Talking to Mormons

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”  One

Many faithful Mormons are having concerns about the Church’s doctrines, policies, and history.  What do you think the LDS leadership’s attitude are toward those doubting members?I think their attitude toward those members who are having doubts and questioning their faith was demonstrated in a recent church-sponsored, world-wide devotional for young adults.   Dale Renlund, an apostle in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, spoke with his wife, Ruth.  The address they gave on January 13, 2019, titled “Doubt Not, but Be Believing” was very unkind and uncharitable.  They told a parable about a boy who, was rescued from the sea.  Once in the boat, the boy became unhappy with the condition of the vessel.  The complaining boy demanded that he be returned to the sea from which he had been rescued. 

"If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak.”

George A. Smith

Journal of Discourse Vol. 14 pg. 217

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If he were a true apostle – a servant of the Lord – he would have showed understanding and compassion towards these members.  He would have told his audience that doubt is actually a growth-element of faith.  Using the Bible, the Renlunds could have shown that many of Jesus’s own disciples struggled with doubts and a lack of faith.  He could have quoted Hebrews 11:1 which says, “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”  And, it would demonstrate these “doubters” aren’t taking their religion for granted.  Latter-day Saints SHOULD compare Mormonism’s historical claims and doctrinal assertions against those of Christianity.   But the Renlunds say that would be a faithless thing to do.   But it is exactly what God calls us to do.  A true apostle of the Lord – John – cautioned us in 1 John 4:1 “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”    The Renlunds said that doubt and faith cannot exist in the same person at the same time.  And that doubt NEVER leads to faith. That is a blatant lie.  Here, in the Bible is an example of a man who had faith – but struggled with doubt.  Mark 9:23-24 “Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.  And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe, help thou mine unbelief.”  If we were completely honest with ourselves – every devout follower of Christ has their doubts from time to time.  That’s when we ask God to strengthen our faith as we get into HIs Word to search for answers.   The Renlunds said that doubt prevents a person from receiving answers from God. Again, that sounds contrary to the message of the Bible.  Even our Lord, Jesus Christ, had doubts in the Garden of Gethsemane about his ability as a mortal man to face the impending physical pain and torcher from the Roman soldiers.  Jesus prayed to His Father – if there was any other way.  The answer to His prayer came in the form of an angel who came to strengthen Him.  It is often when we are in the throws of our doubting and questioning, that we become open to answers from God. The Renlunds also said that doubt leads to being taken captive by the devil.    Sounds like scare tactics to me.  Try convincing the apostle Thomas of that.  Following Jesus’ death, Thomas rejected the idea that Jesus was alive again.  He said in John 20:25 “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails,

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”  One

After hearing from Timothy – Paul’s missionary companion – that some of the Corinthian Christians had questioned his authority to write his first letter of correction and exhortation – Paul wrote this second letter to them about AD 58.  This epistle would be the most personal of any he would write.  Through it, we see the heart of a man committed to the kingdom.   Paul starts off in Chapter 1:1 “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia.”   It was vitally important that those reading Paul’s words knew he was an apostle of Jesus – by the will of God.  He wanted to make sure they understood he was called of God, trained by Christ, and not of other men.  Have you noticed the early church was referred to many different ways and with a variety of names?  In this epistle, Paul refers to it as “the church of God” or “the church of God which is at Corinth.”  There wasn’t an “official” name for the Church.  Believers in Christ were known by a number of titles: like, “the Way”, “Christians”, “Nazarenes”, “Church of Christ”, “Church of the Firstborn”.   All believers – no matter what city or region they were in – were part of the body of Christ.  They were all Christians.  Neither Jesus nor any of His apostles declared an official name – because it wasn’t about that.  It was all about a personal relationship with God.    2 Corinthians 1:4-5 “Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, but the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.  For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.”  The Apostle Peter wrote in 1 Peter 4:13 “But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.”  The point is: Jesus suffered for the world – The apostles suffered for the Saints in the early church and for us now – And so are we to suffer.  But we shall be comforted by God.  How much did Paul have to suffer?  2 Corinthians 1:8 “For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life.”  Paul faced somethings that were beyond human survival and was extremely discouraging because it threatened to end his ministry.  Verses 9-10 “But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:  Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;” 

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Paul was so sure he was going to die for the gospel sake, that he pronounced the sentence of death upon himself.  His only hope was in God.  Verse 11 “Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf.”  Paul wanted them to know that he needed their prayers and those prayers were very beneficial.  Verses 21-22 “Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.”  In these two verses, Paul describes how he, his coworkers – Timothy and Silas – and the Corinthian Saints themselves were all tied together.  They had all received the Holy Spirit – an indication they all belonged to God through Christ.      It was hard on Paul to be as direct and blunt with these believers in Corinth as he had to be, as seen in 1 Corinthians.  So, in this second letter – his deep tenderness emerges as he shows forth an increase of love towards his readers.  He says in 2 Corinthians 2:1 “But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again t

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”  One

The Lord warned about false prophets who would speak in His name.  And He gave us a way to test a man to know if he is a true prophet of God, or not.  In Deuteronomy 18:22 “When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen, or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”   Let’s take a look at another prophesy Joseph Smith made and how it turned out.  Joseph had been experiencing financial trouble.  The illegal Kirtland Bank he set up had failed completely, almost as soon as it had opened for business.  Members of the Church were beginning to lose trust in him, and Smith was forced to excommunicate several of his top leadership.  But Joseph had confidence in 38-year old David W. Patten, one of the original twelve apostles, who was very loyal to Mormonism.  Patten must have seemed a safe bet for Smith to have the Lord prophesy about.  The prophecy is in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 114.  The heading says, “Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Far West, Missouri, April 17, 1838.”  Verse 1 “Verily thus saith the Lord: It is wisdom in my servant David W. Patten that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can, and make a disposition of his merchandise, that he may perform a mission unto me NEXT SPRING, in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto all the world.”   So, speaking for the Lord in 1938, Joseph Smith prophecies that David Patten in a year from then would perform a mission, that would have been fulfilled in the spring of 1839.   The problem was that Patten was killed on October 25, 1838, at the Battle of Crooked River – six months before he was supposed to go on his mission.  Some might try to defend this prophesy of Joseph Smith by saying that Patten’s unworthiness thwarted the plan of God.  But hear what Joseph Smith said about him at the funeral – recorded in History of the Church, Vol. 3 p. 171, “Brother David Patten was a very worthy man, beloved by all good men who knew him.  He was one of the Twelve Apostles, and died as he had lived, a man of God, and strong in the faith of a glorious resurrection, in a world where mobs will have no power of place.  One of his last expressions to his wife was – ‘whatever you do else, O! Do not deny the faith.’”  Surely, God would have known Patten would be killed six months after the revelation had been given.  And not have been silly enough to predict an event that was never going to happen.  Or, does the Lord NOT know everything past, present, and future after all?

The Quorum of the Twelve 1835 Mission

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Latter-day Saints have to remember the promise of the Lord as recorded in their own scripture.  Written on November 1, 1831 as an introduction to the Doctrine and Covenants;Section 1- 37-38“Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.  What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth shall pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.” Here we have a claimed statement from the Lord that there are no excuses.  And the prophecies and promises made by Joseph Smith on His behalf will all be fulfilled.  So far, none that we have encountered have remotely come to pass.     Since Joseph Smith failed repeatedly in his ability to function as a legitimate prophet of God, he is to be forever seen as one who speaks presumptuously for the Lord and is in reality

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”  One

What became of the papyrus scrolls – that the Book of Abraham was translated from.

Once Joseph Smith was killed in 1844, the papyri collection remained in the possession of his widow, Emma.  Remember she refused to follow the leadership of Brigham Young, and remained in Nauvoo with her children while the Saints moved west to the Utah Territory.

In October of 1880, the Book of Abraham was included in The Pearl of Great Price which was officially canonized at the Church’s semi-annual General Conference in Salt Lake City. 

The Introduction to the Book of Abraham reads, “The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”

Romans 1-3 – Come Follow Me

https://talkingtomormons.com/podcast-player/4434/romans-1-3-come-follow.mp3

We will now begin to study the epistles in the New Testament.  The manual introduces them by saying, “The Bible epistles are letters written by Church leaders to Saints in various parts of the world.  The Apostle Paul wrote most of the epistles in the New Testament – starting with Romans and ending with Hebrews.  His epistles are organized by length.  Although Romans is the first epistle in the New Testament, it was actually written near the end of Pau’s missionary journeys.” 

Paul boldly declares his testimony by saying in Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”   

Paul teaches us that everyone has received a knowledge of God.  Romans 1:19-20 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”  One

What became of the papyrus scrolls – that the Book of Abraham was translated from.

Once Joseph Smith was killed in 1844, the papyri collection remained in the possession of his widow, Emma.  Remember she refused to follow the leadership of Brigham Young, and remained in Nauvoo with her children while the Saints moved west to the Utah Territory.

In October of 1880, the Book of Abraham was included in The Pearl of Great Price which was officially canonized at the Church’s semi-annual General Conference in Salt Lake City. 

The Introduction to the Book of Abraham reads, “The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”