On this episode of the Ephesiology Podcast, Andrew and Michael are joined again by Pastor Caleb Campbell, author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor as they discuss what it means to be the Church in a moment of extreme political and cultural division? Together, they wrestle with the pastoral challenges of shepherding congregations split between celebration and fear, the theological stakes of Christian nationalism, and how to faithfully bear witness to Christ amid the chaos. If you’ve ever wondered how to navigate this political moment with wisdom, grace, and a kingdom-first mindset, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.
Show Notes
In this episode of The Ephesiology Podcast, Pastor Andrew Johnson, Dr. Michael Cooper, and Pastor Caleb Campbell discuss the complexities of pastoring in an increasingly polarized political and cultural landscape. Caleb, author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor, shares his experiences leading a congregation with deeply divided perspectives following the recent election of Donald Trump as the 47th President. The conversation explores the tensions between faith and politics, the challenge of shepherding a diverse body of believers, and how the Church can remain faithful to Christ’s mission in this moment.
Key Topics Covered
The personal and pastoral challenges of navigating political division in the ChurchThe rise of Christian nationalism and its impact on the evangelical movementThe role of fear, celebration, and tribalism in shaping Christian engagementHow pastors can foster peacemaking, empathy, and unity in divided congregationsThe biblical and historical warnings against political idolatry (Revelation 2: Pergamum’s Compromise)The importance of rooting the Church’s identity in Christ, not political ideologiesPractical steps for equipping leaders and congregants to embody the gospel in this polarized climateQuotes from the Episode
“Jesus called misfits to follow Him together. The Church was always meant to be socioeconomically, politically, and ethnically diverse.” – Caleb Campbell“The early Church’s witness was clear: Declare that Jesus is God, and do things better than anyone else.” – Dr. Michael Cooper“We don’t get to resurrection without a death. The Church must be willing to die to the false glories of the kingdoms of this world.” – Caleb CampbellResources Mentioned
Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor by Caleb Campbell – Available at IVP Press and AmazonDisarming Leviathan Podcast – Exploring missional engagement with Christian nationalism – Visit disarmingleviathan.comEphesiology Masterclasses – Explore how God is calling you to engage culture with a missiological mindset – masterclasses.ephesiology.comConnect With Us
Follow Ephesiology: Website | Twitter/X/ | InstagramFollow Andrew Johnson on Bluesky: @thediscfan.bsky.socialIf this episode resonated with you, please leave a review and share it with others navigating these important conversations. Thanks for doing theology in community with us today!
Catch Up on Related Podcasts
This Political Moment – Faith and Politics Series
Scot McKnight – Revelatioin for the Rest of Us – Episode 139
Andrew Whitehead – Christian Nationalism – Episode 149
If you have a question or topic that you’d like to hear addressed on the Ephesiology Podcast, just send it to Andrew at [email protected].
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Michael CooperProfessor | Missiologist | Author
Michael is the missiologist in residence with East West where he focuses on equipping and empowering church leaders in evangelism, discipleship, leadership, and catalyzing church planting movements in the most difficult to reach places on the planet. He is the author of Ephesiology: The Study of the Ephesian Movement.
Andrew JohnsonAssociate Pastor, Neartown Church
Andrew is a pastor, husband and father who desires all to know the one true King. He happily serves at Neartown Church in Houston, TX with a vibrant and growing community. He is the co-host of the Ephesiology Podcast. He is currently a Doctor of Ministry student at Kairos University.
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