The Happiest Pod on Earth

44: Ariel, Stef, and special guest Chance Calloway discuss Juneteenth, media representation, and Disney’s portrayal of Black characters. They highlight Juneteenth’s significance and embodiment of “we’re not free until we are all free.” The episode promotes authentic representations and diverse voices in future Disney projects and teaches audiences about The Transformation Trope, Projection Representation, and Black coded characters.

Summary of HPOE 44:

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Ariel Landrum: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the happiest pod on Earth.

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I’m Ariel, a licensed therapist who uses clients’ passions and fandoms to help them grow and heal from trauma and mental development.

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Stefanie Bautista: And I’m Stef. I’m an educator who uses her passions and fandoms to educate the kids that I work with.

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Chance Calloway: I’m Chance Calloway. I’m a producer, filmmaker, musician, writer, all around multi hyphenate. Creativity is my passion.

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Stefanie Bautista: And happiest pod is where we dissect Disney mediums with a

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Ariel Landrum: critical lens. Why? Because we are more than just Stef, and we expect more from the mediums we consume.

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So, see, so I have a guest today. Chance, what are we talking about?

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Chance Calloway: Today we’re talking about Juneteenth, and we’re talking about representation.

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Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Yeah. Chance, as you all know, if you’ve been following us on our podcast and also have seen us at Comic Con or WonderCon,

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Chance is 1 of our very good friends, 1 of our most talented friends, like you said, multi hyphenate.

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And, you know, I feel even when this podcast was coming to its conception, we would organically have a lot of really good

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discussions about the way we consume media and the different things that we expect from it and also want to see from it in the future.

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So I hope that today’s discussion is gonna be very enlightening for those of you aren’t familiar with Juneteenth. So, Chance, would you be

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Ariel Landrum: able to explain what exactly is Juneteenth?

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It became recently a federal holiday, but just because it wasn’t a federal holiday, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a holiday.

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Chance Calloway: Correct. Yes. Juneteenth, basically, is the embodiment of the term, we’re not free until we’re all free.

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So when, the Emancipation Proclamation was passed, some, black Americans were still enslaved.

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Some black Americans did not know that freedom had arrived.

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And on June 19th, that was the day that they did basically the final, like, enforcement, and made sure that the enslaved people were made free.

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And that’s when a lot of, people in the black community started celebrating it as a holiday.

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Ariel Landrum: I think it’s important to note because it’s hard for people to fathom not getting information immediately.

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Chance Calloway: Sure.

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Ariel Landrum: There’s an acknowledgment that we get media so quickly.

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We get news so quickly, especially, like, breaking news, reactions to it, that there isn’t this time to, like, digest and

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understand before you’ve moved on to the next thing.

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And I think that the fact that it became a holiday amongst the black community just shows, like, how important and informative it was.

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Chance Calloway: Absolutely. Suleens. Yeah. And I think, for a lot of people, there’s a a hitch that comes with thinking of American holidays,

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you know, and the American flag, things like that.

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We’ve seen you know, it’s been the media a lot because of the cover of Beyonce’s new album.

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A lot of, black Americans kind of don’t respect, like, holidays like the 4th July.

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So then when something like Juneteenth came along, that I can respect. That feels like a celebration.

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Ariel Landrum: And I think

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Stefanie Bautista: when it comes to holidays, there are diff there’s different layers of celebrating and even the word celebrating a holiday.

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Because, essentially, this is 1 of those holidays where it was a realization of something that hadn’t been realized, fully.

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When you’re talking about people celebrating the 4th July, they normally talk about barbecues and doing fun stuff and not,

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you know, the actual reason for the holiday.

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This is 1 of those holidays that kind of wakes us up to the different ways we celebrate and the different ways we honor certain

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people, especially when we’re talking about, honoring everyone equal.

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And, like, celebrating it with a purpose and not just celebrating to sell.

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Chance Calloway: And that that’s a really great point, Steph, because there’s a lot of holidays that, you know, have lost the meaning behind them for various reasons. Yeah.

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And people feel different ways depending on the holiday. But Yeah.

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Think about the majority of the holidays that we celebrate, it’s more because it’s a day off. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

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And there’s some aesthetic theme around it that we like.

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And we we celebrate Christmas or don’t even follow, like, the religion that Christmas is based on.

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So, like, holidays become other things that, you know, whereas Juneteenth is still very resonant for the reason that it exists.

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Stefanie Bautista: I’m coming from a standpoint where at school, that is your first foray into celebrating holidays and doing themed activities. Mhmm.

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And I think the way that I’ve been experiencing it in the school culture that I’m currently in, which is very diversity, equity,

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inclusion, and belonging based, we really take a deeper dive into what exactly are we celebrating or why exactly do we have that date.

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And if, you know, that means taking a little bit more time and not just doing the hand turkey or doing, you know, the snowman.

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I mean, that’s okay because we would rather have the kids have a bigger and full understanding of the holiday or the day off.

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Ariel Landrum: I know that there are some traditions that have come about for the black community in celebrating Juneteenth, including colors

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that you can wear and things that you could eat.

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Would you be able to share for audience what that is, or what you did?

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Chance Calloway: Sure. I mean, I I always celebrate many holidays just by nature of my bachelor. The

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Stefanie Bautista: Every day’s a holiday. Okay. You know,

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Chance Calloway: there are some Juneteenth cotillions, you know, which are which are very popular.

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A lot of people like to do the, the kinda Afrocentric colors of the red, green, and black.

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You know, some people have flags that are in those colors.

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I wanna get 1 myself, he got out my window.

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But, honestly, you know, when you talk about, you know, all your advice to the cookout, Juneteenth is a great time to have a cookout because it’s summertime.

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Cookouts are probably the most common ways to celebrate Juneteenth since it hasn’t always been a federal holiday, not everyone always got it off.

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So I don’t think a lot of families, you know, unless you lived in a community where it was celebrated, I don’t think it was something I knew about growing up. We never celebrated it.

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Stefanie Bautista: Interesting. I’m curious to know since it wasn’t a funeral holiday since recently, were there, like, adjacent weekends that

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you would take to honor during that week, or would you just, like, be more mindful? Yeah.

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Chance Calloway: It was more just being being mindful Okay. For sure. Yeah.

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Because, you know, it it was 1 of those things where if you’re trying to get together with the family, it was like, before

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the July is coming up, March is just something again.

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I think that’s another sign of why it is important for some things to get officially recognized. Yes.

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Because now that it’s federal holiday, people can plan around it, make time for it, make space.

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Stefanie Bautista: I love that.

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Ariel Landrum: My stepmom, how she celebrates Juneteenth is they go to church. Like, there’ll be church celebrations.

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And that, was, like, the only spaces where you would openly talk about, and it was to praise that you got the news, that you were delivered, that you were free. Both. Yes. Yeah.

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And it was it was interesting because now that it’s a federal holiday, it’s it has her reorganizing.

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You know, my grandbaby is out of school, like, has the day off, will be able to, like, do something with me.

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It was a talked about thing around the church, but wasn’t a talked about thing, like, in the if that makes sense.

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Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s even a bigger realization that because us working folks are people who are in that socioeconomic background of working all the time.

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If they don’t have a day off to do something, they will most likely not pay attention to it because everything is so work

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centered and everything, you know, pretty much goes off of what your schedule is to be able to make a living.

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And I think having Juneteenth off is so important because, like you said, all of these other thoughts and all of this other

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planning just comes because they you know, I have

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Ariel Landrum: a day off to myself, for my family, for people of my heritage.

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It’s been federally recognized, and something comes from recognition.

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And then looking at, like, recognition, this is a Disney pun.

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So I’m wondering for you when you think of, representation and black recognition, like, who comes up for you? Or what shows or TV?

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Chance Calloway: Brittany can be number 1. It’s always gonna be the only Cinderella that matters to me, which is the Brandy Cinderella.

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You know, also, you know, shout out to the late Whitney Houston, who’s the very godmother and the late Natalie Patel who was, you know, 1 of the stepsisters.

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That to me was, like, peak Disney. I mean, the world stopped.

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Evan was watching the wonderful world of Disney on ABC that night because, you know, Whitney Houston, Randy White, and Cinderella.

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That to me is the ultimate Disney representation still to this day.

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Stefanie Bautista: I love that. I know me and Chance have connected so many times, maybe countless times, over the impact of that particular

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Cinderella and how important it was to see diversity on, the wonderful world of Disney, which is something that everybody stopped to watch back then.

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Ariel Landrum: Fun. For us, the prince is Filipino.

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Stefanie Bautista: I was just gonna say that.

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Chance Calloway: Voice. Yeah. God, I Yeah.

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Ariel Landrum: I think, the interesting thing too is that that Cinderella is so loved. Brandy has been asked back.

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Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. It’s Yeah. She is reprising her role as Cinderella in Descendants, The Rise of Red, which I think at this point has not come out yet. It has not come out yet.

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But Descendants, if, some of you listeners don’t know, all of Disney Princesses basically are mummies, and they have kids,

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and, they are all together in this series, and it has been huge.

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Even when we went to Disney Channel Night Yeah.

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A lot of people dressed up as descendants characters. Yeah.

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Even though we we thought it was 90 centric.

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Did we see a Brandy Cinderella there?

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Ariel Landrum: We’re a see No. I saw a lot of Neil Thermopolis. Rinaldi from Genovia. Yeah.

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Chance Calloway: Yeah. As long as

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Stefanie Bautista: his desire. Which? By Whitney Houston. Yes. No.

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I was just reminded of that on my reels, and I was just like, ugh, yes. Yes. Fed my soul.

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Chance Calloway: Whitney used to get, like, a, a posthumous, Disney Legend Award.

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Stefanie Bautista: Whitney Houston, huge driving force in actually many Disney things that did not that

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Chance Calloway: she did girls that she did girls too. Yes. At least yeah.

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Stefanie Bautista: It’s really funny because the reel that I saw was her talking to Howie and Kevin from the Backstreet Boys because they were

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on a video for the song from Princess Diaries. The song was called Supergirl.

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Chance Calloway: There’s a really big video of, Eric Von Detten. Right? He’s in the Princess Diaries. Mhmm.

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Going up to Whitney Houston, like, to introduce himself, and Bobby Brown be like, I’m Bobby Brown. I’m Bobby Brown. It’s all quality. It’s so funny. Yeah. Ready? Cinderella definitely was huge for me.

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Interesting thing that we bring up the Apollo situation because as much as I adore him and I would not change anything by

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his performance of, you know, him being that film, Disney has not yet given us a black male glory. Yeah. Yeah.

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And that bothers me to this day.

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Ariel Landrum: Yes. Because Naveen is brown. Right. He’s a brown person. Yeah.

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Naveen from From a a made up place, so we can’t even From person the frog.

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Chance Calloway: Voiced by Brazilian

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Ariel Landrum: Yes. Yes.

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Chance Calloway: Even with the live action, Little Mermaid last year, that only, you know, was Prince Eric not black, which, again, I don’t have a problem with that.

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But then Chitin also was not black, played by a Spanish actor. Mhmm.

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So I I would love to see a Disney royal male, you know?

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Even Prince Eric didn’t have a black he had a black mom, but, like, he didn’t have it now. That’s, like Yep.

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You guys are doing everything you can to not put a black man in the crown. I’m on Disney.

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You know, Whoopi Goldberg, also was in, you know, Cinderella.

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So shout out to Whoopi Goldberg, but also her prince was Victor Garber, who was not black.

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Again, I didn’t no problem with with Victor Garber, but just, you know, as a kid as a kid, especially a gay black kid, yes,

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I wouldn’t be wearing purple and wearing a crown too.

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So, you know, it I started noticing.

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I was like, where’s where’s this these black, you know, prince or king? And Right. Yeah. Still waiting.

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Stefanie Bautista: I think the closest we get to that is Black Panther.

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That’s Closest we have to a black king Yeah.

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Who comes from lineage that is royal. However, that was a Marvel concept. Yeah. It wasn’t initially a Disney concept.

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Ariel Landrum: And what had already been established, right, in comics and lore versus, like, when we’re trying to make up a whole new character

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for for T’Challa, him living in Africa being African was essential to who he was.

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Like, we can’t change the the, phenotype of that character, and it may exactly.

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Chance Calloway: Right. And that was also I always forget that Marvel is now under the Disney umbrella, but, like, yeah. Black Panther. That was definitely an experience.

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Stefanie Bautista: So let me ask. I know we talk a lot about black representation and the different ways that it shows up in Disney movies.

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We talked about princess and the frog where essentially Tiana and Naveen.

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Tiana really turns into a frog for most of the movie.

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Now we have just experienced a little resurgence of the Lion King because it is celebrating its anniversary, and they just

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had a Hollywood Bowl performance that people are talking about.

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And when I think about Mufasa, who was voiced by James Earl Jones, that is a very powerful character to mute.

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However, it was masked by not seeing James Earl Jones, and he was Darth Vader, which you did not see his face.

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Ariel Landrum: And when he got unmasked Yeah. Jeff really was that James.

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Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Definitely not James Earl Jones. Right.

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Do you think he could have been represented a little bit better?

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Chance Calloway: I think the the James Earl Jones thing is an interesting case because both James Earl Jones and Madge Sinclair played king and queen in Coming to America.

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Stefanie Bautista: Mhmm.

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Chance Calloway: So it almost kind of felt like shout out type of casting, and James j Jones has such an iconic voice.

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There are very few things about The Lion King that I would change. Mhmm. I wouldn’t film Mufasa. That’s enough.

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Ariel Landrum: That’s not a little pic that’s staging. Like, that

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Stefanie Bautista: is the that’s literally the plot 0,

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Chance Calloway: no. But, I feel like if Disney had done its due diligence and had more representation for people who essentially were not

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white, The Lion King wouldn’t feel so, you know, in that way, you know, because it’s like, okay. Period.

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It’s set in Africa a lot, not all, but a lot of, you know, black voice actors.

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But every character on screen is an animal.

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So enjoyable film and, of course, do that project projection representation, which is, you know, you do that a lot when you don’t have enough of it.

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But, yeah, I feel like Y King was great.

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Would have been great if they had followed that up a lot sooner with the Black Princess movie.

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Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Would you say the Broadway production kind of does what what should have been for that that because the production is very dive

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Chance Calloway: Yeah. Okay. That’s that’s a really great that’s a really great question. I have complicated feelings about that.

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Stefanie Bautista: Why not? I saw I’ve seen the Broadway performance on Broadway, actually, as a kid, and then I’ve seen iterations of it because they have it at Disney World.

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And aside from some of the dancers, it is a mainly it is an all black cast. Yeah. It’s beautifully done.

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Chance Calloway: But they and they they’ve employed so many black actors, you know, because of that production.

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Though interestingly, the first symbol was Jason Rae’s who was adopted, and you don’t know what his background was.

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So there’s no telling if he was actually, you know, a black actor.

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Stefanie Bautista: Is this the original Broadway film?

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Chance Calloway: The original Broadway film. Yeah. Maheep’s Jason Reinschaun ran away.

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I’m surprised that we’re talking about it at all.

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I I still feel like the Broadway show, the production, even though you have black actors, is still being told a story about animals. You know?

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So, like, again, I don’t begrudge the fact that it’s employing a lot of black actors.

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But for me, it’s, like, still not represent representation. You know why?

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Because the director, Julie Taymor, is not black.

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Songwriters, Tim Rice, Ellen Joc, they’re not black. Alipo Lim, of course, is black. Right?

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So so there is there is that touch there.

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But for me, you know, the strip writers were not black.

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So that’s the complicated part about representation.

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To have Matt Damon tell it, it only matters if you have representation in front of the camera, but that’s not true.

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Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah.

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Chance Calloway: So that’s why I said it’s a complicated question.

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Do you think there’s a type of representation to be found in The Lion King?

00:16:02,334 –> 00:16:04,320
But I think there are better options now.

00:16:04,560 –> 00:16:04,800
Stefanie Bautista: I I

00:16:04,800 –> 00:16:10,100
Ariel Landrum: think you are bringing up a a crucial point because I think that’s what made Black Panther successful.

00:16:10,240 –> 00:16:10,640
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:16:10,640 –> 00:16:15,365
Ariel Landrum: When both people behind and in front of the camera were telling the story of a black perspective.

