Nathan Mutter and Michael Drapkin were top outside counsel at Qualcomm, Micron, and Salesforce. When the ChatGPT moment hit, they didn't wait to see what would happen to their industry. They walked away from the most profitable position in the market and built Landfall IP, an AI native patent law firm, from scratch.

In this episode they break down the full picture: why they built a law firm rather than a software product, how their Discovery Agent removes the biggest barrier between inventors and patent protection, why people want to buy trust and judgment rather than a tool that produces a piece of paper, and what the Malcolm Gladwell risk reframe actually means for any practitioner still sitting on the fence.

MLD also makes the most important market observation in the episode: only 4% of total legal spend goes on technology. It should be 40%. Kirkland and Ellis is spending $500M over five years on building an AI platform. The firms willing to disrupt themselves are already diverging from the ones that aren't.

If you're building for the legal market, selling into it, or considering leaving a traditional firm to join an AI native one, this is the most commercially honest 40 minutes on where the industry is going.

Timestamps:
00:00 — What Landfall IP actually is and who it serves
01:04 — Why they left Qualcomm, Micron and Salesforce as outside counsel
02:11 — The Malcolm Gladwell risk reframe that made the decision make sense
03:32 — Nathan's background: from building missiles to patent law
05:19 — Why they built a law firm rather than a software tool
07:00 — Who they see as competition
08:30 — The AI execution layer and what world class patent drafts look like
10:00 — Pricing and accessibility: meeting clients where they are
14:00 — The Discovery Agent: removing the friction between inventors and patents
19:00 — How the interview process works and what clients experience
23:00 — Why domain credibility beyond surface level is the trust differentiator
28:00 — The quality tipping point: when it goes from nice to have to difference maker
33:09 — The innovators' dilemma: profits per partner go up every year
33:09 — Kirkland and Ellis spending $500M on AI over five years
35:36 — How AI is expanding who gets access to legal counsel
38:20 — Only 4% of legal spend is on technology. It should be 40%.
39:03 — The human element that still closes every deal

🎙️ Taking Legal Tech to Market is hosted by Paul Church — LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space.

Subscribe for new episodes every week.

Profits per partner go up every year. That's exactly why most law firms won't change.

Nathan Mutter and Michael Drapkin were top outside counsel at Qualcomm, Micron, and Salesforce. When they saw what AI was going to do to their industry, they didn't wait. They walked away and built Landfall IP, an AI native law firm from the ground up.

In this trailer: the Malcolm Gladwell risk reframe that made the decision make sense, the innovators' dilemma that's keeping every profitable firm on the wrong side of the change, and the number that explains the entire opportunity, only 4% of total legal spend goes on technology. It should be 40%.

The firms willing to disrupt themselves are already diverging from the ones that aren't.

Full episode live tomorrow on Taking LegalTech to Market. 🎙️

First demo: four years ago. Closed: last week. And that's not the exception, that's what selling into large law firms actually looks like when you're nine years in and still showing up.

Eimear McCann is Commercial Director at TrialView, an AI disputes platform built for the full lifecycle of litigation. She joined in 2021 when the incumbent was so embedded that buyers genuinely thought they had a contract with the courts. What followed was two years of pure education, not selling, just proving that alternatives existed.

In this episode Eimear covers everything that's changed since then: why free pilots with dummy data quietly kill your conversion rate before it starts, how the buyer's questions shifted from "why are you different?" to "what AI models are you using and where is the data hosted," why headline conference sponsorships only make sense if you're Harvey or Legora, and why outbound email had its golden era and it's over.

She also talks about what great looks like for TrialView in H2 2026, the new agentic case intelligence layer on the platform, and why even if AI became more expensive than a human lawyer the fundamental tools and workflows in law have changed now forever.

If you're selling into litigation technology, building for the disputes market, or hiring into LegalTech GTM, this is the most honest account of what that commercial motion actually looks like.

Timestamps:
00:00 — What TrialView does and who signs the contract
01:56 — Stakeholder mapping in large law firm sales
03:33 — Average sales cycle: 30 days to 4 years
03:52 — Joining in 2021 when buyers thought they had one option
06:01 — How the buyer conversation changed with the AI explosion
06:20 — Old questions vs new questions: credibility, data hosting, AI models
07:59 — AI-first vs domain-first: what buyers are really worried about
09:54 — Pilots: why 95% convert and what the other 5% have in common
11:29 — Free pilots with dummy data: two mistakes in one
12:36 — Success criteria: why pilots without them almost never convert
13:05 — What a tight pilot feedback loop actually looks like
14:00 — GTM channels: what's working and what isn't in 2026
17:10 — Outbound email: the golden era is over
18:00 — Events and conferences: ROI reality check
21:21 — Headline sponsorship only works if you're Harvey or Legora
22:50 — Community building and smaller tailored sessions
24:46 — What a great LegalTech salesperson profile looks like
26:37 — Do they need to be an ex-lawyer?
27:49 — What great looks like for TrialView by end of 2026
29:10 — Is it a bubble? What's on the other side?
31:37 — Why the workflows have changed forever regardless of what happens to AI

🎙️ Taking LegalTech to Market is hosted by Paul Church, LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space.

Subscribe for new episodes every week.

The first demo was four years ago. The deal closed last week. That's not a failure, that's what selling into large law firms actually looks like.

Eimear McCann has been selling into litigation technology for nine years. In this trailer she covers the pilot mistakes that kill conversion rates, why free trials are worse than charged ones, why outbound email is over, and why headline sponsorships only make sense if you're Harvey or Legora.

And underneath all of it: even if AI became more expensive than a human lawyer, the fundamental tools and workflows in law have changed now forever.

Full episode live tomorrow on Taking Legal Tech to Market. 🎙️
Link in description.

Selling to in-house legal teams is harder than selling to law firms. They don't generate revenue, budgets are tighter, and teams are smaller. Bryan Lee built Ruli AI into that headwind anyway, and one early customer saved $850,000 in a year by replacing outside counsel spend with a 3-person in-house team using the platform.

In this episode Bryan breaks down the full picture: why word of mouth is their strongest GTM motion, how Q2 2025 shifted buyers from point solutions to platforms, what happened when they built agentic AI two years before the market was ready, and how intimate GC dinners in New York and San Francisco became their highest-converting pipeline channel.

He also talks about the geography of AI adoption in legal, why Silicon Valley legal teams are years ahead of everyone else, why Microsoft Copilot is still a first step for some buyers, and why the in-house legal market is about to absorb a significant portion of spend that currently goes to law firms.

If you're selling into in-house legal, building for that market, or hiring into it, this is the most commercially honest account of what that GTM motion actually looks like in 2026.

Timestamps:
00:00 — What Ruli AI does and who it's for
01:03 — Continuous legal intelligence as a category
02:54 — AI sentiment in legal: early adopters vs late movers
03:22 — The geography of AI adoption, Silicon Valley vs everywhere else
05:30 — Q2 2025: buyers cut point solutions, platforms won
06:47 — Why selling to in-house teams is harder than selling to law firms
07:39 — The $850K saved in a year: how Ruli frames ROI for in-house buyers
09:30 — Word of mouth as the primary GTM motion
09:48 — Outbound channels: what's working and what isn't
11:43 — Channel experimentation: LinkedIn, cold email, AI SDRs, Meta ads
13:33 — One conference generating 50% of leads for 3 months
13:33 — Partnership strategy with case management systems
16:22 — Pricing mistakes and the YC framework for finding the ceiling
19:03 — VC backed vs bootstrapped pricing strategy
20:35 — How purchase blockers became the product roadmap
24:26 — Agentic AI: built 2 years early, market just caught up
26:11 — Hiring for the in-house legal GTM role
27:05 — The one interview question Bryan asks every candidate
29:50 — H2 2026: enterprise AE in New York, customer innovation day, growth targets

🎙️ Taking LegalTech to Market is hosted by Paul Church, LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space.

Subscribe for new episodes every week.

Selling to in-house legal teams is harder than selling to law firms. They don't generate revenue, which means every purchase needs a finance team sign-off.

Bryan Lee built Ruli AI into that headwind anyway. One early customer saved $850,000 in a year by replacing outside counsel spend. That became the sales story. Not features. Not efficiency. A number the finance team couldn't argue with.

In this trailer: why they built agentic AI two years before the market was ready, what happened in Q2 when buyers finally started cutting point solutions, and why a converted sceptic is worth more than any Google ad budget.

Full episode live tomorrow on Taking Legal Tech to Market. 🎙️

Nick Morgan is number one salesperson in the door at Jalubro. No sales team behind him. No marketing function. No office. Just a 10-year-old professional services business pivoting into software, and a governance product that nobody in the market is talking about yet.

In this episode Nick breaks down what it actually looks like to build a GTM motion from scratch with limited resource. Why he's outsourcing SDRs rather than hiring them. Why AEs are his first direct hire and what battle scars he's looking for. How he segments his day when everything is a priority. And why the minute a candidate says "I did it all myself", the interview is already over.

He also talks about J10: a 10-layer governance product sitting across enterprise stacks to ensure every AI-driven and automated action is held to a singular policy position. It's the product the market hasn't caught up to yet, but the GCs and compliance officers are starting to ask for it.

If you're building a sales function from zero inside an early-stage LegalTech company, this is the most honest 30 minutes on what that actually looks like.

Timestamps:
00:00 — What Jalubro actually sells and where the money comes from
02:06 — Going to market as the first and only salesperson
03:19 — Building sales from scratch vs building inside an established business
04:31 — How to segment your day when everything is a priority
05:55 — What J10 does and who buys it
06:20 — The governance gap nobody in LegalTech is talking about
08:00 — What the pitch for J10 actually sounds like
10:11 — The shift from AI adoption to AI governance
12:30 — How the sales cycle works and where deals stall
13:58 — Stakeholder mapping and the alarm bell moment
16:00 — Outsourcing SDRs vs hiring them directly
17:00 — Why AEs are the first direct hire
19:27 — Why SDRs need an office and AEs don't
21:44 — The real cost of a bad sales hire
22:53 — What success looks like by end of 2026
24:38 — The interview question that tells Nick everything

🎙️ Taking LegalTech to Market is hosted by Paul Church, LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space.

Subscribe for new episodes every week.

The minute a contact says "I'll manage this myself, don't worry", that's not reassurance. That's a giant alarm bell.

Nick Morgan has spent a decade inside enterprise legal technology, most recently as Chief Client & Commercial Officer at Jalubro. He's seen exactly how deals die, how governance gaps become business risks, and why the AI adoption conversation in legal is already over, the new conversation is about what happens when someone uses it wrong.

In this trailer: why confidential data ends up in public LLMs, what the shift from AI adoption to AI governance means for every LegalTech vendor, and the one hiring signal that tells Nick everything he needs to know about whether someone belongs in his team.

Full episode live tomorrow on Taking Legal Tech to Market. 🎙️

First demo: 4 years ago. Closed: last week.

6 founders and GTM leaders talking straight to camera about what selling, building, and scaling LegalTech actually looks like in 2026. No script. No polish. Just the honest version.

Hosted by Paul Church, with guests:

Jacob Adberstein · Reflekt Legal
Nathan Mutter & Michael Drapkin · Landfall IP
Maryam Salehijam · Junior
Eimear McCann · TrialView
Bryan Lee · Ruli AI
Nick Morgan · Jalubro

Season 2 of Taking LegalTech to Market is coming. Subscribe so you don't miss the first episode.

🎙️ Taking LegalTech to Market with Paul Church.

Ten conversations. Ten people who are actually doing it right now.

Season 1 of Taking Legal Tech to Market features founders and GTM leaders who are building, selling, and scaling LegalTech businesses in real time. No theory. No retrospectives. The real playbooks, the real mistakes, and the real roadmaps.

Chris Parsonson on why speed is the only advantage a startup has. Abhijat Saraswat on why not every dollar is worth closing. Ryan Fitzpatrick on vetting your clients as hard as they vet you. Dave Moore on why saying yes to everything is a red flag. Theo Cox on why a flashy demo is now table stakes. Andrew Ferguson on the AI outbound wave that already crashed. Alex Baker on why shaky foundations kill scaling teams. Sujith Jose on the email problem costing law firms half their day. Nick Holzherr on the wrapper question every LegalTech founder is quietly terrified of. Nathan Killick on why a great product and a terrible pilot are easier to have together than you think.

All 10 episodes are live now. 🎙️

Timestamps:
00:00 — Chris Parsonson, Solve Intelligence
00:07 — Abhijat Saraswat, Lupl
00:13 — Ryan Fitzpatrick, Orbital
00:20 — Dave Moore, Checkbox
00:27 — Theo Cox, Wexler
00:34 — Andrew Ferguson, Wordsmith
00:41 — Alex Baker, Legal Tech Collective
00:48 — Sujith Jose, Candle AI
00:57 — Nick Holzherr, GitLaw
01:05 — Nathan Killick, Definely

🎙️ Taking Legal Tech to Market is hosted by Paul Church, LegalTech recruiter, talent advisor, and one of the most listened-to voices in the space.

Subscribe for new episodes every week.