The Independent Creator's Playbook

Charli Prangley is a designer by day and a content creator by... well, pretty much the rest of the time. In addition to her day job, she produces two high-quality Youtube videos and a podcast every week, and also runs an online apparel shop. I was so impressed with the consistency and quality of her output that I knew I had to get her on the show to share how she creates so much while still working a full-time job.

If you've ever struggled with creating consistently or trying to get everything 100% perfect before shipping, you need to listen to this episode.

Aaron: It seems like you’re constantly putting out content. I always see you tweeting about editing vlogs or your latest podcast episode. You post two videos to your YouTube channel every week in addition to your weekly podcast, Design Life. How do you manage to create so much while still working a full time job?

Charli: When you create a lot of content online (like I do), everything in your life becomes an opportunity to create content and tell a story. If I go to an event, I think about what I’m going to learn that I can share with other people. This provides a constant stream of ideas that I can share in my videos or podcast episodes.

Aaron: So you put a lot of content out consistently, and you’re seeing results; you’re almost to 25,000 subscribers on Youtube. Can you take us back to the beginning and share how and why you got started?

Charli: I started my Youtube channel back in 2013 because I wanted to see into the lives of other designers, but I wasn’t finding the kind of content I was looking for. There were a lot of tutorials, but I wanted to get to know the people behind those tutorials.

I decided to start my own YouTube channel so I could create lifestyle content from the perspective of a designer. Other designers discovered my channel because they were looking for the same thing. Having that unique point of view from the start really helped my channel grow.

Aaron: So you made the show you wanted to watch, and it turned out that there are a lot of other people who wanted that show as well?

Charli: Exactly. I try to think about what I would have found valuable in my early days of getting started as a designer, and then I create that content. It’s really rewarding when I hear from young designers who tell me how my content is helping them.

Aaron: What kind of gear were you using when you started back in 2013?

Charli: When I first started, I was using a Nikon D5000. It’s a DLSR but it can only record video for 5 minutes at a time and only in 720p. It didn’t have a flip-out screen or auto-focus in video mode, so there were a lot of challenges to overcome to get my video content made, but I stuck with it. It was about a year before I could afford an upgrade.

Aaron: I started a video show recently, and I’ve been using my iPhone and a Shure MV88 mic, and I’ve already got better gear than you had (because I’ve got the front-facing screen to see myself). With smart phone cameras being as good as they are now, anyone can shoot video. What did you end up upgrading to?

Charli: I got a Canon 70d which I really like. It’s a great all around camera for the price.

You don’t have to have the best camera or microphone to get started. Use what you have or what you can afford, and upgrade later.

Aaron: When you started producing video, did you have any kind of online following?

Charli: Not really. I think I had around 1,000 followers on Twitter because I was pretty active in my design and tech scene in Wellington, NZ, so I suppose that’s where my first views came from.

Aaron: Did you have a strategy for growing your audience?

Charli: I knew a little bit about search engine optimization (because I was doing it at my job), so I thought about how I could apply that to my videos, but it was mostly trial-and-error. I paid attention to what worked, what thumbnails people preferred and what content they were interested in. But something I’ve done from the start was to make sure my videos were tagged well so that they come up in search. Today, about half of my views come from people searching YouTube. Don’t underestimate the value of SEO.

Aaron: SEO is important. The way I like to explain it is just think about what people would search Google or Youtube for, and then use those words in your podcast or video title, or in headlines on your blog post. There’s a lot more to it than that, but that’s a great place to start.

Jordan Newhouse asks: I produce new content every week. How do I get people to realize the content is there and get them to check it out?

Charli: Start by looping in all of your social media to the content you’re creating. You don’t want to be talking about yourself non-stop online, that’s not the way to have an interesting account.

If you want someone to invest time in what you’re creating, show them a little bit of your personality but make sure you share content they’d be interested in.

You have to share your content more than once. You can’t send out a tweet and expect everyone to notice. Some people might not be paying attention or they might be half-asleep; you have to share it anywhere and everywhere you can, in different ways. Try different titles to see what works.

I create so much content so often that by the time I’m finished with a video, I’m already thinking about the next one, but I should be thinking about how to best promote the video I just made.

Aaron: I used to feel weird about sharing links to my content more than once. I used to think people would be annoyed if they saw me post multiple links to content. I finally realized that most people just aren’t paying that close of attention to their social media streams.

Sometimes you do have to “beat people over the head” to get them to check out a link. You might have to post a link multiple times in a week before someone actually sees it and clicks on it.

Charli: One of the best ways to promote your content is in response to questions you see your audience asking. If one of your followers is discussing a topic you covered on your podcast, send them a link to that episode if you think they’d find it valuable.

Aaron: I love doing that. Some of the podcasters I follow have their own hashtags, so I’ll use Twitter search to find people who are asking podcasting questions and send them links to my episodes where I answered their questions. If someone wants to learn, you would be doing them a disservice by not sending them a link to your content if it answers their question or would help them in some way.

Aaron: I talk a lot about the importance of participating in your community, inviting guests on your podcast and collaborating with other people. You participate in an active Youtube community, right?

Charli: That’s something I love about Youtube, there’s a very active community there. Everyone’s very collaborative, it’s easy to create video with other people and combine your audiences.

Look for communities and people to collaborate and work with. It’s a great way to share and grow audiences.

Aaron: You started a podcast recently. Did you find it easier since you’ve been creating video for a couple years?

Charli: There was definitely a learning curve, just like getting started with video. There were all these new things to learn like what kind of microphone to buy, how to record and edit, and how to get your show into iTunes. It seems like it should be easy, just hit record and make a podcast, but it’s really not that simple.

Aaron: One of my friends wants to start a podcast, but he wants to get everything perfect right away. That’s just not how it works; you have to be willing to jump in and create something, give yourself a deadline, and ship it. Otherwise you’re going to be talking forever about how you want to do something but you’ll never actually finish anything. You have to be ok with not being awesome at something for awhile. You’ll get better over time.

Charli: That’s really the key to producing content consistently; get used to not being perfect and learn as you go. You could wait until you know everything and get everything absolutely perfect, but then you wasted time you could have been building the habit of producing content.

If you want to be successful in video or podcasting, make creating content a habit and not just something you do when you have “free time”.

Charli: People ask me, “You’ve put out a video every Saturday for two and a half years, how do you do it?” I don’t even think about it anymore; it’s non-negotiable. A video will go up every Saturday because it’s just a habit.

Aaron: Do you find yourself getting faster and more efficient as time goes on?

Charli: Definitely, but you don’t want to settle in a rut. Your audience will get bored if they see the same thing every week. When things are getting too easy, that’s when I try to learn something new to add to my process.

Aaron: We got another question from Jordan. She asked, “I’m about to make my very first video ever (it’s going to be part of my product launch). What are some things I should keep in mind?”

Charli: Think beforehand about what the content of the video is going to be so that you can get all the right shots for it. You might even want to make a storyboard.

You might end up needing to reshoot a few scenes because that’s just how it goes. You might get to the editing part and realize that you need another shot or you need to re-record something. That’s ok, it’s just part of the process.

Aaron: Do you create storyboards for your videos?

Charli: Not all the time, but sometimes, usually if I’m doing a fashion video that requires a bunch of different angles, I’ll just draw some rough sketches on a notebook to help me make sure I get all the shots.

Aaron: I saw my friend Alex Cespedes (sorry I butchered your name in the show, dude) post a really interesting picture on Instagram showing how he outlines his podcast episodes on paper. I think that’s a great way to plan a show or podcast episode.

Charli: People plan in different ways. I create a rough script or outline for my video in the notes app on my phone and that’s enough to get my mind thinking about what I’m going to say and how I need to say it.

Aaron: What are your biggest struggles with creating consistently, and how do you overcome those?

Charli: Time is always going to be a struggle. Even if you want to put something out every week, not every week is the same. In my life, I’ve got my day job, but that’s also things to do in the evenings and I travel a lot, so I have to make sure I make enough time to create a video I’m proud of. It’s always a struggle, but that’s where building the habit comes in. Planning definitely helps with the time constraint as well; I break the process down into little steps so I can get things done whenever I have time.

Don’t try to fine-tune your content to perfection; give yourself a deadline and ship it.

Aaron: One of my struggles is that there are always more projects that I want to do. I shoot myself in the foot by taking on too many things and not giving any one thing the focus it needs to be as successful as it can be. I try to do six things in a week and because I’m trying to work on all of them, I don’t make much progress on any of them.

Charli: You have to pick which thing is most important to you and make sure that one gets done. Then you can worry about the other things.

Aaron: You’ve got a co-host for your podcast. Does that help you get the show done every week? You do a lot of videos by yourself, so you’d probably be ok on your own, right?

Charli: I don’t think I would, no. I would not have a podcast if it wasn’t for my co-host Femke. Since I do two videos every week, we split up the duties so that she does the editing and I do the show notes and our newsletter. But she does a lot more work than I do, which is really helpful.

Aaron: It is really helpful to have someone hold you accountable and help you do the work that it takes to put a show out every week. Podcasting is a lot of work and there’s nothing better than having a co-host who is really invested and willing to help with the work and keep you on track with producing.

Adina asked: How do I avoid looking awkward or sounding boring on camera?

Charli: That’s a question that everyone asks and something that everyone goes through.. The answer is just practice. You’re going to make a lot of awkward videos before you start to feel comfortable.

I don’t know if I can pinpoint the exact moment where I started feeling comfortable talking to the camera, but it happened. After I made enough videos, it stopped being a weird thing. Vlogging really helped for me, just picking up the camera and talking to it as I went through my day. It felt more casual and less stressful then sitting down in front of lights to film.

Aaron: It’s the self-imposed pressure, right? We want to be as good as someone else we’ve seen. We see all these people making videos and podcasts and they always seem so fluid and cool and they’ve always got funny things to say. They’ve got 600,000 views and 300,000 likes and we think that’s the level of quality we have to achieve, but it doesn’t happen overnight. You won’t get there in the first couple tries.

Also, being a better speaker and communicator is something you can teach yourself. Unless you slow down and think critically about the way you talk and how you can improve, you won’t improve. You can improve the way you talk. You can change the way that you talk and it will start to become the natural way that you talk with practice and time.

Charli: When you first started podcasting, did you find listening to your own voice awkward?

Aaron: Definitely.

Charli: When I started making video, it was hard for me to watch and listen to myself, but now, I feel like I sound exactly like I do in my head. I don’t know what changed, but it’s not awkward anymore.

Aaron: Part of it is just getting comfortable hearing yourself on recordings. You just get used to it after awhile. But I listen back to old episodes I’ve done and there are things I don’t like about the way I sound, so I think about what I could have done differently to sound better. I try to learn from my mistakes and improve, and I have, slowly over time and with practice.

