The Glenn Show

Heather’s deep dive into African American literature ... The impact of George Floyd on violent crime rates ... Heather: Why doesn’t the mainstream media cover the violent deaths of black children? ... The difficulty of addressing black out-of-wedlock birth rates ... Who has the moral authority to advocate for traditional family structures? ... Heather: Giuliani was one of America’s greatest mayors ... Glenn: Lowering academic standards threatens the foundation of our civilization ... Looking for Black leadership ... Was the reaction to the crack epidemic a “moral panic”? ...

This week we’ve got Heather Mac Donald on The Glenn Show. Heather is a fellow of the Manhattan Institute, a contributing editor to City Journal, and author of several books, including The Diversity Delusion, The War on Cops, and The Burden of Bad Ideas. Heather’s writing combines meticulous research and sharp, uncompromising prose. Her positions on crime and policing have led some on the left to regard her as a bit of a boogeyman. But while she is a fierce critic of failing progressive policies, she’s also a deep and surprising thinker, as you’ll see here.

We begin by exploring Heather’s recent readings in African American literature, and her reflections on the behavior of white people in this country through the mid-twentieth century. We then move into one of Heather’s area of expertise: crime and policing in American cities. She points out that those who blame rising violent crime rates on the Covid pandemic are neglecting data from other countries. The virus hit Peru, for example, much worse than it hit us, but they saw their violent crime rates drop. Why? Heather goes on to ask, if progressive activists, politicians, and media figures are so concerned with “black lives,” why do we see so little coverage of black children harmed or even killed by violent crime? You can be sure we’d hear about it if they were white. We then get into the difficult matter of family structure in black communities. Out-of-wedlock births and fatherless households are often extremely detrimental to child development. These phenomena are particularly pronounced in black communities, but they’re a problem everywhere. In fact, it’s such a problem that it seems like virtually no one has the moral authority to try to fix it. We go on to discuss the civilizational threat posed by the dissolution of academic and professional standards, the lack of responsible black leadership in the U.S., and the oft-forgotten fact that the loudest advocates for harsh drug penalties during the crack epidemic were black leaders and voters.

Hope you enjoy!

Note: When we discuss the work of my friend Alice Goffman, I mistakenly say that she attended graduate school at the University of Wisconsin. She actually went to Princeton.

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0:00 Heather’s deep dive into African American literature

14:23 The impact of George Floyd on violent crime rates

22:26 Heather: Why doesn’t the mainstream media cover the violent deaths of black children?

28:07 The difficulty of addressing black out-of-wedlock birth rates

39:44 Who has the moral authority to advocate for traditional family structures?

46:17 Heather: Giuliani was one of America’s greatest mayors

51:39 Glenn: Lowering academic standards threatens the foundation of our civilization

1:00:21 Looking for black leadership

1:08:54 Was the reaction to the crack epidemic a “moral panic”?

Links and Readings

Video of Glenn’s National Conservatism Convention keynote, “The Case for Black Patriotism”

The text of “The Case for Black Patriotism” in First Things

Gene Dattle’s Reckoning with Race: America’s Failure

Frederick Douglass’s 1852 speech, “What to the Slave Is the Fourth of July?”

Alice Goffman’s On the Run: Fugitive Life in America

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The significance of Sidney Poitier’s Caribbean origins  ... Revisiting the Lani Guinier controversy  ... How Guinier’s views eventually triumphed ... Where are the “heterodox” black women?  ... Glenn: I’m worried about the stability of our electoral process ... Are we on the precipice of violent political conflict? ... An update on John’s prodigious output ...

John McWhorter is back for our first conversation of 2022. Let’s get into it!

We begin by discussing the death of the groundbreaking black actor Sidney Poitier. Portier was best known for his roles in films like The Defiant Ones, Lilies of the Field, In the Heat of the Night, and Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner. John puts forward the fascinating theory that Poitier’s Caribbean origins and mannerisms made him acceptable to white American audiences who were unaccustomed to seeing black men in dramatic leading roles. We also recently lost the legal scholar Lani Guinier, who was involved in a political controversy in the ‘90s when Bill Clinton nominated her for Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights and then pulled the nomination after receiving political pressure from the right. Though Lani and I were on different ends of the political spectrum, she was an important legal thinker, and I think what happened to her was terribly unfair. Of course, while her views were controversial then, John and I note that they’re widely accepted now. We then go on to discuss a question it hadn’t previously occurred to me to ask: Why don’t we see more women in the ranks of heterodox black public intellectuals? (If you know of some I’m forgetting, let me know in the comments!) We then turn to the anniversary of the January 6 riot. John and I agree that it didn’t rise to the level of an “attempted coup” or an “insurrection,” but it doesn’t bode well for the stability of our elections or the country itself. Are we going to see more violence of this kind in future elections? And finally, John we do a quick review of some of John’s prodigious recent output for the New York Times and his podcast, Lexicon Valley.

It’s great to be back with John after a month-long hiatus. Let us know what you think of the conversation!

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0:00 The significance of Sidney Poitier’s Caribbean origins 

9:27 Revisiting the Lani Guinier controversy 

24:09 How Guinier’s views eventually triumphed

29:50 Where are the “heterodox” black women? 

38:36 Glenn: I’m worried about the stability of our electoral process

49:12 Are we on the precipice of violent political conflict?

1:01:04 An update on John’s prodigious output

Links and Readings

“They call me Mr. Tibbs.”

Susan Sturm and Lani Guinier, “The Future of Affirmative Action: Reclaiming the Innovative Ideal”

Abigail Thernstrom, Whose Votes Count?: Affirmative Action and Minority Voting Rights

Carol Swain, Black Faces, Black Interests: The Representation of African Americans in Congress

David Brooks’s NYT column, “Why Democrats Are So Bad at Defending Democracy”

John’s NYT newsletter post, “I Can’t Brook the Idea of Banning ‘Negro’”

John’s NYT newsletter post, “Stephen Sondheim Wrote My Life’s Soundtrack”

John’s NYT newsletter post, “Yes, the Classics Make Us Better People”

The new home of John’s language podcast, Lexicon Valley

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Bob: “There is no monolithic ‘Black Community’” ... How much anti-poverty spending actually goes to poor people? ... Recalibrating welfare’s perverse incentives ... Can community faith-based interventions scale up? ... The moral inconsistencies of progressive policy ... What should we focus on instead of race? ... How the Woodson Center is working to restore communities ... Why is there no religious dimension to current racial justice movements? ... The Glenn Show gives back ...

This week I’m honored to have the distinguished Robert Woodson on the show. Since joining the civil rights movement as an activist and organizer in the ‘60s, Bob has dedicated himself to finding solutions to the problems of poverty and dysfunction in America. Through the Woodson Center, Bob helps fund and advise programs that are on the ground and working to solve some of the toughest problems in American communities. He’s got more awards and achievements than I can possibly list here, and there’s no telling how many lives he’s changed over the years.

In this conversation, Bob and I talk about some of the problems with large-scale anti-poverty funding. Bob argues that, while big programs and studies may have their hearts in the right place, they are plagued by inefficiency and often vulnerable to misappropriation. Moreover, welfare programs can introduce perverse incentives into vulnerable communities, creating cycles of dependency that prevent recipients from achieving self-sufficiency. Bob emphasizes the importance of working with people from within those communities, especially those who use faith as a starting point for practical reform. I ask Bob how local programs like this can scale up, especially when they’re religious in nature, and he points to a heartening example in Philadelphia. Bob then takes us through some of the programs the Woodson Center is partnered with and describes the phenomenal work they do.

Finally, I announce in public something that has been in the works for a while here at TGS. Starting this year, 10 percent of The Glenn Show’s net earnings will be donated to the Woodson Center to help fund programs of the kind Bob describes. I’ll also periodically have some of the people behind those programs on as guests to talk about their work. I’m grateful for all of the success I’m having here, and it feels right to pay it forward.

This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.

0:00 Bob: “There is no monolithic ‘Black Community’”

8:27 How much anti-poverty spending actually goes to poor people?

19:35 Recalibrating welfare’s perverse incentives

25:15 Can community faith-based interventions scale up?

34:37 The moral inconsistencies of progressive policy

42:24 What should we focus on instead of race?

46:54 How the Woodson Center is working to restore communities

1:01:59 Why is there no religious dimension to current racial justice movements?

1:05:00 The Glenn Show gives back

Links and Readings

The Woodson Center

The Piney Woods School

Voices of Black Mothers United

VBMU’s Sylvia Bennett-Stone on The Glenn Show

Project H.O.O.D.

Hope for Prisoners

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

A special "thank you" from Glenn ... Race and classics ... Maintaining domestic tranquility in the face of political differences ... The "badass motherfucker" problem ... An "aria" on free will and community ... Responding to "Simone" ... Glenn: "I was wrong" about Trump ... Reflections on Obama's legacy ... Finding hope amidst wokeness ...

It’s been a big year here at The Glenn Show. So as 2021 draws to a close, I thought it would be a nice idea to round up some choice selections from the conversations I’ve had with John over the past year. This episode is a kind of “best of” compilation of segments that got a big response from viewers or that I personally thought were important or noteworthy. I couldn’t include all of the highlights, but I think these clips give a good sense of what my conversations with John were all about in 2021.

I must also offer my thanks and gratitude to everyone who read, listened, watched, and commented this year, and especially to those of you who continue to support TGS by subscribing to this newsletter. We wouldn’t be able to do it without you. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you!

I’m sure I left out things that regular viewers think were worthy of inclusion. What were some of the segments that resonated with you over the last year? What caused you to think, changed your mind, or made you laugh? Post ‘em in the comments!

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0:00 A special “thank you” from Glenn

6:23 Race and classics (June 18)

18:20 Maintaining domestic tranquility in the face of political differences (March 22)

36:06 The “badass motherfucker” problem (April 19)

46:31 An “aria” on free will and community (July 2)

51:04 Responding to “Simone” (November 19)

56:18 Glenn: “I was wrong” about Trump (January 22)

1:09:37 Reflections on Obama's legacy (October 1)

1:18:32 Finding hope amidst wokeness (November 19)

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

The latest attempt to get Amy fired from Penn Law ... Should we be worried even about elite non-Western immigration? ... Amy: “There’s nothing wrong with stereotyping” when it’s done correctly ... Glenn: America need immigrants if we’re going to compete ... Why aren’t we looking harder for technical talent in America? ... The problem with “equal representation” ... Glenn: Wokeness is a political problem that must be fought politically ... The collective action problem of “commonsense” race politics ... Is Charles Murray right to worry about white identity politics? ... Glenn: “We need to abandon the identitarian matrix altogether” ... Was European colonialism especially bad or an expression of broader human tendencies? ...

On this week’s show, I talk with Professor Amy Wax of the University of Pennsylvania Law School. As you might have guessed, we get into some very controversial territory. But that’s why I enjoy talking to Amy—she doesn’t pull her punches.

Amy begins by talking about her position at Penn Law, where a group of alumni are attempting to get her fired. It’s not the first time people have tried this—as Amy notes, she’s been “canceled” many times, but she’s still here. We move on to a discussion of immigration. While I think the U.S. has benefitted from the talent and value of non-Western immigrants and will require more of them in the future if we’re going to compete, Amy is more skeptical. She wonders whether immigrants from South Asia and East Asia have democratic sensibilities that are compatible with American culture. She worries, too, that these immigrants will adopt woke political positions. But is it necessary to look abroad for a supply of talented, technically minded people? Why can’t we find them here? Amy and I both think that would be a good idea. Amy asks me how conservatives should deal with the problem of wokeness. I tell her that we have to fight these battles as they come. We spend the last third of our conversation talking about the extremely contentious issues of white identity, European history, and colonialism.

It wouldn’t be a conversation with Amy Wax if we didn’t push every possible hot button. I’m very curious to know what you all think of the conversation. Let me know in the comments!

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0:00 The latest attempt to get Amy fired from Penn Law

5:41 Should we be worried even about elite non-Western immigration?

19:21 Amy: “There’s nothing wrong with stereotyping” when it’s done correctly

26:28 Glenn: America need immigrants if we’re going to compete

34:23 Why aren’t we looking harder for technical talent in America?

40:09 The problem with “equal representation”

47:15 Glenn: Wokeness is a political problem that must be fought politically

59:38 The collective action problem of “commonsense” race politics

1:02:36 Is Charles Murray right to worry about white identity politics?

1:18:12 Glenn: “We need to abandon the identitarian matrix altogether”

1:26:37 Was European colonialism especially bad or an expression of broader human tendencies?

Links and Readings

Glenn’s 2021 National Conservatism Conference speech, “The Case for Black Patriotism” in First Things.

A transcript of Amy’s 2019 National Conservatism Conference speech

Matt Taibbi, “The Red-Pilling of Loudoun County, Virginia”

Yuval Levin, “The Changing Face of Social Breakdown”

Michael Anton, “Unprecedented”

Adam Hochschild, King Leopold’s Ghosts: A Story of Greed, Terror, and Heroism in Colonial Africa

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe