The Jabot

In this episode, Kathryn speaks with Emily Poler about her experience founding Poler Legal and navigating the legal profession. They discuss negotiation strategies and managing gender dynamics. Emily shares the challenges and rewards of creating her own law firm such as gaining autonomy, selecting compatible clients, and handling the impact of the pandemic. She emphasizes on embracing her identity as a woman in the legal field during negotiations.

Who's The Guest? Emily A. Poler is the founding partner of Poler Legal LLC. For nearly 20 years, she has managed tough legal issues through both litigation and negotiation for multinational companies and complex organizations. Her practice focuses on high growth companies and founder disputes.

Episode Resources https://polerlegal.com/

Episode Highlights

• Emily shares her journey to becoming a lawyer, despite initial opposition to the idea
• The transition from a BigLaw firm to a smaller practice and the benefits of working in a boutique setting
• The importance of having work-life balance
• Moments of reflection and importance of self-assessment in the legal profession
• The process of building her own practice area and finding work-life balance
• The importance of a rational mindset in negotiations and counseling clients through the process
• The highs of starting and running a law firm on your own, including control over your own work and clients
• Challenges faced in starting a practice, including the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic
• Diversity issues in the legal profession, specifically the male-dominated environment
• Emily's approach in dealing with gender dynamics, using them to her advantage

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus

Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn interviews Jenny Hamilton, Chief Legal Officer at Exterro. They discuss the launch of the Lexis Plus Platform and its AI-powered Judicial Brief Analysis tool, Hamilton's journey into the legal profession, her experiences with e-discovery, and her perspective on being a woman in a male-dominated industry.

Hamilton shares her insights on evolving the legal industry, with a focus on finding balance in gender representation and adapting legal technology to the increasing privacy regulations and rising volumes of data that today's legal departments face. She emphasizes the importance of trusting oneself and one's instincts in both personal and professional life.

Who's The Guest? Jenny Hamilton is respected as an innovator in the legal profession for her award- winning approach to building legal operations and data governance programs. In recent years, her practice has focused on the intersection of e-discovery, privacy and cybersecurity. After graduating from University of Texas, she went into major account sales for Gateway Computers where she was encouraged by in-house counsel to make a leap towards law school. Upon graduation from the University of Iowa College of Law, she moved to Chicago to practice commercial litigation. John Deere recruited her from private practice to spearhead the company's e- discovery, investigations and data privacy. Early on, Hamilton's team selected Exterro as their first e-discovery program, and Legal Technology News hailed Deere for their disciplined approach to technology acquisition. Hamilton continued on to receive c-suite recognition through the team's transformative use of data analytics, building a scalable cross border program for forensic investigations and e-discovery, and leading a law department-wide technology initiative to achieve operational excellence. Following her 14-year career at Deere, Hamilton served as general counsel and data privacy officer for a legal services firm, HaystackID, as a strategic legal advisor to the c-suite and board while building out their legal and compliance operations.

Episode Resources https://www.exterro.com/about/leadership-team

Episode Highlights

• Jenny Hamilton discusses her decision to go to law school as a way to escape the decline of the company she was working for at the time.
• Jenny shares how she enjoyed learning about contracts from a legal perspective and tying it into real life experiences.
• Transitioning from a trial lawyer to an in-house role, and how the learning curve differed.
• The evolution of e-discovery and the significant changes in the industry.
• Roles and responsibilities of a chief legal officer at Xterra, including being an advisor to the business and developing a legal strategy.
• Tackling gender disparity in the legal industry, the importance of allyship, and finding balance.
• The adaptation of the legal tech industry to cater to the needs of today's legal departments.

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus

Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Michelle Kallen, a Partner at Jenner & Block, to her journey to becoming an appellate lawyer. She explains that the more she learned about law, the more she was drawn to the field. She then goes on to talk about the appeal process and how it can be a difficult one to enter. Finally, Michelle shares her advice on how to get into the field of appellate law, including the importance of continuing to educate yourself on the legal field.

Who's The Guest? Michelle Kallen is a former Solicitor General of Virginia who helps clients navigate complex matters before federal and state appellate courts. Leading companies in the aerospace and defense, hospitality, technology, and transportation industries benefit from her extensive government experience, unique insight into multistate and constitutional litigation matters, and award-winning appellate work.

Episode Resources

• https://www.jenner.com/
• https://www.jenner.com/en/people/michelle-s-kallen Episode Highlights
• What made her decide to specialize in Appellate Law
• Transitioning from government to private practice and working on high profile cases
• Exploring different aspects of litigation and appellate practice
• Breaking down the day-to-day practice of Biglaw as an appellate lawyer
• Different practice models as an appellate lawyer
• Finding the right fit: The pros and cons of the different practice models
• Appellate practice for junior associates
• Strategies for success as an associate and partner
• Overcoming roadblocks and advancing in a legal career

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus

Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Jennifer Henderson, a Partner with the legal recruiting firm, Major, Lindsey & Africa (MLA), to discuss why she decided to go to law school and how she ended up becoming a legal recruiter. She also talks about the current lateral market and provides advice for those looking to make a move. Additionally, she shares some tips on how to effectively negotiate with the candidate and the legal world's stand on hiring people who are working remotely.

Who's The Guest? Jennifer Henderson is a Partner from the legal recruiting firm, Major, Lindsey & Africa (MLA). She focuses on placing associates and partners with law firms and corporations and is assisting attorneys with all stages of their career development. Jennifer has counseled, coached, recruited, and placed top talents with the legal and the tech center for more than 10 years. She uses her background as a practicing lawyer to offer valuable insights to her candidates as they consider potential career moves.

Episode Resources

• https://www.mlaglobal.com/
• https://www.mlaglobal.com/en/people/jennifer-henderson?byconsultantorauthor=jennifer-henderson
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-henderson-6466386 Episode Highlights
• The path from aspiring to saving the world to becoming a legal recruiter
• Different careers in legal recruiting
• Leveraging the Biglaw experience to help others find career satisfaction
• Understanding the lateral market in 2021 and 2022
• Changing the legal market in 2021, 2022, and the years to come
• The impact of the 2021 legal market on lateral hiring and performance-based layoffs
• Remote working as a perk for career transitions
• Red flags when interviewing candidates

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus

Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Laura Bianchi, Co-Founder of Bianchi & Brandt and a leading entrepreneur, attorney, and strategic advisor for the cannabis industry. Laura emphasizes the importance of finding areas of law that you enjoy, as it is a huge part of your life and will determine how much you get out of your career. As a lawyer who specializes in transactions and corporate work, she describes how she was determined from the beginning of her career to get the experience and work she wanted which led to her building her own law firm with her partner. Laura believes that having a good partner is essential for success, as it is a learning process and it helps to have someone to go through the process with.

Who's The Guest? Laura Bianchi is an award-winning lawyer and entrepreneur and is one of the country's foremost experts in cannabis law, compliance, and operations. She started her work in the discipline with the 2010 passage of Arizona's medical marijuana law and was one of the first business/corporate transaction attorneys to specialize in the nascent legal cannabis market. She has represented clients in more than $200 million in transactions in the industry.

Laura has been featured in O Magazine, Forbes, Bloomberg, Marijuana Business Daily, Dope Magazine, Denver Post, Arizona Republic, AZ Big Media, and numerous other industry and traditional media sources. She was also featured in Authority Magazine's "Women Leaders of the Cannabis Industry" and named "Top 100 Attorneys in Arizona" by AZ BIG Media in 2020 and 2022.

Episode Resources

• https://www.bianchibrandt.com/
• https://www.laurabianchi.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurabianchi13 Episode Highlights
• What made Laura go to law school?
• Lawyer expectations and career evolution
• Deciding a practice focus in law
• What her journey was when starting a law firm
• Building a team and letting go of what does not work
• Exploring the challenges and rewards of corporate law
• The evolving industry of cannabis industry
• Creative solutions for the hiring challenges of the cannabis industry
• Real estate law challenges
• Dealing with war stories from the industry
• How she negotiates on behalf of clients
• Respectful practice of MMA
• Advice to lawyers and individuals who want to establish a successful law practice
• Balancing roles and working harder as a woman in the legal profession
• Establishing boundaries and finding humor in professional settings

Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus

Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Karine Sokpoh, CEO of the Midlands African Chamber, to talk about the highs and the lows of focusing on immigration law. Karine reveals that she did not consider other career paths because she wanted to help people and had a goal to work for an international organization in war zones and help with peacekeeping and refugee resettlement efforts. She also recalls how she started from having a very limited budget when she established her own practice to building trust with clients and having her own clientele. On a day-to-day basis, she does consultations, reviews paperwork prepares applications, and may have to take clients to interviews or represent them in court. Karine believes that being an attorney requires both legal and interpersonal skills.

Who's The Guest? Karine Sokpoh practices in the areas of immigration law, intellectual property law, and family law. She represents individuals and businesses in a variety of immigration matters including asylum and refugee petitions; family and marriage-based petitions; removal defense and waivers; H-1 and F-1 visas; and green card and citizenship applications.

Karine also counsels clients on the protection of their U.S. and foreign intellectual property assets and provides services associated with such protection, including researching and providing opinions on the availability and/or registrability of trademarks; filing and prosecuting trademark and copyright registration applications; policing trademarks for infringing uses; and addressing actual or potential infringement of intellectual property through cease-and-desist letters and other dispute resolution mechanisms.

Episode Resources

• https://402legal.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/karine-sokpoh-746aa313

Episode Highlights

• Why did Karine Sokpoh decide to go to law school?
• Life as an immigration lawyer: What it looks like on a day-to-day basis
• Challenges she faced when starting out in the legal field
• Developing soft skills in the legal profession
• Making sure that she's giving her all and her empathy to clients without burning herself out
• Comparing expectations and the reality of becoming an immigration attorney
• Accounting, entrepreneurship, and networking opportunities
• Importance of taking time to get to know yourself
• Creating opportunities for underserved entrepreneurs

Episode Sponsored By

• https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus

Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Jayne Conroy, a plaintiff's attorney at Simmons Hanly Conroy LLC, to talk about the risks and rewards of being a plaintiff's attorney, and how MDLs work, and offers advice to younger lawyers interested in similar cases. She stresses the importance of being curious and open to learning new things, recognizing the workload, and having patience.

Who's The Guest? Jayne Conroy is a plaintiff's attorney at Simmons Hanly Conroy and oversees practice areas in the Complex Litigation Department. With more than 30 years of experience in her legal career, Jayne has earned a superb national reputation as an elite trial lawyer, skilled strategist, and decisive negotiator. She helped secure billions of dollars in verdicts and settlements for individuals, families, and courtrooms around the world.

Episode Resources

• https://www.ali.org/members/member/221397/
• https://www.simmonsfirm.com/ Episode Highlights
• From Pre-Med to Law: Why Jayne decided to switch to law school
• What it looks like being a plaintiff lawyer before
• How she used her medical background in her law career
• What it looks like to be a plaintiff lawyer
• The risks of being a plaintiff lawyer
• Balancing the competing sides and the risks of being a plaintiff lawyer
• Getting involved in hard-to-resolve cases Multidistrict litigation: How it works
• Highs and lows of the plaintiff's side work Episode Sponsored By
• https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus

Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Lisa Sarnoff Gochman, an appellate lawyer and author of the book At the Altar of the Appellate Gods: Arguing before the US Supreme Court, to talk about how her career shifted from being in law school to being an appellate lawyer who has spent the last 40 years writing. Lisa also discusses how an appellate attorney is different from a lawyer doing trial work. She recalls how she worked her way up from the Bronx District Attorney's office to the New Jersey Supreme Court and ended up working on a case that went all the way to the US Supreme Court.

Who's The Guest? Lisa Sarnoff Gochman is a retired New Jersey Deputy Attorney General, with twenty-six years of experience, who specializes in complex criminal appellate litigation. She argued before the United States Supreme Court in the landmark case Apprendi v. New Jersey.

Lisa is a graduate of the University of Rochester and Cardozo School of Law in New York City. She is a career appellate prosecutor and currently serves as an Of Counsel to the Appellate Section of the Monmouth County Prosecutor's Office.

Episode Resources

• https://go.authorsguild.org/members/7023
• http://www.lisagochmanauthor.com/
• https://twitter.com/gochmanlisa
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-gochman-36b49236
• At the Altar of the Appellate Gods: Arguing before the US Supreme Court Episode Highlights
• Looking back: Why Lisa Sarnoff Gochman decided to go to law school
• Differences between trial and appellate work
• What an appellate attorney does
• How she determined how his law career will be
• The case of Charles Apprendi: A New Jersey hate crime
• Impact of gender diversity on the Supreme Court bar
• Dealing with the decision of the case
• The book writing process: What motivated Lisa to write the book

Episode Sponsored By https://pli.edu/

Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Ishan Bhabha, co-chair of Jenner and Block's Education Practice and a member of its Appellate and Supreme Court Practice, to talk about the well-publicized affirmative action cases at the oral arguments at the Supreme Court. He discusses his experiences representing the Ivy League and other schools, as well as the importance of diversity in education and the stakes of the cases. Ishan also recalls how he found appellate law to be more interesting and exciting, as it combines logic and reasoning with the ability to do the right thing. For Ishan, the biggest appeal of appellate law is its diversity - he never knows what his clients will need help with next.

Who's The Guest? Ishan Bhabha is one of the nation's preeminent lawyers for institutions of higher education and technology companies. He has been recognized by both Bloomberg Law and the National Law Journal as one of the 40 best lawyers under 40 in the United States.

Ishan is the co-chair of Jenner and Block's Education Practice and a member of its Appellate and Supreme Court Practice. He represents institutions, senior executives, and boards of directors on high-stakes matters of legal, regulatory, and ethical risk. He has argued in the U.S. Supreme Court and numerous U.S. Courts of Appeals.

Episode Resources

• https://jenner.com/people/IshanBhabha
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/ishanbhabha Episode Highlights
• Ishan Bhabha on why he decided to go to law school
• The evolution of his career
• Three things that make law school exciting
• The allure of appellate practice
• How to foster diversity in education
• Impact of big cases on lawyers
• The stakes of big cases on clients
• What are the impacts of the Supreme Court's decision on college admissions?
• Alternatives to explicit race consideration in admissions
• Effects of Supreme Court cases on legal processes
• Different stakes of commercial and social litigation
• Defending diversity initiatives
• What the D&I task force is
• Highlights of Ishan's work as a technology lawyer

Episode Sponsored By https://pli.edu/

Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Aliza Shatzman, an attorney, advocate, and former DC Superior Court law clerk, to talk about her experience as a clerk in the DC Superior Court where she faced gender discrimination, harassment, and ultimately retaliation by the now former judge for whom she clerked. She also discusses how she reached out to her law school for support and assistance, only to find out that the judge had a history of misconduct that law school officials were aware of. Due to her experience, Aliza co-founded and launched The Legal Accountability Project, a non-profit organization dedicated to addressing issues of judicial accountability.

Who's The Guest? Aliza Shatzman is an attorney, an advocate, and a former DC Superior Court law clerk. She regularly writes and speaks about judicial accountability.

Aliza is also the President & Co-Founder of The Legal Accountability Project, a nonprofit aimed at protecting law clerks from workplace mistreatment and holding judges accountable for misconduct.

Episode Resources

• https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU03/20220317/114503/HHRG-117-JU03-20220317-SD005.pdf
• https://www.legalaccountabilityproject.org/
• Untouchable Judges? What I've Learned about Harassment in the Judiciary, and What We Can Do to Stop It
• The Conservative Case for the Judiciary Accountability Act
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/aliza-shatzman-58b55223/
• https://twitter.com/AlizaShatzman Episode Highlights
• What was Aliza Shatzman's clerkship experience like?
• The Legal Accountability Project: From clerkship to advocacy
• The impact of clerkship misconduct on law students' career prospects
• Importance of the Clerkship Whisper Network
• Why law schools should be open with the reports of alumni and students
• The best way of data transparency and sharing
• Conducting a workplace assessment and reporting any data on workplace culture
• Getting assessments from non-lawyers working in the legal field.
• How persuasive harassment can be

Episode Sponsored By https://pli.edu/telecomregulation

Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.

• Subscribe with Apple Podcasts
• Follow on Spotify
• Leave a review on Apple Podcasts