What can Get Out, Kafka, surrealist art, RuPaul’s Drag Race, and contemporary film teach us about medicine?

On this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei Hardin, MD, and Colin sit down with clinical psychologist Sacha McBain, PhD, to talk about Pathologizing Pop Culture, her long-running Hippocratic Collective column exploring healthcare, illness, disability, trauma, and recovery through movies, television, literature, music, and art.

Sacha explains why art can give language to experiences long before medicine does, and how engaging with stories can expand perspective, empathy, compassion, and even our own capacity for emotional processing.

The conversation moves through some of the column’s most memorable pieces, including Get Out and its relationship to medical racism, trust, and the history of harm within healthcare. They also discuss Kafka’s The Metamorphosis, surrealist art, disability, grief, and how abstraction can sometimes help us understand experiences that are difficult to put into words.

In this episode:

• Why pop culture belongs in conversations about healthcare

• How art can build empathy and perspective

• Get Out, medical racism, and trust in healthcare

• Trauma, illness, disability, and recovery in art

• Why horror and science fiction can make difficult ideas more accessible

• The role of storytelling in emotional processing

• What clinicians can learn from patients’ favorite music, movies, and art

• How creativity can make healthcare professionals more human

• Why art sometimes understands suffering before medicine does

A conversation about what happens when we stop treating art as separate from medicine and start asking what stories can teach us about the people we care for.

Pathologizing Pop Culture: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/pathologizing-pop-culture

Articles mentioned:

1 Year Anniversary: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/post/the-benefits-of-pathologizing-your-pop-culture

Get Out: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/post/get-out-a-horror-story-of-medicine

RuPauls' Drag Race: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/post/chronic-illness-and-disability-on-rupauls-drag-race

Matt Sesow: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/post/matt-sesows-choice-life-and-art-after-amputation

The Metamorphosis: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/post/the-metamorphosis

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Sacha McBain, PhD

Connect with Sacha: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/members/sacha-mcbain-phd

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What does it take for a relationship to survive surgical residency, career changes, financial risk, and ten years of becoming very different people?

On this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei Hardin, MD, is joined by her husband Colin to celebrate ten years together and look back at what actually made their relationship work.

They met just months before Frances Mei matched into a five-year surgical residency, meaning much of the early relationship unfolded under what they jokingly call “wartime conditions”: sleep deprivation, brutal hours, emotional reactivity, uncertainty about medicine, and very little bandwidth for anything outside the hospital.

They talk about attraction, choosing a partner you genuinely enjoy, learning to let each other fail, and why loving someone does not mean trying to control or fix them. Colin shares what it was like supporting Frances Mei through residency when he could sometimes see a bad decision coming, but knew she needed to arrive at the lesson herself.

They also revisit one of the rules that helped protect their relationship during residency: a “work talk moratorium.” Frances Mei could unload about the hospital during the drive home, but once she walked through the door, work did not get to consume the rest of their night.

And they finally address a recurring assumption Frances Mei hears online: that she was only able to leave surgical practice because she had a “rich husband.” They talk candidly about their actual finances, the tradeoffs they made, living with limited savings during residency, choosing rural medicine intentionally, and taking real financial risk when Frances Mei ultimately changed careers.

In this episode:

• Why attraction matters in a long-term relationship

• Dating and marriage during surgical residency

• Supporting a partner without trying to control them

• Sleep deprivation, emotional regulation, and residency

• The “work talk moratorium” that protected their relationship

• Knowing when medicine is taking over your entire life

• Why difficult seasons can reveal compatibility

• The truth about Frances Mei leaving surgery and the “rich husband” assumption

• Financial tradeoffs behind a major career change

• Why you want a partner who works in both peacetime and “wartime”

A candid conversation about love, partnership, medicine, money, and what ten years together can teach you about building a life with another person.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Following Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What happens when you spend years becoming excellent at medicine while constantly masking who you are?

On this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei Hardin, MD, sits down with OB-GYN, physician educator, and creator Jessica Geida, DO, for a candid conversation about neurodivergence in medicine, adult ADHD diagnosis, burnout, masking, people pleasing, and the complicated relationship between physician identity and personal identity.

