The Glenn Show

John takes a step back from podcasting ... Confronting the critique of systemic racism ... The persistence of victimhood ... Accounting for the racial wealth gap ... Glenn: When it comes to incarceration, we have to take systemic racism seriously ... Can analyses of historical systemic racism offer us counsel today? ... John: Certain members of "the Elect" would be pleased to see an alt-right backlash ...

This week, John and I continue our discussion of systemic racism, which was kicked off when one of my students wrote a searing critique of some of my positions. John and I agreed that “Simone” (not her real name) deserved a real, intellectually serious response. We can’t just blow off Simone and people like her—that is, sober-minded, sincere, intelligent progressives and leftists who happen to think that systemic racism is responsible for all or most of America’s racial disparities. In responding to their critiques, we hope to persuade them that there are more accurate ways to describe the situation. The first part of this attempt came by way of our conversation with Randy Kennedy. This is the second entry. In our next conversation, John and I hope to move from outlining the problems to proposing some solutions.

This conversation kicks off with the revelation that demand for John has outstripped supply—he simply doesn’t have time to talk about his book Woke Racism on podcasts anymore. We then set the table a bit and outline our broad critique of theories of systemic racism. We talk about whether it still makes sense to attribute racial disparities to black people’s status as victims of perpetual injustice. Are we really victims? Or has that story gotten old? We then move on the racial wealth gap, where we debunk claims about redlining and discuss why comparing the median incomes of whites and blacks makes no sense if you want to see what’s important about wealth disparities. We then move on to a slightly trickier subject: crack and powder cocaine sentencing disparities and incarceration. This is an area where I really do think there’s probably something to accusations of systemic racism, though that is not the only issue at play. John wants to know whether academic historical analyses of systemic racism can offer any counsel to ordinary people today. We end the discussion proper on the question of a racist white backlash against the excesses of woke politics.

I think many of you will find this one quite satisfying. I’m interested to hear what you think!

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0:00 John takes a step back from podcasting

3:29 Confronting the critique of systemic racism

14:18 The persistence of victimhood

19:36 Accounting for the racial wealth gap

31:50 Glenn: When it comes to incarceration, we have to take systemic racism seriously

46:29 Can analyses of historical systemic racism offer us counsel today?

51:52 John: Certain members of "the Elect" would be pleased to see an alt-right backlash

Links and Readings

Matthew Desmond’s piece on plantation slavery from the 1619 Project

Michael Fortner’s book, The Black Silent Majority: The Rockefeller Drug Laws and the Politics of Punishment

James Forman, Jr.’s book, Locking Up Our Own: Crime and Punishment in Black America

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

“Tolstoy is mine. Dickens is mine. Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein are mine” ... “Our Americanness is much more important than our blackness” ... Conservatives cannot go back to "business as usual" on race. ... A conservative prescription for persistent racial inequality ... The roots of racial disparity ... Putting police killings of black Americans into perspective ... From white guilt to white backlash ... The “lie” that the American Dream doesn’t apply to blacks ... Black people “must seize equal status” ...

Recently, I was asked to deliver a speech at the National Conservatism Conference, which was held in Orlando, Florida. It was high-profile affair with many prominent conservative intellectuals, media figures, and politicians speaking and in attendance. And I don’t mind saying I had a prime speaking slot! I used the speech to develop some ideas I’ve aired here on TGS, and I think many of you will be gratified by the reaction they get from the crowd. But make no mistake: I’m not just telling them what they want to hear.

In the speech, I try to make the case for black patriotism, the forthright embrace of American nationalism by black people. I argue that, ultimately, most black people want the same things as most other Americans: safety, a shot at improvement, a fair and just government, and personal freedom. Black people share a common culture with the rest of the country—emphasizing racial difference obscures that essential fact. I also argue that conservatives need to go beyond making generic, color-blind claims about America and leaving it at that. Racial inequality is real, and there do need to be initiatives put it place to remedy it. I then go on to outline some “unspeakable truths” about race pertaining to four topics: racial disparity, the racialization of police violence, the threat of white backlash, and American equality. I end by engaging with Frederick Douglass, who gave a famous address about slavery and the Fourth of July. The Fourth is, indeed, “ours”—all of ours.

