Two stories of the Black experience in National Parks. From the Civilian Conservation Corps to the Civil Rights Movement, America experiments with a more racially inclusive and equitable federal workforce.

Glacier Conservancy: https://glacier.org/headwaters Frank Waln music: https://www.instagram.com/frankwaln/ Stella Nall art: https://www.instagram.com/stella.nall/

CCC Daniel: [ethereal synth starts] Headwaters is brought to you by the park's nonprofit partner, the Glacier Conservancy. Donations from listeners to the Conservancy are what make Headwaters possible. If you'd like to support the show, go to glacier.org. Beyond that, leaving a review in your podcast app or sending this episode to a friend is a big help. [Wilson’s snipe birdsong starts] Gaby: It's 1934. John has been working with the Civilian Conservation Corps in Montana for a few months now, but he's still adjusting. Coming from Brooklyn, the big trees, the bears, and being a Black face in a white community... it's a lot to get used to. But it's an exciting time to be in Glacier. President Franklin D. Roosevelt is visiting.[music and birdsong fade out] The superintendent says that this is the most important event in the history of the park. FDR is just over a year into his first term. The country is rebounding after the worst of the Great Depression. It's an election year for many Democratic senators, including Montana's Burton Wheeler. So Roosevelt is touring the country, promoting his New Deal programs, and campaigning for his party. John gets a chance to shake hands with the president as FDR travels through the park. In Two Medicine, the president is greeted by a group of 40 Blackfeet people in regalia. They sing and dance for him and give him a Blackfeet name: "Lone Chief." Then, a choir of CCC boys sings for Roosevelt. Special attention is paid to a "Negro quartet" that performs some of the president's favorite songs. That evening, President Roosevelt delivers a nationwide radio address from his room at the chalet overlooking the lake. He says that he wishes he could stay all summer. That he wishes every American could be with him today in Glacier. What FDR doesn't mention is the quietly brewing tension of race relations that casts a shadow on the entire scene. But still, John appreciates the patriotic remarks. The president says that the men are helping themselves and their families, and at the same time are making national parks more available and useful for all Americans. [opening flute notes of "Wild West" by Frank Waln start] But actually, there's something you should know: John probably isn't his name. It might be. But we don't know for certain. I'd like to tell you his name—and the names of the other Black CCC enrollees in Glacier. [string music starts] But as far as we know, these records are lost. Music: ["Wild West" plays] Gaby: You're listening to Headwaters, a show about how Glacier National Park is connected to everything else. I'm Gaby. Madeline: And I'm Madeline. This season is called: "Switchback." It's a collection of stories from the park's 20th century. These are moments when the direction of history took a sharp turn. America's story of racial inclusion and integration is long and complicated. [ethereal synth fades in] But how does Glacier National Park fit into it? The Civil Rights Movement didn't exactly come to Glacier, but years earlier, the Civilian Conservation Corps did. Careful, this trail gets steep. As Frederick Douglass said, “if there is no struggle, there is no progress.” [music fades out] If you've ever been to a national park, at least, one that existed during the 1930s, you've probably seen something that was built by the Civilian Conservation Corps, like the picnic shelters along Skyline Drive in Shenandoah, or the curving rock walls along the rim of the Grand Canyon. Even the entrance station right here in West Glacier. Their legacy echoes throughout public lands to this day. The Civilian Conservation Corps, or the CCC, was established in 1933 in response to the Great Depression. [voice and ominous music fades in] Archival Audio: By 1932, nearly one man out of four was unemployed. Working men spent their days on park benches. Madeline: FDR was elected as president to a drowning nation in his first three months in office, he enacted the "New Deal," a revolutionary slate of programs designed to help a desperate American public. The CCC was at the top of his docket. Woman #1: When he became president. That was one of his first ideas. Madeline: That's Dr. Angela Sirna. Dr. Angela Sirna: I am the lead historian for the Intermountain Region Park History Program. The Civilian Conservation Corps was created by the Emergency Conservation Work Act. Madeline: This was one of the largest investments the U.S. had ever made in public land management. Dr. Angela Sirna: It put young men to work on land restoration projects all across the country. And so the influx of funds through the CCC, remade our national parks and forest system. Madeline: For the most part, the enrollees were unmarried men between the ages of 18 and 25. Dr. Angela Sirna: The young men who worked in these camps, so they can enroll for six months at a time. They got some money for themselves, but most of the money was sent home back to their families. Madeline: The CCC boys, as they were often called, were required to send $22-25 back home of their $30 monthly stipend. But their expenses were low, because most things were provided in