Jessica shares what it was like to move through medical school and residency with undiagnosed ADHD, why she often felt like she “fit in everywhere but belonged nowhere,” and how becoming a mother eventually helped her recognize her own neurodivergence.

Together, they explore the strengths neurodivergent physicians can bring to medicine—including empathy, creativity, pattern recognition, and unconventional thinking—as well as the cost of repeatedly shrinking yourself to fit systems that may conflict with your values.

They also discuss toxic teaching environments in surgical training, why leaving clinical medicine does not automatically untangle your identity from your work, and a different way to think about burnout: not simply as exceeding your capacity, but as the exhaustion that can come from constantly forcing yourself to fit into a system that does not fit you.

In this episode:

• ADHD and neurodivergence in physicians

• Adult ADHD diagnosis in women

• Masking and people pleasing during medical training

• Feeling like an outsider in medicine

• Strengths of neurodivergent physicians

• Burnout and values misalignment

• Toxic surgical training environments

• Physician identity outside of clinical medicine

• Learning to ask, “If I say yes, what will it cost me?”

• Unmasking and building a career that fits who you actually are

A thoughtful conversation about what happens when the same traits that can help someone excel in medicine also make traditional medical culture especially difficult to navigate.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Jessica Geida, DO

Connect with Jessica: @smilesandscrubs

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What if burnout doesn’t look like hating your job, but like losing your creativity?

In this solo-style episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei Hardin, MD, is joined by her husband Colin after returning from more than two weeks of solo travel through Denmark and Norway.

They talk about how Frances’ relationship with travel has changed since leaving clinical medicine, why stepping away from work often seems to create more opportunity rather than less, and the habits she is trying to unlearn after years of surgical training—including opening email the moment she wakes up.

Frances also shares what she learned from filling an entire journal while traveling, why physicians can become overly precious about creative work, and the importance of practicing before the “perfect” opportunity arrives.

In this episode:

• How burnout can show up as a loss of creativity

• Why Frances stopped checking email first thing in the morning

• Solo travel after leaving clinical medicine

• Journaling and developing your own voice in the age of AI

• Why waiting for inspiration can keep you stuck

• Practicing before the big opportunity arrives

• The surprising relationship between taking time off and getting new work

• Moving beyond travel as escapism

• Creating a healthier relationship with ambition and productivity

• Why your inbox does not deserve to control your day

For physicians, creatives, entrepreneurs, and anyone trying to build a life where work matters without allowing it to consume everything else.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Following Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What if you didn't get on the wrong train? What if you simply became a different person along the way?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei sits down with Dr. Wai-Jia Tam, a Singaporean humanitarian doctor whose career has spanned public health, humanitarian medicine, COVID response, and global health leadership.

Dr. Wai-Jia Tam shares an extraordinary story of following a path that looked successful on paper while gradually losing touch with the person she wanted to be. From becoming a physician after growing up dreaming of being a wildlife documentary host, to humanitarian work, moving her family to Tanzania, and now finding her way toward conservation, her story is ultimately about something bigger than career change.

It's about reclaiming yourself.

The conversation explores:

• What happens when the career you've built no longer feels like the right destination
• Why physicians can struggle to recognize their own definition of success
• The pressure to prove yourself in medicine and high-achieving cultures
• Reconnecting with the dreams you had as a child
• Why changing direction doesn't mean your past was a mistake
• The difference between reinventing yourself and reclaiming yourself
• How a major health setback forced Dr. Wai-Jia Tam to reconsider her identity
• Finding purpose outside of credentials, titles, and professional achievement
• How one cold DM led to an unexpected opportunity in wildlife conservation
• Why the work you do quietly for years may eventually open an unexpected door
• Giving yourself permission to get off the “wrong train”

Dr. Wai-Jia Tam also shares the remarkable story of creating a children's book as a teenager to raise money for a home for girls she met in Nepal. Despite being told she couldn't do it—and being told her paintings were terrible—she taught herself to paint, published the book, and ultimately raised $100,000 to build the home.

