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LEVEL FOUR: SCALE BUILDER

What does it actually take to build a business when capital is tight, competition is high, and every mistake gets amplified as you grow?

In today's episode of The Business Game, we're chatting with Justin Giuffrida, co-founder and CEO of Citizens, a rapidly growing Australian café brand redefining coffee culture in the United States.

In this conversation, we’re talking with Justin about what happens when you push past the early wins and start dealing with real complexity. From opening a café in New York with just $74,000, to scaling across multiple cities, to now preparing for major expansion, Justin tells us all about the shift from scrappy startup to structured growth.

From learning how to hire properly, to building systems that remove the founder as the bottleneck, to managing culture and consistency across locations, Justin breaks down what it actually takes to scale without breaking the business.

If you’re building a business, managing a growing team, or navigating the challenges of scaling operations, this episode is for you.

Let’s dive in with Justin Giuffrida:

• why most founders get hiring wrong
• why Citizens runs 123 interviews (!) to find the right hire
• how to build systems that scale beyond the founder
• why founders become the bottleneck and how to fix it
• how to maintain culture while scaling across locations
• what it really takes to raise capital and expand
• the leadership shift from operator to CEO
• how to use mentors to shortcut years of mistakes
• the biggest risks when scaling too quickly
• what changes when complexity starts to compound

Chapters

00:00 – Building a Café with $74K
 03:30 – Spotting the Opportunity in the US
 06:10 – Opening with No Money
 12:50 – From Launch to Line Out the Door
 17:30 – Knowing the Model Would Scale
 22:30 – Systems Behind Multi-Location Growth
 29:20 – Why Hiring is So Hard
 36:30 – Raising Capital and Scaling Fast
 49:00 – The Founder to CEO Shift
 01:02:00 – Mentors, Growth, and Long-Term Vision

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

LEVEL TWO: EARLY BUILDER

What does it actually take to build a business where the biggest risk isn’t your product… but people? 

In today’s episode of The Business Game, we’re talking to cybersecurity expert Robert Siciliano to break down what’s really happening as AI reshapes fraud, deception, and trust – and why most businesses are completely unprepared for it. 

Robert tells us the risks now that AI has removed all the obvious red flags of scams, making deception feel completely real – from voice cloning to deepfakes – and why the biggest vulnerability in any business isn’t its technology, but its people who can fall victim to these scams. And on top of that, we go deep with Robert on what it actually looks like to build a business around your own expertise. 

From operating as a solopreneur, to learning how to sell your knowledge, to navigating the collapse of income during COVID, Robert shares the reality of stabilising a business when you are the product. 

Let’s dive in, with Robert Siciliano: 

• Why AI has made scams almost impossible to detect  
• The dangerous gap between security awareness and real behaviour (and the need for a strategic human firewall) 
• How apathy exposes both individuals and businesses  
• What it really takes to build systems when you’re still doing everything  
• How to start scaling expertise beyond yourself  

If you’re in the early stages of building a business, hiring your first team, or trying to turn your expertise into something sustainable… This one is for you!  

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

LEVEL FOUR: SCALE BUILDER

What does it actually take to build a business when capital is tight, competition is high, and every mistake gets amplified as you grow?

In today's episode of The Business Game, we're chatting with Justin Giuffrida, co-founder and CEO of Citizens, a rapidly growing Australian café brand redefining coffee culture in the United States.

In this conversation, we’re talking with Justin about what happens when you push past the early wins and start dealing with real complexity. From opening a café in New York with just $74,000, to scaling across multiple cities, to now preparing for major expansion, Justin tells us all about the shift from scrappy startup to structured growth.

From learning how to hire properly, to building systems that remove the founder as the bottleneck, to managing culture and consistency across locations, Justin breaks down what it actually takes to scale without breaking the business.

If you’re building a business, managing a growing team, or navigating the challenges of scaling operations, this episode is for you.

Let’s dive in with Justin Giuffrida:

• why most founders get hiring wrong
• why Citizens runs 123 interviews (!) to find the right hire
• how to build systems that scale beyond the founder
• why founders become the bottleneck and how to fix it
• how to maintain culture while scaling across locations
• what it really takes to raise capital and expand
• the leadership shift from operator to CEO
• how to use mentors to shortcut years of mistakes
• the biggest risks when scaling too quickly
• what changes when complexity starts to compound

Chapters

00:00 – Building a Café with $74K
 03:30 – Spotting the Opportunity in the US
 06:10 – Opening with No Money
 12:50 – From Launch to Line Out the Door
 17:30 – Knowing the Model Would Scale
 22:30 – Systems Behind Multi-Location Growth
 29:20 – Why Hiring is So Hard
 36:30 – Raising Capital and Scaling Fast
 49:00 – The Founder to CEO Shift
 01:02:00 – Mentors, Growth, and Long-Term Vision

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

LEVEL ONE: STARTUP & SURVIVAL

What does it actually take to build a business where execution isn’t the problem… but you are?

