Sustain

Simon Vansintjan

Richard Littauer

In this episode, host Richard Littauer and guest Simon Vansintjan dive into the topic of open-source sustainability in the music industry. Simon, a long-time friend of Richard and a seasoned coder and designer, introduces Mirlo, an innovative online platform he's working on that combines elements of Bandcamp and Patreon to enable direct financial support for musicians. Mirlo, an open-source project built with a full-stack TypeScript, Express, Redis, Postgres, and React, aims to provide an alternative to traditional music streaming services by focusing on direct artist support and community engagement. Simon discusses the challenges and benefits of building Mirlo as a cooperative, the intricacies of its development and funding model, and the broader implications of open-source principles in creating a more equitable and sustainable ecosystem for musicians. Hit download now to hear more!

[00:01:38] What is Mirlo? Simon explains it’s an online record store where users can buy digital music directly from musicians and provide monthly support, similar to a combination of Bandcamp and Patreon.

[00:02:32] Simon discusses Mirlo’s open source status and its tech stack, which includes TypeScript/JavaScript, Express, Redis, Postgres, and React.

[00:03:13] Richard inquires about the origins of Mirlo, and Simon describes his work with Resonate, issues with legacy code, and the decision to create Mirlo to explore sustainable business models without venture capital.

[00:04:16] We hear that Spotify isn’t profitable as Simon discusses the challenges streaming service face, which led Mirlo to adopt a different model.

[00:05:04] Simon explains Mirlo’s co-op structure, focusing on worker empowerment and non-hierarchical decision-making, contrasting it with Resonate’s multi-stakeholder co-op model.

[00:08:57] Richard asks about Mirlo’s sustainability model. Simon describes Mirlo’s revenue model, which includes taking a small cut from each sale, user contributions that cover server costs, and plans for grants and a Kickstarter campaign.

[00:10:23] Simon explains the complexities of starting as a nonprofit and the decision to form an LLC for greater flexibility.

[00:11:03] Richard questions the distinction between artists and worker owners. Simon discusses the different models for including musicians as co-owners, ongoing experimentation with the co-op structure, and the importance of recognizing musicians’ contributions to Mirlo.

[00:13:07] The conversation turns to contributors to the GitHub codebase, and Richard mentions a couple of contributors and wonders if they have equal shares as worker owners. Simon explains that neither contributor is a worker owner, and he talks about the challenges in tracking contributions for co-ownership.

[00:16:28] Simon highlights the slow process of building trust and the challenges posed by financial constraints, emphasizing the need for time and money.

[00:18:29] Richard shifts focus to the codebase and notes the absence of contributing docs, asking about the onboarding process for new contributors. Simon explains their use of a Discord server for feedback and onboarding.

[00:20:18] Richard questions the benefits of being open source for Mirlo, and Simon emphasizes all the significant benefits of being open source.

[00:21:30] Mirlo’s competitive space is brought up and Simon acknowledges the moral aspect and mentions Mirlo’s near feature parity with Bandcamp, excluding merch and label support. He explains the Mirlo isn’t necessarily trying to compete directly with major platforms but aims to create a diverse, open, and transparent internet space.

[00:23:52] Simon explains the Kickstarter rewards, including a compilation album and merch, and when it ends.

[00:25:31] Richard praises Mirlo’s intentional cooperative approach and its efforts to maintain and grow the platform sustainably and Simon encourages listeners to go check out Mirlo, mentioning he has purchased music from the platform.

[00:26:19] Find out where you can follow Simon online.

[00:16:46] “A lot of [this project] is built on trust. It takes a long time to build trust with people.”

[00:20:25] “The code is much better for [being open source].”

[00:21:06] “Being open source generates trust.”

[00:22:05] “We’re noticing that people care about it being a co-op, and that people care about it being open source.”

Special Guest: Simon Vansintjan.

