Tankespjärn with Helena Roth

Do you dance? I asked Özlem, only to have him ask how I defined dance. I didn’t give him an answer, because for me, dancing is so much more than ‘dancing’… (ok, bear with me for just a while longer:)

“I had a coach who used to say ‘Dance with whatever comes knocking on the door’.

Ever since, I've been using dance as a metaphor, as an inspiration, as an intention. How do I want to show up in life? Well, dancing! There is the rhythm, there is the going with the flow of things. There is the following and the lead, or that I'm totally doing this on my own.

And if I'm dancing with somebody and they do something surprising, what do I do? Do I get offended and say ‘No, you're not supposed to do that’. Or do I go ‘Oh my God, what are you doing? This is so much fun!’.

Dancing. A metaphor for life.” ~ Helena

If you’ve listened to me and Özlem before, you know we’re on the hunt for an improv-class, but in this episode, I invite Özlem (and his wife) to tag along to a lindy hop-beginners taster, because there are many similarities (in my mind) in how you dance lindy hop and how you do improvisational theatre.

As our conversation progressed, I fretted a wee bit whether or not I should – could – would – dared – to share a story from a recent party I attended, where I danced with life in a way I’ve not done before.

How? Well:

“[Reading a piece of erotica I’ve written, at a party,] is part of me dancing with life. It is part of me owning that side of me, the side of me that has lust –the side of me that is sensual and that wants the sensual– in a way that I haven't before.” ~ Helena

I didn’t read the actual piece, during our meandering conversation (perhaps I should record it?), but as always, I am surprised at where our meanders takes us. I mean, I did not plan on sharing this story, for sure. But… it just seemed right, and it invited us into a continued meandering down a very sensual path, so… if you feel like some sensual tankespjärn, I invite you to dance with us!

Links:

Find Özlem Tan on LinkedIn

Tisdagsgruppen with Malmö Impro

HepTown and Cats’ Corner, two organisations providing opportunities to dance Lindy hop/Swing in and around the Malmö-area in Skåne

Dans på stranden (dancing at the beach)

Some Lindy-inspiration

Doing Gentle with an Edge, e/audiobook by Helena Roth

Twilight retreat with @wildherbarista and @whentheblackbirdsings_

Wildhaga Sanctuary/Fiskabäck Österlen

Process-oriented therapy with Dominic Bosman Venter

Danae Mercer on Instagram

Kamratposten

Parable of the sower by Octavia E Butler

The quote from Parable of the sower from the Tankespjärn Instagram

It fascinates me how me and Mandell cannot speak without dropping at least a douzen book titles/recommendations or so. This episode is not different in that regards, but before we went all booking, I shared a story of the adventures of Pop the cat, who was definitely cheating on me during the summer, while on vacation in Vejbystrand where my mom lives.

(Can a cat cheat on his owner? Well. Yeah. Listen and find out how!)

The type of pets that are common to an area, and how those pets are tended/kept, shifts. There’s a cultural aspect to this, in much the same way that cooking provides a lens into a culture. Turns out, Mandell always tries to get to a cooking class while travelling, even though he also says Cooking is not my thing. Well, you could have fooled me…

“For some reason a cooking class gives me an advantage on the culture. You learn so much from the food and I especially I love the cooking classes where they bring you to the market and show you how they shop.” ~ Mandell

Then our conversation came upon a shift.
From the short arc of time (a human life span; cats and dogs, travelling and cooking classes) to the long ones. The really long arcs.

“The aspect of the long arcs is one of my favourite things. A human life is a really small arc of time. It's like nothing, but the long arcs of time… what was it like a thousand years ago, 10,000 years ago, a hundred thousand years ago? When you look at the long arc of time, what happens? What shifts? Opening up to the fact that a human lifespan is a very short, very brief moment in time, and what am I doing with that? Am I influencing the long [ongoing] arc? How am I influencing it? Can I influence it?” ~ Helena

And boom. There we went, down a deep rabbit hole, asking questions, challenging ourselves, providing tankespjärn for ourselves, as well as, hopefully, for you, dear listener.