00:16:15,585 –> 00:16:16,085
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:16:16,145 –> 00:16:25,450
Ariel Landrum: Even though the character was created by, I believe, Stan Lee, who was AAA white man, it got taken on further by the black community, and they told the story.

00:16:25,510 –> 00:16:30,070
Correct me if I’m wrong, audience, but I I do believe I have my comic lore on point.

00:16:30,070 –> 00:16:32,070
Chance Calloway: It’s good. Maybe Stan Lee co created. But Yeah.

00:16:32,070 –> 00:16:36,214
Stefanie Bautista: Ariel, you are right. It was created or Black Panther was created by Stanley and Jack.

00:16:36,214 –> 00:16:37,915
Chance Calloway: And Jack Kirby. And Kirby.

00:16:37,975 –> 00:16:41,514
Ariel Landrum: Thank you. Thank you. Wait. I just wanted to mention Moon Girl.

00:16:41,700 –> 00:16:45,000
Chance Calloway: Moon Girl and Deviled Animus dinosaur. Yes. And Miles Morales.

00:16:45,140 –> 00:16:47,380
Ariel Landrum: Yes. Morales. Yeah. Yes. K. Yes.

00:16:47,380 –> 00:16:50,120
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful characters. They Yes. Marvel.

00:16:50,435 –> 00:16:55,575
Ariel Landrum: Marvel. Marvel once again. Like, we don’t have a black Miles Morales in Disney yet.

00:16:55,715 –> 00:17:00,990
We have Donald Glover as the prowler, and he mentions that he has a nephew.

00:17:01,130 –> 00:17:07,870
And we have Jamie Foxx, and he mentions there must be a black Spider Man somewhere. Those have been the droplets we’ve

00:17:08,054 –> 00:17:10,215
Chance Calloway: Yes. Yep. The Moongirl Devil Dinosaur. Yeah.

00:17:10,215 –> 00:17:11,174
Stefanie Bautista: We’re getting very much

00:17:11,335 –> 00:17:12,155
Chance Calloway: great soundtrack.

00:17:12,294 –> 00:17:17,890
Ariel Landrum: And I think if you watch the, kids’ Marvel movies, there’s, like, Spider Man and Friends.

00:17:18,110 –> 00:17:21,470
Stefanie Bautista: Oh, yeah. And his amazing friends? Yeah. Yep. Miles Miles is in there. Yep.

00:17:21,470 –> 00:17:22,350
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Okay?

00:17:22,350 –> 00:17:23,550
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Okay. See, I think

00:17:23,710 –> 00:17:24,030
Ariel Landrum: Cute.

00:17:24,030 –> 00:17:26,005
Stefanie Bautista: Very cute. But, yeah, all good mentions.

00:17:26,225 –> 00:17:27,524
Chance Calloway: Storm x men 97?

00:17:27,825 –> 00:17:28,678
Stefanie Bautista: Yes. We are

00:17:28,784 –> 00:17:32,385
Ariel Landrum: talking nonstop about x men. We’ve completely forgot about a star.

00:17:32,385 –> 00:17:37,279
Chance Calloway: For me, there’s still a complete delineation in my brain between Marvel and Disney.

00:17:37,419 –> 00:17:40,940
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. You know? It’s fine because I think that’s just how our brains work.

00:17:40,940 –> 00:17:41,179
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:17:41,179 –> 00:17:44,554
Stefanie Bautista: And we can’t like, the conglomerate is conglomerating. Yeah. Right.

00:17:44,554 –> 00:17:49,675
And it shouldn’t be that way Yeah. Sometimes. But, yeah. Aurora, a queen, a queen. Yeah.

00:17:49,675 –> 00:17:51,775
But she is definitely a royal man.

00:17:52,075 –> 00:17:53,010
Chance Calloway: Level mute.

00:17:53,330 –> 00:17:54,690
Stefanie Bautista: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That’s true.

00:17:54,690 –> 00:17:58,790
Ariel Landrum: And then we have, very powerful character in, Marvel.

00:17:59,010 –> 00:17:59,650
Chance Calloway: Nick Fury.

00:17:59,650 –> 00:18:02,870
Ariel Landrum: Yes. Nick Fury. Nick Fury, but he’s always had an eye patch.

00:18:03,075 –> 00:18:04,835
Chance Calloway: True. True. True. Yeah.

00:18:04,835 –> 00:18:07,155
Stefanie Bautista: But he’s the orchestrator though, so he’s the guy behind.

00:18:07,155 –> 00:18:09,875
Chance Calloway: He’s the guy that created yeah. Put the Avengers together.

00:18:09,875 –> 00:18:15,309
Ariel Landrum: And then we are gonna have is it Fast who’s, from Ms. Marvel? Photon? Yeah. Photon.

00:18:15,309 –> 00:18:17,630
Chance Calloway: Photon. Tiana Paris, amazing actress.

00:18:17,630 –> 00:18:18,270
Stefanie Bautista: Yes. Yeah.

00:18:18,270 –> 00:18:19,250
Chance Calloway: Amazing actress.

00:18:19,575 –> 00:18:21,355
Ariel Landrum: We we talked a little bit about Warrable.

00:18:21,414 –> 00:18:25,115
We talked about Lion King, even in the concept of, Broadway.

00:18:25,174 –> 00:18:29,799
And I know that there is a lot of viral stuff happening with the Hollywood Bowl situation.

00:18:29,940 –> 00:18:32,840
I’m not touching that, because I don’t think it’s appropriate.

00:18:33,380 –> 00:18:35,960
I’m actually gonna honor the fact that Jason Weaver

00:18:36,605 –> 00:18:42,445
Stefanie Bautista: sang, and I thought that was beautiful because, I know Chance knows a little probably a little bit more about the story, but

00:18:42,445 –> 00:18:47,940
it was very interesting how they approached his family in compensating him for the Lion King. Right?

00:18:48,000 –> 00:18:50,419
Because he was this voice of Simba.

00:18:51,200 –> 00:19:00,915
The recording of I just can’t wait to be king was so big that, obviously, Disney was gonna pay a lot of money to him, but in 1 of 2 ways.

00:19:01,055 –> 00:19:04,755
And 1 of it was through royalties, and 1 of it was through a lump sum.

00:19:04,840 –> 00:19:09,820
Chance Calloway: I I watched the, interview with him, like, last year. Yeah. Yeah. I remember him talking about it.

00:19:09,880 –> 00:19:12,645
I remember the baseline being he’s taken care.

00:19:12,805 –> 00:19:16,425
Stefanie Bautista: Long story short, I know you guys can probably, like, look this up on Wikipedia.

00:19:16,805 –> 00:19:21,945
Mom was savvy enough to say, we are not gonna take the lump sum. I want to take the royalties.

00:19:22,289 –> 00:19:28,450
And he has made so much more through the royalties rather than the lump sum because at the time, of course, you know, a big

00:19:28,450 –> 00:19:31,625
chunk of money is gonna look very appealing. Yes.

00:19:31,625 –> 00:19:33,965
But mom thought forward and was like, no.

00:19:34,024 –> 00:19:39,085
We are gonna get paid for the rest of eternity because this song is gonna live forever.

00:19:39,409 –> 00:19:41,730
And, yeah, he’s been duly compensated for that.

00:19:41,730 –> 00:19:48,149
And I think that’s, you know, 1 of the really nice moments, but at the same time, mom had to be savvy enough to think that far ahead.

00:19:48,335 –> 00:19:50,495
And, you know, way to go mama bear for doing that.

00:19:50,495 –> 00:19:57,110
Chance Calloway: Oh, and for the Disney fans, I mean, Jason Bieber probably on screen is best known as the older brother and smart guy. Yep. You know?

00:19:57,190 –> 00:19:59,910
So and that that was a decision all the time when I was a kid.

00:19:59,910 –> 00:20:04,890
Stefanie Bautista: All the time. Yeah. Fun fact, I actually took my SATs in the same room as Taj Mahri

00:20:06,465 –> 00:20:06,965
Ariel Landrum: Randall.

00:20:07,184 –> 00:20:13,445
Stefanie Bautista: And it was, like, a joke between me and a friend of mine who were taking the SATs was, like, I bet the smart guy is gonna pass.

00:20:13,870 –> 00:20:19,550
Chance Calloway: I have such an artistic crush, and I have to be specific about that because I also normally have crushes.

00:20:19,550 –> 00:20:21,725
But I have such an artistic crush on Taj Morrie.

00:20:21,725 –> 00:20:25,164
He’s 1 of our most underrated comedian. He is so funny.

00:20:25,164 –> 00:20:26,705
The way he can spin a line.

00:20:26,765 –> 00:20:33,190
He’s also gonna be a tap dancer, a a wonderful singer. I adore Taj Mahry. Adore, adore, adore, adore, adore, adore.

00:20:33,330 –> 00:20:35,330
So I can’t believe that you were in a room with them.

00:20:35,330 –> 00:20:40,955
Ariel Landrum: That’s TV. Talking about representation, we have sort of touched on it.

00:20:41,275 –> 00:20:45,195
We looked it up, and the term seems to be called a transformation trope.

00:20:45,195 –> 00:20:47,915
So would you be willing to explain to the audience what exactly that

00:20:48,075 –> 00:20:55,820
Chance Calloway: A transformation trope, while it has a lot of, I guess, sub tropes, essentially, it is when a protagonist is turned into some

00:20:55,820 –> 00:21:03,095
other type of creature, which is particularly common in certain Disney animated films where the protagonists usually I think

00:21:03,095 –> 00:21:09,880
maybe all are protagonists of color who are then turned into an animal for the main duration of the film.

00:21:10,340 –> 00:21:15,085
So we saw that probably most notably in, The Princess and the Frog.

00:21:15,705 –> 00:21:19,725
So Brother Bear, what’s the what, Emperor’s new Groot, Cousteau.

00:21:20,345 –> 00:21:27,170
Sol may be angry in the fact that it felt like a subversion at first because at first, he wasn’t, you know, an animal, but

00:21:27,170 –> 00:21:29,650
then he put him in animal, and that’s when I got mad.

00:21:29,650 –> 00:21:39,865
Seems to happen disproportionately at least to, protagonist of color, almost as if they are not allowed to carry the majority of the movie looking like themself.

00:21:40,085 –> 00:21:45,880
Ariel Landrum: We are looking up, like, just the history, the transformation trope, and it was started off in the horror genre.

00:21:46,580 –> 00:21:49,800
You know, this monster needing to transform into a human.

00:21:49,985 –> 00:21:58,120
And we see that with, like, Beauty and the Beast, but we’re always painted the idea of empathy towards the beat. Right?

00:21:58,120 –> 00:22:01,020
This is a curse that it shouldn’t have happened.

00:22:01,720 –> 00:22:08,845
When we’re following these narratives, like, with Tiana, yes, she’s really fighting to not be a frog and trying to find ways,

00:22:08,905 –> 00:22:14,160
but the empathy we have towards her plight isn’t the fact that she turned into a frog.

00:22:14,320 –> 00:22:18,100
It’s the fact that she’s not able to open up her restaurant.

00:22:18,560 –> 00:22:24,335
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I don’t think there was ever any concern plot wise that, like, Tiana’s gonna stay up for all.

00:22:24,335 –> 00:22:27,855
Like, that never seems to be Yeah. Her jiving concern. You know?

00:22:27,855 –> 00:22:29,210
So I think I think you’re right about that.

00:22:29,210 –> 00:22:34,489
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Because there was a, with Beauty and the Beast, like, it was like the roses running her. Right? She accepted being a frog.

00:22:34,489 –> 00:22:38,923
Like, the end of it was she was just gonna live in the bean in the in the bayou in the

00:22:38,923 –> 00:22:44,115
Chance Calloway: bayou. The most disrespectful thing that they did with Tiana was have Randy Newman write that soundtrack. Yeah.

00:22:46,335 –> 00:22:52,190
This feels on 2 levels. 1, Randy Newman was definitely like a Pixar kind of guy, you know.

00:22:52,250 –> 00:22:57,130
Whenever you would get a Disney princess film, you had on Make It of Stefanie Schwartz.

00:22:57,130 –> 00:23:02,965
There was a specific sound that you wanted, and they hyped up Princess and the Frog as we just turned to 2 d animation Yeah.

00:23:03,125 –> 00:23:07,380
A return to, like, you know, the Musicals. Yes. The musical aspect of it.

00:23:07,540 –> 00:23:11,060
Then it being Randy Newman, it hit your ear completely differently

00:23:11,220 –> 00:23:11,620
Ariel Landrum: Yeah.

00:23:11,700 –> 00:23:15,780
Chance Calloway: Than the other Disney Princess songs. Even Enchanted, which I think came out the year before Yeah.

00:23:15,940 –> 00:23:20,825
Had a very old school kind of feel while also feeling new and fresh.

00:23:21,525 –> 00:23:29,429
And I just feel like like Almost There is 1 of the most, mundane I watch songs that Disney is ever in my opinion.

00:23:29,429 –> 00:23:36,745
Stefanie Bautista: I mean, we love Randy Newman for other things, but I think Chance does have a point where if you’re evoking emotion, especially

00:23:36,745 –> 00:23:39,105
from a princess who is wanting something Yeah.

00:23:39,305 –> 00:23:45,240
There has to be, you know and the playing field has already been set because of the princesses that came before.

00:23:45,240 –> 00:23:45,720
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:23:45,720 –> 00:23:53,245
Stefanie Bautista: And I think, you know, as as much as maybe during the time that maybe he was just available or because of the success of Pixar,

00:23:53,385 –> 00:23:59,970
Toy Story, and all, you know, the like, who knows what the decision making could have been, but I think emotion wise, I I

00:23:59,970 –> 00:24:03,490
would have to agree with Chance because almost there’s a cute song. Yeah.

00:24:03,490 –> 00:24:09,525
I like it, but is it on the level of, you know, what’s another part of your world Yeah.

00:24:09,725 –> 00:24:13,105
With a big crescendo with, you know, a voice to match?

00:24:13,245 –> 00:24:15,905
I don’t think that that’s 1 of the songs that I immediately

00:24:15,980 –> 00:24:18,059
Chance Calloway: see. As we know, Anika Noni Rose could sing it.

00:24:18,059 –> 00:24:18,799
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Absolutely.

00:24:18,860 –> 00:24:23,580
Chance Calloway: You know? Yeah. So I will say though, Friends on the Other Side is a top tier villain song.

00:24:23,580 –> 00:24:24,299
Stefanie Bautista: Oh, yeah.

00:24:24,299 –> 00:24:27,865
Chance Calloway: So Yeah. Maybe I should take back everything I said about Randy Newman.

00:24:28,885 –> 00:24:30,165
Ariel Landrum: Or maybe he can only write villains.

00:24:30,165 –> 00:24:32,025
Chance Calloway: Or maybe he can only write villains. Yeah.

00:24:32,405 –> 00:24:37,670
Ariel Landrum: Now I’m not a black woman, and, you aren’t a black woman, but maybe you could talk a little bit about this.

00:24:37,730 –> 00:24:46,465
My friends who are black women have said their problem with Tiana is that, she had a really big dream, but here was our first

00:24:46,465 –> 00:24:49,410
black princess, and she has to work.

00:24:49,490 –> 00:24:49,810
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:24:49,810 –> 00:24:53,270
Ariel Landrum: And the only way she can be successful is if she works.

00:24:53,650 –> 00:24:59,110
And that that, continues to feed this trope that black women don’t get to have her ask her time off.

00:24:59,475 –> 00:25:07,250
Chance Calloway: Yes. So many, if not all of the previous Disney princesses, specifically the ones that are legitimately, like, marrying into

00:25:07,250 –> 00:25:10,450
royalty or whatever, their finale is a wedding. Yeah.

00:25:10,450 –> 00:25:14,630
And Tiana is is me and my prince are now running this rest.

00:25:15,465 –> 00:25:22,370
And while, yes, they just spent an hour and a half telling us that this was her dream, it’s kinda like, she can’t just be a princess. Mhmm. You know?

00:25:22,370 –> 00:25:23,650
She has to make a broke prince.

00:25:23,650 –> 00:25:24,789
Ariel Landrum: Yes. A broke prince.