Support Sustain

Dr. Carlotta A. Berry

Richard Littauer

In this episode, host Richard Littauer engages in a conversation with Dr. Carlotta Berry, a Professor in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology and a passionate advocate for diversity in STEM. Carlotta shares her journey from an undergraduate student rarely seeing diversity in her field to becoming an engineering professor determined to change that narrative. She discusses her work at the Children's Museum of Indianapolis, emphasizing the importance of making STEM accessible and exciting for all, especially girls and underrepresented minorities. She also dives into her motivations behind founding two nonprofits, Black in Engineering and Black in Robotics, highlighting their roles during the racial reckoning and the importance of maintaining momentum in diversity efforts amidst societal backlashes. Additionally, Carlotta touches upon her engagement with open source communities, particularly in robotics, to further democratize STEM education. The discussion also covers her unique approaches to connecting with younger audiences through hip hop slam poetry on TikTok and the significance of representation in every aspect of STEM, from academia to community initiatives. Press download now to hear more!

[00:01:05] Carlotta tells us about the Children’s Museum of Indianapolis and describes it as one of the largest children’s museums in the world, detailing its features and her role there in STEM and robotics activities.

[00:02:00] Richard comments on Carlotta’s extensive education and asks about her journey from PHD to her current position. She explains her motivation for pursuing a PhD was to become an engineering professor and to represent diversity in the field.

[00:02:59] Carlotta recounts that her PhD experience was relatively smooth compared to her undergrad challenges, highlighting the focus on subjects she loved.

[00:04:57] The conversation turns to Carlotta’s involvement with nonprofits, particularly ‘Black in Engineering’ and ‘Black in Robotics’, and she shares the origin of these groups. She talks about the purpose of ‘Black in Engineering’ and its relevance in the current political climate.

[00:08:26] Richard inquires how Carlotta stays motivated amid setbacks in civil rights progress. Carlotta cites the resilience of past civil rights leaders as inspiration and emphasizes the role of true allies.

[00:10:41] The discussion shifts to open source, and Carlotta outlines her work in STEM communication and her involvement with open source hardware through her robots, the ‘flower bots’. Also, she acknowledges she has built a community primarily through social media engagement.

[00:15:16] Carlotta explains Rose Bot’s origin, related to her school’s mascot, and its connection with various STEM outreach and education initiatives, such as Rosie, Lily, and Daisy bots. She celebrates the success of her program in increasing enrollment and diversity in computer science and software engineering, as well as her own department.

[00:17:50] Richard inquires about Carlotta’s day-to-day activities and how she manages everything. She clarifies she’s a workaholic with a high teaching lead at a teaching-focused school and does not balance well, yet she is passionate about her work, and she details her daily schedule.

[00:20:25] What is Carlotta’s mentoring approach for young women in STEM? She emphasizes honesty and support for her students, sharing her own struggles and the importance of community and resources to navigate the difficulties in engineering education.

[00:23:46] Richard asks Carlotta what changes she would suggest for the broader open source community to increase diversity and representation in STEM. Carlotta advises against working in silos, stressing the importance of education about open source, reaching beyond typical recruitment spaces, and creating diverse testing groups.

[00:26:35] Carlotta shares her strategy of code-switching and the importance of connecting with people and listening to them. She encourages students to pursue what is authentic to them and to avoid forcing themselves into careers they are not passionate about.

[00:29:21] Richard inquires about hip hop slam poetry, and Carlotta shares that she used hip hop slam poetry as a method to connect with younger audiences and teach them about STEM on TikTok.

[00:31:03] Carlotta talks about her books and describes her passion for romance novels and her decision to write black STEM romance novels to represent black women in science and engineering positively.

[00:33:19] How does Carlotta balance her mission with her personal aspirations? She explains her mission serves her internal validation, aiming to improve the STEM experience for black and female students and thus contributing to a more diverse and inclusive future.

[00:35:18] Find out where you can read more about Carlotta and her work.

[00:09:57] “Yeah, and is that supposed to be a problem? So, I got my PhD because of affirmative action. Is that better than your Twitter scholarship? I say yes!”

Special Guest: Dr. Carlotta A. Berry.

Support Sustain

Susan Kennedy

Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox

In this episode, hosts Richard Littauer and Eriol Fox chat with Susan Kennedy, a program manager at the Open Technology Fund (OTF), to explore the intricacies of sustaining open source technologies. OTF, a nonprofit organization, plays a vital role in promoting internet freedom in oppressive regimes by supporting the development of anti-censorship and anti-surveillance technologies. Funded by the U.S. Congress but operating independently, OTF aids in navigating the challenges attached to open source project sustainability and maintenance. Susan outlines OTF's fund mechanism, highlighting its commitment to supporting open source projects that are pivotal for internet freedom. Also, the episode shines a light on the newly initiated FOSS Sustainability Fund by OTF, designed to specifically address the financial and logistical hurdles facing open source technologies today. Press download to hear more!

