The Better Brand: Brand & Marketing Strategy for Christian Entrepreneurs

Six months pregnant, Allison Hardy got called into HR and lost her job as a tenure-track college art professor. The business she built after that layoff runs on email, and today she teaches founders an email funnel strategy that sells their offers while they’re busy serving clients. If you have a few hundred people on your list and haven’t written to them in months, this conversation will have you opening a blank email before it’s over.

Allison and I met at a podcasting conference, where I signed up for her membership on my phone halfway through her breakout session. We talk about why email still outperforms social media for reach, what belongs in a funnel versus your regular mailing list, how she uses AI to write email sequences without flattening your voice, and the online business trends she’s watching for 2027.

• Why a 20% open rate on a list of 1,000 puts your message in front of more people than 1,000 Instagram followers will (and why Allison’s clients often see 40 to 50%)
• The two buckets of email marketing and what each one is supposed to do
• How to map the gaps between someone downloading your freebie and being ready to hear your pitch
• Why a subscriber going through the same funnel three times before buying is perfectly normal
• What AI can do for your email copy, and what to feed it so the output still sounds like you

Timestamps are estimates from the raw recording. Verify against the final edit.

• [00:58] Allison’s layoff at six months pregnant, and the personal training business that pushed her into email
• [03:55] Jenna Kutcher’s six-month nurture sequence, and why you don’t need one
• [05:35] The case for email: it changes slower than social, reaches more of your audience, and lets you link out without penalty
• [08:39] Funnel versus mailing list, and why the goal of your list is getting people back into a funnel
• [09:36] Filling the gaps between the lead magnet and the pitch
• [11:36] The ten AI bots inside Emails That Sell, including Polly (pitch sequences) and Nelly (nurture sequences)
• [14:38] Why Allison is moving her bots off ChatGPT and onto a new platform called Wave
• [17:47] Can you trust AI output without the education behind it?
• [22:05] Are digital courses still worth creating?
• [25:17] Trends for 2027, including the webinar Allison has run monthly for two years
• [26:47] The founders who will pull ahead next year

• Emails That Sell membership: allisonhardy.com/emails-that-sell
• 14-day trial for $24: allisonhardy.com/emails-that-sell-trial
• Allison on Instagram: @allison_hardy
• My recent episode on how AI is making people average

Every sequence Allison described ends the same way, with a click to your sales page or website. If that page is confusing, outdated, or buries the next step, the email did its job and the website lost the sale. Grab the free Brand Audit Scorecard at jantouchberry.com/scorecard to grade your site’s conversion path before you build the funnel that points to it.

If this episode had you doing math in your head about your own prices, start with the Brand Audit Scorecard to see where your pricing and positioning actually stand right now. Ready for a deeper, personalized look? The $27 Brand Clarity Audit breaks down your site, your messaging, and your search presence in one report.

Grab The Visibility Vault - a 5 module training with workbook for a clearer path to consistent sales.

Interact Quizzes - What I use to build all my quiz lead magnets on.*

Enjoy 1 month of Showit FREE with my link when you sign up.*

Get 25% off your first year of Flodesk, my email marketing software.*

Get 30% off of your HoneyBook subscription - The CRM I use in my business.*

Tired of freebies that flop - grab this resource and level up your game.

Get more clear on who your brand serves: Ideal Client Workbook

*Some are affiliate links which means I may earn a commission.

CONNECT WITH JAN:

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We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #thebetterbrand and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

If you’ve started deleting emails based on the subject line alone, or rolled your eyes at one more podcast guest who’s “diving in,” you’re not imagining it. AI is flattening how brands sound, and your audience notices. In this episode of The Better Brand, Jan Touchberry walks Christian entrepreneurs through the exact workflow she uses to keep her brand voice in everything she writes with AI, plus what to do when ChatGPT hands you a two-page list of “fixes” for your business.

This is not an anti-AI episode. Jan uses it every week. She just refuses to let it write her out of her own business.