camp, like housing, uniforms, medical care, and food, which was hearty and plentiful, though not particularly tasty. On Thanksgiving, the boys had the option to have turkey, deer, or arroz con pollo. Dr. Angela Sirna: They got, you know, the three squares a day. With the Great Depression there was a lot of malnutrition. So it was really important that these young men were fed, to do a lot of the really labor intensive work that they did. Madeline: From an inspection report, we know the menu for a typical day in Glacier in 1934. For breakfast, the boys had the option of grabbing bread and butter, cereal, fresh milk, eggs or coffee. For dinner. They had their pick of fried liver, beets, string beans, lettuce and tomatoes, cottage pudding in sauce, more bread and butter, and tea. For supper, the options included oyster stew, eggplant, lima beans, fruit, tea, and more bread and butter. Outside of work, the boys had educational opportunities, including literacy programs and job training. Dr. Angela Sirna: So they developed some classes for them to either kind of learn things or learn specific skills or hobbies like photography, or typewriting. You know, the CCC also had organized sports and camps would play against each other, like baseball. It really helped with building up morale. Madeline: The purpose of the CCC was to put the country back to work, and to improve public infrastructure along the way. Nationwide, unemployment was at 25%, but that wasn't equally distributed. One reason was that jobs traditionally filled by Black men like street cleaners, bellhops, and garbage collectors, were now being taken by white workers struggling to find employment elsewhere. Dr. Angela Sirna: African Americans were definitely hit harder by the Depression than white people rate, so African Americans usually lost their jobs first, before, before, white people. Madeline: The CCC was in a position to address this inequality. If it was organized correctly, it could be incredibly valuable to poor and marginalized communities. But there wasn't a lot of time for organizing. Within two months after the act was signed, more than 300,000 men, tired of waiting in soup lines, were sent to over a thousand camps around the country. Dr. Angela Sirna: And they were actually able to put it into operation really, really quickly. It's quite impressive how quickly they were able to to start the CCC program. Oh, something else I should men tion. These were all men. Women were not considered at all for this program. Madeline: Shortly after the CCC got its first member on April 7th, 1933, the Corps established a separate Indian Division. Later, First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt did push through a program for women instead of the CCC. It was called the "She-She-She." But nonwhite enrollees, and non-male enrollees, are usually footnotes in this story, if they're mentioned at all. Dr. Angela Sirna: So the history of environmental conservation has largely been whitewashed. And I think looking at the CCC, and the African American camps in the CCC, is so important. And to putting African Americans back into the story of environmental conservation in the United States and the history of the National Park Service. Madeline: There was no corps specifically for Black men, because within the original legislation, tucked unobtrusively into a longer paragraph, is one sentence: "that in employing citizens for the purposes of this act, no discrimination shall be made on account of race, color or creed." Even with this language, program administrators immediately created that separate division for Native Americans. But for Black Americans, the CCC would be an experiment in racial integration. Or it could have been. [moody chords fade in] Man #1: I lived my first 23 years under that insidious doctrine of separate but equal. Madeline: In 1962, Robert Stanton had never left Texas. But that spring, all alone, he boarded a train west. Robert Stanton: I had no frame of reference what I would be going into relative to working with the federal government and certainly with the Park Service. Under the doctrine of separate but equal there was not much encouragement to travel. [music fades out] Madeline: Robert Stanton was born in 1940, in Mosier Valley, Texas, a historically Black community founded by formerly enslaved people. He spent his early years in an underfunded and poorly heated schoolhouse using hand-me-downs from the nearby white school. As a teenager, he was bused 30 miles to a segregated high school, passing several other schools reserved for white students on the way. But in 1959, Stanton headed for college, and going into his junior year, he got an offer to work a summer for the National Park Service, in Grand Teton National Park. Madeline [to Robert Stanton]: Did you have any reservations going in about accepting the position? Robert Stanton: No reservations, just a great deal of curiosity [laughing] to what I would be experiencing. I should mention that I came from very poor economic means and I had to have a minimum of $250 upon acceptance of this appointment, to get transportation to Wyoming, to purchase my uniform, and to have enough money to carry me over for the first two weeks until I got the first government check. My parents didn't have that kind of disposable income. Madeline: That $250 would be worth about $2500 now. Today, there isn't a set amount of money that seasonal employees are expected to show up with. But