[00:01:41] Susan explains the OTF’s role as a non-profit promoting internet freedom through anti-censorship and anti-surveillance technologies, mainly funded by the U.S. government but operates independently.

[00:02:37] There’s a comparison of OTF to Germany’s Sovereign Tech Fund, emphasizing differences in funding despite both being government funded.

[00:03:51] There’s a discussion on how OTF funds projects like Signal despite potential congressional controversies.

[00:04:15] Susan introduces the FOSS Sustainability Fund aimed at supporting open source technologies for internet freedom.

[00:06:15] Susan gives details on the scale of the FOSS Sustainability Fund, mentioning financial contributions from other private donors alongside U.S. government funds.

[00:07:34] We find out the details of eligibility criteria for FOSS Sustainability Fund applicants, as Susan emphasizes projects with a track record and active community engagement.

[00:09:00] Susan discusses the outcomes from the pilot funding round, focusing on the importance of community meetings and interaction. Also, she talks about exploration of sustainability as a lifecycle, including potential sunsetting of projects, emphasizing that sustainability might look different for each project.

[00:13:17] Susan talks about exploration of sustainability as a lifecycle, including potential sunsetting of projects, emphasizing that sustainability might look different for each project.

[00:15:19] Richard questions the approach of funding projects that are charismatic and grant-savvy, instead of focusing on lesser-known but critical projects, questioning the open application process. Susan defends the open application process of the Internet Freedom Fund, explaining it allows for a broader reach and inclusivity, ensuring opportunities for lesser-known projects to apply.

[00:17:06] Richard asks if a small, unrelated project like ‘right pad’ used by major projects can apply, leading to a broader discussion on the relevance of small projects within significant tools. Susan responds by focusing on the end-users’ needs, emphasizing the importance of even small projects if they are critical to larger tools like Tails.

[00:18:51] Susan highlights the two-phase application process designed to guide applicants efficiently, providing feedback and advice on project fit and impact, and she describes the iterative application process.

[00:19:51] Eriol discusses the advisory aspect of OTF’s application process, noting the interaction and intention of their approach which aids applicants in refining their proposals. They raise concerns about projects using sustainability funds to tackle debt and asks how OTF views the alignment of tech debt resolution with user-centric sustainability.

[00:21:34] Susan elaborates on distinguishing between tech debt and sustainability, advocating for a balanced approach that includes both technical fixes and enhancements in user engagement and governance. She stresses the importance of having user feedback mechanisms and long-term strategic planning as part of sustainable development, derived from consultations with funded projects.

[00:23:36] We learn about OTF’s lab services, which support projects beyond funding, in areas like security, usability, design, and communication, enhancing the holistic support structure for open source sustainability.

[00:26:44] Richard asks if there are expectations for funded projects to help guide their peers toward more sustainable practices. Susan explains that while OTF shares a list of alternate funding sources with applicants, the field remains underfunded, and stresses the importance of sharing learning publicly to help educate other funders and enhance funding efforts.

[00:28:07] Richard questions if there are requirements for projects to support their dependencies or the broader ecosystem. Susan clarifies that while there’s no mandate for projects to fund their dependencies, OTF looks for projects that consider and support their dependencies as part of their roadmap.

[00:28:31] What is Susan’s long-term vision for the fund? She wishes for significantly more funding to support a greater number of projects and hopes for netter coordination among funders and an increased focus on essential aspects of sustainability.

[00:29:32] Find out where you can learn more about Susan and the OTF online.

[00:04:35] “Since OTF started back in 2012, we have only supported open source technologies.”

[00:08:04] “We’re looking to maintain and sustain.”

Special Guest: Susan Kennedy.

