The CampHacker Podcast

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Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/iil-jolly-c

In this episode of Intentionally Intentional Leaders, Jolly Corley, leadership coach and Director of Camp Robindel For Girls, joins the show to discuss the deep-seated why behind camp leadership. From her early days as an 18-year-old counselor to her professional background in theater, Jolly explores how childhood experiences and even vivid dreams have shaped her approach to developing young leaders.

Jolly challenges camp directors to look beyond simple activities and embrace the moments that build true resilience. She dives into the necessity of treating staff and campers as capable individuals, moving away from the fragility of modern parenting and toward a model of honest, collaborative growth.

Key Takeaways include:

• The Cabin as a High Risk Zone: While waterfronts and ropes courses have clear safety structures like life jackets and harnesses, the cabin is where the highest emotional risk lives. Jolly highlights how we rely on the training and intuition of young staff to manage the most precious thing in a parent's life, which is their child’s emotional and physical well being.
• The Capable Child: Reflecting on her own mother’s refusal to talk down to her, Jolly explains that leadership is about making others feel capable. She emphasizes that childhood is simply the process of becoming an adult and camp is the perfect laboratory for practicing that independence.
• Mission vs. Ego: Jolly reveals that the hardest leadership decisions are often between mission and ego rather than money. She discusses the hubris of a director thinking they can fix every staff member and the importance of recognizing when a specific camp environment just is not the right fit for someone.
• The Red Popsicle Resilience: True partnership with parents requires transparency about struggle. Jolly argues that resilience is not built by finding the last red popsicle in the freezer. Instead, it is built by sitting with a child in the disappointment of not getting one, which teaches them that they can experience hard feelings and still function.
• The Non Negotiable of Safety: When balancing support and accountability, Jolly draws a firm line at physical safety. While emotional and mental growth requires nuance and flow, physical safety rules must remain absolute to protect the community.

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• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro
• Jolly Corley, Leadership Development Coach and Director - Jolly Corley LLC & Camp Robindel For Girls

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Whereabouts

Your mission is campers. Ours is making their experience coordinated and connected.

Whereabouts is the only camper management system that keeps Parents, Admin, and Staff in sync in real time — so every camper’s day runs with confidence, clarity, and care. Check them out whereaboutsapp.io/

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/camps-using-and-applying-ai

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Join Travis, Chris, and Kate as they dive into the evolving role of artificial intelligence in the 2026 camp landscape. The conversation explores the tension between increasing administrative efficiency and maintaining the human touch essential to the camp experience. They discuss practical ways to use AI for scheduling and staff onboarding while addressing valid ethical concerns about environmental impact and the creative arts.

Key takeaways include:

• Move Beyond Simple Search to Collaborative Coaching: The most effective way to use modern AI is to treat it as a thinking partner rather than a search engine. Asking the technology to coach you through better prompts or to analyze your specific camp values ensures that the output is personalized and avoids the generic feel of common AI generated content.
• Balance Technological Speed with Ethical Considerations: While AI offers massive benefits for productivity, camp leaders must remain mindful of the environmental costs and the impact on creative professionals. Using the right tool for the right job, such as high quality translation services or specific writing assistants, helps maintain professional standards without sacrificing the camp's core values.

• Travis - Claude AI
• Chris - Rotating Pomodoro Timer 
• Kate Taylor - DeepL Translator

• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro. Contact Email
• Chris Hudson, Camp Consultant - Planet Chris Consulting. Contact Email
• Kate Taylor, Consultant - Stephane Richard Development Consulting. Contact Email

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UltraCamp

Running camp comes with enough moving parts. UltraCamp keeps registration, payments, and communication in one place—so you can spend less time juggling systems and more time building an incredible camp experience. Learn more at ultracampmanagement.com/camphacker.

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/iil-andy-p

In this episode of Intentionally Intentional Leaders, Matt Wilfrid sits down with Andy Pritikin, a true powerhouse in the summer camp industry. From founding Liberty Lake Day Camp to producing the New Jersey Renaissance Fair and hosting the Day Camp Podcast, Andy has spent decades "sharpening the sword" of youth development.

Through the roll of a 20-sided die, Andy shares how his background as a rock musician and a student teacher shaped his belief that leadership is earned through relationships, not titles. We dive deep into why camp is the ultimate antidote to an AI-driven world and how directors can navigate the tricky waters of transparency and candor in a modern camp setting.

Key Takeaways include:

• Earned Respect vs. Authoritarianism: Andy reflects on his early days as a music teacher to explain why "collared shirts and walkie-talkies" don't grant authority. True leadership requires constant deposits into the "relationship piggy bank" with your staff.
• The Anti-AI Value Proposition: In an age where even a trip to the gym involves earbuds and screens, Andy discusses why camp is uniquely positioned as a "religion of nature." It’s the one place where kids can focus purely on being human.
• Emotional Safety over "The Trains": Andy shares a profound insight on prioritizing emotional safety and belonging over administrative efficiency. While a schedule is a necessary framework, it should never steamroll the chance for a meaningful, life-changing interaction.
• Forgiving the Mistakes: From "sunscreen machines" that didn't work to hiring mishaps, Andy shares his mantra: "All you can do is the best you can do." Learn why humility and a "glass-half-full" perspective are essential for a long-term career in camping.

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Find full show notes and links for this episode at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/iil-andy-p

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• Matt Wilfrid, Executive Producer of Podcasting at Go Camp Pro
• Andy Pritikin, Owner/Director - Liberty Lake Day Camp

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Whereabouts

Your mission is campers. Ours is making their experience coordinated and connected.

Whereabouts is the only camper management system that keeps Parents, Admin, and Staff in sync in real time — so every camper’s day runs with confidence, clarity, and care. Check them out whereaboutsapp.io/

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/the-resilience-report
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Analyzing Hard Numbers and Camp Realities

Join Travis, Chris, Kendra Perkins, and Amanda Palmer as they dissect the initial findings from the Resilient Camp Blueprint Diagnostic. This episode explores the stark reality of how modern camps are operating, from the "all-or-nothing" nature of psychological safety to the industry's massive blind spot regarding AI and tech adoption. The team moves beyond simply identifying problems to offer tangible frameworks that help directors reclaim their time and build a camp that can survive (and thrive) even when the director isn't in the room.

Key takeaways include:

• The Psychological Safety Polarization: New data reveals a "bimodal" distribution in the industry. Camps either have high levels of staff trust or almost none, with very little middle ground. This suggests that psychological safety is a culture that must be built intentionally or it simply won't exist.
• The Director Trap: Many camps are dangerously dependent on a single person’s energy and knowledge. Transitioning from a "person-dependent" to a "system-dependent" model is the only way to prevent leadership burnout and ensure long-term operational resilience.
• The Parent Relationship Reframe: While many directors find parent communication draining, the team argues it is the primary relationship of the job. Systematizing family knowledge and feedback loops is essential for raising the bar on camper care and retention.
• Tools for Decision Fatigue: Empowering staff requires concrete tools. Frameworks like the Forest Test (Safe? Builds self-esteem? Stewardship? Servant leadership?) allow staff to make high-level decisions without constant oversight.

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• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro. Contact Email. 
• Chris Hudson, Camp Consultant - Planet Chris Consulting. Contact Email
• Kendra Perkins, Camp Consultant - Innovative Camp Company. 
• Amanda Palmer, Camp Consultant - Amanda C. Palmer Consulting. Contact Email. 

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Thanks to our sponsors!

UltraCamp

Running camp comes with enough moving parts. UltraCamp keeps registration, payments, and communication in one place—so you can spend less time juggling systems and more time building an incredible camp experience. Learn more at ultracampmanagement.com/camphacker.

