The Loving Leverage Podcast

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Discovery doesn't only hurt. For many partners it shakes their sense of reality, safety, and trust in their own judgment. And for years, the helping world told those partners they were part of the problem.

Jeanne Vattuone has spent her career changing that. Jeanne is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, a certified sex addiction therapist and supervisor, a certified partner trauma therapist, cofounder of Willow Tree Healing and Recovery in Santa Rosa, California, and coauthor of the workbook Finding the Way Through. She's also a longtime leader and board member of APSATS, the organization that helped the field name betrayal trauma. When she booked this episode, she asked to build the whole conversation around one thing: partner sensitivity.

In this conversation, Jeanne and Drew cover:

• Moving from two decades of trauma work into sex addiction treatment, back when the coaddict model was the only option offered to partners
• Why Finding the Way Through brings the betrayed partner's perspective into every chapter of a workbook written for the person with the compulsive behavior
• Willow Tree's three steps: get sober, learn to stay sober in this world, then understand why
• What discovery does to a partner, and what friends, family, pastors, and professionals should say (and never say) in those first days
• Why a trauma lens fits partners better than the old labels, and why you treat the gunshot wound first
• The growing number of betrayed men asking for help, and why the field's language has to change
• Therapeutic disclosure as structured truth telling, not a verdict on the marriage, why Willow Tree spreads it over two days, and when an emergency disclosure makes sense
• Why disclosure is a launch point and not an end point, and how integrity, not obligation, drives repair
• Where to find hope and the right specialized help

If you're the partner who's been carrying this alone, or the man who wants to understand what they're really going through, this episode is for you.

Learn more about Jeanne's work at willowtreehealingrecovery.com, and find Finding the Way Through wherever you get your books.

About Valiant Living:
Valiant Living is a men's residential treatment program in Greenwood Village, Colorado, helping men 26 and older move from addiction to connection. Loving Leverage™ is the family framework created by founder Michael Dinneen, LCSW, CSAT-S. Learn more at valiantliving.com or call our admissions line at 720-669-1285. A real person picks up.

Show notes and links: valiantliving.com/episode71

The Loving Leverage Podcast is presented by Valiant Living and hosted by Drew Powell, Recovery Advocate / Alumnus.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

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Love can look heroic while it quietly keeps the cycle alive. When someone we love is stuck in addiction, the instinct is to fix, cover, explain, and cushion the consequences. But what if the most loving move is to stop rescuing?

Drew is joined by Ian and Roxcy Brown, co founders of Iron Ridge Recovery in Texas, the first intensive outpatient program in the state built specifically for men with compulsive sexual behavior. Here's the tension at the center of this conversation. On one side, a man saying, in so many words, I need you to stay so I can be okay. On the other, the person who loves him saying, I need you to change so I can be okay. Both are exhausted. Both are stuck. Ian and Roxcy offer a third path.

You'll hear:

• Why sex addiction is rarely one man's secret problem and almost always a family systems crisis, and how a household quietly reorganizes around it, kids included
• Drew on what it took to relieve his own older kids of the adult roles they took on during his treatment
• The addiction cycle in plain terms: preoccupation, ritual, acting out, shame crash, repeat, and why the shame is the driver
• Why remorse is a feeling, not a plan, and why partners are coached to look for patterns over words
• What betrayal trauma does to a partner's nervous system, and why her "crazy" responses are the most normal thing happening
• Carried shame, and the work of separating what's hers from what isn't
• Why the disease model reduces shame without excusing behavior
• Don't steal someone's rock bottom: why cushioning the consequences robs a man of the pain he needs to change
• Compliance versus recovery: why checking the boxes falls apart, and what it looks like when a man stops chasing an outcome he can't control

If you're caught between staying and leaving, or between managing his recovery and giving up, this one is for you.

Learn more about Ian and Roxcy's work at Iron Ridge Recovery https://www.ironridgerecovery.com/

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

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The hardest part of getting a man into treatment is rarely finding the right program. It's the moment a smart, successful, "I'm fine" kind of man starts negotiating for control while the people who love him are running out of hope.

This is the first Mondays with Michael, a bonus series on The Loving Leverage Podcast that drops on Mondays whenever there's a conversation worth sharing. Every Monday, Drew Powell and Valiant Living founder Michael Dinneen, LCSW, CSAT-S get on a call that is supposed to be about business. It always gets there eventually. But before the agenda, they end up in a real conversation about recovery, family, and what loving leverage looks like when it leaves the whiteboard. Every so often, Drew hits record.

In this one, Drew and Michael walk through a real intervention from the past week (names and details changed to protect everyone involved). A man who kept insisting he was fine. A wife and daughter who had tried everything they knew to try. And the specific moves that family made, with Michael's coaching, that got him through the doors of the men's program two days later.

You'll hear:

• Why the first draft of the impact letter had to be rewritten, and what changed when it led with love instead of accusation
• Why the consequence belongs at the end of the letter, not the beginning
• The "broken record" response that kept the family from getting pulled into his demands, threats, and rabbit holes
• Why reframing it as "family versus the disease" instead of "wife versus husband" changed everything
• What is actually going on when an addict keeps fighting for one last piece of control, even on the way to rehab
• Why Valiant is careful with the word codependency in early family work, and what is usually underneath it
• The performance wound: the belief that people will leave you if you stop performing, and what happens when someone doesn't leave
• Drew and Michael each share a moment from the same weekend where they lost their cool with family, went into a shame spiral, and had to repair
• Sideways emotions: why the thing you blew up about is rarely the thing you're actually carrying

If you have a man in your life who keeps saying he's fine, you're going to recognize this story. What this family did is learnable. It's not about being harsh and it's not about being a doormat. It's about loving someone enough to stop making it easy for him to stay stuck.

If you like this format, let us know. It helps us decide how often to hit record.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don't have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more at www.valiantliving.com or call our admissions line at (720) 669-1285. A real person picks up.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

Send us Fan Mail

On paper, Jeff Hatch's early twenties looked like a highlight reel. All-American at Penn, third round pick by the New York Giants, a million dollar contract. What nobody saw was the kid underneath who'd learned to hide, and then the injuries, the prescriptions, and the alcohol that quietly took over. Jeff got sober in 2006 and spent years helping other men find recovery. Then in 2019, in a very public way, it all came apart again.

Jeff doesn't skip that chapter. He walks right through it. Today he's a Certified High Performance Coach whose BREAKTHROUGH program works with business leaders, athletes in transition, and men in recovery who are done pretending.

In this conversation, Jeff and Drew cover:

· Growing up in a home that expected achievement and strict positivity, and what young Jeff learned to hide
 · The gap between the highlight reel and what was really going on
 · When the pills stopped being about his back and started being about everything else
 · Losing football and staring into the mirror wondering who was underneath
 · The 2019 chapter, and what the second surrender taught him that the first one didn't
 · What secrets cost a man living a double life
 · Learning to sit with pain instead of pushing through it
 · What Loving Leverage looked like from the receiving end, and what Jeff would say to the wife or parent trying to hold that line right now

Connect with Jeff at hatch-coaching.com.

About Valiant Living
 Valiant Living is a men's residential treatment program in Greenwood Village, Colorado, helping men 26 and older move from addiction to connection. Loving Leverage™ is the family framework created by founder Michael Dinneen, LCSW, CSAT-S. Learn more at valiantliving.com or call our admissions line at 720-669-1285. A real person picks up.

Show notes and links: valiantliving.com/episode69

The Loving Leverage Podcast is presented by Valiant Living and hosted by Drew Powell, Recovery Advocate / Alumnus.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

Send us Fan Mail

Love can sound soft until it starts telling the truth. That’s the heartbeat behind our rebrand to the Loving Leverage Podcast, and it’s why we believe boundaries can be one of the most compassionate tools in addiction recovery. When addiction is running the show, everyone gets pulled into the same exhausting loop: promises, bargaining, secrecy, shame, and the constant attempt to “manage” what can’t be managed alone. We want a better way forward for addicts and for the families who are trying to survive the fallout.

We’re joined by Valiant’s founder, Michael Denine, to unpack what “loving leverage” really means and why it’s not about choosing sides. Michael shares his own moment of bottom and surrender, the kind that doesn’t arrive as a neat breakthrough but as a desperate willingness to accept help. We talk about why spouses and parents often need a team around them, how trauma can get mislabeled as “codependency,” and why follow-through matters more than threats. If you’ve ever felt like you’re negotiating with someone who can’t think straight, you’ll recognize the patterns and the relief of a clear plan.

We also zoom out to the bigger recovery framework: the addiction cycle, the brain’s rationalizations, the role of shame, and why real change usually requires coordinated support (therapist, CSAT, sponsor, treatment, and family boundaries working together). We end with a question that cuts through excuses: do you actually want to be healed?

Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more families can find practical help and real hope.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

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"My husband is a narcissist." It's one of the most common things families say when they call for help. But is it true narcissism, or something else entirely?

In this episode, Drew sits down with Dr. Alexandra Repke, a licensed psychologist who specializes in personality disorders and their overlap with addiction. Recorded live at the Hope for Healing conference by Lit Path, this conversation unpacks the blind spot that keeps some people stuck no matter how much treatment they get.

Dr. Repke explains the difference between a personality issue and a true personality disorder, why trauma treatment can actually make a personality disorder worse, and what's really underneath narcissism and borderline personality disorder. Most importantly, she pushes back on the idea that these diagnoses are hopeless. With the right treatment, real change is possible.

In this conversation:

· Personality as your psychological toolkit

· Personality issues vs. personality disorders

· Why some people don't get better in treatment

· Narcissism as a lack of access to equality

· Borderline as a cage of extremes

· What families should do next, and what makes things worse

· Why treatment takes 12 to 18 months, and why there's real hope

This is also the final episode of the Valiant Living Podcast. Starting next episode we become the Loving Leverage Podcast. Same show, same feed, sharper focus on the families, partners, and parents who love someone struggling with addiction. Michael Dinneen joins Drew next time to unpack what Loving Leverage means.

Learn more about Dr. Repke's work at repkepsychologicalservices.com

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

Send us Fan Mail

The most damaging myth about recovery is that it is mainly about stopping something. We believe it is about building something: a life where you can handle stress, emotions, relationships, and uncertainty without reaching for old patterns. That is why I sat down with Melissa, our Director of Wellness, to unpack the Five Pillars of Wellness that shape the daily rhythm of Valiant: physical, mental, emotional, social, and spiritual wellness. This framework is not fluffy or abstract. It is a simple way to rebuild your relationship with yourself from the inside out, one week at a time. 

We also dig into a phrase we are starting to use more intentionally: experiential healing. Hiking, breathwork, sound baths, cold water, yoga, and longer off-grid “experiential immersions” are not rewards or distractions. They are designed spaces where defenses drop, trust grows, and deeper work can finally surface. Melissa shares why nature and somatic practices can unlock breakthroughs that do not always happen in a chair, and how we build in real processing so the experience turns into insight and change. 

You will hear exactly how we make wellness practical through a weekly five pillars check-in, where each person chooses one small, specific, achievable goal per pillar. We talk about accountability, reducing overwhelm, and how this same tool can strengthen relationships through a couples version that improves communication and shared habits. Melissa also previews a powerful theme on non-attachment, including an exercise that makes emotional baggage literal and shows the cost of clinging too tightly. 

Grab the free Five Pillars of Wellness guide with reflection questions and weekly check-ins at ValiantLiving.com/episode66, and if this helps you, subscribe, share it with someone you love, and leave a review so more people can find real tools for lasting recovery.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

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Complex case management sounds like paperwork until you see what it really is: the difference between a client staying engaged or falling through the cracks. We bring together a roundtable of experienced leaders in addiction treatment and recovery to talk candidly about what “complex” looks like now and why it keeps evolving. We get into whole-person care, family systems, trauma, and the real-world barriers that show up the moment someone tries to step down in the continuum of care. 

We also dig into the clinical patterns we’re seeing more often, including bipolar disorder and suicide risk in high-performing clients who have built an identity around holding it all together. The conversation turns to substance trends that are reshaping treatment planning, including high-potency THC and the growing concern about psychosis and repeat episodes, plus kratom and how it’s being marketed as focus and stress relief. These aren’t abstract talking points; they change how we assess risk, stabilize the nervous system, and coordinate longer-term support. 

From there, we talk denial as a survival strategy, how stigma keeps people from naming trauma, and why some environments, including parts of church culture, can unintentionally encourage spiritual bypassing instead of honest help-seeking. We close with practical, actionable ways clinicians and programs can improve outcomes now: earlier collaboration, warm handoffs, involving families and outside providers sooner, and building teams that include peer support. If you care about trauma-informed care, co-occurring disorders, and better care coordination in addiction treatment, this conversation will sharpen how you think and how you plan. 

Subscribe for future roundtables, share this with a clinician or loved one, and leave a review with the biggest challenge you’re seeing in complex cases.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

Send us Fan Mail

Prayer can feel like a talent you either have or you don’t. If you’ve ever sat in a 12-step meeting, heard the Lord’s Prayer, and realized you’re just repeating words without connection, you’re not alone. Drew Powell sits down with his close friend Matt Smallbone, a pastor, former touring musician, and the author of The Prayer Experiment: How Praying Like Jesus Realigns Everything, to talk about a surprising path back to honest, grounded prayer.

Matt tells the story behind his “experiment”: stepping into a preaching series on the Lord’s Prayer while feeling like an imposter, wrestling with unanswered prayer after miscarriage, and carrying half-formed beliefs about God’s sovereignty that quietly killed his motivation to pray. His response was not a new technique or longer prayers. He committed to praying the Lord’s Prayer every day for a year, then using it as a framework by pausing after each line and speaking plainly, without trying to sound spiritual.

We walk through surrender, daily dependence, forgiveness, and how “Our Father” breaks isolation, which is especially powerful in addiction recovery. We also talk candidly about father wounds, shame, triggers, and why “lead us not into temptation” can be prayed as “help me pass the test.” Then we get practical: Matt role-plays how to pray through a gambling addiction spiral and how a betrayed partner can pray through anger, therapy, boundaries, and the slow work of forgiveness. If you’re looking for a simple Christian prayer practice, recovery-friendly spirituality, or a way to pray again without performing, this conversation gives you a clear starting point.

Subscribe to the Valiant Living Podcast, share this with someone who needs hope today, and leave a review so more people can find these tools for healing and connection.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

Send us Fan Mail

A mother and daughter getting sober at the same time sounds inspiring, until you hear what it actually takes: naming the family patterns, setting real boundaries, and staying in the room for the hard conversations. I’m joined by Sherry Young and Julie Hurley to talk about how addiction shows up inside a family system and how recovery becomes possible when we stop performing “fine” and start telling the truth. Their story spans early drinking, blackout shame, high-functioning denial, and the moment consequences finally force clarity.

We dig into rebuilding trust after addiction, what forgiveness does and does not mean, and why emotional connection matters more than perfect parenting. Julie shares what it looks like to be sober while still repeating old patterns, and Sherry reflects on growing up around alcoholism and how that shaped control, safety, and the hunger for attachment. If you’ve ever felt “manageably unmanageable,” this conversation puts language to that experience and offers a path forward grounded in community and humility.

We also talk about the work they do through Right Fit, helping families, therapists, and treatment professionals navigate complex case management, higher levels of care, and the messy reality of crisis. You’ll hear practical guidance for moms who feel lost, including how to get curious, ask for help, and put the oxygen mask on first.

If you find this helpful, subscribe, share the episode with someone who needs hope today, and leave a review so more families can find these recovery stories.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.