Support Sustain

Velda Kiara

Richard Littauer

Today, host Richard has a conversation with guest Velda Kiara, a passionate open source developer. Velda discusses how open source has helped businesses, how it benefits both coders and non-coders, and how it can lead to career growth. She also talks about the challenges of open source, particularly in terms of finances and the sustainability of projects. The discussion also turns to Velda’s attendance at OSCA fest in Lagos, Nigeria, and her involvement with Black Python Devs. Velda shares her personal journey of contributing to Django and other Python projects and tells us about her experience joining programs like Djangonaut Space and contributing to projects like Novu. Press download now to hear more!

[00:00:10] The episode opens with Velda highlighting the ins and outs of open source, acknowledging that it allows for the use of software that businesses can monetize. She appreciates the good that comes from open source despite the criticism of some corporations. She acknowledges the pros and cons of open source, expressing hope that the pros will eventually outweigh the cons.

[00:02:21] Richard introduces Velda and praises her answer and asks if she’d like to change her initial statement. Velda stands by her answer, expressing willingness to continue the discussion for further insights on open source.

[00:03:31] Velda confirms her attendance at OSCA fest, mentioning he talk on building APIs with Django, DRF, and Open API, and discusses the importance of sustainability in growing the open source community in Africa.

[00:04:34] Richard inquires about Velda’s involvement with Black Panther Devs, and she explains the inception, its objectives, and activities like workshops and meetups that support the community.

[00:07:12] The conversation shifts to encouraging newcomers to join open source, emphasizing roles beyond coding, such as project management and writing.

[00:09:08] Richard and Velda discuss the challenges designers face in open source and the potential career benefits of contributing to open source, even for non-developers. Velda shares how open source helped her gain experience and improve skills, which is beneficial at any career level, and she discusses the “level up” aspect of open source and the learning opportunities it provides.

[00:12:00] Richard explores into the sustainability of open source for late-stage careers and the challenges maintainers face. Velda suggests using open source for mentorship and ensuring project continuity by engaging contributors and sharing maintenance responsibilities.

[00:14:02] What currently excites Velda about open source? She expresses her excitement about contributing to Django after building many websites with it and her positive experience at DjangoCon US, which she found to be an inclusive community. Also, she discusses Djangonaut Space, an eight-week program designed to assist new contributors like her in contributing to the Django framework or third-party packages.

[00:16:28] Velda mentions her contributions to other Python projects, such as Novu, and her new experiences working with SDKs. She reflects on the learning process in open source and shares her excitement for exploring various Python projects and talks about how she started a newsletter called, “The Storytellers by Tales.”

[00:12:36] “If you eventually want to not let the project die, you could easily use open source as a way to mentor another person who’s going to help you maintain for a while if you want to retire or stop writing code in general.”

Special Guest: Velda Kiara.

Support Sustain

Kari L. Jordan

Richard Littauer

In this episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes guest Dr. Kari L. Jordan, the Executive Director of The Carpentries, to discuss the organization’s mission, challenges, and strategies for fostering an inclusive community that teaches data and coding skills. We explore topics like sustaining open source projects, the importance of teaching open source tools and practices, and how The Carpentries contribute to the ecosystem. The conversation dives into the funding strategies, volunteer engagement, accessibility, and the future goals of The Carpentries, including spreading skills in data science and coding across diverse linguistic and geographical communities. Also, we’ll touch on broader issues such as equity in tech and the potential avenues for increasing participation of underrepresented groups in open source and data science. Press download to hear more!

[00:02:03] Richard asks Kari about The Carpentries work, and she gives her elevator pitch, emphasizing their mission of teaching inclusive data and coding skills.

[00:03:23] Kari discusses how The Carpentries incorporates open source principles in teaching various aspects, including community management and code of conduct. Also, she outlines the adjacent communities to The Carpentries, mentioning rOpenSci and the Center for Scientific Collaboration and Community Engagement.

[00:05:15] Richard jokes about The Carpentries being well-funded, and Kari clarifies their actual funding sources and the crucial role of volunteers.

[00:07:15] Kari details how the nine paid staff of The Carpentries structure their work across curricula development, workshops and instruction, and community engagement.

[00:08:59] A question comes up about The Carpentries success metrics, and Kari speaks on their goal to build global capacity in essential data skills for informed decision-making.

