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Since the founding era, Christian nationalists have told and believed myths about the founders and their religious views.  Paul Matzko, historian and researcher with the Cato Institute and Anna Berkes, librarian at Monticello's Jefferson Library talk to me about the persistence of these stories throughout the history of the U.S.

Then, I fact-check a fable involving Thomas Jefferson and Daniel Webster which has been lately told by Eric Metaxas and David Barton but has been around since 1858. This is an episode which demonstrates how to examine the context and facts of historical claims. Specifically, I address the claims that Thomas Jefferson told Daniel Webster, "I have always said, and I always will say, that the studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands."

The next regular episode -- Whitewashing Jefferson -- will come out on February 21.

There is much more about these fables in our book Getting Jefferson Right. More information about the book is at GettingJeffersonRight.com.

Music for today's episode was provided by Jonathan Swaim, Greg Thornbury, the Columbia Quartet, and Warren Throckmorton. 

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What was so wrong with The Jefferson Lies that Thomas Nelson decided to pull the book from publication? In this episode, Michael Coulter and Warren Throckmorton start answering that question by pulling  material from their book, Getting Jefferson Right.

In this episode, we take long looks into Barton’s handling of the Danbury Baptist letter to Thomas Jefferson, the Jefferson Bible, and a fable about Jefferson and church attendance.  We show how the use of ellipses, second and third-hand sources, and a creative imagination can make historical fiction out of history.

SHOW NOTES:

The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth (The 1820 Jefferson Bible)
https://uuhouston.org/files/The_Jefferson_Bible.pdf

Letter from the Danbury Baptists
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-35-02-0331

Letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-36-02-0152-0006

Telling Jefferson Lies is written and produced by Warren Throckmorton. Today’s installment was hosted by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter. The podcast is brought to you by the second edition of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson by Throckmorton and Coulter and available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or just about anywhere books are sold.

For more information, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. 

The next episode Whitewash will post in two weeks on February 21. In the meantime, I plan a bonus episode for sometime next week. Stay tuned for that. 

Today’s closing song is "Ain’t It a Shame to Work on Sunday" by the Bethel Jubilee Quartet and written by T.H. Wiseman. Telling Jefferson Lies Theme song is "The World Awaits Us All" by Roman Candle. Background music was provided by Roman Candle and Warren Throckmorton. 

I want to acknowledge Right Wing Watch for providing many video clips on YouTube.

Please like the podcast and spread the word on social media. Every podcaster says that but it really does help and it makes us feel good too. 

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In 2012, only four months after release, publisher Thomas Nelson removed David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies from publication.  Many people blamed or credited a book by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter titled Getting Jefferson Right for moving the publisher in that direction. What happened?

Building on the foundation of the first two episodes, this installment in the Telling Jefferson Lies series provides the backstory to what was an unprecedented event for one of the largest Christian publishers in the nation. Warren Throckmorton interviews many of the people who were involved and supplies his perspective on what happened and why it happened.

Interviews with historians Greg Forster, Glenn Sunshine, Gregg Frazer, Glenn Moots, Troy Jackson, David Austin Walsh, journalist Bob Smietana and Getting Jefferson Right co-author Michael Coulter pull back the curtain on an event that exposed the deficits in Christian nationalist story telling.

Show Notes:

For more information about Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.

Telling Jefferson Lies is written and produced by Warren Throckmorton. Today’s installment was hosted by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter. The podcast is brought to you by the second edition of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson by Throckmorton and Coulter and available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop.org or just about anywhere books are sold.

For more information, go to gettingjeffersonright.com.

Today’s closing song is Sparkle by Dustin Blatnik. Telling Jefferson Lies Theme song is The World Awaits Us All by Roman Candle. Background music was provided by Jonathan Swaim, Dustin Blatnik, Larry Norman and Warren Throckmorton.

For more information about Dustin Blatnik, go to www.DustinBlatnik.com

For more music from Roman Candle, go to Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3V65gQpFTfYzIOqjOf18eS

At the end of the series, watch for a playlist of as many songs from the series as I can compile on Spotify and Amazon. 

Dreams on a Grey Afternoon appears courtesy of Charles Norman and the Larry Norman estate. 

Please like the podcast and spread the word on social media. Every podcaster says that but it really does help and it makes us feel good too. 

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"You know, he is the where's Waldo of the movement. He's a little bit everywhere."  Katherine Stewart, author of Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Christian Nationalism. 

"He's managed to create a kind of brand in a way for himself through Wallbuilders of being a trusted authority on the American past." Randall Stephens, professor of American Studies at the University of Oslo in Norway.

In this episode, we examine how David Barton bounced back from his early problems and thrived by creating a brand as a trusted authority on American history. His packed schedule of activities and organizations made him indispensable to the Christian right.

We also examine what makes the Christian nationalist message so attractive to evangelicals and why many may not care about allegations of bad history or faulty facts.

This episode sets up the next episode, The Cataclysm, which will tell what happened to David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies, the book that was pulled from publication by Thomas Nelson after only being out for 4 months.

