AI can write essays, generate code, and assist with research, but does that mean it will replace human workers? Economist Benjamin Shiller, author of AI Economics, joins show host Gene to discuss how AI may instead make human creativity and ideas even more valuable. In this conversation with Gene Tunny, they explore AI’s potential impact on jobs, productivity growth, education, and inequality, as well as the risks the technology could pose.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

Benjamin Shiller is an Associate Professor of Economics at Brandeis University. His research on personalized pricing, ad-blocking, and technological change has been published in leading journals and covered in The Atlantic, The Economist, Forbes, Fortune, The Guardian, and The Washington Post.

Benjamin Shiller’s website:

https://benjaminshiller.com/

AI Economics: How Technology Transforms Jobs, Markets, Life, & Our Future:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G45MKBZT

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Australia’s productivity growth has slowed to its weakest rate in decades — and that matters because productivity ultimately drives rising living standards. In this episode, Gene Tunny explores why productivity is so central to higher wages, economic growth, and sustainable prosperity. The episode features insights from Danielle Wood, Chair of the Productivity Commission, on why policymakers need a “growth mindset,” followed by highlights from a lively roundtable discussion on the policies shaping productivity in Australia — including energy costs, taxation, regulation, and government spending.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

Markets & Motives Ep. 1 – Dr Danielle Wood with Isabella Sciacca:

https://youtu.be/L0BP_pGbHuQ?si=aA914CAhw4iZ8_to

Beyond the Roundtable: Real Solutions for Australia’s Productivity Plunge - ep295:

https://economics-explained.simplecast.com/episodes/beyond-the-roundtable-real-solutions-for-australias-productivity-plunge-ep295

Damian Coory’s The Other Side:

https://www.youtube.com/@OtherSideAus

The Whitlam Era book, published by Connor Court:

https://www.amazon.com.au/WHITLAM-ERA-REAPPRAISAL-GOVERNMENT-POLITICS/dp/1925826945

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Argentina was on the brink: inflation near 300% a year, real wages collapsing, poverty rising, and a large fiscal deficit. Voters elected libertarian economist Javier Milei, who promised deep spending cuts and radical reform. Many predicted a disaster. Two years on, inflation has fallen sharply, and real wages are projected to rise. In this episode, show host Gene Tunny chats with John Humphreys (Australian Taxpayers’ Alliance Chief Economist) and Michael Arbon (adviser to Senator Ralph Babet) on how disinflation works, why fiscal credibility matters, and what Argentina’s experience could mean for Australia — particularly on energy policy and political risk. Gene also briefly touches on developments in the Iran war and their potential global economic implications.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

John’s Substack post, “What can we learn from Milei's Argentina?”:

https://austaxpayers.substack.com/p/what-can-we-learn-from-mileis-argentina

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What would tax reform look like if the goal were higher wages and stronger long-term growth — rather than more revenue? In this episode, Gene Tunny and John Humphreys examine capital gains tax, bracket creep, and income tax reform through the lens of productivity and living standards. While the discussion focuses on Australia, the principles apply everywhere. How should governments tax capital versus labour? Should tax brackets be indexed to inflation? And how can tax systems encourage saving, investment, and innovation? This episode explores the economic ideas behind a genuinely pro-growth tax reform agenda.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

Introduction to the Podcast and Episode Theme (0:00)

Discussion on Productivity and Tax Reform (2:17)

Capital Gains Tax Discussion (7:22)

Proposed Tax Reforms and Economic Benefits (19:56)

Indexing Tax Brackets to Eliminate Bracket Creep (45:41)

Conclusion and Final Thoughts (49:03)

The Australian Taxpayers’ Alliance livestreams that this episode borrows from…

Bold tax cut proposal for a new opposition || #32:

https://www.youtube.com/live/HYsNOmJ1tKc?si=ZCqtX2f5FWmxDo0C

Taxes are going up || #31 

https://www.youtube.com/live/UkQWVCo1Qko?si=Cyp-SBtjdYI3nBRp

Related ATA newsletter articles:

https://austaxpayers.substack.com/p/bold-tax-proposal-for-a-new-opposition

https://austaxpayers.substack.com/p/tax-hikes-on-alcohol-and-petrol

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Adam Smith is often invoked as the intellectual godfather of modern capitalism — but he was also a moral philosopher. Judo Bank founder and former CEO Joseph Healy joins Gene Tunny to argue that Australia’s market economy has drifted from Smith’s vision. From weak competition and high household debt to corporate scandals and lobbying influence, this episode explores whether capitalism has been “hijacked by capitalists” — and why complacency may be Australia’s greatest economic risk.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

Joseph Healy is an experienced Australian banking executive and the author of What Would Adam Smith Make of Modern Australia? He has had a long career in financial services in Australia and internationally, including as a co-founder and former CEO of Judo Bank, a specialist SME bank. Joseph has a longstanding interest in Adam Smith’s work as both an economist and moral philosopher. In his book, he draws on The Wealth of Nations and The Theory of Moral Sentiments to assess the state of modern Australian capitalism — examining competition, corporate governance, banking, regulation, education, and the relationship between economic performance and societal wellbeing.

1. Why Adam Smith must be read as both an economist and a moral philosopher.
2. How shareholder value thinking reshaped corporate incentives from the 1980s onward.
3. Why weak competition in banking, airlines, retail, and energy may be generating economic rents in Australia.
4. How the shift of bank lending toward housing may have created systemic risk and underinvestment in SMEs in Australia.
5. Why Joseph gives Australia a C+ overall — and why that grade could deteriorate.

02:25 – Why Joseph wrote to The Economist
The 250th anniversary of The Wealth of Nations and reclaiming Smith’s legacy.

09:18 – Why Moral Sentiments still matters
“Loved and lovely” — Smith’s moral framework explained.

16:30 – The legal test vs the moral test
“It’s not ‘Will we get caught?’ — it’s ‘Is this the right thing to do?’”

18:29 – Shareholder value and the erosion of restraint
How incentives shifted corporate behaviour from the 1980s onward.

27:39 – Banking concentration and the shift to mortgages
Big Four dominance and declining SME lending.

31:05 – Systemic risk and household leverage
Is Australia too exposed to housing debt?

36:10 – Lobbying and barriers to competition
Why reform is politically difficult.

40:45 – Five areas of reform
Government size, competition, tax reform, governance, trade unions & education.

48:34 – The Qantas example
Lobbying, protection, and consumer impact.

51:39 – What would Adam Smith make of Australia?
The “report card”: A for trade, D for competition, C+ overall.

55:11 – Reclaiming capitalism
“Capture it back again so it’s working for everybody.”

Joseph’s book, What Would Adam Smith Make of Modern Australia?

https://majorstreet.com.au/products/what-would-adam-smith-make-of-modern-australia-br-i-small-by-joseph-healy-i-small

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What do we actually count as economic activity — and what do we leave out? In this episode, Gene speaks with economist Misty Heggeness about Swiftynomics, her new book on women’s work, unpaid care, and the limits of standard economic statistics. Misty uses Taylor Swift as a narrative anchor for a broader argument about care, work, and economic growth. She argues that large amounts of productive activity — especially care and household work — sit outside GDP. The conversation explores unpaid labour, the gender pay gap, universal childcare, and whether rethinking what we measure could lead to better economic policy.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

Misty L. Heggeness is an associate professor in the School of Public Affairs and Administration and an associate research scientist in the Institute for Policy and Social Research at the University of Kansas. She has over a decade of experience leading high-profile research that informed decision-making within the U.S. federal government. Her research focuses on poverty & inequality, gender economics, and the high-skilled workforce and has appeared in outlets like The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, NPR, The Economist, and Science.

https://spaa.ku.edu/people/misty-heggeness

1. GDP measures market activity — but ignores much unpaid care and household work.
2. Women, on average, do more total economic activity per day once unpaid work is included.
3. How we measure the economy influences which policies governments prioritise.

• Introduction to the Podcast and Guest (0:00)
• Discussion on the Book's Theme (2:31)
• Taylor Swift's Relevance and Personal Experiences (4:34)
• Defining Swiftynomics and Its Broader Implications (12:08)
• Policy Proposals and Universal Child Care (14:03)
• Gender Pay Gap and Workplace Flexibility (18:43)
• Affirmative Action and Gender Quotas (28:54)
• Conclusion and Key Takeaways (36:53)

Swiftynomics: How Women Mastermind and Redefine Our Economy:

https://www.amazon.com/Swiftynomics-Women-Mastermind-Redefine-Economy/dp/0520403118

The Care Board:

https://thecareboard.org/ 

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What does free speech have to do with economics? A lot more than you might think. In this episode, Gene Tunny is joined by John Humphreys to explore free speech as a core institutional pillar of prosperous societies. From Mao’s Great Leap Forward to modern Australia, they show how restricting speech distorts incentives, breaks feedback loops, and leads to catastrophic policy failure. Even well-intentioned speech laws, they argue, can have dangerous unintended consequences.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

1. Why economists see free speech as a feedback mechanism, similar to prices in markets
2. How restricting speech shifts incentives from truth-seeking to conformity
3. Why censorship often hides problems until they become crises
4. How historical disasters, like China’s Great Leap Forward, illustrate the cost of silenced feedback
5. Why tolerating error is essential for democracy, learning, and social progress

• Free Speech and Its Importance (0:00)
• The Role of Free Speech in Democracy (4:16)
• Historical Context and Legal Perspectives (9:00)
• Tolerance and the Enlightenment (11:03)
• The Impact of Free Speech Restrictions (16:02)
• The Politics of Free Speech Legislation (20:21)
• The Evolution of Anti-Speech Legislation (22:15)
• The Role of Multiculturalism and Social Cohesion (22:31)
• The Future of Free Speech Legislation (32:45)

Gene and John’s recent Australian Taxpayers’ Alliance livestreams on free speech:

https://www.youtube.com/live/ZdQ2y96QakI?si=cCKdaqylXJ03FgFa

https://www.youtube.com/live/fvd3usSMT3o?si=oIr7UJrO9C53Fi4c

Chris Berg’s Institutional Theory of Free Speech:

https://chrisberg.org/2017/02/an-institutional-theory-of-free-speech/

The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure:

https://www.amazon.com.au/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224897

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Auckland’s upzoning reforms have become a global case study in housing policy. Gene Tunny and John August dig into the data behind claims that loosening zoning rules boosted housing supply and eased rent pressures. They explore the statistical methods used, the critiques raised by sceptics, and the limits of zoning reform on its own. The episode also examines infrastructure constraints and whether complementary policies are essential for real housing affordability gains.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

• Auckland Upzoning and Housing Affordability (0:00)
• Introduction of John August and Initial Discussion (3:41)
• Statistical Analysis and Critiques (3:59)
• Cameron Murray and Tim Helm’s analysis (7:33)
• Broader Economic Context and Infrastructure (25:23)
• Conclusion and Future Directions (46:23)

1. Rigorous statistical studies find a strong link between upzoning and increased housing consents in Auckland.
2. Critics argue that zoning reform alone cannot overcome development cycles, infrastructure bottlenecks, or land banking.
3. Development approvals are a useful, though imperfect, proxy for actual housing supply growth.
4. Infrastructure provision is crucial—densification without follow-through can reduce amenity and limit affordability gains.
5. Zoning reform works best as part of a broader policy package, potentially including land value taxation to fund essential infrastructure.

The impact of upzoning on housing construction in Auckland by Ryan Greenaway-McGrevy and Peter C.B. Phillips:

https://cowles.yale.edu/sites/default/files/2024-02/p1863.pdf

Zoning and housing supply: empirics in search of a theory by Tim Helm and Cameron Murray:

https://ace2025.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/01-Tim-ACE-2025-Tim-Helm-TAKE-II.pdf

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Show host Gene Tunny speaks with cybersecurity expert Bruce Schneier of the Harvard Kennedy School about his new book, Rewiring Democracy, which explores the profound and often underappreciated ways AI is already reshaping democratic institutions. From AI-powered political campaigns and legislative drafting to citizen engagement and court systems, Schneier lays out both the potential and the peril of this technological transformation.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

• Introduction (0:00)
• Bruce Schneier's New Book "Rewiring Democracy" (1:44)
• Impact of AI on Democracy and Humanity (4:25)
• AI in Government Administration and Courts (9:12)
• Examples of AI in Citizen Assemblies and Public AI (12:02)
• Challenges and Opportunities with AI in Democracy (18:10)
• Regulation and Accountability of AI (22:04)

1. AI is already transforming democracy. It plays roles in political campaigning, lawmaking, courtrooms, and public service—even if we don’t always notice it.
2. The real danger is corporate control. Schneier stresses that AI’s trajectory is largely shaped by a small group of powerful tech companies and calls for “public AI” as a counterbalance.
3. AI is a tool, not a force. Whether AI supports democracy or authoritarianism depends entirely on how humans use it.
4. Citizens can be empowered by AI. Projects from CalMatters and make.org show how AI can help amplify civic voices and improve transparency.
5. Urgent regulation is needed. Schneier argues that AI, like cars or planes, must be regulated for safety, transparency, and accountability—especially to prevent manipulation and abuse.

Bruce’s book - Rewiring Democracy: How AI Will Transform Our Politics, Government, and Citizenship

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262049948/rewiring-democracy/

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Gene responds to thoughtful listener feedback on record-low fertility rates and explores why childcare, IVF, and returning to work for fortysomething mothers can be so economically challenging. He then travels back to ancient Rome to unpack a curious moment after Augustus’s victory over Antony and Cleopatra, when treasure flooded into Rome, interest rates plummeted, and land values soared—and explains how this fits neatly into modern monetary economics. Finally, Gene revisits remarkable exchanges between Milton Friedman, Alan Greenspan, and Ronald Reagan that shed fresh light on the perennial debate over the gold standard.

Gene would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can email him via [email protected]. 

• Introduction (0:00)
• Childcare Costs and Staffing Ratios (5:15)
• IVF Costs and Penalties for Women Returning to Work (9:52)
• Rise of Singleton Households and Economics of Smaller Populations (17:32)
• Economic Impact of Ancient Rome’s Influx of Gold and Treasure (22:56)
• Milton Friedman and the Gold Standard (42:01)

1. Childcare costs are structurally high due to labour intensity, mandated staff–child ratios, and qualification requirements.
2. The “motherhood penalty” is real and appears driven partly by human capital loss during career breaks and partly by occupational choices for flexibility.
3. Augustus’s influx of treasure into Rome increased real money balances, pushing interest rates from ~12% to ~4% and boosting land prices—an excellent real-world example of short-run monetary non-neutrality.
4. Milton Friedman and Alan Greenspan both advised Ronald Reagan NOT to pursue a gold standard, arguing fiscal discipline and controlled monetary growth matter more than metal backing.

Referenced Previous Episodes

Is Gold Flashing a Warning Sign? 

https://economics-explained.simplecast.com/episodes/is-gold-flashing-a-warning-sign-ep303

The Great Baby Bust

https://economics-explained.simplecast.com/episodes/the-great-baby-bust-why-it-happened-and-what-it-means-for-us-ep300

The Gender Pay Debate: Understanding the Factors Behind the Gap w/ Dr Leonora Risse - EP230

https://economics-explained.simplecast.com/episodes/the-gender-pay-debate-understanding-the-factors-behind-the-gap-w-dr-leonora-risse-ep230

The Gender Pay Gap w/ Dr Leonora Risse

https://economics-explained.simplecast.com/episodes/the-gender-pay-gap-with-dr-leonora-risse

China’s falling population & global population update - EP174

https://economics-explained.simplecast.com/episodes/chinas-falling-population-global-population-update-ep174

U.S. Census data on rising singleton households

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/06/more-than-a-quarter-all-households-have-one-person.html  

“The Motherhood Wage Penalty: A Meta-Analysis” – Social Science Research paper

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X20300144

Florida childcare staffing ratios

https://www.elcslc.org/parents/vpk-locator/licensing-files-what-to-look-for/state-of-florida-mandated-adult-to-child-ratios/

Australian childcare qualification requirements

https://earlychildhood.qld.gov.au/careers/qualifications-and-pathways/approved-qualifications

Books Mentioned

Tom Holland’s translation of Suetonius – Lives of the Caesars

https://www.amazon.com.au/Lives-Caesars-Suetonius/dp/0241186897

Sebastian Mallaby – The Man Who Knew: The Life and Times of Alan Greenspan

https://www.amazon.com.au/Man-Who-Knew-Times-Greenspan/dp/0143111094

Mark Blaug – Economic Theory in Retrospect

https://www.amazon.com.au/Economic-Theory-Retrospect-Universiteit-Amsterdam/dp/0521577012

Cassius Dio – Roman History

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/e/roman/texts/cassius_dio/51*.html

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