August 18, 2025

The Missing Piece in Church Maturity w/ Alan Hirsch

41 minutes

When we talk about how mature our church is, we often think about its age, programs, or leadership structures. But the Church is none of those things—it’s people. And every person is a gift Jesus has given to his Church. The real question is… are your people mature?

In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, I’m joined by my good friend Alan Hirsch, one of the most trusted voices in the missional movement. Together, we explore why so many churches remain stuck in growth and maturity—and how Ephesians 4 gives us a surprisingly simple key to unlocking both. We’ll see that this passage isn’t just about leadership—it’s about all of us, living in the fullness of life Jesus experienced with his Father and intended for his family.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

The overlooked “key” to unity and maturity found in Ephesians 4

How to see leadership and ministry through a biblical, life-giving lens

Why you are a gift to your church and community, given by Jesus himself!

What happens when churches ignore or limit the 5 gifts Jesus gave to his people

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From this episode:

“Here’s what’s exciting… We often use it (Eph. 4) as a leadership conversation, actually in the book of Ephesians, it’s not about leadership. The first instance and radical way of taking this is that the heroes of the text would not be a group of leaders from a seminary, it’s a group of local hacks and local churches. And they were small house churches, Missional sites.”

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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living.

Take the Free five-fold survey here.

The Permanent Revolution Playbook

5Q: Reactivating the Original Intelligence and Capacity of the Body of Christ

Missio Publishing – More Missional Books and Resources

Get Caesar’s latest book: Bigger Gospel for FREE… Click Here

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