Blake Oliver sits down with Brannon Poe of Poe Group Advisors to discuss the differences between traditional and subscription-based virtual accounting firms. Brannon shares his expertise on firm valuation, revealing that factors like cash flow to owner and owner hours play a significant role in determining a firm's value. He also emphasizes the importance of pricing strategies, noting that implementing value pricing and subscription models can dramatically improve a firm's profitability and overall value. Throughout the conversation, Brannon provides valuable insights and real-world examples to help firm owners maximize their firm's value in preparation for a potential sale.

Meet Our Guest, Brannon Poe

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/poe-group-advisors/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/poegroupadvisor
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PoeGroupAdvisors/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poegroup/

Learn more about Poe Group Advisors

Website: https://poegroupadvisors.com/

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• (00:51) - Traditional vs. Subscription Accounting Firms

Transcripts

The full transcript for this episode is available by clicking on the Transcript tab at the top of this page

Blake and David take a dive into Google's decision to offshore accounting jobs to Mexico and India, which Google’s CFO claims is necessary to free up resources to invest in AI. They also discuss the stagnation of CPA salaries despite a shortage of talent. The conversation touches on a variety of other topics, including the modernization of the IRS, the future of the CPA profession, and advice for young accountants looking to carve their own career paths in a rapidly changing industry.

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• (05:53) - Blake reads some tweets about hours people are working during busy season

Show Notes

Google restructures finance team as part of AI shift, CFO tells employees in memo

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/google-restructures-finance-team-as-a-part-of-ai-shift-cfo-tells-employees-in-memo.html

Josh Youngblood, EA didn’t work over 40 hours per week in tax season

https://x.com/joshyoungblood/status/1779858374403747847?s=12

Skills-Based Hiring Can Shred the Paper Ceiling | BCG

https://www.bcg.com/capabilities/diversity-inclusion/expert-insights/skill-based-hiring-can-shred-paper-ceiling

The Office Market Is in Turmoil. So Why Are Rents More Expensive? – WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/commercial/the-office-market-is-in-turmoil-so-why-are-rents-more-expensive-d096f961?st=9ieavh5j7ep3wcw

Florida Legislature Passes Bill Creating New Retired CPA Status | Florida Institute of CPAs

https://www.ficpa.org/publication/florida-legislature-passes-bill-creating-new-retired-cpa-status

Kyle J. Bauman, CPA on X: "“Unlimited PTO” “Only 2100 Hours”

https://twitter.com/kjb_cpa/status/1763595505928442248

62% of Americans Lack a College Degree. Can They Solve the Labor Shortage?

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/employers-open-more-doors-to-workers-without-degrees-but-few-are-getting-in-732f1098

Senior Leaders Nearly Twice as Likely To Receive AI Resources as Junior Staff | CFO

https://www.cfo.com/news/senior-leaders-are-nearly-twice-as-likely-to-receive-ai-guidance/707230/

IRS didn't remove contractors' access to sensitive information | Accounting Today

https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/irs-didnt-remove-contractors-access-to-sensitive-information

Boston mulls commercial tax hike        

https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/boston-mulls-commercial-tax-hike-to-counter-office-market-slump

IRS Commissioner Delivers End Of Tax Filing Season Message Touting Improvements

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2024/04/15/irs-commissioner-delivers-end-of-tax-filing-season-message-touting-improvements/

Florida Creates New Status for Retired CPAs in the State          

https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/2024/04/15/florida-creates-new-status-for-retired-cpas-in-the-state/103983/

Treasury cash balance jumps most in 2 years as tax payments rise

https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/treasury-cash-balance-jumps-most-in-2-years-as-tax-payments-rise

The rise of the remote accounting firm partner               

https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/the-rise-of-the-remote-accounting-firm-partner

Werfel sees IRS budget request yielding $341B in extra revenue

https://www.cfodive.com/news/werfel-sees-irs-budget-request-yielding-341b-extra-revenue-tax-taxation-enforcement/713534/

Google restructures finance team as part of AI shift, CFO tells employees in memo

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/google-restructures-finance-team-as-a-part-of-ai-shift-cfo-tells-employees-in-memo.html

Despite moratorium, IRS gets 20,000 ERC claims weekly, Werfel says

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2024/apr/despite-moratorium-irs-gets-20000-erc-claims-weekly-werfel-says.html

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Blake and David delve into the effects of remote work on accountant salaries and the mental health challenges faced by auditors at Big Four firms. They inspect a recent study showing lower pay for hybrid workers compared to fully remote or in-office employees. They also contemplate the future of work organization inspired by Bill Anderson, CEO of Bayer, and discuss the potential impact of AI on the accounting profession, the accuracy of AI-related surveys, and the misrepresentation of AI capabilities in recent news headlines.

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• (00:34) - Will accountants soon earn overtime pay?

Show Notes

71% of Big 4 Auditors Worry About Mental Health | CFO             

https://www.cfo.com/news/71-of-big-4-auditors-worry-about-mental-health/712063/

Will Getting Rid of Bosses Fix the Workplace? - The Journal. - WSJ Podcasts

https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/will-getting-rid-of-bosses-fix-the-workplace/fc0d31d3-2d08-441e-abd8-d77b660fe258

59% of accountants use AI to save about 30 hours a week on tasks | Accounting Today

https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/59-of-accountants-use-ai-to-save-about-30-hours-a-week-on-tasks

Y Combinator wants to fund new enterprise resource planning (ERP) software"

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3-zHmOIqbI/?igsh=dTMxMDBjNGg3a2p0

Ohtani translator charged with stealing millions for 19,000 bets | Accounting Today

https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/ohtani-translator-charged-with-stealing-millions-for-19-000-bets

KPMG Fined Record $25 Million in Exam-Cheating Scandal – WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/articles/kpmg-fined-25-million-over-alleged-netherlands-exam-cheating-a4dcba2a?st=yl6xiqm8nh6gug8

Botkeeper Infinite replaces outsourcing with more AI to help firms automate | Accounting Today

https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/botkeeper-infinite-replaces-outsourcing-with-more-ai-to-help-firms-automate

More Companies Adopt 4-Day Work Week - CPA Practice Advisor        

https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/2024/03/27/more-companies-adopt-4-day-work-week/103199/

When Layoffs Happen, Remote Workers Are Hardest Hit - WSJ               

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/layoffs-remote-work-data-980ed59d?reflink=integratedwebview_share

Does Working from Home Boost Productivity Growth? | San Francisco Fed     

https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2024/january/does-working-from-home-boost-productivity-growth/

Trump Media's Accounting Firm Has Audit Deficiency History 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-media-accounting-firm-history-150150627.html

Amazon's Just Walk Out Actually Uses 1,000 People in India

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazons-just-walk-out-actually-1-000-people-in-india-2024-4

PCAOB Wallops KPMG Netherlands With Record $25M Fine For Exam Cheating

https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/2024/04/10/pcaob-wallops-kpmg-in-the-netherlands-with-25-million-fine-for-exam-cheating/103803/

PCAOB crackdown shifting to focus on auditing firms

https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/pcaob-crackdown-shifting-to-focus-on-auditing-firms

PCAOB Proposal Would Require Audit Firms to Disclose a Variety of Metrics

https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/2024/04/10/pcaob-issues-proposal-requiring-audit-firms-to-disclose-variety-of-metrics/103758/

PCAOB proposals call for firms to disclose more about themselves

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2024/apr/pcaob-proposals-call-firms-to-disclose-more-about-themselves.html

Only 48% of accounting, consulting, legal, and private capital professionals have used AI tools at work despite near ...

Joe Woodard joins Blake and David to examine how accountants and bookkeepers can increase the value of their services in the eyes of their clients. Joe introduces the Cobb value curve, illustrating how differentiation and relative value impact pricing. He emphasizes the importance of offering unique, high-value services like controllership and financial planning to stand out from commoditized offerings and command premium prices.

Meet Our Guest, Joe Woodard

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/quickbooksadvisor
Twitter: https://twitter.com/joewoodard

Learn more about Woodard

Website: http://www.woodard.com

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Transcripts

The full transcript for this episode is available by clicking on the Transcript tab at the top of this page

Blake and David dive into the concerning trend of small CPA firms conducting shoddy audits of large companies and SPACs, raking in big fees while facing minimal consequences for deficient work. They also discuss the latest accounting app funding news, the power of AI for crafting persuasive arguments, and the American Institute of CPAs' puzzling resistance to changes in CPA licensure requirements and touch on the growing importance of client accounting services for public accounting firms.

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• (00:38) - Blake is back from a conference in Atlanta

Show Notes

Fieldguide Raises $30 Million to Combat CPA Shortage With AI

https://www.pymnts.com/news/investment-tracker/2024/fieldguide-raises-30-million-to-combat-cpa-shortage-with-ai/

AI accounting startup raises $100M

https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/ai-accounting-startup-fundguard-raises-100m-in-new-funds

On the Conversational Persuasiveness of Large Language Models: A Randomized Controlled Trial (PDF) 

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2403.14380.pdf?utm_source=www.therundown.ai&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nvidia-s-new-ai-chip-competitor

The year CAS took over

https://www.accountingtoday.com/opinion/the-year-cas-took-over-accounting

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Thanks for listening and the great reviews! We appreciate you! Follow and tweet @BlakeTOliver and @DavidLeary. Find us on Facebook and Instagram. If you like what you hear, please do us a favor and write a review on Apple Podcasts or Podchaser. Call us and leave a voicemail; maybe we'll play it on the show. DIAL (202) 695-1040.

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Transcripts

The full transcript for this episode is available by clicking on the Transcript tab at the top of this page

Blake and David dig through the latest accounting news, including the effectiveness of pizza parties in boosting accounting firm morale, the record number of baby boomers reaching retirement age, and the impact on Social Security, as well as the massive amount of COVID-related fraud originating in South Florida. They also take a look at audit integrity issues, the long working hours in accounting, and some of the latest app headlines.

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• (00:22) - Thomson Reuters says pizza parties boost accountants morale

Show Notes

FTX Founder Sam Bankman-Fried Sentenced to 25 Years https://www.wsj.com/finance/currencies/sam-bankman-fried-sentencing-ftx-fraud-2d92fce9?st=d45lmr6uc8gg6wc

Trump ‘cheats like a mafia accountant’ at golf, writer who played with him says - pennlive.com https://www.pennlive.com/news/2024/03/trump-cheats-like-a-mafia-accountant-at-golf-writer-who-played-with-him-says.html

Big 4 Transparency - Awards Season 🏆
https://big4transparency.beehiiv.com/p/big-4-transparency-awards-season?utm_source=big4transparency.beehiiv.com&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=big-4-transparency-awards-season

PCAOB bars Colorado firm Gries & Associates from doing audits | Accounting Today
https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/pcaob-bars-colorado-firm-from-doing-audits

San Francisco 49ers docked 2025 fifth-round draft pick for accounting error | FOX Sports
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/san-francisco-49ers-docked-2025-fifth-round-draft-pick-for-accounting-error

Grant Thornton gets major PE stake from New Mountain Capital | Accounting Today
https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/grant-thornton-gets-major-pe-stake

How Miami Became a Hub of PPP Fraud After Pandemic

https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/2024/03/26/how-miami-became-a-hub-of-ppp-fraud-after-pandemic/103156/

Audit Plan to Flag Illegal Acts Needs Do-Over, Critics Charge

https://news.bloombergtax.com/financial-accounting/audit-plan-to-flag-illegal-acts-needs-do-over-critics-charge

Blackrock larry fink annual letter 8484e68e      

https://www.wsj.com/finance/investing/blackrock-larry-fink-annual-letter-8484e68e

Ahead of sentencing, SBF team argues for 5-6 years in jail because FTX customers will get money back          

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/27/sbf-team-argues-for-5-6-year-sentence-ftx-customers-to-get-money-back.html

The Home Stretch: Strategies & insights for today’s tax professionals as their busy season concludes              

https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en-us/posts/tax-and-accounting/home-stretch-tax-professionals/

Trump's social media company rises 16% in first day trading gains, but the stock could fall 95%, says an IPO expert  

https://fortune.com/2024/03/26/trump-social-media-rises-trading-gains-fall-expert/

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried gets 25 years in prison           

https://www.bankingdive.com/news/sam-bankman-fried-25-years-prison-fraud-conspiracy-ftx-crypto-sbf-kaplan-alameda/711601/

IRS Criminal Investigation Says COVID-Related Fraud Totaled Nearly $9 Billion

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2024/03/28/irs-criminal-investigation-says-covid-related-fraud-totaled-nearly-9-billion/

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Blake and David meet with M&A advisor Charles Bedard about valuations for accounting firms looking to sell. Bedard explains that subscription-based "modern" firms command much higher multiples than traditional hourly billing firms. Bedard provides specific valuation ranges based on revenue and EBITDA multiples and highlights the importance of recurring revenue. He also offers actionable tips for firm owners to increase their value in preparation for an exit.