[00:11:56] Discussing the ethical use of data, Kari explains The Carpentries alignment with the FAIR Principles to ensure data management is equitable and accessible.

[00:14:47] Kari highlights the importance of recognition and appreciation in open source contributions, and speaks about the diversity in forms of appreciation, from LinkedIn badges to DOIs for contributions, and the necessity of different incentives.

[00:17:34] Kari acknowledges the divide and discusses how individuals in The Carpentries often pick a focus, be it teaching or lesson development, though some do cross over between data and open source contributions.

[00:19:37] Richard probes into the potential contribution of ‘data people’ to the burnout of open source maintainers and whether they should also contribute to the maintenance. Kari agrees on the correlation but suggests it might be a confidence issues and emphasizes the need to educate these individuals on the importance of their contributions.

[00:21:12] Richard seeks a clearer definition of what constitutes a contribution within The Carpentries, and Kari responds by referring to their Code of Conduct which clarifies that contributions are welcome as long as they adhere to it.

[00:22:45] What is Kari’s long-term vision for The Carpentries? She envisions their lessons being taught in hundreds of languages and spreading their educational model without a reliance on strong internet connections and mentions currently having a multilingual open source glossary called Glosario.

[00:25:26] Kari talks about the hardest part of her job, which is that volunteer capacity and revenue generation are current organizational priorities.

[00:28:29] What would Kari focus on in open source if she wasn’t with The Carpentries? She expresses her desire to concentrate efforts on equity and inclusion, specifically increasing the involvement of people of color in open source within the U.S.

[00:31:20] Richard asks Kari what she’s really excited about for the future of The Carpentries. She shares her enthusiasm about potential strategic alliances with other organizations to share resources and thrive together, and the creation of resources for communities to run their own inclusive events.

[00:32:58] Find out where you can follow Kari online.

[00:06:46] “We’ve supported workshops in over 64 countries, and it’s because of our volunteers.”

[00:09:31] “We know that decisions that impact our lives are made with data.”

[00:10:48] “Before I came on staff at The Carpentries, I had never heard of R, Python. I had never heard of GitHub, and I have a PhD.”

[00:16:07] “Appreciation is different depending on what’s important to you.”

Special Guest: Kari L. Jordan.

Support Sustain

Stephen Okonkwo

Richard Littauer

In this episode of Sustain, the OSCA 2023 series, host Richard welcomes Steve Okonkwo, a multidisciplinary designer who actively contributes to the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Steve sheds light on his role in enhancing user experience through thoughtful design, particularly for OSCA, and shares his dedication to continue elevating the design team's work. Richard and Steve discuss the Sustain sub-event, the importance of design in open source, and the intricacies of conference planning around open source products. Steve also touches on the significance of research, the need for transparency in open source communities, and his personal journey and future aspirations within the design landscape. Press download now to hear more!

[00:01:07] Steve tells us about his career as a multidisciplinary designer and his work in open source. He discusses his focus on improving user experience through design, including website and brand identity design for OSCA.

[00:02:01] Richard compliments the OSCA’s branding, particularly the orange logos, and Steve mentions that OSCA has been his primary focus, and he plans to continue supporting their design team.

[00:02:55] There was a large attendance at the last OSCAFest and a Sustain sub-event. Steve tells us he was the design facilitator for the design side of Sustain.

[00:03:40] Steve highlights key points from OSCA discussions, including the growing opportunities for designers in open source and the importance of contributing to project aesthetics.

[00:05:30] The conversation shifts to the iterative nature of web design and user experience, and Steve emphasizes the importance of research and testing in design updates to prevent overwhelming users.

[00:06:37] Richard discusses the uniqueness of working with open source communities and the need for transparency. Steve talks about his approach to working with open source, emphasizing transparency, communications, and commitment to quality.

[00:08:09] Richard asks about building a conference around open source products, and Steve shares insights from OSCAFest, including showcasing new tools like Penpot.

[00:10:15] Richard inquires about challenges in designing the OSCA festival, and Steven mentions issues with physical artwork and space design.

[00:11:02] What’s next for Steve? He talks about his current role as a multidisciplinary designer in Spokane, Washington, and his aspirations in open source design.

[00:12:06] Find out where you can find out more about Steve’s work on the web.

