley. And I'm on today with the Adam Walton. Adam. What are you running these days? Man? What Where should I? You know, even if I just say it, I think the I know you best is the mental mastery, but I believe you're the mental mastery Alliance now.

Adam Walton 0:26 I've always been the mental mastery Alliance.

Brandon Handley 0:30 So there you go. You know, I know Adam as he's one of my first coaches, Adams actually the person that gave me that line that I that I just threw out at the beginning, they're the the voice of a generation without Adam. You would not have the voice of a generation does know that. I think he did that. Right.

Adam Walton 0:48 I did kind of know that. Yeah. But I mean, the reality is, they would have the voice of a generation because my friend, you still exist. And you were partially there, I just figured why not glorified. And that, that's, it's it's 100%. Sure, like you really have to envision what you want. And just like anyone that's getting started in anything that's new, it's really hard to believe in yourself. So when you start announcing yourself as the voice of a generation, you live up to your monitors, you really step into that power. So it's not like you have to, you know, slow it down or play small, you know, when you are the voice of a generation, which you currently are right now. You stepped right into it.

Brandon Handley 1:30 I love it. I always like to say that. And I it's funny, every time I say this, I always expect somebody to send something to me. But nobody's ever said that I can't be the voice of a generation.

Adam Walton 1:41 Right? You've also never specified which generation so all the haters can beat

Brandon Handley 1:46 the hell out. So I usually like to start this with a phone one, right? The The idea is that the universe, God, whatever speaks through us, right? And somebody listening to this podcast right now is going to get a message that can only be delivered through source through Adam Walton to them, what does that message, do more.

Adam Walton 2:12 Simply put, do more, no matter what you're doing right now do more. And that's that's the one piece of advice that will get you from where you are to where you need to be. If you there's there's a there's a statement, when you have a job, when you work for somebody, when somebody is hired you to complete their tasks. always deliver more than is expected. And when you do that, you change the way you operate. sequentially, you change the way you operate mentally, you change the way you operate physically and spiritually. If you're saying I am tasked to do this thing, then that is the limitation you put on yourself, that is what you will do. And you will do a basic job of it. When you do more than is expected.

Unknown Speaker 3:00 You'll always amplify.

Adam Walton 3:04 In other words, your tasks, you'll amplify your output. And when you amplify your output, you feel it internally. So without trying to seek praise from anyone or anything anywhere, other than how you feel about yourself, always do more.

Brandon Handley 3:25 I mean, I think it's pretty, it's pretty powerful message. how,

Adam Walton 3:28 you know, what's a good example of that? Because I think that I know that for myself. You know, historically, it's like do more as I do more of what, how right? What would you tell somebody do more looks like? Just like you said, do more of what and how if you're going to take up the moniker of doing more. And then you ask yourself, what more can I do? Well, now you've got an you know, you've got to give yourself an answer. And when you do you execute on doing more so simply by asking the question you have effectively done more. Also, when you're on that line of thought, you have the ability to to create more. And there are so many times and I'll tell you this just like the more you try to push in anything and the more you try to do something positive you're gonna get you're you know, you're gonna get a pushback, a naysayer, anything. Because if you're if you've decided at this moment in time that you're going to step into your purpose, for example, know that if you've not started this journey, you are starting from the beginning. But the beginning is a little bit into the race and into the race, you're still in the crowd. And that crowd is of people you joined a race with that wasn't your race to begin with. So the people that will say the negative things or the people that will get inside your mind are the people you associated with before you became I would say aware before you became self aware before you became spiritually aware before you started this journey at all. On this path, on this journey, you are going to unload these people one by one, so that you can make room for the new people that are in this journey on this path with

Unknown Speaker 5:11 you.

Adam Walton 5:12 It's not a good thing. It's not a bad thing. It is merely an experience. So embrace all of the negativity, embrace all of the uncertainty because it is those uncertain moments that is those negative moments that create the positive view. Five years from now, one year from now next week.

Brandon Handley 5:31 Yes, sure. I mean, you can look at any event or an experience is coming into your life right now. As a negative right now, like, you know, you say, hey, this negative is COVID, right? You just had whichever you gallbladder taken out, whichever.

Unknown Speaker 5:46 My gallbladder tried to kill me, right? Yes,

Brandon Handley 5:50 yeah. And and I think, if you were telling me, you know, you we connected a couple weeks back, and he said that he just came out of hospital. And I think I asked you, I said, Well, you know, were you it was your back? You? Weren't you laid out for about a year or so with your back as well. Correct? Yeah.

Adam Walton 6:06 So what what happened with me on that on that the back part was when I really stepped into my purpose, the world without my own desire, or anything slowed me down, basically put me in bed for a year. That gives you time to think.

Brandon Handley 6:25 So does, you know, but talk to me a little bit about going through that. And before we even got fired up here, I think, you know, when you and I first connected, I wouldn't have put you, I think in the spiritual journey space. You may have been on your way, right. But somewhere along the way, you and I both kind of started sprinting or running towards this spirituality bit. Where did you get like this kind of fever, the bite

Adam Walton 7:01 when you and I first met, I wasn't allowed to be myself based on contracts negotiated at the time I was a entity of another unit. So my spirituality started, my spirituality started when I was born. I never fit in, I was never part of the third dimension, I was never somebody who looked at something and agreed with the television agreed with the narrative agreed with getting a job, I questioned everything since birth. And it's been referred to as a fourth dimensional entity, I arrived here as a fourth dimensional entity. You don't know what that means, obviously, because when you live in the third dimension, you have to look at all this shit, that doesn't make any sense. But you have to look at it all. Now, when you and I crossed paths, I was living my best life. As a sales coach. And as somebody who had the ability to see into people's souls, I utilize both skills. Coaching was coming naturally, next, and the dark night of the soul is the main thing that pushes people into the next reality. I've gone through probably about four of them in the past three years, where I've been forced to deal with myself. So when you step into purpose, when you step into your ascension, your light your journey, your reason for being here, a lot of other bullshit disappears. A lot of stuff that that is not necessarily goes away. And what I find entertaining about that moment is everybody has this preconceived notion of what a spiritual person is. And I don't live up to any of those preconceived notions. I come from a very cruel background, I come from a ruthless background, to be honest. And it's been said that you need to be capable of evil, to be able to spread positivity to be able to be capable of pure positivity, because anyone can be nice. But to be capable, and understanding there must be a contrast. So anyone can be something but if you're truly capable of evil, and you choose against it, or you learn from it, and it creates a new, then that's an entirely different state than saying, I believe that we should all be a certain thing. That's a very controversial statement. If you want me to unpack it more I can. But for the most part, there's one meme that I absolutely adore. And it says, Don't let the spirituality confuse you. You know, there's gangsta under here, and a lot of people

Brandon Handley 9:43 100% 100%. Right. Like, I mean, I don't know that. I think the contrast is necessary. Right? You know, I wouldn't say personally, I look from from my vantage point, I wouldn't say I'd have to know you have to know evil. To know good, right. You do, because at the same time, you have to know, you have to know.

Adam Walton 10:05 And this is a really valid point, because you have to know light to understand darkness. So on that note, when I say you have to know evil, I'm not saying that everyone's evil, but I am saying that the most spiritually enlightened people I've ever met, have lived through some shit.

Brandon Handley 10:22 Sure. Look, man. There's no doubt right. Like, I don't I don't think that I don't think that I'm bringing my personal take is I don't think that. Again, there's no preconceived notion, right? It comes from anywhere, you can get it anywhere you get it, like it can happen in any way. Right. And that's the beauty of it. So I definitely appreciate

Adam Walton 10:43 up right on that one.

Brandon Handley 10:44 Yeah, yeah. I appreciate your journey. Right. So I mean, you know, tell us a little bit about like, let's talk a little bit about like this, you know, as the Adam Walton that I met, right, the Adam Walton that I first met him as his coach life coach. You know, the story is, you know, you've had some success, you know, throughout your life, you built it all on your own. And then, you know, the atom, the atom Walton I first met, even though it was a kind of a package deal. To me, it seemed, you know, seemed genuine. Right. Seemed always, yeah, always genuine. Yeah, always genuine. But the atomwaffen that I feel like I know, now is just more expansive, shall we say? Right. And I think that that's a good phrase for it. Right? There's a different, you know, you said fourth dimension, no being and I think that there is there there multiple new dimensions about you. So let's talk about like that transition over the past, like three years and what's happened.

Adam Walton 11:47 Berbick, the, you know, when I was when I was referring to earlier, it leads into this, you know, when you when you find, when you find when we were Okay, so, when I was talking about evil, you know, evil versus good. Again, the contrast, every single thing is contrast, you know, you don't know heat Unless, you know, cold, you don't know, light unless you know, dark, the Yin to the Yang, this idea of who you are at any given moment is only compared to who you were. And when you are somebody who, you know, has gone through certain experiences and has been talked to and dealt with a certain way, you have certain notions of who you are. And based on that, you have certain notions of where you think you can go. spirituality and how it compounds is, by taking those extremes, my journey, specifically not, you know, everybody's got a different path. But my journey specifically was taking those extremes and experiences and viewing them as teaching moments, rather than painful experiences that I wish I'd never lived. You know, if I go back through my life, and if I go back through my experiences, every last one of them formed who I am, and who I am is amazing right now. But nowhere near where I'm going to be in 10 years, and where I'm going to be attending. And that's not me to to my own horn, I'm not trying to impress anybody, I'm not trying to do anything, I am just simply on a journey for myself. And we're in before it was always nice to you know, do this, you know, be kind to others, and all that sort of stuff. And you think to yourself, it's a good idea to, you know, be kind to other people, for other people. And you're but you're being bombarded with it right now in the media, which is, you know, wear a mask for other people get vaccinated for other people, you know, nobody's really questioning the fact that all of this stuff needs to be done for you. And if you raise that point, then you're selfish. And it's interesting that the entirety of the world has decided that we need to think of other people as opposed to focusing in on who we are, and what we're capable of. Because first and foremost, with regards to the vaccines and the masks, if you're not wearing a mask, my mask doesn't work is such bullshit. If you're not going to wear a mask, and and people in old age Homes is going to die again, bullshit, right? Everything has its own purpose. If I were to walk into an old age home, I would mask up, right, but for me to not be able to have my friends over. And then and then and then be able to go to Costco, you know, two totally different things. And I'm speaking on this because this is the grand awakening. What we're seeing right now is the veil being pulled. What we're seeing right now is the holes in the story. So every single thing that's ever taken place in my life, is now being compared to what's happening in the sandbox is not being compared to what's happening in the ethos of the realm in which we're all inhabiting. So I am now able to compare my life story to what's being offered to me to the experience that we're all collectively having, collectively having a unique experience, which is a very interesting thing that a lot of people can't wrap their minds around. And that's because they're all tied into each other. The third dimension you're all tied into one another as opposed to experiencing individuality inside the culture. If you're a Star Trek fan, just picture Seven of Nine, or whew, if you want to go right back to the Star Trek, the next generation, phenomenal things, there's a lot of stuff in Star Trek, actually, they talked about the Dyson sphere as well, fantastic, completely different episodes. But when it comes down to your spirituality, you are experiencing this world in this realm.

Unknown Speaker 15:21 With your background,

Adam Walton 15:24 therefore, your background and my background are entirely different. I'm not better than you, you are not better than me, a man who is born into money, you know, to a poor man, seems like he's got it all. But he's got his own problems. A man who was born with nothing and no legs, or what have you, whatever it is, you know, he's got his experiences, and for you to be like, Oh, poor him, that's you, implying your experiences onto him. Therefore, you're forcing him to play inside your ethos. It's an interesting reality, to understand that we are here to experience individually, the collective, and you start off inside the collective as is your experience for comparison. The only way you can break out of the collective is to understand that exists, the only way you can understand it exists is for it to exist, which then brings back good and evil, if evil is being perpetrated to wake you out of the collective consciousness, and it's an agreed upon contract, ie soul contracts, something that people can walk into, is evil, actually evil? Or is the act of evil good, because its end result is for you. Now, that's a huge debate. Everybody can have their arguments and their and their competitive thing. Perfect, but it's a topic that nobody discusses. We look at evil and good as black and white. And it certainly is not.

Brandon Handley 16:52 I mean, look, I like it, right? Do you gotta have any hero's journey, you gotta have the antagonist, right to something's, there's got to be some type of catalyst, there's got to be some type of obstacle to overcome, right? In order to flourish. Just like, you know, cheese goes, I listened to this morning. I forget what it was exactly I was listening to this morning. But you know, think of a walnut shell, right? I mean, that for that tree to express its life, it's got to do battle with that shell, right? It's got it's got to penetrate and get out of that shell, it's got to reach for the light. And then it's gotta, you know, then it's got to reach to the ground. And first of all, it's got to know what's inside of show. Look, I mean, it's just gotta it's already knows that's, that's the that's always the beauty. Right? You know, the rest of nature outside of human beings, right? A tree trees, a dog dogs, humans were like, What the fuck is going on? Right. So, you know, and I enjoy, I enjoy your perspective. So what I mean, just talk a little bit about what led you there again, so I mean, your your, your Adam, you know, the, you know, I wouldn't call it like pre spiritually, you know, the pre awakened, Adam, I guess we could have, right. You know, and how do you slip into this space?

