The Best Friend Project

Every friendship has a story — and Robyn's started at a locker in ninth grade with a snap judgment she almost let cost her everything. 

In this episode of The Best Friend Project, host Rachel sits down with journal creator and author Robyn Liechti to talk about the girl she assumed was mean because she was pretty, and the 26-year best friendship that followed once she got out of her own head. 

Together, Rachel and Robyn dig into the loneliness epidemic and the $500 billion industry built around it, why society hands us language for romantic love but not platonic love, the Harvard happiness study linking long-term friendships to living longer, inconsistent effort and mismatched values as the top friendship pain points, being used as an alibi by a friend, why walking away quietly can be healthier than a blowout, and how Robyn turned grief over her grandmothers into 15,000+ self-published journals. 

If you have ever misjudged someone on sight, struggled with adult friendship, or wondered how to find, make, and keep friends as a woman over 30, this conversation is for you.

In This Episode

• The worst first impression that became a 26-year best friendship
• The friendship question almost no one asks
• Is ghosting easier than telling the truth?
• The secret to lifelong friendship? It might be adult sleepovers.

Connect With Robyn

Website

 Instagram @robyn.liechti

To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected].

Chapters: 

00:00 "I Assumed She Was Mean Because She Was Pretty"

01:00 Welcome to The Best Friend Project

02:00 How We Met: Trader Joe's Muffins in the Trash

03:00 The Harvard Study on Friendship, Health & Longevity

04:00 Loneliness Is Now a $500 Billion Industry

05:00 Connected on Social Media, Still Disconnected

06:00 What Taking the Friendship Survey Revealed

07:00 Why We Never Ask New Friends About Their Friendship History

08:00 The Locker Story: Grade Nine and a Snap Judgment

09:00 Insecurities, Assumptions, and What We Almost Miss

10:00 Different Lives, Same Best Friend: Toronto to the Country

11:00 Adult Sleepovers and Why People Stop Having Them

12:00 Friendship in Departments: Soccer Moms and One-on-Ones

13:00 What It Means to Have "Enough" Friends

14:00 Postcards in Bathrooms: 7,000 Miles of Survey Data

15:00 The Five Friendship Archetypes and the Keystone

16:00 The Skill You're So Good At You Don't Notice It

17:00 From Losing Her Grandmothers to Her First Journal

18:00 Seven Journals, a Kids' Book, and a Part-Time Job

19:00 Picturing the Woman on the Other Side

21:00 Stealth Mode: The Art of the Bathroom Postcard

22:00 Why We Ghost Best Friends Instead of Talking

23:00 Inconsistency: The #1 Friendship Pain Point

24:00 Effort, Values, and Actions That Don't Match

25:00 When a Friend Uses You as an Alibi

26:00 Time Will Either Expose or Promote

27:00 Not Being the Fixer — Walking Away Quietly

28:00 What Robyn Would Say to Her Best Friend

29:00 Look Past the Pretty: Read Their Energy

30:00 Rachel Reflects: Judgments That Stick With Us

31:00 15,000 Journals and "On the Phone With"

32:00 Next Week: Mary McGreevy and Tips from Dead People

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Wait, did she really say she manifested a best friendship with Weird Al Yankovic? She said it, and more.

In this 1990's-style phone call series, we check in with our featured guest of the week to hear what they thought of their episode. 

Tune in to this bonus episode where we're On The Phone with Melanie Curtis, getting her thoughts about Episodes 7 and 8, where she appears with her "other" best friend, Shannon. 

This is a quick, fun catch-up where Melanie and Rachel reconnect to reflect, reframe, and add a last dose of seriously good friendship wisdom. Grab your headphones and eavesdrop while we are On The Phone.

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What does it actually take to keep a friendship for 20 years? In Part 2 of this conversation, best friends Melanie Curtis and Shannon Lee show us — through wine, tears, ayahuasca, and a whole lot of radical honesty.

In this episode of The Best Friend Project, host Rachel Joy Swardson sits down with lifelong best friends Melanie Curtis and Shannon to unpack the real mechanics of a friendship built to last. They get honest about the moments most of us hide: the small confession over a bottle of wine that could've quietly become resentment, the hard conversation in the back seat of a car when heartbreak made one of them pull away, and the shadow parts of ourselves we'd rather no one ever see.

Together they explore the difference between putting yourself first, putting the other person first, and the reframe that changes everything — putting the friendship first. You'll hear why coming forward with an uncomfortable truth builds more trust than staying silent ever could, how deeper healing work in one area of life can quietly make you a better friend in all of them, and why so many of us were never taught that platonic love deserves the same intention we pour into romance and career.

In This Episode: 

• The wine bottle confession how one small moment of honesty ("that was me") became a 20-year lesson in choosing the friendship over your ego
• What "shadow work" really means and why looking at the parts of ourselves we'd rather hide is the secret to showing up as a better friend
• Putting yourself first vs. putting the friendship first 
• Why coming forward builds trust like nothing else — Shannon on how plant medicine and deep inner work helped her see her own patterns, own her part, and find peace when a letter went unanswered
• Why friendship breakups can hurt more than romantic ones 

Connect with Melanie and Shannon:

Melanie on Linkedin

Melanie on Instagram @melaniecurtis11

Website MelanieCurtis.com

Shannon On Instagram @luacheialuminosa and @greatspiritfarm

About The Best Friend Podcast

The Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.

To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected].

Chapters: 

0:00 Previously On: Have I Loved My Friends Fully?

1:05 Do You Have a "Friendship Type"?

2:30 Becoming the Safe Container for Each Other

3:20 The Wine Bottle Story: Honesty Over Ego

5:20 Shadow Work: The Parts of Us We Hide

7:00 Pulling Away During Heartbreak

8:30 The Backseat Conversation

10:30 You Can't Cry With a Closed Heart

12:10 When You Need to Put Yourself First — and Say So

14:40 The Reframe: Put the Friendship First

15:20 Red Flags & Why Coming Forward Builds Trust

16:40 Ayahuasca & Healing the Friendship Wound

18:40 The Letter That Got No Reply

21:00 Why Friendship Breakups Hurt More

22:00 How Deep Healing Made Me a Better Friend

24:00 Society Deprioritizes Friendship — Let's Change That

26:00 Childhood Friendship Trauma & the Survey Data

27:00 Connect With Melanie & Shannon

29:20 Rachel's Reflection: Always Put the Friendship First

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It was a short video. Not even two minutes long. Just two friends singing their hearts that made Rachel cry, and question everything about her own friendships. This is the conversation that followed.

Scrolling Instagram one night, Rachel Joy Swardson stopped on a video of two women in long coats and sunglasses, belting Starship's "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us" into wooden spoons, with a caption that read: "When you realize every love song is actually about your friendship." It made her laugh. Then it made her cry. Then it left her with a wave of regret, envy, and longing she never saw coming. So she did what The Best Friend Project does best and she invited those two friends on the show to help her understand it.

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Rachel sits down with Melanie Curtis and Shannon Lee, best friends of more than 20 years whose bond is equal parts deep and ridiculous. Melanie is a keynote speaker, world-record skydiver, and peak-performance coach; Shannon is a spiritual ambassador and master plant-medicine facilitator. Together they trace their friendship all the way back to a "love at first sight" moment on a skydiving packing mat in 2005 — and the two decades of high-integrity follow-through that made it last.

In This Episode: 

• A "love at first sight" friendship tells how Melanie and Shannon recognized each other instantly on a skydiving mat in 2005, and the 20 years of follow-through that proved it real
• Melanie on why being ridiculous together is actually an act of service and connection
• Nature taught Shannon that honesty is the default, and one of the greatest gifts we can give is to stop trying to change the people we love
• Boundaries inside unconditional love and how to accept a flaky or difficult friend without abandoning your own limits
• The friendship "template”, or the sticky-note mantra that has guided Melanie and Shannon's bond for two decades

Connect with Melanie and Shannon:

Melanie on Linkedin

Melanie on Instagram @melaniecurtis11

Website MelanieCurtis.com

Shannon On Instagram @luacheialuminosa and @greatspiritfarm

About The Best Friend Podcast

The Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.

To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected].

Chapters: 

0:00 Love, Hilarity & Becoming Toxic: A Preview

1:00 Do Friendships Last Forever — or Grow Apart?

