The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast

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Chris Maffeo is welcoming Claire Warner, the founder of the Good Measure Guild and former Global Head of Advocacy at Diageo.

Why does the on-trade keep getting deprioritised despite being where brands are actually built?
Why is advocacy impossible to measure and what happens to brands when they stop investing in it?
Are cocktail competitions a genuine learning tool or a shortcut that breaks the ecosystem?
And why is the middle tier of bars the most overlooked commercial opportunity in the industry?

Find all episodes featuring Claire Warner at themaffeodrinkspodcast.com.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 Welcome and introductions
• 00:33 The Good Measure Guild, measuring what matters in hospitality
• 05:21 The measurement problem, why the on-trade gets deprioritised
• 07:10 Advocacy and brand cycles, why the bartender is the first customer
• 13:50 The overlooked middle tier and secondary cities
• 18:30 Competitions as a learning tool
• 27:14 Beyond competitions, building brand relevance
• 32:27 Training and minimum standards
• 37:19 Consumer education, no and low
• 47:11 The social score vision
• 49:28 Closing thoughts

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

Kaitlin Wilkes is Co-founder of The Ada Coleman Project.

“I would rather have fifty accounts pouring two to three bottles of my spirit a week because they love the cocktail,” says Wilkes, “than three hundred accounts that are selling a quarter of a bottle.”

00:00 Why is the drinks industry actually two separate industries wearing one liquid as a disguise?
00:42 What changed when Kaitlin realized bartending and brand marketing were different worlds?
02:44 How does showing up authentically at a bar close the gap with a bartender?
03:58 Why do finance and marketing teams struggle to understand on-trade spend?
05:04 What’s the real purpose of flying a bartender across the world for a guest shift?
06:25 Why should a brand pick partners who genuinely fit, not just any account willing to say yes?
08:24 How should a small brand approach a bar’s menu when it can’t afford the listing fee?
13:32 Why would fifty loyal accounts beat three hundred weak ones every time?

Find all episodes featuring Kaitlin Wilkes at themaffeodrinkspodcast.com.

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

Paul Hletko is Founder & Distiller at Few Spirits

“You will always be the best salesman for your product,” says Hletko. “Your job is to be so good at it that you have to hire three people to replace you.”

00:00 Why does a founder have to be the brand’s first salesman?
00:41 What makes a founder more credible than any brand ambassador?
02:50 How do you create demand before your team can even capture it?
03:16 Why do things that don’t scale still matter?
05:24 What does it mean to fire yourself when you hire someone?
07:35 How is a brand built bottom up while the business runs top down?
08:38 How do you segment the trade between Italian restaurants and college bars?
11:12 Why do you lose a customer the moment you forget your own occasion?
12:43 What does a distributor actually need before saying yes?
15:30 What’s the one question that actually gets you picked up by a distributor?

Find all episodes featuring Paul Hletko at themaffeodrinkspodcast.com.

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

Chris Maffeo is welcoming Jean-Robert Bellanger, co-founder of Amaretto Adriatico, the new-generation amaretto brand from Puglia available in more than 40 countries.

How do you build a brand in a category nobody is paying attention to?
Why does drink strategy matter more than product quality alone?
How do you manage a portfolio across different ABV levels and limited editions without losing focus?
And why is reinventing something that already exists always more powerful than inventing something from scratch?

Find all episodes featuring Jean-Robert Bellanger at themaffeodrinkspodcast.com.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 Introduction, BCB Berlin and launching Amaretto Adriatico just before COVID
• 01:33 Reviving the amaretto category, the Amaretto Sour and what Jeffrey Morgenthaler changed
• 04:57 Why most amaretto is no longer made with almonds and the gap Amaretto Adriatico was built to fill
• 08:17 Movement as a brand strategy, how new recipes recruit new drinkers into a category
• 13:25 Spotting cocktails versus inventing them, Campari and the Negroni, Aperol and the Spritz
• 18:36 The three SKU portfolio, how Adriatico Roasted, Bianco and Zero came about
• 24:20 How different markets consume the product, Italy versus UK versus America
• 30:09 The role of the homeland, why being distributed by Velier in Italy opened every door after
• 33:44 Boots on the ground, why distribution without people on the field is useless
• 40:00 Collaborations as a brand building tool, from cognac cocktail kits to chocolate in duty free
• 49:45 Limited editions, Evan Williams bourbon cask, Caroni, Bonollo Grappa and Maison Ferrand cognac
• 53:00 The US push and final thoughts, go where nobody else is and do not read IWSR data alone

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

Paul Thomas is Global Consumer & Shopper Insight Director at Imperial Brands, formerly Global Insight Director at Beam Suntory.

Why do bartenders know more than a hundred-thousand-pound research report?
How does the Japanese concept of Gemba change the way brands gather insight?
What actually happens when marketers stop hiding behind PowerPoint and go to the bar?

Timestamps :

00:00 Insights at the Bar

00:26 Insight vs Research

01:17 Back to the Field

02:52 Talking to Bartenders

04:36 See the Real World

06:54 Gemba and Being There

08:03 Work Not Partying

09:53 Selling Story That Helps

11:34 Innovation On vs Off Trade

14:23 Manage Brand Expectations

16:05 Innovation Beyond New Liquids

17:09 Rituals and Consistency

19:18 True to the Liquid

Find all episodes featuring Paul Thomas at themaffeodrinkspodcast.com

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

Daniel Szor is the founder of Cotswolds Distillery, one of the first four distilleries ever to make whisky in England. 

How do you build a brand in a category that does not exist yet? 
Why does owning a clear drinking occasion matter more than chasing prestige? 
And why did Daniel pledge 100 days in trade after hiring a CEO, instead of stepping back?

Timestamps :

00:00 English Whiskey Boom

01:02 New World Whiskey Mindset

02:28 New World Wine Parallel

04:14 Kavalan and Word of Mouth

05:26 Brand Message Distilled

06:24 Occasion and Audience

08:09 Core Range Strategy

09:44 Signature Whisky Explained

12:51 Selling in the On Trade

14:04 Founder Back on the Road

14:46 Tastings and Persistence

16:00 No Magic Just Grit

Find all episodes featuring Daniel Szor at themaffeodrinkspodcast.com.

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

This episode sits on one hard truth: the minute you launch, the brand stops being yours. Mark Ward founded Regal Rogue and has spent fifteen years watching venues and drinkers redefine his vermouth’s serve and occasion, from a keg spritz that started in an Australian bar to a Negroni twist a Brighton restaurant will not let him change.

The conversation covers the pilot-not-dictator model of brand ownership, the “invisible reputation” that has to stand up when you are not in the room, why bottom-up market observation beats top-down playbooks, what it means to win your home turf, and the surprisingly radical idea of scrapping every product but one.

It is a fifteen-year founder’s account of following the market instead of fighting it.

Timestamps:

• 00:06 The Bottom-Up Mentality in Business
• 00:42 Consumer Feedback and Brand Adaptation
• 01:25 Innovative Serving Ideas
• 02:23 Challenges in the Vermouth Market
• 04:41 Brand Stories and Market Strategies
• 17:07 The Importance of Home Market Presence
• 22:21 Finding the Right Channel and Occasion
• 28:30 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

Imme Ermgassen is a co-founder of Botivo, a big-sipping botanical aperitivo.
- How to build a non-alc brand as a pleasure rather than as a moderation brand
- How do you own both a drinking occasion and a moment in the consumer's mind? 
- Why did Botivo create the Yellow Hour instead of just launching a product? 
- And why is the real target consumer a mindset rather than an age group?

Timestamps :

00:00 Pleasure Not Moderation

00:17 Craft And Provenance

01:13 A Powerful Versatile Liquid

02:07 Building A New Category

02:58 Naming The Occasion

04:32 The Yellow Hour Moment

06:29 Not An Alcohol Substitute

07:40 Origins In Aperitivo

09:04 Hedonism Mindset Consumer

12:19 Bringing The World To Life

14:04 Everyone Gets A Glass

14:42 Who Actually Buys It

16:08 Channel And Trade Takeaways

Find all episodes featuring Imme Ermgassen at themaffeodrinkspodcast.com. 

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

This episode is a working session on how to build a non-alcoholic brand that does not announce its own absence. Steven Grasse, the brand-builder behind Hendrick’s, Sailor Jerry, and Quaker City Mercantile, breaks down Pathfinder: a hemp-and-root-distilled, amaro-style non-alcoholic spirit that entered every Total Wine and Whole Foods without a trial.

The conversation covers why non-alcoholic brands must not be “stupid,” the comparison trap of positioning as a replacement, brand mysticism as a method that transcends category, the four pillars of brand creation, launching on-premise first, designing a liquid versatile enough to be a “bartender’s ketchup,” the discipline of owning a home turf before the hot cities, and the regulatory freedom that lets a non-alcoholic brand be weirder than any spirit.

It is a masterclass in building a great brand that just happens to not have alcohol.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 Introduction to the Pathfinder
• 00:49 The Origin Story of Pathfinder
• 02:14 Crafting the Unique Flavor Profile
• 04:38 Marketing Strategy and Brand Positioning
• 11:26 Launching Pathfinder in Seattle
• 15:43 The Mystical and Historical Elements
• 18:40 Pathfinder’s Market Success and Future
• 25:11 Final Thoughts and Conclusion

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.

Join The Maffeo Drinks Substack for Episode Analysis!

This Bottom-up Cut is with Jack Orr-Ewing, the founder and CEO of Duppy Share, the UK's largest independent rum brand. 

When should an independent spirits brand start investing in consumer marketing? 
How do you take the first steps in the market?
How do you select the right accounts at the right stage? 
And what happens when you try to own an occasion the market hasn't asked for?

Timestamps :

00:00 Welcome and Intro

00:21 Demand vs Awareness

01:43 Delay Consumer Spend

02:58 Events Need Distribution

04:29 Entering New Markets

05:53 London Roots to Nationals

08:01 Rum Lacks Cuisine Anchor

09:55 Ideal Outlet Targets

11:26 Rum Occasion Challenge

13:25 Nimble Trade Execution

14:13 Closing Thoughts

Find all episodes featuring Jack Orr-Ewing at themaffeodrinkspodcast.com.

Chris Maffeo hosted this episode, brought to you by MAFFEO DRINKS.

MAFFEO DRINKS is a leading drinks business podcast, listened to in 120 countries with 130+ episodes. How the industry actually works, from the bar to the boardroom.

Wanna know what the conversation above means for your team? It's in the paid section.

You get access to Maffeo Confidential (Private Podcast), this analysis, and the full catalog of 130+ episodes, each one translating industry conversation into the commercial decisions underneath it. Find out more at maffeodrinks.com or on Substack.