Adam Walton 18:09 It wasn't, it wasn't any one thing. Obviously, it was a collection of things. And like I said earlier, you know, being born fourth dimensional, it sounds Jujuy. But at the end of the day, I always viewed things differently. So when I was able to not think I was crazy for viewing things differently. And when I was able to see that the society was trying to give me ADHD, and this and anything, for me to understand why I was so good at sales. For me to understand why I understood what people needed, I had to dig deeper into myself. And to do so I encountered more answers to the questions I was asking the questions were changing, the answers were changing, and they were leading to more questions. The more questions that were being answered, the more questions I had. And then when you stop living, fourth dimensional, third dimensional and you start living fifth dimensional, it is a shift, you go back and forth. You can visit the world, fifth dimensionally, so you can see it but you can't live there because it doesn't make sense because this is where you're going. It's not where you've been. And it's not anything like where you where you've been. fifth dimensional living is understanding and when you can understand certain things, a lot of shit just goes away. And when that shit goes away, you have so much more room inside yourself to embrace new things. You stop worrying about am I going to live Am I going to die? What if I crash? What if I this What if I don't make any money? What if it doesn't work out? What if it does work out? What if I do this? What if I do that? When all of those noises leave your head? You can amplify everything that you're doing at the moment that you're doing it.

Unknown Speaker 19:49 How did I get there?

Adam Walton 19:52 Honestly, I would have to say the leaps all came from Dark Nights of the soul all came from going toe to toe with what I believe To be true, entering painful moments, the back putting me in bed. You know, when you when you're sleep deprived for over a month, and you are faced with chronic pain, you ask certain questions, you change the way you do things. And when you're when you come face to face with your inner demons, whether you want to or not, when you're in that much pain for that long physically, there are people that you meet inside your mind. Dark Nights of the soul also come from smaller experiences also come from putting yourself out also come from you allowing yourself to have that experience. And collectively right now the universe is going through a dark night of the soul. And you're seeing an awakening to the illusion. Some of us are some of us aren't, you know, and there's a lot of questions, I have a lot more questions about where we are now than I did. Before, you know, before you see what's what's what's, you know, the world the game that we're playing, because, because it's phenomenal. So my spiritual journey is is just beginning. I am growing exponentially, I have changed my focus, I no longer need or want what I used to want. Now I want to make a difference. Now I want to make a change. Now I want to have a voice. Now I want to share my message. Now I want to be a guest on your podcast show. I've always wanted to be a guest on this show. Come on. Have you seen the artwork for this, ladies and gentlemen?

Brandon Handley 21:33 I'll tell you, James, James knocked out on that. The CIO sounds a little bit like you're talking about finding your purpose. Yeah. And what's that? You know? So what does that mean to you?

Adam Walton 21:50 alignment, basically, my purpose isn't anything other than what I needed to be. And, and my alignment, you know, what's funny, is boredom. Boredom goes out the window, the minute you start aligning yourself properly, you start you start finding fascination, and all kinds of things. I mean, all kinds of things like boredom is just not challenging yourself. And and it's really interesting, how that plays out, you know, and just this growth, this this alignment, you know, how do I how do I not sound like every other person speaking in broad terms, I mean, it's almost impossible not to because every single person's journey is different. And every single person is allowed to have experiences. And the minute you stop asking, if you're having an experience, you understand that you are having an experience. So everyone out there that is experiencing something weird, they want answers. You give yourself those answers. And then when you start believing in yourself, you you move in leaps and bounds.

Brandon Handley 22:53 What do you mean by you know, start believing in yourself?

Adam Walton 22:57 Well, let me ask you this. Do you think that you can fail? No, no. Did you think that you could fail when I met you? Yes. No. How would you explain that difference? Because you actively right now know that you cannot fail?

Brandon Handley 23:15 It was going through the process, right? We talked about that. It's uh, you know, there is it's funny. I actually I posted a meme. I think not too long ago, just my own meme. I said, What the fuck is the process? Right? Because people always say, trust the process. And you're like, what the fuck does that mean? Yeah. And and until you go through the process? Or a process? I guess. Right. It's, it's tough to discern. So that's how I got there was by trusting the process and going through with it.

Adam Walton 23:50 That's right. And that's, you know, that's basically you know, the gist. So when somebody says, you know, when I say to you, I cannot fail. All I can do is have an experience and make a decision about it. Right, the world doesn't get that just yet. There are so many people that like explain that make that because of course you can fail. I think one of the funniest realizations I ever had was the Yoda saying, Do or do not there is no try. Sure. And I was like, when you're living in third dimension you're like of course there's a try there's try all over the place you do nothing but try until you do or do not. But the reality is that we live in Yeah, and results you live in and results you either do it or you don't do it.

Brandon Handley 24:27 That's the the other one and the matrix, right. Stop trying to hit me and just hit me. Yeah,

Adam Walton 24:33 great. Trying to hit me exactly

Brandon Handley 24:36 right. Just hit me. It's real similar to that. So you know, the dark nights of the soul you kind of went through. And I think one of the things I like to always understand is, now that you've kind of got like this purpose to kind of share your message out. I believe you're still doing you're still coaching and you know, trying to get others to Understand what their messages right align with their purpose so that they can go through the process, right? How are you seeing? Are you seeing a leap in fulfillment in your life. And by living it this way, versus what it was before, and is there any way you can kind of compare, compare and contrast that for us

Adam Walton 25:23 100%, there's, again, you know, the lack of boredom, you know, all that sort of stuff, you know, comes into it. My purpose in life is to wake up lions, is not to wake up sheep is not to, you know, dismiss them or anything like that. But my purpose in life is to push those that need to be pushed, to step into their light to step into the light of change. And it's not even that I'm doing it for them, I'm doing it because I need to do it. Once that person is awake, and once that person is off and running, they no longer have anything to do with me, my purpose was not to get praise from the lion that has now awoken, my purpose was to simply wake that lion up. My purpose was to allow them to understand their purpose a little bit better, and to show them that they're not crazy for having that identity. What was I doing? Well, being third dimensional, I was teaching people how to sell, I was teaching people how to close, no matter what realm I lived in, I was always teaching people. And when you live in that realm, you are always under the gun, you're always under attack. And it's really interesting, because you will find people say the craziest shit about you, when you're in the sales room when they don't even know who you are. But when you exude some sort of energy that they don't have, they want to bring you down. And interestingly enough, that isn't about, like you or them or anything, that is the experience, you have to get stronger by understanding that these things are happening so that you can face your own, you know, whatever growth patterns that you have to face. And they have to do it so that they can understand that it's not the right thing to do that you don't you don't chop somebody down, right? Yeah, the same debate goes with bullies, a lot of people will talk, you know how bullying is bad. But bullying teaches the bully a lot. And it teaches the one that's being bullied a lot, and everyone has these experiences. So you know, it's an interesting jump, how I went there, but it you know, it, when you find your purpose, you understand that you are contributing properly in your realm. If your purpose has to do with avenging the weak, maybe you were bullied, and maybe without being bullied, you'd never have lived into your purpose, if you were a bully, who turned his life around, because he saw how terrible it was for the other people being bullied. And that leads you into your life purpose, go for it. You know, the world in society is so quick to point the finger at so many people about so many things, without understanding that every usually for the most part 90% of everyone who has ever perpetrated a crime or, or whatever, is at some point a victim in their own lives, either repeating a pattern, or you know, built up anxious or being, you know, having, you know, trying to take their power back from being a victim, whatever it is, again, the Battle of good and evil, what contrasts for the sake of the other to contrast. So when you talk about stepping into your purpose, if you're a quote unquote bad person, once you understand that, that can't possibly be true, and that you have the ability to step and move forward, you realize that the third dimension has always tried to make you look at your past and make you compare yourself to who you used to be. As opposed to living in a fourth or fifth dimension, where you compare yourself today to who you want to be. I look at myself today and say I'm not this person yet, I need to work on that, that that I need to go through this, this and this to get there. They're in there. But since the entire world for the most part is coming from, I'm not this person, because I used to be that person. And that person is holding me back from becoming this next person. But that's how you're trained to think.

Unknown Speaker 29:03 So

Adam Walton 29:04 when the world decides it wants to wake up, like you keep trying to ask me about me, and I keep reflecting back to the world. Because I am not the person you're interviewing. Even though I sit in this chair, you're interviewing the experience, and I can share my experience or I can share a perspective of experiences. And you're getting both and I ramble a lot, but that's okay. People seem to like my voice.

Brandon Handley 29:27 I see what I want.

Unknown Speaker 29:29 You damn straight. Do

Brandon Handley 29:31 idea is it's funny, you know, the experience, right? The the idea though, that we experience, time, or anything else, you know, and knowledge is that that is of course an illusion. Right? what we experienced right now is what we're always experiencing, which is, you know, an eternity right. We're experiencing eternity right now. just you know, how do you want to see it? Right? dia fulfillment piece, right is kind of still on getting that right. Do you feel more fulfillment in general? With this kind of wave waving?

Adam Walton 30:20 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I have a question for you as well. Sir. The fulfillment man, honestly, how can I put this fulfillment when you stop doing what they tell you to do smoking cigarettes, drinking booze, being debaucherous being an asshole, all the stuff that you've ever been taught to do in life, you know that small consumption of alcohol, when you put it all aside, and you realize that you're so much more than what they told you to be? film, it's massive. It's absolutely massive suit. Like, I'm assuming that you haven't picked up a drink in years. But when you put it down, you put it down. You never you never went back to it.

Brandon Handley 30:54 Yeah. happiest, happiest I've ever been. Yes. Childhood? I'd have to say right.

Unknown Speaker 31:03 And a lot of that

Adam Walton 31:04 a lot of that is tied into you. Aligning, not you quitting drinking, quitting drinking was a result of alignment. Look at our mutual friend,

Brandon Handley 31:12 Jeremy. Yeah, no. But it goes back to what you were saying though. Adam, I called for the person I wanted to be, versus maintaining the image of who I was. I said, Hey, you know what this isn't? This isn't who I want to be going forward. That's right. It doesn't it doesn't this does not, you know, align to who I want to be going forward, who I want to be going forward, has all these capabilities. And one of the one of the capabilities is, is the strength to to say I don't want to drink and I don't want to hang out with everybody else and do the same things everybody else is doing. I want to be doing what I want to be doing on my own terms.

Adam Walton 31:52 And you did it. Yeah. And that's pretty much how simple it is. It is. And there are so many people out there that will say oh, you know, addiction is this? How many times have I heard 1000 people say, quitting alcohol is one of the most painful and hard things to do. I was a seasoned drinker, and I stopped, right, right. And then you know what they say? Well, that's you. That's not everybody. And I say I can only speak from my experience, your experience. And anyone that says it's hard is typically somebody who hasn't gone through it. Or typically somebody who went through it the hard way and didn't decide to look at it the easy way. Equally, I don't look at it for themselves, they probably look at they did it for somebody else. They didn't do it for themselves. You're right, you're right. There's there's a book out there called the Alan Carr, the easy way. And that is how to quit smoking. And I was a smoker. When I met you, I was also a cigarette smoker. I smoked a pack a day for years. It was disgusting. But when I was a kid, it's just what you did, where I grew up, where I came from, you smoked cigarettes, the cool kids wore leather and smoke cigarettes, cigarettes, they're not ridiculous. And there's no more leather stores. And it's also full pod to where the skin of another animal. And when you think about that, should it it is a bit peculiar where, anyway, you know, I'm my alignment, my journey and all that sort of stuff is is bringing me to where I want to be. And that is, I'm fully able to defend my position. I also don't speak my position to the most part, I don't find it's necessary for me to communicate with anyone that may or may not understand me, I will talk to everybody on their level, I will answer any question that anybody has. And for the most part, I do my best to allow people to simply be, and you'll find in that sense, too, that people will interact with you a certain way. And they will like you or they won't like you no matter how enlightened or experienced you are. There is an energy working to you know, in, in in congruent with, you know everything where magnetically we're all aligned or attracted. You know, there are times where you can take a magnet and you can pick up other magnets and that same magnet will push off other magnets, if you just lay out a ton of scattered magnets. Some will pick up and some will drop off that humanity, right. And if you flip a magnet that picked up, it'll push off as well. So you're not necessarily aligned with everybody at all times. But for the time that you are aligned, go for it, have your fun, do your thing. You know, but to have any expectations much more than that is foolish. If you want to grow with somebody do it. If you want to grow through people do it. Don't hold anyone accountable to them living up to your expectations or fitting into your narrative and your reality. Grow and see who grows with you and see who you grow into and see who you meet on your growth journey. Because the alternative is to sit in front of the television when you're not at work. And that to me is in bullshit. Because there's so much more to everything than what they've allowed us to beat. The typical third dimensional person is somebody who is dating somebody, they don't want to date at a job. They do. Don't want to work at not making as much money as they want to make living in a house, they don't want to live in addicted to alcohol, and not even realizing it. That's your standard third dimensional individual or entity, anyone asking the question or trying to step out of that is, is, is drifting into fourth dimension. And anyone that's actuating, and visualizing, and making real, what the secret, the secret to try to make you know, money off, when you try to make that real when you when you live in visualization. And when you live in actualization, you've stepped right out of it. Because here's another thing too, when you're living in third dimension, you are experiencing everything you've put the effort into experience. Therefore, everything that you have is a result of your physical actions towards the manifestations that you've created. You are living in the result of the effort that you've put in at any stage of life, basically.