2:00 The Instagram Video That Made Me Hiccup Sob

3:00 When Every Love Song Is About Your Friendship

3:40 The Regret, Envy & Joy I Didn't See Coming

4:30 Meet Melanie Curtis & Shannon Lee

6:20 Love at First Sight — With a Friend

8:00 20 Years of High-Integrity Follow-Through

8:40 Love and Hilarity: The Two Most Important Things

10:00 What It Was About This Video That Felt Different

11:00 Divorce, the Recession & No Time to Be Silly

12:40 What It Means to Truly See a Friend

14:00 Untapped Potential & Refusing the Corporate Box

16:00 Recovering People Pleasers & the Power of Rebellion

19:00 What Nature Taught Shannon About Honesty

20:00 Loving People As They Are — Without Losing Boundaries

22:00 The Friendship "Template" on a Sticky Note

24:00 How I Got Unconditional Love Wrong

25:00 When Resentment Poisons the Well

26:00 Coming Up in Part 2

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Well, I completely botched the time change, so Noelle and I aren't actually on the phone today. 😅 But something happened this week that I couldn't wait to share. After my conversation with Noelle, I found myself putting one of her friendship lessons into practice with a new-ish friend, and it was scary. But good. I think? You decide!

If you have had an experience like this following one of our episodes please leave us a voice mail by calling (844) 844-7893

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Rachel Joy Swardson first discovered Noelle Rhodes through a hilarious social media post about why everyone needs a friend from New Jersey. The post made Rachel laugh. It also made her wonder, is it easier to make friends in some parts of the country than others? In this conversation, Rachel sits down with New Jersey comedian Noelle Rhodes to talk about friendship, loyalty, conflict, and the surprising ways geography shapes how we connect with one another.

They also discuss a painful moment inside Noelle's friend group that could have ended very differently. Instead of reacting in the heat of the moment, Noelle stepped away, gave herself time to think, and returned with something unexpected: empathy.

It's a conversation about friendship rifts, second chances, becoming a comedian later in life, and what happens when the person everyone relies on for a laugh is the one having a hard day.

Funny, thoughtful, and unexpectedly moving, this episode might just change the way you think about the roles we play within our friendship group.

In This Episode:

• Why Noelle believes everyone needs a friend from New Jersey• Friendship differences between the East Coast, West Coast, and Midwest• The friendship conflict that almost changed everything• How a walk around the block prevented a friendship blowup• The hidden challenge of being "the funny friend"• Starting a comedy career later in life• How personal growth can affect friendships• Why empathy is often more powerful than being right

Connect with Noelle Rhodes:
@noellerhodescomedy

Website: https://noellerhodescomedy.com/

Coming Next Week:
One jumps out of airplanes. The other is immersed in the world of natural healing. Rachel Joy Swardson talks with Melanie and Shannon about their unique friendship, relentless silliness, and shared credo that has kept them connected for more than 20 years.

About The Best Friend Podcast
The Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.

To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected].

Chapters: 
0:00 Cold Open: Conflict Is a Friendship Sifter
0:40 Welcome to The Best Friend Project
1:25 Meet Noelle Rhodes, Clean Comedian
2:00 How They Connected & the Viral Jersey Reel
3:00 Jersey Honesty & the "You Need Bangs" Story
5:00 Friendship Sounds Different in Every Region
8:00 When Friends React to Your New Career
9:50 Hiding Behind Humor: "You're So Funny"
12:00 When the Funny Friend Breaks Down
13:00 The Long Walk & the Cast of Friends
17:00 The Funny Friend Can Be Hurt Too
21:00 Learning to "Self-Friend"
21:30 Northern Ireland & the Chocolate Party
24:00 Crying Under the Duvet: Loneliness Hits
25:00 Making Friends in Your 30s
27:00 Conflict as an Invitation to Go Deeper
29:00 Dialing It Back vs. Blowing It Up
30:30 Our Mothers' Friendships Looked Different
32:00 Time Is the Currency of Trust
34:30 No Shortcut: Friendship & Stand-Up
35:00 "I Don't Like People" & Other Green Flags
36:00 Where to Find & Book Noelle
38:00 Rachel's Reflection: The Funny Friend & Loneliness
41:00 Next Week: Melanie & Shannon