For physicians and other high achievers who have ever wondered “Is this really what I want?”, this is a conversation about permission: permission to change, to pause, to choose differently, and to become more fully yourself.

And Dr. Wai-Jia Tam leaves us with a beautiful definition of healing:

Healing isn't about returning to who you were before the pain. It's about giving yourself permission to be who you were always meant to be.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Dr. Wai-Jia Tam

Connect with Wai Jia: @drwaijiatam

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What if changing your mind isn't failure, but actually a sign that you're paying attention?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei sits down with Rachel Gerber Kule, a communications strategist, entrepreneur, and self-described Renaissance woman who has built a career by repeatedly pivoting toward what fits her better.

Rachel shares how she went from wanting to be a news anchor, to realizing that path wasn't right for her, to building a successful career in communications and PR—and eventually launching a new venture supporting people going through IVF and fertility challenges.

The conversation goes much deeper than career changes. Frances Mei and Rachel explore what it means to let go of a chapter without feeling ashamed, understand your own values, build confidence, set boundaries, and create a life that actually reflects who you are.

They talk about:

• Why changing direction isn't the same as failing
• How to recognize when a path no longer fits
• Letting go of shame and unmet expectations
• Why knowing your values makes decision-making easier
• How self-confidence gives you the courage to make your own choices
• Setting boundaries at work and in relationships
• Why crying and emotional expression aren't signs of weakness
• How difficult experiences can shape who we become
• Learning to trust yourself when you no longer have someone else to call
• Why uncertainty can actually create freedom and possibility
• Building a life around your own values instead of inherited expectations

For physicians especially, this conversation offers a powerful reminder: you don't have to spend your entire life following the path you originally chose. Frances Mei reflects on what it meant to leave clinical surgery and build a portfolio career—and why becoming clear about your values and boundaries is essential to creating a life that feels like your own.

Rachel's favorite advice comes from Henry David Thoreau: “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.” The question is whether you've taken the time to figure out what those dreams actually are.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Rachel Gerber Kule

Connect with Rachel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelkule

Founder of Pursuit PR, a C-suite communications advisory firm, and Fertilyfe, a community focused on supporting people navigating IVF and fertility challenges.

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

In this follow-up episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei and Colin continue their conversation about Frances Mei's transition from clinical medicine into consulting, and get much more practical about what happened once she actually made the leap.

Frances Mei explains how her first consulting opportunity started as a loose, low-commitment engagement and evolved into a formal role, why physicians should consider “dating before they get married” when evaluating new jobs, and how she learned to create a role around her skills instead of waiting for someone to tell her what to do.

From there, she went on to a director-level physician engagement and strategy role, built a network that generated new consulting opportunities, and eventually became a chief medical officer at a healthcare tech startup.

The big lesson? The best opportunities for physicians leaving medicine often aren't posted on LinkedIn.

In this episode:

• How to get your first consulting opportunity after medicine
• Why small projects can be better than committing to a new career immediately
• How to create a job that doesn't exist yet
• The skills physicians can translate into consulting
• Why clinical expertise alone isn't enough
• How networking and referrals create a consulting “flywheel”
• How to prove your value before asking for a bigger role
• How Frances Mei went from leaving medicine to a director-level role within a year
• How she ultimately became a chief medical officer at a healthcare tech startup
• Why physicians need to stop asking, “What jobs can I get as a doctor?”
• How to figure out what you're actually good at and what you actually want to do

For physicians considering leaving clinical medicine, consulting, healthcare startups, marketing, strategy, or other careers outside medicine, this episode offers a candid look at what the transition actually looks like.

The conversation also gets into something physicians don't hear enough: you don't necessarily have to follow another prescribed career ladder after leaving medicine.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

What happens when doctors spend their entire careers learning to suppress their emotions?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei sits down with clinical psychologist Sacha McBain, PhD, a national leader in medical traumatic stress, to unpack what happens when physicians, nurses, and other healthcare workers are repeatedly exposed to trauma without being given the tools to process it.

Sacha explains how emotional suppression can shrink our “window of tolerance,” leading to hyperarousal, irritability, shutdown, and disconnection, and how those reactions don't just affect clinicians themselves. They can change team dynamics, undermine psychological safety, increase the risk that people won't speak up about potential errors, and ultimately affect patient care.

The conversation explores:

• What medical trauma actually is and why we don't talk about it enough

• Why “just push through it” can make trauma worse

• The science behind the window of tolerance

• Why some physicians respond to bullying and pressure by working harder while others shut down

• How physician culture can perpetuate trauma from one generation to the next

• Why psychological safety is also a patient safety issue

• How a patient's experience of trauma can shape their relationship with healthcare

• Why we can't humanize patients if healthcare workers aren't being humanized themselves

• What trauma-informed care can change for both patients and clinicians

Sacha also discusses her new patient-facing workbook on medical trauma and how clinicians can better understand what patients and families may be carrying into the hospital.

If you've ever been told to toughen up, push through it, or leave your feelings at home, this conversation is worth hearing.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Sacha McBain, PhD

Connect with Sacha: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/members/sacha-mcbain-phd

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

How does a physician actually go from full-time clinical practice to consulting?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Frances Mei is joined by her husband, Colin, to break down the real, and highly nontraditional, path that took her from practicing as a full-time ENT surgeon to consulting, strategic advising, and serving as a chief medical officer at a healthcare technology company.

There was no MBA, formal corporate fellowship, or perfectly mapped-out career plan. Instead, the transition began years earlier with a passion project called Rethinking Residency, where Frances Mei learned how to build a brand, create a website, understand SEO, edit and publish stories, conduct interviews, develop a social media presence, and speak publicly about the culture of medicine.

Those skills eventually led to podcasting, a paid media opportunity, her first formal consulting contract, and a series of roles at the intersection of medicine, media, storytelling, marketing, and strategy.

Frances Mei and Colin discuss:

• What “physician consulting” actually means

• Why being a doctor is not, by itself, a consulting pitch

• How passion projects can create real professional expertise

• The importance of making specific, purposeful asks

• Why networking works better when you have something to offer

• Going back to being a beginner after becoming an attending

• How one podcast rejection led to a paid hosting opportunity

• Landing a first consulting contract without an MBA

• Learning to work inside corporate and healthcare-adjacent environments

• Why likability, humility, confidence, and authenticity matter outside the hospital

• How to increase your “surface area for luck”

• Building a portfolio career before you know exactly where it will lead

This is not a blueprint or a promise that every career pivot will happen the same way. It is an honest look at the years of groundwork, experimentation, unpaid work, rejection, relationship-building, and luck behind what can otherwise look like an overnight transition.

For any physician or high-achieving professional wondering whether they are allowed to build something beyond their original career path: why not you?

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Following Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.

Medicine teaches us who we're supposed to be. But what happens when we step outside of that identity?

In this episode of Surgeon, Interrupted, Dr. Frances Mei sits down with physician, graphic medicine artist, and longtime friend Dr. Ryan Montoya to talk about the unexpected lessons that come from traveling alone, exhibiting artwork around the world, and building a life beyond traditional medicine.

Ryan shares his journey from family physician and commercial illustrator to exhibiting graphic medicine in galleries across Tokyo, New York, Athens, and Naples, what it's like entering the fine art world for the first time, and why travel has become one of the greatest tools for personal growth.

Together, Frances Mei and Ryan explore:

• Why travel changes your identity

• Making meaningful friendships as an adult

• Leaving medicine without leaving yourself

• The difference between commercial art and fine art

• Reinvention after a medical career

• Why physicians need interests beyond medicine

• How new environments help you become the person you want to be

If you've ever wondered who you are outside your white coat, or felt like medicine became your entire identity, this conversation is for you.

Host: Frances Mei Hardin, MD

Guest: Ryan Montoya, MD

Connect with Ryan: https://www.hippocratic-collective.com/members/ryan-montoya-md

Presented by: The Hippocratic Collective

Follow Frances Mei on Instagram & Tiktok @francesmeimd

And subscribe to ⁨@HippocraticCollective⁩ on Youtube for all of the other shows the Hippocratic Collective has to offer.