00:25:25,010 –> 00:25:29,010
Chance Calloway: Yeah. And, again, that’s what happens when you have limited representation. Yeah.

00:25:29,010 –> 00:25:37,015
If there were multiple black Disney princesses, we wouldn’t be so nitpicky about about 1 specific 1 because there would be

00:25:37,015 –> 00:25:40,215
other, storylines, other personalities, those kind of things.

00:25:40,215 –> 00:25:44,549
But right now, even I think right now, there’s still just Tiana. We’re talking about animation wise.

00:25:44,549 –> 00:25:49,965
We still got we’ve got multiple white princesses since Tiana, and we still only have Tiana.

00:25:50,265 –> 00:25:57,840
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Unless you are decide to bring in, like, Maribel and you have Shuri, like, there are no other n. Correct us if we’re wrong.

00:25:57,840 –> 00:26:03,200
Now there will be a Ariel Junior animated series. Oh.

00:26:03,200 –> 00:26:06,725
And, it’s, I guess, you’d say, like, baby toddler Ariel.

00:26:06,725 –> 00:26:10,645
And, it’s coming on Disney plus, and that is, like, digital animation.

00:26:10,645 –> 00:26:12,790
So it’s like animation, but also looks 3 d.

00:26:12,950 –> 00:26:18,550
And she is a black Ariel, but I’m unsure if she is supposed to be younger version of live action Ariel

00:26:18,790 –> 00:26:19,030
Chance Calloway: Right.

00:26:19,110 –> 00:26:21,850
Ariel Landrum: Or just happens to be. Yeah. Right. But hasn’t come out yet.

00:26:21,985 –> 00:26:24,705
Stefanie Bautista: But then also still that’s not a completely original

00:26:25,185 –> 00:26:25,385
Chance Calloway: Right.

00:26:25,585 –> 00:26:27,685
Ariel Landrum: Area. And is not a movie.

00:26:27,745 –> 00:26:28,945
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. And not a movie.

00:26:28,945 –> 00:26:37,510
Chance Calloway: Yeah. And, you know, Disney execs, if you guys are listening to this podcast, I would highly suggest maybe adapting Mufaro’s Beautiful Daughters by John Steptoe.

00:26:38,050 –> 00:26:46,335
Beautiful story, very popular with whole generation thanks to reading Rainbow, you know, and and and ripe for adaptation. Right for adaptation.

00:26:46,555 –> 00:26:54,040
There, Mufara’s Beautiful Daughters is about, a man who lives in a village, and the, the, the king is looking for a wife.

00:26:54,500 –> 00:27:00,285
And so he’s got his 2 daughters who he loves equally, but, of course, 1 is just so mean and so nice. Cool.

00:27:00,745 –> 00:27:02,425
So she sets out on her own.

00:27:02,665 –> 00:27:04,285
The sisters are supposed to go together.

00:27:04,425 –> 00:27:10,600
She sets out on her own, to go, meet the king because she’s sure that she’s gonna be, you know, the next queen.

00:27:10,600 –> 00:27:14,280
Then, Bufaro’s other daughter sets off when she was supposed to later.

00:27:14,280 –> 00:27:17,765
And they basically have 2 very different, trips.

00:27:17,904 –> 00:27:21,345
They encounter the same, people and obstacles Uh-huh.

00:27:21,424 –> 00:27:26,230
But their personalities change how, you know, how easy their trips are.

00:27:26,230 –> 00:27:27,750
And it has such a wonderful ending.

00:27:27,750 –> 00:27:32,395
It’s a great story, and I’ve been wondering why it hasn’t been adapted before.

00:27:32,395 –> 00:27:35,595
But I I think it would be an amazing Disney animated cartoon.

00:27:35,595 –> 00:27:42,320
The Rider of the Last Dragon, when that film came out, it was kind of like a relief because now Mulan no longer had to carry the burdens

00:27:43,020 –> 00:27:43,179
Stefanie Bautista: of

00:27:43,179 –> 00:27:48,080
Chance Calloway: being, you know, like, only Princess. And it’s kinda like, yeah, we just need we need more of that.

00:27:48,299 –> 00:27:57,155
Stefanie Bautista: I’m wanting to see a little bit more 3 d animated first, like, part of Disney because, Frozen, Moana, they’re all in that kind of realm.

00:27:57,215 –> 00:28:00,760
I wonder if they’re gonna go that way with A Black Princess.

00:28:00,820 –> 00:28:03,060
I think that would this is the time. I mean Yeah.

00:28:03,220 –> 00:28:07,140
We’ve done many things now that are not animated, but 3 d animated.

00:28:07,140 –> 00:28:10,235
And I think, you know, this would be the perfect time to do something for them.

00:28:10,235 –> 00:28:16,955
Chance Calloway: Yes. Also, I mean, again, shout out to Nika Noni Rose who voiced Princess Tiana when they were adapting all the princesses

00:28:16,955 –> 00:28:19,630
for their scenes in, record number 2 Yep.

00:28:19,750 –> 00:28:25,350
Anika spoke with the animators about how to make sure that they didn’t whitewash Tiana.

00:28:25,350 –> 00:28:33,164
Because the initial images remember there was a whole controversy that Tiana just looked a lot a light lighter skin. Her nose was smaller. And so Anika Hair.

00:28:33,164 –> 00:28:35,360
And her hair was a different texture. Yes.

00:28:35,440 –> 00:28:37,720
And so Anika, like, worked with them to make sure that Yeah.

00:28:37,840 –> 00:28:42,640
You know, Tiana maintained the same blackness that she had in her own film. Yeah.

00:28:42,640 –> 00:28:48,865
And I think that’s admirable, and that’s not something that probably would have been possible even, like, 2 decades ago. Yeah. Definitely.

00:28:49,005 –> 00:28:52,820
Ariel Landrum: And and Stef and I have talked about in, like, the evolution of the Disney princess.

00:28:52,820 –> 00:28:56,280
Like, Anika made sure that Tiana was left handed like her.

00:28:56,340 –> 00:28:59,765
Like, that was an intentional thing that she had a discussion with.

00:28:59,845 –> 00:29:05,685
And I think by then, we’d seen, like, the power of princesses, so there was this more desire to insert.

00:29:05,685 –> 00:29:10,590
But I think prior to that, not many people had ideas about their character.

00:29:10,810 –> 00:29:13,050
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. To personalize them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:13,050 –> 00:29:18,935
Well, speaking of Tiana, I know that at the Disney Parks, we’re gonna have 2 new rides, new as in refurbished.

00:29:19,395 –> 00:29:24,855
We’re doing away with the old and ushering in the new because Tiana’s Bayou Adventure, which was previously Splash Mountain,

00:29:25,160 –> 00:29:30,140
is set to open this month in Disney World, and I think very soon at Disneyland.

00:29:30,520 –> 00:29:35,055
And it’s funny because I’ve seen a lot of reels that basically take us to the whole ride. Yeah.

00:29:35,055 –> 00:29:38,415
I know by now many people have been on splashbound, so we know kind of how it ends. Right?

00:29:38,415 –> 00:29:40,275
You go down and then you the splash.

00:29:41,055 –> 00:29:48,630
But, I think it’s very interesting that they’re pretty much giving us a whole run through of what the ride looks like. Yeah.

00:29:48,630 –> 00:29:54,575
And I think, you know, on a positive note, it’s showing the kind of progression of all of the animatronics and how beautiful

00:29:54,715 –> 00:29:58,865
they are now because you have other Disney parks doing the Frozen ride Yeah.

00:29:59,115 –> 00:30:03,910
Over at, Tokyo, and there’s the Tangled ride at Tokyo Disney too.

00:30:04,210 –> 00:30:08,950
All of the animatronics are much more lifelike, and they are, you know, very

00:30:17,230 –> 00:30:24,195
like, kind of preserve the mystery, and the magic of being on a ride and seeing these things. I don’t know. What do you all think?

00:30:24,355 –> 00:30:33,970
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. I have seen the behind the scenes even when they were just showing the animatronics and not on the rides. And it they were very impressive. They look lifelike. There’s more movement.

00:30:34,270 –> 00:30:42,765
And I think it’s going to be, at least at Disneyland, now a shock comparison of, like, why is this ride have such realistic animatronic Yeah. And others.

00:30:42,765 –> 00:30:47,745
Stefanie Bautista: And then you see Jakey old Captain Sparrow, and he’s just like, where are you looking, sir?

00:30:48,850 –> 00:30:53,570
Ariel Landrum: However, I do love Mama Odie, and I love that, the yes.

00:30:53,570 –> 00:30:54,710
Stefanie Bautista: Yes. The voice.

00:30:54,850 –> 00:30:58,149
Ariel Landrum: The voice, like, on the ride. That that is her.

00:30:58,365 –> 00:31:04,865
And I know that I’ll, what I’ve heard from the the disabled community is that they appreciated the reels and the walkthroughs

00:31:05,165 –> 00:31:11,950
so that they would be able to prepare themselves and not be as scared or, like, have their children, specifically autistic children, like, get used to it.

00:31:11,950 –> 00:31:15,870
So when they go on the ride the first time, they’ll be more willing to. Oh, I see. Yeah.

00:31:15,870 –> 00:31:22,865
So so that’s where I saw the the the goodness, the you don’t get a surprise, and it is if you are a Disney fan, it is hard

00:31:22,865 –> 00:31:26,660
to then all of a sudden try and, like, mute, like, Tiana.

00:31:26,660 –> 00:31:31,540
Tiana’s by like, there are so many things that you would have to mute to not see that Stef. It’s just not gonna happen.

00:31:31,540 –> 00:31:36,225
Again, like we said in the beginning, you get so much news, like, right mhmm.

00:31:36,365 –> 00:31:42,285
Chance Calloway: Right. That’s true. That’s true. I mean, I think the benefit of me, like, not being on Twitter and having a very limited social

00:31:42,285 –> 00:31:46,159
media presence is I’ve only seen 1 of those videos of the blinds face.

00:31:46,159 –> 00:31:51,015
Stefanie Bautista: But see, that’s how much it’s been out there because you think and you only see them. You’re not on anything. Yeah.

00:31:51,015 –> 00:31:55,575
Chance Calloway: Yeah. So I’ve seen I’ve seen the really majestic looking animatronics, but I don’t know what the ride is like.

00:31:55,575 –> 00:31:57,434
But at this point, I would be surprised.

00:31:57,750 –> 00:32:03,750
But I part of me also thinks that there’s, Disney might intentionally want to put more out there so that people understand,

00:32:03,750 –> 00:32:07,475
look, we did, you know, we did this with care and with love.

00:32:07,774 –> 00:32:14,560
That way you don’t have to worry about getting on the ride and being, like, this is offensive, and I’m locked in. And I can’t get out.

00:32:14,640 –> 00:32:15,940
Stefanie Bautista: Which was the case before.

00:32:16,000 –> 00:32:19,620
Ariel Landrum: What are your feelings about the fact that Tiana, the choice I replaced?

00:32:20,720 –> 00:32:23,255
Chance Calloway: No. I mean, I’m glad that Tiana’s getting a ride.

00:32:23,415 –> 00:32:25,415
You know, I I didn’t love that film.

00:32:25,415 –> 00:32:28,375
So at first, it’s kinda like, how does that kind of incorporate that? I remember, oh, yeah.

00:32:28,375 –> 00:32:30,810
They’re like on the rafts and all that kind of stuff. I guess that works.

00:32:31,050 –> 00:32:35,790
I had like, many people, I had my own thoughts of, like, what could take the place in Flash Mountain.

00:32:35,850 –> 00:32:36,350
Ariel Landrum: Like?

00:32:36,890 –> 00:32:37,790
Chance Calloway: I don’t remember.

00:32:39,215 –> 00:32:42,274
Stefanie Bautista: This is an old thought. Yeah. It was a very serious thought.

00:32:42,335 –> 00:32:45,934
Chance Calloway: But, yeah, I, I’m not mad about Tiana getting here right. Yeah.

00:32:45,934 –> 00:32:51,720
Stefanie Bautista: But I also thought that being in New Orleans Square, I did not see anything that represents New Orleans aside from the architecture.

00:32:51,780 –> 00:32:55,000
Tiana has such historical, like, the life roots.

00:32:55,220 –> 00:33:00,355
It was I feel like, a match made in Disney heaven to put her there.

00:33:01,455 –> 00:33:05,700
And, you know, the the food has such a big part of it because that’s literally her business.

00:33:05,840 –> 00:33:10,400
Ariel Landrum: Chance you may not know is that Tiana actually walks around and Yeah. Greets every guest.

00:33:10,400 –> 00:33:13,265
Like, she is at the restaurant, and then a band will play.

00:33:13,345 –> 00:33:19,425
And then she seems to be, like, every 15, 30 minutes that she comes out in her restaurant dress that yeah.

00:33:19,425 –> 00:33:21,205
And, like, comes up and hugs people.

00:33:21,320 –> 00:33:26,600
So we talked about how that’s very accessible for those who may not be able to go on the, big boat.

00:33:26,600 –> 00:33:35,015
Stefanie Bautista: Oh, the river valley. I have had the privilege to be on a Disney cruise, and she, on many, ships now has a restaurant inside the cruise.

00:33:35,075 –> 00:33:40,159
When you are on a Disney cruise, you get to go to the 3 different restaurants every single day if you do, like, a 3 day cruise.

00:33:40,700 –> 00:33:49,595
I had Tiana’s place as my last 1, which was so great because she sings and it’s like a big party, and it’s it’s so beautiful

00:33:49,595 –> 00:33:54,955
because they on Disney Cruise, there’s, like, this thing where they try to get everybody on the boat feel like they’re family

00:33:54,955 –> 00:33:57,490
even though you it’s like you’re staying at a hotel with everybody else.

00:33:57,490 –> 00:33:58,290
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I like that.

00:33:58,290 –> 00:34:04,775
Stefanie Bautista: But they have a sense of community there, and I think it was great that I get I got to have Tiana as the last 1 because she,

00:34:04,775 –> 00:34:08,615
like, went out with a bang and it was beautiful and all the kids loved it.

00:34:08,615 –> 00:34:12,155
That was the first time I saw that representation. It was on a Disney cruise.

00:34:12,180 –> 00:34:14,660
Oh, and not many people get to go on Disney cruises. No.

00:34:15,140 –> 00:34:20,280
It’s not very accessible to people, so I think now having it at the parks makes her a lot more accessible.

00:34:20,695 –> 00:34:23,355
Ariel Landrum: And I I think specifically talking about Tiana.

00:34:23,415 –> 00:34:26,455
Again, Steph and I mentioned this in the evolution of the Disney princess.

00:34:26,455 –> 00:34:28,700
Our critiques, my dad was in the

00:34:35,339 –> 00:34:40,605
reasons for wanting to open up the restaurant was because her dad fed many people, and he had died in the war.

00:34:40,605 –> 00:34:43,985
And we know this because we see a picture of him in uniform, and he got a purple heart.

00:34:44,125 –> 00:34:50,140
Problem is the era that that happened, he would not have been recognized or received a purple heart because he is a black.

00:34:50,140 –> 00:34:54,140
Additionally, Tiana and Naveen wouldn’t have gotten married because it was Jim Crow laws.

00:34:54,140 –> 00:34:59,845
They wouldn’t allow 2 different people of 2 different races to marry each other even if he’s not American.

00:35:00,144 –> 00:35:05,380
So there are a lot of critiques about how that movie forgets the actual experience.

00:35:06,320 –> 00:35:12,160
Chance Calloway: Right. There’s there’s something about it being a literal fairy tale, and then them trying to still set it in the very real

00:35:12,160 –> 00:35:17,174
recent history of America as opposed to making up a country or, you know, an unnamed country.

00:35:17,315 –> 00:35:21,815
So, yeah, there’s so much more, to critique because of that choice.

00:35:22,360 –> 00:35:29,400
That wouldn’t be the case if they say had adopt adapted Farrah’s Beautiful Daughters or something like that instead. But, yeah.

00:35:29,400 –> 00:35:31,724
It’s it’s that idea of kind of like, okay.

00:35:31,724 –> 00:35:34,765
So this is set in America and, you know, okay. Her best friend is white.