#TheBestFriendProject #FemaleFriendship #Friendship #MakingFriendsAsAnAdult #AdultFriendship #Loneliness #FriendshipPodcast #WomenSupportingWomen #MidlifeFriendship #FriendshipAdvice #CleanComedy #NoelleRhodes #TheFunnyFriend #SelfFriendship #ConflictResolution #FriendshipBreakup #PodcastForWomen #WomenAndFriendship #Vulnerability #Connection #NewJersey #Comedian #PodcastClips #RealStories #FindMakeKeep

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Hi! Have you listened to Episode Two: The Hidden Impact of Childhood Poverty on Friendship with Michelle and Elle?

When Michelle shared how growing up in poverty shaped her self-confidence as a child, I was speechless. I could have talked for another 30 minutes. On this phone call, I wanted to hear her reaction to the episode, but I also wanted to thank her for shining a light on the important, and often overlooked, impact poverty can have on a child's sense of security and self-perception. Her perspective is incredibly powerful, and I haven't stopped thinking about it.

If you haven't listened to Episode Two yet, I hope you will. Michelle's honesty, resilience, and extraordinary friendship with Elle are inspiring. I've seen listeners comment that they wish they had a friendship like theirs. Here's the thing—I believe they can. Michelle and Elle remind us that friendships like this are possible, and they're worth investing in.

Guest: Michelle Mackenzie (@TheLifeofaWidow)

🎙️ The Best Friend Podcast explores how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original friendship research, honest conversations, and unforgettable stories.

Take the survey and share your friendship story at TheBestFriendProject.co.

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Hi! Did you have a chance to listen to Episode One: I Thought We'd Grow Old Together with Elle and Michelle?

If so, I invite you to eavesdrop on my phone call with Elle. I was so curious to hear what it was like for her to listen back to her own words and relive such a personal conversation. This was my very first podcast episode, and I am honestly a little nervous to hear what she thought of it.

If you haven't listened to Episode One yet, I hope you will. Elle and Michelle's friendship, their individual stories, and the way they found each other left a lasting impression on me. I genuinely feel like I'm a better human for having had that conversation, and I hope you will, too.

Guest: Elle James (@shamelesselle)

🎙️ The Best Friend Podcast explores how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original friendship research, honest conversations, and unforgettable stories.

Share your friendship story by taking the survey at TheBestFriendProject.co

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When Shameless Elle lost the friendship she thought would last forever, she wasn't looking for new friends. But life had other plans.

In Part 2 of this conversation, Rachel Joy Swardson welcomes Michelle (@TheLifeOfAWidow) to the podcast to talk about the friendship that formed when three women found themselves navigating grief, loss, loneliness, and some of the hardest seasons of their lives at the exact same time. 

Michelle shares how growing up in poverty shaped the way she approached friendship, while Elle reflects on the surprising lessons she's learned from the women who stepped into her life after her best friend breakup. Together, they talk about accepting help, showing up imperfectly, and why some of the most meaningful friendships aren't built during the best years of our lives, they're built during the hardest. 

This isn't a conversation about waiting until you have life figured out before making friends. It's a conversation about finding people willing to march through the hardships with you, because they're in it too.

In This Episode:

• How three women found each other during seasons of grief and loss
 • The impact poverty can have on friendship and self-worth
 • Why asking for help is harder than it looks
 • What happens when women stop trying to earn love and simply receive it
 • Friendship after widowhood, divorce, and heartbreak
 • The small acts of kindness that change relationships forever
 • Why nobody has to march through life's hardest moments alone

Connect with Our Guests:

Shameless Elle
 Instagram: @ShamelessElle

https://shamelesselle.com

Michelle
 Instagram: @TheLifeOfAWidow

About The Best Friend Podcast

The Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.

To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected].