Brandon Handley 35:53 Are you saying that the third dimension is a result of like physical activity? And the fourth and fifth are the result of other activities? No, they're

Adam Walton 36:03 all mental. So the third dimension is not thinking for yourself. The fourth dimension is asking questions. The fifth dimension is believing.

Brandon Handley 36:10 I like that the third dimension is not thinking to yourself, the fourth is

Adam Walton 36:15 asking questions.

Brandon Handley 36:16 And the fifth is believing in yourself believing believing in yourself. And you know, when you're saying, believe in yourself, you're not talking about the confidence to do something and like, you know, go climb a mountain, believe in yourself. I don't know, I would I yeah,

Adam Walton 36:33 I don't let me pick up a car right now.

Brandon Handley 36:35 I mean, the theory says Yes, right. The theory does say yes,

Adam Walton 36:39 but what if I said to you, Brandon, I'm gonna give you one year, do whatever you have to do. But at the end of that one year, I want to see you on this exact day, next year, you're gonna pick up a car, you can do that. And if everything is happening all the same time, then by the time one year rolls around, you and I are going to be standing face to face on the side of a car. It'd be a look car, like a 1987. Look car, so it won't be too hard. You

Unknown Speaker 36:59 know? No, look,

Adam Walton 37:01 I'm not I'm not gonna push your buttons too hard. Or you go. And exactly, yeah, so you just pick that up, right? But you've hit the gym, you've done the training, you've you've understood, you've learned you've taken in the knowledge and you've picked up the car. But as it stands right now, Not a chance.

Brandon Handley 37:13 What else? That's right. That's what that's for the thing. Is that right? So I mean, you know,

Adam Walton 37:17 manifestation, that is 100% manifestation in the realm that we live in. It takes a minute to go from here. I'm pointing at my brain, ladies and gentlemen, I don't know if he's going to use the video for this. I'm pointing at my brain from here to here to tangible, right, that belt behind me on the wall. Before I had that belt, I wanted it. Right. And then what did I do? I earned some money. I called a guy, a shipping company picked it up. It came here, I manifested that belt and created it.

Brandon Handley 37:45 Sure.

Adam Walton 37:46 Anything that you want in this world, you create, right, I'm

Unknown Speaker 37:49 created.

Adam Walton 37:51 Now the thing is, we think we want things because we've seen them on TV. Imagine what you could create. If you could tap into source directly. like holy shit, I want that gergan slog right, you know what that is? But go ahead. Exactly. And then you just manifest it. And I was like, What the fuck is that? You're like, it's a gurganus log, you son of a bitch. You want it cuz you've never seen one before? Right? Right. But the minute your neighbor sees your gergan slug, he's gonna figure out what it is. And he's gonna get one make one do one? Sure. Sure. Yeah. So we grew up at a time to where, bro, you know, you and I probably didn't have the coolest car in the parking lot. But we had a car in the parking lot when we were in high school. We didn't have we didn't have parents money. But we had our we had our efforts, you know, we pushed what we had. And we believe where we were. So we actuated based on what we believed.

Brandon Handley 38:41 Well, so so I want to I want to so I'm gonna jump in here, right? There's two things. One thing is like, Alright, well, when you when you said, you know, kilos up a car. And, you know, the working theory is that I could do it today, based on you know, kind of what we've seen before, just out of the idea of like, you know,

Adam Walton 39:00 a mother strength

Brandon Handley 39:01 is everything, right? I mean, of course, yeah, but but right. But because because I don't believe right now and myself enough to

Adam Walton 39:10 do the thing. Tapping matrix 100%. Now, you're talking like fifth, you're talking like sixth and seventh dimension. Because there are people that have done feats of strength on a regular basis. Right, but and there are also myths and stories and these people just tap into source immediately tap into source. You know, if you're, if somebody is trapped under a car, I guarantee you can pick that car up. Sure. Because Because the physics go out the window, again, the matrix,

Brandon Handley 39:38 don't bend the spoon that and then that I think that then there's the you know, there's the necessity that says, hey, you need to be able to do this. So source allows that to open for you. Right provides that for you. And then the other part now, this is this was a really eye opening moment. This was a conversation you and I had. Geez Adam, I think was a year ago. Driving around, and I was just leaving my real estate class. And I was talking to you about this teacher who was in there. Who was teaching motivational interviewing, which is something that I was really interested in. I was like, I mean, what are the odds that she's in there? Right? What did you say? to recall?

Adam Walton 40:21 She was in there, because you needed her to be in there.

Brandon Handley 40:23 But you said, I said, What are the odds? And he said, 100%, right, the odds are 100% I was like, motherfucker, you're right. Right. And, and, and, and then you said, something along the lines of she was in a, you know, because that's the only way that you believe that it could happen type of thing, right? So it's, you know, you create your life, and act upon it in a way that you believe you should be. And that's the only way that it'll happen. So until you change, what you believe in, and what you believe yourself to be capable of, you won't take any actions towards it right type of thing. He won't see it. Right. I think that's the other part too, like until you believe. Right, you won't be able to see it.

Adam Walton 41:07 Yeah. I mean, when you also when we talk, if you're right about all that. And as I stutter, if we talk back to the car, right? The idea of you being able to pick a car right now, we agree that it could be done immediately. But we also agree that it's more likely that you'll be able to do it in a year, for sure. You know, Now, that being said, for you to be able to tap into source on a regular basis and pick up a car is not the purpose. For you to become the person that understands how to tap into source and to regularly pick up the car is the purpose of that we are not here to do the thing. We are here to become the person who can do the thing. So that's the cool part. You know, how many times to and maybe this is just me, but every single time I've ever acquired whatever it was I wanted, when I bought the thing I don't care about anymore? Yeah. You know, when I bought my first car, I was like,

Brandon Handley 42:04 yeah, that's the journey. That's the journey.

Adam Walton 42:07 That's life, life is all about that thing. And now again, the car also, when I bought my first expensive car, I was, you know, fully immersed in the idea of the third dimension. Now, what you have validates who you are, which is total bullshit total.

Unknown Speaker 42:23 Self again, that's,

Brandon Handley 42:24 you know, that's gonna be that's gonna be actually the same conversation this weekend with somebody we visited. You know, once you have a bunch of money, you realize you don't change. Right? I mean, it doesn't change who you are inherently, I mean, changes. I think it does change some things, right. It allows you the space to kind of fall into expansion, because you're not as worried about a survival mechanism, right? It's not necessary, though. That's what that's what that's one thing I always like to point out like, so once you have enough money, you stop worrying about that. And you can start exploring some of these other things like spirituality, right? Well,

Adam Walton 43:07 here's, here's another thing, too, if you don't have enough money, right, you you get stuck in that rat race, right? You can also say to yourself, I need more time. So I'm going to totally downsize my house, I'm going to take up a job at McDonald's flipping burgers. And I'm going to make sure that my bills are paid and that there's food on the table. And I'm going to spend every waking moment after that focusing on my craft, focusing on my message focusing on my person, and creating. So you don't it's not that we don't have enough message or instant message. It's not that we don't have enough money. A lot of the time, it's that we don't know how to utilize our moment.

Brandon Handley 43:42 I think you hit on something there too. Right? Creating, right spend time creating. And I think that most people would would would say when you say, you know, they've got to create, they've got to be an author, they've got to be an artist, they've got to be something else. What is when you're saying creator, what are you saying?

Adam Walton 44:03 Create?

Brandon Handley 44:04 Yeah, but I mean, you know, what's that look like? I mean, it's,

Adam Walton 44:08 yeah, it's it's a heavy word. Creating isn't art. Like, a painter isn't creating paintings. a painter is creating himself herself, themselves itself, we self whatever junction people want to use these days. a painter is creating, and the result of their creation is art. So somebody who is completely stuck in a job that they hate without with a spouse that they don't care for, in a situation they don't want to be in can start creating that moment by saying, I don't want this anymore. They start creating, the more time you spend creating, the more, the more likelihood you're going to succeed. Just like the more time you spent playing darts, the likelihood is you're going to get better at darts. So, creating is becoming right and then if you want to Paint if painting is your creation, you start painting, you know, you start, you start with, with the materials that you have, you pick up a box of crayons, and you hammer it out and you work on your draw, you work on your lines, you work on your dimensions. And then from there, you, you know, you sell one of those things, you get really good, or you get noticed, or you upload it or you go on to Fiverr, you go wherever the world is completely open to anything that anybody wants to do, you can sell your painting, you can sell a class on how to paint, you can draw, you can do anything, you just have to find out how to get there, how to do it, whatever it is that anybody wants to do, they just have to do it.

Brandon Handley 45:35 But that also goes back to again, what you're saying you got to believe in yourself, and you got to want to want to do it right. You have to believe in yourself, and then kind of take action towards it. Right? Just even if there's just tiny steps, right? Yeah, you know, sell something on Fiverr. Go to Fiverr. put yourself out there, right? To be found. Right, of course. And you believe that?

Unknown Speaker 46:04 Why not you

Adam Walton 46:06 a fun story about Fiverr. I'm on Fiverr. And I went on there and I do writing I just two short stories. I do blogs, I do, you know, content, written content for coaching pages. And from there, I charge peanuts, you know, but every now and again, like just the random stuff that is fun for me to do and takes no time at all. I, I have some, it's like 30 or 40 bucks a page, right for 500 words, which I've undercut everybody, but from there, it's blown people away, when they kind of understand when they kind of do some research on who I am. Like, why would I be on Fiverr? Why would this be a thing? Like why would because the perception of who I am, as you know, on the internet a lot bigger than who I am right now. I'm just a dude, that's all I am. But it's funny, because from Fiverr, I get paid to practice writing. Right? Right, because I can, here's the thing, I can write whatever I want. But you know, when you have an idea in your head, you don't believe in yourself or whatever it is, when you're just getting started on any one thing. It's hard for you to be like, I have some ideas and I want to craft but when somebody says hey, can you write this, this and this, these are the things I want to talk about, this is the thing I want to do. But and then you're you're on it, you're like, Alright, I got this figured out, then you go do it just like it's easier to help everybody else. And it is to help yourself.

Brandon Handley 47:16 Now that's right, you know, and I love I love that you brought that up. You know,

Adam Walton 47:20 I want to finish that thought though, too, though. God. So from from Fiverr. For anyone listening from anyone jumping out, the real reason I'm there is because it's free advertising, I have acquired five people specifically that have gone into my full program from a $5 ad they've dropped 25 K, right. So you can't judge anything, you can't judge anything on anything, you should just be wherever you need to be to fish wherever you want to fish to eat whatever you want to eat, and have fun with it experience and drop every single idea in your head that you think is a certain thing and just go and run and be free.

Brandon Handley 47:58 All right now that's that's really cool. I love that. I love that you're doing that. And and, you know, the perspective there. Makes me think about again, like, you know, kind of podcasting right makes me think of the idea of you, when you if when you interview me on your podcast, it's easier sometimes. Right? Just you're just the one if you're the one asking me the questions, it's easier for me to come up with the answers. Because those are some things there's some questions I might not answer, or think of on my own as valuable content or anything else. But when somebody else asks you a question, it comes out so naturally, right? Just like when you're writing for somebody else asking you to write for them. It's, it's just coming right through. Mm hmm.

Adam Walton 48:42 I think that's funny too. Because, you know, you've been on my show, and and it is it is it's different in, in, in in so many aspects because on this show, too. I you know, I love doing these shows, because it is always me that's, you know, steering the show or running this or asking the questions, but I have the opportunity on the show just simply to answer your questions. You know, and, and, and I love I love the creativity because it is it's identical again, you and I can have a conversation. Right, your show is your show, My show is my show both are a little bit different. My show is certainly a little bit more out there than your show. I like to talk about little green men. You know, I like to I like to be able I like to be able to expand on every single topic and tie it all back into source because there is a truth in everything. Sure. And that you know, that's a fun that's a fun conversation I have now like I said I don't have your fancy artwork but I do have you know I do have the joy the gift the gap. Another fun thing too is you don't have to be doing anything like nothing has to be sitting there like I was teaching you guys how to podcast long before I even had a podcast. And that was because I had the you know, I had to know how I had the knowledge but to me I was rammed with other things. I had different stories in my mind. You know things I wanted to accomplish things that I had set out in the in the initial states. I've always said, I've got to get this going. And it's very important that people have it. But how do you how are you to be taken seriously, if you're teaching something that you're not following through with, which was ends because of you guys that I said, I have to have this podcast. So I'm going to keep teaching people that this is the way to have the message out there. I need to have the message out there. And I was teaching off stat, therefore, I was saying, These are the things that I know not obviously through Sam, all that other stuff as well. But for me, you know, to launch into just do it. Like it's it's such a wonderful world to be on the other side of it. Once you you know, once you cross over that, that doesn't even matter. 1010 podcasts, 50 podcasts, 100 podcasts, every single podcast, you get better.

