Getting your message out is obviously a cornerstone of PR. But where you put that message is becoming even more important.

This week, David Yelland is joined by Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty from the BBC podcast Fame Under Fire. Together they look at the challenge for big institutions - especially the Royal Family - of cutting through.

You may think you've been successful if your story gets pick up in all the traditional places - but has anyone under-35 even seen it? They discuss the need to populate the places beyond your traditional base, to get beyond your echo chamber - and the need to interact rather than just pumping out one-way comms.

As Anoushka says, 'Do the boring thing in the most interesting way possible.'

Producer: Duncan Middleton