In this episode of The Business Game, Rachel Losser, founder of Losser Consulting Solutions, shares what it really takes to build a consulting firm focused on one thing most businesses struggle with: getting things done.

In this conversation, we're chatting with Rachel about about what happens when you realise that not every client is worth keeping, that growth comes from saying no more than yes, and that the biggest bottleneck in your business… is often you.

 From learning how to fire the wrong clients, to building systems that don’t rely on the founder, to creating accountability across teams, Rachel breaks down what it actually takes to move out of chaos and into control - and how to get out of your own way in the process.

If you’re building a business, hiring your first team, or trying to stop being the bottleneck in your own company? This episode is for you!

Let’s dive in, with Rachel Losser:

• why bad clients don’t get better… they get worse
 • the moment she realised she was the bottleneck
 • how saying no leads to better opportunities
 • why “ready for change” and actually changing are different
 • how to build trust while still holding accountability
 • the simple system that keeps projects moving forward
 • why most founders delay the conversations that matter
 • how to scale without turning into a micromanager
 • the real reason projects fail in growing businesses
 • what it takes to move from doer to leader

Chapters

00:00 – The moment Rachel knew she could do it better
02:02 – Firing clients and why it changed everything
03:25 – How to spot bad clients early
06:23 – Why clients don’t actually want change
08:26 – “I am the bottleneck”
10:15 – Training a team without losing control
11:42 – The “reverse micromanager” problem
13:22 – Turning custom work into scalable systems
16:00 – Why founders hold onto work under pressure
39:00 – The real shortcut: good work gets more work

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

LEVEL TWO: EARLY BUILDER

What happens when your business is growing… but your fundamentals are quietly breaking underneath you?

In this episode of The Business Game, Carla Penn-Kahn, co-founder of ProfitPeak, shares what it really takes to build and scale a company in one of the fastest-moving spaces in business, AI-driven and agentic commerce.

This isn’t just a conversation about growth; it's a conversation about what happens when the numbers look good on paper, but the reality behind the scenes tells a very different story. From making $200K in revenue but not being able to pay payroll, to hiring the wrong people because they were the best available at the time, Carla breaks down the moments that most founders do not talk about, but all eventually face.

Carla shares the reality of building from zero for the first time after previous successful turnarounds, this time in a new category and a new market with no brand awareness, as well as her personal lessons from building from scratch. From learning (the hard way!) that you can't run a company like a family, to shifting from earning trust to giving it first, Carla talks us through how her leadership style has evolved across multiple businesses... and what it takes to build a team that can keep up with the speed of an AI-first world.

If you're building a business, hiring your first team, or trying to move out of the chaos of early growth... This episode is for you! 

Let's dive in, with Carla Penn-Kahn:

• why making revenue does not mean you have cash
 • the $200K payroll mistake that changed everything
 • how unclear messaging can stall growth and how to fix it
 • why problems in business happen hourly, not daily
 • hiring the wrong people and why it is often unavoidable early
 • the role of resilience in surviving constant setbacks
 • the leadership shift from “nice founder” to real CEO
 • why trust is given first, not earned over time
 • how AI is changing e-commerce and decision-making
 • what founders need to build now to stay competitive

Follow The Business Game for more real conversations with founders building across all levels of business. 

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

LEVEL THREE: EMERGING CEO 

What does it actually take to build a company where mistakes have real-world consequences? 

In this episode of The Business Game, Ryan Hawley shares the story behind Odin Industries, a global organisation operating across healthcare, insurance, and legal systems in some of the most complex and high-stakes environments in the world.  

This isn’t just a conversation about scaling a business. 

It is a conversation about what happens when you scale inside systems that are regulated, international, and unforgiving, where decisions affect people’s health, claims, and livelihoods – and there is no margin for error.  

Ryan talks openly about building in war zones, navigating global operations, and the reality of growing fast without breaking the machine. From learning how to delegate as a self-confessed control freak, to managing risk across multiple countries, to keeping a team aligned under pressure, this episode reveals what it actually takes to operate at a global level.  

If you are scaling a business, building across borders, or trying to step into true leadership, this episode is packed with hard-earned lessons. 
 

We cover: 

•  how Odin Industries was built from frontline medical experience
•  the moment Ryan chose to build systems instead of stay inside broken ones
•  scaling quickly without letting operations collapse
•  why delegation is the only way to buy back time
• managing risk across international and regulated environments
• what almost broke during rapid growth and global expansion
• the leadership shift required to run a high-stakes organisation 

Follow The Business Game for more real conversations with founders building across different levels of business. 
 

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

LEVEL 2: EARLY BUILDER

What does it actually take to build a premium product business? 

In this episode of The Business Game, Lindsay Scherr Burgess shares the real story behind Green Wallscapes, from early side hustle beginnings to becoming a trusted supplier for major commercial clients across North America. 

This is not just a conversation about design or product. 

It is a conversation about what founders really face when they try to build something premium: pricing, systems, quality control, people issues, operational pressure, client delivery, and the constant tension between growth and protecting the brand. 

Lindsay talks openly about the bottlenecks that nearly broke the business, the importance of process, the reality of hiring, and why the next phase of growth depends on getting the right operator into the company. 

If you are building a premium brand, product-based business, or founder-led company, this episode is packed with practical lessons. 

We cover: 

• how Green Wallscapes began 
• when the business started to feel real 
• the credibility that came from major clients 
• the hidden pressure behind scaling a premium offer 
• why systems changed everything 
• hiring frustrations and founder bottlenecks 
• the next level Lindsay is building toward 

Follow The Business Game for more real conversations with founders building across different levels of business.

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

LEVEL 1: OWNER OPERATOR

Today’s episode is a conversation with Dr Avinish Reddy, founder of Elevated Medical, on building a premium healthcare practice around longevity, preventative medicine, and proactive patient care. 

Avi explains how traditional healthcare is mostly reactive, while his model is focused on helping patients improve their long-term health before disease appears. He also shares what it takes to turn medical expertise into a high-trust, high-touch business. 

This episode covers: 

• Building a preventative healthcare business 
• The meaning of Medicine 3.0 
• Creating a premium concierge model 
• Shifting from doctor to founder 
• Pricing, trust, and integrity in a noisy health market 
• Why time and capacity are the biggest growth bottlenecks 
• How AI could reshape healthcare operations 
• The business case for personalized care 

If you’re a founder, operator, doctor, consultant, or premium service provider, this episode is packed with insights on trust, positioning, and building a business around expertise. 

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

Neil Ateem, founder of Multiplier Agency, joins The Business Game to break down what really happens when an agency starts scaling and the founder becomes the bottleneck. 

After generating more than $300 million in client revenue, Neil shares the real mechanics behind crossing into 7 figures, building a delivery team, handling the pressure of fixed costs versus variable income, and learning that more clients does not always create a better business. 

This episode is not about surface-level marketing talk. It is about the real founder decisions that shape whether an agency becomes scalable or stays fragile. 

In this conversation, we cover: 

• The journey from freelance-style delivery to a real agency model 
• What changes when you move from sub-$1M to 7 figures 
• The first hires that made scale possible 
• Why perfectionism keeps founders stuck too long 
• What nearly broke Neil during growth 
• The decision that changed the business model 
• Why recurring revenue and subscriptions matter so much 
• The mistake founders make when they chase short-term projects 
• What it really means to become a CEO instead of the doer 
• The cheat code for agency owners stuck two years behind the next level 

If you are building an agency, scaling a service business, or trying to step out of founder overload and into true operational growth, this episode will give you a practical look at what actually breaks, and what actually works, when agencies scale. 

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level. 

Send us Fan Mail

Most business owners start their company for freedom — but end up building something that only works if they are there holding it together. 

In this episode of The Business Game, Wayne Hutchison breaks down why so many owner-operators become trapped inside their own business and what it actually takes to build systems that remove the founder as the bottleneck. 

Wayne has spent more than 20 years helping founders shift from working insane hours to building businesses that generate profit without problems — where systems, leverage, and better decision-making replace hustle and burnout. 

This conversation explores the real mechanics of scaling a business beyond the founder. 

In this episode you’ll learn: 

• Why the “hero owner” mindset traps founders in their own business
• The difference between working harder vs building leverage
• What “profits without problems” actually means in practice
• The simple experiment Wayne used to expose the real bottlenecks in his business
• Why systems — not motivation — create sustainable growth
• The biggest myth around work-life balance for entrepreneurs 
• Why many founders unknowingly recreate the same job they tried to escape 
• How AI is becoming a new form of leverage for business owners 
• Why most business advice pushes founders into burnout instead of scale 

If you’re an owner-operator trying to move from doing everything yourself to building a business that runs, this episode is packed with practical insights on systems, leverage, and sustainable growth. 

Support the show

Thank you for listening to The Business Game, where real founders break down the real levels of business.

Whether you're building at Level 1 ($0–$1M) or scaling through Level 6 and beyond, this show is designed to help you understand exactly where you are, and what it takes to level up.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow and leave a review. It helps more founders find the roadmap.

For full episodes, level breakdowns and behind-the-scenes content, follow us on YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.

Want to identify your level or learn more about The Business Game framework?
Visit www.thebusinessgamegroup.com

It's time to Level Up!

We’ll see you at the next level.