There’s something nostalgic about an underfolder. For me, it evokes Red Dawn and my impressionable Cold War-era youth. But there’s not an underfolder in the 1984 Red Dawn (or the 2012 version either, though I haven’t bothered with watching that one). As close as either film comes is a triangle folding stock.

Still, I have to resist the temptation to scream, “Wolverines!” The gun range where I shoot is hardly restrictive, though they maintain an unflinching dedication to professional decorum, and waving rifles over your head and shouting 40-year-old movie dialogue tends to draw unwanted attention. I did fire off a few from the hip, though, scarring the hell out of, but not hitting my target.

I’ve been a dedicated AK fan for at least two decades, and this is a first for me—actually, two firsts: my first under folder and my first Palmetto State Armory AK-47.

There’s a good reason why the PSA AK-47 line looks so much like a classic AK-47. Importing these has become much harder in the last few decades. Let’s take a step back.

AKs used to roll in, like surplus guns. After a crackdown on these guns (they tend to be associated with atrocities and war, and this has a way of drawing the wrong kind of attention from legislators), the guns were still imported. They were, however, neutered before they hit these shores. You may have heard the term “sporterized.” This meant they had modifications (or were manufactured to new specifications) that removed some of the more “terrifying” pistol grips and muzzle device-type things.

These guns typically had single-stack mags, the triggers were farther back (where the grip is on most AKs), the pistol grip and any fancy rails were missing, and the muzzle ended in a simple crown with no threads.

On this side of the pond, companies would reconstruct the guns, typically restoring them to their original design. In doing so, they had to replace some parts with parts made in the US. This is how they complied with what most of us know as “922(r).” In short, the rebuilt, more American guns were legal.

Was rebuilding and replacing parts less expensive than building from scratch? Yes, for a while. We’re talking about evolving laws that have been moving the goalposts for decades here.

In the last decade, though, it has gotten harder to get solid AKs through customs. The restrictions on importation and a shifting political landscape have changed the cost structure. PSA must have done the math, as their AKs are made here in the USA.

This is a third-generation build. It has a hammer-forged barrel, bolt, and carrier, and (an upgrade from second-generation guns) the trunnion is milled, too. PSA has performed what they call “torture testing” of over 10,000 rounds with these guns.

The barrel is made of 4150 steel and is nitride-coated. The 1:9.5 twist is in keeping with AK-47s. The receiver and under-folder arm are stamped steel.

The wooden furniture here is listed as redwood. I don’t believe that means it is redwood, but that it is finished to look like redwood. It has a very clean look and none of the forced relic dents that some force onto the wood in an attempt to make new guns look old.

As the length of pull on these is not adjustable and they are very compact, having the standard AK sight set up (with the rear sight placed midway down the gun) is advantageous.

If you haven’t shot a skeletal stock, it may take a minute to get accustomed to the lack of cheek weld. There’s no place to stabilize your face. As such, the gun lends itself to short-range work especially well.

It is a 7.62x39mm, so there’s not a tremendous kick. I’ve heard people complain about getting beaten up by AK stocks, but I haven’t had that experience. Either way, this leaves your face free and clear, so there’s nothing to worry about.

Even with the irons and the lack of a cheek rest, I can still make offhand shots on target at 100 yards. I often put clays on the berm and walk in the sights so I can see shot placement (without a scope). The PSA shoots accurately enough that I can crack clays consistently from that distance.

I shot the under folder with a wide variety of mixed ammo. Tula and Wolf both ran well. I shot for accuracy with some Hornady American Gunner but didn’t see results that were vastly superior to the others. They’re moderately more expensive but far more consistent, and the brass is reloadable.

I’ve yet to own an AK (or an AR, now that I think about it) that I didn’t almost immediately begin messing with. And the PSA has one hiccup that I’d like to fix. I’m a trigger snob, even with AKs.

The trigger on this requires some patience. There’s a gradual stack that pushes through, often unexpectedly. If you yank the trigger back hard, you may not notice the discrepancy. If you shoot for accuracy, you’ll need to practice and use a delicate touch to find that breaking point with any consistency.

I have yet to break it down and clean it. When I do, I’ll check the surfaces and make sure there’s nothing wrong. The pull itself feels light for an AK and measures just over five pounds.

The safety works like a champ. The mag release springs are solid. The sights are functional and offer room for adjustment. Everything else has exceeded my expectations. With a bit of work on the trigger, this will be a rock-solid AK.

Now that the imports have slowed to a crawl, and the fear of pending legislation has folks scared (and therefore holding onto guns that would have otherwise made it onto the secondary market), AK prices are up. PSA’s operating model, though, allows them to keep these priced well below what I’d expect.

This model sells for under $800. If you’re looking for your first AK, this is an exceptional option, as PSA makes many models and configurations, all based on the same fundamentals. There may be easier guns to start with, but if your final vision has an under-folding stock, this is it.

At this price, you can add the extras. For me, the first add-on will be five Bulgarian 30-round Steel-Lined Polymer Mags in brown, which should perfectly complement the redwood look. Otherwise, I’d leave it alone and invest in ammo—lots and lots of ammo.

Ever wonder what it’s like to be one the fittest people in the entire world? Maybe, but have you ever considered what it takes to reach that level, and then transition that status into new endeavors? Well, our own Jeremy Stone visited world-class CrossFitter and Tactical Games National Champion, Jacob Heppner, to find out.

Jeremy got a taste of working out with Jacob, which you can hear about by listening to the podcast. He then sat down, after recovering, and talked in depth about CrossFit, the Tactical Games, and general competitiveness. It’s a great interview with a unique guy. We’ll hit the highlights here, but you’ll need to listen to get the details. That’s just how this works, you know.

Jacob played college football at an unnamed NAIA school, though he says he wasn’t very good. We’ll take that on faith. He says he was the team math whiz charged with keeping the other guys eligible. The math talent scored him an internship in systems analysis at Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas, where an Army major invited him to try CrossFit. Looking for a way to stay fit after football, Jacob agreed, even though he didn’t know anything about CrossFit.

Jacob showed up and, not being familiar with many of the exercise skills, didn’t think he performed well. But the CrossFit people saw something and encouraged him to come back for more training and to compete. So, Jacob looked into the CrossFit Games, realized it was a sport, and thought it might give a competitive guy something to do after football.

We’ll let you listen to Jacob’s CrossFit journey in his own words, but let’s just say he did very well. In only a few short years, he went from enthusiastic new guy to being declared the sixth fittest man on the planet at the 2019 World CrossFit Games. Looking at Jacob’s Instagram page, we’d love to see how the top five do it because, dang. Jacob is a serious dude when it comes to working out, as Jeremy learned firsthand.

Jeremy says he was a little worried about working out with Jacob, but he found that Jacob is a good coach, “able to challenge somebody without really shoving their face the dirt. Because anybody can get absolutely destroyed, but you’re not gonna learn anything.” Jacob agreed, saying, “That’s kinda like the motto of CrossFit. Everything is kind of scalable.” Different people have different paces, “but at the end of the day, did we get the stimulus we wanted?”

To that end, Jacob started Grit Performance, an online capacity-based, non-skill program. It features exercises that everyone can do at their level. “We’re gonna sweat,” Jacob says. “We’re gonna hate ourselves for 20 minutes and by the end of it, we’re gonna be like, ‘Man, that was terrible, but it was really fun.'”

By 2020, CrossFit had become a full-time job, with sponsors, including Nike, to satisfy. The passion was ebbing, and Jacob started looking for something else. He didn’t know it yet, but he had already laid the groundwork for that change.

Jacob began combining workouts and shooting in 2018. It wasn’t a big deal. Just something new to try. But his Instagram posts drew suggestions to check out the Tactical Games. He looked at it, but CrossFit was still his thing and he filed it away. But looking for something else two years later, Jacob decided to try one event at the April 2021 Tactical Games. He began training, describing himself as “the most dangerous novice on the planet,” at the time.

Jacob says the shooting is the same throughout the Tactical Games divisions. The differences come in the fitness challenges. Being a world-class CrossFit guy, Jacob entered the Elite Division. He did well, placing fourth behind three top Tactical Games guys. But he didn’t just breeze through the competition. His CrossFit chops meant he excelled at the fitness parts, but his weapons skills were not where they needed to be.

Jacob showed up with his rifle scope not zeroed and the scope mounted backward. But the Tactical Games guys squared him away and encouraged him to compete. He said that attitude helped him “fall in love with the sport.” Like CrossFit, Tactical Games competitors want everyone’s best shot. They want to win, but they want it to be against the best everyone can bring, and they want everyone to have fun. Jeremy says that matches his experience in Precision Rifle Shooting.

Jacob explains the different Tactical Games divisions and the rationale for the Tactical Division, which is very interesting and makes a ton of sense. You should listen to that. Jacob and Jeremy then discuss proper Tactical Games weapons, gear, and setups. Jacob stresses that new participants don’t need “Gucci gear,” which is a trap many fall into.

“Show up with what you have,” he says. The point is to get good with your everyday stuff, then you’ll learn what you need, and what you don’t, as you progress. Basic stuff includes a pistol with at least 10-to-12 rounds capacity, holster system, an LPVO-equipped rifle, a good sling, and a basic plate carrier. Jacob and Jeremy go into more details, but that’s the basic stuff. Jacob does say to make your gear, including your rifle, as slick as possible, because weight during the fitness phases is a big deal.

Showing up and competing is how you learn. One big thing will be talking to experienced people, seeing what they use, and learning why they like certain things as opposed to others. Jeremy points out that waiting until you think you have the perfect setup, or your skills are good enough, is a great excuse to never do anything at all.

Jacob talks about how CrossFit and Tactical games are similar in that the athletes are not hyper-focused on one event. Rather, they must be good at many things. He likens them to the Olympic decathlete. The decathlete might not be gold or silver medal material in any single event, but they are good enough across a range of events that the complete product is very good indeed. They may not be finely tuned athletes (or maybe they are), but they are certainly very well-rounded athletes. And Tactical Games events translate to the real world.

Jeremy asked Jacob how he addressed building his shooting skills for the Tactical Games. Jacob replied that he approached it the same as he did with CrossFit, which requires a wide skill set. He found experts who taught various shooting skills, whether it be long-range rifles, defensive pistols, or other specialties. He took the courses and learned the fundamentals.

He now practices those fundamentals and adds to them by increasing speed, adding stress, or whatever, just as any serious firearm student does. Jeremy notes that advanced shooting is really just fundamental shooting done faster. Jacob says he breaks down complex movements into their “atomic elements.” He practices those, progressing until he can put them all together.

In all, Jeremy’s 45-minute or so talk with Jacob was very interesting. I’ll admit to purposely staying away from CrossFit, though I’ve often thought the Tactical Games look cool. But the stuff they talk about can be applied to any skill you might want to develop. Jacob obviously understands not only how to develop himself, but how to coach others. I coached high school football for 18 years. I recognized some solid principles in how Jacob approaches his craft. Give the podcast a listen. I bet you’ll come away with something positive, even if you don’t aim to be the next Tacticool Iron Man.

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/Jacob_Heppner_Podcast_Audio_Only.mp3

“Hey, it’s Jeremy from Gun Mag Warehouse.” That’s how we’re used to hearing the Mag Life Podcast open, and this episode is no different. But this time, we’re treated to different impressions of Jeremy, thanks to Micah and Charlie from the Garand Thumb YouTube channel. That’s merely the opening to a podcast driven by the guests’ unique brand of humor and more than a few interesting insights. As always, we recommend you listen to the entire episode, but here’s a quick rundown to whet your appetite.

Host: Jeremy Stone

Guest: Micah and Charlie

Accompanying Article: William Lawson

The podcast airs from an “undisclosed location” in the Pacific Northwest, probably meaning Washington State and likely near some Sasquatch village. Jeremy kicks off the episode by noting that his guests took the already very successful Garand Thumb channel to new heights with their humor and cinematography, “the likes of which the YouTube world had never seen. And now it’s created a new era of quality meets entertainment, meets information.”

It’s difficult to argue with Jeremy’s assessment. After all, 3.23 million subscribers, as of this writing, can’t be wrong. Micah seems to agree, though he throws the credit back to the OG Garand Thumb personality himself: “It wouldn’t be a thing without Mike,” who already had something really good going. “He’s intelligent, thorough, and has all the skill sets that people want.”

But Mike, himself, agrees that everyone’s unique personality contributes to the Garand Thumb crew pretty much having everything down. The goal now is to keep it going. Micah says that breaking up the current Garand Thumb crew would be like breaking up the Beatles.

If Mike already had the knowledge and skill sets, Micah adds the top-notch videography and says he is obsessed with improving the channel’s overall quality. Charlie brings the humor, which Micah says Mike couldn’t do on his own, given Charlie’s spontaneity. “That is the Beatles,” he adds.

Micah’s videography improvements were a no-brainer. Charlie notes that Micah’s editing takes a good video and makes it “a banger.” But Micah also regularly engages what may be the most active comment section on YouTube.

Mike always acknowledges that “the comment section is out of control.” It’s part of Garand Thumb lore. Jeremy asks if the comments drive community engagement with the channel. “Yeah, probably,“ Micah responds. “I feel like if you don’t feel like you’re a part of it, and you can’t relate to it, why are you here?”

But, as we all know, comments are not always positive. Jeremy asks Micah if spending time in the comments helps with shrugging off those negative opinions. Micah offers an insightful answer, acknowledging that “Not everyone’s gonna like your stuff. You can’t be perfect. You can’t please everybody. It’s literally not possible.” But even a few criticisms resonate more than the many, many positive or neutral comments. You remember the negative more than the positive, especially the negative points that make sense. But that’s how you improve things.

Anyone who watches Garand Thumb knows Mike can be very funny, but Charlie takes it to a new level. “My jokes and my dark humor, especially, it’s a constant,” Charlie says, “but I know time and place.” But he had to get a feel for time and place when he first joined the crew. He admits that his first appearance was a bit awkward as he worked through it. Micah says he had to assure Mike afterward that Charlie really was funny. Despite a somewhat rocky start, Mike warmed up to Charlie’s humor, and viewers were soon asking for more.

Jeremy notes that “You need some of that chaos mixed in” to balance out Mike’s calm knowledge. Micah agrees, saying they could try to script some comic relief, but he doesn’t think it would work. Charlie’s timing is as important as what he says. “I don’t think you can script what Charlie does,” says Jeremy, “you can’t bottle it.”

Charlie’s hilarity apparently doesn’t stop when the camera turns off. Micah says his compatriot’s superpower is internet trolling. I won’t spoil the stories, but they involve feet pics and fake social media accounts, among other things. Charlie especially enjoys trolling fake PVC patch salesmen.

Micah refuses to reveal his “Icelandic superpower,” though he has apparently mastered abruptly hanging up the phone. Do with that what you will.

Jeremy asks an interesting and important question, given the number of new gun owners who continue to enter the sport and the hobby. He asks his guests where, if he were to start a gun collection from scratch, he should begin. And if he wanted to build a first rifle, should he build it for a specific purpose, or would a general build be better?

Both guests agree that a pistol is a better first purchase than a rifle. A few basic accessories should be included, such as a light and perhaps a red dot. They recommend a duty-sized pistol such as a Glock 17.

The rifle discussion is a bit more ambiguous, as you might expect. After all, the AR-15 platform is so flexible that almost anything goes. All agree that knowing the rifle’s purpose is important if for no other reason than avoiding buying stuff you don’t need.

That discussion really can’t be reproduced in this commentary, but it’s very much worth a listen. It goes into brands, cost, barrel length, and even shooting range limitations for training. A couple of philosophies come to light, demonstrating once again that there is no “one size fits all” answer to gun ownership.

Jeremy offers a take on how shooters train in various states. He thinks that shooters in more restrictive states, like Washington or California, take their training, by and large, more seriously than people in freer states like Texas. That sparks a great discussion about gun laws, training perceptions, and the role of public land. I found that to be one of the podcast’s highlights.

True to form, however, some lighter topics come up which are no less interesting, including theoretical encounters with “mountain men” in the woods, which eventually devolve into shades of “Deliverance.” You Millennials and Gen Z types can look that one up, but don’t say I didn’t warn you.

We also learn that Jeremy is into Classical Greek philosophy, though there’s some doubt as to whether he’s an “Aristotle guy.”

Finally, Jeremy asks if there are any secret “ulterior motives” to Garand Thumb content. Charlie clarifies that as “underlying goals.” Micah replies that, “We just want people to be exposed to the joys of firearms and firearms ownership. We want people to see them being handled in a way that is both professional and fun. I just want there to be as much content, accessible to people, that it becomes normal.” Essentially, with so many people searching for firearms-related content, Garand Thumb strives to provide them with the best quality possible in a welcoming and entertaining way.

There are two basic narratives. One states that gun rights and gun usage are beneficial to a free society. The other is about control. Garand Thumb seeks to counter one narrative with the other by making it appealing, especially to younger generations. Garand Thumb content is purposely not heavy, and they strive to make it fun.

This is one of the Mag Life’s best podcasts yet, even if it is a bit chaotic. Or probably because it’s a bit chaotic. It is Garand Thumb, after all, and you know it’s out of control. Do yourself a favor and check it out.

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/micahpodcast_audio_only.mp3

https://youtu.be/afUAFTEzGEA

It’s podcast time again, and this month Gun Mag Warehouse’s Jeremy Stone sits down with 2-time National Three-Gun Champion Jack Copeland. The podcasts are always fun and informative, and this one is no different. Jeremy and Jack talk about much more than Three-Gun in their hour together. Here’s a brief rundown of their conversation to prime you for the podcast itself. But make certain you give it a listen. These are just the high points.

Jack shot his first competitive match at age 14, which, not-so-coincidentally, was the same age he started training with 5-time Olympic Gold Medalist shooter John McNally. Jack has always loved guns and shooting. He had just bought a Glock 17 at a gun show and stopped by McNally’s booth to look at the latter’s upgraded Glock trigger. It came out that McNally offered training and Jack’s Dad made it happen. So, they shot 1,000 rounds every weekend for a year.  Awesome parenting, right there, Mr. Copeland.

Jack has competed in many categories, and even joined the US Modified Team at the 2018 Shotgun World Championships in Paris. That’s Paris, France, not Paris, Texas, in case you’re wondering, though the Lone Star version is a nice little town. Jack performed very well, placing 80th in a field of 700, despite getting a “zero” on one stage thanks to an ill-timed squib load. Jack also shot with the Russians and Ukrainians in Paris, and he has some interesting comments on that.

Jack’s favorite category, though, is Three-Gun. He says it’s more exciting. “I want to run through a course of fire and have my rifle slung behind me, and my pistol, and carrying my shotgun.” Jeremy, as a newer competitor, acknowledged Jack’s preference, but also notes how he likes the simplicity and structured setup of Steel Challenge matches.

Jack allows that shooting Three-Gun can be scary at first, but he emphasizes how nice the entire community is, especially compared to what he calls “purist” competition circuits. Not that those circles are complete snobs, but the vibe is different. Jack relates how another competitor once loaned him an $8,000 pistol to shoot a stage when his Glock wouldn’t cycle his reloaded ammo.

Jeremy agreed that competitive shooters are very welcoming, citing his first Precision Rifle match, where he says most everyone was excited by his interest in their sport. Similar to Jack’s experience, another shooter offered to let Jeremy use his rifle. Great stuff.

Jeremy also talks about the obstacles to entering the sport, saying they are almost always self-inflicted. But that same PRS shooter told him that “There’s always a reason not to start. You can always come up with something that’s gonna stop you. But if you come out here and shoot, people will lend a hand.”

Now that he’s established, Jack says he’s very selective about the matches he shoots. He particularly likes Jerry Miculek’s Three-Gun match. He mentions several reasons why, but a big one is that “It’s a great group of people.”

Jack says he wishes professional shooting paid better (don’t we all). Jeremy notes that most shooters pay for their own gear and equipment, though some stuff is discounted. “They’re not just handing out rifles to guys who want to shoot,” he says. “Ask me how I know.”

This part of the podcast kicks off when Jeremy says the time and expense of training also keeps people from entering competitive shooting. “But starting and moving somewhere is better than doing nothing.” Jack agrees, saying he believes in training, even if it’s just a small local course. Do what you can and build from there.

Jack talks about how he’s worked for several companies, but he always teaches fundamental shooting skills. If you find a course teaching good fundamentals, it’s worth your while. Higher level course, Jeremy notes, are mostly fundamentals, but “fundamentals fast.” Jack agrees, but he adds a caveat. High level courses do teach fundamentals, but those instructors have shot so much that they have “learned the little tips and tricks that speed you up and…the secrets and…the ways to do it. That’s what you pay for.”

Jack also says that he doesn’t try to teach tactical courses. He leaves that to guys who have done it for real. He takes those classes himself. J & J then have a good discussion about equipment and how people often buy things they don’t need, mainly because they don’t know any better.

Jack calls this trend the “poor man’s tax,” which can be avoided by investing in quality training early on. Jeremy shares how he was advised not to buy anything before taking a class. The class would show him what he needed and how certain things worked, or didn’t work, for other students. Jeremy attributes much of people wasting their money on the fact that the average AR-15 owner only shoots about 100 rounds per year. They just don’t shoot enough to learn any better.

They also discuss the difficulties of being a left-handed shooter, which Jeremy is. He has left-handed firearms but he purposely trains with right-handed weapons so he can, theoretically, pick up any gun and be at least somewhat proficient. Probably a good idea.

Jack talks about how machine guns are “a horrible drug. Very addicting.” He quickly moved from an M-4 to an MP5 to an MCX to a belt-fed. Now he wants a belt-fed .50 cal Ma Deuce. Sounds like fun to me! But thanks to current gun laws, private individuals pretty much have to be affiliated with a corporation to gain access to such firearms.

This leads to a discussion of how ill-conceived the NFA is, especially regarding suppressors and short-barreled rifles. Hollywood is rightly blamed for framing suppressors as whisper quiet assassins’ tools. Plus, is anyone really trying to conceal a 10-inch AR?

Jack points out that the ATF’s new pistol brace rule is tough on competitors. He relies on short 9mm AR pistols for his living. Is he supposed to Form 1 all of them as SBRs and hope it doesn’t take too long?

Jeremy rightly notes that their discussion was all over the place, but that’s what made it interesting. It was a free flow conversation instead of a structured interview. Here are some highlights of what else was discussed:

I always enjoy these podcasts because of the free-flow form. This one engaged me from beginning to end. Just two friends talking about shooting guns. Shooting at a high level, mind you, but still just shooting guns. I liked that it was kind of all over the place. That’s when little nuggets come through, where they might not in a structured interview. Do yourself a favor and give it a listen.

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/joackcopelandpodcastaudio.mp3

https://www.instagram.com/jack_3gun/

GunMag Warehouse’s Jeremy Stone is back with an interesting new podcast after a short hiatus. This month, Jeremy takes on long range precision shooting with Adrian from Sidewinder Concepts. Adrian is a former US Army sniper who wrapped up his service in June of 2022.

Sidewinder Concepts is based near Houston, Texas and the fledgling company is already making waves, even though it’s been mostly word-of-mouth so far. Jeremy heard about Adrian and Sidewinder through Milspec Mojo, who appeared on the podcast last December. Mojo was a recently qualified police sniper, and guess who trained him? That’s right. So, Jeremy decided he needed to talk to Adrian himself.

Jeremy spent a day training with Adrian and, though he admits he’s “not a sniper” after that day, he did see good results. Adrian promised Jeremy that he would hit a 1,000-yard target in the first box of ammo. He was as good as his word, as Jeremy rang the steel on the 12th round. “I hit that steel at 1,000 yards, so I felt pretty good the rest of the day,” he noted. “I was like, okay, dial it back to 500…easy.”

Adrian says instilling that early confidence is part of the program. “That’s kind of the whole point about why I have guys do that. It’s to build that confidence and show that the equipment works…and essentially get those nerves out, like right out the gate. So, it’s like, ‘I hit the furthest target…then everything else should, in theory, be easy.’”

Jeremy notes that, even at 1,000 yards, the 6.5 Creedmoor bullet he was shooting was still 200 or so yards from the transonic range. In case you aren’t familiar with the term, transonic refers to the point where a bullet decelerates back through the sound barrier. This deceleration can cause destabilization beginning at about Mach 1.2. But, then again, the bullet might continue on to its target. There are many variables, but the transonic phenomenon is a real thing that can disrupt longer shots.

Adrian notes that, within the bullet’s supersonic range, that is before it decelerates, the main adjustment is for wind, once you have the drop numbers figured. In Jeremy’s case, the wind calls involved some guesswork based on the flags near the target, though Adrian expands on that and says he took “more of an educated guess, or a SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess), based on the flag, surrounding vegetation, and the mirage to send the first round. After that, all they had to do was identify the miss, make the correction with the reticle, and re-engage.

Jeremy says he was worried about giving Adrian bad data, since accurate adjustments depend on it. But Sidewinder also uses a trigger cam that allows its instructors to see exactly what the shooter is doing, all but ensuring accurate feedback.

Adrian says the camera is especially useful when training new shooters who may not know what feedback to give. He says the camera also serves as an “integrity check” for students and for the instructors as they demonstrate teaching points. Finally, the camera tells the instructor whether the students understand their reticles and are using them properly.

Jeremy says that he “was pretty intimidated by the whole process, and most of that came from my own perception.” He was nervous because he thought he needed a $4,000 to $5,000 dollar rig to shoot long distance successfully. But he only had about $1,500 in his rifle, scope, and everything else. Even at $1,500, it’s technically a “budget rig,” even though that’s big money to many folks.

But Jeremy learned that his “budget rig” worked just fine and he didn’t have to break his bank account to go shoot. “No,” Adrian agreed. “There are solid factory options out there. More expensive platforms will increase consistency, but ‘quality budget’ products can get you to those distances fairly easily with the right know-how.”

Students often ask Adrian how to build out a precision rifle. His response is always “What do you want to use it for?” He notes that “shooting long range” isn’t an adequate answer because it lacks context. There must be a deeper purpose, whether it be hunting, target shooting, or precision rifle competition shooting. “I want to help you to meet your needs,” he says.

Many folks don’t focus on those needs when setting up a rifle, though he thinks people are getting better about it. But so much information is available, with so many varying opinions, that sifting through it all can be difficult. For that, Adrian recommends attending a long range shooting class. “You’ll learn really quick from either watching other students use their equipment or what the instructor is using. Good classes will talk about that stuff.”

Jeremy shares that his first class with former Gun Mag Warehouse Marketing Director Daniel Shaw was like that. Asking what he should buy for the class, Shaw told him not to buy anything extra and to run magazines out of his pockets if need be. He would se what other people run and save himself some money. This is an important lesson, Jeremy says, because many people won’t take a class at all because they think they don’t have the right gear.

Many folks won’t take classes because they think they aren’t good enough. It is true that certain classes require a certain skill level, but those classes also state the prerequisites. Jeremy has learned that the purpose of basic skills classes is to teach those skills the right way. Going in cold means you don’t have to unlearn anything.

Most of Jeremy’s fears about taking classes have been unfounded. Everyone has always been friendly and helpful. “That, to me,” he says, “is the actual gun community. The internet side of things is not the same as what people are like in real life.” Adrian chimes in that one of his best classes to date was an all-female group because they were “pumping each other up,” unlike what most male students do.

Jeremy says he thinks he’s a pain to instructors because he always wants to know why he’s doing something. “If I can understand why I’m doing it,” he says, “then it will stick better.” Adrian agreed, saying that there’s “nothing wrong with being a ‘why guy.’ I had a lot of difficulties in the military from being a ‘why guy.’”

Adrian goes on to encourage students to ask why and to challenge theory in a positive manner. Ask the questions and let the instructor explain it.  He says to just understand that how those questions are posed is “super important.” In other words, don’t be an arrogant jerk. As my Dad always told me, “It’s not what you say, but how you say it.” Adrian encourages students to train with different instructors and reach their own conclusions about what works best for them.

Adrian and Jeremy talk about some other interesting stuff that you’ll have to listen to the podcast to get. One of them is the reason for the thickness of the front sight post. If you haven’t heard, it has to do with range finding with the M16 rifle, which Adrian explains. Good stuff. They also discuss the growth of women’s participation in the shooting sports, and precision rifle competition in particular.  Finally, Jeremy asks Adrian about the reason snipers need government security clearance. You may know that, and you may not. Either way, it’s a fun discussion.

Check out the audio podcast. It’s an interesting back and forth. Adrian seems like a good dude and his course sounds like lots of fun. Most of Sidewinder’s training is done in the Houston area, but Adrian and crew will travel to train you. They are currently doing that for folks in Texas, Arizona, Oregon, and Washington State.

You can find Sidewinder Concepts at sidewinderconcepts.com and @Sidewinder_Concepts on Instagram.

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/Sidewinder_Podcast-Audio.mp3

GunMag Warehouse’s Jeremy Stone is back with another entertaining and information-packed Mag Life Podcast. This month, Jeremy sits down with YouTube gun guy and real-life cop, Milspec Mojo. Mojo is widely known as one of the top firearms guys on the internet, especially when it comes to fundamentals. Those fundamentals translate into lightning operations skills, meaning that he’s a good resource to watch if you want to improve your shooting and gun handling.

Mojo started off on Instagram, where he is still very active, but his YouTube channel took off when he started working with YouTube icon, Garand Thumb. As he got further into the training aspect of firearms, Mojo found that he has a knack for teaching. He loves training other people and has developed a style in which he and his friends actually train one another, even if he is the impetus behind it all.

Jeremy agrees, talking about how much fun he had at his earlier session with Mojo and his team. Mojo says it’s important to train with likeminded people who want to get better. Surround yourself with folks like that and you’ll get better. That leads to the experience of everyone training everyone. Jeremy agrees that most people want that kind of situation.

Jeremy observes that not all cops train regularly. Mojo says that it is a problem in the law enforcement community, but he qualifies that by saying he’s not married and doesn’t have kids. If that happens down the road, his priorities may shift.

Mojo also says that, while shooting is an important skill for law enforcement officers, other skills are also very important and maybe even more so. He talks about social skills like talking to people and making your point without sounding like a jerk. De-escalation and talking your way out of a gun fight. Defensive tactics and being physically fit are also big. All those together are probably more important for a cop than pulling a trigger, but he also says that pulling the trigger is a skill that cannot be allowed to lapse.

Much of the less-than-ideal training can be attributed to budgetary factors made worse by the ill-conceived “defund the police” movement. Agencies simply don’t possess the ammo budget to have cops train properly. If they want extra training, they have to pay for it themselves. Jeremy notes that many departments require cops to provide their own patrol rifle if they want to roll with one. Mojo says he is very fortunate that his agency provides them with some great weapons.

Jeremy returns to his range session and says he enjoyed it because he felt like he learned something and got better. He asks Mojo what he thinks is the best way to know what you’re not good at. He then answers his own question by saying it’s shooting with other people. Mojo agrees and says that shooting on camera helps too.

Those things force you to home in on individual skills to learn where you’re lacking. Mojo says you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, meaning you have to accept that you need improvement and be able to accept and learn from constructive criticism. You have to lose your ego to get better. He has hundreds of video hours that he watches, trying to see what he can do better.

Jeremy asks Mojo about shooting competitively, to which Mojo replies that he hasn’t done it seriously. He did shoot a couple of matches, in which he did very well using a stock rifle and a Beretta M9A1 against guys with custom rigs.

Mojo says that he probably should compete, despite some law enforcement criticisms that competition is “gaming” and doesn’t translate to the real world. Mojo says he used to buy into that but has changed his mind. He says he constantly games scenarios at work, whether it’s pre-staging a vehicle or a weapon if he thinks something is about to go down.

Jeremy notes that certain skills from competition, like a fast draw, absolutely translate well, though some competition habits, like always pointing the muzzle downrange, can hinder real-life performance. Mojo says that, so far, he hasn’t been interested in competing because he has more fun training with his friends. “As long as you’re having fun, “he says, “that’s all that matters. If you have fun, you’re gonna learn.”

Jeremy compares competition shooting to Airsoft. Some things translate and some things don’t. He then says that Airsoft is “fun on a grand scale.” Mojo concurs. He and his friends play Airsoft, not only because it’s fun, but it also contributes to physical fitness and team building. They learn tactical team communication from Airsoft. The Airsoft environment provides the context within which skills can be practiced and applied.

It’s also a great way to test gear, whether it be optics, lights, or any other gear you might run. Mojo says that he and his boys run their actual cop gear when they do the Airsoft thing, including armor. He learned that he doesn’t like magazines on his chest rig’s front because it hinders him when he goes prone. He does note that Airsoft stuff ain’t cheap. It’s come a long way from its beginnings.

Mojo recently qualified as a police sniper. He uses a built-out Remington 700 with a chassis setup. He talks about what he learned in the sniper course in a good discussion of the training and its continuing benefits.

He puts a lot of effort into being able to run whatever gun he has at a high level, including his bolt gun. He doesn’t want to be the guy who has been to all the schools or been in combat but can’t actually run a gun. You can have training and experience, but you still have to put in the work to benefit from it. A good discussion of shooting fundamentals follows, including fast bolt gun operations. Mojo surprisingly says that the bolt gun might be his favorite weapon.

He also says that, even if you have a long-range weapon like his sniper rifle, don’t scoff at practicing at closer distances. Mastering the fundamentals at 100 yards or 7 yards with a pistol allows you to build on that as ranges increase.

Mojo says his nickname comes from two places. First, the “Milspec” part comes from wanting to run standard equipment as well as, or better than, other people who run custom weapons and accessories. Hence the good performance with the Beretta and the basic rifle. He has nothing against upgrades, and has a couple himself, but he wants to be able to run whatever he has at a high level without depending on them.

He picked up the nickname “Mojo” in the Marine Corps and he relates that story. Turns out the combination works, even if it took a few name changes to get the handle right. This is a very informative and entertaining podcast. Do yourself a favor and listen to the whole thing. You’ll probably learn something.

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/mojo_audio.mp3

GunMag Warehouse’s Jeremy Stone is back with another interesting and insightful podcast. This month, Jeremy sits down with USPSA Grandmaster Hunter Constantine right before shooting his own very first match. They discuss Hunter’s meteoric rise in the sport and what it takes to develop and maintain good shooting skills.

Jeremy starts by saying that his podcast guests are “people that I dig. People that I see on social media doing cool [stuff] and that I can learn from…I’m on a journey of getting better at shooting guns.” Hunter stood out to him because he does some funny stuff but he’s also a very high-level competitor.

Hunter recounts how he never fired a gun until he was 18. His uncle took him to the range and handed him a 1911 with factory 230-grain ball ammo. He laughingly says it was “as much recoil as I could probably ask for.” “After that weekend,” he adds, “I just fell in love with it.”

Hunter bought his first firearms shortly thereafter and began shooting recreationally. After moving to Tucson, Arizona, he looked into competition shooting. He had been a high-level bicycle rider but knew he could only focus on one thing if he wanted to perform well. He chose shooting because he thought it was “badass and cool.” No argument here.

So, at age 24, Hunter Googled “how to shoot competition.” The results returned a local pistol club, so he called the match director, who told him “To just show up.” The first few months, Hunter was dead last in the local standings. But he was enjoying himself and stayed with it.

Hunter says he especially enjoys the social aspect of competitive shooting. Most of his friends are in the firearms community. Jeremy echoes that sentiment. He says the online gun community is “vastly different” from in-person interactions. He notes that there is a world of difference between “the comment section” and how humble and inclusive gun people are in real life.

“They want you to come out and shoot,” Jeremy says, “they want to grow the sport, they want to get more people involved.” Hunter agrees, saying that was his exact experience. He didn’t know the rules or the gear, but people were glad he was there. They gave him tips on gear and even loaned him items to try out for himself. He used that experience to develop his own setup and he now rocks his EDC rig during matches. He says competitive shooting is “open arms for everybody involved.”

“I encourage people to go to the match and shoot with whatever gear you have. You don’t have to spend thousands of dollars on a new gun and a new belt. Just go shoot with what you have. People will welcome you.” He says that maybe you shouldn’t go shoot at the nationals with the wrong gear, but local matches will teach you what you need and what you don’t.

Hunter then details how he did not do that and how those lessons were learned. He started with a straight-up Gucci setup and that was a mistake. He now shoots a Smith & Wesson and loves it. Hunter then discusses his daily training routine and shooting schedule. Jeremy says early on that Hunter’s cold start drills are what drew his attention.

Hunter decided to pursue USPSA as his discipline, but right as he made that decision, the USPSA directors at his club stepped down. No one else was interested, so Hunter volunteered. He became the match director before he even had his USPSA membership.

He learned on the job by putting on matches for world-class shooters. No pressure there. That was his “Baptism by fire,” so to speak. It obviously worked out well. Hunter kept up his training, too. “There’s no parties, no chasing girls,” he says. It took disciplined and diligent work.

When he picked up his first sponsor, Hunter gave his commercial real estate company 2 months’ notice. He used his severance pay to buy gear and 28,000 rounds of ammo. He thought it would last a year. Those 28,000 rounds were gone in 3 months. But those 3 months also saw him rise from a high B-class shooter to Grand Master status.

Jeremy notes that the foundations for that improvement aren’t seen on social media. “It’s not real sexy to show work happening, and the sacrifice as well.” Hunter agrees. Hobbies and other activities just fell away while he pursued that goal.

Hunter says that shooting major competitions is most beneficial to him now. Being around a nationwide talent pool makes him better. He sees how they shoot, giving him the opportunity to emulate their techniques and habits. He also says that seeing them in person is much better than watching them on video or social media. Watching in real-time is better suited to detailed analysis of what they are doing.

Plus, actually competing against those shooters is more beneficial than just practicing. The competition drives you to be better and brings out any weaknesses in your technique and mindset. Jeremy adds that, as he gets into competitive shooting, he wants to make sure his range time is building toward something. Hunter concurs, saying that “there’s a difference between shooting and practicing.”

Hunter has reached the point where he is working on his brain’s processing power. He can analyze his technique as he performs full-speed drills. That translates to competition, making him better. Being able to mentally break down techniques in real-time slows everything down in his mind, almost like slow motion.

Hunter focuses on technique over raw speed. Good technique allows him to be faster, but he tries to balance speed and accuracy. He makes it about repeatable performance, which improves over time, leading to long-term success. Consistency is key. It’s much better than high and low spikes. Knowing you can reproduce a given performance level at any time is a powerful tool.

Shooting is and can be a lifelong sport. But only if it’s fun. “If you’re not having fun, Hunter says, “it’s not for you.” He admits that some shooters approach it differently, but even during matches, he tries to have fun, whether it’s joking around with the range officers, or whatever. The relaxed, fun mindset helps him shoot better and certainly makes shooting professionally sustainable.

Hunter carries that mindset into training as well. The classes he teaches are relaxed, which he believes helps his students. He says he’s never cared for the “drill instructor” style of training that is so prevalent right now. He believes students get more from a class “where it feels like we’re all just hanging out.” Jeremy says he thinks there’s a place for both, depending on each person, to which Hunter agrees.

A good discussion about a winning mindset and mental preparation follows. I won’t try to recapture that here because you’ll want to hear it for yourself, just like the rest of the stuff I left out.

Hunter and Jeremy talk about how beginners may be reluctant to get involved because they don’t want to be at the bottom of the standings at first. Hunter understands because he’s been there. But sticking it out and putting the work in pays off in shooting, just as it does everywhere else. Hunter says he feels great satisfaction when he sees former students moving up the standings.

Despite his success, Hunter still sees himself as a student. He’s always learning new things to make him better. One thing he learned was that cycling through different guns and gear doesn’t help. Once you find what works, focus on that. You get good when you settle on one gun.

Hunter estimates he has 150-200,000 rounds through his chosen Smith & Wesson platform. He’s shooting for a million. “That allows me to understand that gun inside and out. I know what recoil feels like when it’s a light round. I know when it’s a bad grip…I can call my shot based on how that gun feels in my hand.” Powerful stuff.

Hunter’s gear experiments led him to develop and market his own gun belt, which he proudly says is all made in the USA, from start to finish. He says, “it’s the most comfortable belt you could possibly wear.” He tells you where you can find one if you’re interested. He also talks about the courses he offers and where you can access that training.

All in all, this is a very interesting and informative podcast. Do yourself a favor and listen to it. You’ll learn something.

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/Hunter_podcast_audio_only.mp3

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/adminpodcast_audio.mp3

This month, Jeremy had Administrative Results on the podcast to talk about kit, history, and how to be a better man.

First off, this is an interesting conversation. Jeremy notes that he reached out to Admin because he not only likes the content, but the channel’s vibe. He thinks that’s missing from a lot of content creators. And he’s not wrong. Admin’s channel is unique, even though it deals with guns and shooting like so many others. There’s a philosophical underpinning that many channels lack. And the production value is first class.

And we’re calling him Admin because he’s superhero-like in that he has a secret identity. Who knows what lurks beneath the balaclava? Only Admin knows.

Admin’s background is in law enforcement, though it might have gone in another direction. He says that he “was always someone that felt called to a service capacity…I knew I had to do it, either military or law enforcement.”

He tried the military first but found more doors being shut on him than were opened. Looking at law enforcement, he found he could make better money while still answering the call. Plus, there was no runaround like the military was giving him.

Admin was a cop for two years until his department made a COVID vaccine mandatory for continued employment. He liked his job but passed on getting jabbed. By that time, however, his YouTube Channel had 30 or 40 thousand subscribers, so he rolled the dice and went full-time.

That was a good decision since he’s now at 263k with a bullet. His quality product has attracted industry influencers and he’s going strong. He now serves through information and philosophical culture content.

Basically, Admin advises diligence in your work and avoiding “time sucks” that “aren’t good for your brain.” Stuff that distracts like social media. He loves video games, but disciplines himself to put them aside when it’s time to work.

He also stresses positive habits—easy but crucial stuff like regular exercise and drinking water. “You have to take care of yourself,” he says. He’s big on saunas too, thanks to a trip to Finland. Admin also says you have to take risks. Calculated risks, certainly, but sitting at home in front of a video game all day and night is not the way. If you want to be something, you gotta risk something.

Finally, hard work. Shooting guns on YouTube for a living sounds awesome. It is awesome. But there’s a lot of work behind the scenes that makes those cool videos possible, whether it’s planning, editing, skills development, or whatever.

Jeremy notes that good habits build momentum, but so do bad habits. If you don’t exercise one day, it’s easier to not do it another day. Admin agrees, saying that a bad day at the gym is still a day at the gym. A substandard video is still a learning experience to help him get better.

Admin and Jeremy both agree that details are important, and Admin says he’s learned a lot about kit and training from the Airsoft community. That pointed him to forums, where he learned even more. It’s all a deep rabbit hole and he admits to still learning. No one knows everything, but you can always learn.

Interestingly, Admin lists former SAS operator Christian Craighead as a big influence. You may remember that Craighead singlehandedly stormed a terrorist-held hotel in Nairobi, Kenya in 2019. He killed two tangos and led the hostages to safety.

Admin says he would like to branch out and start his own company, so he doesn’t have to rely on fickle YouTube policies. He envisions that endeavor as a shooting range, complete with instructors, along with a realistic Airsoft competition complex. The goal is to promote shooting skills and “amplify” firearms culture, much as he does now, just more hands-on.

Jeremy notes that politics is downstream from culture, and that influencers like Admin are doing good work there. Channels like his can counter the media narrative and may lead to positive political results moving forward. Jeremy says a Jerry Miculek video literally changed his life and he thinks guys like Admin are working to make firearms culture American culture. You know, like it used to be before people started listening to alarmists driven by the hysterical mass media.

Jeremy and Admin have an interesting discussion about the power of mass media and how that power is flowing to regular people via the internet. They note how guys like Joe Rogan have a larger audience than much of the corporate media and how that threatens the establishment.

It’s very astute, with Jeremy quoting the author Gustave Le Bon, who wrote that whoever controls the crowd, controls society. “Whoever gives them their illusions is their master. Whoever tries to show them that they believe in illusions will always be their enemy.” An appropriate quote for our times.

Creators like Admin, and podcasts like this one, are helping dispel illusions. That’s why certain bad actors and their corporate cronies do their best to silence them. We need to be tuned in and not let that happen. One way to do that is to listen to the podcast for yourself to catch all the stuff I necessarily left out. And go check out Administrative Results on YouTube. You’ll be glad you did.

https://youtu.be/8YyjLR7JQxw

Website: https://administrativusresults.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/AdministrativeResults

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/administrativeresults/?hl=en

In the previous episode, Daniel visited with Brandon Bridge and Taylor Crabtree about their work with Average Joes Training Group, the value of teamwork, and more. Well, once they were done recording they decided to turn the microphone back on for their candid, stream-of-consciousness conversation. In this episode, the conversation covers everything from the influence of good instructors to training techniques and mentality to the importance of incorporating first aid training into firearms classes.

Host: Daniel Shaw

Guest: Brandon Bridge and Taylor Crabtree

Introduction/Timeline: Stephanie Kimmell

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/s/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/200_Good_People_Make_a_Big_Difference_Ninebanger_Part_Two.mp3

0:39 Jeremy starts out by expressing the benefits he has received by meeting and learning from people in the firearms industry. He’s been able to study some of the most top-of-the-line shooters that ever existed, which, a lot of what we know is based on their work. With more opportunities to “get behind the wheel,” so to speak, he has been able to learn more about actual manipulation and been exposed to different schools of thought.

Brandon points out that social media is the biggest catalyst to the whole industry, whether firearms or training in general. He’s been doing the social media thing since 2012 both in the green and later in the blue uniform—posting gun stuff and following people in the training world. Something he’s noticed is a lot of regurgitation of the big stuff that has no place in the civilian world. But then, there are also those instructors who don’t regurgitate military stuff, but who talks about performance-based learning styles. He tries to mold himself after those people, the ones with a grounded approach to training without bringing their ego and personal history into it.

One of the instructors they talk about is Ben Stoeger. Brandon says his approach to training is grounded, with a performance mindset. It’s about the principles and applying them to the situation.

Scott Jedlinski, otherwise known as “Jedi,” is another instructor that these guys respect. Brandon recently attended Scott’s RDS course. Largely self-taught, Brandon says, “I can make hits and I think of myself as a competent, or “fast”, shooter.” Before attending the class, he had been shooting RDS pistols for years, starting from the first time he threw an RMR on a pistol in 2013 and wanted to throw it away in frustration, to now, when he’s helping spearhead and give insight to his department’s RDS program. As he puts it, “An RDS pistol class is nothing more than a pistol class… Yeah, there are some nuances you talk about in regards to finding the dot and sight acquisition, tracking your dot during recoil, pattern shooting — but it’s no different than a pistol class.”

But something really clicked for him when he attended Jedi’s class. Between the methodology of training mixed with Scott’s eloquent description of all the processes happening while sighting and shooting, “I’m like, Holy sh*t! I’ve been doing this but what he just said makes sense. I’m going to apply it and I’m going to get faster.”

Did he truly get faster? Yes he did. “Because somehow he eloquently explains what you’re already doing and, Boom. Flipped my head upside down.”

Daniel says he likes Scott a lot, and calls him ‘good people.’

5:29 Talking about Scott Jedlinski moves the conversation toward training techniques.

A couple of months ago Daniel put up a video about trigger reset. Scott sent him a message saying, “Holy sh*t, this was spot on!”

Daniel says he stopped teaching the trap technique many years ago. He still explains it, but considering the physics, there is no argument that resetting during recoil is not faster. He can prove it with math, on paper, with the amount of movement that has to happen. Some people still push the trap technique as the technique, but it doesn’t make any sense, and it proves out when you put those people in a combat-focused pistol class. They intuitively reset the trigger in-flight because they’re trying to shoot fast in a combat-oriented environment.

Brandon compares it to training wheels that people don’t want to take off. To brand new shooters, pinning the trigger gets them acclimated with what a gas pedal feels like. Through a controlled methodology between handling and gripping the gun, they’re taught sight acquisition, sight picture, and sight alignment. And with that, they try to be as accurate as possible by decreasing movement within the trigger. “But that in itself is a hindrance to further learning. All they want to do is now pin the trigger.”

Daniel doesn’t even teach beginner shooters sight alignment. “We might go a whole handgun class, 16 hours straight, and I never even talk about sight alignment. It depends on what I see on the target. If I see groups that look like they understand how to align their sights, but these groups are indicative of moving the gun during the trigger process, I’m not going to stop and draw pictures and talk about sight alignment.”

If you think about it, people intuitively align things. In western culture, we align everything from our shoes to how we park our cars next to the other ones in the parking lots. So, if a student in one of Daniel’s classes is doing something weird, he investigates to find out why. “…every once in a while they’ll but the bottom of their front sight in the top of their rear sight. Or they’ll put the top in the bottom of it. Just not quite perfect, but sight alignment is almost never the issue with the shooter.”

Brandon says it’s not sight alignment that’s the issue. It’s not sight picture and how much time they’re spending on the trigger trying to get that perfect shot. Daniel agrees, “They screw up the ‘making it go Bang’ part. You could spend five hours and have the best sight alignment ever — [but] if you move the gun when you press the trigger, you just wasted five hours. So they need to understand trigger press before we can even start caring about sights.”

9:37 Good enough sight picture is where it’s at because it’s all about trigger.

Daniel explains it further. “You can’t hold still. You’re going to have a wobble area. Place the center of your wobble in the center of your aiming area, and make the gun go bang without moving it. There’s nothing more that you can do. It’s all about trigger.”

There are things that help keep the gun from moving, like a good grip, good position, and minimizing the nervous response, but things are often overcomplicated. “I think a lot of instructors want to sound smart – they’ll write an article for a publication and they’ll put 2,000 words down, not trying to transfer knowledge, but trying to show how smart they are.”

Brandon agrees, saying that all instructors need to self-realize. The best thing to teach people how to shoot — is shooting.

11:50 When it comes to moving shooters from one class on fundamental to an applied course, how do instructors deal with shooters that already know too much or are not receptive to learning?

It can be a problem with most human beings, but with some people, you can show them nine times out of ten what they’re doing wrong, but they don’t fix it. Specifically, this is a question about the students who don’t have the right mindset. You can always work through the problems with students who are confused, as there are different ways to teach everything.

Brandon and Daniel both say they don’t have that issue come up very often as it’s more likely to come up in more advanced, niche operator classes. Daniel says that when he does get that, it’s usually because “Chief made me come. I didn’t really want to train.”

Daniel builds his class around what a shooter is most likely to need to know how to do in a fight. So, for example in his carbine class and handgun class, he frontloads the highest priorities toward the beginning, while making sure they’re ready for those priorities. “You have to build them up to that — weapons handling, understand carries, transports, ready positions.” He covers all of that before students really start presenting to the target.

And he also structures the curriculum toward functionality. “Yeah, you may not care about the high ready, but there’s a reason why it’s popular — not because it looks cool. But because it’s functional in a lot of ways. It’s not the answer to every question, but it’s the answer to some.” Some people don’t buy into that, but later with more reality-based flat rang drills, they need more than just low-ready tools or just a high compressed ready with a handgun. When it comes to drills with movement, working in close proximity with a partner, even if they didn’t buy into it early on in the class, he keeps correcting them.

Humility is another important part of the equation. “I tell students at the beginning of class, I’ve been wrong about so many things in my life, I’m probably wrong about something today. Things that I thought for sure that I knew and had it all figured out in the gun world, that later on I found out that I didn’t have anything figured out.” As new information becomes available, he may change how he does things. That’s called growth.

Using a layered approach, Daniel teaches by first explaining what he’s doing, then demonstrating it. After his demonstration, he has his students replicate it and he coaches them as they do it. After he feels like they understand where it fits in reality, how to do it properly, safely, and how to replicate it on their own time, he moves on to the next thing. “None of this stuff goes away, just the next thing gets layered on.” So if a student didn’t buy into a concept at the beginning of the class, they’re probably going to as more things get layered on, “because there’s a damn good reason why it’s in there.” Eventually they pick it up.

Another effective method is to put a really switched-on shooter next to those guys to show them what a high-level shooter looks like. Basically, it’s a peer-pressure kind of thing. “Whenever I demonstrate, I’m going to do what I refer to as ‘Demonstrate Hard.’ I’m going to show them what a high level of proficiency looks like. So, if they’re not looking like me, or they’re not looking like Brandon, they can think whatever they want, or say whatever they want, everybody in the class but them knows that they should probably do this thing.”

18:16 Brandon illustrates that point by telling a story from back when he was just getting started in his department.

After graduating from the academy, his department had a 15-week in-service. Part of the in-service includes a couple of weeks shooting on the range. The rangemaster for the department, at the time, was the stereotypical rangemaster for a PD. You’re probably thinking of a character that’s a little bit angry, a little bit crusty, kinda stuck in some of the older ways, and cusses a whole bunch on the range. That was him.

“Firearms week comes up. It’s me and four other recruits, and I’m the only shooter in the group…. So we’re all at the range, 25 yards out, simple 25-yard, six-lane, indoor range is what we have access to. So we’re shooting and in comes this 6’3” bald, big goatee, skinny guy probably in his early 50s. There are pictures of him on the wall holding an MP5 wearing just a jacket and a ballcap in the 80s doing SWAT for this department.

“The guy is like a legend in the department. He could say the sky is purple, and the sky is purple. He was a shooter. I’m talking twenty yards, stacking bill drills on an index card. The dude is a tac driver — hell of a dude — a tac driver. Old school SWAT. Dude could shoot the wings off a gnat with an MP5. And he’s next to me and I’m like, “who is this dude?”

“He outshot me. I’m sitting there like, “focus, quit dropping shots.” This guy is outshooting me left and right. He’s doing everything a little bit slower. At that time it was, “Mag in. Over the top.” There was no ‘slide, lock, reload.’ He was doing all that and it was super basic stuff. That dude didn’t miss. It was like he only shot that target once, and we just shot like a hundred rounds, at various distances.

So, why did the department have the rangemaster come in? Brandon’s friend in the department reminds him that it was, “To check you. You got through the academy, you took top PT. You took Top Shot at the academy. But you need someone to check you.” What’s the takeaway? “Wherever you are, you need someone to check you. Definitely got checked that day!”

22:33 Keep a balance between humility and arrogance.

Daniel says this is a fine line. Having humility, whether as an instructor or a student, will go a long way. But, to be truly great at something, such as a SWAT officer, a great guitarist, or whatever, there has to be a level of arrogance to push you to the next level.

Brandon makes the point that having the confidence to do the right thing isn’t what everybody else thinks it is. When he made the transition from military to law enforcement, it took him some time to figure out the different roles. His previous experience in the military was far less surgical, compared to what he does in law enforcement. “There was a time when I thought this probably isn’t the place for me because apparently, I’m moving way too fast. Because it is absolutely surgical.”

Daniel continues on that thought, saying that when you get to that level you’ve got a strong baseline of your capabilities with surgical precision. Since you’ve achieved that strong baseline, you can subtract from and trade — precision for speed or speed for precision.

“Maybe you don’t need to shoot the button on a guy’s shirt, maybe you need to get the upper thoracic. So you know what it takes to shoot the button on the shirt which also tells you what it takes to get it somewhere in the chest area. Practicing perfect is something I believe very strongly in. Going out and shooting fast—and hope is part of your shooting process? Hope doesn’t work.”

But if you practice precision and discipline yourself to practice perfection, you’ll get faster at perfection. You’re also going to establish that baseline understanding of what it takes to be perfect. And when you don’t need to be perfect, you know exactly how much speed you can trade.

28:23 Exposure Drill

One of the drills that Brandon did at the first few Average Joe’s range days was what he called an exposure drill. He did it to see where everybody’s mindset was, on training. Several people would stand on a line facing downrange, load, and make ready. He had them turn a 180, then he went downrange about ten yards to put up a realistic photographic target of a classic Hollywood hostage rescue.

“All you have is this low percentage shot at ten yards, plus, the image is reduced on the paper so it’s like a 15-yard hostage shot. You’re talking like a 6×6 maybe 8×8 at most around the head. We just wanted to expose people and see what they did. So without giving them any instructions, without telling them a course of fire, round count, anything, all the instruction they got was, “On the sound of this buzzer, you’re going to turn, scan and assess, engage whatever you see with whatever appropriate amount of firepower you deem necessary to end the threat.”

That’s all they had. For safety reasons I told them not to move, just turn, stay static, and engage. More than half the group missed the shot. The other half of the group that did make the shot, probably fired like four rounds. We had to bring them in and we had this kind of mindset discussion.”

Those who turned and engaged by firing rounds either smoked the hostage or completely missed. So, at that point, they needed to focus on actually training — manipulations on a weapons system and what this actually does.

Those who hit at the target, or even missed, but fired four rounds needed to reevaluate their training mindset. Why? What happens to meat when a bullet hits it? Typically it moves. So when all you need to do is turn and engage, would you fire multiple rounds? Either the last three rounds were sent into dead air or the hostage that was just set free is smoked.

This illustrates a fundamental mindset in for the average shooter — they’re forgetting the real-world application of training.

31:46 Alphabet Soup Drill

Before we talk about this drill, we need to understand one of Daniel’s personal safety rules: be sure of your target and ensure that it’s foreground and background remain clear. “Not just that they’re clear right now, but that they remain clear.” So, if this is a gas station or mall situation, or whatever it is, there are a lot of people out there. Bad guys don’t care about people in the back or foreground, but it is the responsibility of an armed citizen or law enforcement officer to care. Further, it’s not just if the foreground and background are clear right now, but when people are running for exits, dropping to the ground in the absence of cover. When there’s a lot of movement happening, it’s a lot for the bad guy and a lot for you. It’s just something to be constantly thinking about in a populated environment if a firearm must be used.

Daniel goes through protection of third party, teaching the students strategies on how to protect others, like moving in front of them, getting online with someone so they don’t cross the line of fire — simple close protection techniques.

For the Alphabet Soup drill, he puts up a bunch of targets all over the range and steel targets along the back berm and different areas. He also includes hostage targets, staggered strategically. Toward the end of the day, final drill, he might have somebody — say a big buy who likes it a bit rough — get pushed a little bit when Daniel calls a number or a shape. The students are supposed to find the best place to engage that target from. They have to communicate with the people around them and get online with the target that they have to shoot close to. A lot of movement happens there. Nobody is downrange for the drill, but it gets the students moving and thinking.

33:50 What you don’t see on Instagram.

The square range mentality has gotten more popular than ever and Daniel thinks there’s a lot missing from what we see on Instagram. For instance, there isn’t just one bad guy out there all the time. And, square range practice doesn’t really incorporate reality-based stuff. “What you’re talking about it decision making. Not every target requires a shot. I might call a number that’s not even out there. And they shouldn’t draw their gun. Instead, they should investigate, talk, think, and even ask. If there’s no target and you’re just waving the gun around, you’re doing a really good impression of an active shooter or murderer.”

There is a lot to think about and consider. Movement. Movement with a gun. If you’re moving with your gun concealed in a holster, you can do whatever. But if your gun comes out, you need to handle it with proficiency in a way that doesn’t look like you’re endangering the people around you. You need law enforcement officers to recognize you as a trained ‘good guy,’ and you need to have ‘good guy’ verbiage coming out of your mount.

36:15 Training Scars

Brandon agrees on the flat range mentality, saying that people can learn more training scars from a flat range than they can with real-world applicable tactics and shooting. For instance, if you have an active shooter at the mall, you’re going to keep your gun holstered until you find the threat, seek cover, find the most advantageous position, and then draw when you actually have a threat. Or maybe you’ll do a super low pro concealed. But the whole social media cool-guy image that somehow converted to ‘this guy is the knowledgeable person is inaccurate. The guys that Brandon respects and seeks instruction from are actually the guys who have no social media — but they’ve actually done it.

And then, you have to consider the background (or your environment as a third-dimensional whole). Ultimately, you are your own first responder. Average everyday shooters are dealing with massive backgrounds (as opposed to a berm interrupting your line of fire), fleeing people, and basically — absolute chaos.

Brandon illustrates his point by describing his experience at a Dallas BLM riots a couple of years ago.

“I have been shot at. I have shot at people. Done some wazoo sh*t in my life overseas. I will absolutely say that that was ..the most… the city’s, proverbial — on fire. Buildings are on fire. Vehicles are getting smashed into, and flipped over. Vehicles are on fire. Downtown Dallas—beautiful part of downtown. Nice restaurants, nice streets. The city was absolutely on fire, it was wild.

“They called in state troopers, DPS (Department of Public Safety), every surrounding agency got called in and had some type of ‘on the ground’ presence during that because it was just absolutely wild. My department, my team and a couple of other teams were called up and we did kind of a like a roving QRF (Quick Response Force).

“So during that whole night, we were out there for like nine hours. During that night, when something would pop off in one area, one of our teams that was close to it would just go ahead and work their way through the city to that area and try and handle it as best they can.

“Case in point… the Whole Foods is being broken into. They’re smashing windows, yadda yadda… our team moved through the city — I’m talking, like, moving around barricades, trying to go through alternate streets because Google maps is worthless because everything is blocked off. There were cars stacked up, crowds that wouldn’t let you pass throwing cinder blocks at your vehicle. Trying to get through all these problems, it was weird.

“Like I said, I’ve been shot at, I’ve shot at people, demolished buildings with hand grenades, seen what thermobaric grenades do to buildings, seen rockets launch.. all of that stuff overseas was cool. It was kind of — normal — desensitized to it. That environment in downtown Dallas a couple of years ago, was wild for me. At any minute, if some shot rings out from a crowd if some shot comes from the top of a building — which, we were just rolling around in Tahoes, where is it coming from? There are thousands of people out on the street, all saying “Fu*k the police.” “Death to the Cops.”

“You want to talk about, like, Holy Sh*t backstop? I have like, no target indicators, I was sitting there like, this is going to suck! How do we react to this? We’re going to be getting shot at from something, very limited cover in the middle of the streets.

“Now we’ve got to move to positions of cover around pillars and buildings and whatnot. The communication was all over the place because every agency was working on a different radio channel. It was not war, I will give you that, but that was weird. If a shot rings out, we’ve got to realistically — we’ve got to respond to it and move towards it. But dude, the backgrounds are insane. You have to truly get on top of wherever this threat is as best we can. We aren’t going to have a shot until we are right on top of this dude. That’s wild.”

42:38 Change in Thinking

The riots in Dallas and all over the country changed the way Daniel looks at a lot of things, especially how he advises people on what to do in a self-defense situation. He relates the riot situations to the Three Block War concept. The riots were like that and they changed a lot for the armed citizen. “It’s changed my thought process on my immediate response.” He says it also changed how we look at mob violence. It’s a very dangerous thing. And being exposed with no cover is a scary thing. You know it’s coming, but where is it coming from?

Brandon says that a lot more people need to start thinking about the principles and processes of what they’re doing. Ultimately, always be thinking about the implementation of it. You could get really good at shooting, but you also need to start thinking about how good are at tactics. “Life preservation skills, in an actual “Oh, sh*t!” environment. I don’t think a lot of people are doing that.”

45:44 Do you know how to stop a bleed?

Daniel started incorporating bleeding control in his handgun. It has surprised him how much people don’t know. He asks, what is the most likely thing to happen, that you’ll need to protect yourself and loved ones? It should be knowing how to control bleeding, how to do CPR, and all manner of first aid skills. That’s the first line of defense.

The second line of defense is to carry and defend yourself with a firearm.  Later, get a rifle, and eventually get armor. With this hierarchy, you start by covering the highest-likely scenarios and go on to cover the least likely scenarios.

Brandon says this is a topic they’ve gotten into as well. They get a lot of questions from people who are just starting out on their journey about higher-level medical care than what will usually be needed in an immediate situation. Such as, what is the best gauge needle for needle compression or whether or not they need saline locks. He encourages them to try and think about realistic scenarios. “The biggest thing you can do is know how to accurately and confidently return fire and end a threat. Maybe control some bleeding while you’re hopefully already between those two and on the phone, or having someone on the phone with 911. Getting EMS to you and maybe stopping bleeding enough for EMS to get you to the hospital that’s maybe 5-10 minutes away.”

49:14 One environment in which the EMS can’t get in right away is in the event of an active shooter in a school. However, SOPs for this situation have changed across the country, with triage teams and second-responders going in, which has done a lot of good.

Sometimes people worry about losing a limb from a having tourniquet in place for too long or developing pneumothorax from using a chest seal for too long. But, after the Boston Marathon massacre, the American College of Surgeons determined that the best way to reduce loss of life in a mass-casualty event is to have on-scene responders who know how to control bleeding. That’s when they started the Stop the Bleed program and started making Stop the Bleed kits. What are the basic skills?

Brandon follows that list up by mentioning a cell phone. Which, obviously, you’ll need to call emergency services.

With all of this in place, you could be a force multiplier, and save a lot of lives

50:34 Be willing to help.

Taylor had an experience at the gym a couple of months ago, where he had to jump in to stop a bleed. A man hit his head on a steel bar, which caused a heavy bleed.

“He’s bleeding. He’s got such a hard impact he’s concussed on the ground. He’s awake but concussed on the ground.  I’m in there with one employee and three other guys. Everyone is just staring at this guy and I’m like give me that towel.

“I asked the guy that was working there, “Do you have a first aid station somewhere?”

The guy said, “That’s a dirty towel.”

“I was like, it doesn’t matter — this guy is bleeding out of his head! So people hear the commotion in the cardio room and they come in and all of a sudden you’ve got 20 people in there and I found out, later on, there was a nurse in there and she was still just in there to watch.

“I just knew I needed to stop this guy’s blood from coming out of his head and talk to the dude. And I’m sitting there and I’ve got a bunch of people standing there just watching. It blew my mind, especially when you see people just fumbling through their gym bag for their cell phone!”

Later as Taylor was going home and processing everything that had happened, he was glad he jumped in to help.

53:03 What if it takes a longer time for EMS to get there?

Some people worry about losing limbs from wearing a tourniquet too long or developing pneumothorax from having a chest seal in place for too long. Daniel offers reassurance on that. In the worst-case scenario, an active shooter, might be in the structure for an hour, maybe two. In that amount of time, you’re not going to lose a limb to a tourniquet.

“We’ve greatly exceeded that and proven that you’re not going to lose a limb. It’s not life before limb anymore, that’s BS. Same thing with needle decompression. Maybe if you’re planning for an apocalyptic type environment where we don’t have trauma centers anymore… We talk a lot and don’t train enough.”

53:53 Attitude is important.

Going back to the subject of social media, Brandon recognizes that it brings us many positive things, like friendships and unity. But it also often puts the wrong things in the spotlight. “And look at the media. Trauma sells.”

Political division is another thing that Daniel sees. People who agree with each other politically, geopolitically, on firearms and everything else can turn on each other too easily. “… if anybody says something different than the fake news that we refer to as fake news, over the past two or really six years, they are being called communist sympathizers. I’ve seen that in our community right now and that’s a bad, bad thing that’s happening because that’s exactly what the other side wants. We see the same thing in training and it’s annoyed me for a long time.”

Another thing he has noticed is the perception that the individual who gives zero f*cks is the most awesome. “We’re cheering on our people being assholes to each other. I think a man is measured by how many f*cks he gives, not how many he doesn’t give… We’re glamorizing a lot of the negative things in humanity because they somehow pretend like they’re masculine or tough. I think it’s poison.”

54:54 It’s about who you surround yourself with.

Taylor is part of a group chat with a bunch of shooting friends and Average Joe’s guys. “We talk about everything under the sun, from crap that doesn’t matter to I’m having a bad day, y’all cheer me up. We get positive, we get negative, but at the end of the day, we are each other’s accountability people. If I’m wrong, Brandon’s going to tell me I’m wrong. It’s the best part of our group. We are able to check each other and still go out… and learn from each other.”

The opposite of that can be seen in high-level politics. People surround themselves with others who encourage them no matter what they’re doing. They’ve never been held accountable for their problems and the things they’re doing wrong. As Daniel says, “They’ve just been cheered on, ‘it’s not your fault, it’s somebody else’s.’ If they’re constantly told they’re amazing, we see it in celebrities, too.” We all need somebody around us to keep us accountable.

In this episode of The Mag Life Podcast, Brandon Bridge and Taylor Crabtree join Daniel to talk about Average Joes, the value of teamwork, looking back on military service and the challenges of transitioning back to civilian life. On instagram you may know Brandon as Nine Banger and Taylor as Possum Puncher. Both of these guys work very heavily with the Average Joes Firearms Training Group. You may remember that we had Jimmy Rodriguez on the show recently and we’re big fans of what Average Joes does. 

https://media.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/s/content.blubrry.com/gunfightercast/Brandion_Bridge-Ninebanger_Average_Joes.mp3

With these three guys at the table, you’ll notice a coalignment of mission set. With Brandon and Taylor involved in Average Joes and Daniel running GunMag Training, they’re all involved in training folks to be better shooters. And they all embrace the benefits of mutually supporting each other’s work. 

As Daniel puts it, “I’ve never understood the at-each-other’s throats, competition side. We could get everybody who needs training in a class, filled and double the capacity of our classes, and we still wouldn’t be able to train everybody in our lifetime.” 

Listen in as the three discuss their experiences and goals as firearms instructors, with a look back to their military service and how it’s impacted their lives.

Host: Daniel Shaw

Guest: Brandon Bridge and Taylor Crabtree

Introduction/Timeline: Stephanie Kimmell 

1:15 Building the Training Community

Brandon points out that the Average Joes page strives to be a sounding board within the firearms training community. Instead of presenting the idea that their training is how everyone should do things, and that people should only come to their classes, they’re going forward with taking other people’s classes, and offering a snippet of the day, what it is, and where it’s at. They’ve had GunMag training on their page before, and others.

He says, “Average Joes is supposed to be a community, and it should also be a training community as well.”

2:25 The Value of Multiple Instructors

In the vast world of internet videos on firearm techniques, ideas, and concepts, Daniel notices comments from viewers who say, “no thanks, not really for me, I’m going to do what MY instructor said,” or “MY instructor said to do it this way.”

He says that tells him a lot of things. “You’ve not been exposed to enough things to really make a decision, if that’s what you should be doing or not. You need to expose yourself to more schools of thought, some more ways of thinking, more concepts and ideas. The priorities you get in my class are going to be based on my experience. It will be different with other instructors. The idea that we should listen to just one instructor in anything in life is just ridiculous — especially guns. I would like to be one of you many instructors in your quest for expertise.

3:51  Avoid Absolutes

Brandon says that one of the biggest things he tries to bring to the group at Average Joes is that he isn’t trying to show people THE way, he shows people multiple ways.

“Whether it be presentations, draw stroke, reloads, malfunctions, target transitions, eyes leading, and then different ways of working the trigger, be it pinning the trigger, in-flight reset, or whatever it might be. I try to demo all of the different ways to acheive a certain end-goal and then let the shooter, through excercises, figure out what they do and don’t like and find their preferred method.

“So if you come out to the average Joe’s classes, we do try to keep it very grounded: here’s all the ways you could do it, here’s the pros and cons of each one, and lets have some fun doing it. I think that’s how people learn.”

As an example, Taylor points out that they don’t present just one zero at Average Joes. Instead, “We’re going to go over the foundations of each one. One of the first thing we do in rifle class is we set everybody up and make sure they understand their zero and their holdovers… There’s more than one way to skin a cat.”

Daniel continues on that though by talking about how he covers zeroes and sending a slide home on an empty magazine after reloading.

“There’s people that say, everybody, everytime, the overhand rack, but I’m faster (and the shot timer says I’m faster) when I use the slide release. But then there’s some guns I can’t use the slide release on. There are times when, without thinking about it, I’ve reverted to the more inverted rack, where I’m just using both arms to complete the thing a little bit faster. It’s not my desired technique. It’s not my favorite of all of them, but I don’t have favorite techniques. Just like I don’t have favorite politicians.

“I don’t have favorite anything, just what is the best thing going to be for me to do right now. I’ve practiced them all at a level to where subconscously, my brain can take a fast path and just retrieve the right variation of the technique for the given situation. You don’t get that if you only have one technique.”

Brandon expands on that idea by telling us how he explains it to the new shooters in his classes. It’s about understanding the principles of what you’re trying to achieve and knowing multiple ways of doing it.

“… standing on the flat range, side-prone under a car, or behind a barricade, or in a confined position—as long as I understand the principles of what I’m trying to do, and I understand the multiple methods of doing it, if I can figure out in that situation, I can try to acheive the best outcome through multiple different ways of knowing how to do something.”

6:50 Capitalizing on a Teachable Moment

Sometimes during a class, an unexpected issue will come up that wasn’t part of the plan for the day. That happened to Brandon recently when he was a guest instructor. His block of instruction had to be very short and he wasn’t planning to go in-depth on rifle or pistol malfunctions. However, they had a bolt override on the course of fire, “The shooter goes down, buttstock still extended all the way. Cease fire. Hold what you got.”

He realized it was a perfect learning moment. He caught it right before the buttstock hit the ground, right before the buffer tube collapsed.

“We went into an indepth thing. I asked him, in front of the group because it was a learning thing, “What were you about to do?” He said, “Well, I had a failure to extract, I was about to mortar that out, then I was going to gas it back up when it was clear.”

Brandon explained to the student that there was no way that mortaring it would have done anything except further wedge the internals to the rear and get the brass stuck even more. He showed the guy the proper way to do it to avoid bending the buffer tube. From there, they discussed recognizing the difference between brass-over-bolt and bolt override, and multiple different ways to clear the bolt.

Daniel says that he works through stoppages with his students in all of his carbine classes. 

“We’re talking about failure to feed, failure to fire, double feeds, failure to ejects, some of the weird stuff that happens like charging handle impingements, and brass above bolt. There’s nothing that can happen to this gun that can’t be cleared in a matter of seconds, with even one hand available.”

He says that with a rifle, it’s super simple if you know how to do it. He’s watched tons of videos of law enforcement officer with handguns and rifles. In some, they have a problem with their rifle and put it down. 

“When I’m teaching law enforcement officers, I want to get one thing across to them—handguns suck. Rifles are much better at changing the behavior than handguns are. So if I’m going to go to a fight, I would like to have a rifle with me. And I would like to not trade that rifle for a handgun. So if I can keep my rifle running, I won’t have to trade it for a handgun.”

Consider the SOP for transitioning to your handgun. At what distance is it? Is it appropriate for your skill level? Is it appropriate for your team’s level of skill? 

It’s important to know how to clear stoppages, and some people have no idea how to do it. And, as Daniel points out, there is a by-the-book way to do it that is agreed upon as ‘industry standard’ but there can be other ways to accomplish it too if you understand it. 

This brings out an issue that comes up in training classes—sometimes people don’t want to look stupid so they don’t ask questions.

Brandon says, “It’s cool to know what you’re doing, so that makes it not cool to not know what you’re doing. A lot of times students won’t ask questions like that. If they don’t know about malfunctions. They’re not going to open up and say “Hey, I don’t know how to do that,” because they don’t want to feel stupid in front of other students.”

He also points out how instructors have different strengths. “There are those that can talk, there are those that can teach, there are those that can shoot.” He appreciates finding a person who has a really good balance between all three, and can bring all of it onto the range.

13:05 The Value of a Supportive Community

Although Brandon had a plan for eventually building his training business, it was the community that sparked its launch. According to his personal plan, he would get his own training business up and running after about ten years in law enforcement, fortified with the combined experience of wearing both the military and law enforcement uniforms.

But ultimately, it was his group of friends that he regularly shoots with that sparked the business. That group of friends quickly turned into a bunch of brand new shooters and local shooters in the area that said, “Hey, we would really love for you guys to teach some grounded, basic, intermediate and ground level classes.” 

Brandon and his buddies looked at each other and had that conversation. “What does this look like and can we do it? And then lo and behold, about a year later you have this whole Average Joes thing that popped up.”

With the support of the local community and all the people they knew, it caught fire. People loved the classes, the content, and the mindset of it all. And, it’s training as a group, not just one person putting forth their ‘gospel.’

As Daniel points out, a lot of the problems they’ve been discussing today won’t exist in that kind of environment. Students benefit from multiple insights. 

Brandon says they try to have at least three instructors at every class and they try to prevent one voice from overshadowing others. And the fact that the instructors have varied shooting backgrounds and experience only adds to the value of the classes. 

Taylor says, “Everyone at Average Joes relates to somebody. The diversity speaks volumes, especially at the range days. After we got done with our range days before our training events…t caught fire. It amazed us all. The outreach from the community for more and more and more. It’s just been overwhelming.”

16:39 Teaching New Shooters

Daniel says he loves teaching tactical teams, realizing that they get a lot of training. He gives them a lot of stuff to take back, and he enjoys it. But there’s a little bit of a thing in the gun world that he’s noticed. Not everybody wants to teach a brand new shooter — somebody that doesn’t have a clue. Some instructors just dont have the patience for that. But Daniel loves brand new shooters. And so does Brandon.

“I love those light bulbs coming on.”

“Yeah, it’s the best, right?”

Daniel says that the one thing he is good at in life is problem-solving. No matter what it is, he will figure out how to solve a problem. Thinking outside of the box, with resourcefulness, he is a problem solver. And that’s all the brand new shooter is. 

I’ve got a really strong suspicion that I know what your major problem’s going to be before you even pick up the gun. Everybody has it. And I’ve already got a plan to fix that. But what else are we going to run into along the way? That’s a good time.”

Daniel appreciates watching the beginning stages, where a new shooter goes from zero skill to significantly better. He says the amount of growth that can happen in one or two days with a brand new shooter can reach is impressive, say 50 percent better each day. And as the new shooters enjoy the instruction and gain confidence, they’re going to spread their exuberance in their own communities.

“It’s awesome to see, and it’s my favorite thing. And they’re also going to be the biggest advocates for you in the future and for whatever it is you’re doing. Average Joes… you guys have a lot of those. And they’re going to get their friends into it.  I’ve got people in classes all the time that tell me they don’t have any friends to go to the range with. Like, man, just go take a class one time. You’re going to have friends. Or even shoot in a competition.”

According to Brandon, the big Average Joes range days help people find others who live in their area. They are organized by zip code. So, when you go, you’ll be in a grop with people that are closest to you. The majority of people who attend Average Joes events are local shooters, but Taylor says people come out from other areas of the country. 

Alot of people ask when Average Joes is coming to their area. Brandon says, “This is not something that only exists within our ecosystem. It should be within the entire country. Go out, and look at the kind of stuff we’re doing, take it as kind of a game plan.”

They put all of their exercises out there with their mindset behind them, as well as how they train. They post videos and push their grounded mindset. “Go out with your buddies and have your own Average Joes range days where it’s you guys coming up with exercises and having fun, and pushing each other and learning.” (But, you know, don’t use their tradmark, right?)

22:14 How did Brandon get here?

Brandon’s path to Average Joes is a bit uncommon. He joined the army, served in a Ranger battalion, and has been working as a law enforcement officer and in the gun world since he got out. So how did he land in Texas, become a law enforcement officer, and become involved in the community helping regular armed citizens become a little more regulated?

Brandon says it was, “God’s plan. I will say that there were a lot of instances where there was a lot of luck, but ultimately someone had a plan for how things were going to go.”

Going back to the beginning, Brandon says he had a normal childhood. He graduated high school in ’06, then went to college in ’07-’08. At college, he was frustrated. He was a typical party kid and not a whole lot was getting done. He felt no purpose there and was haning out with the wrong people. But he had a buddy who went to remigment a couple of years before him who told him about the training and deployment cycles. I was like, “Man, that sounds really cool. I’m going to go jump out of a helicopters. I want to go overseas.”

So here’s what happened. One night he was closing down at Home Depot, where he worked. It had been a bad day. So around 11:00 at night a recruiter came through with a couple of high and tight, super-ruck dudes wearing their PT outfits. “He just comes over to me—he was in uniform, and he comes over and he goes: “Having a bad night?” I was like, “Yeah, shit night, hate it.” Slipped me his card and [said], “Just call me.” I was like, OK that’s a great sales pitch—”Call me.” It was like I just got picked up at a bar.”

Brandon had given college the old college try, for his mom. But ultimately, he hated college. He was bored, unchallenged, and couldn’t stand it. I wanted to go to a bigger pond. “You always strive for a bigger pond, because if you get comfortable and complacent, life sucks. And life sucked for me.”

A week later Brandon was at the recruitors office, and three weeks later he was off. “I left by December of ’08 and by the first quarter of 2009, I was in 3rd Ranger Batallion. I went straight to the line platoons, with 3rd Ranger Bat.”

Brandon served just over six years with five deployments, doing all the cool-guy stuff. His first three deployments were in the line platoons, and after his third deployment his platoon sargeant asked him to move over to the recce sections with him. Brandon says he didn’t have any idea what that was all about, but, always looking for a bigger pond, he knew he’d gain a more specific skill set. His last two deployments were spend in 3rd Ranger Battalion’s recce team. Ultimately, those skills have been very applicable to the law enforcement world.

At this point the conversation takes a turn toward looking back at military service. Brandon says he was, “Blessed to have served with the guys that I did and do the stuff that I did, because, sometimes I look back and I’m like yeah, how am I still here?”

Daniel says he thinks the same thing, “How did I not get in trouble and kicked out? How did I not this? How am I still alive? Right? Owe it to a lot of people.”

Brandon says when he looks at some of the old documents — the commendations and such — he thinks, “Man, that stuff really did happen.”

26:24 Looking Back on Military Service

Since Daniel got out and started teaching armed citizens, he’s been surprised by how they appreciate military service. “It was weird to me how appreciative they are of military service — the things that they do, or the things that they say, and how they express it. I’m not talking about the awkward, “Thank you for your service,” but they really hold your service in a higher reverence and regard than I ever held for anything that I did. It took me a while to transition and to realize that.

In the last couple of years, he’s been thinking more about it — the things that he did that risked his life because really, he’d be embarrassed not to, considering the people he was surrounded with. Being a leader in the Marines held him to a higher standard and motivated him. “It’s like, I wasn’t doing these things. It was part of the programming. It took me a long time to realize exactly what we did, and the magnitude of it. I don’t even know if I still truly get it.”

But he thinks that the citizens who didn’t do it have a completely different perspective. Some veterans will say that people who didn’t serve in the military will never get it, but Daniel says, “Man, sometimes I think I don’t get it. But they get it better than me. Because it was everyday life, and you just kind of gloss over it.”

“But I hear them, and now that I’m older and I’m thinking about it, I’m like, that was significant. And I could have not been here. There’s a lot of things that… wouldn’t have happened if that didn’t work out the way it did. And there was a thousand other options for how it could work out a different way. So, its really weird looking back on that.”

 Brandon comments on how he’s noticed that the people who are most appreciative of it are the people that aren’t in the US but the people actually in those countries where they served.

Another thing these guys talk about from the time they were in the service is how social media wasn’t as prevalent and they didn’t have personal cameras at the ready. For Daniel, back in 2003, they all had disposable cameras.

Brandon says he has hardly any photos from his early deployments, largely because he was in a total OPSEC (operations security) environment. Cell phones were not allowed and Brandon says it’s the same thing in law enforcement. “A lot of SWAT teams don’t want to take a lot of photos, but ultimately what do you have to look back on? If at the end of your career you look back on, I wish I had more photos from my first, second, third…”

Both guys got some cool pieces of paper, and Brandon has some cool photos, but it’s nothing like nowadays.

Daniel says if he could change anything, he wouldn’t change his path, but he would have had a camera with him to take video and photos. I definitely would have taken some more pictures and enjoyed some moments a bit better, that you don’t realize at the time, they’re never coming again. It’s miserable, but it’s awesome at the same time.”

30:04 Back to Brandon’s Story

After he got out of the military in 2014, he was dating a girl and moved to Texas. Eventually, that relationship didn’t work out, but by God’s Grace, as he puts it, being in the area brought him opportunities that he would otherwise never have been exposed to. He applied for multiple jobs, but kept getting turned down. “All I wanted to do was to go back to school after the military and work at a gun shop. I just needed some kind of extra paycheck and I wanted to work in the firearms community.”

But then one day he was shooting at a pistol match and a guy who knew he was looking for work suggested he check out a new ammunition company that just started up. Long story short, he got on with a budding new ammunition company, Stand 1 Armory, and everything took off from there. 

“Doing that, one pond leads to the next. I was working at the ammunition company, doing all that, handling all their social media, got tied into ETTS, doing range days, met a couple of other vets who wanted to create a little training company out at ETTS. They brought me on and we started teaching classes out there together.”

After teaching for a couple of years, Brandon realized that he missed what he calls, “game days.” He had come from a team environment with different operational capacities. As things stood at that time, he had no game days. 

“It was just going to the range, putting holes in paper, I’m trying to figure out where the game day is, what am I ultimately training for? It’s great to keep regurgitating all these stories, this information, and teaching these shooters here, but ultimately where’s my growth? I wasn’t going to as many classes or training events, prepping for “game day.” And I missed the team environment. I missed the ready room. I missed the uniform. I missed the comm checks, I missed the team aspect. All of that.”

One of the guys he was shooting with asked him to come try out at one of the LE departments. He took the test, and fast-forward five and a half years, and now he is working with that guy in the same department. “He and I are almost blood brothers. We work together within the full-time SWAT team of our department, having those game days. It’s not just a range day. It’s not just a training day. It’s again training for game day, which we have quite a lot of those.”  

Brandon offers some advice to anybody who is getting out of the military: have a plan. You can do anything you set your mind to, just please, have a plan.

37:07 More on Transitions

Brandon talks about how working as a law enforcement officer is different from the military. “Under our penal codes, underneath the color of the law, what we do as SWAT officers, is a hundred thousand times different. I cannot overstate how different the two worlds are. And going from one world to the otherworld was, for a little while, quite challenging, and still is challenging today.

“I’m still finding those nuances of slowing things down, doing things a little more surgically, and then of course the tactics within the structure are completely night and day different. People don’t give SWAT officers enough credit for how stringent they have to train, what level they have to train to. It’s one thing to have an oopsie overseas, it’s a completely different thing to have it happen here in the states. It’s mind-blowing. There’s no room for error.”

Daniel says he always sees a transition for veterans who get out of the military. He believes he was lucky to have started this podcast several years before he got out because he had people helping him with the transition along the way. He has a lot of friends that he tries to help out that start teaching. Some of them get out and start teaching, locally or even nationally traveling around. They’re making that transition from military operations in an urban environment or some super high-speed SF-type stuff to self-defense situations that might occur at 2 a.m. at the gas pump with a couple of kids in the back seat. Or, in an in-home self-defense type situation.

“The team-based combat, pre-planned, executing an order—it’s very different than what we’re talking about when most defensive shootings occur. So, there’s a big transition.”

41:18 Appreciating Law Enforcement Officers

Daniel speaks to people in law enforcement:

“You guys, SWAT guys, regular patrol officers, whatever you’re doing, the idea right now, as much as you’re hated in this country. It’s still getting up, and putting that belt on, and going to work every day, it’s dedication.”

He has been teaching for seven years at the Ohio Tactical Officers Association (OTOA), where he’s met and learned from a lot of ‘switched on’ people.

“These are good people. It bothers me a lot when people are downing on officers, because they don’t know them like I know them. I also know some that they are absolutely right about. That they’re absolutely wrong, for this country, for our freedom, for our liberty, for the way that we do things, for American values — but that’s not most. 

Brandon agrees, noting that with any organization there will be bad apples. But in large part he doesn’t thin law enforcement officers get the credit they’re due. There are millions of LE officers, but one bad experience with a law enforcement officer can cause a social media storm with profound impacts throughout the community.

Brandon says the average patrol officer is not appreciated enough, “Because there is no other job where people are slaving day in, day out for 12, 14 hour days — that mundanity — and you’re waiting for game day. You’re having to go from one traffic accident to the next and you’re slaving away.

“If you’re a patrol officer and you’re listening, and you don’t know if it’s worth it, trust me, your job is worth it. Your game day will eventually come. You cannot stop training for game day. Stay switched in and don’t give up. The media doesn’t hate you, America doesn’t hate you. Just stay switched on, because it’s coming.” 

He further encourages patrol officers to, “Stay focused on the positive contacts. If you get so hung up on all your negative contacts, its going to grind you down. Stay focused on that — “Wow! I really did do that. Wow! I really did help pull that person out of a burning car. Wow! I really did pull that girl off of a bridge who was about to jump.”

“Think about all of those positive contacts that you’ve had and don’t those fade away into obscurity with the hundreds of people that are going to yell at you because you’re not doing your accident report correctly. Don’t get discouraged by that. Stay switched on because you are needed.”

44:13 The Power of Positivity

At this point, the conversation turns to how the ability to keep a positive outlook makes a difference in life. Daniel says he doesn’t run into a lot of combat veterans that are as hippie as he is about positivity, but he’s not sure when he became that way. 

“Was talking with a friend recently, talking about Ukraine, pop culture, and some other things and I was like, “Man, when did I become a hippie?” When I was a kid, we looked at people from the 60s and 70s — the hippies, and I’ve kindof become that way. I’m still totally cool with violence when it’s warranted, turn it to 11. But, at the same time, I’m cool with just being nice to everybody and promoting this idea of positivity and togetherness. Tu Lam was on the podcast recently, he’s also a thinker like that.”

Daniel finds that the veterans who have the mindset of finding the positives, and who cognitively choose to not respond negatively to things they would otherwise respond negatively to, are more successful, calm, down to earth, and just chill. 

“Maybe they deal with some depression, PTSD, some things like that, but it doesn’t take over their life. I think it’s because they have that hope. It might be spirituality, your positive mindset, despite some things you’ve been involved in and seen in your life, but you’re choosing the positive path, when it would be so easy and you would have every excise to choose the negative path. ”

In Daniel’s problem solver class, he tells his students there’s always a way to fight. “You gotta find it. You can take a break when it gets dark. There’s always a — your gun goes down, your arm’s broken, whatever happens, there is always a way to fight. It might be the most awkward shooting position ever. Whatever. Find a way to get hits. And, I think in life, that same mentality works, too.”

Whatever it is you want to achieve, you may have a lot of work ahead of you, but every day that you don’t take a step in that direction is one more day until you achieve your goal. So it’s all about doing.

Taylor brings up one small way he keeps himself motivated with Post-It notes he keeps in his vehicles and on top of his mirror at home. 

“It’s just a simple message and it helps me. Every day I listen to it, I move forward in my life. It says, “Do better.” “Do it better.” is what it says in my work vehicles. I’ll get in my truck — I’ve had a bad day — “Do it better.” It’s just simple, it’s easy, its maybe not what you want to hear at the time. Or, when I’m having a great day — everything’s going right — I just made a great sale for the company, my guys are doing awesome, and I sit there and I see, “Do it better.” It’s how I like to live. It helps me move forward in everything I do. And every time I just shut up and listen to myself, and just do it better — because you can every day — the jumps in my life have been enormous.”

Brandon’s motivational motto is inside his range box. Every time he opens it, he sees, “Don’t suck.”

And that’s the thing about standards. If you hang out with a group of people who have low standards for whatever they’re doing, whether it be life, shooting, or anything else, you’re going to adopt low standards yourself. But, if you hang out with people who have high standards, and you mutually hold each other to high standards, everybody’s going to grow and maybe even exceed your standards to set new ones. 

Together we achieve more. Since the dawn of humanity, we have not done a very good job as individuals, but when we form up in tribes and get together, we can survive, we can overcome a lot of stuff.