The Karen & Ellen Letters

The train goes off the tracks.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, Matt Peelen, and Chris Braaten

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Idokay
• Lee Rosevere
• Everything
• Digital Battleground
• Galactic Realms
• Roi Shpigler

Featured music: Maria Taylor

Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

In 2012, the Josh struggles with the joy vs. the reality of the letters.
In 1988, Karen honeymoons, Ellen prepares to move out, and Mark sends the girls what's left of their deposit.
In 2017, people have questions about Ellen.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Chris Braaten

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Lee Rosevere
• Topaz White
• Fifteen
• Tide
• Junk City Rejects
• Icarus
• The APX
• Roi Shpigler
  Featured music: The Bird & The Bee
  
  
  Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler
  
  

WARNING: This contains general spoilers about the scope of the Karen & Ellen Letters story. We talk around how the investigation ends, without giving away exact or detailed information.

Stephanie Sabin is a writer for WYDaily.com. More than that, she's a dear friend. And The Karen & Ellen Letters played a very significant role in both Stephanie's career and our friendship. Stephanie was a superfan of the podcast in its initial run; and now we're discussing it in depth, for the first time, since that initial investigation ended. We look at how the listening experience has changed, how society and culture have changed, and how these letters and their reality have changed us.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

In 2006, Josh begins to find evidence that three of the letter-writers actually exist.
In 1988, the girls celebrate a milestone, Karen and Mark find themselves at an impasse, and Mark finds joy in an unlikely place.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Benjamin Watkins.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Everything
• Topaz White
• Retro Chillwave
• Droid Bishop
• Channel 13
• Icarus
• Neon Lights
  Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler
  
  

WARNING: This contains mild general spoilers about the scope of the Karen & Ellen Letters story. We talk around how the investigation ends, without giving away exact or detailed information.


Charlie Worroll (Crimelines; Crimelines and Consequences) has history with The Karen & Ellen Letters going back to its days as a blog (c. 2012). Years later, we met through podcasting. In the inaugural Karen & Ellen Conversations, we discuss how the letters have changed and how we have changed over time, propriety in storytelling, ethics in found and historical documents, social blunders, being stupid teenagers, and how Karen & Ellen is so much more than just letters.


Tidbits: Charlie embarrasses herself in a train car in Seattle. Why Josh stopped using video for the original After Shows.


This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

In 2005, Josh begins trying to authenticate the letters.
In 1987, Karen and Ellen struggle with math and jurisdiction; Ellen is upset by a commercial; and Karen tells Mark about her boyfriend.
Mark begins to lose his cool.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Beth Kitcher, and Jeff Powell.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Everything
• Junk City Rejects
• Neon Coast
• Fifteen
• Neon Rider
  Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler
  
  

In 2005, Josh is gifted a stack of strange letters.
In 1987, Karen and Ellen move into their very first apartment and immediately begin terrorizing their landlord.
And so we begin to unravel a decade-long mystery with a single question: Can these letters actually be real?

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Beth Kitcher, and Jeff Powell.

Music by:

• Everything
• Junk City Rejects
• Neon Coast
• Fifteen
• Neon Rider; and
• Lee Rosevere

Featured music by: Maria Taylor

Patreon producers:
Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondance between two teenage girls and their landlord, over a three year period, from the 1980s. This podcast is the reading of those letters and a re-telling of the host's journey to authenticate them. The girls are demanding at best, the landlord is tired and impatient, the journey is the perfect blend of comedy, mystery, and cognitive dissonance.

The Karen & Ellen Letters arrive on September 5 at www.karenandellen.com.

Who's that big guy?

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Who is Patty, please?

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