[00:05:19] “They always say in the tech industry, the web is never done.”

[00:05:45] “Research is a very important part of design.”

Special Guest: Stephen Okonkwo.

Support Sustain

Yani Bellini Saibene

Richard Littauer

In this episode of Sustain, host Richard welcomes guest Yani Bellini Saibene from Argentina. Yani, with a rich background in open source community management, shares her journey into the tech and open source world, and highlights her roles as the rOpenSci Community Manager, R-Ladies Project Lead, and Vice President for the Board of Directors for The Carpentries. The discussion dives into the challenges of funding, sustainability of volunteer-based models, and the importance of including diverse voices in open source development. The conversation also explores the economic disparities and cultural differences affecting contributors form the global south and how building strong local communities can empower individuals by providing them with tools, knowledge, and a sense of belonging in the wider world. Press download to hear more!

[00:01:47] Yani describes her start as a researcher at INTA while at university, her degree in computer science, and her initial work developing software and teaching scientists to use computing tools. She also details her career progression and her master thesis at INTA.

[00:04:49] We hear about the foundation and global expansion of R-Ladies, as Yani emphasizes community strength and the organizers’ passion. She discusses the flexibility and inclusivity of the chapters, and the support and resources shared among the community.

[00:08:56] Richard questions about the distinct roles and activities between rOpenSci, R-Ladies, and The Carpentries, which appear to have similar goals in teaching R, and Yani explains the different objectives of the three organizations.

[00:12:50] Yani lists the funders, including the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, Sloan Foundation, and others. She describes the funding models for R-Ladies and Carpentries and the challenges of sustaining such community-oriented projects.

[00:14:52] Richard inquires about the role of the board of directors in establishing post-grant funding. Yani explains The Carpentries’ membership model where institutions pay for benefits like workshops and instructor training, she mentions the perks for members, discusses the challenges of maintaining services without sufficient membership or grants, and highlights cultural and financial barriers in Latin America.

[00:20:17] Richard is curious about cultural barriers and asks for further insights into overcoming cultural barriers and the limitations of translations. Yani discusses her personal journey with the English language and its importance in coding beyond syntax and shares some data from a recent study that was done, and the paper is called, “The manifold costs of being a non-native English speaker in science,” from PLOS Biology.

[00:24:42] Yani discusses additional studies, mentioning the Linux Foundation report on English as a barrier in open source contribution and its influence on perceived expertise.

[00:25:55] Richard asks Yani about the point at which translation efforts start to yield benefits for the community and inquires about the visible impacts and dividends from investments in internationalizing materials. Yani cites examples of immediate benefits, and discusses her involvement in translating educational materials, which has supported teaching many Spanish speaking teachers.

[00:32:38] Richard raises concerns about the possibility of global exploitation through talent extraction from non-English speaking regions. Yani addresses the issue of local versus international business compensation and the ethical implications for non-profit organizations.

[00:36:30] We hear Richard’s concerns about how to have conversations about open source contributions and community building in a non-extractive way and he wonders if it’s feasible to collectively support open source maintainers financially. Yani explains the concept of three “currencies” in any job: money, heart, and brain.

[00:39:16] Yani discusses the champions program at rOpenSci, where stipends were important for participants to allocate time to the tasks and do an excellent job.

[00:41:05] Find out where you can follow Yani online.

[00:06:17] “In R-Ladies, you have enough informality and enough expertise to make this a special place to learn.”

[00:18:26] “There is little funding for maintaining what you already have.”

[00:20:40] “I have to confess that I approached the English language because I loved code.”

Special Guest: Yani Bellini Saibene.

Support Sustain

Adewale “Ace” Abati

Richard Littauer

In this episode, host Richard Littauer sits down with Adewale “Ace” Abati, a staff developer advocate at TBD and member of the Open Source Community Africa. Today, they discuss Ace’s work in building a decentralized future of the web and advocating for open protocol and Web5 technology. Ace provides insightful perspectives on the pressure of content creation, the importance of repetition for skill acquisition, and the role of community in open source project management. The conversation also touches on Ace’s ‘Made. In. Nigeria.’ project, a website that highlights the contributions of Nigerian developers to the open source community. Hit download now to hear more!