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/iil-howie-g

In this episode of Intentionally Intentional Leaders, host Matt Wilfrid sits down with a living legend of the summer camp world: Howie Grossinger. As the co-owner of Camp Robin Hood and a pillar of the Ontario Camps Association, Howie brings over three decades of wisdom to a conversation that goes far beyond budget lines and schedules.

Using the randomness of a 20-sided die, Howie opens up about the moments that shaped him, from a sliding-doors moment where he almost chose dentistry over camp, to the early mentorship of Larry Bell that taught him the weight of responsibility. This episode is a deep dive into what it means to lead with a "safety net" mentality and how to maintain a personal touch in an increasingly digital world.

Key Takeaways include:

• The Power of the Pivot: Howie reflects on his transition from a planned career in health sciences to finding his "blood" in the youth education and camp space. It’s a reminder for camp pros that our "why" often finds us when we’re open to mentorship.
• Progress Over Perfection in Staffing: In a world obsessed with finding the "perfect fit," Howie argues for choosing coachability and heart over a flawless resume. By acting as a safety net for staff, directors can allow their teams the grace to grow into their roles.
• Engineering Belonging: While belonging is cultivated through relationships, Howie explains how it can be designed through intentional touchpoints. Whether it’s a personalized video message (using tools like Bonjoro) or a specific arrival system, the "feeling" of camp must be consistent from the first Zoom call to the last bus of the summer.
• Legacy and Resilience: Celebrating 80 years of Camp Robin Hood, Howie discusses the beauty of generational connection, where grandparents stand on the same docks as their grandchildren, and how leaning on a network of peers is the best defense against industry "despair."
• High Expectations, High Support: Borrowing from the philosophy of David Yeager, Howie emphasizes that the best leaders don't lower the bar; they simply increase the level of support provided to help their staff clear it.

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• Matt Wilfrid, Executive Producer of Podcasting at Go Camp Pro
• Howie Grossinger - Co-owner/Director - Camp Robin Hood, Partner - Camp Walden & Madawaska Camps

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Whereabouts

Your mission is campers. Ours is making their experience coordinated and connected.

Whereabouts is the only camper management system that keeps Parents, Admin, and Staff in sync in real time — so every camper’s day runs with confidence, clarity, and care. Check them out whereaboutsapp.io/

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

*This is a piece of sponsored content by our friends from Camptivities and Whereabouts. We are so grateful for Ryan and the Camptivities team for their support of many Go Camp Pro podcasts and we're excited to bring you this episode and share more about Whereabouts - Check them out whereaboutsapp.io*

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In this episode, Travis sits down with Ryan Rosen, a 28-year camp veteran and owner of a premier Los Angeles day camp, to discuss the intersection of "tech-free" camp philosophy and high-efficiency logistics. Ryan shares the origin story of Whereabouts, an innovative app designed to bridge the communication gap between parents and camp offices. From the "Spirit of Kaizen" to real-time attendance reconciliation, this conversation explores how small, iterative improvements in camp tech can lead to massive gains in safety, staff sanity, and parent satisfaction.

Key Takeaways include:

• The Spirit of Kaizen: Success isn't always about massive overhauls; it’s about the "incremental improvement" of systems. By questioning why "we’ve always done it this way," directors can identify stagnant procedures - like where T-shirts are handed out or how attendance is taken - and refine them for a better experience.
• Closing the "Lunchtime Gap": Many camps don't fully reconcile bus lists with group rosters until midday. Ryan explains how real-time widgets allow directors to know exactly who is on-site before the morning assembly even ends, meeting modern parent expectations for safety and transparency.
• Passive vs. Active Engagement: There is a fine line between "convenient" tech and "isolating" tech. Ryan discusses moving away from passive check-ins (like unattended QR codes) toward "human-powered" technology that prompts staff with camper birthdays or medical alerts during the check-in process.
• Empowering Gen-Z and Alpha Staff: Modern summer staff are digital natives. Asking them to manage complex paper-and-pen systems often leads to errors. Providing them with intuitive, mobile-first tools like Whereabouts aligns with their skills and reduces operational friction.
• Tech-Enabled Emergency Safety: Beyond daily attendance, the episode highlights the importance of "Emergency Pods." In the event of a wildfire or evacuation, having a cellular-connected system to track which kids are on which bus in real-time is a critical safety upgrade for any modern camp.

