The Better Way? Podcast

It’s human nature to be curious about what other people are doing. But is it helpful. And is benchmarking just a modern day, corporate version of our naturally human instinct to "keep up with the Joneses?” 

In this episode of The Better Way?, Zach and Hui dive deep into the widely used, yet often over-valued, practice of culture and compliance benchmarking. They define it, explore why organizations do it, and acknowledge its potential to inspire (and maybe even help you find “better ways”). 

But they also caution against over-reliance, arguing that benchmarking-based comparisons usually lack the context necessary to be truly meaningful. Understanding what others are doing can be helpful to charting your own course; but when things go wrong, there is rarely strength in numbers. And who the heck are the Joneses anyway?

In this episode of The Better Way?, Zach and Hui welcome investigative journalist Anna (A) Bianca Roach for a conversation about the intersection of corporate strategy, ethics, and global risk—and the evolving priorities for today’s corporate boards. Drawing from experience reporting for Agenda, a Financial Times publication, A shares insights into what keeps boards up at night: from tariffs and supply chain complexity to the murky waters of AI oversight and education.

A, Hui, and Zach explore the nuanced reality behind corporate DEI and climate commitments, where public silence doesn’t always mean inaction—and how short-term shifts in public transparency may have long-term effects on public trust. The conversation closes with reflections on immigration policy, the environmental cost of AI, and the importance of asking “dumb” questions . . . because sometimes, that’s where the smartest answers begin. A also also reflects on their journey from multilingual childhood in Switzerland to a career in journalism shaped by curiosity and interest in cross-border collaboration.

It’s easy to measure output. How many trainings. How many policies. How many messages. All "the things" we did to protect the company and shape a culture of ethics and integrity. But did any of those things work? And what does it even mean for something to “work"? In this episode of The Better Way?, Zach and Hui focus on the distinction between output and outcome—and advocate for a mindset of experimentation and verification. 

Drawing parallels to healthcare and public safety, they emphasize that true effectiveness involves behavioral change, risk reduction, and cultural alignment. But they also acknowledge that this is hard—so much harder than tallying up output. From FOFO (fear of finding out) to data access challenges, they unpack (some of) the reasons why compliance often falls into the output trap. And in the end, they call for a fundamental shift in mindset: one that starts with defining your desired outcomes, collecting meaningful data, and being brave enough to test whether what we’re doing is working.

In this episode of The Better Way?, Zach and Hui welcome back Alison Taylor (NYU professor, ethics expert, and celebrated author of Higher Ground) for a candid conversation about LinkedIn. Yes, you read that right! We're dedicating an episode to LinkedIn. What starts as a lighthearted look at LinkedIn etiquette (Alison’s pet peeve posts inspired the episode) evolves into a deeper exploration of how professionals use the platform to build voice, share ideas, and navigate the tension between authenticity and self-promotion.

Together, the trio unpacks the paradoxes of “influence,” the frustrations of the algorithm, and the echo chambers that often form in professional circles (a topic we’ve separately dedicated an entire episode to). They reflect on the platform’s role in shaping modern discourse and the broader implications for how professionals connect, communicate, and build credibility in a digital world. Whether you’re a lover of LinkedIn, think it’s the height of cringe, or both, the dynamic Alison Taylor is always worth a listen. 

There’s a difference between doing “what’s required” and doing “what’s right.” And if you’ve been paying attention, you know that we’ve also done whole episodes on the shortcomings of “do the right thing” language. So, in this episode of The Better Way?, Hui and Zach thought it was time to give ethics the explicit spotlight it deserves. It is, after all, our “E.”

They start by unpacking the differences between compliance (think: rules, regulations, and external demands) and ethics (think: values and the messy beauty of human judgment). Then, through a combination of historical lessons and real-world dilemmas, Hui and Zach dig deep into the role of today’s “ethics and compliance” officer. What does it mean to wear “ethics” as a badge? And are those who carry the badge truly empowered to be the conscience of their companies—should they be? As always, they end with tips for navigating the complexities of today’s workplace, with a focus on having the moral courage to initiate the sort of difficult conversations that make organizations better.

We often hear people in our world say that they’ve spent their day “putting out fires.” Yeah? Well, we thought, why not talk to someone who has spent his career putting out actual fires—and who leads one of the most dynamic fire departments in the United States?

In this episode of The Better Way?, Zach and Hui sit down with Sheldon Hao, Chief of the Honolulu Fire Department, for a conversation about leadership and decision-making on the front lines of emergency response. Drawing from decades of service, Chief Hao offers a behind-the-scenes look at how firefighters make split-second decisions; train for the unexpected; and shape a culture rooted in family, service, and resilience. From managing emergencies in real time to using data for long-term strategic planning, Chief Hao’s insights are as applicable in business as they are in the firehouse.

Shaping culture can be a daunting task. Because change doesn’t happen overnight. But our world is filled with examples of shifting norms in both the social and organizational contexts. Just think about how much has changed in the last fifty years—or even, the last five!

In this episode of The Better Way?, Hui and Zach, as they often do, find inspiration in unexpected places; with examples from politics, pop culture, business, and education, they remind each other that big change is possible, and can happen swiftly. From representations of sex and gender norms on television; to the cultural transformation Paul O’Neill led at Alcoa; to the campaign to promote designated drivers (and more!)—they’ll share nuggets of inspiration that can enrich the work we all do every day.

Leadership is a recurring theme on the pod. So, as they’re wont to do, Hui and Zach sought out an important voice to dive deep into leadership and leadership development: Dr. Tom Kolditz, a retired Brigadier General (U.S. Army), psychologist, author, educator, and leadership coach.

In this episode of The Better Way?, General Kolditz shares insights on trust and leadership in times of crisis—from combat zones to corporate boardrooms. He also challenges us to rethink traditional assumptions about authority and leadership, and makes a compelling case for follower-focused, adaptable leadership. From the ethics of diversity and inclusion (including a detour into current events, like recent plans to rename certain DOD installations) to the importance of listening and managing dissent, this conversation is all about what it means to lead with purpose and integrity in any context.

This series is all about curiosity in the search for “better ways.” And that search has taken us to some unexpected places: we’ve talked to an award winning actress; data scientists; AI ethicists; behavioral scientists; psychologists; lawyers; an auditor; and many others. We’ve also drawn inspiration from congress, religion, academia, the military, sports—and of course, from the world of business.

In this episode, Zach and Hui talk about the importance of getting out of the traditional culture, compliance, and ethics “echo chamber”; why many of the most prominent conferences on these topics (and it seems like there’s been a lot lately) fail to deliver; and they each share three unexpected sources of inspiration (from pop culture to 15th century history to modern medicine). And most importantly, they get specific; about how each of these areas inspire them—and what they teach us about our work.

Psychology is increasingly a topic of interest to practitioners in organizational ethics, compliance, and culture (as it should be!). But do you know who we don’t hear from enough on the topic? Actual psychologists. Call it a “better way,” or just common sense, Zach and Hui decided to address that, by starting a conversation with noted clinical and organizational psychologist, May Chen.

The conversation with Dr. Chen begins with a discussion of her curiosity-fueled professional journey. They cover her early career merging psychology and consumer marketing; her experience as an academic and researcher; and her work as a consultant, advising global companies on new additions to their executive ranks. Along the way, Dr. Chen offers insights about organizational culture; the importance of leading with empathy; the role of assessments; the difference between “ethics” and obedience; and why “diversity,” in all its forms, is critical to building a winning organization and team.