00:21:22
Macara Slobodian: Good afternoon. today is Sunday, January 18, 2026. We are here,
Aliasgar Moosa: Sloian.
Macara Slobodian: not with any shortage of tech challenges, but we are here.
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, I thought that was a Sienna word. Tech challenges.
Macara Slobodian: Well, I suppose I’ve stolen it. Or maybe I need to come up with one for myself. Sienna, if you’re listening,
Aliasgar Moosa: No,
Macara Slobodian: I am sorry for stealing your
Aliasgar Moosa: no, no.
Macara Slobodian: word.
Aliasgar Moosa: Well, no. I’m I’m just
Macara Slobodian: No, I know. I know.
Aliasgar Moosa: joking.
Macara Slobodian: You know, I had I had to joke around a little bit, though. It took a minute to kind of get things sorted here, and it You know,
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, I know.
00:22:07
Aliasgar Moosa: But Oh,
Macara Slobodian: we have to laugh about it,
Aliasgar Moosa: sure.
Macara Slobodian: don’t we?
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah. So, what exactly happened? Do we want to fill uh how about you fill uh how how about how about you fill the um how about you fill us in on what happened?
Macara Slobodian: Well, the short answer is the beginning part is that I well the
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, no. We want the long answer, not the short answer.
Macara Slobodian: first part of it I’m not quite sure because I had joined and just just to clue you all in now. We are once again experimenting with meat. So I joined from the calendar and that all went fine.
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh no.
Macara Slobodian: No uh no hiccups. got in. I could see that you were in the meeting as well, Ally. And I was going for the meeting tools to kind of pause the recording before we start and all the sorts of things we normally do before we get properly going and um whatever little Gemini notification it was giving me, it was not for one thing, it wasn’t letting me exit out of it.
00:23:09
Macara Slobodian: For another, I couldn’t hear anything. I couldn’t see any of the usual tools and things. So, of course, I’m messaging you, Ally. I’m I’m seeing, can you hear me? I know you’re here, too. And what what was going on on your end? Like, what what were you observing at this
Aliasgar Moosa: Um,
Macara Slobodian: point?
Aliasgar Moosa: basically as I came in, I was trying and and I I I said something, but it turns out you couldn’t hear me.
Macara Slobodian: No, I couldn’t.
Aliasgar Moosa: So then it then I don’t know whether you had left or what happened.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, cuz then at one point I went to the top and it was like, oh, return to home screen. And I thought, oh, return to the home screen within the call. No, no, no. That’s when it gives you the join and all such and I thought that’s when I realized I had inadvertently left. So I just closed it, went back to the link and then did that again. And of course that second time you could hear me and it looked mostly good.
00:24:14
Macara Slobodian: Apart from the fact that that time I believe I joined with the wrong account because then I couldn’t get the the meeting tools properly.
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh man, I have to be honest here. Well, listen here. Wait a minute. I’m going to back this up a bit. I’m gonna We’re gonna backtrack a sec.
Macara Slobodian: Okay.
Aliasgar Moosa: We around here at the Mus Labodian Network are always honest about things.
Macara Slobodian: Yes. I’m a bit nervous in this moment about it, but yes,
Aliasgar Moosa: No, you don’t nervous.
Macara Slobodian: we are.
Aliasgar Moosa: You don’t need to be nervous.
Macara Slobodian: Okay.
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, no. What? What are we nervous about? There’s nothing to be nervous about. What are we nervous about?
Macara Slobodian: Just just wondering what the backtracking is going to imply and is going to entail
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh,
Macara Slobodian: here.
Aliasgar Moosa: no. But there’s nothing nothing to be nothing to be nervous
Macara Slobodian: Okay,
Aliasgar Moosa: about.
Macara Slobodian: I’ll take your word.
00:25:08
Macara Slobodian: Please go ahead.
Aliasgar Moosa: No, we No, that that was the backtrack of we of we are always honest around
Macara Slobodian: That was the backtrack.
Aliasgar Moosa: here.
Macara Slobodian: Oh, okay. We’re clarifying. We’re clarifying. Got it.
Aliasgar Moosa: Okay.
Macara Slobodian: Got
Aliasgar Moosa: So,
Macara Slobodian: it.
Aliasgar Moosa: now see, uh to to to back up a little further though,
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: um we use the word experiment. We are experimenting once again, quote unquote. quote with meat.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, that was perhaps not the right
Aliasgar Moosa: Well, no, no, no. It was the right word.
Macara Slobodian: word.
Aliasgar Moosa: It was because here is a here is the is another piece to the honesty.
Macara Slobodian: Yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: The experiment may have actually
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: just in terms of an idea. The experiment may be done playing around with
Macara Slobodian: What about playing around with?
Aliasgar Moosa: the experimentation of playing
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: around with meat. There is a very very there’s a 95% possibility or a chance here that the
00:27:07
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: experimentation may just be maybe maybe done and put to bed.
Macara Slobodian: Oh, no. Really?
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes.
Macara Slobodian: Because of all these little things or or because of what exactly?
Aliasgar Moosa: Well, I I don’t know.
Macara Slobodian: What what is it that you don’t
Aliasgar Moosa: Well, I don’t know.
Macara Slobodian: know?
Aliasgar Moosa: Um see because see experiment see while experimentation has been good right are are we
Macara Slobodian: Right. Yeah, we’re
Aliasgar Moosa: here while experimentation
Macara Slobodian: here.
Aliasgar Moosa: is good and we’ve had our fun of experimentations together with
Macara Slobodian: Yes,
Aliasgar Moosa: it.
Macara Slobodian: we’ve certainly had our share of them.
Aliasgar Moosa: A fun experimentations and no
Macara Slobodian: Agreed. No,
Aliasgar Moosa: regrets.
Macara Slobodian: absolutely none.
Aliasgar Moosa: You know, we got to learn things together in the process.
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: We got to learn things in the process.
Macara Slobodian: Yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: But but but
Macara Slobodian: But
Aliasgar Moosa: we are going to come up with something solid here. And like we did for the past few months before we started experimenting again
00:29:12
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: is before we started experimenting again is is stick with consistency and what works.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, even though because there is still the argument that meat is included within workspace and that’s a bit more value for money that way, right?
Aliasgar Moosa: There is but it’s about what the but there is but not at any expense though right not at any expense of solidity.
Macara Slobodian: True
Aliasgar Moosa: Not at the expense of solidity of solidness as they call
Macara Slobodian: enough.
Aliasgar Moosa: it. Not at not at the expense of solidness, right?
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. And I mean, I wonder if it’s just needing to have to use meat as that consistent thing and just to kind of really get used to it again.
Aliasgar Moosa: Well, I mean, I I think like see I I I don’t disagree with that there, but there are things that there are things I personally wouldn’t use meat for uh
Macara Slobodian: What would those be?
Aliasgar Moosa: tutorials. Um uh tutorials,
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: I wouldn’t use it. Um, I I wouldn’t, you know, I I would only probably I would only really use it for quick like not quick, but say a meeting that didn’t um that just involved just like a planning meeting or something.
00:31:11
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: I would probably just use it for something like that.
Macara Slobodian: Oh, you would use meat for that. Is that what you’re
Aliasgar Moosa: Well, I wouldn’t have to,
Macara Slobodian: saying?
Aliasgar Moosa: but I mean, if I had to use it, those would be situ that would be a situation I would
Macara Slobodian: So, that that one you would in the tutorials, not so much.
Aliasgar Moosa: tutorials. I wouldn’t even and maybe and I’ll even take it a step
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: further maybe even for a planning.
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: Not maybe I don’t like the word maybe to be honest with you.
Macara Slobodian: No.
Aliasgar Moosa: No.
Macara Slobodian: Okay.
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, we know what that
Macara Slobodian: Yep.
Aliasgar Moosa: means.
Macara Slobodian: Yep. We do.
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, man.
Macara Slobodian: Add it to the
Aliasgar Moosa: That Yes.
Macara Slobodian: list.
Aliasgar Moosa: um that even for those types of planning meetings or whatever, even for that, we wouldn’t prefer to use it.
Macara Slobodian: Right.
Aliasgar Moosa: It’s sort of one of those catches here that yes, it’s there, but the use out of that piece is not going to be the use out of that piece is not going to be very much on what it what it could have implied to be if it was a if it or what it what it could be or what it could have been in whatever situation.
00:32:58
Macara Slobodian: Mhm. And I think it’s interesting because earlier in the week we had kind of been talking about this before we started experimenting again and before we decided to experiment again with it and play around that we had been more so I guess you had been given the advice and you had forwarded it to me. I won’t name names here because it wasn’t bad advice. It was good for the use case and it was,
Aliasgar Moosa: No.
Macara Slobodian: you know, we were told that meat had been found to be a very smooth experience. And I don’t doubt that. I don’t doubt that for this person who provided this advice that it is.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes, that’s exactly it. Yep.
Macara Slobodian: I’m I’m not discounting that by any means. This person is very knowledgeable clearly. But we wouldn’t have anticipated the way that it sort of started up here today because it just seems like with meat, yes, it works and yes, we get in and of course we’re here now, but there just seems to often be these little tiny things that pop up unbidden that make it not more challenging but a little more you kind
00:34:22
Aliasgar Moosa: I I don’t mind that
Macara Slobodian: of yeah challenging but or or just in the sense that you have to navigate
Aliasgar Moosa: word.
Macara Slobodian: around them a bit more like they’re just a bit more of these obstacles.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah. I I I don’t like that aspect of it. I don’t like that aspect of it.
Macara Slobodian: No, I’m not terribly fond of it either.
Aliasgar Moosa: No. And honestly, for me, it doesn’t make I mean, for us, it doesn’t make a difference. Do you know why? Because we have Zoom already connected to Google Calendar. So, it makes the job that much easier and
Macara Slobodian: That’s true.
Aliasgar Moosa: better.
Macara Slobodian: So, even when you create an event on there, uh, when you schedule a meeting, it will let you automatically kind of put that in right after. And it’s not it’s really it’s not even any more steps than it is to
Aliasgar Moosa: No,
Macara Slobodian: create.
Aliasgar Moosa: no. And and actually how I do it because of course I use my desktop a lot more.
00:35:15
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: Um I also have the Chrome extension and the uh and the and the Zoom for Google the uh sorry the Google calendar zoom extension in Chrome. And I also have the um I
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: also have the um I also have the um the workspace the Google the Zoom for Google workspace add-on connected to my Google calendar uh as well. So, what this essentially means is that I don’t even have to go in to to the Zoom calendar interface to create um uh a manual meeting.
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: All I really have to I just create the new event as usual,
Macara Slobodian: Right.
Aliasgar Moosa: choose make it a Zoom meeting, and it would give me all the Zoom options I need.
Macara Slobodian: Ah, yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: And that’s a tutorial we’re going to do in a few
Macara Slobodian: Mhm. Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: weeks.
Macara Slobodian: And and really in either sense though, like even just for all of you out there in listener land, just for context, I personally tend to use my iPhone a bit more.
00:36:36
Macara Slobodian: And even for me, I I don’t doubt that those extensions make things quite a bit easier. It sounds like it makes things very efficient as does and I don’t even mind doing this just creating the Zoom meeting within the app very quickly and then you add your attendees you add in our case we often do alternative hosts for each other just in case of any drop offs etc. And um as soon as that’s all done, it gets you into the
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes, but there’s the extra.
Macara Slobodian: calendar.
Aliasgar Moosa: You see, but that now see on the desktop you don’t actually have to and that’s that’s an automatic that that’s that of of the calendar piece. Yeah,
Macara Slobodian: Right.
Aliasgar Moosa: that that’s an automatic piece because it uses cuz cuz doing it directly there. That is a feature we would that is something we’d like to show us though.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. Yeah. No, and I I would appreciate that very
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: much.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes. Um, no. No. I I do like here like the side is that that I do use my iPhone quite a bit, but most of the time I I find myself um always reverting to the desktop.
00:37:55
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, and I completely understand that. And my my saying that wasn’t in any way to comp compare them.
Aliasgar Moosa: No, no, no. I know. No, no, no. I know. No, no, no.
Macara Slobodian: It’s it’s just to say that neither is particularly difficult like
Aliasgar Moosa: I know that.
Macara Slobodian: in those
Aliasgar Moosa: No, no, you’re right. No, no,
Macara Slobodian: situations.
Aliasgar Moosa: no, no, no. But I I know, but I I was just sort of referring to it from a preference standpoint.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: And I don’t know why that is.
Macara Slobodian: And that’s
Aliasgar Moosa: I’ve tried to change that over the years. I’ve tried to change it.
Macara Slobodian: but you started out kind of with the computer more than anything, right? Before everything else.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: So that could kind of explain why because if that’s where you started, that’s where you’re you feel most at home and that’s fine.
Aliasgar Moosa: No, it is. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:41
Aliasgar Moosa: No, no, no. I Yeah. No, but I don’t know what like See, but I’ve tried to change that, right? I I’ve been trying to I’ve been trying to change it, but I don’t know.
Macara Slobodian: You have changed things somewhat though because now you’ve kind of migrated over to the PC for a lot of
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh,
Macara Slobodian: things.
Aliasgar Moosa: that’s been a good exp. Oh, I love that to personally. Yes, definitely.
Macara Slobodian: No. And that’s fantastic that you’ve had such a positive experience with it.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah, believe me. I mean, if I could, I’d probably give up the Mac if I could. Not like I probably to save some not give it up, but save more space in here on this desk.
Macara Slobodian: Uh yeah, that’s a big thing,
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah. But but see,
Macara Slobodian: too.
Aliasgar Moosa: we’re I’m we’re broadcasting today from the Mac. And where are we broadcasting from?
Macara Slobodian: You’re broadcasting from the
Aliasgar Moosa: We are broadcasting.
00:39:35
Macara Slobodian: studio.
Aliasgar Moosa: We are broadcasting you and I today and every show and every day,
Macara Slobodian: Yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: every show we are
Macara Slobodian: Oh, the Musa Sloian Network.
Aliasgar Moosa: broadcasting That’s
Macara Slobodian: SL uh was a Sloan Network studio. We got there.
Aliasgar Moosa: right.
Macara Slobodian: We got there. Why do I feel like that’s just the the catchphrase of the day is that we got there.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes. So, do we know what I want to talk about next?
Macara Slobodian: What’s that?
Aliasgar Moosa: I want to talk about The Bread Winner and how much I enjoy that book.
Macara Slobodian: Let’s do it. I think you said last week that there was a special story with that one and I’d love to hear it.
Aliasgar Moosa: Okay. So, yeah. So, um in this case, I am going to use a name because it’s just for for for credit and shout out
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, of course.