Charli: When I listen back to my first 6 months of video, I don’t sound like me; I sound like someone trying to make a video. Now I feel like I just sound like me, like I sound when I’m having a normal conversation.

Aaron: We got a followup question: What about filming in public? I feel painfully embarrassed when I shoot video in public.

I absolutely know what that feels like. I feel super weird about holding a phone or camera out and shooting a video in public. I don’t even like people seeing me taking pictures of other people or myself in public. But I’m going to let Charli talk about this since she’s gotten comfortable with recording video in public.

Charli: I still feel awkward sometimes, like if I’m going to be sitting on a train with people on the way to work, I won’t pull out my camera and talking to it. But if I’m walking down the street, I’m probably never going to see any of those people again. If I know I need to get a shot to explain something in my vlog later, then I just have to get over feeling weird and get the shot that I need. And it comes back to practice.

Aaron: And really, what’s the worst thing that could happen? Someone makes fun of you or looks at you like you’re an idiot?

Charli: Exactly, and don’t think of it as you’re talking to your phone or camera, you’re talking to the person on the other side who is watching you later. You’re not really talking to yourself, even if it looks like you are.

Aaron: Now I’m thinking about how funny it would be to make a show where you just walk around in public all day, talking to yourself and catching people looking horrified or disgusted in the background.

Charli: Even if you do feel self-conscious, do it anyway and at least you’ll have all the shots you need.

You can find Charli online at CharliMarie.com. Her Youtube channel is Charli Marie TV, and you can find her on Twitter and Instagram as well. She is also the co-host of Design Life, a fantastic podcast about design and side projects for motivated creators.

Talking music today! Where are the best places to find music for podcasts? Can you use copyrighted materials in your podcast if you keep the clip under 30 seconds? And is podcast music even necessary?

The first thing you should know is that you should not use copyrighted music in any part of your podcast unless you have permission from the rights holder. Period. It’s not ok.

Now that that’s been said, here’s my list of the best places to get music for your podcast:

Note: some of the songs on the free music sites will require you to give attribution (a link to the original author) somewhere on your website or in your show notes. Make sure you double check the requirements before using free music in your podcast and always give a link back if the usage license requires it.

Don’t use other people’s copyrighted music in your podcast unless you have permission to use it.

The only exception is if you are discussing or critiquing that piece of music. If that’s something you plan on doing regularly, you need to read up on Fair Use and get familiar with what you can and can’t do with copyrighted music or other materials.

Also, I’m not a lawyer or even an expert on fair use, so please don’t sue me for any reason at all. I’m not rich, anyways, so you wouldn’t get much.

Don’t use copyrighted music in your podcast unless you have permission from whoever holds the copyrights.

You might hear other people using copyrighted materials in their podcast, but that doesn’t make it ok. Just because they haven’t got caught or sued yet doesn’t mean they never will.

Keep your intro music short. Don’t make the music in your intro long, especially if your show starts with music. Keep it less than 10 seconds.

If you have a talking introduction before you play the music (like I do), then your music can go a little longer, but try to limit it to around 30 seconds. Even if you think your music is really great, most people are there to listen to you talk, not to listen to music. They have Spotify and Apple Music for that.

You don’t have to use music in your podcast at all. Some of the podcasts I regularly listen to don’t have music, and it’s fine. Also, not using music in your podcast can cut down on post production time.

I read an article from Paul Jarvis last week where he explains how he plans, records, edits, and publishes episodes in under an hour. (Note: I said Justin Jackson in the podcast. Sorry, Paul.) Not having music reduces the amount of time he has to spend in post-production, and I think that’s great for him.

Be careful with free music. Finding music on a free music site doesn’t mean it’s automatically legal to use in your podcast. The best way to be sure is to buy music from a reputable seller like AudioJungle.net.

If you want to include music in your podcast and you’re not paying for a professional radio-style intro (I’m not a fan of those, honestly), you’ll need to learn how to automate volume changes.

In Garageband and Logic, you can automate volume changes in your tracks by hitting “A” and clicking to add points on the horizontal line that you’ll see overlaid on each track. This allows you to drop the volume of a music track when you start talking, or fade the music out at the end of your podcast.

Check out Youtube for automation tutorials for your software.

One of the listeners shared a story about how he used copyrighted music in his early Youtube videos and eventually had to take them down. He lost out on a lot of views because of that bad decision, so again, don’t use copyrighted materials in your stuff. He now uses a subscription service called Epidemic Sound that provides a big library of royalty free songs to creators. Prices start a $15/month, so check that out.

Listener Mikael wrote in to remind me that Logic Pro X comes with a ton of loops and synths, so you can totally put together a song with those. I think that’s a great idea, but I would be careful not to use the full songs that come with Logic or Garageband, as those are overused in videos and podcasts.

I got this topic from a question that I read in Gary Vaynerchuk’s recent book, #AskGaryVee. The question was this: “What’s the best way to grow a following or community from nothing?”

For some people, an audience means ad revenue. For some people, it means enough people to buy your product or work to support you. Some people just want the attention because they feel empty inside and need to feel like people love them. Hey, I get it, I’m not judging. I love feeling loved.

So how do you grow a following from nothing? That’s what I'm exploring in this week's episode.

I’m going to share with you what Gary Vaynerchuck said first, because I think it’s a simple answer that is absolutely the truth.

“If you want to grow a following, put out quality content every day and engage around it.” – Gary Vaynerchuk

It sounds simple, but it’s not actually that easy. Let's break it down a little further. The outline looks like this:

1. Create content

2. Engage Around That Content

3. Build Your Community

Let’s dive in and explore each of these steps.

Jeremiah asked: How do you make sure that you’re targeting the right audience?

It’s easier for people to understand you when you’re all about one thing.

If you’re all about virtual reality and that’s all you talk about, write about, and publish podcast episodes about, when someone in your audience has a friend who wants to learn about VR, they’re gonna send them to you.

If you want to be known for something, spend more time talking about it publicly and less time talking about other things.

Gary Vee said you should be putting out valuable content every day and engaging around it. And while he’s right, daily output is very hard. If you can’t put out something every day, then at least try to share something valuable related to your topic everyday. Curate the valuable content you come across.

In the beginning, you’re going to struggle with knowing what content to put out and how to use the tools available to put it out there.

It’s easy to say “I’m going to put out a video or a podcast every day”, but things get a little harder once you actually pick up a camera and or sit down to record.

You have to think about things like, “Should I write a script? Where do I shoot the video? What about intros and outros, what about microphones, what about hosting?”

There are so many things to learn when it comes to any kind of content creation, so be patient and don’t give up when you hit a roadblock. Buy books. Watch webinars and youtube tutorials. Buy online courses. Learn the tools and get comfortable with using them to create stuff.

Instead of asking “How do get more people to check out my show?”, you should be asking, “How do I make a show that more people will be interested in checking out?”

Can you see the difference there? It’s subtle, but it exists. Worrying about numbers will not get you more listeners, but figuring out ways to make your podcast better will.

If you’re just starting out, the idea of working on something for hours and then publishing it to an audience of no one is scary. I get it, I was there not too long ago.

You have to overcome the part of you that wants to quit because you think that not enough people are paying attention to the thing you’re making. If you don’t push through the beginning phase, you’ll never get to the part where the stuff you're making is good enough to get and hold people's attention.

If you really want to grow an audience for your podcast, you need to be all about it everywhere. It needs to be featured on your website, on your Twitter profile, you need to talk about it constantly. Otherwise people aren’t going to notice, cause there’s a lot of stuff going on in their lives.

People will find your show if it solves a problem they’re having, or if one of their friends loves it and thinks it’s great enough to share.

If you’re not solving a clear problem with your podcast, then it’s going to be difficult to get people to pay attention.

If you’re making a show purely for entertainment, you’re competing with a lot of other podcasts. It’s not impossible to get people to pay attention, but it’s hard. There are a lot of options for people who want to be entertained.

If you don’t love your show enough to talk about it and be excited about it, then most people aren’t going to pay attention.

Create something that you can get excited about and other people will see that and get excited about it too.

Engaging around your content is pretty straightforward. Ask for comments or feedback and respond to any comments or feedback that you get.

It’s strange to me that some people don’t ask their audience for feedback at the end of the show. Just say, “Let me know what you think; email or find me on Twitter.” It only takes a couple of seconds but it shows your audience that you’re willing to talk with them.

Talking with people online can be time consuming, but that’s how you build an audience in the beginning; one person at a time.

After you hear from people in your audience, go make more content based on what you learned from those interactions.

Jeremiah asked: I’ve been asking my audience questions but I’m not getting replies. What should I do?

Sean responded: Reasons you’re not getting replies when you ask for them:

Building a community starts with defining your audience. People want to be part of tribes, groups of people who share a similar interest.

Jordan Newhouse asked: Where do you go to build your audience? Social media? Guest posts on other blogs? Or is it true that “if you build it, they will come”?

Building an audience involves a little bit of everything. Talk about what you care about on social media, make sure you link to your website in your various online profiles. Anywhere there’s an about page, tell people what you’re all about (bonus points if you do it in a way that describes what they’re going to get out of following you or listening to your podcast).

And yes, writing blog posts for other people’s blogs or being a guest on other podcasts is a great way to build an audience.

One of the best ways to get new audience members is to collaborate with the people who are already speaking to the audience you want to speak to.

If you’re a designer who is passionate about sports design (Hi Adam), find the people who are writing blog posts and doing podcasts and making videos about sports design and invite them to be on your show. Send them an email and ask if you can join them on your show.

Two great ways to build an audience for your podcas are:

You should also be introducing your audience members to each other. Use your network to make introductions and foster connections.

Part of growing a follow involves sharing yourself. You’re going to have to be comfortable with talking to people, sharing your opinions and thoughts surrounding the topic you’re talking about.

In the beginning, it’s especially important to invest in your early fans. These are the people who are going to help you spread the word about your show and the people who are going to give you honest, helpful feedback (if you let them). Invest in them. Give them access to you.

As your audience grows, it might become difficult to create and maintain connections with new audience members. You can’t really be good friends with 150 people, but you can always respond to people and say thanks and be grateful for their attention.

Daniela Anne asked: If you had to pick between quality and consistency in terms of growing an audience from scratch, which would you say is the most important?

You really should aim for both, but if I had to pick one, I’d say consistency. You need to show up and create often. If you commit and show up, you’ll probably get better over time. Most people don’t get worse at something over time if they’re paying any attention at all to improving. I know it’s hard, but try not to compare yourself to anyone but your past self. Try to be better than you were last week.

Matthew Kocanda asked: I’ve been building my business for over five years. I have a few friends that always support what I do, but now that I’m trying to branch out and really try to make this commission/design business lucrative, how do you FIND the audience? I feel like I’m starting from scratch on something that’s been 5 years in the making.

The question you have to ask yourself is, “Am I solving a problem people have, or am I creating something that’s a nice to have?”

If you’re creating something that’s just a nice-to-have, it’s a lot harder to make money than if you’re solving a problem. People are willing to pay money to make their problems go away, but we have endless free options for nice-to-have’s and entertainment.

Something I heard on a podcast the other week made a ton of sense: If you want to make real money, solve “my house is burning down” problems.

And I know some of you are thinking, “I just want to make my art and enjoy what I’m doing, I’m not doing it to make money.”

Well, then we aren’t talking about business, we’re talking about art. There’s no guarantee that you’ll make any money with art you make just for yourself. It’s possible, but not promised. It’s easier to make money in business when you solve a problem or create something valuable for someone else in exchange for money.

Ayah Abdul asked: What is the single most important call to action I can give my listeners at the end of an episode?

I can’t tell you what the most important call to action is, you’ll have to decide that for yourself. Spend a little time thinking about it.

Remember that the more call to actions you give someone, the less likely they are to do any of them, so try to keep it to one or two. Give some kind of call to action, don’t just leave people hanging when they finish an episode. Give them something to do or somewhere to go.

Jeremiah Tutwiler asked: Do you have to create content daily? I know that this is the “Holy Grail”, but can you build an audience if you are consistently creating content on say a weekly basis?

You can definitely grow an audience if you create content on a weekly basis, but I think you should supplement it with other things, like writing blog posts and engaging in your community and posting things your audience will find interesting or valuable to Twitter and other social networks.

It seems like some people can get on a podcast or video and sound so effortless and natural. How is this possible? What's the secret?

I got a question from a listener asking how they could improve their speaking voice when reading from a script. Since most of my episodes are scripted, I decided to share everything I've learned about improving my speaking voice and how I read from a script without sounding monotone or boring.

The first (and I’d say most important) piece of advice I have for you if you want to improve your ability to read out loud is:

Jay Britton said this in episode 48, and it’s the best advice I’ve heard: Reading a script out loud is a skill. If you want to get better, practice.

Like all skills, you aren’t born with a natural ability. As you do it more often, you’ll get more comfortable with it, you’ll get better at it, and people will start to notice. They’ll tell you you’re good at it which will increase your confidence and make you want to do it even more.

If you want to get better at something, do it everyday, even if it’s just 10-30 minutes.

Another great piece of advice Jay Britton gave was learn to read ahead while you’re reading something out loud.

Reading ahead will feel unnatural at first, but after you do it for awhile it will get easier and you’ll start making less mistakes. You’ll make fewer mistakes because you’ll know which words are coming, and you’ll be less likely to mess up the intonation of a sentence.

We can’t all sound like Ben Toalson or Barry White. Instead of being sad that you don’t have a deep sexy voice, focus instead on being a confident and dynamic speaker. Learn how to use your voice to the best of its abilities.

Here are a few things to keep in mind when you’re speaking:

We all have things we’re good at, right? We all have things we’re comfortable with. If you’re telling yourself that you’ll never be good at reading or talking out loud, I need you to stop doing that. You can get better. It just takes practice.

Telling yourself you’ll never be good at something only keeps you from getting better at it. Instead, try saying, “I’m not good at this yet, but I’m going to put in the time and get better at it.”

You aren’t stuck with the voice that you have. You aren’t stuck with the way that you speak right now. You can practice speaking in a way that people will find interesting.

I think of podcast voice as kind of like Will Farrell’s character’s voice in Anchorman. You want to speak in your voice, just a little slower (if you’re a fast talker), and a little clearer.

When you’re just starting out, it’s ok to imitate people who have voices that you love listening to. Don’t steal their lines, but pay close attention to the way they speak. How fast do they talk? How do they emphasize certain words? What do you like about the way they speak?

You can either practice and get better in public, or in your bedroom.

It’s ok to make test recordings that will never be published (I’m doing this with video right now, actually). Play around with your voice and see what sounds good to you.

Experiment. Turn on your microphone and just talk for awhile. Read a book out loud.

Get comfortable with talking out loud and listening back to your recordings. It’s how you'll get better.

his will be painful when you’re just starting out. It’s weird, I know, but you need to get familiar with the way you sound in recordings and learn what you need to change. If you don’t know what mistakes you’re making, you won’t know how to fix them.

I have a standing desk, and I love it. Standing while you talk will make you a better speaker. Look into power poses as well. Apparently there are certain stances that make you feel more confident. Weird, but science backs it up.

I used to freak out before live shows, and it showed in my recordings. I started doing breathing exercises before shows to calm my nerves, and I started sounding less stressed. I started feeling more confident. Even just two minutes of slow breathing helped calm me down. Try it.

If you’re doing a podcast, you should take a few minutes and practice reading out loud your script. If you’re writing the script, read it out loud while you write it.

It’s ok to get an outline and a rough draft down before you do that, but reading what you write out loud will help you identify the parts that will give you trouble. Rewrite those parts in a way that sounds natural when you speak them out loud.

If you don’t already have a huge audience, there probably aren’t going to be that many people critiquing the way you talk.

I believe that success comes with skill, so don’t worry if you don’t have a great voice yet. Work on improving it and you’ll grow a bigger audience as you improve.

We all have a certain style of talking. Play to your strengths, but learn how to overcome your weaknesses.

I’m thinking about a couple characters from the Silicon Valley show. There’s a variety of different characters on this show, and they all have different styles of speaking. Some of them are not confident speakers, some are introverts that prefer to use very few words. Some talk to much without having anything of true value to say.

I was imagining what it’d be like if a few of these characters made podcasts. I’m thinking about Gilfoyle, particularly. His intensity and dry humor are his strengths, but he would need to work on being more dynamic with his delivery.

If you’re not very dynamic either, you should work on injecting more emotion, adding some melody to your speaking voice, and changing up the rhythm of your voice, but embrace your strength too.

Remember that not everyone is going to like the way you talk. You gotta learn to be ok with that.

The whole world isn’t your audience. There are going to be some people who like the way you talk, and some that don’t. If someone gives you feedback about the way you talk, accept it and see if there’s any truth to it. Take the feedback and improve where you can.

Be comfortable with who you are. We all have unique voices, and that’s a good thing. It’d be boring if everything talked the same way and said the same things. Embrace your voice instead of being ashamed of it.

Jordan asked: Script vs outline: Do you write out what you’re going to say word-for-word, do you write down a simple outline with points you want to cover, or something in between? How does this affect how natural you sound?

I usually write out a pretty detailed outline for my episodes. I’ll write a main point or takeaway as a headline, then write a couple paragraphs for each headline. I do go off script sometimes, and that’s something I’ve gotten better at through time and practice.

In the beginning, the more you write, the better you’ll sound. Reading from a script and sounding a little robotic is still better than fumbling around for ten minutes, trying to find the right words and not making a point (or making your point poorly). It just comes back to practice.

Rob Williams asked: How do you find the right way to say things when you go off script?

Sean responded: “The best tip is to know your message. Think about the times you’re passionate about something and you’re talking to a friend about it. You don’t need a script. It sounds natural. It sounds fluid. That’s what you want to emulate.”

That is so true. The things that you really care about, the things you’re passionate about, those are the things you know best and that you can talk about comfortably for hours.

You want to really know your message before you start talking. I’ve discovered that writing about something multiple times really engrains the words, sentences, phrases, and information into my brain. (This is why writing is so helpful and important for podcasters.)

If there were only two things I want you to takeaway from this episode, they would be:

Ever wondered how to make a living with just your voice? Interested in becoming a professional voice-over artist?

This week I'm joined by professional voice-over artist Jay Britton, who has done work for companies like HBO (Game of Thrones!), Marvel, Amazon, and more. He built his voice-over career from scratch in his late 20's, and in this episode, Jay shares everything you need to know if you want to be a professional voice-over artist too.

We talked about how he got started, what gear he recommends for beginners, how to find work if you're just starting out, how to get your first agent, tips for improving your speaking voice, and so much more.

Aaron: How did you get started doing voice-over work? Were you born with a golden voice, did you know from an early age that you were going to be a voice actor?

Jay: Golden voice? Not exactly. I don’t really have a special Barry White kind of voice. I did know from an early age that I wanted to do something with my voice. I blame the Animaniacs and all those kinds of shows for the inspiration. I just wanted to do voices; I was that guy in school who did the funny voices.

Like so many people, I decided to do something sensible after college. I left college and went straight into an IT job for 10 years or so. But I got to a point in my life where IT work was just too boring; I knew I couldn’t do it for the rest of my life. I asked myself what I wanted to do, and knew that it was voice-over. So I slowly started to take some steps towards getting started. Those first steps are always the scariest.

The first thing I did was look for a voice coach. I booked a workshop in London and got some coaching and recorded some demos. Then (slowly) I started to try to find voice-over work.

There was a long journey from then to what I have now; I definitely had a false start, kind of kept it on the sidelines for awhile. I kind of dabbled, I didn’t commit to getting my voice-over business off the ground.

After about 3 years of dabbling, I had a really bad day at my job (still IT) and I was talking to my wife afterwards about how much I hated it. She said, “Why don’t you do the voice-over thing properly?”

So that’s when I started taking it seriously. I went over to the states and got some more coaching, got some real recordings done, got some new kit (that’s gear), and really worked hard to make it my full-time business.

So it started off slowly, but when I made my mind up that it was possible and starting applying myself, that’s when it all started coming together.

Aaron: So how old were you when you started dabbling? And how long did it take you to go full-time?

Jay: I’d just got married… so 27? I’m 31 now, so I got started around four years ago. And I kept my job until recently. My hours at the job decreased as my voice-over work increased, and eventually I ditched the day job altogether.

But in the beginning I’d work the day job Monday-Friday, 9am to 5pm, and as I got more bookings for voice-over work my schedule got a little crazy.

So the transition was hard but it was worth it.

Aaron: What kind of gear did you have when you were starting out?

Jay: I had (and this is terrible)… a $30 USB microphone. It had a built-in pop shield. For my booth (my entire sound treatment), I had two pieces of foam stood up in a “V” behind the microphone, and a blanket over my head. Not terribly professional, but it got me started.

Aaron: Did you actually do some paying gigs with that setup?

Jay: Oh yeah, I booked a lot of work on that mic. I booked and recorded a Marvel gig on that kit. I was supposed to do the voice of Jarvis for some Avengers promo stuff.

That’s when I started feeling a little bit of imposter syndrome. It was just me in my little pop-up booth in my house in England with my $30 USB microphone. But they had no idea; I was just a voice on a microphone and I did the job, and that was that.

Aaron: How much did you know about things like setting input gain levels and EQ and compression and all that post production stuff? Was that handled by you or did your clients do it?

Jay: At that point I knew very little about it. I was flying by the seat of my pants. Most clients at that stage didn’t require much, just a bit of cleanup and normalizing.

I knew that I didn’t want to go over the red line on the meters; if you’re chopping the top off, dial it down. But that was about it, I really didn’t know much about recording and post-production when I was getting started.

Aaron: I think a lot of people will be relieved to hear that. I talk about sound quality and post-production a lot because I hate to see podcasts ruined by poor audio quality, but that’s something you have to learn through trial and error. You can’t let it keep you from getting started.

Jay: Absolutely. I’m a big believer in simplicity. I’m talking to you on a USB microphone right now because my home studio is currently being put back together.

You don’t need the fanciest mic or a ton of knowledge to sound good. Just make sure you aren’t clipping and do some basic treatment to your audio.

Aaron: So which USB mic are you using currently? And what other gear do you have in your home studio?

Jay: I’m recording this episode with a Rode NT USB mic ($170), which is really nice. It’s not a very “hot” mic, so it’s good if you’re in a noisy environment. It’s kind of my backup/travel mic.

In my main studio I use a Sennheiser 416 shotgun mic ($999). It’s a beautiful mic.

I also have the “voice-over standard”, the Neumann TLM 103 ($1299).

I record everything through a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 interface ($180) (with a 2i2 as a backup).

Not every mic is right for your voice. You’ll need to try some different mics out to see what pairs with your voice the best.

Aaron: What advice would you give to someone interested in making a living doing voice-over work?

Jay: The first thing I’d recommend is forgetting about the creative side of it when you’re first getting into it.

You are starting a business. You have to get your head around that. You’re going to be pretty isolated as a voice-over artist; most of your work is going to be done from home.

You have to approach it like you’re starting a business. You have to think about things like your vocal training, where you’re going to invest your money, how you’re going to brand and market your voice, what your competition is like, what the market wants at the moment…

You have to think about things like that. If you think about those things you’ll have a massive advantage over someone who just buys a mic and records some stuff.

If you want to make a living from voice-over work, you have to think about yourself as a business.

I’m a huge believer in voice coaching as well. I’ve had four different coaches since I got started. Each genre has particular requirements, and a voice-over coach can help you understand those things and also the industry as a whole.

If you’re just getting started as a voice-over artist, a voice coach is one of the best investments you can make.

Jay: After you get a simple home studio setup, you can start looking for work. And there’s really only three ways you can get work:

First, through an agent.

Second, through “pay to play” websites, where you pay to become a member and you get access to auditions.

And third, through direct marketing; reaching out directly to production companies. You phone them up and say, “Hey, I’m a voice-over actor, do you guys needs voices? Here’s my demo reel.”

Start building relationships, and if you have a plan and you hit all three of those, you’ll start booking work.

Aaron: Can you share how you got started? Which did you do first, and what worked best for you?

Jay: I had some pretty awful reels (demos) when I first started, but I signed up for a pay to play website called Voice 123 and I got a couple of gigs there. That was where I dabbled for awhile; I stayed on that site and picked up a bit of work here and there.

When I decided I was going to do it properly, I put about $15,000 on a credit card to train with a commercial coach, an animation coach, and a promotion coach, and I flew out to Los Angeles to get some proper reels done. Once I had those, I hit all the pay to play websites again and started doing direct marketing. I started doing research on Twitter and Google, finding the production companies and phoning them up, giving them my reels and my website and stuff like that.

I also started networking, meeting other voice-over actors, meeting game producers, going to events and getting my name out there. Once I had a decent offering, that’s when I went to the agents and said, “Here I am, this is what I’ve got. Represent me, dammit!”

Aaron: Sounds like a fantastic strategy. And hey, it worked.

Jay: There’s a common misconception that you get your work through an agent, and these days that’s just not the case. Thanks to the internet, anyone can find your website and hire you. Agents will always have their place because many of them look after the niche and “big” jobs, things like Coca-Cola advertisements and huge triple-A games. But so much work is now on the pay to play websites and through production companies.

You can make a living in voice-over without an agent. You don’t need an agent to be successful.

I love my agents, but they don’t make up the majority of my income. You don’t need to worry about getting an agent when you’re just getting started. In fact, agents won’t take you on until you’ve got a lot of stuff to offer them.

Aaron: I know earlier you mentioned that you got started on a 30 dollar USB microphone. Do you have any gear recommendations for new voice actors who don’t want to spend a ton of money to get started?

Jay: That was 6 years ago and USB mics are way better these days. There’s a starter kit that I recommend from Focusrite. It comes with a microphone, a Scarlett 2i4 interface, and some headphones. Basically everything you need to get started for around 200 dollars (you will need to buy a pop filter and a mic stand, though).

A basic setup like that is all you need, and then just sit in a closet with some pillows and a duvet over your head. I’m a big fan of simplicity. Just get started. You can always buy a better microphone later once you’ve made some money.

It doesn’t matter how you start, it just matters that you start.

You can always buy a better microphone, you can always build a voice-over booth. But the sure-fire way to make sure nothing ever happens is to never start in the first place. It doesn’t matter how you start, just start.

Note: If you’re interested in learning more about affordable gear for voice-over or podcasting, check out https://kit.com/thepodcastdude/podcasting-gear.

Aaron: Are people born with great voices, or is that something you can teach yourself? What are your tips for improving your voice and the way you talk?

Jay: Some people are both with a voice that makes a nice sound. Is that relevant, does that directly relate to their potential success as a voice actor? No. Not in the slightest.

Like I said earlier, I don’t have an amazing voice. I have a standard voice that sounds like everyone else’s, and so do most of my colleagues. You’ve got guys like Don LaFontaine who have a deep and boomy voice (the “In a world…” movie trailer voice), but you wouldn’t book him to do a corporate voice-over gig. His voice just wouldn’t sound right.

You’re born with the voice you are born with, that’s it. You can’t change that. All you can do is learn how to use your own voice to it’s best abilities.

I’m proud of the fact that I’m able to do a broad range of characters with my voice. I can go high, I can go a little low, I can do accents and I can make my voice sound funny. But I’m never going to book a movie trailer; I don’t have the right voice for it. That’s ok.

Part of working in voice-over is understanding that you might book work in genres that you don’t necessarily want to work in.

You might want to do movie trailers but if you don’t have the right voice for it, you won’t get the gig. This is why you need coaching. You need to understand things like, if you’re reading a promo script for a TV show, you need to know how to make the read less funny, or how to change the inflection. So much is based on melody. Knowing how to play with your voice is so much more important then the voice you were born with.

One of my coaches said, “As far as booking a job goes, 95% of it is how well you understand the copy and how well you perform the copy, and the last 5% is genetics.”

Rather than worry about how your natural voice sounds, worry about what you do have control over, which is how you use the voice that you have.

Jay: Want to get better at reading scripts? Read out loud every day. It’s not good enough just to read, you need to read out loud everyday.

One skill that is absolutely critical is being able to read ahead of what you’re currently saying out loud when you’re reading a script. You’ll make less mistakes because you’ll know what words are coming, and you’ll very rarely mess up the intonation of a sentence.

You’re not going to get many scripts that you can read in advance, so the ability to read ahead while performing a script is essential.

Reading ahead will feel unnatural at first, but after you do it for awhile it will get easier and you’ll start making less mistakes.

This is especially important for video games because you’ll often get thrown into recording sessions without a chance to read the script or even get a full idea of what your character is like.

It’s an immensely helpful skill because no one in this business has any time. If you can nail something on the first take, then you’ll do great.

Another tip is go and do some improv and learn how to ad-lib. It’ll speed up the auditory part of your brain, you’ll learn how to come up with words and get them out quickly. That’s a great skill to have. Increase that “brain-to-mouth” speed.

Tobi asks: What are your thoughts about working with unions?

Jay: It really depends. If you’re just starting out, there’s no reason to join the union, and more and more work is going non-union in the US. So if you’re in the states and you’re trying to do voice-over work, don’t join the union until you’re forced to join the union. You can actually book your first union job without being a part of the union, and it’s $5000 to join after that, so at the start of your career, it’s not really necessary.

Richard asks: What are some of the best methods to get in front of casting agents? What elements are they looking for in a vocal reel? Is sending in a vocal reel the best way to get hired for voice over gigs/start a relationship with casting agents?

Jay: There’s two sides to this. There’s casting agents (or as we call them here in the UK, casting directors), and then there are agents. An agent will represent you and present you to a casting director (who will then consider you for a job).

If you want to get yourself an agent, the best way to do that is by referral. So make sure you have a great sound reel (demos) and do lots of networking with other voice actors, especially the ones who work with agency you’d like to work with. Don’t be weird, but develop relationships with other voice actors and agent. If you’re good, they’ll notice.

Thousands of people want to be voice actors and work with these agents, so you’ve got to find a way to stand above the crowd. Doing great work and getting referred by another successful voice actor is one of the best ways to get an agent.

In terms of working with casting directors, generally they are “behind the scenes” people. They’re not the most receptive to being bombarded by voice actors. The best way to get to know them is to organically get a job for them and just start a relationship with them.

Another way to meet casting agents is on Twitter. Social media in general is a great tool for growing relationships, just don’t be salesy about it. If they tweet a funny picture of their cat, don’t reply with “I’m a voice actor, please hire me!”

Ultimately, people work with people. Don’t smash your voice reel in their face; take the time to build a relationship. That’s the way I play it.

Aaron: Relationships are so important if you want to be successful as a freelancer. When I was getting started as a podcast editor, most of my best clients came from referals. I always made sure I was friendly and I did a good job and if I saw an opportunity to provide some value, I’d do that. Eventually people grew to trust me, and if they knew someone who needed my services, they’d send them to me. So I got a ton of work that way, and I think that works in almost any industry.

Jay: Exactly. I’ve done voice-over work for 22 games in the past 2-3 years, and something like 80% of those jobs came through networking.

Another tip is give it time. It’s natural to want everything to happen yesterday, but it takes time to develop those relationships. I’m going to be working on a big game project pretty soon, and I only got the gig after talking with the casting director for over eight months. That’s a long time to pursue a lead, but things don’t happen overnight. You’ve got to be prepared to play the long game.

Eric asks: Do clients expect you to do post-processing on your recordings, or is that something they typically handle? Is it important for you to know how to master your own recordings?

Jay: It’s usually a 50/50 split. If I book something through my agent, I’m usually going to a studio where they have professional audio engineers to handle everything. If you record something at home, the client will most likely expect you to handle the mastering.

If you’re booking work through the pay to play websites or through direct marketing, they’re probably going to expect you to do the post-production. Quite a few of my clients also want me to match the audio to the video as well.

In general, most clients just want the audio to be clean and pretty level in terms of dynamics. So you do need to be comfortable with editing audio and doing basic treatment (equalizing, compression, normalizing).

You can find Jay’s website at VoiceOfJayBritton.com, and follow him on Twitter @voicejaybritton.

If you’d like to make a living as a voice actor, I highly suggest hiring Jay for coaching. It’s an investment that will pay off 10x in the long run.