In this follow-up episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei and Colin continue their conversation about Frances Mei's transition from clinical medicine into consulting, and get much more practical about what happened once she actually made the leap.

Frances Mei explains how her first consulting opportunity started as a loose, low-commitment engagement and evolved into a formal role, why physicians should consider “dating before they get married” when evaluating new jobs, and how she learned to create a role around her skills instead of waiting for someone to tell her what to do.

From there, she went on to a director-level physician engagement and strategy role, built a network that generated new consulting opportunities, and eventually became a chief medical officer at a healthcare tech startup.

The big lesson? The best opportunities for physicians leaving medicine often aren't posted on LinkedIn.

In this episode:

• How to get your first consulting opportunity after medicine
• Why small projects can be better than committing to a new career immediately
• How to create a job that doesn't exist yet
• The skills physicians can translate into consulting
• Why clinical expertise alone isn't enough
• How networking and referrals create a consulting “flywheel”
• How to prove your value before asking for a bigger role
• How Frances Mei went from leaving medicine to a director-level role within a year
• How she ultimately became a chief medical officer at a healthcare tech startup
• Why physicians need to stop asking, “What jobs can I get as a doctor?”
• How to figure out what you're actually good at and what you actually want to do

For physicians considering leaving clinical medicine, consulting, healthcare startups, marketing, strategy, or other careers outside medicine, this episode offers a candid look at what the transition actually looks like.

The conversation also gets into something physicians don't hear enough: you don't necessarily have to follow another prescribed career ladder after leaving medicine.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What happens when doctors spend their entire careers learning to suppress their emotions?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei sits down with clinical psychologist Sacha McBain, PhD, a national leader in medical traumatic stress, to unpack what happens when physicians, nurses, and other healthcare workers are repeatedly exposed to trauma without being given the tools to process it.

Sacha explains how emotional suppression can shrink our “window of tolerance,” leading to hyperarousal, irritability, shutdown, and disconnection, and how those reactions don't just affect clinicians themselves. They can change team dynamics, undermine psychological safety, increase the risk that people won't speak up about potential errors, and ultimately affect patient care.

The conversation explores:

• What medical trauma actually is and why we don't talk about it enough

• Why “just push through it” can make trauma worse

• The science behind the window of tolerance

• Why some physicians respond to bullying and pressure by working harder while others shut down

• How physician culture can perpetuate trauma from one generation to the next

• Why psychological safety is also a patient safety issue

• How a patient's experience of trauma can shape their relationship with healthcare

• Why we can't humanize patients if healthcare workers aren't being humanized themselves

• What trauma-informed care can change for both patients and clinicians

Sacha also discusses her new patient-facing workbook on medical trauma and how clinicians can better understand what patients and families may be carrying into the hospital.

If you've ever been told to toughen up, push through it, or leave your feelings at home, this conversation is worth hearing.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Sacha McBain, PhD

Connect with Sacha: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/members/sacha-mcbain-phd

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

How does a physician actually go from full-time clinical practice to consulting?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei is joined by her husband, Colin, to break down the real, and highly nontraditional, path that took her from practicing as a full-time ENT surgeon to consulting, strategic advising, and serving as a chief medical officer at a healthcare technology company.

There was no MBA, formal corporate fellowship, or perfectly mapped-out career plan. Instead, the transition began years earlier with a passion project called Rethinking Residency, where Frances Mei learned how to build a brand, create a website, understand SEO, edit and publish stories, conduct interviews, develop a social media presence, and speak publicly about the culture of medicine.

Those skills eventually led to podcasting, a paid media opportunity, her first formal consulting contract, and a series of roles at the intersection of medicine, media, storytelling, marketing, and strategy.

Frances Mei and Colin discuss:

• What “physician consulting” actually means

• Why being a doctor is not, by itself, a consulting pitch

• How passion projects can create real professional expertise

• The importance of making specific, purposeful asks

• Why networking works better when you have something to offer

• Going back to being a beginner after becoming an attending

• How one podcast rejection led to a paid hosting opportunity

• Landing a first consulting contract without an MBA

• Learning to work inside corporate and healthcare-adjacent environments

• Why likability, humility, confidence, and authenticity matter outside the hospital

• How to increase your “surface area for luck”

• Building a portfolio career before you know exactly where it will lead

This is not a blueprint or a promise that every career pivot will happen the same way. It is an honest look at the years of groundwork, experimentation, unpaid work, rejection, relationship-building, and luck behind what can otherwise look like an overnight transition.

For any physician or high-achieving professional wondering whether they are allowed to build something beyond their original career path: why not you?

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Following Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

Medicine teaches us who we're supposed to be. But what happens when we step outside of that identity?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Dr. Frances Mei sits down with physician, graphic medicine artist, and longtime friend Dr. Ryan Montoya to talk about the unexpected lessons that come from traveling alone, exhibiting artwork around the world, and building a life beyond traditional medicine.

Ryan shares his journey from family physician and commercial illustrator to exhibiting graphic medicine in galleries across Tokyo, New York, Athens, and Naples, what it's like entering the fine art world for the first time, and why travel has become one of the greatest tools for personal growth.

Together, Frances Mei and Ryan explore:

• Why travel changes your identity

• Making meaningful friendships as an adult

• Leaving medicine without leaving yourself

• The difference between commercial art and fine art

• Reinvention after a medical career

• Why physicians need interests beyond medicine

• How new environments help you become the person you want to be

If you've ever wondered who you are outside your white coat, or felt like medicine became your entire identity, this conversation is for you.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Ryan Montoya, MD

Connect with Ryan: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/members/ryan-montoya-md

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What happens when a corporate lawyer leaves law behind to become an orthopedic surgeon?

On this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei Hardin, MD, sits down with Christina “Dr. Chrissy” Greenfield, MD, JD—an orthopedic surgery resident, new mother, and former corporate attorney who applied to medical school four times before finally getting accepted.

They discuss failing the bar exam, surviving rejection, gender bias in surgery, motherhood during residency, and why female surgeons are often expected to be both excellent and endlessly accommodating.

Dr. Chrissy also shares practical strategies from her legal career for handling conflict in the hospital, negotiating with other services, documenting difficult interactions, and de-escalating tense conversations.

In this episode:

• Going from corporate law to orthopedic surgery

• Applying to medical school four times

• Recovering from failure and rejection

• Gender bias and double standards in surgery

• Pregnancy and motherhood during residency

• Women undermining other women in medicine

• How to disagree effectively in the hospital

• Negotiation and de-escalation strategies for residents

• Why persistence matters more than a perfect path

Whether you are a medical student, resident, physician, lawyer considering medicine, or anyone navigating a nonlinear career, this conversation is a reminder to keep going—even when the path looks nothing like you planned.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Dr. Chrissy Greenfield, MD, LL.L, JD

Connect with Chrissy: @dr.chrissymd

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

One of the most accomplished neurosurgeons in Europe joins Surgeon, Interrupted.

Dr. Yu-Mi Ryang is President-Elect of the German Spine Society, Chair-Elect of the EuroSpine Education Council, and one of the first women of color to rise to the highest levels of leadership in German neurosurgery. But her journey was anything but straightforward.

In this conversation with Dr. Frances Mei Hardin, she shares what twenty years of surgical training, leadership, and perseverance taught her about excellence, mentorship, competition, and staying true to yourself in a profession that often rewards conformity.

Together, they discuss:

• Why so many people told her not to become a neurosurgeon
• Working 100+ hour weeks during surgical training
• The unique challenges of being an Asian woman in medicine
• Competition, scarcity mindset, and surgical culture
• Why mentorship matters—and why it sometimes fails
• People pleasing, authenticity, and leadership
• Building a reputation through excellence instead of ego
• How passion sustains a career in medicine

Whether you're a medical student, resident, attending physician, or simply interested in leadership and personal growth, this episode is a candid look at what it really takes to build a meaningful career in surgery.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Yu-Mi Ryang, MD

Connect with Dr. Ryang: https://de.linkedin.com/in/prof-dr-med-yu-mi-ryang-949310135

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

Can someone still change medicine after they've left it?

After returning from Hippocratic Collective's Los Angeles End of Academic Year celebration, Frances Mei shares a comment that stopped her in her tracks:

"You walked away. Your credibility is gone."

That criticism sparks a deeper conversation about one of the biggest questions in medicine today. Does meaningful change only come from people still inside the system, or are outsiders sometimes the ones most able to challenge it?

Frances Mei and Colin discuss the backlash that comes with speaking publicly about residency culture, why doctors often police each other more than the system itself, and why they believe lasting change requires people working both inside and outside of medicine.

