Over the weekend, President Donald Trump ordered up the National Guard to deal with violence that broke out in Los Angeles amid protests of Trump’s immigration policies. This has angered California Governor Gavin Newsom, who is suing to stop it. But then Trump expressly told reporters that he might send the Marines into California. He also openly endorsed the idea that federal law enforcement should arrest Newsom based on zero legal basis. Taken together, those moves show Trump’s perpetual threat to unleash troops on Americans getting much darker and more unnerving. We talked to former federal prosecutor Barbara McQuade, author of the book Attack from Within: How Disinformation is Sabotaging America. She explains why Trump’s moves are increasingly lawless, how this is all posing a severe test to our system, and ponders whether we’re passing that test—or failing it.

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