The Church sees the world as God’s good and harmonious Creation, a primordial peace. In his acclaimed book "Before Church and State," Andrew Willard Jones revealed that society in the High Middle Ages was a striving toward liberation by grace, which led to subsidiarity. In The Church Against the State, he argues that this uniquely Christian political form is still with us, present in our love, our courage, and in all that is noble within us, brought to new life through the Church. In this podcast, Marc Barnes interviews Andrew Willard Jones on his new book "The Church Against the State."