Links:

Find Mandell Conway through his websiteGiving is like or onLinkedIn

Pop the cat can be found on Instagram

All Reddy-conversations from season two (on Spotify)

The AKIMBO workshops, all but altMBA running for the last time in the fall of 2022

The signature of all things, a book by Elizabeth Gilbert

Range - WHY GENERALISTS TRIUMPH IN A SPECIALIZED WORLD by David Epstein

Big Magic, also by Elizabeth Gilbert

A failure of curiosity is what it is, Kate said towards the end of our fourth conversation… and what she’s not pointing to is us, as I am sure there’s never been a Tankespjärn-episode with as many questions, ever.

Questions on curating life:

“I curate my life. It's on me to make.

What do I want my life to be? How do I want it to be, where do I want it to be, and with whom do I want it to be? How can I set it up in such a way? Do I dare dream? And what are those dreams? Am I making inroads on some of those dreams?” ~ Helena

In life, friendships play an important part. So, there are questions on friendship:

“What is a friend? What am I looking for from a friend? What do I require from a friend versus what do I enjoy from a friend? And what kind of food do I need? What nourishment do I need from friendship? Because I'm feeling like it's changed.” ~ Kate

And to curate my life, becoming conscious about ‘the system that is me’, body and mind alike, is a factor. So yeah, questions about that too:

“How little we are trained to consciously sense into: Where am I right now? What does my body need right now? What's my state? We don't do that.” ~ Helena

Now… I profess, I do love questions. And yet, all questions aren’t necessarily of service all the time. How they are worded and asked, the energy of them, as well as current circumstances, including my state of mind, all impact and influence the level of service I might, or might not, gain from a question asked.

But to a large part, I still say that if you are curiously exploring life with the help of openly asked questions, chances are you live a life filled with life, and don’t run the risk of suffering from a failure of curiosity.

…and I promise, there’s even more questions in the episode, so press play and tag along for even more tankespjärn.

Links:

Twilight retreat with@wildherbarista and@whentheblackbirdsings_

Me and Özlem on anarchy in episode 62 andon improv in episode 67

Ishmael and two more books by Daniel Quinn

Jocko Willink author of the book Extreme Ownership and host of the Jocko podcast

Picking up on the thread from our last conversation, Bella asks me about the quotation I’d just handed in back then… which has us go down an interesting route of how to face rejection. I am better at facing professional rejections, like getting a No on a quotation, or, for that matter, not really getting any response at all. Personally, I would likely have a harder time, and yet… all of it is based on context. (Again. Context is queen, for sure!)

“Yes lives in the land of no, which has me curiously approaching no’s.” ~ Helena

Yes lives in the land of no, is a statement I’ve heard Steve Chander say over and over again, and it’s really helped me.

“One of the ways I've been playing with No’s [mostly professionally] is by asking people questions and clearly stating that I welcome any clear response.

Give me a Yes, and I'll be thrilled. Give me a No, and I'll be thrilled.” ~ Helena

I’ve been using it more deliberately in professional settings though, and as I sit here typing this episode description, I realize that’s been a safer playground of sorts for me, and it’s time to play more with yeses and no’s personally/privately as well.

“That is why I like these conversations because sometimes you just formulate it when you talk to a friend.” ~ Bella

This is one reason why being in conversation with Bella is helpful to me. And to her.

I hope it is to you too?! That you are a part of this (these) meandering conversation(s) amongst friends, which now and again have you formulate something out loud that suddenly bring about clarity, an insight, or for that matter, a piece of tankespjärn to chew on for a bit.

Links:

Bella (and some more of her music)

64. Discernment is flexible and judgment is rigid | with Bella

Steve Chandler

Esther Perel on eroticism

Doing Gentle with an Edge, e- and audiobook authored by Helena Roth

Twilight retreat with @wildherbarista and @whentheblackbirdsings_

Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estés

Michael Pollans books

Hur kan vi? – a Swedish pod

Anni Pohto everywoman (Selfies version)

AKIMBO workshops

“I am responsible for me and my actions.

