Last month we caught up with Gavin McGrane, Petition Beer Corner venue manager for a chat about independence and quality. We set out to discuss the relationship between the two, what does independence look like and what does beer quality actually mean? In short, it’s a pretty meaty topic, we debate a few things and, of course, occasionally get sidetracked.

Also, a few apologies are needed for the sound. First, Pia clearly forgot she needs to slow down when she’s being recorded so speaks to her usual million miles per hour. Second, we lost a microphone about halfway through the interview so we had to improvise a solution and you may notice a bit of a drop in volume.

Before diving into the topic we started by getting to know Gav better. We find out how he got from Ireland to Petition and how he fell in love with craft beer along the way.

We then discuss quality and Gav walks us through the challenges and measures Petition Beer Corner take to ensure they are pouring great quality beer (they take it pretty damn seriously!). Then we talk about about what else quality means, the difference between the subjective quality of what beers are great and objective quality where a beer is technically well made and without fault. We also debate the merit of integrating objective quality into the Independent Brewers Association independent seal. 

The IBA describe it as a “seal of independence to help consumers easily identify what beers are locally owned by independent Australian brewers,”

IBA Media Release

We find out from Gav that independence still seems to matter to a lot of their customers and we chat through why people are so passionate about it, why some buy-outs seem to elicit a stronger and longer lasting anger than others. Then we dive into what independence means, how we each perceive it, how the IBA defines it and ask is there a difference between big companies and private equity.

Basically, we dive in, the waters get a little muddy and we hope it’s a good chat to listen to!

We debated about whether we wanted to do an episode on the 2018 GABS Hottest 100 poll results. One of us was keen, the other was lukewarm and now we have an episode!

As always, we detour off the subject a little but we chat about the poll and its relationship to brewery independence, social media, distribution and also chat about Feral Hop Hog dipping out of the top 50 but yeah, it’s mostly independence stuff, and it’s probably not as contentious as you’d think.

Here are some links to other write-ups we reference in the show: Crafty Pint’s awesome infographic, Ale of Time’s always amusing replies to selected social media comments and the Top 100 NEW beer list.

It’s our first episode back for 2019 and we put the call out for questions for a Q&A episode and DAMN! You all delivered! In fact, we couldn’t tackle them all at once so here’s part one of what could be two or three episodes!

We tackle questions around the relevance of ‘best before’ and ‘use by dates’; how we see our local beers stacking up against other countries; how we personally each manage our alcohol consumption and whether we believe you need to be a Certified Cicerone in order to have a career in the beer industry. We then get into excise and debate whether or not there’s room for more breweries in Australia given the current high pace at which new breweries are opening now.

We finish on a silly question from our mate Lex who asked, “would you rather have sheets made of American cheese or floors made of raw hamburger?” and we know you’re just itching to know our answer so be sure to listen in!

As seems to be our running theme outside of loving beer, this episode is way overdue but perhaps since we are talking about Boatrocker, we can call it a carefully aged episode!

We recorded this at Nowhereman Brewing, where Pia works, and there were a couple of unexpected deliveries so apologies in advance for the occasional sound of trolleys we were not clever enough to edit out. There’s also a low hum for the first little bit of the episode and again we just have apologies until our editing skills sharpen up or we find a quieter space to record!

Ben Lancaster, self-titled “sales guy” for Boatrocker Brewing and Hippocampus Distillery was in Perth back in September and we caught him for a chat.

Last year, Perth’s Hippocampus Distillery moved to Melbourne to join forces with Boatrocker. The new relationship has presented new and fun opportunities for the brewers and distillers. Ben remembers a batch of coffee Ramjet that was showing some green capsicum character Matt Houghton, Boatrocker co-owner and brewer, wasn’t happy with. Instead of throwing out more than a pallet of beer, they distilled it and put it into ex-Ramjet barrels. The result? Well, it’s still in progress, that’s the beauty of barrels!

The raspberry Berliner Weisse, Miss Pinky, is one of Ben’s favourite Boatrocker beers and says Melbourne restaurants are also fond of the tart and refreshing brew. Some weeks, Miss Pink outsells the Pale Ale. If you want to know Ben’s pro tip, it’s a cheeky shot of gin, Hippocampus, of course, in with your Miss Pinky, inspired by the classic gin cocktail, a Clover Club. He calls is a Turbo Pinky. Add it to your list of go-to drinks this summer!

As a Melbourne brewery, we chat about what it’s like for Boatrocker to come to Perth.

“The Nullabor is a scary place for beer,” Ben says and this is why Boatrocker insist on refrigerated transport.

We are lucky in WA in that we get to have our own Ramjet Day and our own Palate Cleanser, Ben puts this down to the “fervent following of Boatrocker in WA.”

The future of Boatocker has more barrels, Ben says a lot of their money goes towards buying barrels. That’s one reason you don’t see them having stalls at beer festivals.  

Unsurprisingly Ben speaks highly of his boss, “Matt has one of the best palates and barrel minds in Australia. His brain works in a totally different way than any of us could ever understand. Everything comes from pulling flat beer out of barrels and seeing how it will develop.”

Big thanks to Ben for taking time in his busy trip to chat with us and apologies for the significant delay in getting this episode out!

This episode we opened our doors, well, Nowhereman’s doors because we recorded this at Pia’s work, to Craig Basford from Adelaide’s Big Shed Brewing.

Actually, the full name is Big Shed Brewing Concern which is a Simpsons reference to the Osaka Seafood Concern.

“We don’t take stuff too seriously,”

“When Jason and I started this business, we were two blokes from an IT background with no commercial brewing experience, no sales experience and no hospitality experience, so we have learnt a lot of stuff from painful experience,” Craig recalled.

Almost five years on, plans are underway for a second brewery, a 30 hectolitre brewhouse and canning line, and the original kit will become an incubator site. The new brewhouse will give them a chance to keep up with the demand for their beers from coast to coast.

“I could fill my brewery with Boozy Fruit and still not get to everyone,”

Craig was in WA to visit the bars and bottle shops who are supporting him and also be a part of the Perth Craft Beer Festival.

“The people who do support us in WA, they’re fanatical, which is cool,”

Listen in to hear how the Big Shed story started, their love of the GABS and creating GABS Festival Beers, expanding into markets out of South Australia and why he loves beer.

Episode recorded at Nowhereman Brewing* 

Aaannnd, we're back! Continuing the way we started, very delayed, this episode comes a few weeks after Melbourne's Good Beer Week. We go it alone, without any guests, and turned on the microphones to chat about our Good Beer Week experiences. Somewhere along the way this leads to bigger conversations about limited release beers and tap contracts.

Starting light though, Blainey declares Stomping Ground (VIC) Milk Stout his highlight beer of Good Beer Week and they both agree Stomping Ground are one of the best spots in Melbourne.

We talk about limited release beers, the potential for fatigue and we take slightly different sides of the fence when it comes to the pros and cons around these beers on the very creative end of the spectrum. Are they good for the industry? Does quality come into question? 

"I don't know if I am becoming grumpy as I get older or things just annoy me a lot more but I've developed what I am calling - clown beer fatigue,"

Blainey

The subject of tap contracts crops up, more debate follows and, unsurprisingly, we don't reach a conclusion. In fairness, we didn't hope to but instead hope it is an interesting chat anyway. There's a surprising amount of time spent dealing with a hypothetical pub owner named Clive and we imagine how Clive might deal with a world of growing craft beer.

We wind up the episode with a couple of suggestions. Pia encourages you to ask for craft beer at the bars and shops you visit so they know you're looking for it. Blainey takes things a large step further and encourages you to ask who the bar has tap contracts with so you know what craft beers might be available to them. If you do want to take Blainey up on his suggested task, here's an article that may help you navigate these murky waters!

Thanks for listening, we'll chat soon (hopefully!)

This episode we hang out at Innate Brewers in Spearwood surrounded by their new 12 hec brew kit and speak with their head brewer Joel Nash, along with Otherside Brewing Co head brewer Rhys Lopez, about what it’s really like to start a new brewery. From designing the kit, inspecting the equipment, changing designs and just getting the tanks into the brewery to brand identity and responding to the market and what drinkers want, it's a good long chat!

Innate Brewers are production only, meaning they don’t have a venue or bar open to the public. This new kit is a significant upgrade from their “glorified home brew kit” and Joel is planning to make a lot of different beers so expect the rate of release on their single batch beers to jump significantly. On top of this, Joel’s planning an XPA as a permanent beer in their range, alongside their Pivo Pils.

“We just need to fill up the tanks,” Joel says when we ask what the plans are now he’s got a new brew kit. “And I’ll keep doing that until I’m dead,” he laughs.

Otherside Brewing will be opening the doors on their new brewpub in the next couple of weeks after gypsy brewing at number of breweries. After a few council rejections, Rhys is stoked with their space in Myaree and has a hectic brewing schedule ahead with plans for Black Vinyl and Folk Brown to return, a release of the Anthem IPA in cans and a Double IPA following a successful test run earlier. Rhys is thinking about brewing the beer they had planned for GABS that had to be cancelled due to the brewery build running behind. It was going to be a kettle sour red with rose water, raspberries and vanilla to emulate a Red Creaming Soda.

We talk a lot about equipment, stainless steel and pipework and how quickly the guys had to learn about much more than just brewing. We hear about how Rhys and Joel learnt what a “jib” is and how they are both concerned about useless millennials. Rhys puts the call out for anyone who might want spent grain from their new brewery when it’s up and running and Joel suspects he’s a better cook than a brewer, making us instantly want to go to his place for dinner.

We chat about the importance of knowing what beers you want to make and who you’re making them for. Everyone agrees that you can’t be a new brewery who makes good beer with good ingredients, that is just not enough anymore.

Don’t forget to listen right to the end where you’ll hear a snippet that was too good not to leave in.

We do a short debrief after the last episode, “Ep 6 - Social Media”, where we had chatted with Guy Southern of social media accounts, Good Times Craft Beer, and Bryce Viskovich, founder of Perth Beer Snobs.

We talk about the apprehensions we had coming into recording episode six and why and address some of the negative parts of beer and social media like drain pours and haul pics. “There’s a real risk of that type of behaviour actually having an impact on people wanting to drink decent beer,” Steve says.

MUSIC IN THE PODCAST IS:

“KEEPING STUFF TOGETHER” BY LEE ROSEVERE

FROM THE FREE MUSIC ARCHIVE

CC BY

For this episode, we sit down with Bryce Viskovich, creator of the Perth Beer Snobs Facebook group, and Guy Southern, Crafty Pint contributor and the man behind the successful Good Times Craft Beer Facebook and Instagram account.

Bryce credits an accidental discovery of the International Beer Shop six years ago, when it in its old location in West Leederville, for starting him on his craft beer journey. But it was trying Feral Tusk for the first time that led him to start Perth Beer Snobs. He wanted to create a community of like-minded beer drinkers who would share information that would lead people to discover more great beer.

Guy Southern also credits many of his early beer discoveries to the International Beer Shop but it was also a little underage drinking at Fremantle’s Sail & Anchor, enjoying Dogbolter and Redback that kicked off his craft beer journey. In 2014 he started his blog but now writes for Crafty Pint instead and uses Good Times Craft Beer on social media for a creative outlet and informative beer reviews.

We talk about the benefits of social media when it comes to finding new beers, how it’s changed the traditional purchasing decision-making process, the evolution of Perth Beer Snobs and more.

Thanks to Bryce and Guy for chatting with us and to Dutch Trading Co for letting us record at their venue.

“Obsessed and dedicated farmhouse inspired brewers that are pretty committed to making beer with a sense of place and time,” Costa Nikias, co-founder of Victoria’s La Sirène Brewing with his wife Eva.

Apologies for a few moments of less-than-ideal audio quality, you may hear the wind in the introduction and the background noise during the first interview proved to be beyond my editing capabilities!

We interviewed Costa when he was in Perth in November for WA Beer Week. We get sidetracked often from the topic of saisons and cover everything from the origins of the brewery, the Darebin Parklands from which they cultivated their own house yeast strain, how the yeast has evolved and the critical role it plays in all their beers. Costa talks passionately about a sense of place in their beers and reveals that La Sirène started as a hobby while he studied wine. We chat about their Urban Pale Ale and Saisonette and a few current projects such as one with the University of Melbourne and another that’s focused on capturing more local yeast and investigating the impact of seasonality. We speculate about the future of farmhouse beers, it’s growing popularity and consider the sheer number of barrels Costa would need if the style took over IPAs in popularity.

Apologies for the poor audio of our interview with Costa.

A few days after and heading out of the city, we find ourselves at Nowhereman Brewing* sitting amongst the tanks talking to head brewer Paul Wyman about why he joined Nowhereman, the journey of his brewing career to date, how they put the Nowhereman core range together and, of course, we chat a lot about saison.

*Full Disclosure: Pia will be working for Nowhereman as of 6 March but at the time of recording there was no affiliation

Guests

Costa Nikias from La Sirène Brewing (Alphington, VIC)

Paul Wyman from Nowhereman Brewing (West Leederville, WA)

Contact  

Find us on Facebook at The Good Beer Project and on Instagram

Blainey is on Instagram at The WA Beer Runner

Pia can be found as girlplusbeer across Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Snapchat (though she’s not good at using Snapchat) and also on her blog

Music

“Keeping Stuff Together” by Lee Rosevere

From the Free Music Archive

CC BY