Aliasgar Moosa: sake.
Macara Slobodian: And it’s a story. It’s not as much of a like this just happened.
00:40:42
Macara Slobodian: It’s a different
Aliasgar Moosa: Yep. Yep. Exactly. Yep. So, um, I want to give a shout out to my grade six teacher,
Macara Slobodian: thing.
Aliasgar Moosa: Tim Nesbet, for initially introducing me to the book. Now, Tim, if you’re listening, we want to hear from you.
Macara Slobodian: Absolutely. Please.
Aliasgar Moosa: We We want to hear from you. Uh if you prefer you can you can send a note to ali musa atthe muslabianetwork.ca or reach out uh I don’t think we have an official the Muslabian network Facebook page yet.
Macara Slobodian: No, not just yet. We have a the Alli and Mara Show Facebook page if that is that is a
Aliasgar Moosa: Um
Macara Slobodian: current place where you can reach out if you
Aliasgar Moosa: yeah,
Macara Slobodian: wish.
Aliasgar Moosa: currently that’s there but that but stay tuned.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, stay tuned.
Aliasgar Moosa: Stay stay or stay right here and stay tuned. So yes, so reach out there.
Macara Slobodian: Yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: You can reach out there uh if you want, you know.
00:41:55
Aliasgar Moosa: So, there are tons of places you can reach us and you can tell us that you’re either listening or or put a comment in the uh if you’re if you’re uh if you’re watching us on YouTube, put a comment there in in the um in the in the show for
Macara Slobodian: Yeah,
Aliasgar Moosa: today,
Macara Slobodian: please do. That’s a great place to do
Aliasgar Moosa: you know.
Macara Slobodian: that.
Aliasgar Moosa: So, we are where you are. We are available where the eyeballs are. You know, you can listen to us there.
Macara Slobodian: Yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: You can even listen and and in fact, you can even if if you prefer even not you not the YouTube, you can listen to us in uh audio as
Macara Slobodian: Yeah,
Aliasgar Moosa: well.
Macara Slobodian: we we have reinstated the audio stream and that’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
Aliasgar Moosa: No, no, no, no, not at all. That’s why we’re keeping the Mac around.
Macara Slobodian: Yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: So yeah, so he met So Tim um uh um met Deborah Ellis.
00:43:02
Aliasgar Moosa: Now they didn’t they they apparently went to school. They went to school together, but they really didn’t know of each other or they but but one time he saw her and he’s like, “Was that you who wrote this book?” And he said and she said, “Yes.” So that was my very first time reading it. And then I think I read it a couple of years ago because if we look on our red shelf that it’s on our red
Macara Slobodian: Yeah,
Aliasgar Moosa: shelf and now
Macara Slobodian: I remember you putting it there a little while ago.
Aliasgar Moosa: of course we just added a date of reading of reading it and we actually have only 43 minutes left in
Macara Slobodian: Okay.
Aliasgar Moosa: that book. Now, my initial, you know, my my reaction to the
Macara Slobodian: I’m curious if it’s changed over the years when you’ve read it uh differently because of course
Aliasgar Moosa: book.
Macara Slobodian: when you’re in grade six it’s one thing and then your ideas and thoughts change as you grow up. So I’m wondering
00:44:06
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes. Now, one thing that kind of um it’s how See when like when like now I think of it at that time I didn’t of this piece but now their father when their father was whatever happened they’re saying arrested
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: where the older where parvana’s older sister Nura was act who hadn’t really who was still kind of who was still always very who was still very nasty to her despite that. Whereas the thinking would kind of see when it
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: comes to the realization, right? where the thinking kind of has to in that situation. Everyone has to still work together to, you know, to make sure that everything is settled in.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. And that’s that’s what you get more when Mrs. Wira starts to come around, right? That’s kind of the the messaging
Aliasgar Moosa: That’s right. That’s the messaging.
Macara Slobodian: there.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes. Of working together. But where the reaction in that type of situation really should be.
00:45:43
Aliasgar Moosa: And she did change a bit toward the end of the book.
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: Uh, Nuria that
Macara Slobodian: You’re
Aliasgar Moosa: is,
Macara Slobodian: right.
Aliasgar Moosa: but where now this has happened. I have to where I have to stop the nastiness and now it’s time to work together. It but it took Mrs.
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: Wira to sort of get that sorted.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. And I think unfortunately a lot of it came to from she’s a teenager and she’s dealing with all these Nura that is and she’s dealing with all these things and she’s terrified of what could happen to them and especially after her father is arrested like you see her reaction when that is taking place and she’s sort of the one who curls up in the corner right because sometimes soldiers do things to the the women and so I understand where a lot of it could have come. I’m not saying it’s correct of her. I’m just trying to and I I do completely agree with you. Like it does take Mrs. Wira to come in and say, “Okay, no, like everybody’s kind of got got to get out of their own heads and their own grief, I guess, to kind of because they still all have to survive.