You are responsible for you and your actions.” ~ Helena

What would it be like if there was more of this in the world?

No more You make me [fill in the blank]… (Or less of it, at least.)

More I get [fill in the blank] when… instead.

Where [fill in the blank] might be angry, happy, sad, upset, elated, excited, triggered.

The latter provides a space for my beloved mellanrum, i.e. Swedish for ‘the space in between’. The room to pause, sense into, act rather than react.

There’s a next level available too, where There is [fill in the blank] when… becomes possible. Giving even more room to disengage, or, perhaps more an opportunity to not identify so strongly to whatever wants to happen in the moment. To let there be Anger. Happiness. Sadness or Upset. Elation, Excitement, Triggering. Desire, Chock or Fear.

“All emotions are players on a stage, and a story without a villain is kind of a boring story, isn't it? And if it's all villains, it's not fun either.” ~ Luke

All of them welcome. All of them valid. In the appropriate context, and it’s all about context! If emotions weren’t vilified, or ridiculed, belittled, or even worse, shamed, would it be easier to dance with them then? Would it be easier to take responsibility for my experience, and honor my boundaries with greater ease if I simultaneously own what I feel while not identifying as what I feel?

“Who do I want to be? What's the culture, what's the quality of the engagement and the connection? What do I want to foster? What do I want to see more of in the world?

Yes! Be that thing.” ~ Helena

Who do you want to be?

Luke echoed me after my rant, repeating the question back to me… and reflecting on this our third conversation, the difference between Being and Doing makes itself known to me. ‘Who do you want to be?’ is the question, not ‘What do you want to do?’.

Perhaps that tankespjärn can be your companion for the day? Or maybe you’ll find another one, while listening!

Links:

Find Luke Aymon on Twitter

Spökguiden with Jacques Schultze

First episode with Luke where we spoke about gaming

Ain’t it awful, from Eric Berne’s book ‘Games people play’

Buddhas by the Roadside

Deep Dive with Eyal Shay, podcast episode with Rachel Clifton

Tankespjärn on Patreon – join us for equally rich conversations on a monthly basis

In our third conversation Özlem helped me see something about myself that I’ve never noticed before. I’ve always thought the common thread to everything I’ve done in life, at least from a professional standpoint, has been about change and improvement. I’ve called myself an Agent of Change for many years by now because of that belief.

But Özlem made me see that it’s not the change/improvement itself that’s the attraction for me, that’s not the pull. It’s the people. The connections. The human-to-human interaction that – YES! – gets to be of higher quality when the systems around are conducive for it, when they work as well as can be (and they can always, always (!) be improved).

A lot of this conversation centres on this. On human connection. On finding a path… or perhaps, simply finding the next step, and preferably, it’s one that thrills you:

‘We just need this:

What thrills you now?

What do you wanna learn right now?

What would entice you right now?

What tickles?

Ooh, I wanna go there!’

~ Helena

Do you commute to work? Perhaps have a car for it? When did you last buy new tires for it? Ever change oil, pump the tires, give it a wash now and again? Perhaps you’ve even upgraded your car now and again, gotten a better one?

Now, imagine you are the car. When did you last get yourself a new set of tires? Get a thorough wash, and checked the oil? Do you treat yourself as well as your car? Make sure you have what you need in order to operate as good as you can?

What would this look like for you, personally?

Oh. So many questions! And I could come up with many more. But I won’t. I’ll leave you to join me and Özlem, talking about personal development, finding your own path, as well as starling murmurations, the most beautiful note ever played (by a cello) and much more. Plenty of tankespjärn as always!

Links:

Find Özlem Tan on LinkedIn

Information about Helena’s services, such as coaching

Malmö improv meet up-groups: Malmö Improvisatorium and Improv – The Improvisational Theater

The Suzuki Method

Learning – ‘the first twenty hours’

Fac ut portem Christi mortem, from Stabat Mater by Jens Bragdell Eriksson

Starling murmurations

#skolvåren (Swedish website)

The Tankespjärn-community – please join if these conversations entice you!