00:35:34,765 –> 00:35:37,645
And I guess that’s possible, especially in New Orleans at that time.

00:35:37,645 –> 00:35:43,210
But then he starts to notice those other things, and it kinda takes you out of the magic of the story.

00:35:43,210 –> 00:35:48,855
Ariel Landrum: Well, even when she is serving up her haute beignets to her best friend’s dad, she wouldn’t be, because he wouldn’t be in

00:35:48,855 –> 00:35:53,734
a restaurant that was being served and the food being cooked by black people,

00:35:53,734 –> 00:35:55,170
Stefanie Bautista: or she would’ve been on the same floor.

00:35:55,170 –> 00:35:55,650
Ariel Landrum: She wouldn’t be She’s

00:35:55,650 –> 00:35:57,650
Chance Calloway: pretty straightforward. There there was some kind of distinction.

00:35:57,650 –> 00:35:59,490
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. There’d be some sort of segregation there.

00:35:59,490 –> 00:36:04,950
Chance Calloway: Yeah. And those were kind of things, of course, you don’t wanna necessarily have to deal with in the fairy tale movie that’s aimed for children.

00:36:05,365 –> 00:36:11,925
But those were the kind of developmental decisions that I think, because remember when they first announced it, Tiana’s name was Maddie. Yeah.

00:36:11,925 –> 00:36:15,960
They meant they had the word schemermaid Yeah. In there. And it was like, okay.

00:36:15,960 –> 00:36:18,120
Her name is Maddie, and she’s and she’s a maid.

00:36:18,120 –> 00:36:23,055
And so they, you know, they changed all those kind of things, but, clearly, they put a blood back hook a little.

00:36:23,454 –> 00:36:27,934
Stefanie Bautista: Right. And that just goes to show the repercussions that still need to be made Right.

00:36:28,015 –> 00:36:31,560
And the conversations that still need to be had, especially with children.

00:36:31,620 –> 00:36:37,140
Because if you are reaching back further and further into history as kids are growing up now, it’s so much more important

00:36:37,140 –> 00:36:47,130
to clarify that history in the correct But that doesn’t mean we can’t move forward from it and remember that it happened back

00:36:47,369 –> 00:36:51,710
but that doesn’t mean we can’t move forward from it and remember that it happened back then.

00:36:51,849 –> 00:36:59,414
Chance Calloway: Yes. I did wanna also give a shout out to some of the other, black actresses who embody, like, black princesses in different mediums.

00:36:59,714 –> 00:37:02,934
Pre summer gets overlooked a lot because, you know, Aphra Atlantis.

00:37:03,990 –> 00:37:06,070
Also, Toni Braxton played Belle on Broadway.

00:37:06,070 –> 00:37:08,650
He was the 1st black Broadway princess on Broadway.

00:37:08,710 –> 00:37:14,174
Heather Hely, he was in LA on Broadway, but also Aida who is is the Disney princess on Broadway. Love

00:37:14,174 –> 00:37:14,994
Stefanie Bautista: that production.

00:37:15,214 –> 00:37:18,494
Chance Calloway: Yes. IIII wanted to give a shout out to those ladies as well.

00:37:18,494 –> 00:37:24,300
Stefanie Bautista: I also wanted to mention some of my favorite black characters are the muses from Hercules. Yes.

00:37:24,300 –> 00:37:30,315
They are, like, iconic in my memory because they gave so much life to that movie. Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:30,315 –> 00:37:34,495
I think it was such a great decision to make the soundtrack essentially gospel.

00:37:34,555 –> 00:37:40,830
Me and Chas have talked about this, but, thankfully, on drives, and it was very funny that they decided to take that route

00:37:40,830 –> 00:37:43,550
in a movie that was about Greek mythology Yeah.

00:37:43,630 –> 00:37:49,145
Which kind of would never have that spot sober, but yet here we have Hercules with a, you know, a gospel sounding soundtrack.

00:37:49,145 –> 00:37:51,545
But he’s from a whole different other culture.

00:37:51,545 –> 00:37:59,800
Chance Calloway: Onto the muses, Lillias White specifically was the head muse, and most of the other muses were very iconic Broadway stars like LaShauns, Roz Ryan.

00:37:59,860 –> 00:38:02,105
But, yeah, those voices cannot be duplicated.

00:38:02,245 –> 00:38:09,510
And if they ever do a live action, I don’t know what’s and I hope they’re calling Amber Riley. Who cares for Swain? Hercules? Doesn’t matter.

00:38:09,510 –> 00:38:13,690
Some people might care about Swain McGraw. Everyone’s gonna care about The muse. The muse.

00:38:13,750 –> 00:38:18,225
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Yeah. Give us a ABC special. Yeah. Exacts. Yeah.

00:38:18,365 –> 00:38:20,445
Give us 1 of those live things that you do.

00:38:20,445 –> 00:38:30,400
I just thought about Wish, which is a newer movie. The lead is black. Yes. Ariana Gonzalez. Let me forget her.

00:38:31,660 –> 00:38:35,425
Chance Calloway: 0MG0, no. So Well, you know why? You know why?

00:38:35,425 –> 00:38:39,745
Because the whole reception for the film has been so muted. Right. I even haven’t seen it yet.

00:38:39,745 –> 00:38:41,505
Because I I currently don’t have, like, Disney plus.

00:38:41,505 –> 00:38:45,010
So, like, I I was gonna go see theaters, and then I didn’t. And Yeah. I was on streaming.

00:38:45,010 –> 00:38:46,850
I don’t have that particular streaming service.

00:38:46,850 –> 00:38:48,530
So I might I might, like, rent it tonight and watch it.

00:38:48,530 –> 00:38:48,850
Ariel Landrum: So And

00:38:48,850 –> 00:38:55,485
Stefanie Bautista: to be honest, I mean, I was very reluctant to see it because I didn’t there was no pull for me to watch it aside from, you

00:38:55,485 –> 00:38:57,505
know, it was a celebration of Disney 100.

00:38:58,260 –> 00:39:01,700
And I saw it because my niece’s nephews wanted to watch it at the time.

00:39:01,700 –> 00:39:06,235
It’s a very beautiful story, very diverse task. Ariana Duvel does a great job.

00:39:06,235 –> 00:39:08,495
There are some bangers on that soundtrack.

00:39:08,955 –> 00:39:16,730
But I think it does get overshadowed with the whole just advertising and just the whole thing around Disney 100.

00:39:16,789 –> 00:39:22,555
I feel like that overshadowed a lot of the decision making, because there are hidden gems in there, essentially hidden Mickey’s

00:39:22,555 –> 00:39:24,575
that you can find all throughout the movie.

00:39:24,875 –> 00:39:30,415
But I feel like it was kind of, like, a Frankenstein of all the things that Disney has done in the last 100.

00:39:30,714 –> 00:39:35,780
But here’s an opportunity to have, female black lead. Let’s do it.

00:39:35,840 –> 00:39:43,395
It kind of almost seems a little too convenient, but at the same time, as we’re talking about how it’s never the right time, you just do it.

00:39:43,535 –> 00:39:45,615
I I love the way they animated her.

00:39:45,855 –> 00:39:45,935
Chance Calloway: I

00:39:45,935 –> 00:39:47,155
Stefanie Bautista: think she was beautiful.

00:39:47,490 –> 00:39:53,010
Ariel Landrum: So that that sort of gives us 3, but only one’s going to be crown only 1 was crowned at Disney.

00:39:53,010 –> 00:39:54,289
Chance Calloway: Right. I was gonna say it.

00:39:54,289 –> 00:40:00,975
Ariel Landrum: You think Yes. Kita. You added Kita in the lineup. That’s 3. Yep. But, they only crown Yeah.

00:40:01,095 –> 00:40:05,494
Success as we know, like, covertly when their film makes a certain amount of money.

00:40:05,494 –> 00:40:11,670
Chance Calloway: Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Which is unfortunate because I really do feel like they stumbled with the marketing for for Wish.

00:40:11,670 –> 00:40:14,869
And, apparently, like, the actual film was enough to overcome that. Yeah.

00:40:14,869 –> 00:40:16,405
Because I’m I’m sitting here like, yeah.

00:40:16,405 –> 00:40:18,245
I can’t believe that that completely skipped my mind.

00:40:18,245 –> 00:40:25,500
And that also says something because we had a whole conversation about representation, this specific sort, and the most recent 1 didn’t even register.

00:40:25,640 –> 00:40:32,755
Stefanie Bautista: Right. I feel like missed opportunity for Disney to be able to highlight something in a really good way because of capitalism. Yes. Potentially. Yeah.

00:40:32,755 –> 00:40:34,215
You know, for lack of better word.

00:40:34,275 –> 00:40:38,055
Chance Calloway: Also, question. Was there, a black royal in Wish anywhere?

00:40:38,329 –> 00:40:41,450
Stefanie Bautista: I don’t know. The 2 royals, they were not. Okay.

00:40:41,450 –> 00:40:44,490
They were darker tone skin, but they were not.

00:40:44,490 –> 00:40:45,290
Chance Calloway: Okay. Yeah.

00:40:45,290 –> 00:40:46,170
Stefanie Bautista: I know that. For sure.

00:40:46,170 –> 00:40:49,095
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. This is just something to note to the audience.

00:40:49,095 –> 00:40:55,434
When you are a person of color, you can pretty much delineate when someone is dark brown versus a black.

00:40:55,790 –> 00:40:56,910
Chance Calloway: Right. Like, not the

00:40:57,070 –> 00:41:04,510
Ariel Landrum: If you are somebody who is not a person of color or has never lived, in or more white passing, you might not be able to tell

00:41:04,510 –> 00:41:07,095
that diff but we can certainly see it pretty quickly.

00:41:07,095 –> 00:41:12,375
Like, even though Kida has, like, skin, she’s she’s black. Right. She just lived underground. Right.

00:41:12,375 –> 00:41:17,720
Chance Calloway: Unfortunately, like, in the film that while a a cult classic, it didn’t do you know, it didn’t bang up the box office.

00:41:17,720 –> 00:41:21,135
So a lot of people don’t even talk about it when they talk about the Disney canon.

00:41:21,215 –> 00:41:24,655
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Because, my favorite character on there was was Doc.

00:41:24,655 –> 00:41:27,955
He’s ready to chop everybody’s legs off. He saw through both.

00:41:28,015 –> 00:41:34,960
Now something else we wanted to talk about before we get to our close was, the last episode you were on was a villains episode,

00:41:34,960 –> 00:41:38,705
and you specifically talked about, characters that were queer coded.

00:41:38,785 –> 00:41:42,305
Are there any characters that you think are black coded, and what exactly does that?

00:41:42,305 –> 00:41:48,300
Chance Calloway: Yes. Well, I mean, a black coded character basically would be a character that isn’t identifiably black within the context

00:41:48,300 –> 00:41:53,020
of the story that’s being told, but you know he’s black or you know she’s black.

00:41:53,020 –> 00:41:54,880
You know, it’s kind of 1 of those things.

00:41:55,335 –> 00:42:08,210
And I think probably outside, of course, the universe of The Lion King, our lion is 1 of the most Oh. Quoted characters. Probably the Filipinos 1 and 2. But Yeah. He was voiced by Tabitha Gamble. So it is.

00:42:08,210 –> 00:42:11,010
You know, a black person is like, okay. Powh Lyne’s 1 of us.

00:42:11,010 –> 00:42:13,315
I know some people think that all the goofs are black coded.

00:42:13,315 –> 00:42:16,475
Stefanie Bautista: I was just gonna say, I feel like it’s a general consumption Yeah.

00:42:16,595 –> 00:42:19,315
That, you know, all of the goofs are Yeah. People of color.

00:42:19,315 –> 00:42:25,030
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I mean, Pete also was originally called Black Pete, so there’s something there to look into there. Really?

00:42:25,170 –> 00:42:27,190
Stefanie Bautista: That sounds like a rapper’s day in TV.

00:42:27,250 –> 00:42:29,010
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Black Black Pete. Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:29,170 –> 00:42:30,595
Ariel Landrum: Number 1. That’s a like like

00:42:30,914 –> 00:42:34,595
Chance Calloway: Black Pete except for that hotness for your ears. Yeah.

00:42:34,595 –> 00:42:37,015
The cowline probably would be my number 1.

00:42:37,474 –> 00:42:38,615
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Even the hair.

00:42:38,674 –> 00:42:44,900
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Because even even though, you know, Simba is an Emperor Prince and Jason Weaver sang for his voice, it was still Jonathan

00:42:44,900 –> 00:42:49,065
Taylor Thomas whose voice is in everyone’s ear. Yeah. So, yeah.

00:42:49,065 –> 00:42:53,325
I I put Caroline as my number 1 Yeah. Black Kobe character. Yeah.

00:42:53,630 –> 00:42:55,309
Do you guys think of of anyone who would

00:42:55,630 –> 00:42:58,690
Stefanie Bautista: I mean, I was gonna think Max. The same Yeah. The Goofy movie.

00:42:58,829 –> 00:43:00,029
Chance Calloway: Max is definitely black pudding.

00:43:00,190 –> 00:43:03,105
Ariel Landrum: Powerline and yes. Well, but not goofy for some reason.

00:43:03,105 –> 00:43:12,530
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Not well, I think it’s goofy existed before that era, before we had a family, and he was definitely a suburban white white person back in the day. Yeah. And the original, like, goofy cartoons.

00:43:13,070 –> 00:43:16,290
Ariel Landrum: So I thought of my the black coded character, Mushu.

00:43:17,005 –> 00:43:17,505
Chance Calloway: Mushu.

00:43:18,365 –> 00:43:23,165
Ariel Landrum: That like that? Yep. Not only because the voice actor, but the way that Mushu is written.

00:43:23,165 –> 00:43:23,485
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:43:23,485 –> 00:43:26,040
Ariel Landrum: The way that he talks to the elders. Oh, for sure.

00:43:26,040 –> 00:43:30,040
Stefanie Bautista: I mean, Eddie Murphy, I a very unique voice. Yeah.

00:43:30,120 –> 00:43:36,815
I think Mushu is so interesting because as, you know, somebody who identifies with the Asian culture, with Mulan I mean, I’m

00:43:36,815 –> 00:43:40,195
not East Asian, but Mulan was our first Asian Disney princess.

00:43:40,790 –> 00:43:46,970
The war and everything that she was going through was so solemn that they I feel like they threw in for comedic relief.

00:43:47,030 –> 00:43:47,430
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:43:47,430 –> 00:43:51,285
Stefanie Bautista: And, you know, what does that say about that particular decision?

00:43:51,665 –> 00:44:00,549
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I feel like I feel like, I mean, it’s mostly gonna be animals at this point because half the cast of Oliver and company, I think, are black coded. Right. Yeah. Yep.

00:44:00,609 –> 00:44:03,809
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. With the exception of the 1 that was voiced by was it?

00:44:03,809 –> 00:44:09,055
Stefanie Bautista: It’s not. Teacher. Yeah. Cheryl Lee Ralph was in Oliver and company. She was Rita.

00:44:09,115 –> 00:44:13,695
Ariel Landrum: Yes. Rita. That’s when I was like the 1 was like the love interest. Rita. Yeah.

00:44:13,755 –> 00:44:19,190
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I know this. Oh my gosh. Is Rita’s song Streets of Gold? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:19,190 –> 00:44:22,470
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. So Cheech was Banzai in The Lion King. Banzai?

00:44:22,710 –> 00:44:23,430
Chance Calloway: Like the big movie.

00:44:23,430 –> 00:44:24,330
Stefanie Bautista: 1 of the hyenas.

00:44:24,465 –> 00:44:24,785
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:44:24,785 –> 00:44:27,525
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. So then Banzai? Yeah. I thought it was just Eddie.

00:44:27,665 –> 00:44:28,945
Chance Calloway: No. Ed Ed was the dumb 1.

00:44:28,945 –> 00:44:30,545
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Ed was the dumb 1. And then

00:44:30,545 –> 00:44:31,925
Ariel Landrum: and then Whoopi Goldberg?

00:44:31,985 –> 00:44:32,865
Chance Calloway: Yeah. It was Shenzi.

00:44:32,865 –> 00:44:34,690
Stefanie Bautista: Shenzi, and then Banzai was the other.