00:47:22
Aliasgar Moosa: Now I agree, but I I still sort of I still sort of has to h but yes, but I mean but it still h but it doesn’t see when like being in that kind of situation it’s
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: different, right? Anybody who’s ever experienced that kind of situation would
Macara Slobodian: Of course. Like you can’t
Aliasgar Moosa: automatically say,
Macara Slobodian: It’s
Aliasgar Moosa: you know what, now is the like you wouldn’t even think about those teenage type things that dealing with this and dealing because it comes to a point where they have to get down to doing anything and everything to survive.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. And it’s not to say that she’s dealing with teenage things. It’s that she still technically is a child and she’s and of course so is Parvana, but Parvana is handling that very differently right from the beginning than Noria is.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes. But it’s also a case where um it’s but see that’s kind of what but see but that’s how it is in that part of the world right that that’s how it is in that part of the world where you know there isn’t
00:48:50
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: see everyone survival is at their own expense not at their own expense but is at their own sort of ways.
Macara Slobodian: Ew.
Aliasgar Moosa: So it’s very much a case where realizing that this is what the normal is and this is no longer a time where where that kind of behavior is to be.
Macara Slobodian: That’s interesting that you say specifically and this is this kind of brings up an interesting point I think when you say this is how it is in that part of the world and and absolutely you’re right and what I think is kind of fascinating about that and what kind of needs to be then looked at is because I read on on good readads and of course this might not be the most academically sound source but just in the description It kind of says how Parvana’s outlook and her sort of expression and and ways of kind of doing things are very westernized. And maybe that could be the case for Nura as well. Kind of those initial behaviors, right?
00:50:13
Macara Slobodian: Like instead of kind of leading into right like immediately the survival, it becomes kind of those pieces. And what’s interesting to me about that is the fact that Deborah Ellis is obviously a Canadian author. And I I don’t doubt one bit that she put a lot of work into writing this story. And if you if you read anything anywhere, it says that she did all these interviews at at refugee camps, right?
Aliasgar Moosa: Okay. She actually went to Afghanistan,
Macara Slobodian: And even in the beginning of the Yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: by the way.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, she did.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah,
Macara Slobodian: And and of course,
Aliasgar Moosa: she she did. Yeah. So,
Macara Slobodian: but there are I think it is worth saying and it doesn’t
Aliasgar Moosa: you go ahead.
Macara Slobodian: mean that this is that she’s wrong for ever having done it. It doesn’t mean that the book is discounted in any way. It’s a great book, but the the amount and the extent to which she can kind of portray that I would imagine becomes a little limited, right?
00:51:20
Aliasgar Moosa: Not really.
Macara Slobodian: No. Why? Why do you not think
Aliasgar Moosa: No, because because it was see
Macara Slobodian: so?
Aliasgar Moosa: because this was all because it’s um No, no, because see she because not only because her writing is actually based on a true story. Yes. The book itself is a f is fiction. The characters are fiction,
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: but it’s based off of a true it’s based off of the reality of life over there.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. And the accounts the accounts that she was able to
Aliasgar Moosa: And yes, yes,
Macara Slobodian: gather
Aliasgar Moosa: not only yes, that’s exactly it. Not only that but in Afghanistan that is actually what um what had happened see Afghanistan there were a lot of educated like people had pe educated people who and there still and they still could be but that was known for that people with like education and people with like a lot of good things used to come out of that country before the Taliban took
Macara Slobodian: And that’s a lot of what she indicates in the book, right?
00:52:44
Macara Slobodian: Like you get a bit of the history, you get a bit of even Pvana’s own parents are are well educated
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: people.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah. And that’s why right and that see and that’s why like and that’s sort of why I I I kind of come to that but I I don’t necessarily think I don’t feel in a way that it would be that of of it being limiting because she gathered up and not and stayed at and and uh you know I think she even uh you know stayed around there and tried to gather some things and that’s how she wrote the book.
Macara Slobodian: It does sound like it cuz now that you mentioned I think I saw somewhere that it was that it was months,
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah. She stayed in those refugee camps, I think.
Macara Slobodian: right? Like not just so
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: Right. So, but see, and that is really how it and and that’s how and that’s how life still continues to be in that part of the world.
00:53:52
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, unfortunately. Absolutely.
Aliasgar Moosa: It is unfortunate,
Macara Slobodian: And
Aliasgar Moosa: but that’s just but to them it’s kind of the normal or for them it’s the it’s the
Macara Slobodian: yeah, I will say, yeah,
Aliasgar Moosa: normal.
Macara Slobodian: I will say I had completely forgotten until rereading it about them digging up the bones to make more
Aliasgar Moosa: Uh yes.
Macara Slobodian: money.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah, that was a part of the bone digging p I did too personally. Yep. I forgot about that too.
Macara Slobodian: It It had been a long time for me as well, and I had I remembered that
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, for me it wasn’t that long ago.
Macara Slobodian: Parvana.
Aliasgar Moosa: I think it was only maybe I don’t know when the last time was I read it. A couple years ago,
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, because I remember that’s one you put on your red shelf.
Aliasgar Moosa: maybe
Macara Slobodian: Like I remember Parvana having to dress up as a boy and having to go to the market, but I forgot about the
Aliasgar Moosa: see and that also is that’s also a bit of
00:54:35
Macara Slobodian: bones.
Aliasgar Moosa: a reality of that I know for you know over there as well.
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: see that that’s just kind of the way life is over there. And you know, and see
Macara Slobodian: I will say it’s a very I still think it’s a very good entry point if you don’t know a lot about what went on with the Taliban and what possibly still goes on. What does still go on? Not even possibly it it does. But because see I came to it at a similar time in my schooling as you did. I my grade five teacher read it to us. So, it was it was very much sort of that introduction to this is what’s going on somewhere else in the world, especially for girls and women and all of the laws and the restrictions that are put into place for them. And I think,
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: sorry, go ahead.
Aliasgar Moosa: No. Go ahead.
Macara Slobodian: I think that might have also been around the same time as as um Malala Yusaf
00:56:01
Aliasgar Moosa: I am Malala.
Macara Slobodian: Yusafsai.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes,
Macara Slobodian: So it so it was very much absolutely so I think it
Aliasgar Moosa: good book. Another good book. Another good book.
Macara Slobodian: was very much the conversation at the time.
Aliasgar Moosa: And stones into schools as well. Uh Khaled Husini.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah. Right.
Aliasgar Moosa: Another good one.
Macara Slobodian: And I just remember having after finishing this one I because there are three more in this series and I I recall having read through all of them eventually at that
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah, I I only read the first one.
Macara Slobodian: time
Aliasgar Moosa: I haven’t read all three of them. Yeah, there’s like the bread winner number two and then there’s one on Pvana as well.
Macara Slobodian: and there’s one on specifically on uh Shazia as
Aliasgar Moosa: But yeah, like see yeah look and I look I’m I’m not like see the thing here is is that in this we are better off in this part of the world. We certainly are. Well, better I use
00:57:04
Macara Slobodian: in in those ways and and now it’s a very different thing.
Aliasgar Moosa: the
Macara Slobodian: But I I do see what you’re saying and and at the time of first having been read this book, that was very much the kind of rhetoric that we were getting taught and getting explained to us, which at the time was very true, by the way.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes.
Macara Slobodian: Much better even than now,
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: I would argue,
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: but
Aliasgar Moosa: You can’t really say that that we’re better. Well, we have a lot of Look, we do have equal rights.
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: I mean, but see, unfortunately, see, like I mean, it just kind of not to bring polit Well, well, they can tune to the Ali Musa show if they want to hear politics talk, but you know,
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: you can tune in there,
Macara Slobodian: Yeah,
Aliasgar Moosa: but but look, we talk around here about things. So,
Macara Slobodian: we do.
Aliasgar Moosa: you know,
Macara Slobodian: We do. But it’s it’s heavy to get into at
00:58:08
Aliasgar Moosa: it is.
Macara Slobodian: times.
Aliasgar Moosa: But no, but I mean, but but you kind of sometime you kind of have to though.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: Sometimes like you kind of have to.
Macara Slobodian: And it is important especially right now in the current moment.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah, you have to.
Macara Slobodian: You do
Aliasgar Moosa: I don’t like it, but you have to. Well, you have to. Like,
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: you have to be informed.
Macara Slobodian: And you can’t really abstain from having having some sort of discourse around it or having because then that’s just how things get worse. If you don’t talk about things, then you just kind of let them
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah,
Macara Slobodian: lie.
Aliasgar Moosa: you do. Yep. Yeah. But you know, but I mean I’m I mean you look at see I mean you’re looking at a lot of things now where the bigger picture of them the bigger picture of them are that right now yes in Canada we have equal
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: rights.
00:59:11
Aliasgar Moosa: Women have the same freedom as men do. As as women should,
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: we all I mean, sorry, as we all as we all should.
Macara Slobodian: Yeah, absolutely.
Aliasgar Moosa: As we all should. But yes, while people fought for these freedoms before us, I I don’t know what things I don’t know what you can say now.
Macara Slobodian: I feel like all you can say now is that that fight isn’t quite over.
Aliasgar Moosa: No. And I really don’t think it Go ahead.
Macara Slobodian: Like we still have to fight for those freedoms.
Aliasgar Moosa: Pardon me.
Macara Slobodian: We still do have to fight for those freedoms.
Aliasgar Moosa: We do. But I still think it’s going to be a long time before we can sort of, you know, that we can sort of put it all together. It kind of feels like things are taking a step back in a lot of ways.
Macara Slobodian: Yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: when we’re,
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: you know,
Macara Slobodian: And you you see that in America a lot.
01:00:29
Aliasgar Moosa: we’re not like, see, pardon,
Macara Slobodian: You see that in America a lot right
Aliasgar Moosa: you see it in America,
Macara Slobodian: now.
Aliasgar Moosa: but you also see, see, you’re also seeing it a little bit here. You know what I mean?
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: Cuz see, regardless of what anybody says, what happens there is also a a pretty huge impact here.
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: And it’s being
Macara Slobodian: And how would Yeah. And how would you say we’re taking steps back here
Aliasgar Moosa: felt
Macara Slobodian: specifically?
Aliasgar Moosa: here. Here I can’t say. And I knew you were going to ask me that. See, we knew we would ask us that.
Macara Slobodian: It’s the question.
Aliasgar Moosa: I know. I’m not dis I’m not, you know, I’m I’m not I’m not, you know, disputing questions.
Macara Slobodian: No. And I I’m not suggesting that you
Aliasgar Moosa: I love question.
Macara Slobodian: are.
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, come on. You know that,
Macara Slobodian: Of course.
Aliasgar Moosa: right? But but you know but you’re seeing like see you’re seeing a lot of things like you’re seeing a you’ve seen like see you’re seeing a lot of like for example you see a lot of like here the one thing that you are seeing is you’re seeing the crimes are continuing to increase.
01:02:06
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: you’re seeing a lot of that and a lot of times you’re seeing it with um you know like a lot of times shut down um the brailer. No, I don’t want it to shut down yet.
Macara Slobodian: every time.
Aliasgar Moosa: No, cuz it was
Macara Slobodian: No, that’s true.
Aliasgar Moosa: idling.
Macara Slobodian: That’s true. No, but you are seeing that increase and especially a lot of a lot of hate crimes
Aliasgar Moosa: you are. That’s Yep. Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: everywhere.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yep. You’re seeing a lot of hate crimes. And as much as I’d like to say that we’ll get better, I’m not like as much as look as look, I want to see things get better, but I I don’t know what to say.
Macara Slobodian: I I think it’s hard to feel like it’ll get better.
Aliasgar Moosa: That’s it.
Macara Slobodian: I think it’s it’s about I I want to I think I’m would rather believe in this
Aliasgar Moosa: Yep.
Macara Slobodian: point not not believe that we will get better but believe in our ability to get better.
01:03:28
Aliasgar Moosa: Well, I mean, it kind of means the same thing, doesn’t
Macara Slobodian: Well, no,
Aliasgar Moosa: it?
Macara Slobodian: because in some sense it’s like, oh, we absolutely will get better. And I’m not sure about that,
Aliasgar Moosa: No,
Macara Slobodian: but we are we are capable of getting
Aliasgar Moosa: I’m not either.
Macara Slobodian: better.
Aliasgar Moosa: We are, but it’s also going to get worse before it gets
Macara Slobodian: Yeah.
Aliasgar Moosa: better.
Macara Slobodian: But that’s what I mean is I’d rather believe in that capability that it is possible to get better. It’s not to say that it won’t get worse before it does,
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: but it’s it’s easier to say or I find it easier to say we can get better rather than oh, right now we definitely will because that’s not to your point that doesn’t feel very likely at this
Aliasgar Moosa: No,
Macara Slobodian: moment.
Aliasgar Moosa: no, it really doesn’t. And it and it’s gonna Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: And speaking to kind of the politics end of things,
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh man,
Macara Slobodian: what else have you been reading?
01:04:25
Aliasgar Moosa: we got to lighten it up a bit here before we wrap up the show here.
Macara Slobodian: Well,
Aliasgar Moosa: Go ahead. Go ahead.
Macara Slobodian: what else have you been reading that?
Aliasgar Moosa: Speaking of the politics angle,
Macara Slobodian: What else have you been reading this week?
Aliasgar Moosa: go ahead.
Macara Slobodian: I think you’ve been looking more at a promised
Aliasgar Moosa: That’s right.
Macara Slobodian: land.
Aliasgar Moosa: I have been. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yes. We’ve been paying attention.
Macara Slobodian: Here we
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah. Now, even that I I mean I I appreciate the fact that um you get that you get you see what’s going on now that what it was like in Obama’s
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: time. What were his experiences as a president? What were things he was trying to do?
Macara Slobodian: Mhm. Now, what has he been talking about where you’ve kind of gotten up to?
Aliasgar Moosa: What is he talking? Uh, it’s been a few days. I can’t
01:05:19
Macara Slobodian: Okay,
Aliasgar Moosa: remember.
Macara Slobodian: that’s fair. But it it is a very different perspective from him versus what it it would almost be refreshing, right? Because it’s a different perspective than kind of the the way the current talk is, right?
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah. And I don’t know what to say about that either.
Macara Slobodian: Best not to,
Aliasgar Moosa: Well, I do I do have thoughts on it,
Macara Slobodian: I suppose.
Aliasgar Moosa: but
Macara Slobodian: And of course, Obama dealt with his share of difficulties in his own time. That’s not we the there has never been a time where there has not
Aliasgar Moosa: he did
Macara Slobodian: been some problem or other or some some sort of conflict happening because that’s just not how the world works, but certainly it feels like it’s on a different scale
Aliasgar Moosa: No.