covering transportation and a month of living costs remains a barrier for many people hoping to wear the Park Service's green and gray uniform. Even so, Stanton found a way to make it happen. Robert Stanton: I saw a very prominent rancher there in Euless, Texas, whom I had worked for on his ranch and on his dairy farm, and he knew of my character, that he was willing to take a risk and cosign a loan for me at the Arlington State Bank there in Arlington, Texas, for $250. That allowed me to purchase my train fare and bus fare to Wyoming. So I am and continue to be grateful for the support and the faith that many had in me. Madeline: You do talk often about all the support and help you had along the way. Could you take us through what it was like arriving at Grand Teton and your first night? Robert Stanton: Yes. [laughing] I should have studied the demographics of Wyoming before accepting the job to have a little bit of a greater awareness of the environment in which I was going into. Madeline: With no money for a hotel, Stanton planned to find a Black family to stay with the night he arrived. But there were not many Black families in Wyoming in 1962. Robert Stanton: But anyway, a fella put me up overnight. He said, "young man, I'll put you up overnight. And when you get your check, you just come back and settle up." So that was that was very encouraging. Madeline: Stanton started his Park Service career collecting entrance fees at Grand Teton. It was a moment of dramatic change for Stanton, and for the country. Robert Stanton: We had limited source of news during the summers of '62, and particularly when we returned to work there in '63. And you'll recall on August 28th of '63 was the March on Washington, led by Dr. King, and many others. So, every now and then—and I underscore that every now and then [laughing]—we would see an African American visitor or visitors coming through the entrance station and we would just ask them to sort of delay their travel and give us an update as to what's going on, and tell us about the [laughing] other part of the world. And I often reflect that these individuals had been coming to Grand Teton, and to Yellowstone since they were established many, many, many years before... and never was greeted by a Black face as they entered the park. [moody chords fade in] So it was not only a new experience for me, but [laughing] it was a new experience for many visitors to see a Black face in the Park Service uniform, with a badge on! And some, unfortunately, were not pleased to see or to be greeted by a Black face. And I found that very discouraging and very, very discomforting to a large degree. Madeline: As one of very few Black people in Jackson Hole, Stanton confronted racial discrimination, especially prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Robert Stanton: Word had gotten out throughout the community that there are going to be some Black rangers in Grand Teton and Yellowstone. [laughing] Oh, gosh, word had gotten out. There was two of us African Americans, including yours truly. And for two other white rangers, we all bunked together. And we decided to drive into Jackson Hole, to have some refreshments at a popular bar [laughs] and restaurant. And the waiter came up and said, "sorry, we just can't serve you here." By law, they could do that. Madeline: It must take a lot of courage to persist through such conditions. But Stanton also credits the support of his friends, family, and mentors. After he was denied service at that restaurant, the leadership at the park stepped in and made some calls to local businesses. Robert Stanton: We will have an integrated workforce and we expect all of our employees coming in to your community would be justly treated. So after that, we had absolutely no problem. [music fades out] So I never did allow a negative to outweigh a positive in an environment in which I, I entered. Don't don't accept that you're not welcome. Then they will have no alternative but to welcome you. Madeline: Hm. Is that still... something that you keep in mind in spaces? Robert Stanton: Yes. The environmental movement, or community, still does not—and this is, again, my term—reflect the face of America. So there's work that still has to be done. Madeline: Stanton encourages young people entering the environmental movement to know and believe that they belong in the national parks and have a place here. And he quotes Frederick Douglass to remind us that it won't always be easy. Robert Stanton: All progress. All progress is born of earnest struggle. And where there's no struggle, there is no progress. So it is something that we continue to need to work on. [moody chords fade in] Madeline: For Stanton, the 1960s were just the beginning. Over the next 60 years, his career would reflect the switchbacking trail of progress the rest of the country was building. Daniel: A Hungry Horse News editorial, 1965. An individual can live in the Flathead, month after month, without seeing a single Negro. The Flathead doesn't encounter race problems, for that matter, civil rights has never been a burning issue here. Gaby: [ethereal chords start] It's 1934. John arrives at Glacier National Park. There isn't a plan to segregate the CCC camps, but there isn't really a plan to integrate them either. When he first arrives to his camp in the North Fork, there are about 200 boys of many ethnicities. All of them live in canvas tents with dirt floors. [coyote and owl sounds