I mean, the first podcast, ladies and gentlemen is funny because it is just you sitting in front of a mic in front of your computer going,

Unknown Speaker 50:46 I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 50:49 100%

Adam Walton 50:50 and then you're and then you're out and then you're rocking. And then you know, you and I know right now that there's an audience right now listening, they're sitting there, they're enjoying their night. And this is the entertainment that they've chosen over television, and I'm so grateful and thankful for that, to be the truth and to be the new reality in which you and I reside. I love that. Every single one of you listening right now, you are amazing. You're amazing.

Brandon Handley 51:11 100% I mean, you know, listen, I think about I'm thinking about the Jim Rohn stat piece that just says, you know, focus on the few, right, I don't care. This one's not about going out and getting numbers. This one's about connection. You know, there's podcasts, this podcast is about connecting with people who are either on the brink of an awakening or just kind of somewhere along their spiritual journey, or just coming along. Right? for the ride. And and

Adam Walton 51:49 where do you think you are? on your journey, right? Now, if you were to say, if I were to say, Are you enlightened? If I were to say to you, on a scale of one to 10? How far up? How far up? Do you think you are?

Brandon Handley 52:01 Like a three? Yeah, because let's just like you said earlier, there's so much there's so much. And I'm just barely beginning to scratch the surface. Right? Where I'm just, I'm just starting to just starting to scratch the surface of my own potential reality, my inner self. Who or what I think the universe is all that all that stuff, man, how about you? It's good question. I like it.

Adam Walton 52:30 Man, I say the same thing. You know, I'm a three, I'm a four. And that's an ignorant statement for me to make, because that's only being able to base things off where I have been. Right, right. Right,

Unknown Speaker 52:41 for sure.

Adam Walton 52:42 You know, and and, you know, I don't know, I don't know how far I can go, you know, you know, that's why I say low. You know, I say low because, you know, three or four fours high three would be decent. But I mean, we could be at point two, you know, for sure.

Unknown Speaker 52:56 Right. Right.

Adam Walton 52:56 Or, you know, we could be at 10. Like, this could be it. Here we are, you know, it'd be weird if it was because that drop off. But you know, I have so many more questions, and I have so many more things I want to experience and journeys that I want to go on. I wake up every morning excited. You know,

Brandon Handley 53:14 you know, here's what I'll tell you. I am though I am not as much about the question so much as I am about enjoying the experience and just being

Adam Walton 53:25 Yeah. And that's it. But that is the question. You're living in it. For sure. Your that's your question right now. That's what's cool.

Brandon Handley 53:35 Yeah, it's a it's a look, it's it's a it's been great. It's been perpetual. And it's been it's been, there's been more joy, and there's been more fun in it. I think, then there's been a long time. I think you also mentioned a little bit earlier, not necessarily about societal pressures, but you know, doing the thing that everybody says you're supposed to be doing, versus letting go of all that shit. Right? And not having all that pressure. I think that that's huge, too.

Adam Walton 54:08 I agree with that. I agree with that. Once you you know, once you instead of viewing peer pressure as a pain point, you get the opportunity to view it as a lesson. It's cool. If you say to yourself, why would I be concerned about I don't know. Anything. Really? Why would I be concerned about this? Like, Hey, man, have this drink? Well, you don't drink like fuck, you know? Why would it be like oh, I really should. What weakness inside me says I really need to do what Chad's doing. Right. I'm gonna pick up my hacky sack and just play because my name is Chad. Right? That's, you know, no offense to the Chad's listening. That's just running.

Brandon Handley 54:46 Sorry, Chad. Yes, sir. Chad. Yeah, you

Unknown Speaker 54:49 know who you are.

Unknown Speaker 54:51 But that's

Adam Walton 54:52 so funny. You can't say that name without it being funny. It is what it is man. It is what it is. You And and like you said, waking up and just being like, you get this opportunity to be like, I want to learn my lessons, I want to understand why I think the way I think I don't want to blindly accept that I think the way I think, because one of the coolest things about stepping into purpose and stepping into a higher dimension mentally and physically is that you understand that you're not having thoughts you're experiencing them. Much like the radio isn't creating music. It's tapping into a frequency and amplifying it. So, you know, all that self hate and self doubt you're receiving that from somewhere, step your frequency up and you'll start receiving different messages.

Brandon Handley 55:37 Yeah, it's a shared a lot. I put the book on my reach, where is it power versus force sent you the link actually, to his like, subsequent, he's guys got a lot of books, David, David R. Hawkins. I sent you that book on surrender, which is super awesome. But in that book, he's got like a map of consciousness. Right. And that's kind of one of his big, big pieces that he's contributed, I think, to to kind of where we are, and what you call like the, you know, ripping of the veil or whatever, right, the thinning of the veil, whatever you want to call it. I feel like he's contributed quite a bit to that. Because there's a there's a, there's a map of consciousness, right, here's where you are. And if you kind of, if you can leverage that and see where you are, you can kind of know where the next step is. Yeah. Which I think is really great. And, yeah, you know, if you're feeling hate and anger and frustration with your with the world, chances are you're feeling that with yourself. Right? And how do you want to address that?

Adam Walton 56:39 Yeah. And if the world is showing it to you, it's something you need to overcome, because it's all that's also your fault. Right, right. Now, I've also I've been on the hook so many times for victim shaming, is that the term I don't know what it is, were you like, you're like, like Dave Chappelle, He's, uh, he made the joke, Oh, she got, you know, assaulted. And he's like, wow, what was she wearing? You know, I don't, I don't, I don't put myself in that category. But I get I get the finger pointed a lot at me for that sort of stuff. Because again, you can misplace humor, you can do whatever you want, the world seems to want to live in its own narrative and drag everybody else in through theirs. Sure. And for me, it you know, it's it's, it's a certain it's a sensitive point, but it's a certain one, like, if I'm out drinking all the time, there's a there's a high likelihood that I'm gonna get punched in the face. It for history never happen. Or there's certainly a higher likelihood that I'm going to get punched in the face being out drinking, then if I'm in having intellectual conversations with individuals, for sure. If you love the idea of being out drinking, and if you want to get mad at me and said, Well, what you can't be drunk and have an intellectual conversation, man, you can do whatever you want, anywhere you want in life at any point, right. But what I will say is if you want more out of life, you're going to come into certain circumstances and situations that change the way you specifically do business. And once you get to the other side of how you've done that, you can look back and say, Man, I got punched in the face, because I was out drunk, running my mouth, you know? And that's it. Which means I'm the victim of assault. But it's because I was an idiot that it happened.

Brandon Handley 58:13 You're the one who created the situation.

Adam Walton 58:16 Yes. And that's not all of them. I'm going to put this in an Asterix Ladies and gentlemen, the world wants to you know, eat everybody alive right now. That's for sure. Every situation. It's not a blanket statement. That individual experience statement. Sure. No, no, no, I

Brandon Handley 58:29 get it. Right. Listen, that disclaimer, right?

Adam Walton 58:34 Exactly. I mean, there's millions of people listening this podcast right now. I know. Right?

Brandon Handley 58:38 Listen to listen, they're huge. They're huge. And you know, I don't want them I don't want an avalanche on Adam's House because he's a dick.

Adam Walton 58:46 I spiritual dick

Brandon Handley 58:50 telling you that you got punched in the face and it was totally your fault. It is right you got you put yourself there and then look, man, there's definitely situations where like, you know, people like well, this happened in the world and you're saying that was their fault? Like, come on, man. The take it with a grain of salt. You are where you And hey, that could be your soul contract.

Adam Walton 59:06 Right? Yeah, that could be your soul contract. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 59:09 we don't know, man that nobody knows. So for you for anybody to come up and say Yay, or nay. But I mean, you know, at least in our current level of understanding and experience to date,

Adam Walton 59:20 here's an extra step to that soul contract. It could be your soul contract to be murdered me making you the ultimate victim, right? And then but it's not. Your soul contract isn't for you or for the murderer. It's for the observers of everyone that witnessed you getting murdered. Right, and then you and the murderer, soul contracted into this to wake the world up. So the murderer has to commit a heinous crime of murdering and the victim has to create or has to be the victim of a murder. Both of them signed on to this so that you and me could witness this and change how we do life. That's how soul contracts can work as well. For sure, you know, there are some extensive quantity that go into every single experience. It's, it's mind bendingly beautiful,

Brandon Handley 1:00:06 not 100%. Right? It's life. Right. It's it's life. And I think that that in itself is beautiful. Just like you, sir are beautiful. So where can we send people to go hang out with Adam?

Adam Walton 1:00:21 There's a lot of changes going on. But you can you can check us out right now, at the mental mastery. alliance.com. All of our social links are there. Everything's there. We are just having fun with everything right now. Everything is tickety. Boo. So definitely come give us a check out if you like social media, if you don't like the computer, that's cool, too. We're everywhere. We have our own podcast, all of its linked back to the webpage. So in the liner notes of this episode of my webpage was there then everybody would get to see what we're all up to. And there's a ton of stuff going on. So we encourage you all to pop by. And if you don't want to do that, amen. Cool to

Brandon Handley 1:00:58 Adam, thanks for stopping on today. I

Unknown Speaker 1:01:00 always enjoy the conversation, brother. Absolutely my friend. Great time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Connect with Mike today! https://mikeiamele.com/

Mike Iamele is a writer, life purpose expert, and brand strategist. With his proprietary Sacred Branding® system, he's helped hundreds of people to connect the dots between their lived experiences to find the common threads that explain their subconscious motivations, unique genius, and life purpose. People use this work for all kinds of things — from branding and building a business, to exploring identity and sexuality, to finding their artistic voice, to even re-discovering themselves after a life-altering event, like divorce or retirement. Mike's also the author of Enough Already: Create Success on Your Own Terms (Conari Press 2015). He's shared his provocative and vulnerable take on life in dozens of magazines, podcasts, and online publications, including a personal interview with NPR about his viral story on rethinking sexuality in his first same-sex relationship. Prior to Sacred Branding®, at only 22 years old, Mike co-founded Torch Communications, a boutique public relations firm, specializing in healthcare and disruptive technology. He currently lives in Somerville, MA, with his husband and two adorable dogs.

Brandon Handley 0:00 4321 Hey, their spiritual dove is Brandon Handley. And I am on with Mike Iaconelli who is a writer, life purpose expert and brand strategist. With his proprietary sacred branding system, he's helped hundreds of people to connect the dots between their lived experiences to find the common threads explained their subconscious motivations, unique genius and life purpose. People use this word for all kinds of things, from branding and building to business to exploring identity and sexuality to finding their artistic voice to even rediscovering themselves after a life altering event like divorce or retirement. Mike is also the author of enough already create success on your own terms. He shared his provocative and vulnerable take on life in dozens of magazines, podcasts and online publications, including a personal interview with NPR about his viral story on rethinking sexuality in his first first same sex relationship prior to sacred branding relationship prior Okay, sorry. Prior to sacred branding, at only 22 years old, Mike co founded torch communications, a boutique public relations firm specializing in health care and disruptive technology. I'm not gonna tell you where we live. They can find that on their own. But here's the deal, Mike, first, first of all, just while I'm going through this, thank you so much for joining me today.

Mike Iamele 1:24 Yeah, thanks, Brandon. This is awesome. I'm glad to be here.

Brandon Handley 1:26 Awesome. So I'm reading this. It's funny, though, because I was reading this earlier. And when I read it in his first same sex relationship, so like, I mean, multiples or, like, I mean, you What happened? There was

Mike Iamele 1:41 a great question. Let's dive right in. Um, you know, I previously had no conscious knowledge, no interest in men. To my knowledge, I've only dated women. And it was a time where I actually woke up one day vomiting blood. And that didn't stop for a few months, I was really, really sick. I was going from doctor to doctor trying to figure out what was wrong with me. And my roommate at the time was a friend of mine, we actually two roommates, but one of them was a friend of mine who was in the healthcare profession. And so he kind of became my caretaker, I couldn't drive myself to these appointments. You know, he really took care of me. And after about two months, I felt like I felt something. It wasn't sexual. It didn't even feel romantic. It just felt like something was a little different. And I think if it were any other time in my life, I probably wouldn't have acted on it. But I thought I was going to die. And so there I was kind of saying like, Well, you know, and I felt really weird. I said, Hey, I don't know what this is. I don't know if this is anything. But I kind of have these feelings. And he reciprocated he felt something. He didn't know what he also had never dated a man. And that led us on a year and a half, two year journey of exploring what that is. We are married today. We've been together for over nine years. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Brandon Handley 2:59 How cool is that? How cool is that? So that's usually not my first question. But when I was reading through that, I'm like, what is what is in here? Right? So here's my first question is, hey, look, you know, we're both in the spiritual realm, we both we're both in this space where the universe talks to us, right? We're conduits for some type of energy, right? In these body shades, forms, minds, whatever the hell right? So given that, when we're when we're having a conversation, people that are tuning in listening to podcasts are tuned into something that only you can deliver, right, at this time, you know, sources delivering what message to them through you right now.