The monthly meet-up on CELEBRATION

Mandell has some serious friendships going on, let me tell you. His story blasted my preconceived notions right out of the water, and I absolutely love it when that happens! You see… I have it in my mind that men are ‘worse at friendships’ than women.

Laying down flat on my back, showing you my exposed neck, coming clean as a person with prejudices…

I KNOW RIGHT?!

What a horrible person I am.

Or? Maybe just honest.

(At least I know this about myself.)

Anyway, what blew me out of the water, was to hear Mandell’s story of his brotherhood of 15+ men, who’ve stuck together (at least) since high school, which in my estimate means somewhere between fifteen and twenty years (arghhh, am I putting my foot in it now Mandell? Again?!).

And no no no – not a yearly get-together or anything like that. Intense connection, with a running daily chat-thread going AND meet-up’s, more casual, as well as all-hands-on-deck for bachelor parties, weddings, baby showers and the like.

“Through the years we have incredible history together.

The places we've traveled, the things we've done. We've spent many, many hours, literally just sitting on the steps of one of my friends' houses. And that was the highlight of the day because we were doing it together, hanging out and laughing. So it's a unique relationship for sure.” ~ Mandell

It absolutely thrills me to hear this, and to experience their shared love for each other, because it’s apparent when he shares their story.

We didn’t start with the brotherhood coming together in Colombia though. We got there via my fiftieth birthday celebrations, because they have been (and will continue to be – and if that intrigues you, give us a listen and all shall be revealed!) equally good representations of friendships and coming together.

“Life is better together.” ~ Helena

Perhaps there’s some tankespjärn for you there. In your friendships, your relationships? How do you give them the energy they need to ensure you live as rich a life as you wasn’t to?

Links:

Find Mandell Conway through his website Giving is like or on LinkedIn

David Grundelius, previous owner of my guitar

Buddhas by the Roadside

Fink different at Do Lectures with Graham Fink

Range - WHY GENERALISTS TRIUMPH IN A SPECIALIZED WORLD by David Epstein

The Master and His Emissary by Iain McGilchrist

Process-oriented therapy with Dominic Bosman Venter

Simone Seol on marketing

Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estés

Words of memory for my paternal grandmother (in Swedish)

Does a mastermind-group on ‘The Inner Ethics Committee on Marketing’ sound interesting to you? Contact me here!

Season three, round three of meandering conversations means we’re at the midway point, and somehow it always catches me by surprise.

As always, me and Kate meander quite significantly, and if you’ve been counting Kate-rants, there’s a couple in this episode too. Her rants don’t really feel like rants to me though, they are more musings that are allowed to meander and take form. Like her sharing the story of celebrating Canada Day on July 1st, prompting her to the following question:

‘What is the notion of a nation? What's it for? What is this container’s purpose?

Questions matter.

About the time I was told by a teacher that I was not allowed to ask the question #WhySchool, because, in her view, schools are inevitable. Me questioning what she deemed inevitable, obviously shook her quite significantly. Not surprisingly, I disagreed with her. Schools aren’t inevitable, they are a human construct. Learning though, is inevitable. It comes with the territory of being human (which is a way to narrow framing as well. Does it comes with being alive? All animals learn as well, don’t they? Do plants? Fungi? Microbes?).

About how just asking someone to tell you more about a belief of theirs can be met with the same response as the teacher I encountered.

How we are demonizing answers to certain questions, for sure, but even worse–and this scares me–we’re demonizing the asking of the question in the first place. And that’s not a road I want us–culturally, together–to venture further down on.

‘How can I share what I know, what I see, what I experience, what I fear, what I'm concerned about in such a way that you can have a better chance at receiving it?’ ~ Helena

Which brings us to the ability to have sticky conversations. Those that are preferably had in person, face-to-face, in the flesh. The one’s where I am not even sure that I know my own stance, and thus perhaps shy away from even more. Even though what’s needed, from where I stand, is more of them. About what’s important to me, to us. How we are to live together. What we do when there’s strife and angst and disagreement and perhaps even aggression.

Sticky!

Join me and Kate as we meander past a number of sticky topics, with curiosity, openness, and quite a bit of playfulness thrown in too. I think that helps, especially when encountering a hard-to-swallow piece of tankespjärn or two.

Bella has a knack of asking poignant questions that open a wide expanse in front of me, or us, and off we go. Down deep, continuing on the theme from our last conversation.

During this our second (recorded) conversation it became clear to me how I’ve come to a place where it’s much easier for me to stand my ground, feel centered and secure, in my skills, my experience, my abilities, in professional settings, and how on a personal level, I’m experiencing something quite different.

‘I know how to express my professional needs.

Personally, it's like there's a gigantic slab of concrete on top of my needs. They can't even get up because they're stuck underneath this heavy load that’s keeping them from being expressed. And it's all mental beliefs, like shame, like unworthiness, like oh, good girls don't do that, good girls don't wanna do that. All of that stuff.’ ~Helena

It's not all that bad, of course, but if I extrapolate and enhance, that’s the feeling. Like there’s a mental vice holding me down, hemming me in, stopping me from speaking my needs, my truth, using my voice, my limbs, my body in ways that I want to – an inner signal that won’t get transformed into physical expression because some part of me won’t allow the transformation.

Having just had a moment of exquisite clarity professionally, I am anchoring the sensation, remembering it with all of me, so that I can use it as a guiding light for myself in personal/private settings – because I know how to be crystal clear in my communication and connection.

One of our meanders had us dancing with two other familiar concepts, discernment and judgment.

‘Discernment is flexible and judgment is rigid.’ ~Bella

Now, I won’t say more than that… in the hope you will press play and find a tankespjärn or two in this episode!

Links:

Bella (and her music)

Process-oriented therapy with Dominic Bosman Venter

57. Role models in our own relations | with Özlem Tan

Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estés

The No Mind-festival at Ängsbacka

Playful tantra with Charlotte Cronquist

Twilight retreat with @wildherbarista and @whentheblackbirdsings_

Amazing Space by Laura Bonné (organic cosmetics)

Tankespjärn on Patreon – join us for equally rich conversations on a monthly basis

Just before me and Luke had our second conversation (this one!) I listened to him in (a podcast-) conversation with Eyal Shay on pain, which made me curious.

‘Pain is generally a signal that contains information worth listening to, worth parsing and figuring out ‘Well, what is it trying to tell me?’ Because if you figure that out, it's more likely that you're not going to have it again.’ ~Luke

My experiences with pain are luckily not even close to what Luke’s gone through (lucky for me, that is), but pain, and everything else we experience and feel, are most definitely signals. For us to pick up on, or not, as is the case with most (everyone?) who ‘burn out’.

Luke identifying with being a Helper, possibly both by trait and conditioning, learned to carry burdens way too heavy for him, and as a result, developed a chronic disorder which has caused him a lot of pain.

‘Shared burdens really make it easier for everyone.’ ~Luke

And I wonder… sitting here, juggling all the contents of a life, what with family and friends, work and free time, if perhaps the message contained in lots of the pain that we – you, me, us – experience, is that we should be asking for help. For assistance. Cooperation and collaboration. Instead… we are amplifying our pain by trying to go it alone, struggling, fearful of asking for help, shaming ourself for being needy, weak, sub-standard.

And everything I do, causes a ripple effect.

If I hold it in, contain the pain, try to deal with it myself, perhaps self-medicate, turn to exercise, drugs, gambling, sex, anything at all, to dull the pain. It ripples.

If I don’t hold it in, letting my pain out in such a way that I, in turn, inflict pain on others… It ripples.

‘What I do ripples and what I don't do ripples.

How I show up ripples, how I don't show up ripples.

It's like positive and negative space. There's the things I do, but then there's the stuff I don't do, that's kind of the negative space on a painting or something. And those [negative spaces] could be really impactful as well.

What do I put my focus on?

How am I addressing people and when and why, and when don't I?’ ~Helena

Questions worth pondering, and perhaps when you tag along with me and Luke as we dive into this and much more, you’ll receive a morsel or two of tankespjärn that’s just what you need right this moment.

Links: