The telco industry loves to differentiate on technical specs—five nines of reliability, fastest 5G, most coverage. But Gabriela Styf Sjöman, Managing Director of Research and Network Strategy at BT Group, has a radically simple framework that cuts through the noise: every technology decision comes down to two questions—does it help us make money or does it help us save money?

In this episode, Gabriela breaks down BT’s dual AI strategy: “AI for networks” (using AI to optimize internal operations) and “networks for AI” (building networks that support customers’ AI workloads). We discuss why “best network” marketing is dead, how telcos need better customer segmentation beyond just “consumer vs. enterprise,” and why the biggest barrier to AI adoption isn’t technical capability—it’s cultural change. If you’re a telco exec struggling to get value from AI investments, this conversation will reframe how you think about technology strategy.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

Listen now to hear:

• Why telcos must prioritize commercial transformation to move up the value chain [04:00];
• BT's dual AI strategy for internal operations and customer service [05:49];
• The cultural shifts needed to embrace process redesign and customer-centric thinking [09:45]; and
• Why "best network" marketing is dead and what telcos should focus on instead [11:49].

Links and Resources:

• Watch Gabriela’s talk and our panel from TelecomTV’s 2025 DSP Leaders World Forum on BT's AI strategy and why telcos must focus on products over technology.
• Check out Gabriela’s TelecomTV interview on how AI-powered network APIs will help telcos become insights-driven providers and why telecom standardization needs a revamp.
• Read my blogs, The modern telco and To get AI value, shift left (and eliminate jobs), to learn how AI-driven transformation can improve telco profitability and operational efficiency.
• Learn more about BT Group's network strategy and AI initiatives at bt.com.
• Looking for new ways to generate revenue? Learn how hyper-personalization can unlock revenue streams through advanced ML platforms like Totogi’s PlanAI product.
• Find out more about Totogi by meeting with us at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Forum in Düsseldorf, Germany on October 23-24. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Want to try albondigas Mexicanas, also known as Mexican meatballs?  Here’s a recipe to get you started.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
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The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Gabriela Styf Sjöman is a global executive with extensive international business experience in the telecom and IT industries. She has held executive positions in numerous multinational organizations across functions such as strategy, technology, business, and sales. She is currently Managing Director of Research and Network Strategy at BT Group, where she oversees network strategy, industry standards, technology research, and research commercialization. Prior to joining BT Group Gabriela held various executive positions such as Chief Strategy Officer at Nokia, Deputy Chief Operating Officer and VP Head of Network Services at Telia Company, VP Head of Networks and TI Labs at Telecom Italia, and numerous positions at Ericsson spanning Technology and Business.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

MIT research shows that 95% of enterprise AI projects fail, and the culprit is likely the daunting task of managing business context. When AI doesn't understand the full picture of your business, it makes poor decisions and delivers disappointing results that leave operators questioning whether AI can deliver real value.

In this "What's Up with Totogi?" episode, I'm talking with Michael Walker, who leads Enterprise AI Deployment Strategy at Totogi. He's focused on what we believe is the right approach for telcos: vertical AI, built specifically for telcos, that understands the industry and your business from day one. We dive into why most telcos are experiencing "context chaos" with their AI deployments, how Totogi's ontology approach eliminates the guesswork, and how our BSS Magic can turbocharge ancient legacy systems without expensive migrations, data aggregation, or swap offs.

Listen now to hear:

• How context engineering makes AI work at scale [05:00];
• How Totogi's ontology framework manages context across thousands of AI agents without operational chaos [07:49];
• Why you don't need data lake migrations to make BSS Magic work [10:24]; and
• A customer example of building a complex sales agent in just four weeks [13:09].

Links and Resources:

• Check out my blog, Context is EVERYTHING, to learn how context engineering can turn expensive demos into successful enterprise AI.
• Read MIT’s report, The GenAI Divide: State of AI in Business 2025, on why 95% of enterprise AI projects fail.
• Learn about Totogi's BSS Magic and its telco-specific ontology approach.
• Watch our conversation from MWC25, where Michael and I discuss how BSS Magic uses AWS Bedrock to bring AI intelligence to legacy telecom systems, solving vendor interoperability challenges that have held telcos back for decades.
• Check out how Totogi's AI-powered BSS Magic reduced CloudSense's TM Forum API certification from 26 months to four weeks.
• Watch my interview with TelecomTV, where I discuss how Tier-one operators are using BSS Magic to achieve dramatic results with BSS Magic AI, including 15% faster sales quoting and reducing support tickets from five hours to 15 minutes.
• Learn how multiple Tier 1 telecom operators are using Totogi's BSS Magic to achieve 80% faster order processing and 75% cost reductions by deploying AI agents across existing legacy systems without costly replacements.
• Find out more about Totogi by meeting with us at TelecomTV's AI-Native Telco Forum in Düsseldorf, Germany on October 23-24. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Watch this Scandinavian mother explain why it’s “normal” to see babies nap outside in Sweden and the health benefits they believe it provides – leaving them outside in temperatures as low as −13 °F / −25 °C!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Michael Walker leads enterprise ai deployment strategy at Totogi. He has extensive experience deploying enterprise AI solutions across industries including telecommunications, enterprise technology, automotive, and oil and gas. At Totogi, Michael leads the company’s BSS Magic initiative, helping telecom operators adopt AI at scale by leveraging BSS Magic’s universal ontology layer to accelerate transformation and unlock new business value.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

MVNOs are having their moment. From Ryan Reynolds with Mint Mobile to the Trumps launching Trump Mobile, everyone wants in.

But the truth is it’s tough to be an MVNO. MVNOs who pay millions in licensing fees struggle to actually go live because incumbent MNOs work overtime to squash them. Take Nigeria - regulators handed out 46 MVNx licenses and collected serious cash from hopeful startups. The result? Zero MVNOs have successfully launched to date.

In this episode, I’m talking with Allan Rasmussen, CEO of MVNO Services and one of the world's leading MVNO strategists. He has witnessed hundreds of MVNO dreams crash and burn while also guiding success stories that cracked the code. We dive deep into the regulatory challenges facing MVNOs worldwide and Allan's strategies for navigating the chaos.

Listen now to hear:

• How the Nigerian MVNO market has been stalled by regulator-MNO power struggles [03:31];
• How MTN's pivot to "network as a service" might be a strategic game-changer [10:31];
• Why MVNOs should form alliances when battling regulatory roadblocks [12:55]; and
• How countries like Canada, India, Pakistan, and Thailand are creating barriers to MVNO competition [13:54].

Links and Resources:

• Allan does a great job keeping the MVNO community up to date on all the happenings in the MVNx space. Follow him on LinkedIn.
• Read TM Forum’s article, “What’s fuelling the rise of new MVNOs?,” to learn how new MVNOs are surging due to eSIMs, MVNE platforms, and cloud-native technology like Totogi's multi-tenant charging system that enables faster MVNO deployments.
• Check out my blog, “MVNOs don't need MVNEs (and MVNEs’ loss will be MNOs’ gain),” to find out how African MVNOs can bypass MVNE middlemen by leveraging cloud-native SaaS solutions and direct MNO wholesale platforms.
• Read about the Nigerian Communications Commission’s MVNO framework and licensing in “Is Nigeria Ripe for MVNOs —Or Are We Just Licensing Hope?” from TechAfrica News.
• Wanna get the scoop around the world on how challenging it is to launch an MVNO? Learn about Canada’s redefinition of MVNO requirements, listen to the MVNO Knowledge Hub podcast episode, “Thailand’s MVNO Collapse – The Regulatory Inaction that Killed an Industry,” to learn about Thailand, and catch up on Pakistan by reading “New PTA Policy Will Let New Telcos Launch Services in Pakistan Without a Physical Network”.
• Learn about Totogi's Wholesale Solution for MNOs looking to monetize MVNO partnerships. Want to try it out? Book a demo!
• OF COURSE the telcos don’t collude to box out the MVNOs. But it did remind me of that time the Dukes tried to corner the frozen concentrate orange juice market in the movie Trading Places. Watch how they lose their fortune over a $1 bet between Louis Winthorpe III (Aykroyd) and Billy Ray (Murphy).
• Find out more about Totogi by meeting with us at the NOVACOM Summit in Cape Town, South Africa, on September 23-25. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Allan Rasmussen is an MVNA/MVNE/MVNO specialist with hands-on experience from more than 60 projects in both competitive and greenfield markets. His expertise includes business case development, execution, launch, and growth strategies. He is an advisor and consultant to MNOs, MVNAs, MVNEs, MVNOs, national regulatory authorities, government agencies, TMT industry associations, and innovation and investment banks. Allan is a well-known voice in the global MVNO space as a walking MVNO wiki, and is recognized for his expertise in spotting emerging trends and curating crucial industry news. He brings a unique blend of strategic foresight and practical experience to his work, all while championing his core values of fostering MVNO growth and sharing knowledge.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Telco transformation projects are legendary for their complexity. Operators must maintain 99.999% uptime while ripping out decades-old legacy systems that are deeply intertwined with every aspect of their business. They involve massive technical debt, vendor lock-in, regulatory compliance requirements, and the challenge of modernizing infrastructure—all of which need to be managed while serving millions of customers who expect flawless service. Add in organizational resistance to change, budget constraints, and the fact that many telcos still run critical systems on 1980s mainframes, and you have a perfect storm. Getting it wrong can mean network outages, customer churn, regulatory fines, and revenue loss that can run into the hundreds of millions.

In this episode, I'm talking with Amol Phadke, Chief Transformation Officer at Tech Mahindra. With over 25 years of experience spanning Google Cloud, Telenor, and now leading AI transformation at a major service provider, Amol has seen transformation from every angle. We explore why traditional projects fail, how successful telcos are building new revenue streams, and Tech Mahindra's framework for AI-driven transformation. 

Listen now to hear:

• Why telcos face a "perfect storm" of declining revenue and legacy challenges [05:27]
• How successful telcos leverage trust to build sovereignty [07:51];
• Tech Mahindra's six-pillar AI transformation framework [10:23]; and
• Why one CEO said AI is everywhere except his P&L [11:03]. 

Links and Resources:

• Learn about Tech Mahindra's six-pillar AI transformation framework.
• Read about Tech Mahindra's Orion platform for agentic AI deployment.
• Find out about Tech Mahindra Maker's Lab, an innovation center that transforms ideas into solutions.
• Listen to my conversation with Dr. Lester Thomas, head of new technologies and innovation at Vodafone Digital and IT.  He breaks down the transformation that moved 17 petabytes from 600 Hadoop servers hosted in 11 countries to Google Cloud.
• BSS Magic is a game-changer when it comes to telco transformation—especially when migrating data to a new system. Forget iterative attempts until you get it right; you work right inside the BSS Magic platform and get the job done in 20% of the time. Want to try it out? Book a demo!
• Find out how Totogi can accelerate your transformation project by meeting with us at the NOVACOM Summit in Cape Town, South Africa, on September 23-25. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Besides telco transformation projects, do you know who else has a bad reputation? Joan Jett! I once saw her in Las Vegas. She’s a bad-ass rocker chick!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Amol Phadke is a senior business executive providing leadership in AI, cloud, software networks and IT, Big Tech, and telecommunications. He specializes in strategy definition, execution of large-scale engineering and innovation development/delivery units, and leading global multi-discipline teams. He is Chief Transformation Officer at Tech Mahindra, where he supports the CEO on strategic initiatives across the company, including elevating the communications industry vertical globally. Prior to Tech Mahindra, Amol served as EVP and Group CTO at Telenor Group, and as a member of Telenor’s group executive management team. Prior to Telenor, Amol was served as Global GM for the communications service provider industry vertical at Google Cloud.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The telco industry has long been plagued by sluggish software development cycles that stretch across months and years. But operators are now building and deploying AI-powered solutions in weeks using what Microsoft calls "hypervelocity engineering."

In this episode, I'm talking with Robin Cole, vice president of engineering at Microsoft, who works with telcos on their biggest technical challenges. She explains how operators like AT&T, KT Corporation, and Telefónica are using Microsoft tools and methodology to speed development timelines and modernize operations.

Listen now to hear:

• The three components of hypervelocity engineering that accelerate development [04:13];
• The spectrum between AI augmentation and full automation [07:00];
• How AT&T is benefiting from Microsoft's AI advancements [12:33];
• How KT Corporation is transforming its entire development strategy with Microsoft [13:34].

Links and Resources:

• Watch Robin discuss Microsoft’s hypervelocity engineering at TM Forum’s DTW Ignite.
• Learn more about Microsoft’s Azure AI Foundry.
• Read about Microsoft Copilot Studio, a low-code/no-code AI development environment. 
• Discover GitHub Copilot, an AI-powered coding assistant.
• Read Microsoft’s blog, Microsoft AI ignites telecom innovation and growth.
• See how AT&T improved operations and employee experiences with Azure.
• Read about KT Corporation’s partnership with Microsoft to accelerate AI innovation in Korea.
• Check out Telefónica and Microsoft’s collaboration to co-develop digital solutions using Open Gateway.
• Watch Microsoft Copilot interview Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, and Satya Nadella as part of celebrating the 50th anniversary of Microsoft.
• Find out how Totogi's BSS Magic can turn your AI development tools into telecom powerhouses at the NOVACOM Summit in Cape Town, September 23-25. DM me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Did you catch Robin’s Bugs Bunny reference when she says “took a hard right turn at Albuquerque”? Check out this compilation of all the times Bugs Bunny says his iconic line.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Robin Cole is an accomplished business development, marketing, and engineering program management executive with 25 years of experience in Fortune 100 companies and startups. Her professional experience includes Sony, where she managed worldwide strategy and business development for Sony Electronics and Sony Corporation; Apple, where she led program management efforts across the MacBook portfolio of products; and Microsoft, where she has held a number of marketing, business development, sales and program management leadership roles across a variety of products. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Google Cloud runs the largest private network on the planet, managing billions of users with a fraction of the staff that regional telcos need. Now it’s opening up its playbook to share this AI-driven approach with telecommunications operators.

In this episode, I'm talking with Angelo Libertucci, global head of industry for telecom at Google Cloud, about its partnership with Ericsson to build a cloud-native, 5G core and autonomous operations framework entirely on Google Cloud that can self-heal and self-optimize without human intervention.

Listen now to hear:

• How Google's partnership with Ericsson delivers instant service deployment for 5G networks [03:40]
• Why the timing is finally right for telcos to move core network functions to the public cloud [04:56]
• The math behind network utilization that makes public cloud for network workloads financially compelling [09:12]
• How Bell Canada transformed its network performance using autonomous operations without moving workloads to cloud [13:55]

Links and Resources:

• Read about Google Cloud and Ericsson's carrier-grade 5G Core-as-a-Service platform.
• Learn about Google Cloud's Autonomous Network Operations framework.
• Check out O2 Telefónica Germany and Google Cloud’s partnership to move 5G functions to the cloud with Nokia.
• Watch my 2018 Interview with Google Cloud about Spanner (yes, I’ve been talking about telco and the public cloud for FOREVER)!
• Angelo was a professional hockey player.  Check out his jersey when he played with the Canadian All Stars.
• I’m not a hockey player, but I do play tennis.  Check out this sport that combines both, ice tennis — watch out for those slapstick backhands!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Angelo Libertucci heads the telecom industry for Google Cloud globally. He is responsible for business development and strategy, partnerships, and field enablement that will drive CSP service differentiation and value, leveraging Google Cloud's technology and platform. He also identifies and capitalizes on new opportunities across Google’s ecosystem.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Network APIs are the telecom industry's next big bet for unlocking new revenue, with McKinsey & Company projecting they could generate up to $300 billion in connectivity and edge computing revenue over the next four to six years. But the real challenge isn't technical—it's convincing millions of developers to adopt telco’s network APIs instead of sticking with what they already use.

In this episode, I sit down with Shkumbin Hamiti, Nokia's vice president of network monetization, who leads the Network as Code platform that has grown to over 50 partners since launch. We explore why winning over developers is the holy grail for network API success.

Listen now to hear:

• How Nokia's strategy differs from Ericsson's Aduna approach [04:56]
• Examples of commercial deployments that have moved beyond proof of concept [07:05]
• Why telcos need to meet developers where they are [10:46]

Links and Resources:

• Check out McKinsey’s report predicting network API’s $300 billion dollar revenue potential and its follow up piece, The future of telcos: Mapping the routes to renewed success.
• Learn about Nokia's Network as Code platform and its Acquisition of Rapid.
• Read about Nokia’s partnership with Deutsche Telekom for fraud prevention APIs.
• Learn about Globe Telecom’s partnership with Nokia for enhanced banking security.
• Check out Nokia’s partnership with robotaxi service Elmo, whose vehicles combine AI, sensors and Nokia’s network APIs to operate safely in busy urban environments.
• Watch a demo of Elmo’s remote teledriving system at MWC25 in Barcelona, where you could control a real car that was over 2,000 miles away from Nokia’s booth.
• Read about Nokia's partnership with Google Cloud marketplace for API distribution.
• Shkumbin quoted my mentor, strategic HR veteran Jim Abolt, in this interview. Check out Telco in 20 episode 103 to hear more of Jim’s perspective on change management.
• Shkumbin and I both love tennis.  Did you catch the 2025 French Open men's final between Spain’s Carlos Alcaraz and Italy’s Jannik Sinner? Their grueling match is considered one of the top 5 all time best matches. Watch highlights here.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Shkumbin Hamiti is vice-president and head of Nokia's network monetization platform business unit. He is an accomplished technology executive with 28+ years of experience spearheading transformative initiatives within the mobile and cloud industries at Nokia. He is based at Nokia’s headquarters in Espoo, Finland.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The telecommunications industry is at a crossroads, with strategic opportunities ready to reshape how operators generate revenue and compete. From network APIs, to GPU-as-a-Service (GPUaaS), to moving networks to the public cloud, telcos are weighing big bets that require capital and focus. The real challenge isn't identifying opportunities—it's knowing which ones to pursue and which to walk away from.

In this episode, I’m talking with Harrison Lung, group chief strategy officer at e& (formerly Etisalat). We're going to dive into e&'s four strategic pillars, Harrison's take on the big strategy ideas in our industry, and how the operator is applying AI behind the scenes.

Listen now to hear:

• e&’s plans for the next five years, including its 4D strategic framework [04:15];
• Harrison's take on network APIs, GPUaaS, and cloud-native networks [08:37];
• Keys to driving strategic success [11:25]; and
• The exciting new AI use cases e& is putting to the test [13:44].

Links and Resources:

• Read more about Etisalat’s rebranding to e&.
• Check out Harrison’s 2024 year-end wrap up of e&’s transformative progress.
• Read Aduna’s announcement about e& becoming an equity partner in its global network API venture.
• Learn about how e& is using AI in the Careem Super App to ensure quicker food delivery times.
• Is your telco ready to drive strategic success? Check out my blogs for tips: So, you want to be a tech-co? and Telco’s shift to the public cloud gets real.
• If you've ever visited the UAE, you can't have missed the iconic twinkling golf balls above the e& buildings—those magical spheres that shimmer like stars against the night sky, each one housing 940 tiny lenses and optical fibers that create their mesmerizing starry effect. I forgot to ask Harrison if e& will keep these beloved tributes to Etisilat!
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Harrison Lung is the group chief strategy officer at e&. He was appointed in May 2023 and oversees corporate strategy and planning, mergers and acquisitions (M&A), venture capital, Group transformation, ESG and sustainability. With over two decades of experience in the telecom and technology sectors, Harrison is directly collaborating with e&'s management team and board of directors to develop the overall business strategy, set the direction of the Group and develop plans to achieve e&'s business objectives. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Telecom operators worldwide need to modernize their infrastructure and reduce costs. While many have been hesitant to move critical network functions to the public cloud, a growing number of visionary operators are proving that cloud-native networks aren't just possible—they're the future.

Today, I'm speaking with Mallik Rao, chief technology and enterprise business officer at Telefónica Germany, who is leading the world's first brownfield migration of a 5G core network to AWS. We dive into the technical challenges his team faced, the organizational transformation required, and why combining cloud-native architecture with Open RAN is poised to revolutionize how telcos operate.

Listen now to hear:

• Why Mallik Rao killed his first cloud migration project after 18 months; [05:08]
• How AWS redesigned its hardware infrastructure for telco workloads, creating Outpost 2.0; [06:36]
• The strategy behind disaggregating hardware and software lifecycles in RAN for maximum flexibility; and [11:19]
• Why time-to-market improvements matter more than cost savings [13:37].

Links and Resources:

• Read Telefónica Germany’s project announcement, 5G Cloud Core milestone with over one million users on the O2 Telefónica network.
• Take a look at this article on how the operator shifted customers from an Ericsson 5G cloud core to one provided by AWS and Nokia.
• Learn more about AWS’s second-generation Outposts racks.
• Check out Telefónica Germany’s Open RAN strategy and collaboration with Samsung to modernize RAN.
• Learn more about Totogi’s Charging-as-a-Service, a multi-tenant SaaS solution that delivers automatic scaling, usage-based pricing, CI/CD-driven upgrades, open APIs, and real-time event-based charging on the public cloud.
• Can your charger scale to the equivalent of 1 billion subscribers? Totogi’s Charging-as-a-Service can, and we’ve got the proof. Check out this performance benchmark whitepaper.
• Relocating for a new job can be hard! In the 1988 comedy Moving, Richard Pryor plays Arlo Pear, a man uprooting his life and family for his dream job. But when they reach their new home, they find the previous owners weren’t joking about ‘taking everything.’ 
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, a 2024 and 2025 Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Mallik Rao has been a member of the Management Board of Telefónica Deutschland Holding AG since the end of October 2019. He was initially responsible for the mobile and fixed network as well as the IT of Telefónica Deutschland in his role as chief technology & information officer. Mallik Rao has also been assigned responsibility for the business customer division and the company’s data platforms and artificial intelligence activities in his role as chief technology & enterprise officer. Mallik has more than 25 years of experience in the international telecommunications industry. He lived and worked in seven countries, bringing experience from technology providers like Ericsson and Nortel, and service providers like Vodafone and Aircel. He is passionate about working with various cultures and building technology solutions for customers. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The telecommunications industry has reached a critical inflection point where legacy IT systems can no longer support the demands of an AI-first world. Traditional telco technology approaches are too complex, slow, and fundamentally incompatible with the speed and agility required for modern digital services.

Today I'm speaking with Dr. Lester Thomas, head of new technologies and innovation at Vodafone Digital and IT, and a TM Forum Distinguished Fellow. Lester has driven some of the most ambitious cloud transformation projects in telecom, including Vodafone's groundbreaking data migration that consolidated servers across multiple countries into a unified cloud platform. We explore Vodafone's "Composable IT" vision and how the company is transforming its technology stack to be modular, open, and AI-ready.

Listen now to hear:

• Vodafone's data transformation that moved 17 petabytes from 600 Hadoop servers hosted in 11 countries into Google Cloud, creating the foundation for AI adoption [04:20]
• The company's strict "cloud native" definition requiring complete re-engineering rather than lift-and-shift, with 80-90% of digital workloads now truly cloud native [09:37]
• Three principles driving Vodafone's Open Digital Architecture: machine-readable standards, open-source collaboration, and proof-of-concept testing over RFPs [14:18]
• How AI is forcing complete software redesign, with Vodafone's AI Booster democratizing AI access across all business functions while maintaining governance [17:51]

Links and Resources:

• Watch Vodafone’s announcement at Google Cloud Next 2019 to rebuild their Data Ocean on Google Cloud to eliminate 600+ on-prem Hadoop servers across 11 countries.
• Check out my blogs, Vodafone is putting on a public cloud clinic and Be like Vodafone and move your analytics to the public cloud.
• Take a look at this TelcoDR Vodafone Case Study, How Vodafone Saved Nearly 70% by moving analytics platform to the public cloud.
• Read about Vodafone’s partnership with Google Cloud to process massive data volumes, enhance digital services, and drive innovation across Vodafone’s global operations.
• Check out this Google Cloud blog on how Vodafone's AI Booster project is supercharging AI & ML at scale.
• Listen to this episode of the TM Forum Inside Out podcast to learn how Open APIs spurn innovation.
• Take a look at this article from TM Forum, ODA explained: Tools for implementation and deployment.
• Watch my Gen AI Summit talk at MWC25 on Building an AI-first Telco.
• Learn more about how Totogi’s BSS Magic, powered by AI and the public cloud, enables seamless interoperability, drives innovation, and unlocks new growth.
• Lester Thomas has taken up wing foiling, an adventure sport combining sailing and flying.  Here’s what it looks like if you are inspired and want to give it a try.
• Check out a video version of this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We've also won a 2024 MarComm Award, a 2024 and 2025 Hermes Award, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Dr. Lester Thomas is Head of New Technologies and Innovation and a Distinguished Engineer at Vodafone Digital. A 20-year Vodafone veteran, he leads Vodafone’s Open Digital Architecture strategy, driving innovation in Generative AI and cloud-native technologies. Lester is passionate about telecoms’ role in society and is a strong advocate for open standards and open-source. He has been recognized as a TM Forum Distinguished Fellow for his contribution to the Open Digital Architecture and Open-API initiatives. When not shaping telecom’s future, he enjoys adventurous sports, has a private pilot’s license and also enjoys sailing and other watersports.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.