fade in] They drink water from a mountain spring and use an ice box to keep food cold. Each enrollee is issued two pairs of regular underwear and three pairs of winter underwear. John and the other boys do tough physical labor in one of the most isolated regions of the park. They build 18.5 miles of horse trails, as well as three bridges, and a barn. One of their more challenging projects is building a trail from Bowman Lake to the top of a nearby peak for a new fire lookout. In the fall, an inspector visits John's camp and writes a report: where his paper form asks "Colored camp or white camp." He writes 61 colored. Seven white. Further down, he clarifies that six of the seven white enrollees are currently on detached service and are living at a different camp. The form, asks the inspector if there have been any problems or incidents at the camp. "No," he writes, But he adds a little footnote that reads "citizens prejudiced against enrollees because of their race. Stores in nearby towns have placards saying we cater to white trade only." At the end of the report, when asked about the general spirit and feeling of the enrollees, the inspector simply writes, "Excellent." [coyotes yipping] Madeline: Record-keeping in the early days of the CCC wasn’t great, across the board. But information on Glacier’s Camp 8—where the Black enrollees were stationed—is particularly hard to find. [music fades] If a list of their names exists, we don’t know of anyone that’s been able to find it But some of the white enrollees nearby have recalled their experience in oral histories. Here's an excerpt from one with a man named Milton Ritter. Milton Ritter: I was 16. I lied about my age two years, and the Big Depression hit. I quit school and freshman year of high school went up into the Glacier Park, into the CC's in 1934. It was the first camp I was at this company, 1340 at Fish Creek. That fall, they transferred me down to GNP-1, we fought forest fire. They logged off the whole flat between Belton, which is now West Glacier, and Lake McDonald. All the fire-killed trees there... Madeline: Almost 100 years later, when you drive into the park on the west side, you pass through an entrance station that was built by the CCC. After that, you drive through forests that is all regrown since the CCC boys cut down thousands of burned trees between there and Apgar. Something we definitely wouldn't do today. Milton Ritter: I can't name all the locations, but there was Camp-9 right there in the Middle Fork, right close to Belton. The nearest Camp-1 halfways to Apgar. [moody chords fade in] And then camp... uh... it was a Negro boy camp way up at Polebridge on the west/northwest corner of the park. Madeline: The CCC had the chance to be something more, an opportunity to reimagine a society where everyone belonged, to strive toward a country where everyone was actually granted the rights guaranteed to them by the Constitution. In 1933, when Congress was debating the creation of the CCC, there was only one Black congressman, Oscar DePriest. [music fades out] He, along with other advocates, lobbied for a CCC without racial discrimination, one where notably, Black and white enrollees would be paid the same wage. They had a radical vision for what the CCC could be. Woman #2: In a sense, for the time frame, how the CCC was constructed or thought about was progressive at the time, and racially inclusive. It does not mean it was without some discrimination and segregation, or was equal. Madeline: That's Dr. Turkiya Lowe, principal historian of the National Park Service. After the Civil War, and during Reconstruction, hard-won opportunities for employment and upward social mobility were cultivated by and for Black Americans. But the 1896 Plessy v. Ferguson decision set up separate but equal as the law of the land and by the 1930s, racism and racial violence in America were the norm. So banning discrimination in the CCC was a big step. Dr. Turkiya Lowe: The CCC program legislation mandated that there be no discrimination based on race, which at the time, was an absolutely bold statement to make. The Civilian Conservation Corps allowed for employment of young Black males 18 to 25. That gave them steady and reliable income during the Great Depression. Madeline: But the CCC was led by a man named Robert Fechner, who took a cynical interpretation of the nondiscrimination clause. He instituted a 10% quota, capping African American enrollment in the CCC. He said their enrollment shouldn't exceed their 10% proportion of the country's population. And he went on to say that placing them in separate camps was not discrimination. Dr. Turkiya Lowe: The director of the program actually wrote in letters about the operation of the program, that segregation wasn't discrimination. And so the 150 African American Conservation Corps were segregated from the others. Madeline: In one of those letters, Fechner called the circumstances “unfortunate.” Voice Actor as Robert Fechner: It is unfortunate that racial feeling prevails in this country, but we have not yet reached that state of perfection where it can be totally avoided. Madeline: On the ground, the experiences of Black enrollees varied around the country. Glacier’s Camp-8, at Anaconda Creek, actually started out integrated, with both white and Black enrollees. But soon, men began to leave. A typical camp had 200 men. By the time the inspection report was conducted at GNP-8, there were only about 62 men left. And for one reason or another, most of those left were Black. Dr. Turkiya Lowe: So this the CCC is taking place in a general context of the Jim Crow era and encoding of white supremacy. So what is occurring in the CCC is a reflection of what's occurring in the larger United States culture, just as there are local communities and policy makers who are pushing for this racial inclusion, some were also not pushing for racial equality. [ominous chord plays]. Madeline: In 1934, segregation within the CCC was codified. In a letter to the NAACP defending the policy, Fechner said: Voice Actor as Robert Fechner: I am satisfied that the Negro enrollees themselves prefer to be in the companies composed exclusively of their own race. This segregation is not discrimination and cannot be so construed. I have personally visited many Negro companies and have talked with the enrollees and have never received one single complaint. Madeline: And almost universally, Fechner inhibited the movement of Black enrollees into leadership positions. Dr. Turkiya Lowe: I think it had some successes and failures. African Americans were still barred from holding supervisory positions in the CCC. The Black camps were run and administered by white supervisors over the leaders. And so there was no racial integration or free movement of opportunity. Madeline: The president made a weak protest and suggested that a few, quote, token black foremen be put in place. FDR Interior Secretary Harold Ickes made a stronger argument in a letter to Fechner in 1935: Voice Actor as Harold Ickes: For my part, I am quite certain that Negroes can function in supervisory capacities just as efficiently as can white men, and I do not think that they should be discriminated against merely on account of their color. I can see no menace to the program that you are so efficiently carrying out in giving just and proper recognition to members of the Negro race. Madeline: Back to our conversation with Dr. Angela Sirna, who we talked with earlier. Madeline [to Dr. Angela Sirna]: Robert Fechner... he is from the South... he brought with him certain views about race and and African Americans. Do you see any or have you seen any evidence that different leadership could have led to a different result? Dr. Angela Sirna: Whoever would have been in leadership for that program would have had a hard time in the South integrating camps. And so you see a lot of the you know, they call them Colored camps. You see these the camps for African Americans being located mostly on federal land because the federal government had more say over the location of the camps. If it was a state camp, they would have to have state approval. And so whoever they would have brought in to run the program still would have faced the attitudes from locals [ethereal synth music fades in] in various regions about how they felt having these camps near them. Madeline: Though the founding language prohibiting discrimination was notable for its time, there is no evidence that a truly integrated system of camps was ever the goal. Gaby: It's 1934. The cold Montana night settles in John's tent. It wakes him up. He looks around to see other boys moving around in their steel cots. He can see their breath clouding in the cold air. [barred owl hooting] He'll be leaving Glacier soon. There are more empty beds now. Lots of the white boys left or requested transfers. Some said they missed their families or acted up and were dishonorably discharged. It's been a long, hard summer of physical work, and unlike other camps, there are no baseball fields in Camp 8. There's no reception tent to receive company. [music fades out] And even though women are allowed to visit, none do. Pretty much no one ever visits. And the boys barely leave camp. When they do leave, it's to go deeper in the woods to work. They almost never go into town. To fight the boredom. John's taken to reading more. After skimming the stack of magazines all the boys share, he started reading Frederick Douglass. There were attempts at teaching African American history in the camp with mixed results, but at least they brought in some good books. John especially likes to read the speeches Douglass wrote. There's one that makes him feel good about all the work he's done this summer for himself and his family. [ethereal chords fade in] Douglass says that no human progress has ever come easy. Sometimes it's a moral struggle. Other times it's a physical one. But if there is no struggle, there is no progress. [Wilson's snipe birdsong]. Madeline: 30 years after the CCC came to Glacier, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It finally outlawed the kind of discrimination and segregation that young men faced in the CCC. And that legislation also created the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, or EEOC, to specifically address this discrimination in the workplace. Madeline [to Man #2]: I'm just going to dive right in with what is the EEOC? Man #2: That's an acronym for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and it is a separate federal agency, if you will, that sort of has an entity of its own. It's not part of the presidential cabinet or anything.

Madeline [to Man #2]: To learn more, we talked to a longtime federal employee, who has spent over 20 years of their career in the Equal Employment Opportunity sector. Man #2: I serve in the Office of Equal Opportunity Programs. Best way I can describe that is EEOC is about identifying whether everyone is being treated fairly in the workforce. Madeline: A lot of the legal authority that underlies this work comes from the 1964 Civil Rights Act. [to Man #2]: So what are some of those groups or identities that are impacted by the the work of the EEOC? Man #2: Race, color, religion, national origin, and sex or gender. Madeline [to Man #2]: But in the decades after '64, new laws and mandates expanded on the original legislation. Man #2: During the time, the thinking was we've got it all captured, right? That was the thinking. What else can there be? We've got this thing covered. There is no other complaints that an employee could make that would possibly be outside of those categories. Right? We found out that that was wrong. [lively drumbeat starts] We learned that age was also a consideration, a thing that we had to be concerned about. You jump to 1973, which brings in disability. Madeline: There are legal protections created for pregnant people, and members of the LGBTQ community. Man #2: So now we have this entire community that was then added on to the original Title VII of 1964 for sex discrimination protection. Again, as things evolve, those statutes get modified, amended, expanded. In many cases, an entirely new statute appears. Madeline: But these protections didn't exist in 1934 when the CCC was working in Glacier. Even in 1962, when Robert Stanton was starting out with the Park Service, it was legal for a restaurant to refuse to serve him. On paper, the existence of these legal protections is a sign that things have improved. But the law can't determine the way that people feel. Man #2: You can't mandate someone to have a certain feeling in their heart. There's no mandate for that. Madeline: That's where other initiatives come in. Man #2: Diversity is much broader than race, color, religion, gender, sex, whether someone has a disability status. I mean, it certainly is inclusive of all of those, but that definition is much broader than that. And then there's equity. A lot of folks say equality. Equality is about treating all the same. If you treat everyone the same, you're assuming that they had the same start in life. They have the same needs in the workforce. Equity then recognizes that everyone has different needs. And so the idea is to put everyone on an equal playing field. You have to first address equity. And then there is the "I," the inclusion. I always like to say inclusion is a behavior. You're treating someone like they've been seen. They've been heard. They are being understood. They're being valued. They're being acknowledged. That is inclusion. And hopefully that behavior will manifest itself into someone feeling like they belong to that particular area. And then accessibility. But that accessibility part is much broader than focusing on those with disabilities. It's really broad. Madeline [to Man #2]: A word that we've been throwing around a lot in this office and through the summer has been "belonging," so you saying that was especially exciting. Man #2: So I will say, yeah, some folks use inclusion belonging interchangeably, but I'm saying that those are two different things. Belonging is the manifestation of inclusion. If inclusion is the behavior that's exhibited—you with me? Madeline [to Man #2]: Mhm. Man #2: Belonging is the outcome of that behavior. Madeline [to Man #2]: That makes sense. Man #2: Put another way, the reason why inclusion is so important behavior is that we want people to feel... belonging in the workforce. They want them to feel like they belong. Inclusion is the behavior. Belonging is an emotion. Madeline [to Man #2]: Do you see an end goal in all of this, or what is the importance? Man #2: This area is constantly evolving, right? I don't think there is an end goal because to me this is not necessarily a destination, because what does that look like? So it's more of a journey in monitoring, than it is having some sort of final destination, if you will. Madeline [to Man #2]: Mm. How would you say things are looking today? Man #2: We're not where we were, and I would say we're not where we really want to be either, because in many cases we're still not on par with the civilian labor force. We're just not. Now, that doesn't mean that there's rampant discrimination going on and rampant barriers in place. But that does mean we have more work to do to drill down, to identify the root causes of why we're reflecting the picture that we're constantly reflecting. Madeline [to Man #2]: I mean, there's lots of benefits, of course, to having a diverse workforce. But one of them is that it makes all of our lives better to understand and empathize and connect with people that we maybe didn't expect to or think we could. Man #2: Right. And keep it in mind that the number one goal is not representation. The number one goal is barrier elimination. Because if we have barriers operating in a diverse workforce, it doesn't work. Not saying that representation is not a goal and not important—is not the priority! We have to clear out the barriers first. And when we do that, and if we do it well, we might discover that the representation will take care of itself. [ethereal chords fade in] Madeline: When Robert Stanton ended up at Grand Teton National Park in 1962, it was part of a nationwide movement. During his junior year of college, a recruiter came to his school to offer him the job as part of an effort to hire more African Americans into the National Park Service. Robert Stanton: It was a time that we elected a young president by the name of John F. Kennedy, and he appointed as his Secretary of the Interior, Congressman Stewart Lee Udall from Arizona. He was a man of strong conviction about what this country stood for. And he recognized early on that the workforce of the Interior Department did not reflect the face of America. [music fades out] So he made a decision that he would direct that the Department of Interior would recruit at historically Black colleges and universities. So as a part of that, that initiative on his part, a recruiter came to the small school that I attended. Madeline: Stanton felt that Interior Secretary Stewart Udall had a vision of what the Park Service could become even before the Civil Rights Act mandated it. Robert Stanton: Was two years, two years before President Johnson signed into law a congressional bill that we refer to today as the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So the federal government prior to '64 was not in any large measure recruiting minorities—and to a large extent, women—into into the federal workforce. But Stewart Udall took that initiative two years before the Civil Rights Act of 64. Madeline [to Robert Stanton]: Wow. What did that feel like? Robert Stanton: It was very humbling. And I certainly was honored to be recommended. So it was a totally new experience. I was honored to be selected, and to receive a letter dated April 4th, 1962, signed personally by the Secretary, confirming my appointment. And I have that original letter in my study. Madeline: The Civil Rights Act of 1964 barred racial discrimination in the federal workforce. After that, integration of African Americans into the government gained momentum. Robert Stanton: So things drastically changed two years hence. Although progress was not achieved overnight and some were reluctant, you know, to to improve diversity within the workforce. And that still is something that we confront confront today. Madeline: One marker that Stanton tracked throughout his career was the creation of new national park units that honored the country's African American heritage. When he first became a park ranger, African Americans and their stories were not significantly represented by the agency. Robert Stanton: When I donned the green and gray in '62, in Grand Teton, there are only two areas in the in the national park system that spoke specifically to African Americans. My hero, Mr. Frederick Douglass, met the National Park Service in the same year, in that I first worked again, as a seasonal. And on September 5, 1962, President John F. Kennedy signed a congressional bill into law making the Frederick Douglass home a national historic site here in Washington, D.C. Today, today, there are roughly 40 areas, 40 areas in the national park system that speak specifically to the struggles, the sacrifices, and the contributions of African Americans. Many of these areas represent difficult chapters in our history. One of my heroes and [laughing] I have a lot of heroes was the late preeminent historian, Dr. John Hope Franklin, and I have a speech that he delivered. And in his speech, he made the observation that sad places, or difficult places, such as Selma to Montgomery, Manzanar, Battle of Little Bighorn, Gettysburg, Antietam, are not places in which we should wallow in remorse, but rather be moved to a higher resolve to become better citizens. And that's really one of the main purposes of preserving these places throughout the national park system—that we can learn from them and hope that we can become better citizens, better citizens. Here we have in the national park system, areas that commemorate the rich contributions and the cultures of American Indians, of of African Americans and other minority groups that have made, you know, enduring contribution to our nation. [ethereal chords fade in] But yet we have not seen, had not seen fit to have people of this same background or culture to be a superintendent of a national park. Madeline: In 1962, the National Park Service had never appointed a Black superintendent. But Stanton’s career with the park service gained momentum after the Civil Rights Act. Robert Stanton: And I say this with the utmost of humility, and gratitude, that in 1970, Director Hartzog selected yours truly as the first, as the park service's newsletter read, "Park Service Selects its First Negro Superintendent." And that was in 1970. [jaunty marimba starts] Madeline: Robert Stanton was appointed to lead the park units around Washington, D.C. in 1970, and shortly after, he was made superintendent of Virgin Islands National Park. Over the next several decades, he held leadership positions at the regional and national level. Then in 1997, President Bill Clinton nominated him to become the director of the entire National Park Service. That summer, Robert Stanton became the very first African American to lead the agency. And to date, the only one. Under his leadership, creating a more diverse and inclusive Park Service was a major focus. [music fades out] Madeline [to Director Stanton]: Do you ever feel, I don't know, like the weight of. Being such a big part of history? You were the first African American superintendent; you were the first African American director... is that something that you often think about? Director Stanton: Yes, in the context of why am I so blessed? I wonder about that. [marimba, ethereal chords, and drumbeat fade in] Music: ["Optimistic" by Frank Waln plays, "To preserve our precious history and heritage, we must be devoted to the past, vigilant in the present, and optimistic about the future."] Madeline [to Director Stanton]: Can you talk a little bit on whether or not you think the National Park Service has a role in advancing social change broadly? [music fades out] Director Stanton: I think it's I think it's inherent in the mission. If we tell the full story and we understand how people have come together from all backgrounds to get us where we are, notwithstanding that we have stumbled, we have fallen, we have kicked ourselves, we have wounded ourselves... but hopefully we'll pick up and dust ourselves off and continue toward that noble goal of a more perfect union. So once people understand the fullness of our story, the fullness of the sacrifices the people made, it will build us as a strong people and ultimately a stronger nation. And one of the beautiful things is that there's two things that the director of the National Park Service cannot do. The director of the National Park Service cannot establish a park— a unit of the park system, nor can he or she divest the responsibility of managing that area. Once that area comes in to the national park system, that director, through his or her staff, volunteers, partners, all have the responsibility to preserve, manage, and interpret that area to the best of their ability. So we can't shy away from telling the truth. Madeline [to Director Stanton]: Did your family ever come out and visit you when you were a Grand Teton? Director Stanton: No, no. [laughing] I know when I was in Grand Teton again, remember, this is '62 and '63. We were still a segregated society. And my parents and we didn't have vacation. My parents didn't have any money. I didn't have any money. Any money I made in Teton and Yellowstone, I tried to try to save it for for college. Madeline: In retirement, however, Director Stanton has been able to visit parks with his family, including a recent trip to Grand Teton. Director Stanton: And six of my relatives out of Fort Worth drove up, including a great-grandnephew and a great-grand niece. [strings start] And it was really a joy for me to introduce those grands to to Grand Teton and to show them where it all started for me 62 years ago. And I must tell you, I was a little nervous because what if they come all the way to Grand Teton and Yellowstone and not see bison or bear or elk? The animals were out in abundance. So that made— that made grandpa look like a hero [laughs]. Oh gosh, that was something. Music: ["Runaway" by Frank Waln plays] Gaby: This show is only possible because of donations to the Glacier National Park Conservancy. Learn more at glacier.org. If you like this episode, share it with a friend who might appreciate it. Also, we'd love it if you gave us a rating and review in your podcast app. Frank Waln makes our music and Stella Nall created our art. Check them out on Instagram. Headwaters is made by me, Gaby Eseverri, Daniel Lombardi, Peri Sasnett, Madeline Vinh, and Michael Faist. With support from Lacy Kowalski, Melissa Sladek, Elizabeth Maki, and Sophia Britto. Thanks to our good friends in Glacier's Cultural Resources Program, including Jean, Anya, Keiko, Sierra, Brent, and Kyle. We couldn't make the show without them. Special thanks this episode to Dr. David Butler, Daniel Calloway, Dr. Olen Cole, Jr., Dr. Turkiya Lowe, Brady Peterson, Director Robert Stanton, Dr. Angela Sirna, and the National Archives. Madeline: Here is more with Dr. Turkiya Lowe, the principal historian of the National Park Service, talking with our producer, Daniel. Daniel: How do you make sense of the sweep of the past century in terms of racial inclusion and equality? Dr. Turkiya Lowe: So I do not think of it as a slow progression. A push and pull is occurring that whi— has resulted in steps forward and also steps back. And whatever progress is made is precarious. It could have gone a different direction. Daniel: The National Park Service... it's always struck me as sort of an interesting marker of those moments of progress, because at one moment something may have been radical activism. And then once it becomes enshrined or captured by a park unit like it was a site of activism and then now becomes a site of history, and I imagine this is something you've thought about. It's like how the National Park Service by existing, captures these moments of of activism, and then in its nature changes them. Dr. Turkiya Lowe: You really are getting at... kind of this entire notion of commemoration. What we in the future look back in the past to answer the question "how did we get here?" And the National Park Service is both a driver, an actor, as well as a reflection of our larger culture. So our mission is not only to preserve and protect, it's also to facilitate communities, partners, individuals, to tell their own story of the United States, to give us options for our future. Daniel: Yeah, and it sees the National Park Service as a dynamic thing, not a static thing. Dr. Turkiya Lowe: Yes. Daniel: I wonder if you spend any time thinking about what kinds of stories or what kinds of sites belong in the National Park Service. Dr. Turkiya Lowe: I do. Are there any voices or perspectives that are untold? And I think that is part of our mandate... is to look for and to identify additional sites and ways to tell those those stories.