This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.

0:00 “Tolstoy is mine. Dickens is mine. Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein are mine”

4:13 “Our Americanness is much more important than our blackness”

7:39 Conservatives cannot go back to "business as usual" on race

9:22 A conservative prescription for persistent racial inequality

11:38 The roots of racial disparity

17:17 Putting police killings of black Americans into perspective

23:58 From white guilt to white backlash

28:10 The “lie” that the American Dream doesn’t apply to blacks

34:47 Black people “must seize equal status”

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

Randy: “I feel torn and, frankly, bewildered” about the state of race in the US ... Can we blame Trump for the tenor of racial discourse today? ... Crediting the achievements of black Americans after Emancipation ... Is the criminal justice system as discriminatory as it appears? ... Glenn: We need to deracialize the conversation about policing ... Taking account of culture in debates about racial inequality ... Affirmative action with an asterisk ... Does affirmative action require lowering standards? ...

This week’s TGS features two incomparable guests: John McWhorter and Randall Kennedy. John, of course, needs no introduction. Randy is a professor at Harvard Law School and the author of many books, the latest of which is Say It Loud!: On Race, Law, History, and Culture.

In this episode, we get into it pretty much immediately. Randy admits to being “thrown” by Donald Trump’s election and to finding his campaign openly racist. I, as you may know, think that is an oversimplified explanation of Trump’s appeal in 2016. We go on to discuss how a certain amount of racism will be with us for the foreseeable future, and we’ll just have to deal with it. Given that the situation will never be perfect, what would constitute an “acceptable” level of racism? We then go on to discuss two of the “big issues”: Policing and affirmative action. There’s a lot of intensity in this conversation, and I’m excited for you to hear it!

This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, an ad-free podcast feed, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.

0:00 Randy: “I feel torn and, frankly, bewildered” about the state of race in the US

7:17 Can we blame Trump for the tenor of racial discourse today?

17:27 Crediting the achievements of black Americans after Emancipation

25:46 Is the criminal justice system as discriminatory as it appears?

34:55 Glenn: We need to deracialize the conversation about policing

45:54 Taking account of culture in debates about racial inequality

56:49 Affirmative action with an asterisk

1:08:29 Does affirmative action require lowering standards?

Links and Readings

Randy’s new book, Say It Loud!: On Race. Law, History, and Culture

W.E.B. Du Bois’s book, The Philadelphia Negro

Glenn’s conversation with Wai Wah Chin

Glenn’s book, The Anatomy of Racial Inequality

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

A quick announcement ... "Structural racism is an empty category" ... The bias narrative vs. the development narrative ... Race as a social phenomenon ... Racism is not the cause of behavioral problems in black communities ... "White people cannot give black people equality" ... Q&A: How has economic thinking about racism and the market changed? ... Q&A: What strategies will help people engage in modes of development? ... Q&A: What are the prospects for improvements? ... Q&A: How has the language of racial discrimination changed? ... Q&A: Is intersectionality a factor in racial inequality? ... Q&A: Do Glenn's claims reinforce white prejudice against blacks? ...

I know this week everyone is expecting one of my conversations with John McWhorter. But due to some unforeseen events, we ended up shifting things around a bit. Next week you can expect to see John and I speak with Harvard Law School professor Randall Kennedy, where we’ll engage issues of systemic racism, among other topics. Two weeks after that, John and I will be back to have our own discussion about systemic racism. We said we wanted to formulate serious responses to those who believe systemic racism is still the cause of racial inequality in the US, and you can expect to see that in the coming weeks.

For this week’s episode, I’m presenting a recent lecture I gave at Baylor University and the Q&A session that followed. The lecture distills some of my ideas about social capital, the bias narrative and the development narrative, and the problems that beset urban black communities. The students and professors also offered some fantastic questions that provoked me to think about intersectionality and mass incarceration, the language of racial discrimination, and whether my critiques of the bias narrative offer aid and comfort to the enemy. I’m grateful to Baylor for having invited me, and I’m pleased to be able to offer the lecture to you here.

Note: If you’re listening to the free audio version of this conversation, you’ll notice that there are now ads. I explain why I’ve started to take on advertisers at the beginning of the episode. If you’d like to continue receiving the podcast without ads, you can subscribe below for access to the ad-free podcast feed, as well as monthly Q&As with John McWhorter and me, early access to TGS episodes, and other subscriber benefits.

0:00 A quick announcement

2:00 “Structural racism is an empty category”

4:35 The bias narrative vs. the development narrative

10:43 Race as a social phenomenon

19:10 Racism is not the cause of behavioral problems in black communities

27:41 “White people cannot give black people equality”

32:31 Q&A: How has economic thinking about racism and the market changed?

39:20 Q&A: What strategies will help people engage in modes of development?

43:00 Q&A: What are the prospects for improvements?

48:54 Q&A: How has the language of racial discrimination changed?

53:12 Q&A: Is intersectionality a factor in racial inequality?

1:02:03 Q&A: Do Glenn's claims reinforce white prejudice against blacks?

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe

What are NYC exam schools? ... The recent attempt to change exam school admissions ... Wai Wah: Changes to exam schools will discriminate against Asian students ... Wai Wah's attempts to expand the Gifted and Talented Program ... Are exam schools "segregated"? ... Eric Adams's support for increasing the number of exam schools ... Wai Wah: Asians are being scapegoated ...

In this week’s TGS, we’re talking about an issue that seems local but has big national implications. Wai Wah Chin is the Charter President of the Chinese American Citizens Alliance of Greater New York, and she joins me to discuss an ongoing controversy in New York City’s exam schools. These schools are rigorous public high schools that focus on STEM subjects, and admission is determined by student performance on a single exam. If you can excel on one test, you can get access to a free first-rate education, regardless of income, race, zip code, or even past academic performance. This is especially important in a city where top private schools often charge tens of thousands of dollars in tuition.

Historically, exam schools have been a triumph of colorblind meritocracy. They’ve brought untold numbers of talented but under-resourced students to the attention of top universities. But, as Wai Wah explains, the exam school system is currently under threat from advocates who regard the high numbers of Asian American students (over 50% in some cases) at these schools as evidence of de facto segregation that excludes blacks. Wai Wah explains why proposed changes to the exam school admissions system discriminate against Asians, and why parallel attempts to eliminate the Gifted and Talented Program for New York students will only exacerbate racial disparities in the education system. Finally, Wai Wah connects discrimination against Asians in education to the disturbing increase in violence against Asians across the country.

Wai Wah is a passionate advocate for her cause. I can tell you this is not the last time I’ll be discussing these crucial matters on TGS.

A New Home for TGS

I’ve started a new YouTube channel, and I invite you to subscribe to it (and click the bell button!) now so that you don't miss future offerings. This newsletter will continue to publish as usual with the same benefits for subscribers.

This post is free and available to the public. To receive early access to TGS episodes, Q&As, and other exclusive content and benefits, click below.

0:00 What are NYC exam schools?

5:25 The recent attempt to change exam school admissions

11:50 Wai Wah: Changes to exam schools will discriminate against Asian students

17:40 Wai Wah's attempts to expand the Gifted and Talented Program

27:26 Are exam schools "segregated"?

39:29 Eric Adams's support for increasing the number of exam schools

42:00 Wai Wah: Asians are being scapegoated

Links and Readings

The Chinese American Citizens Alliance of Greater New York

Dream Factories, a mini-doc about NYC exam schools

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit glennloury.substack.com/subscribe