What you’ll learn

• Why AI tools default to average, and why that makes your emails sound like everyone else’s
• What the research says about AI-assisted writing and consumer trust (the numbers are hard to ignore)
• Jan’s five-step workflow for using AI without handing over your brand voice
• How to question an AI diagnosis of your website, SEO, or analytics before you act on it
• The “ownership pass” and “competitor test” every piece of copy should go through before it goes out

Episode highlights

(Timestamps are estimates from the raw recording. Verify against final edited audio.)

[00:00] AI fatigue, eye rolls, and the three subject lines clogging everyone’s inbox

[02:00] Why this isn’t an anti-AI episode

[03:02] How AI writes, and why “most likely” really means “average”

[04:29] Timbre: the part of your sound AI can’t copy (callback to episode 134)

[05:16] The research on AI, sameness, and trust

[07:55] Step 1: Brain dump before you open any AI tool

[09:34] Step 2: Let AI ask you questions, one at a time

[11:04] Step 3: Tell it to bring receipts

[12:25] Step 4: Have it edit your words instead of replacing them

[13:01] Step 5: The ownership pass and the competitor test

[14:44] The client who forwarded a ChatGPT to-do list built from one screenshot

[17:04] Why we fact-check AI on shoes but not on our businesses

[17:54] Five questions to ask before you act on AI advice

[20:58] “Test everything, hold fast to what is good”

[21:15] This week’s homework

[22:47] Where to start: the Brand Audit Scorecard

How do you keep your brand voice when you use AI?

Jan’s answer: think first, then bring in the tool. Start with a voice memo or scratch paper so your opinions and odd specific details are on the page before AI touches anything. Use AI as a thinking partner that asks you questions, require it to cite sources and admit when it’s guessing, and ask it to tighten your draft without adding anything you didn’t say. Then read the final version out loud, cut anything you’d never say to a client, and put back one detail no one else could have written.

Should you trust AI’s advice about your website or SEO?

Treat it as a list of questions for your expert, never a list of instructions. Ask the tool what it can’t see, have it rank recommendations by confidence, and make it argue the case that its advice is wrong for your business. Then verify one item with a real source before acting on the rest.

Pull quote

Resources mentioned

• Episode 134 on timbre and brand voice: [link]
• Doshi & Hauser, “Generative AI enhances individual creativity but reduces the collective diversity of novel content,” Science Advances (2024): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11244532
• Gartner consumer survey on AI-generated content, September 2026: https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2026-09-22-gartner-marketing-survuey-finds-35-percent-of-consumers-rely-on-influencers-less-due-to-ai
• Kinsta consumer survey on AI and trust, September 2026: https://kinsta.com/?p=219401
• MIT Media Lab, “Your Brain on ChatGPT” (preprint): [link]
• 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Find out where your brand stands

If this episode made you wonder whether your own copy has drifted toward sounding like everyone else, take the free Brand Audit Scorecard at jantouchberry.com/scorecard. It’s a self-scored checklist that shows you where your brand and website stand right now, so you know what to fix first.

If this episode had you doing math in your head about your own prices, start with the Brand Audit Scorecard to see where your pricing and positioning actually stand right now. Ready for a deeper, personalized look? The $27 Brand Clarity Audit breaks down your site, your messaging, and your search presence in one report.

Take the free Brand Frequency Quiz at to find out what your brand actually sounds like right now versus what you meant for it to sound like. If the results surprise you, hit reply on the follow-up email — Jan reads every one.

Grab The Visibility Vault - a 5 module training with workbook for a clearer path to consistent sales.

Interact Quizzes - What I use to build all my quiz lead magnets on.*

Enjoy 1 month of Showit FREE with my link when you sign up.*

Get 25% off your first year of Flodesk, my email marketing software.*

Get 30% off of your HoneyBook subscription - The CRM I use in my business.*

Tired of freebies that flop - grab this resource and level up your game.

Get more clear on who your brand serves: Ideal Client Workbook

*Some are affiliate links which means I may earn a commission.

CONNECT WITH JAN:

Here are all the best places and FREE stuff 👇🏻

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JOIN THE CONVO:

We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #HerFaithAtWork and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

Ali Spitsbergen had a 100% retention rate, a mastermind full of seven-figure women, and a website she built herself with her assistant. Her logic made sense: the clients were coming, so who needed a better site? A website redesign wasn't on her radar until the dust settled and she noticed the caliber of women inside her business didn't show up anywhere on the outside.

This is the first client spotlight on The Better Brand, and Ali brings the whole story: what she was nervous about, the mid-project moment she was sure I'd fire her, why AI copy started making her sound like everyone else, and what she'd tell any business owner trying to decide how much to budget for a website. If you've been telling yourself your site is "good enough" because referrals are carrying you, this conversation is for you.

What you'll learn

• Why a strong personal brand can hide a weak website for years, and the moment it stops working
• What actually happens in the messy middle of a rebrand, and why changing direction isn't a failure
• Where AI helps with website copy and where it flattens your voice
• How to think about budgeting for a website redesign using the "time or money" rule
• How a clear website made Ali's marketing easier, down to her team pulling social content straight from it

Episode highlights (estimates, verify against final audio; the new intro will shift these)

• [00:43] Meet Ali and the website she built herself
• [02:17] How she found me, and what convinced her to hire a designer
• [04:02] The fear: does a busy mom of four have capacity for this?
• [05:47] The messy middle and the text that changed the project's direction
• [08:07] AI copy vs. a human copywriter, and why Ali brought in my team
• [10:34] How it felt to hit publish
• [11:48] "If I waited another year…" and the website her team forgot they had
• [15:04] How to budget for a website redesign
• [17:34] Ali's advice if you know it's time but you're still waiting

Key takeaway

Resources mentioned

• Ali's website (see the before and after): alispitsbergen.com
• Ali's Inner Circle mastermind: alispitsbergen.com/innercircle
• For His Glory CEO podcast: alispitsbergen.com/podcast
• Melissa Hughes' website: Melissaleahughes.com
• Free Q4 planning guide (the episode that first introduced Ali to my work): jantouchberry.com/q4planning

If this episode had you doing math in your head about your own prices, start with the Brand Audit Scorecard to see where your pricing and positioning actually stand right now. Ready for a deeper, personalized look? The $27 Brand Clarity Audit breaks down your site, your messaging, and your search presence in one report.

Grab The Visibility Vault - a 5 module training with workbook for a clearer path to consistent sales.

Interact Quizzes - What I use to build all my quiz lead magnets on.*

Enjoy 1 month of Showit FREE with my link when you sign up.*

Get 25% off your first year of Flodesk, my email marketing software.*

Get 30% off of your HoneyBook subscription - The CRM I use in my business.*

Tired of freebies that flop - grab this resource and level up your game.

Get more clear on who your brand serves: Ideal Client Workbook

*Some are affiliate links which means I may earn a commission.

CONNECT WITH JAN:

Here are all the best places and FREE stuff 👇🏻

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JOIN THE CONVO:

We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #HerFaithAtWork and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

The pumpkins are out, the goals you wrote down in January are staring back at you, and Q4 starts October 1st. If you're a Christian woman entrepreneur wondering what's still worth doing before the year ends, this is the Q4 planning for small business rhythm I come back to every fall. It'll help you finish this year well and lay the groundwork for next year while there's still time to act on it.

Grab a notebook. This one comes with action steps.

• Why looking back comes first, and how an Ebenezer stone turns a simple wins list into worship
• The two-column exercise that sorts what's left into Still Aligned and Let It Go, plus a way to save next-year ideas without losing them
• A one-hour year-end brand check: where your best clients came from, what your website still says about you, and how to collect testimonials that actually sell
• What October, November, and December are each good for, including how to decide about Black Friday well before Thanksgiving night
• Why a rebrand or new website for next year needs a decision in Q4

Timestamps are estimates. Check them against the final edited audio.

[00:00] Fall in Texas and the "where did the year go?" feeling [02:00] Welcome, and the one question this episode hangs on [04:30] Step 1: Look back first, with Samuel's Ebenezer stone and your three wins [08:00] Step 2: Still Aligned or Let It Go, and permission to mourn what didn't work out [11:30] Step 3: The year-end brand check, from client sources to testimonials [15:30] Step 4: October to build, November to serve, December to rest [20:30] Step 5: Three intentions, what God did in my business this year, and a recap

When should I start planning next year? In Q4. Waiting until December or the second week of January means you're planning from exhaustion, and a strong first quarter needs groundwork laid in the fall.

