Episode 64: When Patrick Coughlin's mother got a call telling her that her daughter had been kidnapped and would be killed unless she paid up, it wasn't real — but it was terrifyingly convincing. In this episode of Stolen, host Erin West sits down with Patrick, a former national security and cybersecurity expert, to unpack how that "grandparent scam" changed the course of his career.
Patrick walks through the moment-by-moment terror of the scam call, why AI-powered voice cloning is making these attacks more personal and harder to detect, and what he learned mapping out the criminal ecosystems behind them. He and Erin dig into the structural failures enabling fraud at scale — under-resourced law enforcement, telecom systems built to connect calls (not verify them), payment rails that make stolen money nearly impossible to trace, and social media platforms with little incentive to intervene.
Patrick's response wasn't just to write about it — his book, Dark Side of the Boom: How Scammers Hijack the AI Revolution, breaks down the "five families of fraud." He also co-founded Savi Security, building consumer tools like Scamwise (a free scam-checking tool) and an in-call AI assistant that gives people a second opinion during a live phone call.
00:00 – Intro
02:33 – Patrick's background in counterterrorism and cybersecurity
03:35 – The call: A fake kidnapping scam
08:01 – Where these scams are coming from
09:03 – The "five families of fraud" by region
11:08 – Why Patrick decided to write the book
14:13 – How the money moves — payment rails and crypto
15:26 – Why telecoms can't verify calls, only connect them
17:09 – Chasing ghosts: why law enforcement struggles to investigate
19:33 – Regulation vs. relationship-building across borders
20:34 – Why law enforcement is exponentially under-resourced
22:29 – Rethinking cybersecurity products for everyday families
25:26 – The mission behind Savi Security
28:03 – Why we don't talk about this the right way
28:34 – A national security issue, not just a consumer one
33:14 – Social media's business incentives
35:15 – Inside Patrick's product: Scamwise and Savi Security
41:15 – Looking ahead: the "deepfake decade"
44:53 – Final thoughts: what real progress would look like
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Episode notes: https://operationshamrock.org/podcast/stolen
Thank you to our Stolen podcast sponsors, Biocatch and Scamnetic.
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