They also share updates on the LA event, the newest issue of ex vivo, and why protecting your identity outside of medicine may make you a better physician.

In this episode:

• Highlights from Hippocratic Collective's LA End of Academic Year celebration

• The release of the Summer issue of Ex Vivo

• The comment that questioned Frances Mei's credibility after leaving surgery

• Why "fix it from the inside" isn't the only path to change

• The hidden cost of sacrificing creativity during medical training

• Why building lasting resources for physicians matters more than social media

EX VIVO 2026: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/ex-vivo/2026

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Following Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What happens when grief collides with medical training?

In this deeply personal episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei sits down with family physician, educator, and author Dr. Shanda McManus to discuss loss, caregiving, resilience, and the hidden emotional costs of becoming a doctor.

Growing up in North Philadelphia, Shonda helped care for her mother through advanced ovarian cancer before eventually becoming the first person in her family to attend college and pursue medicine. During medical school, her brother was murdered, a loss that would shape her life in profound ways. Like many physicians, she learned to keep moving, keep performing, and keep achieving—even while carrying unprocessed grief.

Together, Frances and Shanda explore the culture of medicine that often rewards endurance while leaving little room for healing, and why creating space for grief may be one of the most important acts of self-preservation for physicians.

Topics include:

• Growing up in North Philadelphia

• Caring for a parent with cancer as a child

• Becoming the first person in your family to attend college

• Pregnancy and parenthood during medical training

• Taking time away from medicine without derailing your career

• The murder of a sibling during medical school

• Unprocessed grief and emotional survival in medicine

• Why physicians deserve space to heal

• Writing, memoir, and finding meaning through storytelling

• The inspiration behind Shanda's new book

This conversation is about loss, love, family, identity, and the ways medicine sometimes asks us to be less human when we need humanity most.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Shanda McManus, MD

Connect with Shanda: https://www.shandamcmanus.com/

Brother Epistles - https://www.splitlippress.com/product-page/brother-epistles

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What happens when your residency program suddenly shuts down mid-training?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei sits down with internal medicine physician Dr. Julia Torrellas to discuss one of the most destabilizing experiences a trainee can face: the closure of a residency program during training.

Julia shares what it was like to learn that her hospital was shutting down, how residents were absorbed into a new program, and the emotional fallout of losing mentors, support systems, routines, and a sense of stability overnight. The conversation explores burnout, identity, self-sacrifice, boundaries, and what happens when medicine becomes your entire sense of self.

Topics include:

• What it feels like when a residency program closes

• Starting over in a new hospital as a senior resident

• Burnout and emotional exhaustion in training

• Why many physicians tie their identity to their career

• Self-abandonment and self-sacrifice in medicine

• Setting boundaries without sabotaging your career

• Navigating residency politics and power dynamics

• Finding agency during uncertainty and disruption

• Lessons learned from career setbacks and unexpected change

Whether you're a medical student, resident, attending physician, or someone navigating a major life transition, this conversation offers a thoughtful look at resilience, identity, and rebuilding after disruption.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Julia Torrellas, MD

Connect with Julia: @drjuliatorrellas

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What does it actually feel like to finish a plastic surgery residency in 2026?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei sits down with graduating plastic surgery resident Dr. Liz Malphrus just days before graduation to reflect on the end of a six-year journey through surgical training. Together, they discuss burnout, confidence, identity, career choices, and what comes next after residency.

Liz shares how her perspective on medicine evolved during training, why she ultimately chose private practice over academia, and the lessons she wishes she could tell her intern-year self. The conversation explores everything from comparison culture and perfectionism to finding agency, building a meaningful career, and the role supportive partners play in surviving medicine.

They also discuss:

• What residency teaches you about yourself

• The surprising parts of surgical training

• Why comparison is the thief of joy in residency

• Academic medicine vs. private practice

• The power of mentorship outside institutions

• Marriage, support systems, and surviving training together

• What happens when you finally get your life back

• Why physicians may be more capable than they realize

Whether you're a medical student, resident, attending physician, or simply curious about life behind the curtain of medical training, this episode offers an honest look at one of the biggest transitions in a physician's career.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Liz Malphrus, MD

Connect with Liz: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/members/liz-malphrus-md

@dr.malphrus

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.