If we can’t or won’t engage conflict, we can’t lead effectively. It’s as simple as that. Fortunately, managing ourselves in conflict can be learned, unlearned and re-learned as we use conflict as a powerful opportunity for growth and change.

We wrapped up part 1 with a question from Trisha, how do we manage ourselves and stay open hearted even when the other person isn't? That's where we'll pick up in this episode. And we'll also explore the fascinating world of internal family systems and helping the organizations that we're leading develop more capacity for managing conflict.

Heidi De Jonge lives in Ontario, Canada and has been an ordained minister in the Christian Reformed Church for 17 years–serving as pastor for congregations, a seminary, a university and health care. She also works in the area of conflict transformation as a restorative practitioner with FaithCARE and a trainer with The Colossian Forum. Heidi received her doctorate in ministry from Western Theological Seminary in 2018, studying and writing about conflict as an opportunity for discipleship and transformation. She and her husband, Tim, have three daughters (Naomi, Samara and Zoe, 12 to 16) and a beloved husky-lab named Nevada.

Brian Keepers has been an ordained pastor in the Reformed Church in America for 22 years. He has served three different congregations in the midwest, and he is currently serving as the lead pastor of Trinity Reformed Church in Orange City, IA. He is married to Tammy (24 years this August) and they have two daughters–Emma who is 20 and Abby who is 15 years old. They also have a granddaughter named Luna who is 2 1/2 years old. Brian loves art, reading, being outdoors, spending time with people, and getting to be “Poppy” to his granddaughter. He also loves to learn, especially at the intersection of theology, psychology and leadership.

• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick Lencioni
• Christ the Center by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
• Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, et al.
• Fierce Conversations: Achieving Success at Work and in Life, One Conversation at a Time by Susan Scott.
• Leading Through Conflict: How Successful Leaders Transform Differences into Opportunities by Mark Gerzon.

If we can’t or won’t engage conflict, we can’t lead effectively. It’s as simple as that. Fortunately, managing ourselves in conflict can be learned, unlearned and re-learned as we use conflict as a powerful opportunity for growth and change.

• What is the goal of conflict?
• Mental models of conflict
• Formative experiences with conflict
• “Truth is not something in itself which rests for itself, but something that happens between two. Truth happens only in community.”
• Crucial conversations
• Growing our capacity to manage conflict
• Container conversations

Heidi De Jonge lives in Ontario, Canada and has been an ordained minister in the Christian Reformed Church for 17 years–serving as pastor for congregations, a seminary, a university and health care. She also works in the area of conflict transformation as a restorative practitioner with FaithCARE and a trainer with The Colossian Forum. Heidi received her doctorate in ministry from Western Theological Seminary in 2018, studying and writing about conflict as an opportunity for discipleship and transformation. She and her husband, Tim, have three daughters (Naomi, Samara and Zoe, 12 to 16) and a beloved husky-lab named Nevada.

Brian Keepers has been an ordained pastor in the Reformed Church in America for 22 years. He has served three different congregations in the midwest, and he is currently serving as the lead pastor of Trinity Reformed Church in Orange City, IA. He is married to Tammy (24 years this August) and they have two daughters–Emma who is 20 and Abby who is 15 years old. They also have a granddaughter named Luna who is 2 1/2 years old. Brian loves art, reading, being outdoors, spending time with people, and getting to be “Poppy” to his granddaughter. He also loves to learn, especially at the intersection of theology, psychology and leadership.

• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick Lencioni
• Christ the Center by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
• Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, et al.
• Fierce Conversations: Achieving Success at Work and in Life, One Conversation at a Time by Susan Scott.
• Leading Through Conflict: How Successful Leaders Transform Differences into Opportunities by Mark Gerzon.

Welcome back to another episode of The Leader's Journey podcast. Today we're sharing one of our favorite episodes from 2019, Quit Getting In Your Own Way. This episode is a deep dive into the complexities of leadership and the often-overlooked reality that we can be our own biggest obstacles.

Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your leadership journey, this episode offers valuable insights into self-awareness and the power of understanding and unlearning our behaviors.

We hope this conversation is helpful on your journey to get out of your own way

• True self and false self
• We all have needs and we all have wounds
• Meaning-making
• How do we learn to see ourselves?
• How do we reprogram the autopilot?

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Chuck DeGroat to talk about the natural reactivity we have to anxiety. We’ve talked a lot about fight and flight, conflict and distancing, but we don’t always add two other instinctive reactions: freeze and fawn. 

We may aspire to peace-making but we often settle for peace keeping and people-pleasing. When we can see our fawn response, we can stop hiding and courageously choose genuine connection instead.

Conversation Overview: 

• Chuck's tweet that inspired this conversation
• How does the fawn response mimic healthy connection while also undermining it?
• How does the fawn response show up in leadership?
• How do we connect the fawn response to anxiety?
• What might we do instead of fawning?

References: 

• Link to Chuck's Tweet
• Chuck Degroat Website
• https://twitter.com/chuckdegroat
• @chuckdegroat on Threads
• Janina Fisher 
• The Fifth Discipline: The art and practice of the learning organization
• Healing Developmental Trauma: How Early Trauma Affects Self-Regulation, Self-Image, and the Capacity for Relationship
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable

We grow our emotional maturity when we see ourselves and our relationships as part of creation and stay in touch with the natural world around us.

Conversation overview: 

• Are we, humans, disconnected from nature?
• What is the relationship between emotional maturity and connection to the natural world?
• What are some practices that can bring us back into connection with nature?

Links: 

• Steven Chase called Nature A Spiritual Practice
• iNaturalist
• Seek App
• "To make a prairie" by Emily Dickson
• The Peace of Wild Things Written and read by Wendell Berry

In this episode, we continue our series on learning to managing self in triangles. Joining us for this conversation is our esteemed guest and good friend, Steve Cuss. As a reminder, this series is exploring the idea that triangles are neither good nor bad, but they are tricky and when you can see the triangles you’re in and understand how they work, you have a better chance of not only surviving them but offering calm, principled leadership in the midst of them.

Conversation Overview: 

• What are some common ways that leaders in particular show up in triangles?
• How do we get drawn into triangles? 
• How does being in leadership impact how we show up in triangles? 
• What kinds of triangles are we tempted to light up ourselves?
• What are some basic principles–and practices– about how we can better manage ourselves more thoughtfully in these tricky triangle situations? 

Links:

• Steve Cuss Website
• Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs
• Family Systems and Congregational Life: A Map for Ministry

Triangles are not good or bad….but they are tricky.

We're excited to kick off our new two-part series, "Managing Self in Triangles". Our guest for this episode is Dr. Jenny Brown, the founder and executive director of the Family Systems Institute and Family Systems Practice in Sydney, Australia. 

Dr. Brown is the author of the insightful book, "Growing Yourself Up: How to bring your best to all of life’s relationships", which provides practical guidance on personal development within the context of our relationships. She is also the co-author of "Bowen family systems theory in Christian ministry: Grappling with Theory and its Application Through a Biblical Lens", a thought-provoking exploration of the Bowen family systems theory within the context of Christian ministry.

In addition to her writing and counseling work, Dr. Brown is lead the Parent Hope Project. This initiative equips clinicians to effectively engage parents of symptomatic children, adolescents, and young adults, providing a roadmap for parents to discover ways they can change their part in dynamics that are inadvertently impeding their young person’s development of self-regulation and responsibility.

Conversation Overview:

• Are triangles bad?
• What are triangles for?
• What is the difference between triangles and triangulating?
• What are some of the predictable ways that triangles work?
• How do you remain in an outside or neutral position?

Links and References:

• Growing Yourself Up: How to bring your best to all of life’s relationships
• Bowen family systems theory in Christian ministry: Grappling with Theory and its Application Through a Biblical Len
• Family Systems Institute
• Parent Hope Project
• Dr Jenny Brown's Blog

In this episode, Jim and Trisha look back on The Leader's Journey, discuss key lessons and express gratitude for their clients, listeners, and the growth they've experienced through their work. We hope you'll connect with this authentic conversation. 

Conversation Overview:

• Jim & Trisha discuss their history working together
• The context, culture, and spaces they work in
• The value of collaboration in their work
• The learning community they have developed
• The importance of learning
• The challenges of changing behavior
• Accountability in the learning process

References & Links: 

• Tim McGee (personal, agency)
• Faithwalking
• The Podcast series on race
  • Listening and Learning: An African-American Leader Shares His Story
  • Changing Our Minds: How learning to see God and the world differently changed our view on race
  • How We Got Here: Reflecting on our learning about race
• The series on trauma
  • An introduction to trauma part 1
  • An introduction to trauma part 2
• The series on power dynamics
  • The Balance of Power: How trustworthy and transformative leaders balance authority and vulnerability creating space for flourishing
  • Power Dynamics and Conflict: A conversation for trustworthy and transformative leaders
  • Power Dynamics for Trustworthy and Transformative Leaders
  • Using and Sharing Power to Create a More Just and Equitable Community
• Todd Bolsinger
• Juanita Rasmus
• Mandy Smith
• Phuc Luu
• Chuck Degrow
• Steve Cuss
• Robert Creech

Knowing and doing the right thing is hard. Staying calm and saying the course in the face of the resulting opposition can be even harder, and requires us to practice courage intentionally. 

In this episode, the third in our series on courage, Jim and Trisha are joined by Jessica Shults and Mac McCarthy who discuss their unique, yet similar, pastoral stories about leading congregations through hard things in different ways. Together they talk about different practices that can be used to help grow courage in challenging circumstances.

Conversation Overview

• Being courageous in challenging established mental models can effectively lead people into new ways of thinking
• Having a sense of calling, utilizing the help of others, and having to revisit challenging things over and over again are all ways help us work on courage
• The practice of controlling our own self-care, in addition to letting other help us carry the weight of change, helps us to be able to focus in on how to handle challenging opposition in the right ways
• Staying connected and staying the course while defining oneself are two styles of leadership that we can learn from to grow our emotional maturity

Links & References

Edwin Friedman Books

Speeches By Martin Luther King Jr.: The Ultimate Collection

Todd Bolsinger Books

The Colossian Forum

Crosspoint Church Podcast and Blog

The Leader’s Journey Website

The Leader’s Journey E-mail List

Facing trauma and pain in constructive and redemptive ways requires us to practice courage intentionally. With David Zailer, author of Death of a Fisherman, Trisha and Jim continue their series on courage. Together they discuss an important question from David’s life and book: “How will you and I grow through hardship and suffering?”

Conversation Overview

• It takes courage to face our past traumas in order to grow emotionally
• The path to healing from addiction
• Connection and heal from pain
• The willingness to do small things

Links & References

• Death of a Fisherman by David Zailer
• The Allender Center
• National Domestic Violence Hotline
• Child Abuse Hotline
• Suicide and Crisis Lifeline
• Alcoholics Anonymous
• Narcotics Anonymous
• Operation Integrity
• The Leader's Journey - An Introduction to Trauma for Leaders Series
• The Leader’s Journey Website
• The Leader’s Journey E-mail List