Macara Slobodian: now.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yep. Definitely.
Macara Slobodian: So that’s what else you’ve read this week.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yep.
Macara Slobodian: Great. And I also finished the books of the book of Lost Names earlier in the week.
01:06:47
Aliasgar Moosa: Oh, I’m going to get to the end of that soon as
Macara Slobodian: Yeah,
Aliasgar Moosa: well.
Macara Slobodian: it’s interesting because it is still very much a World War II story and there are quite a number of those out there. It seems a popular period of time in historical fiction and there are plenty of non-fiction out there, too. It’s It’s good. The pacing is really what keeps you going through it. But I will say it is lighter than some others that I’ve read in that same genre, which feels like a weird thing to say, but the ending is is considerably lighter than I would have expected.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: So that was interesting.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah.
Macara Slobodian: And speaking of books, next week. We need a book for next week.
Aliasgar Moosa: What would we like to do next
Macara Slobodian: Well,
Aliasgar Moosa: week?
Macara Slobodian: a while back before the holidays, we were talking about wanting to explore the plus catalog a little bit more in Audible
Aliasgar Moosa: Yes, we did, didn’t we?
Macara Slobodian: and I took a very cursory level poke through there this morning and I would like to do the audio dramatized version of George Orwell’s 1984 that is in the plus catalog.
01:08:06
Aliasgar Moosa: Let’s do it
Macara Slobodian: I think it’ll be very topical for this moment because a
Aliasgar Moosa: then.
Macara Slobodian: lot of people I’ve seen online say that these days it is a very topical book. But I think the dramatized version will be interesting.
Aliasgar Moosa: Let’s do
Macara Slobodian: Let’s do now we’re on to the schedule.
Aliasgar Moosa: it.
Macara Slobodian: What’s coming up on the Ali Musa show?
Aliasgar Moosa: Okay. So, what could it mean? What could Canada’s future look like?
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: What with the whole Greenland situation?
Macara Slobodian: Ah,
Aliasgar Moosa: Could,
Macara Slobodian: yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: and I I hate to say it like this, but I’m going to. Could Canada be next?
Macara Slobodian: That is the question.
Aliasgar Moosa: If Venezuela was a prime example, has been a prime example, could Canada be next? Well,
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: if you’re interested in hearing not, well, I in we we here at the Musa Sloian Network would like for you to tune in tomorrow
Macara Slobodian: Mhm.
Aliasgar Moosa: afternoon at what is it?
01:09:36
Aliasgar Moosa: 3:30 p.m. Eastern when When in the Muslian network, we will we will welcome Becky Kohl’s to discuss these
Macara Slobodian: Yes,
Aliasgar Moosa: topics.
Macara Slobodian: that’ll be a great chat.
Aliasgar Moosa: It most certainly will. And you can listen on the audio. You can listen on YouTube. You can listen on the website of course if you want and you can listen on
Macara Slobodian: Ah, yes.
Aliasgar Moosa: your favorite plot. You can listen on Apple or Pocketcast, wherever you listen.
Macara Slobodian: Like we said earlier, we’re where the eyeballs
Aliasgar Moosa: We most certainly are.
Macara Slobodian: are.
Aliasgar Moosa: And of course, if you miss the links there, you can check them out on there. They’re also uh um also will be available on the discords and the WhatsApps or wherever you want us to wherever you are. We
Macara Slobodian: Exactly.
Aliasgar Moosa: are
Macara Slobodian: Can always get at them through the Facebook page to the site and
Aliasgar Moosa: on LinkedIn as well
Macara Slobodian: yes we we truly are in many places.
Aliasgar Moosa: and many more are coming too.
01:11:08
Macara Slobodian: Yes. And of course,
Aliasgar Moosa: We have a books panel too later
Macara Slobodian: we will we do we have it in just a little under two
Aliasgar Moosa: on.
Macara Slobodian: weeks. On January 30th at 7:30 p.m. Eastern, we will be reconvening with our wonderful panel to discuss Anatomy of a Con artist. Of course, there’ll be updates closer to the day. Keep an eye out for those. can check out the Books Panel website books panel.ca or we’ve gotten into the habit on the hub site themoosaslobodiannetwork.ca in posting a weekly weekly agenda if you like on all of the shows that will be live and will be on the network in the coming week. So keep an eye out for that too. Subscribe over there if you haven’t.
Aliasgar Moosa: Yeah,
Macara Slobodian: Of course we will be back.
Aliasgar Moosa: we don’t charge for
Macara Slobodian: No, we don’t.
Aliasgar Moosa: that.
Macara Slobodian: We don’t. Just have to enter your email. No, we don’t charge for anything here.
Aliasgar Moosa: No, we
Macara Slobodian: And of course,
Aliasgar Moosa: don’t.
Macara Slobodian: we will be back here next Sunday for another regular Sunday show at 3:30 p.m. Eastern to discuss 1984 by George Orwell. Stay tuned, everyone. Be well. Be safe. We will be back next week.
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