In this episode of Taking Up Space, Cassie sits down with Dr. Sand  Chang (they/them) a Chinese American, queer, non-binary, and neurodivergent clinical psychologist, educator, and trainer with the IFS Institute. Together, we explore the intersections of Internal Family Systems (IFS), Body Trust, embodiment, systemic oppression, and the radical practice of learning to deeply listen to ourselves.

Dr. Chang shares their approach to making complex psychological concepts more accessible and human-centered, emphasizing that healing begins not through pathologizing or fixing, but through curiosity, compassion, and connection to our inner worlds.

In This Episode, We Explore:

• What Internal Family Systems really is and how it reframes our understanding of the self
• Why IFS can be understood as a “deep listening practice”
• The power of recognizing and validating all parts of ourselves instead of pathologizing them
• How Body Trust challenges diet culture, wellness culture, and externalized authority over our bodies
• The connection between embodiment, autonomy, and self-trust
• Polarization within the psyche and how conflicting parts develop
• Applying IFS concepts to addictions, eating disorders, and shame
• The impact of systemic oppression on embodiment and healing
• What body liberation actually requires beyond individual mindset shifts
• The importance of creating space for complexity, contradiction, and nuance
• Dr. Chang’s interdisciplinary work integrating IFS, Body Trust, body liberation, and astrology
• Their new workbook: All Parts Welcome: The Queer and Trans Internal Family Systems Workbook
• Their upcoming second edition of A Clinician’s Guide to Gender Affirming Care coming out next month

Key Takeaways

This conversation is a reminder that healing is not about becoming someone new but about creating enough safety to tune into the parts of ourselves that have been silenced, exiled, or misunderstood. Dr. Chang invites us to move away from rigid, problem-focused frameworks and toward compassionate curiosity. Whether discussing body trust, queer and trans liberation, eating disorders, or internal polarizations, they offer a powerful lens for understanding how personal healing and collective liberation are deeply connected.

About Dr. Sand Chang

Dr. Sand Chang is a Chinese American, queer, non-binary, neurodivergent clinical psychologist, educator, author, and trainer. They specialize in working with queer and trans communities and are deeply engaged in integrating Internal Family Systems, Body Trust, and liberation-focused approaches into psychotherapy and education.

Connect with Dr. Sand Chang

Learn more about Dr. Chang’s work, trainings, and publications here:

Dr. Sand Chang Official Website: https://www.sandchang.com/

All Parts Welcome: The Queer and Trans Internal Family Systems Workbook https://www.newharbinger.com/9781648485282/all-parts-welcome

A Clinician’s Guide to Gender-Affirming Care: Working With Transgender and Gender Non-Conforming Clients: https://www.newharbinger.com/9781684030545/a-clinicians-guide-to-gender-affirming-care/

Subscribe & Connect

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Most of us were handed a story about our bodies before we were old enough to question it. That the body needs to be controlled, corrected, made smaller - made more acceptable to the world around it. Grace Lautman has spent her career helping people identify that story, set it down, and ask what might be true instead.

Grace is a therapist specializing in body liberation and eating disorder recovery, and her work is rooted in something that sounds simple but is actually quite radical: trusting the person in front of you to know what healing looks like for them. Her framework is harm reduction, not a finish line, not a protocol, but a practice of meeting people where they are and honoring their autonomy at every step.

In this conversation, we trace the arc of how Grace got here. She grew up at the intersection of purity culture, competitive athletics as a lightweight rower, and family dynamics that each had their own ideas about what a body was for. She's candid about her earlier career including time spent at a teen weight loss camp and what it's meant to hold that period with honesty rather than erasure. The evolution from diet culture to weight-neutral care wasn't clean or linear, and she doesn't pretend it was.

We also talk about voice... how it gets buried, and what it takes to excavate it. For Grace, calling off her wedding became an unexpected portal into self-authorship: a moment that forced her to ask whose life she was actually living. That question, it turns out, is at the heart of everything she does with clients.

And then there's Stephanie (Grace's satirical "bad therapist" alter ego) which we get into at length. Humor, it turns out, is its own form of disruption. Sometimes the most effective way to illuminate what's broken in a system is to play it straight, badly, and let the absurdity do the work.