Mike Iamele 3:38 So what's the message I'm delivering? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 3:40 What's the what's the message, the sources sources pulling through right now,

Mike Iamele 3:44 you know, the message is that it's ironic because it's exactly what you're talking about, that every single one of us has a unique way, energy flows, unique sensitivities, unique purpose. And the thing is, I get really fired up about this, because the way we talk about purpose is toxic. And it really induces shame. And the reason for that is we talk about purpose, like it is achievable and aspirational. So we'll say things like, Oh, my purpose is to be a life coach. My purpose is to write a book, my purpose is to get married. And that's awesome. But here's the thing, if you can achieve it, that means you can also fail it. And that doesn't make sense, like how you fail your purpose. And more than that, if you can achieve it, it implies you didn't have it at a certain point. So did we just not have a purpose as babies like that doesn't make any sense whatsoever? Sure. And so I talk about purpose, a lot more like sensitivities. And here's the thing even as a baby before I learned one word I was sensitive to some things. Some babies are sensitive to music, and they can probably hear notes that I can't hear. Some babies are sensitive to certain colors. Some babies are sensitive to freedom. And if you're sensitive to freedom, you're probably going to feel trapped a lot more easily than I am. You're probably going to look for opportunities to feel free all the time and you're probably gonna create your best work when you do feel free, right know that sense? activity is going to start to color your entire experience of life. Every moment of your life, every trauma you have, every job you have, every relationship you have, is going to be either expressing or suppressing that to some degree. We're going exactly through that sensitivity. So we're sensitive. That's how we experience life. We see taste, touch, smell life, there are senses, right? That's what purpose is. Now, if I've got a container that can totally hold my purpose, it's like talking to my best friend. And time just flies by and genius just feels out of me. And I'm tapped into that unique thing coming through me right through my senses. Yeah. And then we have those other conversations, were kind of like, Am I saying the right thing? Am I doing the right thing, am I and we're on that level of technical. And then when we say if we're on the level of technical, we have no idea what the essence is, we're not actually tapped into essence, we're just trying to kind of mold this awkward container. But when I know I have boiling hot tea, I'm not going to put that in plastic, I'm not going to put that in a cup with a handle, I'm going to choose the right container. The second that, you know, essence, everything starts flowing. And that's why whether we're talking about relationships, whether we're talking about spirituality, trauma, healing, you've always no moment of your life has been wasted. You everything has a purpose. Obviously, the word purpose means why. But we have containers that can hold that purpose and containers that can't. And my interest in life is just knowing who we are removing any shame and then finding containers that can actually hold us.

Brandon Handley 6:29 Now. I love that, right. There's a there's a lot in there. And I think that that's a I think it's a great message. One of the one of the things that I wanted to share to what you talked about is you're going through your branding system, right, and how that can help you explore, explore your spirituality. And one of the things that I mentioned to you right before we got started here was, you know, more people reached out to me on on spiritual dope than a couple other podcasts. But what I did also nothing that I recognized and some of my other podcasts, the people that did reach out to me, my first one was fatherhood for the rest of us. And I had like this kind of weird dad snare, everybody's got a weird dad snare and always got to the you know, whatever. But like, he was like, he heroin overdose died, stuff like that, right? Like, about 30 40% of people I talked to. That's similar story, right? So you would track kind of who you are. I'm not saying, um, you. But you track like, like mines, right? So the people that are reaching out to me are also experiencing kind of what you're sharing that this your sacred branding system, right? And recognizing that marketing, isn't this the skeezy thing? Right? There can be some goodness that comes out of going through understanding what is your branding? What is right, so let's talk a little bit about your sacred branding system so that people can kind of understand it from that perspective.

Mike Iamele 7:54 Yeah. Well, let me tell you how it got started. Because it is, you know, everything looks glamorous, or retrospect. But I promise you, it is not. So, you know, I was at this moment where I was really sick, like I mentioned before, and I was kind of sort of navigating this relationship with my roommate. And I went around from healer to healer. You know, I wasn't into alternative healing at the time, but I was really desperate. And so I started going to reflexology, and Reiki and acupuncture and you know, energy healing, you name it, I was there. And one healer said to me, you know, can I pull a card for you? Okay, that's what you want to do. And she pulled a card, and she said, Oh, my God, you are going through a shamanic healing crisis. And the second that you start to realize, and change your path and find new containers, everything will change, you will magically get better, and it's gonna change your life. So I took it with a grain of salt at the time, but I bought a few books that she had mentioned. And I went on my way. And through this process of discovering, I started realizing this new spiritual part of myself. And so this is happening simultaneously. I actually owned a PR agency. So as you mentioned, I worked in public relations and health care reform. And I never thought that would be fair job. I loved that job. I mean, I liked it. I should say it was good, but it wasn't fully fully right container. But it was good enough. And so this crazy thing happened, where I lost my passport, the day before my family was going to Aruba for New Year's, we always go for New Year's, my passport disappeared. I keep it locked in a safe wasn't there. So I drove back and forth to my parents house to my house. Like I didn't sleep that night. I was just driving. They were an hour for me, and could not find my passport. They went to Aruba. The next day. I was stuck at home. And so I you know, said to my partners, listen, guys, why don't I take off next this next week? instead? I'll work this week instead of being on vacation. And then I'll go Ruby late and meet my family there. And kind of uncharacteristically, they had some issue with us. And so I thought, all right, well, I will work but I'll work from Aruba. I'm going to Aruba and they said well, we don't know if You're really serious about this company. And I was like, You know what, maybe I'm not. And so I went to Aruba. I came back, and it was like someone else was speaking for me. I just said, I'll give you a year's notice, we're gonna restructure, and I'm leaving. So now here I am sitting there and thinking, what the hell am I going to do with my life, like, I don't have a plan, you know, I can sell my shares. I have a little bit of money, but I don't have a plan. So I went to herbalism school, I went to nutrition school, I literally went to two schools full time that year, while working while taking spiritual classes, while exploring this relationship. It was the worst year of my life. But I finished it. And I thought, well, I don't know what to do. So I decided that I was going to be the health and wellness coach for the Boston entrepreneurs, because I knew them all. Why not? Like I was an herbalist. I was a health coach, I can do this. And it was okay. I wasn't making a ton of money, and I really love it. And so I started writing a blog. And this blog got decently popular. And someone REACHED OUT out of the blue and offered me a book deal. And I thought, Oh, this isn't this is my purpose. I've always meant to be a writer, I'm going to do this book deal. So I write this book, I go on a book tour. And I hope not everybody's listening to this part. I didn't love it. It wasn't great. still buy my book. It's good. But I did not like just being an author and doing the book tour things, a lot of pressure. I didn't feel supported. And so I thought, well, crap, I'm wasting my time. I'm wasting life. How do I not know my purpose? Now I've gone through the crisis. I've done all the things that every book tells me to do. I've one on every life purpose webinar, every life purpose training, I don't know my purpose. So I go back to the drawing board. And I said, All right, what am I good at? What does the world need? And I've had circled that middle ground. Oh, it is so obvious. How did I not see it? I meant to create a blogging course. But this blogging course, is just going to be a blogging course, it's going to be deep, it's going to be spiritual, it's gonna help people find their voice. And it's gonna help them get booked deals and all this great stuff, right? So I create this course. And of course, you know, you got to go pro. So I put everything into this, like, I've got the lighting kit and the nice mic, and the Facebook ads, and the web designer and the business partner and all that stuff and put it out to the world. And five people bought it. The loss was extraordinary. I mean, that was the last of my savings, I was done. So I was mortified. I knew, I guess I will ask my partners to take me back after a year, who knows what's going to happen? I still don't know my purpose, after, you know, decades of trying, but really a year just focused on that I still can't figure it out. I'm a failure. And so I decided to host a failure celebration, right? Because at least you know, maybe I can flip the script and celebrate Well, maybe something good came from this year. And I went into a Facebook group I was a part of. And I said, I'm happy to, you know, do some branding for you. And some work that I came up with way back in PR. It's a simple system we use to help CEOs kind of think about their messaging in a very concrete simple way so that they can make sales decisions and messaging and interview talking points and press releases and all this stuff. Very simple. And so I went in there, and I offered it to these people. But these weren't the, you know, tech entrepreneurs and healthcare politicians I was used to. These were life coaches, and artists and healers and all types of cool people. And every single one of them said to me, Mike, you didn't just tell me my brand. You told me my life purpose. It's like, wait, wait a minute. They're like, What are you trying to say? And so I had to go back to the drawing board and figure out what am I actually doing here? What's happening that's telling these people claiming that they know their purpose in a way that's never been articulated before. And so I did the process for myself. And I discovered six words. And these sorts of six words are aligned, zany, free, unmistakable, successful, and vulnerable. And the second I saw these words, every moment of trauma in my life starts to make sense, because I started to feel every time the opposite of those when I was protected. When I felt like a failure, these articulated better than anything, the biggest trauma of my life, I started to look at what felt good about it my PR job, but what didn't, what made sense in writing, but what didn't. And as I started to do that, simultaneously, people started asking me, what do you call this? And I said, it's branding, but I guess it's sacred, I don't know, sacred branding. laughs That word on there. They start telling their friends and I was open for business. And I never went back to PR, which I thought I would the next day never did and that was six or seven years ago. Now. I

Brandon Handley 14:29 think. That's great. That's great. And I think that, you know, look, you you just stepped into kind of like your fear, right? And and you you surrendered a little bit, right? You just you just said you know what, this is what I got. I'm having this conversation. I'm gonna have the failure party, people are gonna step up. Do you happen to be in this group, like you said, of like artists and you know, these kind of spiritual people and you're helping them find their purpose, and if I recall correctly, you're like, I didn't even know what mine was. All right. Hold on a second. Yeah, I did what? Hold on a second. Wait, I'm gonna come back. I'm watching Oh, this works because now I'm gonna work. It's like kinds of hypnosis on yourself though, right? Like, all right.

Mike Iamele 15:11 So the irony about it is like, if we look at those words successful, I was hosting a failure celebration to make success, right, I was being super vulnerable, I was aligning with my type of people, like, when we start to unpack what that means, well, da, this was gonna be a moment of success for me. And that's why I always call this you know, a reliable, predictable formula for success and fulfillment that works in any situation without fail. It doesn't just work in job because it's kind of To me, it's like shooting darts, like most of us live life where we're shooting darts in the dark, we kind of sometimes stumble upon success, and we that feels good. But even if we have something successful in our lives, we don't actually know what made us successful. So we're an artist who might say, well, was it the medium I was using? Was I feeling inspired? Did I have a lot of spaciousness that day? Or if we're an entrepreneur, we think, well, was it the image? Was it the coffee was not asked these questions? Sure. relationships, same thing. What I often think is, when we do this work, what we're doing is we're mapping our experiences, you know, to do sacred branding, we're mapping out traumas, we're mapping our highest access points, we're starting to notice a pattern and boiling that pattern down. And it's kind of like flipping on the lights, doesn't mean I'm gonna hit the bullseye every time, but I know what I'm doing. I can practice, I can say, Alright, I know I need to be vulnerable here. It's really awkward for me, but I'm gonna keep practicing what that looks like in relationship until I can hone that sensitivity.

Brandon Handley 16:32 Right. Right now. That's fair. That's fair. The one of the things that I see out there is people trying to be vulnerable, but really, they're just vomiting, like, or, you know, just just doesn't come off as genuine. So how can you be authentically vulnerable on purpose?

Mike Iamele 16:52 It's a great question. You know, I think that I think that there's a difference between maybe intentional and strategic care. I think that this, you know, I guess the bottom line is, what is the reason that we're being vulnerable? And that's what I'm really interested in, when we go down to the brand energy level, is it about connection? Is it about intimacy? Is it about, you know, feeling aligned with somebody? Is it about being seen? Is it about feeling abundance, like, there's a reason that we're doing it in the first place. And if we're not really tapped into that we're kind of deceiving ourselves, we're basically like, I want to make a lot of money. And so I'm being vulnerable to make a lot of money. But I'm not actually conscious of that I'm actually owning that the shadow. So it starts to come across as inauthentic. But I think when we really know who we are, and what kind of owning and claiming that, you know, I often say you don't have to assert what's claimed, right? If I'm asserting something, I haven't fully claimed it. So if I have to be like, Oh, I am super masculine. That's not something I've planned. Oh, I'm super vulnerable. That's not something I've claimed, right. When I've claimed it, it's just internalized, and then I kind of exude it. And I think that's what I want for every person to be able to exude the authentic flow of who you actually are. Right?

Brandon Handley 18:01 I mean, that kind of goes back to like your beginning, right, you know, how can that person find out who they truly are? Right? And then helping them to figure out how to truly express that. Is that you know, I mean, that's kind of that's kind of, that's the business that you're in? Yeah, that's

Mike Iamele 18:16 right there. you boil it down. Absolutely. Yeah. No,

Brandon Handley 18:18 I love it. You know, me. And it's funny the story that you're telling, too, because it's exactly what happened to me, right? My first podcast was like, I gotta I gotta hit these notes. I got to do these things. I want to do it for money. Like, I didn't really want to do it for money. But I was doing it for money. I was like, yeah. And then and then like, I was, like, you know, switched out did another one. And that podcast was wasn't in straight alignment with who I was right? Like this. I was like, it's almost there. I've almost gotten it, right. And then this one is like, is better? Right? This one? I'm like, I'm almost there. Again, like so again, like, and and? I'm sure, right. I mean, would you talk to kind of how the universe opens up once you find your alignment? Like, what's that look like? For you?

