The Jabot

This week, Kathryn speaks with Fran Perdomo, partner at Gallet Dreyer & Berkey, about why she went to law school and how she decided on her practice area. They discuss Fran's biggest career success and failure, and what she learned from both of those. Fran shares what virtual lawyering has been like during the pandemic, and whether she thinks that makes it harder or easier to balance the rest of one's life. Fran also talks about how the pandemic brought that balancing act in focus.

Episode Resources

• https://www.perdomolaw.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/francelina-perdomo-73b82622

Episode Highlights

• Why did Fran decide to go to law school? - 1:03
• Finding her practice compared to her idealized image of what a lawyer does back when she was a kid. - 2:05
• The twist and turns of her career and how she got to where she is today. - 4:28
• The reasons why the practice of IP law is attractive to her. - 8:36
• A day in her life as an IP attorney. - 12:38
• How she keeps everything in balance. - 16:10
• The highs and lows of her career and what she has learned from them. - 20:01 Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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What's the biggest social issue that you've heard? How were the people, even the government, decided to handle it?

In this episode, Kathryn chats with lawyer, cultural historian, and author Linda Hirshman about her decision to go to law school and the evolution of her career from labor attorney to best-selling author. They discuss how Linda picks what subjects to delve into for her books, and why her latest book, about the abolition movement, is such an important story to tell. They chat about how Linda views the legacy of Sandra Day O'Connor and Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the Court, and the potential legacy of Amy Coney Barrett.

Episode Resources

• Reckoning
• The Color of Abolition
• Sisters in Law
• https://lindahirshman.substack.com/ Episode Highlights
• Why did Linda decide to go to law school? - 1:29
• The evolution of Linda's career. - 2:16
• Process of figuring out which stories need to be told and which ones need more digging into. - 5:15
• Experience with the society agreeing with her now regarding the Bill Clinton sexual harassment case. - 10:05
• Why her book, The Abolition, is right about writing right now. - 14:16
• Reasons why religions are so powerful. - 21:37
• The legacy of Sandra Day O'Connor and Ruth Bader Ginsburg continues. - 24:31
• Predictions or advice to people who want to organize social movements linking to what to do next if reproductive choice or rights is lost. - 29:19

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Surveys are not just a way for a law firm to know the numbers and to gain information. It also helps strengthen the firm's relationship with its associates.

One of the top legal news services in the country, Law360, conducts the Glass Ceiling Survey — and this centers Kathryn's discussion with Law360's Kerry Benn. Kerry presents not only the numbers that result from the Glass Ceiling Survey, she also talks about the disparity between the law school numbers and the actual law firm numbers and what she thinks are the reasons why there are fewer women, especially women of color, in the field.

Episode Resources

• https://muckrack.com/kgbenn1
• https://www.law360.com/ Episode Highlights
• How Kerry Benn entered Law 360 and her background. - 1:12
• Deciding on her priorities needs more in-depth surveys. - 2:37
• How Kerry came up with the questions to use for the Glass Ceiling Survey. - 4:14
• Is there a difference between the actual lived experiences of the associates than the lofty statements that others put out? - 10:22
• The big results and the surprising data from the Glass Ceiling Survey. - 12:00
• Women of color: The disparity between law school numbers and law firm numbers.- 14:37
• Tracking the differences between equity partnership and non-equity partnership and why the numbers are dropping. - 16:35
• Which pieces of data are useful for law firms who want to do better? - 17:24
• Kerry's experience being a champion of Jeopardy in the past. - 23:15 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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It is all being in the right place at the right time: However, there are some life decisions that we already have in place, which can change easily without you knowing.

Kathryn welcomes Anna Brook, whose life changed even if she already made several plans for her future. Set to be an engineer, Anna decided to take a leap of faith and go to Law School in Harvard — and now, she's a successful patent lawyer. Anna and Kathryn chat about the twist and turns of her career that got her to where she is now. They also discuss how she settled on her practice area and some of the benefits of working in patent law. Anna also shares what the patent law STEM requirements are really like, and how she balances her career and home life.

Episode Resources

• https://www.culhanemeadows.com/attorney/anna-brook/ Episode Highlights
• Why did Anna decide to go to law school? - 1:05
• Reaction when she wrote her stem coursework. - 2:47
• Becoming a patent attorney. - 3:53
• How Anna's STEM background plays a role in her day-to-day life and her skills in litigation. - 6:09
• Balancing Math and Science: Are people who can balance these two sides rare or more sought after in the legal world? - 9:02
• The benefits of working as a patent lawyer. - 10:27
• Highlights of this very niche but important area of law. - 12:21
• How Anna's career winds through to where she is now. - 13:41
• Working through making the decision and how she weighed the decision to move on. - 19:00
• Looking back: What's her advice to her younger self to make things a lot easier for her? - 20:50
• Tips, tricks, and philosophies can make sure that all the balls stay up in the air. - 23:05 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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Corporate, civil rights, criminal, family, and intellectual: These are just a few of the fields of law that you can specialize in. If you get to choose, which one would you like to focus on?

In this episode, Kathryn and Christi discussed the advice that Christi has for those trying to decide what practice works best for them. She also shares her advice for others on the path to partnership. Christi talks about what it was like working with clients on their brands during the pandemic, and what surprises she faced during that process. She also discusses how she balances pro bono work with her billable work.

Episode Resources

• https://www.duanemorris.com/attorneys/christianeschuman.html Episode Highlights
• Why did Christi Campbell go to law school? - 1:36
• Breaking it down: The process of starting at a law school to where she's at today. - 3:33
• How did she decide where to start her legal career? - 6:20
• The representation of luxury brands going together with her legal practice. - 10:24
• What parts in her practice area made it appealing to her? - 14:49
• The process of being a partner in a big law firm. - 19:04
• Biggest surprises and things that Christi's clients started doing because of COVID. - 22:24
• Tips, processes, and non-negotiables for Christi when she's trying to balance every part of her life. - 25:45
• How did spreading herself, beyond the immediate needs of her clients, help her in reaching her broader work goals? - 28:56 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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It is challenging to start a career in the legal industry, especially for women. In what was believed as a men-controlled community, how can female lawyers and legal counsels make a name for themselves?

Kathryn sits down with Michelle Browning to talk about making a voice not only as a female lawyer but also as a working mom, in the legal industry. Michelle shares her success story of building an all-girls network that started with MothersEsquire. She also discusses the different programs that MothersEsquire started to promote gender equality.

Episode Resources

• Good to Great
• My Mom, The Lawyer
• https://www.mothersesquire.com/ Episode Highlights
• Why did Michelle decide to go to law school? - 1:10
• Struggles as a working Mom: Moms feel more restricted in the ability to pick up their families and move for their careers. - 5:58
• Did her personality help her in her career and the transitions she made within it? - 7:11
• How did she think through and figure out what her legal practice would look like? - 9:24
• Starting with MothersEsquire. - 13:00
• The programs of MothersEsquire deal with gender equality. - 20:38
• Why is writing a book important? - 26:26 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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When it comes to being a lawyer, what are the adversaries and challenges that you might face?

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Betiayn as she shares the twists and turns of her career that got her to where she is today. Betiayn talks about how the legal industry has evolved, particularly in respect to diversity, during the course of her career. They also discuss what led up to the founding of WILEF and the work she's most proud of. Betiayn also shares about why WILEF decided to change the Gold Standard criteria, and the main takeaways from the most recent Gold Standard List. She gives her thoughts on the most important diversity benchmarks for the profession.

Episode Resources

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/betiayn-tursi-37950115a/
• https://wilef.com/ Episode Highlights
• The twist and turns that lead Betiayn Tursi's career to where it is now. - 0:51
• Joining ADA catapulted Betiayn's career. - 3:13
• How did her background in legal marketing play a role as she started shifting her focus into diversity issues? - 7:35
• The major evolutions in the legal industry, particularly as it relates to the question of diversity. - 9:31
• Works and programs that Betiayn participated in that she's most proud of. - 10:47
• How did the Gold Standard evolve over time? - 12:07
• How Betiayn sees the two-tier partnership in law firms impact the goals of diversity. - 15:56
• Takeaways from the most recent iteration. - 17:52
• The most important benchmarks for law firms to be hitting or for people who are thinking of latering or starting their legal career. - 20:31
• Money makes you feel good. If you're compensated correctly and you have a role in the firm, it makes all the difference in the world. - 21:56
• "I don't want people to think that being a lawyer is easy and that partnering with a law firm is easy. It's not easy. However, the people I surround myself with are all very grateful, happy, and balanced." - 23:51
• Advice that Betiayn has for people who want to be in the brass ring path. - 24:35
• Difference between a sponsor and a mentor. - 25:28 Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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Building a career in the law field can be both challenging and rewarding: Especially if your field of interest is uncommon. In today's episode, Kathryn interviews Linda Kornfeld. Linda shares why she attended law school and how she landed in her practice area: As an Insurance Recovery Attorney. She also gives advice for others who are looking for their career niche, as well as her experiences with business interruption insurance over the past year and what Biglaw can do to foster diversity.

Episode Resources

• https://www.blankrome.com/people/linda-kornfeld Episode Highlights
• Why did Linda go to law school in the first place? 1:01
• How did she decide to work as an Interest recovery attorney? - 3:15
• Checkmarks that Linda went through to see if the interest recovery area is the career of her future. - 4:59
• How she wound up on the path of her current job. - 7:43
• Balancing two hats amidst the pandemic. - 16:23
• Good and bad things in 2020 and 2021 that can help build stronger institutions in the backend. - 18:58
• The only way you can make change happen is by forcing it. - 23:20
• You got to put the right people in the room where it happens and the benefits will flow from there. - 26:52 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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Is having a law degree a great tool that opens up a lot of doors and opportunities? In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Lindsay to discuss her pivot to writing from her career in law. They discuss her process of writing her second novel and how different it is from the process of her first book. Lindsay also shares her advice for lawyers and legal professionals who are looking to break into writing.

Episode Resources

• Just One Look by Lindsay Cameron Episode Highlights
• Why did Lindsay join law school? - 1:14
• Beyond writing, what's the actual practice of law that Lindsay misses? - 3:53
• What's her background and how was she able to capture the feeling of the people in the room without necessarily being where they want to be? - 11:05
• Her fascination with the hierarchy of law firms. - 12:12
• When there's no competition, if temp workers don't have anywhere to go to, they accept any projects available. 14:40
• What people who are new in the industry should know? 15:59
• Is it true?: A law degree is a great tool as it opens up a lot of doors. - 17:40
• Is the "eat what you kill" system, where associates with large clients act bigger and with a toxic attitude, should still thrive in the industry because they're bringing in money? - 20:55
• What skills from being an associate was she able to take when writing day to day? - 24:11
• Pieces of Advice to people who want to get started in legal writing. - 25:11 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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Can someone who's not a lawyer get involved in the legal industry? In this episode, Kathryn and Ritu discussed the twists and turns of Ritu's career which led her to her current role in the male-dominated space of the legal industry. Ritu spoke about whether she ever felt her accomplishments were undermined because of her race or gender and how she dealt with those feelings. She also shared her advice for others who are coming up in white or male spaces as well as her perspective on the legal industry.

Episode Resources

• https://www.lexisnexis.com/en-us/about-us/leadership/global-leadership/ritu-khanna.page
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritu-khanna-70a4004/?originalSubdomain=uk Episode Highlights
• How does a non-lawyer get involved in the legal industry? - 1:25
• Ritu Khanna's role at LexisNexis. - 2:36
• The twists and turns of Ritu's career got her to where she is now. - 4:26
• The stumbling blocks in the industry. - 11:45
• How did Ritu navigate the male-dominated space? - 14:39
• Practical advice for people who experience a lack of reception to their ideas because of who they are. - 17:41
• Biggest career challenges. - 19:46
• Why is diversity such an asset in Ritu's industry? - 23:31 Subscribe, Share, and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player.
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