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Thanks to Camptivities and Whereabouts for sponsoring!

Your mission is campers. Ours is making their experience coordinated and connected.

Whereabouts is the only camper management system that keeps Parents, Admin, and Staff in sync in real time - so every camper’s day runs with confidence, clarity, and care. Check them out at whereaboutsapp.io

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/winning-over-parents

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Adapting to New Parent Expectations

Modern parents view summer camp as a significant investment, rather than a simple recreational activity. This episode breaks down why safety and skill-building now outperform traditional marketing. It offers practical advice on removing camp jargon and using professional tones to build lasting trust with protective families. You will learn how to win over parents by focusing on their child’s personhood during every interaction, from the first tour to the final checkout.

Key Takeaways:

• Prioritize Skill Building Over Recreation. Parents today view summer programs as a financial investment toward the future of their child. To compete with travel sports you must articulate the specific developmental gains and educational value your camp provides.
• Focus on the Child to Win the Parent. Trust is established when directors engage directly with the child during recruitment. Making a genuine connection with a camper signals to the parent that your organization is observant and capable of providing emotional safety.
• Eliminate Barriers Created by Jargon. Internal nicknames and camp shorthand make new families feel like outsiders. Using clear and descriptive language ensures that every family feels the program was designed specifically for their needs.

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• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro
• Chris Hudson, Camp Consultant. Contact Email
• Dan Weir, Camp Consultant Immersive1st, Day Camp Community
• Suzanne Ross, Camp Safety Network Consultant. Contact Email   

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UltraCamp

Running camp comes with enough moving parts. UltraCamp keeps registration, payments, and communication in one place—so you can spend less time juggling systems and more time building an incredible camp experience. Learn more at ultracampmanagement.com/camphacker.

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/welcoming-new-campers

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This episode provides a masterclass on transforming the high-stakes environment of opening day into a welcoming and inclusive experience for every child. Learn how to break down the psychological and logistical barriers that often make first-time campers feel like outsiders. By focusing on intentional preparation, empathy-driven staff training, and subtle shifts in camp traditions, leaders can ensure that the "welcome home" starts long before the family car pulls into the gate.

Key Takeaways:

• Implement a Camper Liaison Program. Designating a specific staff member to connect with new families via Zoom or phone calls before camp helps lower anxiety for both parents and children. These sessions allow kids to ask small but vital questions like what food is served or where the bathrooms are located, which helps them feel seen and prepared.
• Apply the Pass Down Principle during Training. The way leadership treats staff during orientation becomes the blueprint for how staff treat campers. If you want counsellors to give a warm and energetic greeting, you must model that exact behaviour the moment they arrive for staff training.
• Audit Your Traditions for Inclusivity. Use a Sherlock Holmes perspective to notice things that have become invisible to you over time. This includes checking if your opening day games are "out games" that might embarrass a new camper or ensuring your "Welcome Home" greeting feels authentic rather than intimidating for someone who has never been there before.

• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro
• Chris Hudson, Camp Consultant. Contact Email
• Kim Aycock, Camp Consultant and Staff Trainer
• Michael Brandwein, Camp Consultant, Writer

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Rate and Review the CampHacker Show

(Thank you!)

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UltraCamp

Running camp comes with enough moving parts. UltraCamp keeps registration, payments, and communication in one place—so you can spend less time juggling systems and more time building an incredible camp experience. Learn more at ultracampmanagement.com/camphacker.

Camptivities

If you’re still making camp schedules in spreadsheets, you know how draining it is and how often mistakes slip in. Enter Camptivities. It’s made by camp people, for camp people - to save time, cut errors, and make camp run smoother. Be the change your camp needs - explore smarter scheduling today at camptivities.com

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/iil-gabe-c

The End of the "Magic" Myth: Gabe Chernov on Engineering Social-Emotional Growth

In this episode of Intentionally Intentional Leaders, Travis Allison talks with Gabe Chernov, the owner and director of Birch Trail Camp for Girls. They explore the small interactions that stick with us forever and the systems Gabe uses to build a resilient camp culture.

Gabe talks about the deep impact of a camp director’s letter during a time he felt childhood homesickness and how he uses that same spirit of mentorship today. They dive into the post-COVID challenges of youth development, which led Birch Trail to create a custom values-based board game to help campers talk about their feelings. Whether he is explaining the process of scaffolding a wilderness trip or the non-negotiable need for eight hours of sleep, Gabe shows how to lead with a mix of data and empathy.

Key Takeaways for Camp Professionals

• The Power of the Nothing Moment. Gabe and Travis discuss how a tiny interaction, like learning the right way to drink from a glass soda bottle, can stay with a person for decades. Gabe uses these stories to remind his staff that they are always making a permanent impact even when they do not realize it.
• Gamifying Values and Empathy. To help kids with the social effects of the pandemic, Birch Trail developed a physical board game and value cards. This tool gives campers the specific language they need to express gratitude and work through feelings within their cabin group.
• Scaffolding for Growth. Gabe describes camp as a process by design. By carefully planning every activity and wilderness trip, directors create a safe environment where campers are encouraged to fail, learn from that failure, and build true resilience.
• The Midnight Rule for Staff Wellness. Long before sleep science was a major trend in the industry, Gabe implemented a mandatory midnight shutdown for staff lounges. He talks about the importance of being unpopular in the short term to protect the long-term health and safety of the counselors.
• Distinguishing Needs from Demands. With parent advocacy on the rise, Gabe shares his framework for saying no. He breaks down the difference between an individual demand and a communal need, explaining that a camp must say no when a request hurts the collective experience of the cabin.

Connect with Gabe. If you have questions about Birch Trail’s programming or their values board game, you can reach out to Gabe Chernov at [email protected].

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis

Have some feedback? A topic suggestion? Text us!

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/camphacker/the-enrollment-cliff

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Preparing for the Demographic Shift of 2028

Join Travis Allison, Jake Sorenson, Eric Wittenberg, and Stefanie Gillman as they discuss the massive demographic shifts threatening the summer camp industry. The conversation centers on the "enrollment cliff", a sharp decline in birth rates that is already impacting higher education and is set to hit the camp industry's median age group by 2028. They explore why camps must move beyond their historically white, middle-class roots and start engaging diverse communities, alumni networks, and even older populations to ensure survival.
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• Travis - Joyful Belonging Newsletter by Casper ter Kuile
• Jake - Kenn Gronbach Demographer
• Eric - Innovation Accounting
• Stefanie - The Unstuck Box

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• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro
• Jake Sorenson, Sacred Playgrounds Director
• Eric Wittenberg, Camp Machine and Camp Stack CEO
• Stefanie Gillman, Hofstra Summer Camps Director

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Rate and Review the CampHacker Show

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UltraCamp

Running camp comes with enough moving parts. UltraCamp keeps registration, payments, and communication in one place—so you can spend less time juggling systems and more time building an incredible camp experience. Learn more at ultracampmanagement.com/camphacker.

Whereabouts

Your mission is campers. Ours is making their experience coordinated and connected. Whereabouts is the only camper management system that keeps Parents, Admin, and Staff in sync in real time — so every camper’s day runs with confidence, clarity, and care. Check them out at whereaboutsapp.io/

Our free Resilient Camp Blueprint diagnostic is available at: https://camp.mba/travis