Dr. Anita Phillips spent 27 years married, went through a divorce, and still woke up the next day believing God is good. That's not a talking point. That's a testimony.

In this conversation, the NYT bestselling author of The Garden Within, trauma therapist, and lead pastor joins Lecrae for one of the most wide-ranging, deeply personal episodes of The Deep End yet.

They go everywhere. From her unlikely journey starting as a math and physics major, to why she'd rather have a spiritually open Hollywood than a religiously closed church. From why anxiety is actually a scarcity mindset, to the moment she was told in her PhD program that she was "misusing the Bible." From a deep breakdown of why the five stages of grief were never designed for survivors, to what it actually looks like to heal when you have every tool and still hit the floor.

Dr. Anita doesn't just bring frameworks. She brings receipts from her own life.

This one goes deep.

The Garden Within is available now wherever books are sold. __

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Some of what you've said about me is right. I want to say which parts, specifically.

When Reach Records partnered with Phillip Anthony Mitchell and 2819 Church, it cracked something open — years of assumptions, questions, and criticisms about Lecrae that people had been carrying quietly suddenly got loud. So instead of guessing what people were thinking, he asked. Voice memos. Real questions. No prepared statements.

In this episode, Lecrae listens and responds in real time — to the secular collab criticism, the Cross Movement distance, the Reformed theology departure, the Warnock rally confusion, the people who think his music got watered down, and the Christians who've been watching him for 23 years wondering which direction he's really headed.

He also speaks directly to the people who are done with church but still craving community — and to anyone who's ever felt like they just can't win on either side.

No PR answer. No saving face. Just an honest one.

Topics covered:

• Why the 2819 partnership brought everything to the surface
• Secular collabs: missionary or compromiser?
• Why he stepped back from Reformed theology circles
• Cross Movement, the Ambassadors, and the bitterness he had to own
• Growing up in public without a roadmap
• "Die for the Party" and what it costs to be rebuked by the church
• Mental health stigma in the church
• For the 24-year-old stuck between the 9-to-5 and the dream
• A public apology — and what he'd do differently

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She grew up in one of the most famous families in American sports — and somehow didn't fully realize it until Deion's Hall of Fame weekend.

Deondra Sanders sits down with Lecrae to talk about growing up as Primetime's daughter, losing herself in a relationship, navigating a high-risk pregnancy, postpartum depression, a very public breakup, and what it actually looks like to rebuild when the whole world is watching.

She gets honest about the moment she got angry with God. About choosing to come back anyway.

Deondra Sanders is the eldest daughter of NFL Hall of Famer Deion Sanders. An entrepreneur, philanthropist, and athlete manager, she's built her own lane far from the spotlight — until life pulled her into the middle of it.

In this episode, Deondra and Lecrae cover:

• Growing up as Deion's daughter and not realizing what that meant until she was 21
• How a privileged childhood quietly killed her ambition
• Losing herself in a relationship — and having to forgive herself for it
• The pregnancy her family didn't take well, and why her dad surprised her
• Postpartum depression: what nobody tells you, and what it actually felt like
• The public fallout — what she wishes she'd done differently, and why she responded the way she did
• Getting angry at God for giving her the blessing she prayed for the wrong way
• Where she is now, and why she knows she's moving in the right direction

KB has been one of the most theologically sharp voices in Christian hip hop for over two decades. In this episode, he finally says what he's never said publicly — about his relationship with Lecrae, the tension inside 116, and the years it took to get to the other side of it.

This one goes deep.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• How KB came to faith at 16 through a bootleg mixtape
• The Flavor Fest moment that connected KB and Lecrae for the first time
• What KB was carrying inside 116 that Lecrae didn't know about
• The counseling session KB needed before he could tour with Lecrae
• The South by Southwest text that nearly fractured the movement
• Why KB felt Lecrae was over-indexing his mainstream reach
• The tearful reconciliation — and what it took to get there
• KB on reformed theology, race, and navigating Black identity in evangelical spaces
• Why KB says the new generation of Christian artists is getting the victory without the cross
• Contentment as a superpower — and why suffering is how you get it
• KB's new album This Cannot Be Sold and what's next

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Two days before this conversation, Sarah Jakes Roberts fractured her neck in three places jumping on a trampoline with her daughter.

Touré Roberts still showed up.

In this episode, Touré sits down with Lecrae hours after learning his wife wouldn't need emergency surgery — still processing the fear, still breaking down twice a day, still on a book tour. What he shares is raw, unfiltered, and completely different from anything you've seen from him on a stage.

They go deep on what it's really like to build a life and a ministry with Sarah, how Bishop Jakes' famous first question changed everything, and what Touré's new book Knowing: The Journey to Certainty in an Uncertain World has to say about finding clarity when everything around you is loud and uncertain.

Plus: the bullet that moved in his chest at 16, why he almost walked away from business to follow God, and the tension between being the man behind a rising force and knowing exactly who you are. _

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Tim Ross has been canceled. Accused of being in the Illuminati. Called out online. Lost a business partnership he thought God ordained. Watched a spiritual father go to prison. And somehow, he's the most unbothered man in the room. In this episode, Lecrae sits down with his blood relative and the founder of The Basement podcast for one of the most honest conversations the show has ever had. From surviving sexual abuse in Inglewood to stepping down from a 30-year pastoral career, from processing Robert Morris to writing a book his therapist says is worth two years of counseling — Tim Ross holds nothing back.

Tim's upbringing in Inglewood and how Gen X shaped his entire worldview. The "stripper pastor" controversy explained in his own words. Why he believes Jesus on the cross is the ultimate strip. 30 years of ministry and why he left his congregation. Processing Robert Morris's confession as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. Why visiting a man in prison is not the same as excusing what he did. The B-Side record label, why it ended, and the lesson about money that isn't confirmation from God. His new book and why you won't finish it if you're not ready to face yourself. Why online Christian culture is off-mission. What the critics of the church actually get right.

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Avery Austin Jr. — known online as GodLogic — has 500K+ subscribers and streams apologetics debates live three times a week. He grew up as a preacher's kid in Lancaster, California. Got ordained at 20. Got stumped by a Jehovah's Witness at a community college. And decided the whole church needed to get equipped.

In this episode of The Deep End, Lecrae plays TikTok devil's advocate — throwing Islam's best arguments, Hebrew Israelite talking points, and the problem of evil at GodLogic live. He answers every single one.

They also go deep on: what happens to the souls you never hear from again, the gap between intellectual certainty and real faith, and what GodLogic prays for after every stream.

-------------

_______________________________________________

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John Bevere spent 40 years avoiding the end times. He thought it made people lazy, argumentative, and passive. Then God told him to study it — and after 1,000+ hours in Scripture, everything changed.

In this episode of The Deep End with Lecrae, John unpacks what he found: the Second Coming isn't an event to fear. It's a wedding to prepare for. And there's a mathematical case — built entirely from Scripture — that it's closer than most people realize. John breaks down why Jesus rebuked Jerusalem for missing the signs of His first coming, how the Dead Sea Scrolls upend everything you thought you knew about the Rapture, and the one Greek word that transforms anxiety about the end times into something far more powerful: eager expectation.

This isn't prophecy sensationalism. It's 40 years of wisdom finally unlocked — and it will change how you live today. _______________________________________________

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DeVon Franklin is a Hollywood producer, preacher, and New York Times bestselling author. His credits include Miracles from Heaven, Breakthrough, Flamin' Hot, and The Pursuit of Happyness. He is the founder of DeVon Franklin Entertainment. His latest film, Ruth and Boaz, is streaming on Netflix now.

In this episode: DeVon's origin in East Oakland, how his father's death at nine years old became the fuel, what he told his congregation at 16, the Paramount deal collapse, the season with no deal after Flamin' Hot, burning the DeVon Franklin Universe pie chart, the Relationship Goals controversy and why he stands behind it, how life imitated art during Ruth and Boaz, the achievement addiction he finally broke, and an exclusive announcement on his next biblical film.

Subscribe to The Deep End with Lecrae for more conversations at the intersection of faith, culture, and real life.

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Former Muslim, attorney, and apologist Abdu Murray spent nine years studying Islam, Christianity, philosophy, and history. By year two, he had enough evidence to convert. It took seven more years to act on it.

In this conversation, Abdu and Lecrae go deep on why the cross does not insult God's greatness. It proves it. They explore how identity in Middle Eastern culture can make leaving Islam feel impossible, which Quran passages pointed Abdu toward the Bible, and what his nine-year search looked like from the inside.

They also discuss the identity crisis AI is quietly accelerating, why cancel culture is really assassination culture with better branding, why many people are missing the point in the gender conversation, and what it means to answer a person instead of a question.

Abdu also shares, for the first time in this conversation, that his father was murdered in October 2024. What Abdu says about that moment, and how it reshaped the way Abdu sees the problem of evil, is worth the whole episode.

Topics covered: Islam and Christianity, the problem of evil, apologetics, identity and the imago Dei, AI and human worth, gender ideology, just war theory, deconstruction, and what it costs to tell the truth when your whole family is watching.

Abdu Murray is the founder of Embrace the Truth Ministry, author of Fake ID, and host of multiple podcasts reaching millions globally.

Find Abdu at embracethetruth.org | @AbduMurray12 on Instagram

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