Chapters: 

0:00 Opening — "Without Those Friendships, You'd Be Climbing the Walls"

1:00 Welcome to The Best Friend Project + Michelle Joins the Conversation

2:00 Michelle on Showing Up for Elle Through Grief

3:00 How Elle & Stephanie Show Up for Michelle Every Friday

5:00 The Power of Letting People In When You're Struggling

6:00 How Elle, Michelle & Stephanie's Friendship Was Born Out of Necessity

8:00 "Meet People Where They're At" — What Authentic Friendship Looks Like

9:00 Rachel Reflects on Survival Mode, Male Friends & Her First Real Female Friendship

11:00 Words of Advice for Anyone Struggling with Friendship

12:00 "Humble Yourself" — Elle's Honest Take on Growing Through Friendship

13:00 How to Be a Good Friend When You Have No Time or Capacity

14:00 "It's Not Do You Have Time for Me — It's How Can I Meet You Where You Are"

15:00 Michelle Opens Up: Poverty, Shame & Learning to Let People In

17:00 Overgiving to Be Loved — "If I Do This, Then You Will Love Me"

18:00 Elle Reflects on Michelle & Stephanie's Strength and Intelligence

19:00 Where to Follow Elle (Shameless Elle) & Michelle (Life of a Widow)

20:00 The Taylor Swift Origin Story Behind Michelle's Handle

21:00 Rachel's Closing Reflections — Seeing the Right People in Your Darkest Hour

22:00 Next Week: Noelle Rhodes on the Burden of Being the Funny Friend

#TheBestFriendProject #FemaleFriendship #GriefAndFriendship #WomenSupportingWomen #FriendshipAdvice #MakingFriendsAsAnAdult #VulnerabilityAndConnection

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Rachel Joy Swardson thought losing her best friend was rare. Then she met content creator Shameless Elle and discovered they shared a surprisingly similar story. For nearly a decade, Elle believed she'd already found her person, the friend she'd call in a crisis, celebrate life's wins with, and grow old beside. 

Then one difficult decision changed everything, and the friendship ended. In this candid conversation, Rachel and Elle talk about friendship breakups, losing the woman you thought would always be there, and the unexpected loneliness that follows when your social world is built around one person.

But they also talk about what comes next. Because sometimes the friendships that change your life aren't the ones you lose. They're the ones you didn't see standing beside you all along.

In This Episode:

• The friendship breakup that changed the course of Elle's life
 • Why losing a best friend can feel as painful as a divorce
 • The danger of making one person your entire social world
 • How friendship loss can shake your confidence and identity
 • The surprising people who were waiting in the wings all along
 • What Rachel and Elle learned after losing the friendships they thought would last forever

Connect with Shameless Elle:

Instagram: @ShamelessElle 

https://shamelesselle.com

Coming Up Next:

Elles best friend Michelle @lifeofawidow joins the conversation in Part 2 to share how an unlikely friendship between three women became a lifeline during some of the hardest times of their lives.

About The Best Friend Podcast

The Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original research, personal experience, and candid conversations. Learn more, take the survey, and share your friendship story at TheBestFriendProject.co.

To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected].

Chapters: 

0:00 Opening — "I thought we'd grow old together"

1:00 Welcome to The Best Friend Project

2:00 How Rachel Found Elle (and What She Saw in That Instagram Post)

3:00 Elle's Best Friend Breakup — Nine Years, Then Silence

5:00 The Moment That Ended Everything: A Crisis and a Phone Call

7:00 What It Feels Like to Lose Your "One Person"

9:00 How Elle Started Saying Yes to Friendship Again

11:00 Reflection: Was That Friendship Even Healthy?

13:00 Hiding Your Joy to Protect Your Friend's Feelings

15:00 Grieving a Friendship While Honoring the Good in It

16:00 How Elle Met Stephanie and Michelle

17:00 Three Women, Shared Grief, and a Friendship Born of Necessity

19:00 When Friendship Hits a Threshold — And You Have to Decide

21:00 Healthier Friendships Were There All Along

22:00 "I Thought I Only Needed One Friend" — On Codependency and Letting People In

24:00 The Story of Michelle's Car — What True Friendship Looks Like

27:00 How Michelle Teaches Elle to Be a Better Friend

28:00 Michelle Joins the Conversation — Stay Tuned for Part 2

#TheBestFriendProject #FriendshipBreakup #WomenAndFriendship #FemaleFriendship #BestFriendBreakup #MakingFriendsAsAnAdult #FriendshipHealing

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