SHOW NOTES:

Separation of Church and State website:
https://candst.tripod.com/tnpintro.htm

A critique of David Barton's views of church and state
https://bjconline.org/a-critique-of-david-bartons-views-on-church-and-state/

Chris Rodda - Liars for Jesus
https://bookshop.org/p/books/liars-for-jesus-the-religious-right-s-alternate-version-of-american-history-vol-1-chris-rodda/7396939?ean=9781523284139

Music:

Roman Candle on Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3V65gQpFTfYzIOqjOf18eS

Theme song: The World Awaits Us All by Roman Candle

Closing song: The End of the Street by Roman Candle

Background music: Jonus Fair, Jonathan Swaim, Roman Candle & Warren Throckmorton

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In April 2012, Thomas Nelson published The Jefferson Lies, a book about Thomas Jefferson written by David Barton. By August of the same year, the publisher had removed the book from publication. What happened?

This series tells that story and so much more.

Just over a decade later, the Speaker of the House of Representatives declared his thanks to the same David Barton for his work in history.

This series explores how historical revisionism persists even when it can be demonstrated that the facts are not there.

First, I provide some context for the current characters. In this initial installment, I go back and pick up the origin story of David Barton and his entrance into Christian nation storytelling. Although he has no academic preparation as a historian, that fact hasn't dissuaded evangelicals from flocking to hear him. As is sometimes the case, evangelicals use religious similarity as a misleading signal of expertise. This sets up the story of how The Jefferson Lies was pulled from publication and the role of Getting Jefferson Right in that event.

More broadly, the expert historians and scholars I have interviewed will help us understand the pitfalls of Christian nationalism and the revisionist history which sustains it. Ultimately in the series, I want to explore the remarkable American story of religious pluralism and freedom of conscience.

In this episode, Julie Ingersoll, John Fea, Rob Boston,  and Gregg Frazer provide insightful commentary. 

Show Notes:

Danbury Baptists and the wall of separation (links)

The letter from the Danbury Baptist Association to Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists

Trends in violent crime (links)

American Homicide by Randolph Roth

Long-term Historical Trends in Violent Crime by Manuel Eisner

A crime puzzle: Violent crime declines in America by Claude Fischer

The Bible in Schools and Violent Crime by Warren Throckmorton
 
Theme song: The World Awaits Us All - Roman Candle

Closing song: The Fight From Me - Greg Thornbury

Background music: Jonathan Swaim, Roman Candle, Warren Throckmorton

I want to thank Mike Cosper for wisdom and advice. I want to thank Greg Thornbury, Roman Candle, and Jonathan Swaim for sharing their advice and talents. 

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Telling Jefferson Lies not only documents the role of revisionist history in the maintenance of Christian nationalism, it addresses what Christian nationalism is about.  This weekend seems like a good time to preview that aspect of the series. 

The series starts in two weeks with a look at the origin story of America's Premier Historian, followed by an examination of the cataclysm of The Jefferson Lies of 2012. Then we take a look at a brief year long window when evangelical leaders had a choice about what to do with Christian nationalist revisionist history. There always is a choice, but for a brief window of time, evangelical leaders actually took some steps to hold Christian story tellers accountable. However, almost as quickly as the opportunity came, it vanished into the conspiracy of silence that continues until today.

The guest speakers on today's preview are Julie Ingersoll, Katherine Stewart, and Paul Matzko. I start us off and finish up.

Julie Ingersoll is professor of religious studies at the University of North Florida. She is the author of Building God's Kingdom: Inside the World of Christian Reconstructionism.

Katherine Stewart is an investigative reporter and author who has covered religious liberty, politics, policy, and education for over a decade. Her latest book is The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism.

Paul Matzko is a historian and research fellow for media studies at the Cato Institute. He is the author of The Radio Right: How a Band of Broadcasters Took on the Federal Government and Built the Modern Conservative Movement.

If you haven't listened to the first two trailers, go give them a listen and please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Background music "Debris" by Roman Candle - used by kind permission. 

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A brief preview of the upcoming series Telling Jefferson Lies.

Telling Jefferson Lies chronicles how history can be hijacked for ideological and political purposes. We begin with the extraordinary story of how David Barton’s best-selling book about Thomas Jefferson was pulled from publication due to historical errors. After telling that backstory, some of which has never been disclosed, we described the reaction of the academic and church worlds. How Christian nationalists reacted moves us into a much broader story about the consequences of believing myths and failing to get history right.

In the academic world, having a book pulled for reasons relating to errors would be a career-ending event. However, the Thomas Nelson episode barely hindered David Barton and Christian nationalist history. Why is that? In this series, we explore the differences and why the evangelical world can't seem to quit faulty history. 

The podcast takes material from the new second edition of the book Getting Jefferson Right by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter and available at online booksellers and gettingjeffersonright.com.  

Subscribe today and watch for additional previews before the anticipated mid-January launch. 

SHOW NOTES

John Stonestreet, "Getting Jefferson Right", The Point Blog. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka0aFra8RfU

Music by Warren Throckmorton

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This is the first teaser/trailer for the podcast series which begins in January, 2024.

Show Notes:

The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill by Christianity Today, hosted by Mike Cosper, from Episode 11, The Tempest. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/tempest-mars-hill-driscoll.html.

Music by Warren Throckmorton

For more information about Getting Jefferson Right: Fact-Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. When you buy the book, make sure you get the second edition which just came out in 2023.