[00:00:42] Ace talks about his role at TBD, advocating for decentralized technology and Web5, an open protocol for user-controlled identity and data across platforms.

[00:01:25] We hear the difference between open protocol and open source, to which Ace confirms that while Web5 is open source, it is also a protocol that allows building on top of it. Also, Ace explains the relation of Web5 to blockchain.

[00:02:21] Ace shares his journey to Amsterdam, starting from working at Code Sandbox, an online code editor, and moving for new experiences.

[00:03:11] The conversation shifts to the topic of Nigerian developers in open source and the diaspora. Ace discusses his project ‘Made. In. Nigeria.’ highlighting the contributions of Nigerian developers both locally and abroad.

[00:04:19] Ace introduces Buzz, a recent project on the list that uses OpenAI’s Whisper for audio transcription.

[00:04:50] The discussion moves to Ace’s activities as a staff developer advocate and his hobbies, including YouTube and video game streaming.

[00:05:46] Richard questions if creative individuals in the open source community burn out faster due to the constant need for new content. Ace agrees and discusses the pressures of project maintenance and content creation.

[00:08:19] Richard talks about a designer in Australia and his YouTube video where he drew an Ibis every day for a year and what happened, then brings up the concept of repeated practice, and he asks Ace if he finds the skills gained from daily activities useful for the future. Ace sees the value in repetition for learning but doesn’t plan to repeat the exact same activities.

[00:10:46] Ace previews a new version of the Made. In. Nigeria. project website focused on the stories behind the developers of the projects listed.

[00:12:47] Find out where you can learn more about Ace on the web.

[00:06:39] “At the end of the day we are not machines.”

Special Guest: Adewale “Ace” Abati .

Support Sustain

Jacob Kaplan-Moss

Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari

This episode of Sustain explores the challenges and dynamics of funding open source projects. Host Richard Littauer and co-host Amanda Casari welcome guest Jacob Kaplan-Moss, Board Member and Treasurer of the Django Software Foundation, and Security Architect at Latacora. The discussion covers Jacob’s recent blog post on the criticism faced by open source maintainers who seek compensation, highlighting the backlash encountered from seeing grants to selling T-shirts. The conversation also explores the ethical use of open source software, the importance of supporting maintainers financially, and the complexities surrounding the definition and licensing of open source software. Additionally, this episode touches on the personal connection to open source, the struggle for maintainers to find sustainable funding models, and the potential impact of high net worth individual donations. Download this episode now to hear more!

[00:00:53] Richard highlights Jacob’s association with Django and his role as a security architect and brings up a blog post Jacob wrote about the experience of being an open source maintainer. He shares examples of maintainers who face undue criticism for monetizing their open source work in various ways and his thesis. Also, Richard endorses the Blue Oak Council and PolyForm Project.

[00:06:24] Amanda appreciates the blog’s message about the sustainability of open source and the need to pay maintainers. Jacob recounts the largely positive reception of his post but also addresses the critical and unproductive responses, and he clarifies his stance on the importance of formal definitions of open source.

[00:10:14] Richard suggests the term “Big Tent Open Source” and discusses the importance of having standards to precent open washing while also encouraging diversity in licensing. Jacob uses the term “monogamish” as an analogy for a more flexible approach to open source licensing.

[00:11:46] Amanda discusses her background in releasing various types of open source work and how it sometimes differs from web apps, and touches on the complexities of open source licensing. She asks Jacob about his concerns regarding the adoption of open source in larger systems, and he shares his experience with government technology procurement, stressing the necessity of precise definitions of open source in that context.

[00:16:40] Richard shifts the conversation to ethical considerations of open source work, specifically when software is used for harmful purposes, like state interventions. Jacob gives us a nuanced view on the ethical use of open source software and the impossibility of drawing a clear line between good and evil uses.

[00:20:56] Jacob provides insights into the Django Software Foundation’s current scale, funding, and staffing, highlighting the significant impact even a small increase in funding could have, and he discusses the challenge of scaling funding across the vast number of open source projects to achieve broad sustainability.

[00:23:16] Jacobs talks about the potential of engaging high net worth individuals and family foundations for donations as they may be more receptive than corporations.