00:44:34,850 –> 00:44:38,930
And he was also Ramon in Cars, which I know him from because I watch Cars all the time. Oh, yeah.

00:44:38,930 –> 00:44:39,970
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah. He is Ramon. Yeah.

00:44:39,970 –> 00:44:42,255
Stefanie Bautista: And it’s Jennifer Lewis. With 1 is.

00:44:42,654 –> 00:44:43,134
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:43,134 –> 00:44:43,954
Stefanie Bautista: So yeah.

00:44:44,015 –> 00:44:45,615
Ariel Landrum: There you go. Black coated car.

00:44:45,615 –> 00:44:45,855
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:44:45,855 –> 00:44:48,095
Stefanie Bautista: That’s coated car. That’s right. That’s right.

00:44:48,095 –> 00:44:50,434
Chance Calloway: That’s absolutely right. Well, we can definitely bicoated.

00:44:50,734 –> 00:44:54,530
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah. It’s just Running a business again on the

00:44:54,530 –> 00:44:55,570
Chance Calloway: black. Yeah.

00:44:55,570 –> 00:44:57,730
Ariel Landrum: Black coated women running a business.

00:44:57,730 –> 00:45:03,825
Stefanie Bautista: I feel like for cars, which is cars are inanimate objects. They’re not animals. Right.

00:45:03,964 –> 00:45:07,105
But car culture exists in different ways in different culture.

00:45:07,405 –> 00:45:12,430
So by choosing Cheech as Ramon, that’s Latino car culture. Yeah. By choosing hydraulic.

00:45:12,730 –> 00:45:15,130
Hydraulics, and he had the pinstripes on his car. Yeah.

00:45:15,130 –> 00:45:19,055
And then by choosing Jennifer Lewis as Flo, she was a beautiful Cadillac

00:45:19,135 –> 00:45:19,255
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:45:19,375 –> 00:45:21,935
Stefanie Bautista: Which is also part of black culture too.

00:45:21,935 –> 00:45:22,415
Chance Calloway: Oh, absolutely.

00:45:22,415 –> 00:45:26,150
Stefanie Bautista: So little of appropriation, but also a little bit of representation Yeah.

00:45:26,230 –> 00:45:27,589
Which can exist in the same place.

00:45:27,589 –> 00:45:31,930
Chance Calloway: It’s funny because, you know, I’m thinking, Song of the South is full of, like, the characters.

00:45:32,230 –> 00:45:34,575
Ariel Landrum: But for the wrong reason. 000. No. No. No.

00:45:34,575 –> 00:45:36,535
Chance Calloway: Like the crows in Dublin? It’s the crows. Yeah.

00:45:36,535 –> 00:45:37,215
Ariel Landrum: I doubt it.

00:45:37,215 –> 00:45:42,410
Chance Calloway: Yeah. No. Which my dad says him and his friends thought it was funny. They weren’t offended by that all.

00:45:42,410 –> 00:45:44,350
They thought they thought the girls were funny.

00:45:44,410 –> 00:45:46,110
So it’s 1 of those weird things.

00:45:46,330 –> 00:45:50,750
Stefanie Bautista: I have heard on black Twitter and other things that Robin Hood is black.

00:45:51,005 –> 00:45:51,724
Chance Calloway: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:45:51,724 –> 00:45:54,305
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:55,085 –> 00:45:58,760
Chance Calloway: Blue. Blue. Oh, yeah. Blue. Yeah. Blue is black. And pink bluey.

00:45:58,900 –> 00:45:59,460
Ariel Landrum: Okay. Okay.

00:45:59,460 –> 00:45:59,620
Stefanie Bautista: It’s a

00:45:59,620 –> 00:46:00,820
Chance Calloway: little of it’s but it’s true.

00:46:00,820 –> 00:46:01,380
Stefanie Bautista: But it’s true.

00:46:01,380 –> 00:46:07,744
Ariel Landrum: Okay. See, as you start to think about it, you’ll start to realize so many things are black coated, but never just hot.

00:46:07,744 –> 00:46:08,225
Chance Calloway: Right.

00:46:08,225 –> 00:46:13,525
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. It’s so funny. The jumbo book is so funny to me because it is set in in in India.

00:46:13,665 –> 00:46:15,329
Ariel Landrum: There’s no Bollywood beef. No.

00:46:15,329 –> 00:46:21,490
Stefanie Bautista: Not at all. The only Indian person you see is Mowgli, essentially, and everyone else around him is, like, I feel another

00:46:21,809 –> 00:46:22,009
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:46:22,210 –> 00:46:23,265
Stefanie Bautista: Another type of person.

00:46:23,345 –> 00:46:29,345
Ariel Landrum: Well, and if talking about representation of people of color, Mowgli didn’t get to be Indian because he didn’t know he was Indian.

00:46:29,345 –> 00:46:31,720
He was raised by and, yeah, he got to be animal.

00:46:31,800 –> 00:46:34,700
So he got to be the the pet human throughout the Yeah.

00:46:34,760 –> 00:46:36,060
Chance Calloway: Culturally. Culturally.

00:46:36,280 –> 00:46:40,085
Stefanie Bautista: No. Yeah. Only in the beginning and at the end when he sees a little girl.

00:46:40,244 –> 00:46:42,325
Chance Calloway: Yeah. He sings 1 of the best songs in the movie.

00:46:42,325 –> 00:46:45,625
Ariel Landrum: Yes. Yeah. For, like, few seconds. Yeah. So gorgeous.

00:46:45,845 –> 00:46:49,410
Chance Calloway: Yeah. That’s my most first place song in that soundtrack. Yeah. It’s a banger.

00:46:49,490 –> 00:46:52,609
Stefanie Bautista: It’s it is a banger. Absolutely. But Yeah. Because I think

00:46:52,690 –> 00:46:56,609
Chance Calloway: did they want, they wanted Louis Armstrong to voice King Louie, I wanna say. Yeah.

00:46:56,609 –> 00:46:59,855
Then, Lou Louis Prima did it instead because Louis Armstrong.

00:47:00,234 –> 00:47:05,454
I think I think Louis Armstrong was like, I don’t I’m not gonna play monkey. Really? Yeah. That’s what it the conversation was.

00:47:05,515 –> 00:47:12,810
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah. I would say the genie was black coated, and then the genie was Will Smith.

00:47:13,109 –> 00:47:16,069
And Will Smith was black in the movie, except for when he was a genie.

00:47:16,069 –> 00:47:17,130
Chance Calloway: And he was blue.

00:47:17,335 –> 00:47:23,355
Ariel Landrum: So is that that’s you know, though it’s not an animal, it’s still again, does it get to be their person Right. The whole movie?

00:47:23,495 –> 00:47:25,195
Stefanie Bautista: We’re thinking Robin Williams.

00:47:25,710 –> 00:47:29,410
Ariel Landrum: Well yeah. No. So the gene I think the genie Robin Williams was black coded.

00:47:29,549 –> 00:47:32,930
Chance Calloway: That’s interesting. I feel like the gene was Robin Williams coded.

00:47:33,069 –> 00:47:34,109
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Well, yes.

00:47:34,109 –> 00:47:41,695
Chance Calloway: You know? Yeah. Yeah. Fair. I I do see that that that I never internalized it that way, but I do think there’s a lot of problematic things.

00:47:41,695 –> 00:47:49,269
I’m I hated that Will Smith was passing the role simply because slave master dynamics Gross. Really felt gross to me. And I, you know,

00:47:49,269 –> 00:47:50,395
Ariel Landrum: definitely Yes.

00:47:50,635 –> 00:47:58,395
Chance Calloway: Really hated that. So maybe even if the animated version was black coded, I I would have rejected that with every ounce of my page.

00:47:58,395 –> 00:48:00,849
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. But no. They did a Prestige production

00:48:01,069 –> 00:48:01,190
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:48:01,309 –> 00:48:03,710
Stefanie Bautista: For a very, very long time at California Adventure.

00:48:03,710 –> 00:48:07,995
And as far as I can remember, every single 1 of those genies was played by Blackhawk?

00:48:08,075 –> 00:48:08,395
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:48:08,395 –> 00:48:11,595
Ariel Landrum: Yes. And same with on Broadway yeah. On Broadway too.

00:48:11,595 –> 00:48:14,735
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Eagle Heart got the, the Tony for it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:14,795 –> 00:48:16,930
I still think it makes it’s icky to me.

00:48:16,930 –> 00:48:20,530
I would say that magic carpet was black coated, but I think I I don’t think it’s, like, a thing.

00:48:20,530 –> 00:48:21,490
I I think I might just say it.

00:48:21,490 –> 00:48:22,630
Stefanie Bautista: Is it because he’s sassy?

00:48:22,690 –> 00:48:23,089
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:48:23,089 –> 00:48:28,335
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Even in Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah. Gamora. Gamora. Black black coated.

00:48:28,555 –> 00:48:33,535
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Black coated. Yes. Because I see your face. Yeah. We cannot deny that.

00:48:33,835 –> 00:48:38,860
Ariel Landrum: But again, you have to stop there and think about it because they’re they’re not main characters or promoted.

00:48:38,860 –> 00:48:40,940
Like, I didn’t even know Moon Girl came out.

00:48:40,940 –> 00:48:43,840
Like, that that would be would just showed up on by Disney plus.

00:48:44,095 –> 00:48:51,530
Although, I have, like, known about like, I knew when WandaVision was coming out, that was so heavily promoted and low key.

00:48:51,770 –> 00:48:58,730
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Even though I didn’t see Frozen, the Frozen songs were at escape. Yeah. Wish heard nothing. Yeah.

00:48:58,730 –> 00:49:04,154
And and part of me also wonders if it hap because the strike was happening at the same time. Yeah.

00:49:04,154 –> 00:49:07,194
So, you know, Ariana couldn’t go out and promote it and all those kind of things.

00:49:07,194 –> 00:49:11,210
So I felt there was a lot of different reasons why the reception was muted.

00:49:11,210 –> 00:49:17,195
But, yeah, there’s a distinct difference, I think, in how Wish was received versus their other animated films recently.

00:49:17,355 –> 00:49:24,155
Stefanie Bautista: And also the recent years, we did have to deal with the pandemic and the thought of a lot of these productions or the release,

00:49:24,155 –> 00:49:28,559
like, for Soul and for Turning Red, they were straight to streaming.

00:49:28,619 –> 00:49:33,900
They were not in the theaters because no 1 could go to the and then after that, when everything started coming back, we had

00:49:33,900 –> 00:49:37,135
a huge exponential, like, jump to all of this content.

00:49:37,515 –> 00:49:40,235
And now it’s hard to kind of, like, keep track of it all.

00:49:40,235 –> 00:49:46,850
So so many different factors that kind of dictate the way that we consume things and the way that we hear about things

00:49:46,930 –> 00:49:47,049
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:49:47,170 –> 00:49:50,955
Stefanie Bautista: And the level of what’s popular, what’s not, what the kids are talking about, not.

00:49:50,955 –> 00:49:54,155
And then also, how connecting you out with social media more not.

00:49:54,155 –> 00:49:57,775
Ariel Landrum: Going back to full circle about, like, how news used to take so long.

00:49:58,010 –> 00:50:04,810
It also means that if news doesn’t circulate, it doesn’t circulate now, which means that it’s part of your ethical duty.

00:50:04,810 –> 00:50:11,244
If you do want to promote voices and, encourage representation, you go back and look at the things that you

00:50:11,244 –> 00:50:16,170
Stefanie Bautista: might have missed. Yeah. Because, unfortunately, we’re not all gonna sit down and watch Cinderella on the wonderful world

00:50:16,170 –> 00:50:19,369
of Disney anymore on a Sunday evening. Right. Those times are gone.

00:50:19,369 –> 00:50:21,609
Chance Calloway: Yeah. The way we consume media is very different now. Mhmm.

00:50:21,609 –> 00:50:25,235
And, you know, like, if you’re you’re lucky, you watch something, and then it’s great.

00:50:25,235 –> 00:50:29,095
And then you tell your friends, and then they also watch it. But Yeah. That’s not always the case.

00:50:29,235 –> 00:50:34,550
Stefanie Bautista: But I think it’s very interesting, the ride we have taken Yes. And and this realization.

00:50:34,770 –> 00:50:38,115
Because listeners and we are thinking of these things in real time.

00:50:38,195 –> 00:50:38,755
Chance Calloway: Yes. Right.

00:50:38,755 –> 00:50:41,955
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. So it’s coming to our memories as we’re remembering all of this.

00:50:41,955 –> 00:50:46,375
And I think that goes to show that they have always existed, but never highlight.

00:50:46,609 –> 00:50:53,170
And I feel like that’s really what the root of what we’re talking about is when honoring a holiday like Juneteenth, is that

00:50:53,170 –> 00:50:57,055
we need to basically have these voices rise up more Yeah.

00:50:57,135 –> 00:51:02,835
And highlight them more because they’re important voices, they are impactful, and they have shaped the way that we consume

00:51:02,895 –> 00:51:05,369
Disney medium and a lot of other things.

00:51:05,369 –> 00:51:11,549
And that just goes to show the talent and the sheer, attention that we need to give to these boys. Yeah.

00:51:11,845 –> 00:51:16,725
Chance Calloway: Disney needs to release the soundtrack to the Brandy of Whitney Houston Cinderella.

00:51:16,725 –> 00:51:17,365
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Absolutely.

00:51:17,365 –> 00:51:20,025
Chance Calloway: Originally, it wasn’t released because, Brandy’s

00:51:21,250 –> 00:51:22,050
Stefanie Bautista: pictures Yes.

00:51:22,050 –> 00:51:32,175
Chance Calloway: They didn’t wanna ruin, you know, her audience because of Moesha and her upcoming never say never. That’s now decades in the past. Yeah. Let’s get that on streaming. Let’s do that.

00:51:32,175 –> 00:51:33,055
Ariel Landrum: She she’s back.

00:51:33,055 –> 00:51:34,974
Chance Calloway: And she’s back. It’s not a perfect time.

00:51:34,974 –> 00:51:37,454
And and the and the movie now is on Disney plus. Absolutely.

00:51:37,454 –> 00:51:41,720
You could even get it for a very long time. So I say, yeah, release that.

00:51:41,860 –> 00:51:51,025
And then next time you give us a Disney princess that that is that is black, let’s have a black creative team. There’s some amazing black songwriters. You know?

00:51:51,025 –> 00:51:56,005
Let’s let’s give them the reigns for our next, you know, Disney Animation even besides princess. You know?

00:51:56,070 –> 00:52:01,370
If you’re giving me, like, some black characters or protagonists, let’s get some black people behind it.

00:52:01,830 –> 00:52:04,915
Even even old school, you know, guys like Stevie Wonder.

00:52:04,995 –> 00:52:08,455
Can you imagine a Stevie Wonder Disney soundtrack? Yeah. That would be amazing.

00:52:08,595 –> 00:52:11,315
Ariel Landrum: 90 fries. He’s saying, the Mulan 1. Right?

00:52:11,315 –> 00:52:13,075
Stefanie Bautista: He did Trudy Howard with 90 degrees.

00:52:13,075 –> 00:52:14,900
Ariel Landrum: Yes. The tree heart was Yeah.

00:52:15,460 –> 00:52:15,619
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:52:15,619 –> 00:52:17,140
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Fun. Yep.

00:52:17,140 –> 00:52:19,740
Chance Calloway: They just they were on the same label at the time. 90 degrees Same.

00:52:19,880 –> 00:52:24,075
Because I only I learned that when we watched that, This is Pop. Yes.

00:52:24,315 –> 00:52:28,555
Stefanie Bautista: The just the collaborations are endless. Yeah. We have so much talent. Yeah.

00:52:28,555 –> 00:52:35,140
And we can’t wait to see, because, I mean, as we see the steady rise of representation, I feel like it can only go up.

00:52:35,140 –> 00:52:38,040
So all high hopes, all positive vibes.

00:52:38,740 –> 00:52:40,520
But this was such a great conversation.

00:52:40,819 –> 00:52:44,875
Thank you, Chance, for, you know, diving deep into our memories as always.

00:52:45,415 –> 00:52:51,990
And where can we find you and your work so our listeners can find you wherever you’re doing, what you’re doing now.

00:52:51,990 –> 00:52:53,990
And if you wanna shout that out, this is your time.

00:52:53,990 –> 00:52:59,345
Chance Calloway: Yes. Probably the easiest way to access me is through my website, chancecalloway.com. Yes.

00:52:59,345 –> 00:52:59,421
And if you are celebrating Juneteenth, DM

00:52:59,421 –> 00:53:04,845
Ariel Landrum: us and let us know what you’re going to do, where you’re going to be, you’re going to celebrate. You will find us on

00:53:07,460 –> 00:53:09,880
both IG and X @happiestpodgt.

00:53:11,619 –> 00:53:14,200
Stefanie Bautista: Alright. Thank you, everyone. We’ll see you next time.

Website: happy.geektherapy.com
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| Chance on Instagram: @crscalloway | Pretty Dudes on Instagram: @prettydudesweb|
| Website: https://www.chancecalloway.com/ |

Geek Therapy is a 501(c)(3) non-profit that advocates for the effective and meaningful use of popular media in therapeutic, educational, and community practice.
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The post Celebrating Juneteenth and Diversity in Disney appeared first on The Happiest Pod on Earth.

43: Ariel, Stef, and return guest Maria delve into the intricacies of hosting a play therapy conference at Disneyland, focusing on accommodations for dynamic disabilities. They discuss the unique challenges and rewards of planning such an event in a magical setting. They emphasize the importance of inclusivity, accommodations, and the evolving nature of disability services at Disney. They also explore the distinctions between ask culture and guess culture, the impact of ableist assumptions, and practical strategies for integrating play-based interventions for disabled children and adults.

Register for the “Play Therapy: Disney Bound” taking place at Disneyland and the Disneyland Hotel from March 10th-15th, 2025 here:

https://www.anewhopetc.org/playatdisneyland

Register for the “The Supportive Innovations for Therapeutic Heroes Conference (S.I.T.H.)” taking place at Las Cruces Convention Center, New Mexico from September 26th-28th, 2024 here:

https://www.anewhopetc.org/sith

Summary of HPOE 43:

00:00 – 00:02
Is episode 43 of happiest pot on earth.

00:02 – 00:09
On this episode, we are going to be using some, very specific terminology that we would like to define for you ahead of time

00:09 – 00:13
so when you listen you can feel more prepared. The first term is ableism.

00:13 – 00:22
Ableism is the discrimination of and social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that typical abilities are superior.

00:23 – 00:29
At its heart, ableism is rooted in the assumption that disabled people require fixing and defines people by their disability.

00:30 – 00:38
The second term is diversity. Diversity simply means the differences between people, and equity is about securing everyone’s

00:38 – 00:40
access to the same opportunities and resources.

00:41 – 00:47
Inclusion, which is another term that we use, creates a welcoming and respectful environment, and belonging is the feeling

00:47 – 00:50
of being accepted and part of a community.

00:50 – 00:58
Another term is dynamic disability. A dynamic disability is a condition or impairment that can change in severity and impact over time.

00:59 – 01:05
This can include periods of remission or exasperation or symptoms that fluctuate throughout the day.

01:05 – 01:12
People with dynamic disabilities may experience good days, bad days that are unpredictable, which can make it difficult to

01:12 – 01:14
manage their symptoms and plan for the future.

01:26 – 01:29
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the happiest pod on Earth. I’m Steph.

01:29 – 01:35
I’m an educator who uses passions and fandoms to help my students grow and learn about themselves and the world around them.

01:35 – 01:42
And I’m Ariel, a licensed therapist who uses clients’ passions and fandoms to help them grow and heal from trauma and mental illness.

01:42 – 01:49
I’m Maria. I’m a marriage and family therapist and a registered play therapist who pulls from pop culture to normalized mental health and therapy.

01:49 – 01:53
And here at Happiest Pod, we dissect Disney mediums with a critical lens. Why?

01:53 – 01:56
Because we are more than just fans and we expect more from the mediums we consume.

01:57 – 01:58
So everybody, what are we talking about today?

01:59 – 02:08
Well, we have a very special guest on our podcast today, an old friend, I guess you can say, because we have had her on our podcast before.

02:08 – 02:15
We have Maria who is, a wonderful person, human being, and very talented in what she does.

02:15 – 02:22
I am in awe of everything, that she has accomplished, and, I had so much fun the last time I saw her because the last time

02:22 – 02:26
I we saw her was at the parks. So Yeah. Yeah.

02:26 – 02:33
Yeah. Thank you guys so much for having me back, and thanks for coming and playing with me at Disney.

02:33 – 02:35
I mean, there’s no there’s no better work day than

02:35 – 02:36
a day at Disney.

02:36 – 02:39
You really have to pull our hair to, like, go there.

02:39 – 02:44
We’re just like, I don’t know about this one. That’s such a big ask. Oh, good. Ask.

02:44 – 02:46
I had to leave work. Oh my goodness.

02:46 – 02:53
So, Maria, I’m curious. What inspired you to choose Disneyland as the venue of your play therapy conference?

02:53 – 03:00
And were there any unique challenges and rewards that you encountered in having the magical place be the location

03:00 – 03:11
of your conference? Sure. I mean, when we think about play, and the 3 of us being, Disney adults, fan adults, I mean, there’s

03:11 – 03:15
really not a better place than the parks to go and play. Right?

03:16 – 03:24
And so really the the idea behind the conference was how do I integrate play back into the learning? I’m old.

03:24 – 03:30
I used to attend conferences when they were fun. That stopped happening.

03:30 – 03:37
You know, and prior to the pandemic, and then since we’ve been back trying to do, like, learning in person again, I learn

03:37 – 03:40
best when I am fully, like, in it.

03:40 – 03:45
And nothing nothing completely captures my attention than anything Disney touches.

03:46 – 03:49
So, it was just it was a wild dream. It really was.

03:49 – 03:53
It was just kind of a, I wonder if this had ever happened.

03:54 – 03:55
And I was just like, well, what’s the

03:55 – 03:58
worst that’s gonna happen? Right? Like, we’re gonna put it out there.

03:58 – 04:02
Like, the worst day of this is still like a good day at Disney.

04:02 – 04:11
I mean, that’s a pretty safe that’s a pretty safe low bar for me to try it out with. Absolutely. Yeah. And so, like, it’s interesting.

04:11 – 04:14
So, I mean, I’ve done event planning before.

04:14 – 04:16
I do host a conference here in my hometown.

04:16 – 04:22
You you do kind of get to know the ins and outs of event hosting, and then there’s Disney. And then

04:22 – 04:31
there is Disney. Okay, so did they have challenges that they threw your way that you hadn’t experienced in your current experience of event hosting?

04:32 – 04:35
Not, not as many as I had anticipated, right?

04:35 – 04:42
I kind of went in thinking I’m a small, small little minnow fish in a very big pond. Right?

04:42 – 04:49
People who think about Disney events think, you know, big, huge corporation events. I am not that.

04:50 – 04:56
So I I think I went in with the anticipation that I was going to be kind of like, that’s cute.

04:56 – 04:59
He would like to do this, but like, maybe not.

05:00 – 05:02
And that wasn’t the case at all, right?

05:02 – 05:08
They were just, my event was just as important at, like, as, like, the next event coming in.

05:08 – 05:11
That was probably 10 times the size of our event.

05:12 – 05:20
I did not feel, yeah, I did not feel like we were patronized, we were not, you know, set aside, and they, I mean, it’s Disney.

05:21 – 05:26
I I had such a surreal experience of, like, rolling up to the hotel and taking my bags out.

05:26 – 05:35
I’m gonna go check-in, and I’m actually met at front door of someone who knows who I am and, like, walks me to my room, take

05:35 – 05:40
has my bags carried to my room for me, gone through, and, like, here’s a personal number.

05:40 – 05:47
If you need anything, you text this number, and we will respond to you. I was like, oh. Oh my goodness. Oh, okay. Okay.

05:47 – 05:49
Like, you know there’s just 30 of us. Right?

05:49 – 05:51
Like, this is not like a big, big thing.

05:52 – 05:54
You must have me confused or something.

05:54 – 05:55
I know. I know.

05:55 – 05:59
It’s serious. Like, talk about imposter syndrome. I’m sitting here. Me?

05:59 – 06:00
Is it for

06:00 – 06:10
me? Okay. So, no. I I think I think if anything, Disney was a venue that really surpassed my expectations, even even if it was Disney.

06:11 – 06:17
And they really did, unlike some of my local venues, they really did care about my, my event.

06:17 – 06:21
And the number did not seem to matter to them at all.

06:21 – 06:24
Every event there is important and special.

06:24 – 06:27
I love that. That’s like, that’s Disney magic right there. Right?

06:28 – 06:35
And I mean, I remember staying at the Grand Californian and being chosen as like family of the day.

06:35 – 06:36
I did not have kids at that point.

06:37 – 06:42
It was like me and my husband, and they chose us because we were staying there and it was our anniversary.

06:42 – 06:44
And I was like, are you sure?

06:44 – 06:48
It was the imposter syndrome thinking, are you do you have the right people?

06:48 – 06:53
Because we scrimped and saved to get these rooms because they were a pretty penny.

06:53 – 07:01
But yet you are giving me an autograph picture of Mickey and Minnie and, like, you, personalize, you know, all of our items inside the hotel room.

07:01 – 07:10
I think that’s just those little details that make honestly, make it worth it going and choosing them as a venue or choosing

07:10 – 07:17
them as a place to celebrate something, which, in this case, not much a celebration, but more of a learning experience, which

07:17 – 07:20
I think is very unique to use that as a venue.

07:20 – 07:26
I am, I guess you can say experience in doing event planning as well since I do it a lot for my school sites.

07:27 – 07:34
And I totally understand the just the struggle of finding a venue that will work with you and will have things prepared for you.

07:35 – 07:43
From the little time that I was there, at the play therapy conference, you had amazing servers who were just as charming as

07:43 – 07:51
the cast members in the parks, if not more, because, you know, they were interacting with you and making sure you had everything while you were hosting.

07:51 – 07:54
It was so charming and, you know, pixie dust everywhere.

07:54 – 07:59
If I could, you know, make a tangible, analogy to that.

07:59 – 08:07
But, on that note, for listeners who might be interested in hosting their own events at Disneyland, do you have any key do’s or don’ts?

08:07 – 08:09
Did you encounter anything that you were like, okay.

08:09 – 08:19
Maybe I don’t go this route, especially since you did more of a hybrid hotel plus downtown Disney plus park experience because

08:19 – 08:23
those are very big logistical things to juggle.

08:23 – 08:27
So, you know, if you can kind of just give our listeners some tips on that.

08:27 – 08:33
Yeah. Absolutely. Start early. Start early. Yes.

08:33 – 08:41
I mean, the the contracting process, right, like, there’s a process, and Disney has so many options for you to, like, choose. Right?

08:41 – 08:46
So going in blind for the first time, I didn’t know what all my options were. Rain.

08:46 – 08:52
You’re like, I want to do an event, and I have about this many people, and we’re gonna need hotel rooms, and I want park tickets. And I was like, cool.

08:52 – 08:58
Would you also like and it’s like, you know, Ladens’ genie is like rolling out the transcript of possible wishes.

08:58 – 09:00
I was like, would you also like any of these options?

09:01 – 09:08
So our last one, definitely felt very rushed at the end trying to get everything.

09:09 – 09:15
I have my new contract already signed now for next year. So start early, and ask ask.

09:16 – 09:22
My, my favorite thing was in meeting with Deb who was my connection for contracting, you know, she’s like, well tell me what

09:22 – 09:27
you would like, and then my, I would answer her back and go, what else should I be asking for?

09:28 – 09:30
What else are their options for me?

09:30 – 09:31
Beautiful question.

09:32 – 09:35
Yeah. Because they’re gonna tell you. Right?

09:35 – 09:37
This is this is what they do day in and day out.

09:37 – 09:45
So don’t limit yourself to what you think is possible because it’s Disney. Right? They’re gonna it’s it’s the TARDIS. It’s bigger on the inside.

09:45 – 09:49
As soon as you open the door, you have so many more options.

09:50 – 09:57
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s really interesting because recently there’s been this this trend or this theme in some of my sessions

09:57 – 10:01
where we talk about the difference between ask culture and guest culture.

10:01 – 10:03
Have you heard of this? Oh, interesting. No.

10:04 – 10:05
I agree.

10:05 – 10:05
Now that you say it.

10:05 – 10:06
You’ve there you go.

10:06 – 10:08
I mean, it it’s it’s making sense.

10:09 – 10:16
Yeah. Yeah. So, some people who have been raised in guest culture, and usually the demographics of individuals raised in this

10:16 – 10:21
culture are people in collectivist cultures or lower socioeconomic status Mhmm.

10:21 – 10:26
Or had, households where, we had to guess emotions.

10:26 – 10:31
So what that does is that means that we guess the answer.

10:31 – 10:36
So I won’t ask my friend to take me to the airport if I don’t think that they’ll say yes.

10:37 – 10:43
Or I won’t, ask my parents if I can spend the night at someone’s house if I think they’re in a bad mood.

10:43 – 10:44
That’s the one.

10:45 – 10:45
Okay.

10:46 – 10:56
And people who have been raised in ask culture, they don’t even socialize to believe that, someone will say no, then it’s not a burden to even ask. Mhmm.

10:56 – 11:03
And that, when they’re saying yes, it’s because that they they genuinely have thought about it.

11:03 – 11:05
You don’t have to think about it for them.

11:05 – 11:06
Okay, interesting.

11:06 – 11:13
And so I could see myself as someone who was raised in guest culture because I was, you know, in a lower socioeconomic status

11:13 – 11:21
with just 1 parent household to 1 income household and, you know, living in a collectivist culture, like, ‘Okay, I believe Disney will say yes to this.

11:21 – 11:25
So I will only ask this and nothing more.

11:25 – 11:32
And here you are giving us a question that someone who’s in guest culture could use. What should I be asking? Right?

11:32 – 11:35
Because, I mean, the assumption is that they’ll answer that question.

11:35 – 11:38
But it isn’t a big ask of an ask.

11:39 – 11:49
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly what. And that, you know, I I would say I probably did not, I did not come from a guest culture background.

11:49 – 11:58
And only owning my privilege and owning that I am a white cishetero presenting female, that a lot of assumptions are made. Right?

11:58 – 12:03
And so I’m still very new at this part of my professional career.

12:04 – 12:13
I don’t know these answers, even though I can say, you know, I’ve planned, you know, 15 local events in my lifetime. Disney’s another level.

12:13 – 12:16
And each time I do something, right, we learn.

12:16 – 12:23
And one of the things I quickly learned was they know more than you know, and they don’t know what I don’t know.

12:24 – 12:24
Right.

12:24 – 12:30
So just ask them. Just ask them. Like, what should I be asking? What should I know about?

12:30 – 12:32
What are the options that maybe I have not considered?

12:33 – 12:41
And that’s true for event planning, that’s true for almost any experience when you go in novously and kind of renew. Right?

12:41 – 12:47
Whether that’s, being invited to write an article, whether that’s being invited to come to a podcast. Right?

12:47 – 12:50
Like, what, what should I be asking?

12:50 – 12:53
What don’t I know that you think maybe I should know?

12:53 – 12:54
What, what do I need to know?

12:54 – 12:56
What, what have I not been informed about?

12:56 – 13:03
I think that is a wonderful way to step into curiosity and says that you don’t have to know.

13:03 – 13:06
And I think that even keys back to like that imposter syndrome.

13:06 – 13:13
Like we feel like, again, we should know that guessing, I probably should already be at this level to even be allowed.

13:13 – 13:21
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Like who, what audacity did I have to think that I could pull off an event planning at Disney?

13:23 – 13:30
Right, I was like no, like and like what’s the worst that’s gonna happen? Right?

13:30 – 13:35
If we don’t ask, I’m gonna miss out, and the people coming are gonna miss out.

13:35 – 13:39
The worst that’s gonna happen is they’re gonna tell me, oh Maria, that’s that’s too far.

13:39 – 13:41
No, that’s not that’s not a possibility.

13:41 – 13:42
So it’s too close to the sun.

13:42 – 13:48
Right? Yeah. Absolutely. And contracting with them again for this next one, I already had.

13:48 – 13:52
So here’s my next question, like, list of questions now that I’ve done it once. Right?

13:53 – 13:58
I was wondering if these things are possible, and and some of them are like, yeah. Absolutely.

13:58 – 14:01
And others were like, oh, we’ve never had that question asked before.

14:02 – 14:07
Let me go look into it and maybe it’s a no, but maybe it’s a yes.

14:07 – 14:15
Yeah. Why not ask? I think as you were both were talking, when we’re thinking of Disneyland and Play, we always talk about

14:15 – 14:17
how we’re going back to our childhood, right?

14:17 – 14:23
And when I’m thinking about younger kids versus older kids in, like, middle school, when you’re in a class full of younger

14:23 – 14:29
kids, you’re constantly getting questions, rapid fire questions because they won’t stop. They’re curious about everything.

14:30 – 14:36
But if you realize as you get into upper education, the questions lessen because everyone’s too shy, or they’re just trying

14:36 – 14:38
to guess, or they already have their presumptions.

14:38 – 14:46
And so I think it’s very interesting that we’re kind of going back into play and thinking of play and thinking like a child and saying, hey.

14:46 – 14:54
If I were a 6 year old wanting to play at the parks, and they have one goal is to do play at the parks with their friends,

14:54 – 14:59
they would ask the questions necessary in order to make that happen. Where can I play?

14:59 – 15:01
I mean, even not even what would I wear?

15:01 – 15:03
I don’t think a 6 year old would ask what would I wear?

15:03 – 15:05
I’m just gonna wear whatever I want to wear. But

15:05 – 15:09
But I think like, like, when I see 6 year olds, can I touch that?

15:09 – 15:12
And it’s like, as an adult, it’s like, no, don’t even ask. But it’s

15:12 – 15:13
like, maybe.

15:15 – 15:19
Yeah. Can I climb that? Or my body is asking you because I’m already doing it.

15:19 – 15:23
So are you gonna tell me no, or you’re just gonna let me do this?

15:23 – 15:25
So, yeah, I think it’s really interesting.

15:25 – 15:31
You know, as we get older, we ask less questions because we are so much more presumptuous as to what the answer is.

15:31 – 15:37
But in reality, we can ask the more complex questions to get a more direct answer.

15:38 – 15:42
So it’s kind of just doing that little switch, and it’ll benefit us.

15:42 – 15:47
I mean, look at what fruitful things came from the play therapy conference.

15:47 – 15:53
I mean, everybody I met was just having the time of their lives, and it was so great. I loved it.

15:53 – 16:01
I think going back to like, why we don’t ask the questions, I think there also is this, like, I’m supposed to already know, Right?

16:01 – 16:06
Like, if I reach out to Disney to host an event there, I should already somehow magically know

16:06 – 16:06
Yeah.

16:07 – 16:11
All the ins and outs and pieces. And how to right?

16:11 – 16:17
And, like, how to read how to read a 68 page contract and know what I am signing my life way to.

16:17 – 16:23
And so being able to be very vulnerable and open and being like, this is a giant leap for me.

16:24 – 16:27
Can we kind of talk through these things?

16:27 – 16:35
Here are the questions I have, but also, like, what am I not asking that maybe, like, the other players who’ve done this before have asked and was helpful?

16:35 – 16:46
With the and shifting just a little bit, you have on the new form, and you did in the original form for people who are signing up, request for accommodations.

16:47 – 16:50
And I know that you’re doing a presentation in Virginia on dynamic disabilities.

16:50 – 16:58
So I was wondering if you could talk about accommodations, disabilities, and what that was like for with Disney, like for the conference. Sure. Yeah.

16:58 – 17:01
Yeah, absolutely. I’m happy you talked about this.

17:01 – 17:08
I will share my definition and kind of use of the term dynamic disabilities, and we can kind of go from there.

17:08 – 17:20
So I use the term dynamic disabilities really to be an umbrella term of, health issues, mental health, physical health issues that are often invisible.

17:20 – 17:26
So there’s not like a visible outward sign. The dynamic piece comes from it. It fluctuates.

17:26 – 17:33
The impact, the intensity, my ability to function fluctuates without cause or without notice.

17:33 – 17:42
When it comes to a dynamic disability, I think, there’s a lot of management and there are, like, some days that are good and some days that are bad.

17:42 – 17:47
And, it is not a consistent experience.

17:47 – 17:55
And for those who have never had a disability or been disabled, sometimes the way that media presents a disability is it’s fixed.

17:56 – 17:59
It’s like one way of experiencing every single day.

18:00 – 18:03
And they don’t see a spectrum of experiences.

18:04 – 18:13
And so I think the other component with the dynamic is that, the individual themselves may not be able to predict, like, if

18:13 – 18:19
it’s, quote, unquote, a good day or a bad day, what accommodations I might need, today versus tomorrow.

18:19 – 18:29
Something else that the audience, could be aware of is, when it comes to disabilities, some people will use person first language. Some people use identity first language.

18:29 – 18:35
And so person first would be someone with a disability, because we’re putting them in front of the sentence.

18:36 – 18:41
Although some of the community has identified their disability as an identity and Mhmm.

18:41 – 18:48
Would prefer to be identified as disabled or, or by their actual disability.

18:48 – 18:55
Now, that as clinicians and I think even Stef as educators, we let the person tell us, like, which they prefer to use. Mhmm.

18:56 – 19:03
Yeah. And I think using the word dynamic is more in tune with how we live day to day, whether or not you are dealing with a disability.

19:03 – 19:05
Because not every single day is the same.

19:06 – 19:11
Not every single day we’re, waking up the same way, approaching things the same way as before.

19:11 – 19:13
We can try to get close to that.

19:13 – 19:22
But as dynamic people who are unlearning, learning things, constantly, it’s I feel more in tune to what real life is as opposed

19:22 – 19:27
to like what Ariel says, what what is projected to us through, you know, pop culture and how they portray disabilities.

19:28 – 19:33
Yeah. Absolutely. Or just the expectation that if you can do it once, you can do it every day here on out. Right?

19:33 – 19:40
And it’s like, well, that’s not real life. We’re not still art. Yeah.

19:40 – 19:44
You know, I could have could have had a rough day the day before, a bad night’s sleep the night before. Right?

19:44 – 19:48
Like, in general, I think we all live dynamic lives, and

19:48 – 19:49
it is just a nice way to

19:49 – 19:58
kind of view that. With dynamic disabilities, you know, it’s, it is becoming, at least for me, it’s becoming a real focus

19:58 – 20:04
of presenting, talking about, educating people about, I live with my own.

20:05 – 20:11
I work with wonderful professionals who are working with their own, and we are trying to navigate the systems, the best we

20:11 – 20:18
can while while while looking fine, even on some of our worst days.

20:19 – 20:19
Yeah.

20:20 – 20:28
So, yeah, so I it’s very intentional that my registration form has, you know, do you have any of these accommodations? Yes.

20:28 – 20:34
Participants could easily reach out to the Disneyland Hotel themselves and say, here, here’s what I need. Here are the accommodations. What are my options?

20:35 – 20:41
And part of my hostess persona says, I also want to know. Right?

20:41 – 20:48
Because if you made those accommodations on on the side and I’m not looped in, then I can’t also be on the lookout and and

20:48 – 20:52
making my own accommodations for you, and just being prepared.

20:53 – 21:01
Yeah. For for those things. And that’s the communication piece that is, you know, hyper focused on when you are hosting because

21:01 – 21:06
you are constantly communicating with every single person, making sure they’re okay, and that’s a really big undertaking.

21:07 – 21:14
But speaking of constants and people wanting to view a certain way or having parameters that are set, I know recently, there

21:14 – 21:21
has been changes to the Disney’s disability Access Services at Disneyland. It’s a very sticky situation.

21:21 – 21:28
I think, you know, speaking for myself and looking at it as a person that doesn’t need these accommodations, And for the folks,

21:28 – 21:37
who use acronyms, this is the DOS system that, folks with disabilities use to access the parks and enjoy their day in a way that suits them.

21:38 – 21:41
And I guess it’s a question for both, you know, Maria and Ariel as clinicians.

21:42 – 21:46
How do you think these changes have impacted visitors, have been impacting visitors?

21:47 – 21:56
And, just seeing how it is already a big undertaking to be at a very busy theme park with a lot of moving parts.

21:57 – 22:01
How do you think it affects them and even future conference attendees for you, Maria?

22:01 – 22:03
I love that. Ariel, do you wanna

22:03 – 22:07
go? No. You go ahead first. You’re our guest. Be our guest.

22:09 – 22:13
I think I think that it’s I think it’s going to continue to move. Right?

22:13 – 22:20
Like, I don’t have a full understanding that this is where it’s going to land and be permanently, you know, the new system and the new restrictions.

22:21 – 22:27
I also think it’s a really big undertaking for an organization like Disney to have to, like, navigate all of this. Right?

22:28 – 22:39
Because they do really make efforts to to put comfort and people access first, and sometimes, they have to draw a line in

22:39 – 22:44
the sand and that that then it means an exclusionary criteria. Right?

22:44 – 22:52
But if you do not have these things, do do not show up in this way, then these accommodations are not easily accessible or even available to you any longer.

22:52 – 22:59
So my own, I am definitely watching, trying to keep a pulse, trying to really understand, like, what these new limitations

23:00 – 23:08
are going to translate for, and also trying to look at it from my own perspective of, like, that that may even I I am not

23:08 – 23:18
I did not participate in the DOS, services before, but I was being kind of told, like, you should kind of consider this with your with your own physical stuff.

23:18 – 23:21
Like, this might be really, really beneficial to you.

23:21 – 23:27
And so to just start like that process and for it to then immediately change and like, oh, I don’t think I know, I don’t think

23:27 – 23:33
I qualify any longer based on these new limitations, and restrictions, and requirements.

23:35 – 23:43
So right now, I’m still in the learning, learning the new dance, so to speak, and then being able to get an understanding

23:43 – 23:49
so that I can then translate it to people who are coming and who might have questions about what the new restrictions and limitations are.

23:50 – 23:55
Yeah. I think you point out something very important. This is changing. It is evolving.

23:55 – 24:04
So, even by the release of probably this episode, there may be new updates but what we do know is that Disney did release,

24:04 – 24:08
well, first that it the new, criteria started in May.

24:09 – 24:17
And that Disney released a list of, like, diagnoses that they, I guess, felt were more that needed more of the accommodation of the DOS program.

24:17 – 24:21
And, those diagnoses were ADHD, anxiety and autism.

24:21 – 24:30
So the community had already, been on the alert because, of the fact that it was like these and these only.

24:30 – 24:34
Then they they specifically said developmental or cognitive disabilities.

24:35 – 24:40
And that then would exclude individuals who need accommodations that are physical.

24:41 – 24:48
And then as things started rolling out, it was the fact that there was a pre registration process, and you have to do it 30 days before your visit.

24:48 – 24:54
They are no longer allowing, I think, in June for people to go into the city hall

24:54 – 24:55
to have the conversation. Okay.

24:56 – 25:03
So, that means that you have to have a plan to attend, later.

25:03 – 25:09
And if you are somebody who’s a magic key holder that could go anytime, you would have had to already have this set up.

25:09 – 25:12
The the praises are that it has extended

25:12 – 25:14
the amount of of having

25:14 – 25:17
it. Instead of 60 days, it’s 120 days. Right?

25:17 – 25:25
Once you if you are approved, the and that, there is more scrutiny happening because what the result of this was backlash

25:26 – 25:34
to influencers saying like, Hey, if you don’t want to pay for Genie plus and you want to skip the line, here’s the things you need to say. And

25:34 – 25:35
the hacks, essentially.

25:36 – 25:44
The hacks as it was presented, which meant that it adversely affected people who needed accommodation because of a disability.

25:44 – 25:52
Other things that have been, like, criticisms are the fact that, they are encouraging more people to use, like, someone to

25:52 – 25:54
hold a spot in line and you leave and return. Mhmm.

25:55 – 25:59
And if you are somebody who’s a wheelchair user, your spot in line might not be reversible.

25:59 – 26:05
You might not be able to back your wheelchair through or like with people standing there, right?

26:05 – 26:10
So there needs to be a space for your chair to go backwards or or whip around.

26:10 – 26:17
So that would need to be wide enough space as well as move through lines of people. Yeah.

26:17 – 26:26
And, other criticisms like people have already been sharing their stories where if they’re taking medication, for specifically

26:26 – 26:32
those who are experiencing cancer, if they’re taking medication that causes, like, a diuretic and they need to use the bathroom

26:32 – 26:42
repeatedly, having to leave their spot in line and find the bathroom maybe further away than if they had not had to be in the queue.

26:42 – 26:52
So where it pertains to me, because I have been using the DOS program, is that mine ended on, May 4th. Interesting.

26:53 – 26:55
Why would you have to end it on a day that

26:55 – 26:56
mattered to me? But okay, thanks.

26:56 – 27:07
And I have tried at least 5 times to get into the virtual queue to do my interview. The ads has cut out. It has the call has dropped.

27:07 – 27:10
I’ve never seen anyone on the video. Never.

27:10 – 27:15
All the calls are being transferred, I think, to, Florida representatives at Walt Disney World.

27:15 – 27:17
So, like, Disneyland doesn’t have their own.

27:17 – 27:26
And when they had changed the accommodations at Universal Studios, they had asked that you, like, upload documentation.

27:26 – 27:33
And so I did add my doctor upload documentation that requested my accommodations, and their system was clunky, and there’s,

27:33 – 27:34
like, a number you’re supposed to get.

27:34 – 27:37
It took a couple months, but, you know, now it’s good.

27:37 – 27:40
Disney will not take any doctor’s notes.

27:40 – 27:45
They will not take any, and it’s already hard to get a doctor note, but they won’t take any of that. It’s in the interview.

27:46 – 27:52
And the way that they ask the questions, they will they will say things like, well, if you get hot, you should get an ice

27:52 – 27:54
pack or you should get a cooling rag.

27:54 – 27:59
If you, need to use the bathroom repeatedly, you should just leave the line and come back.

27:59 – 28:02
Tell the person at the front that, you know, you’re leaving to do that.

28:02 – 28:04
And they’re trying to create a ticket system,

28:05 – 28:05
but

28:05 – 28:12
that hasn’t been fully implemented. So now hearing this and knowing dynamic disabilities, are you seeing where the clunkiness Yeah.

28:13 – 28:16
When Disney was the gold standard for accommodations? Yeah.

28:16 – 28:22
Yeah. Yeah. What a what a significant difference. Right?

28:22 – 28:26
I mean, you were sharing all that, and I was like, have they been to a park recently?

28:26 – 28:33
And, like, also, like, what ableist thinking are you harboring right there?

28:34 – 28:42
Right? 1, you know, I my experience in the parks, I’ve been with other people, my family, my spouse at least. Right? Like at least one other person.

28:42 – 28:48
The system that they’re encouraging would require you to you would always have to be with someone if you were to like because

28:48 – 28:54
strangers are lovely at times, but we’ve all seen those videos of, you know, Disney gone wrong. Mhmm.

28:54 – 28:55
The person, the stranger behind me

28:55 – 29:07
is not gonna stand there and hold my spot in line so that I can step out, take my insulin shot, and do what I need to do to, like, be able to come back. Like, that’s just not gonna happen. It’s not gonna happen.

29:07 – 29:16
And you’re basing this one other non medical professional is going to interview me and make the decision based on their own

29:16 – 29:23
personal opinion of my condition, whether or not I qualify for accommodation.

29:24 – 29:27
And the what, communities are saying, try again.

29:27 – 29:32
They’re like, the first person says no, try again, because the next person might say yes.

29:32 – 29:34
And that shows you lack of consistency with criteria.

29:35 – 29:35
Right?

29:36 – 29:37
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

29:37 – 29:38
As I was hearing

29:38 – 29:40
all this, I’m like, who what are

29:40 – 29:43
the qualifications to be somebody who’s taking these calls?

29:44 – 29:46
Is it somebody who has experienced these?

29:46 – 29:53
Do they have some sort of licensing or had to have they had any sort of, experience in dealing with that?

29:53 – 29:58
And if it’s a Florida representative, the parks over there are massive. They’re huge.

29:59 – 30:06
And, you know, I get that Disneyland is compact here, but Disney world, if you’re thinking of the different parks, there’s

30:06 – 30:09
so many other elements that are working against you.

30:09 – 30:17
Literally weather elements that could really, you know, stop a person with disabilities from enjoying the parks in the way that they want to.

30:17 – 30:24
So I think it this is just kind of, you know, when we’re talking about hospitality and the just the juxtaposition of how we

30:24 – 30:29
were talking about it earlier to now, the consistency isn’t there. And, you know,

30:29 – 30:30
we need to we

30:30 – 30:32
need to know and do better.

30:32 – 30:41
Yeah. I I think, one of the, things that we’ve seen online, specifically people with epilepsy and people with POTS, have been denied.

30:41 – 30:45
And they have complained that there is no way that they could do the return to Lyme.

30:45 – 30:52
And and again, the the individuals with POTS, they they can’t stay on for, long periods of time.

30:53 – 30:56
And so the statement was when you could use a wheelchair.

30:56 – 31:03
But again, if you need to use the bathroom, can your wheelchair go backwards in the queue? And, the queue moves.

31:03 – 31:07
So by the time you come back, you have new people in the queue are going, Why are you cutting us?

31:07 – 31:08
Why are you walking through?

31:08 – 31:12
Why why are you rolling through in in this wheelchair? Like, what what is this?

31:12 – 31:16
Because I certainly know that, people get so angry when you have a

31:16 – 31:23
line holder. Gosh. Do they ever? Even So I mean, our first experience taking the kids, they were littles. Right?

31:23 – 31:26
And so, like, one parent would Stef, the other parent would, like, run to the bathroom and come back.

31:26 – 31:30
Even then, right, you’d get, like, looks. I’m like, look. They are little.

31:30 – 31:31
They’re, like, 4 and 6 at that time.

31:31 – 31:34
Like, we are not we are not doing that.

31:35 – 31:44
And those of us with disabilities, like, we all carry our own, like, shame and awareness that everyone is talking about us. Everyone is making comments about this.

31:44 – 31:51
I go to the park with everything that I could possibly bring in with me to make sure I’m as least disruptive to everybody

31:51 – 31:57
else around me and can have my day in the best way that I can for myself.

31:57 – 32:07
And how utterly disgusting is it that the response is, we’ll bring an ice pack. I’m Oh, yeah. Sorry. We have our cooling racks. We have our fans. We have our drinks.

32:07 – 32:13
We we we do all the things to make sure that not only I’ll speak for myself.

32:13 – 32:15
It’s not just for so that I can have the best day possible.

32:15 – 32:22
It really is so that I minimize my impact on everybody else around me, which is a weight I should not be carrying in the first place.

32:22 – 32:35
But I do, and then to even then say, well I still need some accommodation. And to be like, well no. You can have a wheelchair. It’s not that’s not a solution. That’s not a solution.

32:35 – 32:42
No. I I really, I think you’re highlighting, like, that lived experience because I know for myself, first, it took a while

32:42 – 32:47
to even admit that I needed accommodations because I said I can bring all of these things. Right?

32:47 – 32:51
I can have my neck fit on. I can, bring extra medication. I can bring my EpiPen.

32:51 – 32:53
Like, I can I can do all that? I can do all that.

32:53 – 32:59
When it got to the point to admit that I needed accommodations, It was again, like, that imposture center.

33:00 – 33:02
Maybe I don’t or maybe other people need them more.

33:02 – 33:06
That that feeling of inconveniencing the able-bodied world.

33:07 – 33:07
Right.

33:08 – 33:13
And, and I know even for, for you Stef, because we’re talking about dynamic disabilities, pregnancy.

33:13 – 33:21
My goodness. Yeah. And, you know, it was funny because I did many things in my second pregnancy because my first pregnancy,

33:21 – 33:25
half of it was during the pandemic. So did nothing. I stayed at my house.

33:26 – 33:27
I didn’t have to experience these things.

33:27 – 33:34
But my second pregnancy being after the pandemic, I’m like, let me do it all. I need to be out there.

33:34 – 33:39
But my body was like, you are not the same as you were before the world shut down.

33:39 – 33:46
And even navigating I know this isn’t a park, but, when we went to Comic Con while I was 6 months pregnant Oh, sure.

33:46 – 33:53
I didn’t even think of accommodations for myself because I was like, I am just carrying a baby.

33:54 – 33:58
But that’s not how it should be viewed. I am carrying a baby.

33:58 – 34:12
I am literally growing a life inside of me, and I cannot do the things that other able-bodied people can do because I am literally not myself. I my body is exhausted. And

34:19 – 34:26
I should have And I should have accommodations so that I can do that comfortably without harming my body.

34:26 – 34:29
You know, thankfully, I was in a position where I didn’t have a high risk pregnancy.

34:30 – 34:37
But for other women who have high risk pregnancies, I don’t think they should be stopped from doing what they want to do comfortably

34:38 – 34:42
just because they are, you know, gonna be a mother.

34:42 – 34:51
And, you know, there has been so many stigmas with pregnant women and what they shouldn’t do, what they can’t do, all of these things.

34:51 – 35:01
And that totally plays into their mental well-being as their hormones are changing, as their brains are, you know, preparing

35:01 – 35:03
for this as they’re growing a life inside of them.

35:04 – 35:08
So I don’t recall being in Florida.

35:08 – 35:17
Actually, I was early on in my pregnancy, and there were some accommodations, and I had traveled with my parents who have disabilities.

35:17 – 35:22
You know, my mom gets tired really fast and, you know, she can’t be walking for a long time.

35:22 – 35:28
And my father has, he has had a kidney transplant. So he has He’s got

35:28 – 35:29
a million.

35:29 – 35:33
Yeah. He has, like, so many inside of him. He’s had many transplants.

35:33 – 35:41
And so, yeah, we were able to use a wheelchair for the both of them, but then it became an access issue where we were like,

35:41 – 35:52
do we pay for a more expensive wheelchair for all 4 days at the parks, or do we use a manual wheelchair where one of us would have to push?

35:53 – 36:03
And by one of us is my husband who is taking care of our toddler, me who is pregnant, or my mom who is not very strong in

36:03 – 36:06
her age to push my father in the wheelchair.

36:06 – 36:16
So now it becomes a social economic thing To where now the family has to decide, do I have dinner at Be Our Guest, or do I

36:16 – 36:19
use that money to pay for a wheelchair?

36:19 – 36:24
And, you know, those are really difficult decisions for families to make. It’s just Yeah.

36:25 – 36:26
Just to have a good day at the park.

36:26 – 36:34
Absolutely. I mean, it’s an expense and it’s such a plan heavy experience anyway. Right?

36:34 – 36:40
And then, yeah, do you try to play the wheelchair lottery and, like, be super early to be, like, the first one in to get one

36:40 – 36:44
that’s provided in the parks that you still have to pay for? Mhmm.

36:44 – 36:50
Or do you search for outside ones that can then be brought to you and pay for, you know, slightly more, but have your own

36:50 – 36:59
like, it’s, life is difficult enough for able-bodied individuals, let alone when those of us that, have disabilities of any

36:59 – 37:05
type, visible or invisible, to then just be like, well, you can just Yeah. Get a wheelchair.

37:05 – 37:08
You can just bring some ice packs.

37:08 – 37:16
You can just, you know, have someone else save your spot in line. Yeah. Yeah. That’s not real life. And if you jump through

37:16 – 37:23
if you jump through all of those hoops anyway, you still get to a ride like Peter Pan’s flight and say, we don’t use that accommodation here.

37:24 – 37:32
You have to use the regular line because this is an attraction that is excluded from those accommodations because it’s so popular.

37:32 – 37:37
So even if you do all of those things, you still have those restrictions.

37:37 – 37:37
And Mhmm.

37:37 – 37:40
You know, what if that was your favorite ride?

37:40 – 37:42
And what if that’s something that you absolutely wanted to do?

37:42 – 37:48
And now you have that sense of I’m not good enough to be on this ride. You know?

37:48 – 37:56
Your mind immediately goes to that because, as you said, folks with dealing, having to deal with these things are hyper aware already.

37:56 – 37:59
And so how can they not go to there?

37:59 – 38:00
Right. And I think when

38:00 – 38:08
it comes to, individuals who are non disabled, who haven’t experienced a disability, Why it’s important to continue to be

38:08 – 38:16
an advocate for disability rights, is because a lot of the disabled communities identified that technically we’re all pre disabled.

38:16 – 38:24
We are living so long now that at some point, we will develop a disability, like being hard of hearing, a disability of low

38:24 – 38:27
vision, a disability with walking and arthritis.

38:28 – 38:36
So the more that we fight for accommodations now and advocacy, the more we’re setting up our future success as well.

38:36 – 38:43
I think we’ve already identified the various ways in which the system, as it stands right now, is flawed.

38:43 – 38:46
And although, again, it’s like you said, a meno. We’re a little meno.

38:47 – 38:56
I hope that others can hear this podcast and see, like, why the accommodations the way they were may have been flawed, but we’re still a lot better. Mhmm.

38:56 – 39:05
Even with that 30 day rule, I it makes me think of Stef when we had, Comic Con and we had a panel and one of our panelists broke their leg. Did you?

39:05 – 39:10
And we had to scramble to get them a, ramp to be able to go on the stage. Yeah.

39:10 – 39:17
You know, hopefully, between now and your trip, you don’t develop something where you might wanna request those accommodations

39:18 – 39:20
because you should have been injured 30 days ago.

39:20 – 39:24
You should have known. You should have known you were going to break your leg.

39:24 – 39:29
Or like 1 Comic Con, I broke my wrist the day of Comic Con.

39:30 – 39:34
I had an accident on a bird scooter and the rest was history.

39:35 – 39:37
It was my arm, so I could still walk.

39:38 – 39:45
But even Ariel that day was like, you need to get it to Staple Press because you literally got hurt on the way to Comic Con.

39:45 – 39:49
And, yeah, that’s just something that I did not even think about.

39:50 – 39:55
I think going full circle in what we’re talking about earlier, why not ask? Just ask.

39:55 – 39:56
Just ask.

39:56 – 39:59
Because what is the worst that could happen? You know? Mhmm. You’ll get denied.

40:00 – 40:03
And in the case of the DOS system, keep asking. Yes.

40:03 – 40:09
If you are somebody who is, you know, affected by these policy changes, keep asking.

40:09 – 40:15
Let them know that what is happening is not, it’s just not flexible for everyone.

40:16 – 40:20
It’s not equitable for everyone because now everything is so nuanced.

40:20 – 40:28
We are having dynamic disabilities, dynamic, you know, experiences, and that if they want to continue to be the hospitality

40:28 – 40:35
gold standard, that, you know, every voice that leads needs to be heard and even though it is such a big undertaking.

40:35 – 40:43
I mean, that’s not to say that there are not people who are willing to work for, you know, equity in this space. Absolutely.

40:44 – 40:48
Absolutely. I mean, we’re very used to jumping through the hoops put in front of us. Mhmm.

40:48 – 40:54
As long as we know that there are hoops to be jumped through and that there’s a possible, like, relief on the other side.

40:55 – 40:56
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

40:56 – 41:03
Now, I know, you were on an episode with us originally, episode 35, unlocking the healing powers of play.

41:03 – 41:06
And your conference at Disney was a play conference.

41:06 – 41:13
In having this conversation around disabilities and accommodations, what are some play based interventions for children and

41:13 – 41:23
adults with disabilities or accommodations to shift and change your mindset so that you can have play based interventions that are more dynamic? I love that.

41:23 – 41:29
I would go so far as I don’t know that there are specific interventions, but people in our professions to start adapting,

41:29 – 41:34
which is just kind of the this ableist lens, right?

41:34 – 41:38
So in play therapy, well in play in general, right?

41:38 – 41:43
When we talk about playing with kids, whether you’re a babysitter, whether you’re a teacher, whether you’re whether you’re

41:43 – 41:54
a play therapist, the idea I’ve I’ve heard clinicians tell this to parents that come in, like, get on the floor and play with your kids. Guess what? No. No.

41:55 – 42:01
And so being able to just adopt this lens of it’s okay to not play on the floor.

42:02 – 42:08
Play that’s on a table, play that is movement based, play that it looks different is still valuable.

42:08 – 42:14
There’s no difference in the value of play based on how you’re playing. Mhmm.

42:15 – 42:22
And we can set those accommodations for ourselves as practitioners, as educators, as the professional in the room, and we

42:22 – 42:29
can make those accommodations for the parents and the children that come into our rooms. 8, because I think there is this

42:29 – 42:39
idea that if you’re not able to get down on the floor and plan, and you’re not doing your job, and that is such an ableist viewpoint. Right?

42:39 – 42:46
Because, I mean, I could get down, but I’m gonna do some significant trauma to my client if they have to see me, like, flail

42:46 – 42:51
around on the floor because I cannot get back up. That is more damaging than helpful.

42:53 – 42:56
And it’s just diminishing my value as a practitioner.

42:57 – 43:05
If I can’t do it your way, then it’s not valued. We’re not doing that. It is 2024. We’re not doing that anymore. Right?

43:05 – 43:15
And so being able to look at play, families, kids in a lens of what accommodations do you need? Mhmm.

43:15 – 43:20
And and what can I provide to you knowing that, like, our space is limited, our funding is limited?

43:20 – 43:24
But like sometimes it’s just permission to not get on the floor.

43:24 – 43:29
Just permission to be able to say, I would much rather like, can I stand while we talk?

43:29 – 43:37
Because that’s much more comfortable than than sitting in this chair. Right? I was talking earlier today.

43:37 – 43:42
I think we’re making great strides in terms of accommodating children. Right?

43:42 – 43:45
There’s lots of fidgets now and hard candies and, like, body socks. Right?

43:45 – 43:50
Like, we’re making accommodations for kids with sensory needs and neurodiverse needs.

43:51 – 43:56
That needs to be extended to adults and professionals as well. Right?

43:57 – 44:02
I know in our conference, even at Disney, there were times where, you know, you’d see people stand up and, like, move to the

44:02 – 44:09
back of the room to, like, have some movement in their day and, like, you know, stretch the bodies however they needed to. Right? And just like permission giving. Right?

44:09 – 44:14
Like, do what you need to to take care of yourself. Right? It’s it’s so, so important.

44:15 – 44:22
It goes back to, like, you know, even Ariel, what what you’re saying is, like, it takes us a long time to even be honest about what we need ourselves.

44:22 – 44:23
Yes.

44:23 – 44:29
Right? And so even just opening the door of, like, this is my typical room setup, but if it would be more helpful for you

44:29 – 44:36
or more comfortable for you, you know, I have this other seating option, or we could go outside and walk around, or we could stand.

44:36 – 44:43
It was just kind of opening the door because often we’re not honest with ourselves about what we need or what would be helpful, right?

44:43 – 44:48
We’re, we’re so used to like gridding it and just getting through, not being a burden to anybody else.

44:49 – 44:56
So putting on that lens and then just opening the door of, like, you know, I have giant fluorescent lights on, but I can also

44:56 – 44:57
turn them off and turn on lamps.

44:58 – 45:02
And I’ll have that set up and have a kid come in and say, why is it so dark in here?

45:02 – 45:04
I can turn on the bright lights, right?

45:04 – 45:10
Like, kids kids have much less shame of asking for what they need and what they want than themselves do.

45:11 – 45:13
Along the way, it is beaten out of us.

45:13 – 45:19
And so part of this is just an invitation to, like, you know, if there is something that I can do within my space to make

45:19 – 45:23
this an easier situation and a better learning experience for you, please let me know.

45:23 – 45:25
And if it’s in my power, I’m gonna I’m gonna do that.

45:26 – 45:30
And extending that that grace and kindness to ourselves as professionals.

45:31 – 45:35
You know, if I’m presenting all day, I don’t wanna stand for 8 hours.

45:35 – 45:38
My body, if I do that, and I could do that. Right?

45:38 – 45:43
Like, I could push myself to do that thing for you, and then I’m gonna spend 2 days in recovery. Mhmm.