Nicholas Gruen, CEO of Lateral Economics, and host Gene Tunny discuss the topics of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) mandates and Liberty. They explore how ESG mandates can create confusion among executives and investors, and delve into Nicholas' perspective on Liberty, how to take it seriously and the best way to think about it. Nicholas tells a story from the early 1980s about how he tried to change Australia’s laws which allow Parliament to lock people up for contempt of Parliament. The conversation also touches on Nicholas' concept of citizens' juries, which is gaining support internationally, including from Martin Wolf at the Financial Times.

Nicholas Gruen, CEO of Lateral Economics, and host Gene Tunny discuss the topics of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) mandates and Liberty. They explore how ESG mandates can create confusion among executives and investors, and delve into Nicholas' perspective on Liberty, how to take it seriously and the best way to think about it. Nicholas tells a story from the early 1980s about how he tried to change Australia’s laws which allow Parliament to lock people up for contempt of Parliament. The conversation also touches on Nicholas' concept of citizens' juries, which is gaining support internationally, including from Martin Wolf at the Financial Times.

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What’s covered in EP199

[00:01:32] Citizens' juries and economic policy. 

[00:02:41] Does divestment from emissions intensive firms reduce emissions?

[00:06:47] Investing in fossil fuel companies to help them transition.   

[00:11:58] Carbon pricing. 

[00:17:54] Australian consumers and carbon pricing. 

[00:23:26] A different mode of governance. 

[00:26:14] Liberty during the COVID pandemic. 

[00:30:46] House of Commons Privileges Committee. 

[00:34:32] Safeguards and legitimacy in governance. 

[00:40:25] Rushed legislation during a pandemic. 

[00:43:33] High level political discussion. 

[00:50:06] Managing a crisis.

Links relevant to the conversation

Nicholas’s YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@NicholasGruen

Videos of conversations featured this episode:

Why ESG is a puppet show and what to do about it  

Liberty: Safety from tyranny or doing what you like?

Club Troppo posts:

https://clubtroppo.com.au/2023/07/11/why-esg-is-a-puppet-show-and-what-to-do-about-it/

https://clubtroppo.com.au/2021/08/22/lockdowns-and-liberty/

Regarding the journalists locked up the Australian Parliament in the 1950s:

https://clubtroppo.com.au/2021/08/22/lockdowns-and-liberty/

Freakonomics episode on ESG that Nicholas mentions:

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/are-e-s-g-investors-actually-helping-the-environment/

Thanks to Obsidian Productions for mixing the episode and to the show’s sponsor, Gene’s consultancy business www.adepteconomics.com.au. 

Full transcripts are available a few days after the episode is first published at www.economicsexplored.com. Economics Explored is available via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, and other podcasting platforms.