[00:24:54] Richard discusses the groups privilege and raises the question regarding giving back to open source or to the broader community, and Jacob explains he avoids judging others’ financial decisions but acknowledges his own better-off position and the personal moral obligation he feels to give back.

[00:27:05] The conversation shifts to Richard asking Jacob how to support each other’s capitalist ventures while contributing to the open source community. He suggests congratulating individual successes and learning from them, while also being comfortable criticizing the systems and institutions that may be at odds with open source values.

[00:28:53] Find out where you can learn more about Jacob on the internet.

[00:01:40] “There’s this dynamic that happens around open source, where when someone takes money, someone always shows up to criticize them for it.”

[00:04:07] “Anytime an open source maintainer figures out a way to get paid to build a lifestyle, at the very least comfortable, we should be celebrating that.”

[00:06:46] “The community has coalesced around a definition of open source as defined by the OSI. I was like wait a minute, how are you conflating the open source community with one foundation? I don’t agree with this conflation of the OSI speaks for all open source.”

[00:13:39] “If you work in technology for the government ling enough, eventually you come to realize that every problem is a procurement problem.”

[00:18:16] “Even the MIT license is, do whatever you want, just don’t sue me.”

[00:22:18] “To reach a point where I would say that open source as a whole is broadly sustainable, I would want every single project to have that level of funding associated with it.”

Special Guest: Jacob Kaplan-Moss.

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Subomi Oluwalana

Richard Littauer

On today’s episode, Richard engages in a conversation with Subomi Oluwalana, Co-founder and CEO of Convoy, an innovative company specializing in open source Webhooks gateway solutions akin to Kong but focused on Webhooks, with features like rate limiting and circuit breaking. He delves into the intricacies of balancing a genuine open source philosophy with profitability drawing parallels with GitLab’s model and emphasizes the importance of community and transparency in open source projects. The discussion also covers Convoy’s positive reception in Nigeria, Subomi’s distinctive experience with Y Combinator, his thoughts on the evolving perceptions of open source as a business model, and advice for aspiring open source entrepreneurs. Press download now to hear more!

[00:01:14] Subomi tells us about Convoy, and he describes Convoy’s service as analogous to Kong but for Webhooks, highlighting its functionalities.

[00:01:52] Richard questions Subomi about Convoy’s open source model and what aspects remain proprietary, and he discusses the balance between being genuinely open source and profitable.

[00:03:12] The conversation shifts to community importance in open source projects, with Subomi explaining the wide range of developers Convoy serves.

[00:04:56] Richard sites Subomi’s blog post on sustainability and questions how Convoy maintains its product market while ensuring the sustainability of its open source project. Subomi speaks on the delicate balance of stewardship in open source, advocating for transparency and a clear understanding between the community and the company.

[00:08:07] Richard steers the discussion towards the role of VC funders and Y Combinator’s support for open source projects. Subomi describes Y Combinator’s growing openness to open source companies and the changing perceptions of open source as a viable business model.

[00:09:17] The conversation touches upon Subomi’s unique experience as a Nigerian company in Y Combinator, particularly as a DevTools company.

[00:11:07] Subomi shares the positive response Convoy has received in Nigeria, detailing their engagement with the local tech ecosystem.

[00:11:40] Richard asks for Subomi’s advice for those in the OSCA or developing countries looking to start an open source business.

[00:13:06] Find out where you can learn more about Subomi and Convoy on the web.

[00:02:11] “We wanted to be open source, but we also wanted to make money.”

[00:05:03] “Open Source is the ultimate form of sustainability. 92% of SaaS companies fail regardless of funding or growth. Failure of your business should not bring down my infrastructure, nor force me to redesign my system architecture when I’m not ready to do so. Providing open source software is the highest form of care for sustainability for your users.”

[00:06:57] “It’s very important to be transparent with the community with the direction you are taking. That, in my opinion is the biggest problem that we face as open source founders.”

[00:08:15] “Y Combinator has become a good home for open source companies.”

[00:09:23] “There hasn’t been any open source DevTools company from Nigeria in YC.”

[00:12:32] “The abstractions you think are needed in your organization are most probably needed elsewhere.”

Special Guest: Subomi Oluwalana.

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