Mike Iamele 19:02 Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think, you know, it depends what language we're comfortable using, whether we want to call it the universe, whether we want to say we're just putting ourselves in the place of opportunities, and the right thing comes.

Brandon Handley 19:10 I think that that's great, too, right? Because I think that a big a big challenge for the people that are like, you know, the spiritual ilk, or are super artsy, they're not going to be as comfortable with the business language, right? And that's, and that's why they're open to this other. Let's open up to the universe. Let's have a vision board, let's, let's do these things because they are these are goals, these are planning, these are all those other things, but it's in a language that they their brain, and their subconscious will not filter out, like, oh, we're gonna do it like this. That's great, man. My energy is in alignment. Let's do it. Right. Whereas like, if you're like, let's let's come up with a plan. I'm not much of a planner. I don't I don't write hate plans.

Mike Iamele 19:56 Well, I think the thing is, you know, we all have our own Attachment towards our own language, our own connotation. And that's why as much as I think things like, you know, MBTI or enneagram, with these systems are really awesome. I'm a big fan of, you know, speaking to our purpose in our own language through how we associate with words. And that's why you know, I don't really care. I tell people, if your words of Sally Bob and Jim awesome, if that means something to you, you go for it. And so my job is just to help them map how they use language and begin to boil that down to overarching themes. And it's a really cool process. So we can

Brandon Handley 20:32 do. I do I do. Okay,

Mike Iamele 20:37 so, do you want to be a guinea pig? Or do you just want me to speak to your guinea pig. So this is gonna be my super super, like, dumbed down shoddy way of doing it. But if anyone wants to reveal a little bit more real, you can just go to Mike iaconelli.com slash map, it's free. It's 36 minutes, and you're gonna get a worksheet. So it's super cool. But let's play now for 10 minutes. Okay, so Brandon, can you take a moment to close your eyes, and I want you to think about three jobs that you have had in your life. So just three jobs could be anything, it could be back in high school, you were, you know, a cashier, it could be a current job, it could be podcasting, just anything that you want. And when you get your mind in those three jobs, I want you to pick one of them and tell me what it is.

Brandon Handley 21:32 So, you know, once upon a time like that to my laptop, my eyes are not to show.

Unknown Speaker 21:37 Yeah, I know what's happening.

Brandon Handley 21:40 You know, so once upon a time, I mean, this is going back 20 years, like I used to do two bunches like the raves right the nighttime parties, but like I do the promoting for them, right? Or like help hosts are like pull, pull, pull, pull the gathers together, right? I mean, so awesome. So you know, getting people together and and seeing them having a great night. I mean, that that was it. Right?

Mike Iamele 22:01 So you're already getting ahead of the game. You're so good here. So I want you to tell me, what are three things that you either made people feel or you gave to people? And so my example is you might make people like you said feel happy or fun or connected, or safe? Or maybe you made them feel like energized and manic. Like what were three things? Yeah, look, I

Brandon Handley 22:21 mean, people feel a you know, look, if you're going if you're if you're on just as parties, like you get like, that's an experience, right? One time experience, probably never gonna happen again. And it's a life experience.

Mike Iamele 22:34 All right. experiential. We've got that 100%

Brandon Handley 22:38 straight bliss, man, right, dancing out dancing all night long. Right. You know, they stop dropping, I don't know, whatever spelling.

Mike Iamele 22:46 So it's experiential. It's bliss. Is there anything else that you wanted to make people feel? I

Brandon Handley 22:50 mean, is active, right? It's engagement.

Mike Iamele 22:52 Perfect. Perfect. This is great. So now pick a second job. And I want you to tell me a little bit about that job and then do the same thing.

Brandon Handley 23:00 The podcasting, right podcasting, the connections, like you can't, it opens so many doors, right? Like, I mean, it's a straight up opens. Like I can call I can talk to anybody, right? If there's, I literally just interviewed one of my favorite authors a week or so ago. Sreekumar Rao, right? I have a podcast, would you like to be on it? Right? This is my space. This is what I do. And I think you'd be a great fit, right? I mean, so connections and then being able to connect, like you to the audience, right. So So Mike, I'm always on I'm like, I don't just like Mike, you're gonna like Mike and here's why and, and just listen to him. Like, I don't have to tell you, you're gonna be able to decide for yourself. Right? So sharing those connections. And what's left, I mean, it's just, it's just fun. Because you get to you get to this, this is an amplifier. Right? The microphone is an amplifier, I get to share my message with the entire world. And if anybody is any, like stratosphere, right? This is like radio waves. It goes all awake, universal man. So communicating my story to everybody that

Mike Iamele 24:09 I love that got universal. It's amplifying. It's fun. It's connecting. Awesome. Got some great language. All right, one more. So the last job Tell me about it and tell me three things that you wanted people to feel from it. And,

Brandon Handley 24:25 I mean, I think bartending was probably just so much fun. And again, like it's just always about other people connecting with other people being mean that kind of, I guess, you know, and even in like with the podcast, kind of being that that hub, right, that that that kind of generates all that energy to make it all happen.

Mike Iamele 24:46 Mm hmm. I love that. I love that. Okay, we've got some good good mapping going on already. But now I want you to take a moment Brandon and close your eyes again. And I want you to think of a really challenging moment. It could be frustrating. It could be And successful, it could even be traumatic, although we don't want to go into any trauma that feels traumatic to think about right now. But anything that feels like this was a really tough moment in my life. And I want you, you don't have to tell me what it is, if you don't want that, I want you to tell me three things you felt in that moment.

Brandon Handley 25:18 So I think I think I've talked about it before, but like, there was a point when I was doing like my fatherhood for the rest of this podcast. And then I got offered an amazing job, right, like a great salary. And I was like, Well, I have to stop focusing so much on this father for the rest of us thing, right, not attached my identity that that I and I realized I was like, Oh, my God, I attached my identity that same time realize that I was willing to kind of throw that away for a bunch of money. So I was kind of battling that. Right. So that was it. That was conflicted. Right. And, and it kind of, it tore me apart in a way that I wasn't expecting, you know. At the same time, it also made me realize how much I attached my identity to what it is that I do.

Mike Iamele 26:04 Yeah, that's, thank you for saying I'm gonna try to remember that because it's something really beautiful. We'll talk about right after this process. But um, so what do you what did you feel? I know you say conflicted, but what do I mean? Did you feel like you were like, disgusted at yourself or wanting the money? Did you feel angry? Did you feel frustrated? Did you feel blocked or trapped? Like, give me a little bit longer? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 26:25 I mean, I could probably go with like a little bit of of trapped or locked, right? I mean, look, I'm, I'm a family man, when you're looking for, you know, make given stability to children and my wife and, you know, trying to give them that life. Give them you know, the the white picket fence and all this stuff, right. We've been trained very well for this

Mike Iamele 26:43 shot. Yeah, absolutely.

Brandon Handley 26:45 Yeah. So I mean, that's definitely it was, I think, traps kind of a harsh word. But I definitely felt like you know, I had to do that thing, because that's what was expected. Right.

Mike Iamele 26:56 So we're better word be obligated. obligated. Good. Okay, that's good. Okay, cool. So what, then if you felt conflicted, you felt obligated? What would you have wanted to feel ideal world if you could just magically have the perfect situation? What would you have wanted to feel in that situation? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 27:12 I mean, it should be easy, right? ease is what you know, ease, there should be no tension if you're doing the thing that you're in alignment in life.

Mike Iamele 27:21 Right. Right. So just flow II happening, okay. And maybe agency rights, not obligation, you're choosing it, you're just kind of Right, right. I

Brandon Handley 27:30 mean, I'm taking, you know, look like if you just take money out of the whole thing, like in this situation, like, Can you just go do what you want without money? Right, then then it's easier, right? Like, like, maybe

Mike Iamele 27:41 you're passionate, right? Because you know what?

Brandon Handley 27:45 I'm a 5050 on the word passion. Okay. I don't like to flame out on something, right? Because, like you like, you know, what is it? Is it better? What is it better to burn out? Definitely anyways, man, I don't want to I don't want to use it. I don't. And it's a trigger word, obviously, for me, right? You know, being passionate about something because I want I want to follow it through again, with ease, like, You figure if you're passionate about something, it's burning, all that energy is burning up quickly. Right. And, and it has the opportunity to dissipate, but at the same time, it could you know, be the igniter of the fire. But that's where I'm at with that.

Mike Iamele 28:21 I'm just gonna call it one thing. So I think it's really interesting here. First of all, you know, anytime we have a triggering word, it's where we have energy, right? So it doesn't mean that this is a word that we're interested in using. But what it means that there's something in this concept that feels interesting. And I think what's really fascinating for me, is we've talked about a lot of words, the very igniting very, very before we talked about amplifying and energizing for sure, excited, but we want something sustainable. So we just learned, okay for you. It's got to be a sustainable version of that. That's great, because all we're doing is mapping how your mind works right now. Right? All right. Now, last thing, close your eyes one more time. And I want you to think of the happiest day of your life, or one of the happiest moments that comes up. And I want you You can tell me about if you want, but I want you to tell me three things you felt in that moment.

Brandon Handley 29:09 So I mean, I have to say it was probably when my first son was born. Right? Um, man is just, there's just nothing. Nothing really compares to that. Right. I'm one of those reasons is, is you know, I never thought I was going to be a dad, right? I didn't have like a good dad experience. And so for this opportunity to just kind of present itself. I was like, this is awesome, right? I get to be a dad. I was like, I'm not gonna suck at this. Like, that was like the one thing I knew I wasn't gonna suck at. Right. So I was happy to take that on and to, you know, be able to have that role in my life, you know?

Mike Iamele 29:48 So, you know, and that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. So I know you felt you know, happy. What else would you say? What did you feel in that moment?

Brandon Handley 29:57 I mean, touched right. Like that's like, you know, we It's probably you know, if I, if I'm looking back, you know, connecting the dots backwards, I'm sure that I've been touched by source like several times, but like it was one of those recognizable times you just like literally feel blessed. Right? And I'm not I'm not I'm not a Jesus guy. I'm not a god and by but like, you know, you feel blessed you feel touched in that moment. So that,

Mike Iamele 30:23 yes, beautiful, and I'm getting the sense that you can correct me from your I'm wrong here. But that there's a sense of alignment. Like it almost feels like this was meant to be or kinda Yeah,

Brandon Handley 30:32 look, I mean, it's just there's no other way, right? I've got a friend of mine who's up in Boston as well, you guys just should connect. He gave me the acronym Tina, right? There is no alternative.

Mike Iamele 30:43 Yeah. Oh, this is beautiful. All right. All right. So you're I only picked these moments because these are emotionally charged. And we're gonna get you know, squeezed the most juice out of the emotionally charged moments. For everybody listening, you know, if you go check out that webinar, Mike on mlb.com slash map, it's a little bit more in depth, but I'm trying to keep it brief for everyone here. So one thing we've seen is we've seen a huge theme across your life of this feeling, you know, wanting to make people want yourself feeling energized in the flow, a sense of ease, you know, a sense of being touched or blessed by things, connecting and Amplifying Voices, whether you're, you know, club promoting, you're amplifying a message or energize people amplifying the voices. When you're doing that with podcasting, for sure you're doing that, you know, I'm sure that these are, you know, lessons that you want to send your kids or your child, so you know, helping to energize them helping to amplify their voice making them feel they have a strong voice, and they matter. These are themes that I've gone through your life, I'm gonna guess that if you look back to some of those traumatic moments of your life, you might feel there were points where you didn't feel like your voice could be spread out far and wide, or you didn't feel energized,

Brandon Handley 31:51 suppressed, for sure,

Mike Iamele 31:53 exactly. And so we're gonna see those shadows, the exact opposite to what we talked about, they're gonna start to, you know, to articulate some of the darkest moments of your life. And now we can start, let's say, all right, and I have with my best friends, yeah, I feel this. I feel like my voice matters. I can speak up, I feel energized, I feel excited this ease this flow. When I talk to these, you know, really awkward people and people I don't really like I don't feel those things. It's

Brandon Handley 32:15 like a blanket, right? I mean.