Is December a slow month for sales? Not for everyone. People who want to start the new year with a new brand or website are researching in November and December, so your website needs to be ready to meet them.

When should I book a rebrand or new website? If it's on next year's list, decide in Q4. Designers book out ahead, and you don't want a brand project landing on top of your busiest season.

• 1 Samuel 7:12, the Ebenezer stone
• "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" (the hymn line "Here I raise my Ebenezer")
• Free Brand Audit Scorecard: jantouchberry.com/scorecard

Ready to turn your notes into a real plan? Grab the free Q4 planning guide and map out the last three months of your year.

Get the Q4 planning guide: jantouchberry.com/q4planning

Want to see how your brand and website are holding up before next year? Take the free Brand Audit Scorecard: jantouchberry.com/scorecard

CONNECT WITH JAN:

Here are all the best places and FREE stuff 👇🏻

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JOIN THE CONVO:

We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #HerFaithAtWork and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

Grab The Visibility Vault - a 5 module training with workbook for a clearer path to consistent sales.

Interact Quizzes - What I use to build all my quiz lead magnets on.*

Enjoy 1 month of Showit FREE with my link when you sign up.*

Get 25% off your first year of Flodesk, my email marketing software.*

Get 30% off of your HoneyBook subscription - The CRM I use in my business.*

Tired of freebies that flop - grab this resource and level up your game.

Get more clear on who your brand serves: Ideal Client Workbook

*Some are affiliate links which means I may earn a commission.

Episode Title: The Marketing Mistake I Made Even Though I Know Better

Slug suggestion: utm-tracking-marketing-mistake-christian-entrepreneurs

Meta description (155 chars max): I stopped tracking where my website traffic came from. Here's how UTMs fixed it and how to check your own blind spot.

Primary keyword: track website traffic sources

Secondary keywords: UTM tracking for small business, Google Analytics traffic sources, marketing data for entrepreneurs

I put Google Analytics on every website I build — mine included. So when I tell you I had no way to track where my website traffic was coming from, that's not a beginner mistake. That's a "I know better than this" mistake. People were showing up on my site. Instagram, Pinterest, email, this podcast — I couldn't tell you which one was actually bringing them, or which ones I could quietly stop putting effort into.

This episode is the fix. If you've ever looked at your own analytics and thought "well, traffic is traffic, I guess that's good" — this one's for you.

• Why "I'm getting traffic" isn't the same as knowing what's working
• What a UTM actually is, explained without the jargon
• How to build tagged links using Google's free Campaign URL Builder
• The one habit that makes tracking actually pay off long-term
• The mistake that makes tagging your links pointless if you skip it

(timestamps are estimates — verify against final edited audio)

[00:00] The confession: data nerd, lazy analytics

[03:15] Why untracked traffic is just an anonymous blob of visitors

[06:40] What a UTM is and how it tags a link by source, medium, and campaign

[10:20] How to build one with Google's free Campaign URL Builder

[13:05] The habit that matters more than the tool

[15:30] The mistake I almost made even after catching myself

[17:45] Why this is a brand-growth decision, not a tech task

"My website's doing fine" tells you nothing you can act on. "The link in my Tuesday email converts three times better than the one in my Instagram bio" tells you exactly where to spend your next hour.

• Google Campaign URL Builder — free tool to build tagged links
• Brand Audit Scorecard — free, see what's working (and what isn't) on your own site
• Brand Clarity Audit — $27 personalized breakdown of your site, search presence, and conversion path

Pick one channel you're active on — email, Instagram, Pinterest, wherever — and tag your very next link before you share it. Then put a reminder on your calendar for 30 days out to go check what it told you.

CONNECT WITH JAN:

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⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - @jantouchberry

JOIN THE CONVO:

We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #HerFaithAtWork and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

If this episode had you doing math in your head about your own prices, start with the Brand Audit Scorecard to see where your pricing and positioning actually stand right now. Ready for a deeper, personalized look? The $27 Brand Clarity Audit breaks down your site, your messaging, and your search presence in one report.

Grab The Visibility Vault - a 5 module training with workbook for a clearer path to consistent sales.

Interact Quizzes - What I use to build all my quiz lead magnets on.*

Enjoy 1 month of Showit FREE with my link when you sign up.*

Get 25% off your first year of Flodesk, my email marketing software.*

Get 30% off of your HoneyBook subscription - The CRM I use in my business.*

Tired of freebies that flop - grab this resource and level up your game.

Get more clear on who your brand serves: Ideal Client Workbook

*Some are affiliate links which means I may earn a commission.

Ever built a lead magnet that got plenty of clicks and almost no completions? That gap between interest and follow-through is the whole reason this episode exists. I built a quiz lead magnet inside Interact, watched my view rate come in exactly where I wanted, and then watched my completion rate tank. This episode walks through why a quiz outperforms a typical PDF or checklist in the first place, and what I found once I went looking for why mine wasn't finishing the job.

What you'll learn:

• Why a quiz creates a different kind of opt-in motivation than a typical freebie
• How question-by-question analytics can show you exactly where people are dropping off, instead of leaving you guessing
• Why segmenting your list by quiz result changes what your follow-up emails can actually do
• What happens when every outcome in your quiz assumes something is broken, and why that can quietly cost you completions
• The two changes I made after diagnosing my own drop-off, and why I'm still waiting on the results

Episode highlights (timestamps are estimates — confirm against final edited audio)

• [00:00] Why we can't resist a self-discovery quiz, and what that means for lead magnets
• [03:15] The moment my view rate looked great and my completion rate didn't
• [06:40] What's actually inside Interact: quiz types, the logic builder, and results pages
• [10:20] How segmentation turns a quiz into more than a one-time freebie
• [13:05] Building four to five emails per result, and what each sequence is actually built to do
• [17:30] What the question-by-question analytics showed me about where people quit
• [20:10] The problem I didn't expect: every result assumed something was broken
• [23:00] What I changed, and why I don't have the after numbers yet

Key takeaway: "A quiz has to feel light. You can put all the strategy you want behind it, but the person taking it shouldn't have to feel any of it."

Resources mentioned:

• Take the Brand Frequency Quiz: jantouchberry.com/quiz
• Try Interact at a discount: Interact quiz platform link

Call to action: Take the Brand Frequency Quiz at jantouchberry.com/quiz to see the segmentation in action, and if you're thinking about building your own, use the Interact link above to get started at a discount.

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If this episode had you doing math in your head about your own prices, start with the Brand Audit Scorecard to see where your pricing and positioning actually stand right now. Ready for a deeper, personalized look? The $27 Brand Clarity Audit breaks down your site, your messaging, and your search presence in one report.

JOIN THE CONVO:

We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #TheBetterBrand and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

If you've ever typed a number into an invoice and then quietly lowered it before you hit send, this episode is for you. Learning how to price your services isn't really a math problem. It's a mindset problem, and for a lot of Christian women in business, it's tangled up with guilt about charging for something that feels like ministry. In this episode, Jan sits down with three women from her mastermind group, Lindsey Fletcher, Andi Hart, and Gabe Cox, for an unfiltered roundtable on why pricing is so hard and what to actually do about it.

• Why fear and imposter syndrome quietly talk you into charging less than you're worth
• How to separate a client's "no" from a personal rejection
• The mindset shift that lets you see charging well as an act of stewardship, not greed
• A practical, research-based process for pricing a new offer or service
• How to raise your prices on existing clients without burning the relationship

Timestamps are estimates. Verify against the final edited audio before publishing.

[00:00] Meet the mastermind — Jan introduces the format (equal parts The View and business roundtable) and the four voices in this episode: Jan (brand and website strategy), Lindsey Fletcher (sales conversations), Andi Hart (product-based businesses and wholesale), and Gabe Cox (goal planning and business strategy).

[03:30] Why pricing feels so personal — The group unpacks the layers under pricing fear: imposter syndrome, the fear of actually having to deliver, and the way a "no" to your offer can feel like a "no" to you, especially when you built the thing yourself.

[08:00] The "helpful or paid" trap — Lindsey names the belief a lot of Christian women carry: if you're helpful, you can't charge, and if you charge, you're not helpful. The group reframes pricing as a way of letting a client actually invest in their own result, not a barrier to serving them.

[14:00] What happens when women get paid — Gabe references a community development study where giving income directly to women, rather than men, was what actually moved a community forward, and connects it to the idea that underpricing limits the impact a business owner can have.

[18:00] Pricing on feelings vs. pricing on data — Andi breaks down the consumer psychology of pricing (why a $1,000 washing machine reads as "better" than a $300 one) and why decisions made from feeling instead of research are the most common way business owners undercharge.

[22:30] Start at the top, not the bottom — Gabe shares how she used to launch everything cheap, and how flipping that (starting with a signature, higher-priced offer and working backward) changed both her income and her client experience.

[27:00] How to actually raise your prices — The group walks through real approaches: giving current clients a heads-up and a last chance at the old price, grandfathering loyal clients until they lapse, and raising prices at capacity rather than on a schedule.

[33:00] Final wisdom — Each guest leaves one closing thought: take imperfect action instead of waiting to feel ready, let God lead the decision, and remember that undercharging, not overcharging, is the mistake that actually costs you.

• Proverbs 31:18, referenced in the conversation about stewarding what God has given you
• A community development study on income and women (referenced from memory during the episode; exact source and figures were not confirmed on air)
• Alex Hormozi, referenced for his advice to start with a signature, higher-priced offer

CONNECT with the ladies on their podcasts:

Gabe Cox - Pursuing Goals God's Way

Lindsey Fletcher - The Leaders Table

Andee Hart - She Sells Differently

CONNECT WITH JAN:

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We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #HerFaithAtWork and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

If this episode had you doing math in your head about your own prices, start with the Brand Audit Scorecard to see where your pricing and positioning actually stand right now. Ready for a deeper, personalized look? The $27 Brand Clarity Audit breaks down your site, your messaging, and your search presence in one report.

If your website still explains you the way it did two price points ago, this episode is for you. This show just went through its third name change in three years, and instead of glossing over that, this episode uses it as the case study for a question a lot of established business owners are quietly avoiding: how do you know when to rebrand your business, instead of just tweaking the same one forever?

• Why a business can be working — clients, revenue, momentum — and still be carrying a brand that describes who you used to be
• The real difference between positioning (which is allowed to change) and the thing underneath it that shouldn't
• How to tell the difference between "this needs a refresh" and "this needs a rebuild"
• Why outgrowing your own brand isn't a failure, it's just what happens after real growth
• What's coming on this show going forward, and why the content itself is shifting shape

• [00:00] The Texas weather bit, and why a third name change isn't the flaky move it looks like
• [02:15] The real story: from Her Faith at Work to falling out of love with content creation and social media
• [05:30] The question that reframed everything, and what came out of sitting with it
• [08:00] The "next level problem" — the gap between the business you're running and the brand still describing the old one
• [09:45] A musician's detour into pitch, volume, and timbre — and what it actually has to do with your brand
• [13:00] What's ahead on the show, and the Brand Sound Quiz

Take the free Brand Frequency Quiz at to find out what your brand actually sounds like right now versus what you meant for it to sound like. If the results surprise you, hit reply on the follow-up email — Jan reads every one.

Ever have someone tell you they love your podcast... and then never actually buy anything from you? Or wonder why episodes you recorded two years ago basically don't exist anymore because nobody can find them? Here's the thing: podcasting is one of the best owned-media tools you have, but only if it's built to actually lead somewhere. Today I'm sitting down with Jenny Suneson, who has been in the podcasting world since 2018 and now helps mom entrepreneurs build sustainable businesses in 20 hours or less using podcasting as their number one visibility strategy — to fix exactly that.

• Why your podcast name might be the single biggest SEO mistake you're making (and the easy fix if you're too attached to change it)
• The often-overlooked places in your podcast settings where you can add searchable keywords
• How to know if you've niched down too far — or not nearly far enough
• Why "customer journey" is the most common blind spot for podcasters, even ones with a strong, established brand
• The real reason most podcasters shouldn't chase sponsorships first (and what to prioritize instead)
• Why auditing your back catalog could be the fastest way to grow your downloads this year

Timestamps are estimates and will be confirmed against final edited audio before publishing.

• [00:00] Meet Jenny Suneson — Podcasting since 2018, in the industry since 2019, and why she loves that podcasting doesn't change nearly as fast as social media
• [04:00] The SEO ingredients most podcasters skip — Why your first word matters, what to do if you love your "cute" show name, and the hidden keyword fields in your podcast host most people never touch
• [10:00] How far is too far when niching down — Jenny's own journey from "female entrepreneurs" to "mom entrepreneurs," and how to know when you've found the sweet spot
• [14:00] Mapping the listener journey — Why so many podcasters run their show and their business as two disconnected things, and the funnel that actually moves a listener toward becoming a client
• [20:00] Monetization: products first, sponsorships last — Why most podcasters chasing sponsorship deals are leaving money on the table, and where affiliate links fit in
• [22:00] The one thing to do if you want to level up — A full back-catalog audit, and the tool Jenny (and Jan) both use to track SEO rankings episode by episode

Jenny put it simply: most podcasters aren't struggling because their content is bad — they're struggling because they never built a way for a listener to become a lead. If you're not offering a next step, people don't know one exists.

• Podcasting for Moms — Jenny Suneson's podcast, available wherever you listen
• Connect with Jenny on her website
• PodSEO (podseo.com) — the SEO tracking tool both Jenny and Jan use to see what keywords their shows are ranking for

CONNECT WITH JAN:

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We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #marketingwithoutsocials and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

If you've ever told yourself "I'll fix my marketing once I have more budget," this episode is going to challenge that. Today I'm talking with Dr. Dave Jones — former professional hockey player, founder of the Christian advertising agency M Is Good, and creator of the R7 process — about why the businesses and ministries that struggle most with marketing usually don't have a money problem. They have a messaging problem. This is a rich, practical conversation about strategy, funnels, and what it actually takes to get above the noise right now.

• Why Dave's agency won't just "update your website" until they've nailed down your vision and messaging first
• The R7 process for aligning strategy with purpose — and why skipping straight to execution almost always backfires
• What top, middle, and bottom-of-funnel KPIs actually mean, and why "ROI" is only part of the picture
• Why audience fatigue with marketing isn't really about too much content — it's about the wrong content
• Dave's honest take on what it really costs to compete for attention today, and how that's changed since 1980
• How Dave's agency uses AI responsibly — and where he draws a hard line

Timestamps are estimates and will be confirmed against final edited audio before publishing.

• [00:00] Meet Dr. Dave Jones — From professional hockey in Europe to a rock-bottom identity crisis to founding a Christian advertising agency on a word he first thought was "a really dumb name"
• [08:00] The R7 process — Destiny, vision, mission, strategy, prayer, and action — why messaging always has to come before execution
• [13:00] Why "just update my website" is the wrong first question — Building a real audience persona instead of guessing what to say
• [17:00] Social media fatigue, decoded — Why audiences aren't tired of content, they're tired of not getting the content they actually want
• [19:00] Top, middle, bottom of the funnel — What Dave's team tracks daily, and why they call it KPI management instead of just ROI
• [26:00] The real cost of getting above the noise — From a 30-day message bounce rate in 1980 to about one hour today, and what that means for anyone marketing without a big budget
• [31:00] AI in the agency — Where Dave's team uses it, where they draw a hard line, and his Model T analogy for why you can't opt out of it forever
• [33:00] The question to ask before you rebuild your brand — "What is the future you're fighting for?"

Dave's answer, when asked what a smaller budget business could do first: start with messaging, not money. "Any amount north of zero is better than zero" — but no amount of budget will fix messaging that isn't clear on who you're talking to and what you're saying to them.

• M Is Good — Dr. Dave Jones's Christian advertising agency, based in Raleigh, North Carolina
• Plan the Win: How to Manage Your Fear, Lust, Anger, Pride While Building Your Christian Organization — Dave's new book, launching this week
• planthewintoday.com — includes a free assessment of your four toxic motivators, plus a link to the book on Amazon
• Find Dave on LinkedIn

CONNECT WITH JAN:

Here are all the best places and FREE stuff 👇🏻

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JOIN THE CONVO:

We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #marketingwithoutsocials and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode.

ABOUT THE HOST:

Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.