Meet Our Guest, Charles Bedard

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesbedard/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SolvingtheValue

Learn more about ERGO Comps, LLC

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Transcripts

The full transcript for this episode is available by clicking on the Transcript tab at the top of this page

Blake and David look at the potential impact of AI on the accounting profession and discuss how AI tools like ChatGPT can boost productivity by automating tasks, improving communication, and assisting with problem-solving. They also examine the implications of these efficiency gains on the billable hour, predicting that firms will need to adapt their pricing strategies as a result. Finally, they review the results of a recent Accounting Today survey, which reveals accountants' perceptions and concerns about AI in the profession.

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• (02:24) - The inefficiency at Disney World compared to accountants and timesheets

Show Notes

JPMorgan Says Its AI Cashflow Tool Cut Human Work Almost 90%

https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/jpmorgan-says-its-ai-cashflow-tool-cut-human-work-almost-90/470682

Accounting's reluctant AI revolution    

https://www.accountingtoday.com/research-report/accountings-reluctant-ai-revolution

Firms find it’s cool to be kind    

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2024/mar/firms-find-its-cool-to-be-kind.html

Bank Of America CashPro Forecasting               

https://business.bofa.com/en-us/content/cashpro-forecasting.html

Americans Don’t Care as Much About Work. And It Isn’t Just Gen Z.
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/americans-attitude-work-data-0c2e487c?st=zyx80zw1zyfu1jf

Gratitude is Better Than a Pay Raise for 55% of U.S. Workers, Survey Finds
https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/2024/02/29/gratitude-is-better-than-a-pay-raise-for-55-of-u-s-workers/102148/

12 ChatGPT Prompts For Leaders And Managers In 2024

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelwells/2024/01/23/12-chatgpt-prompts-for-leaders-and-managers-in-2024/

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Transcripts

The full transcript for this episode is available by clicking on the Transcript tab at the top of this page

Professor Ed Ketz of Penn State joins the show to discuss audits' current state and future. We delve into the relevance of audits and explore the value of unqualified opinions in making audits meaningful. The discussion also touches on the overstandardization of audit reports and how this can lead to investor misunderstandings. Professor Ketz brings a unique perspective, sparking a debate on whether the existence of the unqualified opinion creates value rather than the content within. The episode ends with a brainstorm on potential regulation improvements to improve audit quality and usefulness.

Meet Our Guest, Ed Ketz

Website: https://directory.smeal.psu.edu/k55

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-ketz-7982421a7

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Transcripts

The full transcript for this episode is available by clicking on the Transcript tab at the top of this page

Blake and David start with a discussion on Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell's testimony regarding the failure of small and mid-sized banks due to exposure to the commercial real estate sector. They also get into Minnesota's CPA licensure bill for 150-hour requirement alternatives and KPMG's audit findings on the Department of Education and the cost of the federal student loan program. Rounding out the episode, they answer listener questions and comments on topics including the psychological challenges of CPA firm employment, NASBA's lack of customer service, and the high fees for taking the CPA exam internationally.

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• (00:28) - Welcome to the show, how much trouble are small banks in?

Show Notes

Could CPAs telling their stories be the key to attracting Gen Zers to accounting? A PwC vice chair thinks so   

https://fortune.com/2023/11/15/cpa-attracting-gen-z-accounting-pwc/

Senate File 1660, the MNCPA-backed bill to broaden the pathways to CPA licensure, advanced in the Minnesota Senate on Thursday.     

https://www.mncpa.org/about/press/releases/pathways-cpa-senate-bill-hearing/

Powell: ‘There will be bank failures’ caused by commercial real estate losses

https://thehill.com/business/4516758-powell-there-will-be-bank-failures-caused-by-commercial-real-estate-losses/

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Transcripts

The full transcript for this episode is available by clicking on the Transcript tab at the top of this page