Mike Iamele 32:18 So what we're doing here is we're just mapping your sensitivities, we're understanding and you can go back and use this work for past trauma. You can use it for healing, you can use it for business building, because now we know all right, you do really well, when you have guests on who are energizing and exciting and alive. You love connecting with people, you love Amplifying Voices of people who matter to you. So you need to make sure that you've got guests on that you really believe in their mission, and you're excited about it, and they want to help amplify your podcast too. And now all of a sudden, start changing the business decisions you make and how you show up. And you asked me before you know about vulnerability and authenticity. For me, if I mean for you, it's really going to be about showing up with energy and that voice and giving the message because that's what you do when you're most authentic. And I just think I mean, this is my shoddy way of doing it with you today. But I think it's so beautiful when we know that because again, it's like we turn on the lights. And now we can practice hitting that Bullseye doesn't mean we're gonna hit every time, right? We know how now,

Brandon Handley 33:13 right? So now that was awesome, man, I really enjoyed I enjoyed that. And and you know, that practice would be built into your branding, right? So a lot of a lot of times I think that people will be like, Hey, I don't I don't know, my art type is right. Or I don't know what my you know, I don't know what my niches I don't know, I hate the word niche. I don't do niches right. Like and so, or, you know, you know, I don't want what's the you know, avatars are dumb man, you know, so. So, this this practice sounds like it, it kind of can substitute for some of those marketing pieces, right? Or branding pieces without robbing the the non marketer guy or girl wrong, right?

Mike Iamele 33:57 Absolutely. Well, I think one thing you said that was really interesting is you talked about how so much of your identity was in what you did. And then podcasting and it's really hard to let go of. And I don't think that that is abnormal. You know, a lot of us we do one of two things, the big containers in our lives, our relationships, or jobs, right? Those are the two containers where we're talking about life purpose, we're probably talking about one of those two things. And the thing is, those are just containers for those energies to flow that we just talked about. So is your healing. So is your morning routine. So is the way you get dressed. So is the way you decorate your house. So is the way you do yard work, or your friendships like these are all just different containers. And when we are so attached to a container, it means we don't really know what the essence is, because we don't think we can get that same essence somewhere else, right? When we know that essence. It's like, oh, that job went away. Now how can I make my new job? You know, be connecting and energizing and amplifying all these things? And then we're going to start to look at like, Alright, where am I gonna fight for my voice in this job? Where am I gonna win? What am I not willing? To settle on, and what am I willing to settle on? And that's really important to me. Because when it comes to marketing, you know, a lot of people think it's something really different and hard and complex. And the truth is, it's just another container. I had no plan for this conversation. And you know, sure one of my energies is vulnerable. So I show up and I share whatever it feels called. And I'm zany, and I'm loud. And I like to be crazy and play a little bit. And that is part of how my energy flows. I don't know, what do you call this marketing right now? Maybe, maybe not. But it's just me being myself. Sure. So is working with people and so is, you know, getting to teach live and hanging out with my husband and the way I dress? Right? Well, I mean,

Brandon Handley 35:40 not for nothing, right? Like, so I mean, what's your, your, your, your kind of like zona genius, or, you know, whatever you want to call it is, is, is being able to help somebody get clarity on themselves? Right.

Unknown Speaker 35:50 Yeah.

Brandon Handley 35:52 Right. Right. Right. And that's a real challenge. I think that for an individual to go through I think, I think, and this has been my experience, right? I think it's a real challenge for a lot of people who would like to get into podcasts and YouTube and whatever, you know, the the, is there a name for like, what's happening like now like, in in the kind of industry, it's not like just social marketing, but maybe it is right. But the deal is to try and run at it alone can be very frustrating, and especially when they see how easy it is for Mike. Right.

Mike Iamele 36:27 Thank you for saying that. Because I love to, you know, share all my vulnerabilities. Believe me, everything I said earlier, looks graceful in retrospect, it's not it's never retro, you know, graceful in the moment. And I think the thing is, you know, we do this work, because this system can run independently of me, like, you can go check out that webinar, you can go, you know, sign up for our course, later on, like, eight works, because everybody thinks they're all over the place. Everybody thinks, oh, Mike, but my jobs they don't even make sense. They're not remotely similar. You don't know. I can tell you that's true of me. Right? I work in health care form. And then I'm, you know, this herbalist, and then I'm like the spiritual teacher, I don't know what the heck I was doing. But you know what, it all boils down to connecting dots. Here's the thing. I literally align vulnerabilities and people's zaniness and idiosyncrasies to help to free them from the stories and make them successful and understand that unmistakable ality that my energies told me that they told me what I do, and everyone else's do your lived experience has the blueprint for success, the blueprint for fulfillment, because you have been successful somewhere in life. Yes, that's all Yeah, we can map Why then we start to understand your formula. That's not something exclusive to me. I know people listen, I said, screw you, guy. Like you don't know what I've been through. That's not I can promise you that because I thought I was the most fucked up of all.

Brandon Handley 37:47 Well, and I think that you bring up a good point there too, once you kind of understand the pattern, right? Once you once you understand how you can connect one or two dots, like you can connect the third. Yeah, fourth, or fifth, right? So going through the work, right, what would you say that means to you?

Mike Iamele 38:09 It's a bold question. So you know, the work can mean many things. So if we're talking specifically about sacred branding, which for me, it's all the same, like the work spiritual work for me is safer branding, because it went about the person going through it like, like, so if somebody's going through sacred branding with you, and they have to do the work.

Brandon Handley 38:27 Right. What does that mean? So

Mike Iamele 38:29 it means, you know, basically committing to your energies, here's the thing that will happen. Inevitably, almost every person who's done my work, will after a year or two years, say, oh, Mike, I went through a monumental shift in my life, I got to redo it, my energies are wrong, I got to redo it. And what's happening there is not that their energy is wrong, because anyone we've done this with wife, kids, anyone over the age of 13, their vocabulary and their conceptualization of language isn't changing enough for their energies to change. What's happening is their understanding of those energies is changing. And so what it's asking for is intimacy. intimacy is when we commit to something and we learn more about it, it's a lot easier to just run away and try to change say, this is

Brandon Handley 39:11 one more time and intimacy is what

Mike Iamele 39:13 Yeah, when we commit to something and learn more about it and ourselves and when we're deepening right? If we commit to a relationship, a relationship is gonna challenge us of course, we have to learn about ourselves, we have to learn about our partner through that relationship. But if we every time we get challenged, run away, that's not intimacy. That's not commitment. So what doing the work is is actually committing saying, alright, what can this interview this moment right now teach me about aligned, zany, free, unmistakable every fight I have every you know, challenge my life is to ask myself, what can I learn right now about success? What don't I know about it? And it starts teaching me more about myself. And then we start doing deconditioning because here's the thing we've got a lot of toxic conditioning in our society, both some we've talked about on this podcast, but also some we haven't. And that's not a That's not something we're born with. We were born was

Brandon Handley 40:02 like, What? Yeah, what's one or two?

Mike Iamele 40:04 I'm talking about misogyny and racism and homophobia. I'm talking about, you know, beliefs about making money and spirituality. I mean, there's a lot of conditioning out there. And so when we we weren't born with that we were born sensitivities. So we weren't born with conditioning.

Brandon Handley 40:19 What's the deconditioning? Well,

Mike Iamele 40:20 what I'm saying is that if we to know what we aren't, we have to know what we are. And when we know those brand answers, I used to ask myself, what about this moment isn't actually vulnerable or unmistakable? What's wrong here? What do I believe that's not actually that, and when I can anchor it to something, I can pull out what isn't that it starts I mean, we do this at the higher levels of the work, but it starts to become a lot easier to say, Hey, you know what, I'm ready to let go of that belief. Because actually, I can see my truth, and I can feel it. And you know, I it's a sensitivity so I can literally feel it in my body, it's not just a thought I have in my mind, it's something that I can feel and you know, at higher levels, we start thinking about, okay, let me feel what successful feels like my body. Now, let me feel unsuccessful. And so when I walk into a room, and my stomach tightens, immediately, I know I feel unsuccessful, I'm gonna say no to that opportunity, it starts becoming intuitive because your body, it's your senses, right? Your taste, touch smell, it can tell you these things, your thoughts, your conditioning can't do that, because it's not really who you are. So the more we start tuning into who we are, we can actually trust our intuition more, we can trust our bodies more. And that's why we get better at hitting that bull's eye, right? Because now we know the opportunities that will lead us to success, you know, the flow with the universe. And, you know,

Brandon Handley 41:32 you tell me, tell me about tuning into your intuition, right? And how, how do you begin to trust that intuition, right? It's funny, because guys, anybody's listening to podcast knows that. Nine times out of 10, I'll jack up a name. and nine times out of 10. I know, I should have asked before we got going. And what's funny is that, before we got going on the podcast, they like followed his intuition. You know, also something that maybe it not only you know, is has he had the experience of people butchering his last name, but he knew, connected like an intuition to me and said, Hey, do you need to know how to pronounce my last name? Sure. Right. So how do you, you know, how, how do you begin to trust your intuition? And not just in a negative sense, right? Because a lot of people are like, Oh, I shouldn't do this. And and they follow that to a fucking tee, right? Like, like, Oh, I shouldn't? If it's a no, I'll follow that. Sure. But how do we encourage people to follow their yeses?

Mike Iamele 42:34 You know, I think it's the same thing we talked about with intimacy before and commitment. It's really about saying like, Okay, first of all, if my energy is vulnerable, I know that when I am in safe, vulnerable space, I'm going to be more intuitive. I know that when I speak a lot, like I do a lot of processing, just speaking out loud. It's why I can't shut up, you're probably like, Mike Shut up. I can't because that's when things start flowing. For me, I know that I know, vulnerable. So what will I do to do that? Well, sometimes I'll close my eyes when I want to be intuitive to be more vulnerable. And what starts to happen over time is, the more I do it, and for me, it's got to be in safe space with people I can be vulnerable with, I practice being intuitive for a long, long time with people I trust to like it. So I internalized that vulnerability. Because at first, we think it's outside of us, right, we've got to be in the perfect vulnerable condition. And we've got to be in the perfect zany, you know, where people can be playful. But over time, we internalize that sensitivity. And now I don't care who's around me, I don't care if you think I'm fucking crazy, I'm gonna be vulnerable, I'm gonna be who I am. And trust my intuition. And so I think, for me, it really starts with knowing again, I mean, I am obsessed with the brand energies, I'm obsessed with my work because it's knowing who we are. And then it's just tuning into that and practicing, it's throwing at that bull's eye over and over and over again, until we know we can hit it. But we can't practice if we don't turn on the lights. So we need to connect those dots.

Brandon Handley 43:57 Awesome. So you're, you're you're lined up with your purpose, you're fully charged. Can your purpose change?

Mike Iamele 44:04 So great question. I love you throw the good ones at me. So your containers can absolutely change. And they do change containers, the temporary relationships and your physical body changes your desire for sex changes, your, you know, your home changes, your job changes all these things. But what you want from that, and what you give to that doesn't change, because that's your senses that you've had since you were born. So I teach classes on your sex intimacy all the time. And people always say this while my body's changing my desires changing all the time. But sex that's just about getting off. isn't all that interesting, in my opinion, like, sure it can sustain us for a little while. It's not interesting. We always want something specific from sex. It's to us, we might want a space of vulnerability, a space where we can be playful and explore our deepest fantasies, a space where we can explore submission or dominance or whatever. That's what we actually want and would probably want to explore that over time. Now, the definition of what that looks like is going to dange vulnerable sex to me today very different than it's going to be in 50 years. I understand that. But I still know when I'm actually looking for. And so I don't have to be so attached to the container like you before with Oh, the podcast is the only way I can say that. Yeah, exactly. We let that go. And now we just have the essence. You know, you

Brandon Handley 45:19 bring up a good one, too. In the sex energy piece, I actually had somebody reach out and ask about, you know, why, you know why I might think that, you know, nuns, priests monks, abstain, right? Or even how does sexuality play out in spirituality? Right, is spirituality like? And the question was, was it is, are they missing it? Right, maybe, like, maybe they missed, like, just how the connected in spirituality was. But I think that kind of what I'm hearing you say a little bit too is like, if we just follow our basic needs, like the running as it were, right? That's not so spiritual. Whereas you can explore these vulnerabilities and make that into a spiritual, evolving experience.

Mike Iamele 46:07 Well, I think what we're talking about here is empty containers, right, we have a bunch of them in our life, so we can buy beautiful art, or we can shop at home goods, I'm not shaming anything about that. But the Home Goods piece isn't gonna make me feel something as deeply as an artist putting their intention in because it's full of assets. And so we've got a lot of, you know, like, sex feels good. Most people like sex, but it's not going to nourish us deeply if it's not full of essence. So it's just kind of like, Alright, this is a biological need, I get off, this feels good. And I move on. And now I didn't have that deeper transformation. I didn't work through my shame or trauma, I didn't feel this great, you know, divinity or connection with God, I just thought, that's cool, but it's empty. And over time, it's slowly killing us. Like we live in a world right now, where we are not sensitive enough, we're not we're numbing out, right, we have an opioid epidemic going on right now. Um, you know, there's a lot of whether we are coping through this pandemic, with, you know, food, or drugs, or alcohol, or movies or TV. And those coping mechanisms aren't inherently bad in themselves, but they can be ways of escapism, and this association, right, for sure. And what I always say is, look at art, great art, when an artist puts their heart and soul on it, it moves us, he can make paintings dance, and spark cultural revolutions and political movements and make words jump off the page. It makes us feel alive, it makes us feel more sensitive. When we feel essence, when we feel someone so tapped into their essence, we become more sensitive, not to them, but to our own essence, because that's what we grow up that

Brandon Handley 47:38 no, yeah. And you know, that that also brings up the whole idea of, you know, look, our energy fields, right, raising our BB around people that are, you know, high vibe, right? Where is is as long as you and I are like connected in the same way, a kind of vibratory field if I'm vibe and higher, and I'm, you know, strong with that, like, I can help bring you up, right, and vice versa, or transfer transfer feeling without like, craziness.

Mike Iamele 48:04 I mean, it's basically our vibe is naturally high when we're fully here and fully ourselves. And so yes,

Brandon Handley 48:10 it's part like the essence part. I know you said essence like several times, would you would you? Would you? Would you liken that to connected to source

Mike Iamele 48:18 Sure. Exactly. Connected to source, lifeforce energy, and we know what sexual energy if we're talking about sex, any of these things, essence brand energies, you know, life purpose, whatever you want to call it. I'm not a stickler on language. And I've purposely used a few different language in this talk, because I don't really care. Like I your brand energies are your own language, you choose that yourself, it's what resonates for you. But when we are fully in our bodies, and we aren't, you know, a lot of times we have trauma, so half of me is back in this past memory, and half of me is over here and half, you know, it's like a Harry Potter Horcrux. Right, we're split in a million different ways. But if I'm fully fully present, I've a lot more power here. And so I want to fully be present and sense the world see, taste, touch, hear smell more of the world. And the more I'm tapped into lines and zany and frayed, that's how I do that. And that's how I do it for other people. That's why I love podcasts, because we just get to hang out and activate people make people more sensitive to themselves and it's so much fun. And so yeah,

Brandon Handley 49:17 percent i think that's you know, that's, that's, uh, you know, what they, you know, I don't know how many episodes it took me to get to activate somebody right? Like that's what this that's what it's for. Right? That's exactly that's what 100% it's like, you know, looking for one person out there This podcast is for one person to be activated. Right and so like that's what you just did you just you know, self when you activate it somebody out there congratulations. Yeah.

Mike Iamele 49:40 And yours while they

Brandon Handley 49:43 love it. I love it. Well, man, look, look anybody. I think you got a great feel for what it is that you kind of deliver even though you know you kept saying shoddy. I think that you know it was very well done. had a lot of fun with having you on here and they would be Recognize that if they should reach out to you that they should, right? And where should they go again? Like,

Mike Iamele 50:07 yeah, so Mike iml.com slash map ma p for mapping your sensitivities, and it's 36 minutes, you get a whole training, you get a worksheet, it's free. Go ahead and do that, because you'll start to know your sensitivities.

Brandon Handley 50:19 Who's your ideal customer?

Mike Iamele 50:21 Oh, gosh, so many. I mean, people use this word for so many freaking things. But I really love people who haven't felt at home and other spiritual practices, you know, it feels very dogmatic. It feels like they've had to internalize a lot of stuff that doesn't match up to critical thinking. And I, you know, we're intelligent beings, like, it doesn't make sense to talk about purpose as achievable, even though we're told that like, Oh, your life purpose is to be a life coach, or we say that this pisses me off, you join a life purpose webinar, right? And they do one or two things, they'll say, at the very end, your life purpose is to love. Great, awesome, I'm all about love. How does that help me with my trauma with my relationship with my business in my marketing, that doesn't help at all, we'll go the other way. And they'll say you love writing your purpose is to be a writer. And again, like you if I internalize that, and I did for a while, well, now when I give up my writing job, I feel I have no purpose.

Brandon Handley 51:13 You want somebody to detach from your sense of a day,

Mike Iamele 51:16 right? We see that with people who go through a divorce or get laid off or lose a job or change jobs. You know, we see this breakup all the time, these problems with mostly its job or its relationship containers, when they break down, we lose our sense of purpose. And that doesn't make sense. So I really like people who actually want to take some critical thinking and say, wait a minute, let me think about this. Let make sense to me. And then feel right to me in my own language. Hmm.

Unknown Speaker 51:41 Nice.

Brandon Handley 51:42 I love it. Well, man, Mike, thank you so much for coming on and being a guest on spiritual dope today. Yeah, thanks

Mike Iamele 51:47 such an honor.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:00 All right, spiritual dope, what is going on today? Today we are on chapter six. Are you ready to succeed? By Sreekumar? Rao? Again, just just just a great book. We're on chapter six. This is which addresses this is I'm sorry about that.

Unknown Speaker 0:23 We,

Brandon Handley 0:24 you live in a me centered universe, right? You live in a me centered universe. And we are on part two. And I believe we ended at the end of where we ended up, we ended. There we go, we ended up surrender to the universe last time, right. So

Unknown Speaker 0:49 what we've got here are,

Brandon Handley 0:51 we had an exercise, but here's a couple helpful Hansen. A big part of it. Maybe I said it last time, maybe I didn't, I don't recall. But you know, it bears repeating. It's a consider in when you're surrendering to the universe, and you're working with everybody. And when you go forward with your intention, consider an idea that there's a there's a resolution where all parts are better off, everybody is better off. Right. And it may not be readily visible. One of the things that I studied over the past couple years is just negotiation. And there's the the idea of pizza. And there's two people that that want a pizza, there's 100% of a pizza, right? But how about the idea that maybe this is a mushroom pizza, and maybe one person loves mushrooms but hates the crust? And the other person only likes

Unknown Speaker 1:46 crust?

Brandon Handley 1:48 So what do you do, we give one person 100% of what they like off of that pizza, right, they get, they get the crust, and the other person gets the entire pizza with, with the mushrooms, right? So you get 200% out of that pizza, then you get 200% of that pizza. And, and both people get 100% of what they like. So there's opportunity all over the place out there for everybody to get all of what they want. The problem is, is most people don't take that extra effort to kind of dig into it and figure out what that extra could be for the other person or what is that 100% for the other person. So as we move on, right, so that was a helpful hint for for that as we move on. We go into the idea that his surrender is not a passive experience. There is not passive acceptance, right? You're not gonna just accept injustice as it comes along. And and, you know, look, there may be times where you stand up, and you stand up for the injustice, maybe you see some injustice at work. And, you know, maybe you rally the troops, and you go to stand up for that injustice, but it doesn't work out as a matter of fact, for some reason, somehow, you end up getting punished for this adult, the idea is like don't don't get, you know, all sad and mopey. And, you know, dejected. Take a look at what you did. Think about what you did well, in that you stood up for injustice, right? You rally the troops, maybe maybe it was the actions in particular that they went awry. Or maybe it was the overall approach. Maybe it was the actual group of people. So maybe next time you re approach it with a different tactic or a different strategy and maybe maybe a different maybe a different set of people. So the other thing is, are you in this is it when you set out to do something that doesn't work in your favor? Do you need to you need to try and figure out how you can simply let it go with out the emotional baggage. All right, I know that we talked a little bit about just you don't want to be sad, morose, you don't want to, you know kind of be attached to that thing. And then, you know, the negative emotions when you can let go of those negative emotions. It's literally like a force multiplier. Imagine how much weight would be lifted off of your chest. If you if you could just let go of the negativity, right, you've got to deal with it. nobody's saying you don't have negative emotions. It's not letting them drag you down and get all mired up in it. So the sooner you can let go of those and and move forward right in a positive manner and positivity meaning forward motion forward momentum, not simply like, oh, everything's all fucking rosy and cheery. It's a move forward. Right. And at some point, at some point, it's gonna feel like the universe is actually working with you is actually dancing with you. It's such a it's a kind of a Beautiful Thing when it happens. And when it happens, this goes back to the chapter on miracles and being able to recognize that you are working in tandem with the universe to create these miracles. That's a beautiful dance scenario. And listen, this may take years, it's going to take years, I don't know, most most people, it's going to take years, it's going to take time to get better and better and better at it, and perhaps even decades deal is you got to persist, you got to keep up on it. And you cannot fail, right? If this is your approach, if you're letting go of negative emotions, if you're working towards the greater good for everybody, then you really can't, you can't fail. So it gives an exercise of the other sensitive universe. So you're going to pick one, you're gonna pick one week, we picked to one hour time slots, where whatever it is that you do, you were doing for the sole benefit of others involved, right, you're going to listen actively. And what that means is you're going to listen, to listen, not to respond. Another way of active listening is, and this is I forget the name of the book, motivational interviewing, really great book that was created for

addictions. And people in rehab, however, is very useful in coaching. And anywhere really, you teaches you how to actively listen very well. So you'll listen to somebody, they'll talk, maybe you'll ask him a couple questions. And it's a little It is like he Miller's the author. So one of the things that he recommends, and this is listen for for two lines, and then you'll kind of reflect back to them. Right? Listen, question, question, reflect back actively, you know, what you just heard summarize it. And there's different ways to do that. So, but while you're doing that, too, you will think of ways that you can be of service to them? How can you help this person move forward, again, you know, positive momentum, or, you know, deal with their situation, or just, maybe you're just there to listen, and that's okay, too. So you're going to practice, you can practice this with strangers anonymously, right? You don't have to tell somebody that you're doing this and you can you can you think of ways that you can be service to them, and you just go do it. And what you want to do is you want to take me my an eye out of the picture while you're listening. So, you know, especially those variables, and then don't just go give everything away, right, don't just let it all go. Given this comes from Buddhism, and you give with wisdom, right, you know, give with wisdom give with, like, where you you feel like, it's going to have the most impact and, and that's one way to kind of approach that as well. Be creative, there's so many ways that you can go out there and you know, help make somebody's day or help this, you know, person out and in a one hour time slot. And so ideally each day, you know, so you're going to do that, right. And then there's other pieces, so each day, deliberately and consciously do more than one thing to make the world a little bit better. One of the ways that that I found are a couple of ways, especially given our social media nature is hey, you know, go out there and given give out some LinkedIn recommendations, right? Maybe you've got a friend that's written a book, go leave Amazon book review. Maybe you have a friend who's got an Etsy shop, share their shop, buy something from them. Maybe again, that's the you know, same for people that have written a book, a friend of yours writes a book, don't ask for them to give you a copy, buy a copy, support them. That's what support is support isn't reading it for free. It's going out there and you know, how can you support that person and give them some encouragement to help move them forward? I'll be practical and empathize. Your attitude I've got here in parentheses is is actually your approach. So attitude is actually your approach. It is super important to not expect gratitude from others for what you've done, rather be grateful that they have allowed you to serve them. Right be grateful they've accepted your gifts. You know, essentially with the universe moving through you creative source moving through you has given you the capacity to gift to that person. So you're able to serve and that is a gift right that they're they're giving you a gift by by allowing you to serve each day make someone's day is another piece of this. Hi, again, I go back to the LinkedIn recommendation somebody on Facebook, so on Insta share their share their post, make a comment You know, show them that they're not alone and whatever it is that they're going for and doing. That's these are super simple ways that you can help make someone's day friend alien that I'm doing this with, you know, she writes, she writes a newsletter, maybe you get somebody newsletter reply back to the newsletter, and and say, Hey, I really appreciate you know what you wrote here today, thanks for sharing. And oh, I didn't see it. From my perspective, just a little bit of there are so many I know, there's so many newsletters out there and so many materials out there. But some of these are genuine and written from the heart and not strictly written to get you into their program. Right. Some of these are true, true things. So what do we got here? That's one way you can make someone's day, eventually, you know, this practice becomes a part of your life. It's not just, it's not just Hey, I did this for the one week. Now, how many of these can string together? Like with meditation with exercise? How many of these great moments Can you string together in your life? Where it's consistent, and it's a steady flow of the universe giving through you to how cool is that, right?

So the idea, though, is that this is true of all the practices in this book. This isn't just for the duration of going through this book or doing these exercises. It's for the rest of your life, right? I mean, it says, you know, appearance isn't something that's going to happen in days or weeks. Now, that being said, you will notice, like almost immediately the benefits, but imagine, you know, just how great the benefits are in such a short period of time. Right? Well, those benefits be over time. However, there's benefits pay over time. So it's common for this is under helpful hands. As we finish up the exercise of the other centered universe, it is common for others to feel dejected, if they do not get the response that they're looking for. Now, listen, if this happens to you stop, stop at. Focus on how you are feeling. When you do what you set out to do. Focus on how you're feeling when you are giving or when you are in the process of doing it. Not so much the outcome. Obviously, you want to give the gift you want to serve in some capacity and manner. It's while you are doing that, that you feel great. And oftentimes, you know, if somebody does react positively, you're great. And you know, that's a good feeling. But if if they aren't responding the way that you feel like they should just stop it, relax, chill. Let's step back a second focus on what it is that you set out to do. What was your intention when you got out there to go do it and eventually, you will find joy in what you do, and not the results that you get. I think that that bears repeating, you will find joy in what you do, not the results that you get. So there's always some way to make someone's day Don't be lazy, figure it out. And then finally, you know, keep a journal so you can flip back and reflect on how this process has been working out for you. So had to whip through that one wanted to get it out there for you. This weekend will be the release of Sreekumar Rao's podcast super excited about that, as I have been with so many others in and this is it's it's interesting the journey that this podcast is going on. So anyways, take it easy, don't have a sign off and we'll chat later.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai