Hyperscaler CAPEX investments are staggering: Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Meta spent more than $400 billion on infrastructure in 2025 and are expected to reach over $600 billion in 2026. They’re on pace to surpass $2 trillion in cumulative CAPEX spend before the year is over. Meanwhile, U.S. telco CAPEX sits at $50 billion for 2025—and it's shrinking.

For this episode, Charles Fitzgerald, Managing Director at Platformonomics, returns for his fourth (!) appearance on Telco in 20 to break down his tenth annual Follow the CAPEX report. We dive into the hyperscaler spending surge, the two big telco AI plays coming out of MWC 2026—sovereign cloud and AI-RAN, and why the gap between infrastructure spenders and operators is impossible to close.

Listen now to hear:

Links and Resources:

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Charles Fitzgerald is a Seattle-based angel investor, with a focus on developer platforms and infrastructure. Previously, he spent 20+ years working on platform businesses at Microsoft and VMware. He can see the cloud from his house.

Podcast Credits:

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MWC 26 is a wrap, and one thing is clear: the telco industry has moved past asking whether AI will transform the business. The new question is who's moving fast enough to capture value, and who's still playing catch up.

Before I left Barcelona, I stopped by the Mobile World Live Podcast to debrief with host Justin Springham, Managing News Editor Kavit Majithia, and analyst Carolina Milanesi from Creative Strategies. We broke down the real story behind the agentic AI buzz at MWC, what the direct-to-device satellite announcements mean for operators, and why the way teams work in 12 months will look nothing like it does today. 

Listen now to hear:

Links and Resources:

Telco execs, wanna talk AI and public cloud? Set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value they can bring. 

Follow DR:

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

This episode is a special double-drop with the Mobile World Live podcast, featuring: 

Podcast Credits:

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Every telco exec is talking about AI agents. Almost nobody is talking about what those agents actually need to work: context.

Not just data — the logic, rules, and decision-making processes that define how your business actually operates. That knowledge currently lives in two places: buried in vendor code nobody fully understands, and inside people's heads. No agentic system, no matter how shiny, can make decisions without it.

In this episode, I sit down with John Abraham, Partner and Principal Analyst at Appledore Research, to dig into why a lack of context is the real blocker for AI at scale, why most approaches only solve half the problem, and how an ontology gives AI the business logic it needs to not just analyze, but decide and act.

Listen now to hear:

Links and Resources:

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR:

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

With over 16 years of experience in the telecom industry, John leads Appledore’s Digital Enablement & Monetization program. Previously, he was at Analysys Mason for 11 years, where he led the digital experience research segment as principal analyst. He has experience working with a varied client base on topics ranging from digitization benchmarking and procurement for CSPs; strategy and go-to market for vendors; and commercial and technical due diligence for financial institutions. Earlier, as a consultant at a BSS vendor, he led requirements gathering, solution definition, and implementation at multiple Tier-1 telcos in Asia and Europe. John holds a bachelor’s degree in computer science from Anna University (India) and an MBA from Bradford University School of Management (UK).

Podcast Credits:

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

At MWC, vendors will flood the floor with AI demos that look impressive but can’t prove their actual value. Telcos have spent billions connecting systems, but connection isn’t comprehension. Most AI initiatives are blind—unable to see across the fragmented landscape of BSS, OSS, and network systems that speak different languages and live in isolated realities.

The Totogi Ontology is a semantic layer that gives AI the ability to understand your business. Once it does, the army of consultants you’ve been paying to manually stitch together data across systems becomes redundant—and the economics of everything changes. So when the same vendor selling you AI is also billing you for the consultants that AI should replace, ask them to show you the money. 

Listen now to hear:

• Why AI demos fail when they touch your architecture [03:11];
• How the Totogi Ontology solved Zain’s dormant cell problem and turned 48-hours of troubleshooting into 30-minute fixes [04:34]; 
• Why the ability to comprehend across systems and domains is so impactful [6:06] and
• The one question that separates real AI value from empty promises [08:00].

Links and Resources:

• Watch the video version of this talk, Show me the money, on YouTube. 
• Learn more about the Totogi Ontology and how it's helping Tier-1 operators turn AI into actual profit.
• Want to see the Totogi Ontology in action and hear more customer success stories? Find Team Totogi in Hall 2 at MWC26 in Barcelona, running March 2-5. We’ll be showing off our telco ontology that manages enterprise context at scale. Set up a meeting. 
• Catch me taking part in MWC’s Agentic AI Summit, Monday, March 2, 9:00am - 1:00 pm, in Hall 6.
• What telco execs need from every AI vendor is the same thing Cuba Gooding Jr. demanded from Tom Cruise in Jerry Maguire: Show me the money!
• Connect with me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:

Danielle Rios (DR) is the founder and CEO of TelcoDR and Totogi, and host of the Telco in 20 podcast.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The telecom industry is full of AI projects that fail. Most operators think it’s a data problem—connect the systems, feed AI the information. But data doesn't tell AI how to decide. Your processes do. Your rules do.

In this special “What's Up with Totogi” episode, I flip the script and have my friend David Haselwood interview me about BSS Magic. We dig into what a breakthrough biology project from the 1990s can teach telcos about making AI work, why BSS Magic isn’t actually a BSS, and why vendor consolidation won’t fix your real problem. I also share stories from Tier-1 operators who tried horizontal AI vendors, failed—and then came to Totogi for AI that works.

Listen now to hear:

• What BSS Magic is … and isn’t [03:23];
• How we proved it’s the real deal at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Summit  [06:39];
• Why AI projects keep failing [08:59]; and
• How Tier-1 operators are using BSS Magic to get real results [10:55].

Links and Resources:

• Want to see BSS Magic in action and hear more customer success stories? Find Team Totogi in Hall 2 at MWC26 in Barcelona, running March 2-5. We’ll be showing off our telco ontology that manages context at scale. Connect with DR on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Check out Lulu Cheng Meservey's post on why bragging about AI in 2026 is like bragging about cloud storage—customers want to see real value, not buzzwords.
• Read how a Southeast Asian operator cut CPQ order creation time by over 80%—from 5 minutes and 50+ clicks to under 50 seconds with a single prompt using BSS Magic.
• Learn how Totogi generated over 500,000 lines of BSS Code in one day—LIVE!—at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Forum, proving that BSS Magic is the real deal. Check out our results.
• Listen to another Telco in 20 “What’s Up With Totogi” episode to learn more about how BSS Magic functions as a telco-specific ontological layer and transforms BSS migrations from multi-year projects to just a few months.
• Learn more about the Gene Ontology project and how biologists solved their semantic inconsistency problem in the 1990s.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR:

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest:
Danielle Rios (DR) is the founder and CEO of TelcoDR and Totogi, and host of the Telco in 20 podcast.

Podcast Credits:

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The telecommunications industry is heading to MWC Barcelona with a strong desire to skip AI hype in favor of AI proof. Telco executives aren’t looking for more possibilities—they’re demanding real deployments, measurable outcomes, and P&L impact. 

For this episode, I’m joined by Rick Lievano, Microsoft’s CTO for the Worldwide Telecommunications Industry. We dive into Microsoft’s vision for network autonomy, real-world deployments delivering breakthrough results, and the barriers holding telcos back from deploying AI agents at scale.

Listen now to hear:

• How Microsoft’s NOA framework automates telco network operations [03:29];
• How T-Mobile built a self-healing network that even responds automatically to hurricanes [09:23];
• What sovereign cloud really means [11:30]; and
• What's holding back telcos from deploying AI at scale [14:18].

Links and Resources:

• Learn more about Microsoft’s Network Operations Agent (NOA) Framework for network autonomy and read Microsoft’s white paper on NetAI, the autonomous networking framework powering Azure’s global network operations.
• Watch this video about Microsoft Agent 365, the control plane that helps teams deploy, manage, and secure AI agents to support agentic AI at scale.
• Check out how AT&T deployed 71 generative AI solutions to over 100,000 employees with Azure, reducing customer care resolution time by 33% and processing approximately 9 billion tokens daily.
• Read how SK Telecom used Microsoft Foundry to create AI-native digital experiences that feel more like a lifestyle concierge than a traditional telco app.
• Learn how T-Mobile unified its network data on Azure and built a self-healing network.
• Learn about Bleu in France, where Orange and Capgemini operate a sovereign Azure environment with zero Microsoft access, enabling telcos to run sensitive workloads under strict data residency guarantees.
• Did you know Microsoft’s co-founder Bill Gates’ has played pickleball for over 50 years, even playing on the original court built by the game’s inventors?
• Did you know DR won the The Minor League Pickleball (MiLP) DUPR16 50+ Nationals? Watch her team, The Austin Ballers, take the top prize!
• Who else is a birder? We talked about my love of birdfeeders. Here is recent video from my Bird Buddy, which I love! 
• Want to learn how to scale AI agents with confidence? Come find Team Totogi at MWC26 in Barcelona, running March 2-5. We will be showing off BSS Magic and our telco ontology that manages context at scale. Connect with DR on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Rick Lievano is Microsoft’s CTO for the Worldwide Telecommunications Industry. He works with customers and partners in developing telecommunications industry solutions and reference architectures to address the rapidly changing needs of service providers across the globe. He is an enthusiastic participant and speaker in many industry communities, an advocate of industry frameworks and open standards, and holds TM Forum Open Digital Architecture and Business Development Manager Career Certifications. At TM Forum, he is a member of the Composable IT & Ecosystems Mission, overseeing the effective creation and adoption of pragmatic best practices and standards to deliver value to the membership. As a board member at both Mplify Alliance (former MEF Forum) and Linux CAMARA, his contributions drive the industry toward a more connected and efficient digital future. Rick currently leads initiatives to help operators achieve more by infusing agentic artificial intelligence across their business in a secure and responsible manner.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

MWC26 in Barcelona is right around the corner, and the telco industry is already buzzing about what will unfold at the Fira. Four big themes will dominate this year’s event: AI-driven networks, network APIs, AI data centers, and regulation. But which of these present real opportunities for telecom, and which are expensive distractions or even potential minefields? 

For this episode, I’m joined by Dean Bubley, founder and director of Disruptive Analysis. He and I give our takes on what telcos should prioritize in the coming year, where the real obstacles lie, and what it will take to win in 2026. 

Listen now to hear:

• Where operators should start with AI implementation [04:00];
• The network API strategy that everyone is missing [06:24];
• Why telcos will struggle to compete on AI infrastructure [10:02]; and
• How a regulation-first mindset could lead to more missed opportunities [13:35].

Links and Resources:

• Read Benedict Evans’ “AI Eats the World” report, which discusses hyperscaler investment strategies and the risks of under-investing in AI.
• Check out McKinsey & Company’s report predicting that network APIs have a $300 billion dollar revenue potential, and its follow up piece, The future of telcos: Mapping the routes to renewed success.
• Learn more about Twilio’s developer ecosystem with 10 million developers generating almost $5 billion in revenue.
• Check out some of telco’s biggest AI infrastructure investments in 2025: SK Telecom’s AI data center expansion, Deutsche Telekom’s AI factory partnership with NVIDIA, and Verizon’s GPU cloud and enterprise workload initiatives.
• Listen to Telco in 20 episode 105, NVIDIA’s vision for AI and the RAN, to learn about NVIDIA's approach to AI-RAN and monetizing network infrastructure.
• Want to see what moving fast with AI actually looks like? Come find me at MWC26 in Barcelona, running March 2-5. Totogi will be showing off BSS Magic, a way to transform your telco without having to actually transform your systems. Connect with me on LinkedIn or X @TelcoDR to set up a time to meet.
• Dean shared his favorite passport stamp—Palau’s jellyfish and Palau Pledge, an environmental commitment visitors sign upon arrival. But passport stamps may soon be a thing of the past as the EU and other countries shift to digital border systems.
• Want to hear more from Dean? He’ll be joined by Andrew Collinson at TelecomTV’s Unthinkable Lab: Agentic AI + Telecoms APIs = ? event on January 15 in London.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Dean Bubley is the founder of Disruptive Analysis, an independent technology industry analyst and consulting firm based in London. He also jointly runs the Disruptive 6G initiative and is a convener of the 6G Reset forum and the Unthinkable Lab project. An outspoken analyst and futurist with over 25 years of experience, he specializes in mobile/telecoms fields, with an eye on broader technological, governmental, and societal contexts. He is one of the leading market observers and forecasters covering 5G, 6G, Wi-Fi, voice & network AI, spectrum & broadband policy, edge/cloud compute, enterprise private networks, IoT, new telecom business models, and voice/video communications.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What an incredible year for telco, AI, and the public cloud. Hyperscalers shattered CapEx records, the first brownfield 5G cores migrated to the public cloud, and we had phenomenal conversations with telco heavyweights worldwide. One of our episodes really stood out this year: my conversation with Gabriela Styf Sjöman, Managing Director of Research and Network Strategy at BT Group. We’re bringing it back as our 2025 Telco in 20 Episode of the Year.

Gabriela cut through tech jargon with a brilliant, two-question framework to guide technology decisions: does it help us make money or does it help us save money? We dive into BT's dual AI strategy, why "best network" marketing is dead, and the cultural shift needed for telcos to become subscriber-centric.

Listen now to hear: 

• Why telcos must prioritize commercial transformation to move up the value chain [05:26];
• BT's dual AI strategy for internal operations and customer service [07:31];
• The cultural shift needed to embrace process redesign and customer-centric thinking [10:49]; and
• Why "best network" marketing is dead and what telcos should focus on instead [13:31].

Links and Resources:

• Watch Gabriela’s talk and our panel from TelecomTV’s 2025 DSP Leaders World Forum on BT's AI strategy and why telcos must focus on products over technology.
• Check out Gabriela’s TelecomTV interview on how AI-powered network APIs will help telcos become insights-driven providers and why telecom standardization needs a revamp.
• Read my blogs, The modern telco and To get AI value, shift left (and eliminate jobs), to learn how AI-driven transformation can improve telco profitability and operational efficiency.
• Learn more about BT Group's network strategy and AI initiatives at bt.com.
• Totogi’s BSS Magic uses AI to help operators solve their vendor interoperability problem. Learn how we generated over 600,000 lines of BSS Code in one day—LIVE!—at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Forum, proving that BSS Magic is the real deal. Check out our results.
• Looking for new ways to generate revenue? Learn how hyper-personalization can unlock revenue streams through advanced ML platforms like Totogi’s PlanAI.
• Want to try albondigas Mexicanas, also known as Mexican meatballs?  Here’s a recipe to get you started.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and the public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest

Gabriela Styf Sjöman is a global executive with extensive international business experience in the telecom and IT industries. She has held executive positions in numerous multinational organizations across functions such as strategy, technology, business, and sales. She is currently Managing Director of Research and Network Strategy at BT Group, where she oversees network strategy, industry standards, technology research, and research commercialization. Prior to joining BT Group Gabriela held various executive positions such as Chief Strategy Officer at Nokia, Deputy Chief Operating Officer and VP Head of Network Services at Telia Company, VP Head of Networks and TI Labs at Telecom Italia, and numerous positions at Ericsson spanning Technology and Business.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Most consumers can't tell the difference between Wi-Fi and cellular networks, yet our industry expects them to navigate over 200 confusing plan options. This complexity leaves no easy way for customers to compare networks, compare coverage at specific locations, or recognize if they’re on the right plan for their usage patterns.

For this episode, I'm talking with Thad Hwang, CEO and founder of Goji Mobile, a consumer super app that's bringing transparency to mobile. Goji is like Expedia for mobile—one platform where consumers can compare plans, evaluate coverage, and purchase refurbished devices.

Listen now to hear:

• How hyper-local coverage maps help consumers choose the right carrier [05:31]
• Why they stay with carriers even when they aren't meeting their needs [06:52]
• Why so many customers overpay for data [07:35]
• How simple plan adjustments can save people hundreds of dollars per year [11:07]

Links and Resources:

• Check out the Goji Mobile website to compare carriers and plans, check coverage maps, and shop for phones.
• Download the Goji Mobile app to get real-time measurement of your network performance. 
• Looking to upgrade your phone? Go to the Goji Store to buy quality refurbished phones at great prices. It’s currently offering a special 10% discount for our listeners! Use the code: TELCOIN20 
• Read the Goji blog, and follow Goji on Facebook and Instagram.
• Thad compared choosing from 200+ mobile plans to ordering from the Cheesecake Factory menu—and he's not wrong. That thing is absolutely insane and takes at least 15 minutes to read! Take a look at the menu to see why. 
• Want to see the pickleball maneuvers Thad and I geeked out about? Take a look at these videos to see how to hit an Erne and ATP. 
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

Follow DR

• Have an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!
• Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us know
• Follow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20
• Follow DR on X @TelcoDR

The Telco in 20 podcast is ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally by Listen Notes! 🎉 We’ve also won 2024 and 2025 MarCom Awards, 2024 and 2025 Hermes Creative Awards, and are recognized as a TeckNexus Top 12 Telco and Tech Podcast, Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.

If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!

This week’s guest
Thad Hwang is the Founder and CEO of Goji Mobile, where he’s building a next-generation mobile marketplace that connects consumers with the best deals on phones and plans. He has deep dual-sided marketplace experience from his time at eBay and Lyft, as well as enterprise B2B expertise in sectors like automotive, data/tooling, and government, and executive leadership experience as Chief Product Officer at Replica and The Black Tux. Thad has a track record of scaling consumer products from zero to millions of users, building and leading cross-functional teams, and driving innovation across mobile, e-commerce, and SaaS. 

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The telco industry has been buzzing about AI transformation, but few operators have seen tangible results beyond pilot projects. The challenge isn't just adopting new technology—it's fundamentally changing how telcos build and maintain their business support systems (BSS).

For this special episode, I join Scott Bicheno and Iain Morris on the Telecoms.com podcast to discuss Totogi's recent AI demonstration at TelecomTV's AI-Native Telco Forum in Düsseldorf, Germany. This is one of our rare "double drops," where both podcasts share the same conversation. We talk about Totogi’s live coding demonstration in Germany, which used AI and BSS Magic to generate over 600,000 lines of BSS code, explore the concept of ontology in AI systems, and dive into why telcos struggle with AI implementation. Fair warning: this episode is longer than usual, but we cover a lot of important topics. 

Listen now to hear:

• Why telcos can't get past "zero to one" with AI—and where to start [19:01];
• The inside story behind Totogi’s live coding feat [39:33];
• How telco-specific ontology helps AI understand our industry’s business logic [41:28]; and
• Why many veteran developers resist AI-generated code [53:05].

Links and Resources:

• I have a big idea that needs bold execution: my BSS vision for telcos. I want to use AI to help operators solve their vendor interoperability mess by creating a product that helps them build their own BSS. Learn how Totogi generated over 500,000 lines of BSS Code in one day—LIVE!—at TelecomTV’s AI-Native Telco Forum, proving that BSS Magic is the real deal. Check out our results.
• Watch my recent interview with Ray Le Maistre from TelecomTV where I discuss how coding with LLMs is approaching human-level capability.
• Read my blog, Düsseldorf changed everything for BSS, where I break down three objections people have about BSS Magic and explain how we're systematically proving each one wrong.
• Check out Scott Bicheno's article Totogi's automated BSS code-writing demonstration, The Fast Mode’s Totogi Demos AI-Built BSS From Scratch in a 'Single Day', Edward Finegold said Totogi “stuck their necks out” to show what’s possible with a new approach to BSS, and TelecomTV’s coverage Totogi creates new BSS system on AI-Native Telco Forum show floor.
• Learn more about Totogi's BSS Magic and how AI is transforming BSS development.
• Read my blogs to learn why telco is the perfect use case for AI-assisted development, how context engineering enables production-ready AI applications, and why your legacy BSS vendors won't rebuild as AI-native.
• Read my blog on how the public cloud is YOUR problem.
• Learn about my other companies, Skyvera and TelcoDR.
• Check out my full 2-hour conversation with Scott Bicheno and Iain Morris on the Telecoms.com podcast.
• Explore Gauntlet AI, the 10-week program my son went through that is training developers in AI-powered coding.
• Scott, Iain and I also discussed how Wimbledon's switch to AI technology for line calls mirrors concerns about AI replacing human expertise. Read more about the controversy.
• Want to know more about the beer we were drinking? Scott and Iain’s favorite is BrewDog’s Hazy Jane.
• We talked about my love of both pickleball and tennis in this episode. If you're curious about the differences between the two sports, this video explains the seven biggest ones.
• Check out this episode on our YouTube channel.
• You can find the episode transcript here.

Wanna talk AI and public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring. 

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This week’s guest
The Telecoms.com Podcast is a weekly show produced by Telecoms.com and hosted by industry experts Scott Bicheno and Iain Morris. The format centers on irreverent and engaging discussions about current trends, controversies, and major news in the global telecommunications sector, often featuring special guests from telecom operators, vendors, and analysts.

As the Editorial Director of Telecoms.com, Scott Bicheno has been covering the mobile phone and broader technology industries for over 20 years. Prior to Telecoms.com, Scott was the primary smartphone specialist at industry analyst Strategy Analytics. 

Iain Morris is the International Editor at Light Reading. Prior to boosting Light Reading's UK-based editorial team numbers, he was a successful freelance writer and editor covering the telecom sector. He was previously the lead telecom analyst for the Economist Intelligence Unit.

Podcast Credits

• Executive Producer and Host: Danielle Rios, TelcoDR
• Senior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo Media
• Senior Editor/Brand Manager: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard Marketing
• Audio Editor: Andrew Condell
• Supervising Producer: Amanda Avery
• Associate Producer: Kriselda Dionisio
• Music: Dyami Wilson

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