This is a conversation about what it means to stop managing yourself and start inhabiting yourself. About the difference between healing as compliance and healing as becoming.

Topics explored: body liberation · eating disorder recovery · harm reduction · Health at Every Size · purity culture · lightweight rowing · bodily autonomy · voice and self-authorship · humor as disruption

Guest Bio: Grace Lautman is a therapist and supervisor who specializes in the intersection of eating disorders and trauma. She chose the word Honor to represent her practice because she believes it is a genuine honor to be trusted with people’s stories—and she brings both clinical expertise and lived experience to that work, having also been on the other side of the couch herself.

Grace works with teens and adults navigating eating disorders, body image, and trauma, with a deep understanding of how these struggles are shaped by oppressive systems, early experiences, attachment, and the nervous system. Her approach is grounded in parts work, harm reduction and EMDR, and just as importantly, in being a real human in the room—warm, collaborative, and engaged.

At the core of Grace’s work is the belief that healing happens through safety, honesty, and attunement, and that therapy should feel human, accessible, and relational rather than rigid or performative. She is known for naming hard things clearly, allowing humor, meeting people where they are, and helping them make sense of patterns that once felt overwhelming or confusing.

Grace is also a Washington State–approved supervisor, supporting post-graduate clinicians as they work toward licensure. Outside of her clinical work, she’s a mom, former athlete, and can often be found lingering outside neighborhood coffee shops, and trying to pet your dog.

Connect with Grace:

Website: https://www.honornutritioncounseling.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/honor_nutrition_counseling

Tik Tok:

https://www.tiktok.com/@honor.nutrition

Mrinal Gokhale is an author, speaker, and consultant whose work centers on breaking down mental health stigma within South Asian communities. Her own late autism diagnosis at 25 — after years of struggling socially and academically without answers — became the catalyst for a career in advocacy, writing, and cultural change-making. She's the kind of guest who makes you think differently about the systems we all move through.

In this episode, Mrinal shares how her journalism background, a memoir writing course she stumbled into during the pandemic, and a deep curiosity about psychology all converged into the work she does now. We talk about what it means to carry cultural expectations that were never yours to begin with — and what it takes to put them down.

In this episode we cover:

• Mrinal's late autism diagnosis and what years of not having language for her experience taught her
• The model minority myth and how it quietly shapes mental health in South Asian families
• How protecting family reputation and image becomes a barrier to getting support
• Her book Taboo — a collection of mental health stories from the South Asian diaspora
• EMDR as a turning point in her own healing, and why she advocates for finding what actually works for you
• Writing as advocacy and how she uses storytelling to amplify voices that often go unheard
• 
  

Connect with Mrinal:

• Book: Taboo — available on Amazon
• Story to Sample — also on Amazon
• Find all her links and resources via her Linktree
• Linktr.ee/mgokhale
  @Mrinalg_

If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it — and leave a review if you haven't yet. It helps more people find these conversations. Come find me between episodes at @inneratlastherapy on Instagram

Carly Costello is a therapist, EMDR consultant, and social media educator dedicated to supporting therapists in their professional journeys. What started as an unexpected introduction to EMDR training became a career-defining pivot, and now Carly helps other clinicians build confidence, find their footing, and embrace the work they're already doing well.

In this episode, Carly shares the winding road that brought her to EMDR, how personal loss and big life changes shaped her as a clinician, and what she's learned about imposter syndrome — both in herself and in the therapists she consults with. She also gets real about the juggle of running a practice, raising a kid, and showing up consistently online without burning out.

In this episode we cover:

• Carly's journey from art major to EMDR specialist (and the boss who signed her up for training without asking)
• How EMDR helped her own sleep issues — and why that was the proof she needed
• What imposter syndrome actually looks like in EMDR practitioners and how to work with it
• Financial empowerment and self-worth in the therapy profession
• Practical thoughts on outsourcing, flexibility, and protecting your energy

Connect with Carly:

• Instagram: @EMDRwithCarly
• Website: EMDRwithCarly.com

Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a therapist friend who needs to hear this one. And if you're not already following along between episodes, come find me on [your platform/handle here].

Cassie returns from an extended break to launch season two of the podcast. This kickoff episode focuses on burnout amid the heaviness of what's happening the world. Cassie shares her thoughts on how disconnection and lack of community are contributing to violence and trauma, and that belonging and supportive witness are essential protective factors; systems of oppression fracture collective connection because shared power is difficult to control.

The host introduces guest Lilly Reish, an EMDR consultant and founder of Forward Healing Therapy in Wisconsin, who offers EMDR intensives, ketamine-assisted therapy, brain spotting, and consultation and business coaching for trauma clinicians. Lilly and the host discuss overlapping personal connections from Denver, Lilly’s background in child welfare and hospital social work and the burnout and moral injury she experienced in flawed systems, and how entrepreneurship offers freedom and alignment. They explore therapist burnout and the limits of fixing outcomes, including Lilly’s consultation insight that EMDR work is about aligning emotion with narrative and telling the truth, which can increase distress before it improves, and the importance of therapists being able to tolerate clients’ distress. They discuss cultural and systemic pressures toward measurable outcomes, the need to let go of outcome control, boundary-setting, and diversifying income for sustainability. Lilly shares how she builds community through large, free networking events for therapists in Milwaukee, and describes a shift in her social media use from client-facing to content for EMDR therapists who want to scale, market their specialization, diversify income, and avoid burnout, while staying mindful of ethics. The episode ends with Lilly reflecting on taking up intentional space—especially by sitting back more in the therapy room and building collaborative offerings—and sharing where to connect with her online.

00:00 Welcome Back: Season 2 Kickoff + What I’ve Been Working On

01:43 Why Burnout Feels So Heavy Right Now (and Why Connection Matters)

04:54 Meet Lilly Rich: Trauma Therapist, EMDR Consultant, and Practice Owner

08:42 Lily’s Origin Story: Child Welfare, Hospital Social Work, and Burnout

10:15 Entrepreneurship, Moral Injury, and Escaping Broken Systems

13:00 The Burnout Reality for Therapists: “We Can’t Fix It All”

14:00 EMDR Mindset Shift: It’s Not Just Lowering Distress—It’s Telling the Truth

16:37 Can Therapists Tolerate Client Distress? Fixing vs. Sitting on the Wave20:26 The “Whole Therapist” Question: Deprogramming Helper Narratives

22:17 “I’ve Been Training for This My Whole Life”: The Deeper Why Behind Helping

23:29 Letting Go of Outcomes: The Boundary That Prevents Burnout

25:16 Control vs Trust: Parenting, Protection, and Surrender

25:48 Shared World, Shared Anxiety: Collective Stress in the Therapy Room

27:35 Burnout Lessons: Caseload Culture, Quitting, and Sustainable Boundaries

31:34 Diversifying Income & Helping EMDR Therapists Grow

33:10 Networking Events, Community, and Connection as Antidotes

35:34 Social Media Reality Check: Dopamine, Inner Critic, and Ethical Posting

40:32 Pivoting Your Platform: From Client-Facing to EMDR Therapist-Facing Content

42:01 Intentional Space: What’s Next + Where to Connect

Connect with Lilly:

https://www.forwardhealingtherapy.com

Instagram: @forward.healing.therapy

https://stan.store/forwardhealingtherapy

Connect with Cassie:

https://www.inneratlastherapy.com/

Instagram: @inneratlastherapy.com

Work with Cassie in Therapy or Consultation: https://www.inneratlastherapy.com/get-in-touch

Connect with IRIS Training Collective:

Website: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/

EMDR Courses: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/our-trainings

Clinical Courses: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/clinical-courses

Free Courses: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/free-courses

Retreats: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/retreats

In this episode, our conversation centers on redefining midlife and menopause not as a period of decline but as a transformative threshold. The conversation challenges long-standing cultural narratives that tie women's value to youth and productivity. Guest Julie Cardoza, a licensed marriage and family therapist, shares her insights and experiences on navigating midlife. Julie provides midlife-informed programs, somatic tools, and nature-based healing practices to support women's personal transformation. She highlights the profound opportunities present during this stage and underscores the importance of embracing these changes with curiosity. The episode also delves into the nervous system's role and how hormonal shifts affect mental and physical health. Julie emphasizes the need for rituals and community support to navigate this transition, fostering a sense of empowerment and sovereignty.00:00 Introduction to Midlife and Menopause00:59 Challenging the Decline Narrative02:31 Embracing the Midlife Journey with Julie Cardoza05:38 Julie's Personal and Professional Journey10:48 Defining Midlife and Menopause18:20 The Importance of Rituals and Thresholds26:05 The Nervous System and Midlife26:53 Understanding the Role of Estrogen and Progesterone27:46 The Impact of Hormonal Changes on Stress and Resilience30:07 Unmasking in Midlife: Hormonal Shifts and Neurodiversity31:45 Embracing the Crone Archetype and Midlife Transformation35:18 Creating Rituals and Embracing Impermanence41:49 The Importance of Quality of Life and Presence43:29 Taking Up Space and Sharing Wisdom45:14 Connecting and Supporting Midlife Women

Guest Bio:

ulie Cardoza is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in the state of California and an EMDRIA Approved Consultant with over two decades of experience in behavioral health care. She is also the founder of Heartscapes, LLC—an integrative holistic coaching and wellness company supporting women in midlife through menopause-informed programs, somatic tools, and nature-based healing practices.

In both her therapy and coaching work, Julie helps clients move through thresholds of burnout and disconnection into deeper embodiment, nervous system regulation, and personal transformation. Her approach blends EMDR, polyvagal theory, expressive arts, and ritual to support healing at the intersections of trauma, identity, midlife, and hormonal change.

She believes midlife isn’t the end of something—it’s the threshold of becoming. And she’s passionate about helping women reclaim their voice, power, and well-being in this transformative season of life.

Connect with Julie Cardoza LMFT:

• https://www.juliecardoza.com
• https://www.heartscapesllc.com
• Instagram: @jcardzlmft

Connect with Cassie Krajewski LCSW:

• https://www.inneratlastherapy.com
• https://www.iristrainingcollective.com
• Instagram: @inneratlastherapy

In this episode of Taking Up Space, host Cassie Krajewski is joined by Erika Yourdan, trauma therapist and EMDR specialist, for a powerful and illuminating conversation on generational trauma.

Together, they explore what generational trauma is, how it shows up in our lives, and the ways it’s passed down through both family dynamics and epigenetics. But this conversation doesn’t just focus on what’s heavy — it also highlights the strengths, adaptations, and resilience that are part of our inheritance.

Erika introduces the concept of "warrior genetics" — the idea that alongside trauma, we also carry ancestral strengths that can be accessed and mobilized for healing. They dive into how therapists can identify these strengths, as well as the importance of looking for "glimmers" — those micro-moments of hope, safety, and connection.

For clinicians, this episode offers grounded, practical strategies for assessing and treating generational trauma, including how to adapt EMDR to work with complex family legacies. Erika also shares a free downloadable guidefeaturing 10 powerful history-taking questions to deepen trauma assessment through a generational lens.

Whether you're a therapist or someone curious about your own healing, this episode offers a compassionate, hopeful, and deeply insightful approach to understanding and transforming what we carry — and what we can choose to let go of.

Resources Mentioned:

• Free Download: History Taking with Generational Trauma

• Deb Dana’s Polyvagal Card Deck

• Erika Yourdan’s upcoming training on EMDR & Generational Trauma  LIVE:  August 21-22, 2025  | 8AM - 11:30AM MTN. Offered on demand after

Connect with Cassie Krajewski:
@inneratlastherapy | inneratlastherapy.com
@iristrainingcollective | iristrainingcollective.com

Guest Bio:

Erika is an LMFT-Supervisor, an AAMFT Approved Supervisor and Clinical Fellow, EMDRIA approved consultant, and an EMDRIA approved CE provider. She is a licensed addiction counselor and a licensed chemical dependency counselor practicing in both Texas and Colorado. Erika is the practice founder for The Sum of You Counseling, PLLC, in Abilene, Texas where she regularly offers EMDR intensives and specializes in complex and generational trauma, substance use, and EMDR with couples and families. Erika is an assistant professor at National University where she provides a 1:1 teaching model to students pursuing their Master’s in Marriage in Marriage and Family Therapy. Both in therapy and in teaching roles, Erika approaches with curiosity, compassion, and an invitation to gently lean into the unknown. Outside of work, Erika enjoys connecting with nature, game nights, and watching movies with her family.

Connect with Erika:

• Work with Erika: www.thesumofyoucounseling.com
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesumofyoucounseling
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erika-yourdan-phd-lmft-supervisor-lac-lcdc-a8ba58193/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sumofyoucounseling/

In this expansive and heartfelt conversation, Cassie sits down with therapist, healer, and joy-seeker Amy Rose Lynch, LCSW (she/they), whose approach to therapy and life is anything but traditional — and deeply, refreshingly human. This conversation discusses therapy, identity, embodiment, and the liberating practice of choosing joy.

Amy brings a radically honest and intuitive approach to therapy, shaped by her lived experiences as a biracial (Mexican and Irish), queer, neurodivergent, ethically non-monogamous, and highly sensitive person. Together, Cassie and Amy explore how healing happens not in spite of complexity, but through it.

Together, they explore:

• Why embracing joy (especially in small, "unproductive" moments) is both revolutionary and necessary

• How Amy integrates non-traditional practices like tarot, ancestral work, and humor into therapy

• What it means to practice therapy through a decolonized, embodied, intuitive lens

• The impact of embracing neurodivergence, spiritual connection, and ethical non-monogamy in both life and practice

• The beauty of relationships that don’t fit the mold — and how therapy can honor our complexity

• How Amy is redefining success, rest, and meaning as she enters her 40s

Whether you're a therapist, a curious human, or someone craving permission to live more fully in your truth, this episode is a deep exhale — a reminder that healing can be joyful, sacred, and unapologetically real.

Guest Bio:

Amy Rose Lynch (she/they) is an LCSW in private practice and is continually curious about all things decolonizing therapy (shoutout Dr. Jennifer Mullan), trauma healing and metabolization, somatics, polyvagal theory (she loves a flexible nervous system) and learning and growing with the Tarot as well as keeping it as real as she can. Person to person and nervous system to nervous system.

Amy is a mother, a partner, queer, neurodivergent, ethically nonmonogamous, highly sensitive, deliberate about regulating her dopamine levels, biracial (of Mexican and Irish descent) and funny to boot. Amy is a joyful survivor of childhood trauma and finds it a sacred calling to use her training and life to walk alongside others in this wide, wild world.

More from Amy Lynch:
🌐 Website: Wild Open Joy
📝 Sign up for her newsletter, book a session, or read her reflections
📱Follow Amy on Instagram: @wildopenjoy

Let’s Connect:
🧠 Learn more about Cassie and Inner Atlas Therapy: inneratlastherapy.com
📧 Subscribe to Cassie's newsletter
💬 Leave a review & share the episode with someone who needs a little joy and realness today

In this episode, we welcome Nisha Patel, a therapist, sobriety coach, and speaker, who shares her personal journey of achieving sobriety and transitioning into helping others through their own recovery processes. Nisha discusses her decision to pursue a career in therapy following her own sobriety, which has now spanned over 16 years. She opens up about the challenges of staying sober, the importance of aligning personal and professional life, and how she helps others navigating similar paths. From practical tips to deeper reflections, this conversation is a treasure trove for anyone interested in mental health, holistic wellness, and finding purpose beyond addiction. She offers insights into her holistic approach to wellness that integrates mental, spiritual, and emotional health. Nisha emphasizes the importance of personal alignment and shares practical strategies for navigating sobriety, maintaining healthy relationships, and creating a fulfilling life post-sobriety. The conversation also touches on the growing sober curious movement, societal perceptions of sobriety, and how Nisha helps individuals connect with their true selves to lead purpose-driven lives.

In this Episode, We Talk About:

Nisha's Journey to Sobriety

Navigating Sobriety and Personal Growth

Challenges and Strategies in Maintaining Sobriety

Building Trust and Inner Connection

Redefining Relationships and Social Interactions

Owning Your Sobriety Narrative

Thriving Beyond Sobriety

Embracing Sobriety and Taking Up Space

Starting the Journey of Curiosity

The Sober Curious Movement

 Holistic Health and Wellness

The Role of Caretakers in Personal Change

Creating a Life of Freedom

Guest Bio:

Nisha Patel is a dedicated professional committed to guiding individuals toward healing and leading a fulfilling life. As the owner of TheNishe, Nisha’s work is rooted in her deep commitment to empowering others to find healing and purpose. Whether working one-on-one, in group settings, or speaking to large audiences, Nisha brings a wealth of experience, compassion, and expertise to her practice.

Nisha’s holistic approach is tailored to meet each person, offering not just emotional support but also practical tools to create lasting change. With a strong foundation in evidence-based practices, Nisha is a licensed professional counselor and sobriety coach. She is skilled in Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), hypnotherapy, and brainspotting, using these techniques to help individuals navigate challenges and reach their full potential.

Connect with Nisha:

https://thenishe.com

IG: nishapatelcoaching

Support the Show by Buying Cassie a Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/cassiekrajewski

Connect with Cassie:

https://www.inneratlastherapy.com/

FREE Workbooks for Download:

https://www.inneratlastherapy.com/shop

Mental Health Professionals Train with Cassie:

https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/

In this episode of Taking Up Space, Cassie sits down with Dr. Michelle, a Denver-based physical therapist who’s redefining what healing can look like—especially when it comes to movement and eating disorder recovery.

Together, they explore what it means to return to your body through safe, supported, and attuned movement. Dr. Michelle shares how she helps clients rebuild trust with their bodies, drawing from her expertise in pelvic health and functional movement, while always centering consent, nervous system safety, and body autonomy.

We talk about why traditional approaches to exercise often fall short in recovery—and how mindful, intentional movement can become a source of empowerment rather than punishment. Dr. Michelle also shares her vision for expanding this work through continuing education, advocating for more physical therapists to be trained in eating disorder-informed care.

Whether you're in recovery, support someone who is, or work in a healing profession, this conversation offers a grounded, compassionate look at why movement belongs in the room—and how we can reclaim it on our own terms.

As a weight-inclusive and HAES® informed practitioner, Dr. Michelle recognized the need for greater pelvic floor literacy within the world of eating disorder recovery and completed training as a pelvic floor physical therapist.  She has worked with individuals in eating disorder recovery that have experienced gastrointestinal distress, constipation, bloat, distension, pelvic pain, along with abdominal wall muscle dysfunction – all of which make it hard to participate in progress toward recovery.  Likewise, she has noted a parallel between individuals with eating disorders and women pre/postpartum regarding decreased body awareness and body dysmorphia, coordination, and drive to return to exercise.  Dr. Michelle offers creative solutions to individuals experiencing these issues AND actively invites her clients to reclaim and live in their bodies.

Guest Bio: Dr. Michelle is one of the few eating disorder sensitive and informed physical therapists. She has been providing physical therapy care to individuals with eating disorders for the last 16 years and has woven pelvic health intervention into her practice for the last 6 years. Strength Within Physical Therapy & Wellness, Dr. Michelle’s private practice located in Denver, Colorado, is where she blends her background as a yoga/fitness instructor with her physical therapy skills for rehabilitation, injury prevention, and education to encourage clients to participate in movement and “healthy” reconnection with the body. Throughout her career, Dr. Michelle has advocated for physical therapy to be a recognized profession in the field of eating disorders and, in February 2020, became the first physical therapist to become a Certified Eating Disorders Specialist (CEDS) through iaedp™. Several months later she obtained the Certified Eating Disorders Specialist Approved Supervisor (CEDS-S) designation. In her free time, she enjoys reading and learning ALL the things, dancing and listening to great music, exploring the beautiful Rocky Mountains of Colorado, and chasing after her 2 kiddos who are just growing up way too fast!

Connect with Dr. Michelle:

https://strengthwithinpt.com/

IG @strengthwithinpt

Connect with Cassie:

https://www.inneratlastherapy.com/

https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/