The Jabot

Kathryn interviews Patricia Cain, one of the authors of Paving the Way, about the twists and turns of her life and career: from going to law school, being part of a circus troupe to starting a career in the legal academia. Patricia highlights her experiences not only as a teacher but also her experiences in law school. She also shared the best lessons she learned, especially for those who want to start a life in legal academia.

Episode Resources

• Paving the Way Episode Highlights
• Introducing the guest: Patricia Cain. - 0:38
• The reasons why Patricia decided to go to law school. - 1:24
• The twists and turns: How she went from law school, a theater member, to being a teacher. - 4:20
• Patricia's involvement in the Paving the Way book project. - 9:14
• A shift from being introduced to Herma Hill Kay to continue writing the book. - 12:08
• Linking histories: Knowing the difference of the process back in the '70s to her experience. - 17:16
• It wasn't until other women joined the faculty that Ellen Peter's voice could be heard during faculty meetings. When you're the one woman in the room, you say something and nobody says anything back then 5 minutes later a man says the same thing and everybody thinks it's brilliant. I experience that every time. - 18:57
• The adoption process. - 21:17
• The best lessons that people who want to start a life in academia can take away. - 23:46 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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Kathryn spoke with Mark Hsu about his experiences as a lawyer, author, and father. They also discussed how Mark drew a line and a balance between legal practice and parenthood. Additionally, they talked about some of the challenges that Mark faced while starting as a lawyer up to creating different lessons for his book that he can pass down to his children.

Episode Resources

• Please Open in the Event of My Death
• Please Open in the Event of My Death Audio Book Episode Highlights
• Why did Mark decide to go to law school? - 1:00
• Starting from rejections: The start of Mark's career. - 4:54
• What is the initial impulse to start writing down his advice to his children? - 8:20
• Balancing parenthood and legal practice. - 10:35
• We don't want work to completely consume our lives. - 11:11
• How it all started: What is Mark's process when writing his book? - 11:52
• What are the most important lessons that he created to pass down to his kids? - 16:30
• There are several obstacles you can't overcome simply by the force of will. But if you don't try, you're losing half of the battle there. - 18:05
• Using pop culture references in his book makes it more relatable to the readers. - 22:13
• To be a positive person, you need to look at the bright side of life, you need to look at positive things. - 26:37 Subscribe, Share, and Review
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I spoke with Vernon and Armand about the initiation of their partnership and writing a book together for both a general audience and for lawyers. We discussed why they chose the Supreme Court as the lens to examine racial justice in this country, and why it is important in the current political climate to examine the Court's history on racial justice. We spoke about their research process and surprising or unexpected findings.

Episode Resources

• Justice Deferred: Race and the Supreme Court by Orville Vernon Burton and Armand Derfner
• Case of Jones v. Alfred H. Mayer Company Episode Highlights
• The present goes out of the past - 4:40
• How the guests are writing for a general audience and somebody with a legal background - 8:20
• The 13 to 15 Amendments were developed to argue equality and end the badges of slavery - 24:30
• The progressing wing of the government are the people we elect in every 2 to 4 years - 27:47
• It's the President and the congress that lead the way to turn the court around for a very reactionary court in a way out of respect to the people of the country - 28:00
• The court will get better but it will not do it by itself - 28:20
• We can shape the future - 31:19 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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Kathryn spoke with Nancy Leong about why she went to law school, and the career twists and turns that resulted in her winding up where she is. They also discussed how she came up with the term "identity capitalist", and the personal anecdotes included in her book. They also spoke about hidden in-group agendas and strategies she recommends for those in out-groups.

Episode Resources

• https://www.law.du.edu/about/people/nancy-leong Episode Highlights
• Why she went to law school - 1:30
• Her legal path - 2:27
• Moving to the Academia - 4:04
• Explaining some concepts of her book - 7:01
• Law and identity - 13:41
• Employment discrimination - 15:04
• Identity capitalism - 17:05
• The story from which Nancy initiated the book - 22:59
• What matters is what you do in the dark - 28:31
• The notion of diversity - 28:31
• Diversity is not the end goal - 30:05

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Stacey speaks with Stacey Breen about the twists and turns of her career that led her to her role at MLA, and the motivation behind their recent Return to Office Survey. They discussed the most surprising results of the survey, including generational differences in pandemic experiences. Additionally, they spoke of some of the challenges women faced during COVID and what the industry can do to fix them as we return to the office.

Episode Resources

• Why she decided to go to law school - 1:19
• Taking control of your career when you know that you're not happy - 4:15
• The return to office survey - 7:27
• Working on a tech-focused firm - 14:48
• The challenges that women faced during COVID - 15:28
• The back to the office element - 20:06
• Interviewing remotely - 21:15

Episode Highlights

• Stacey Breen, [email protected]
• https://www.mlaglobal.com/en/people/stacey-breen Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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Kathryn spoke with Kelly and Heather about the process of opening up their own firm, and the values they believe to be the most important when establishing a practice. They also discussed the particular benefits and challenges of being best friends and business partners, as well as the biggest changes to their firm due to COVID. They also spoke about tips for practicing law virtually.

Episode Resources

• https://www.culhanemeadows.com/all-attorneys/
• Kelly Culhane ([email protected]) and Heather Clauson Haughian ([email protected])
• Episode Highlights
• "Getting back to normal" - 1:06
• Knowing their backgrounds - 2:07
• Opening up a law firm - 6:17
• The core values - 8:20
• Challenges that the firm has faced - 14:13
• Having a work-life balance - 20:24
• Practicing virtually - 24:55

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Kathryn interviewed Lauren Drake where they discussed, among other things, how her career evolved to her position at Macrae. They talked about how the "Female Law Firm Leaders Roundtable" got started and how the pandemic shaped that launch. They also discussed how FLFL benefits its members and issues tackled by the roundtable over the last year. Additionally, they dive into how women leaders can leverage the hot lateral market to benefit their careers.

Episode Resources

• [email protected]
• https://www.macrae.com/lauren-drake
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurendrake/ Episode Highlights
• Wanting to learn more about the business side - 2:21
• A candidate and the right recruiter - 6:13
• The recruiting space - 8:06
• A different strategy - 9:38
• A difficult year that we just survived - 15:53
• Planning the topics in advance - 18:27
• Business development in a virtual world - 19:57
• A different legal market - 20:43
• Taking control of your career - 22:38 Subscribe, Share and Review
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Kathryn interviewed Shailini George about her experiences as a legal writing professor and the process of writing The Law Students' Guide to Doing Well and Being Well. They also discuss how distraction addiction became an interest for her. Their conversation includes Shailini's thoughts on how law students should use wellness practices to improve their law school experience, as well as some tips for law students to get into the studying zone.

Episode Resources

• Shailini George, [email protected]
• https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/faculty/s/j/sjgeorge Episode Highlights
• Having an A-HA moment - 2:49
• Her legal experience and her desire to teach - 3:06
• So many demands that lawyers face - 4:50
• When she decided to publish this book - 5:45
• Finding focus and being able to be productive - 7:02
• Sometimes the words come easily, sometimes they don't - 8:47
• What distraction-addiction means - 10:03
• Talking about multitasking - 15:22
• Creating a mental space for you to be able to work - 20:43

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Kathryn interviewed Thomas Douglas about his role as a community and industry leader. They discuss the process of opening his own firm, as well as the biggest challenges and rewards of that experience. They also chat about how to create a tolerant and affirming law firm culture. Additionally, they speak about balancing the pressures of the business side of the firm with the legal practice.

Episode Resources

• [email protected]
• https://www.douglasmcdaniel.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-douglas-781a7010/

Episode Highlights

• Why he went to law school - 1:19
• Why he decided to open up his law school - 3:02
• Starting your firm - 7:31
• The skills that he has learned since he opened his firm - 10:50
• Treat people with respect and do good work - 17:01
• The client should always come first - 21:53

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Kathryn chats with Elle McCulty, partner at Waller Law and chair of the firm's Women's Leadership Council. They discuss balancing firm leadership with her practice, the programs the Council implemented, the firm's recognition by Working Mother magazine, and how the firm supports the re-entry of new parents into firm life. They also talk about why it is important for firms to make a concerted effort to support parents in the workplace and advice younger attorneys trying to have it all.

Episode Resources

• https://www.wallerlaw.com/our-people/51/Elle-McCulty Episode Highlights
• Why she made the decision to go to law school - 1:08
• Being a law student - 3:42
• Having an equal perspective - 5:43
• Being a junior attorney - 7:22
• Women's multidimensional initiatives - 11:16
• Time commitments for being a successful lawyer - 13:19
• The re-entry after vaccination - 18:29
• Working from home - 20:08
• Having a more diverse group of attorneys together - 23:09
• You have to do what's best for yourself - 24:48 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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