The Next 100 Days Podcast

This podcast is all about founders having the capacity to grow. Nicola Anderson is a Business Growth expert and she shares her DASH framework to help founders push on from the £1-5m turnover level.

• Founder Bottleneck: Business growth often stalls at £1M–£5M turnover because the founder becomes the decision-making bottleneck, losing the strategic headspace needed for further expansion.
• DASH Framework: Nicola Anderson's framework (Delegate, Automate, Stop, Hire) provides a structured process to create capacity to grow before hiring, which prevents costly mistakes and ensures new roles are strategic.
• Human-AI Integration: The most successful businesses will integrate human connection with AI efficiency. Over-reliance on AI from a single person creates significant operational risk and lacks the trust required for major deals.
• Strategic Exit: Founders often seek to shift from day-to-day operations to a strategic role (e.g., Chairman) to gain lifestyle freedom without full retirement, requiring a business that functions independently.

• Businesses naturally grow around the founder, making them the central hub for all decisions.
• This model is sustainable to a point (e.g., £1M–£5M turnover) but eventually leads to the founder being consumed by day-to-day tasks.
• Consequence: Growth stalls because the founder loses the strategic headspace required for innovation, planning, and external opportunities like acquisitions.
• Impact: This also erodes the personal freedom and work-life balance the founder initially sought.

• The DASH framework provides a structured process to create capacity to grow before hiring, preventing costly mistakes.
• D → Delegate: Identify tasks that can be delegated.
• Prerequisite: Trust in the team is essential for effective delegation.
• Rationale: Delegate non-core tasks to free up time for enjoyable, high-value work.
• A → Automate: Use technology (e.g., CRMs, AI agents) to handle repeatable tasks.
• S → Stop: Eliminate unnecessary activities (e.g., redundant reports, legacy spreadsheets) that add no value.
• H → Hire: Only hire after completing the first three steps.
• Rationale: This ensures new roles are strategic and prevents hiring at the wrong level (e.g., a full-time COO vs. a fractional one).
• Risk: Hiring too quickly creates another "wire" (decision point) for the founder if the role isn't clearly defined.

• The most successful businesses will effectively integrate human talent with AI tools.
• Risk of AI-Only Models: Graham cited an example where a large company rejected an AI service provider after discovering it was a one-person operation.
• Reason: The operational risk was too high (e.g., if the person became unavailable), and the lack of human connection undermined trust.
• Human Connection: People buy from people they know, like, and trust, especially for significant investments. AI should support, not replace, this connection.

• Typical Clients: Founders at £1M–£5M turnover facing stalled growth, burnout, or preparing for an exit.
• Client Goals:
• Create a saleable business that doesn't depend on the founder.
• Shift from day-to-day operations to a strategic role (e.g., Chairman) for more lifestyle freedom.
• Engagement Model:
• Phase 1 (Intensive): A 30-day engagement for £2,500 to apply the DASH framework and create an action plan.
• Phase 2 (Partnership): Ongoing support for accountability and implementation, with a team of freelancers for specific tasks (e.g., CRM setup).
• Example: Nicola's work with David B. Horne helped him define the CEO role ("Karis") needed to transition to a Chairman position.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

Dr Amanda Gummer, founder of FUNdamentally Children, is a renowned child development expert, and often features in media discussing the role of play in learning. Through FUNdamentally Children and the Good Play Guide, she offers valuable insights on educational toys and parenting, helping families make informed choices for their children's development and well-being.

This podcast explores play's role in child development and brand strategy.

• Mission: FUNdamentally Children translates academic research into practical advice for kids' brands (toys, media, education) to improve products and policy.
• Method: Research uses naturalistic observation in familiar settings to capture meaningful data, avoiding the "strange kids in strange places" bias of traditional lab studies.
• Impact: Services de-risk product launches (e.g., preventing a faulty toy release) and sharpen marketing (e.g., identifying a "pizza delivery boy" character as the licensing driver).
• Challenge: The biggest barrier is the perception of play as frivolous, which hinders its recognition as a powerful tool for developing critical life skills.

• FUNdamentally Children bridges the gap between academic research and practical application for kids' brands.
• Clients: Toy companies, digital game developers, TV content creators, playground designers, and policymakers.
• Core Principle: The Maya Angelou quote, "When you know better, do better." The company provides the "better" knowledge.

• Research avoids the "strange kids in strange places" bias of traditional lab studies.
• Method: Observe children in familiar settings with trusted people to capture authentic behavior.
• Quality Control: Rigorously vets other research papers (e.g., for the Children's Media Association) to ensure data validity.

• Funding comes from corporate clients paying for research and workshops.
• De-Risking Product Launches:
• Identified a faulty Thomas the Tank Engine toy (pegs too small for holes) in playtesting, preventing a negative launch and PR.
• Provided evidence to defend a toy train from a "toy train makes kid bald" headline, proving it was a user accident, not a product fault.
• Sharpening Marketing & Licensing:
• Research for a kids' TV show about motorbikes found the "pizza delivery boy" character was the most popular.
• Insight: Kids were focused on the pizza, not the bike's design or the show's friendship theme.
• Action: This insight redirected the licensing strategy to focus on the pizza theme.

• Play is a powerful tool for developing critical skills (critical thinking, self-reliance, social skills) that traditional education often misses.
• DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion):
• Focuses on practical accessibility (e.g., wheelchair ramps in playgrounds) to ensure all children can participate.
• Distinguishes this from political debates like transgender athletes in sports, which are separate biological issues.
• Play Commission:
• Amanda was a commissioner on this year-long project, which produced the "Raising the Nation" report.
• Goal: Provide evidence to government on play's impact across education, health, and youth justice.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

Abel Prieto joins The Next 100 Days podcast to discuss InCruises as a side gig opportunity and its business model.

• Unique Membership Model: InCruises doubles members' monthly contributions (e.g., $100 → $200) into "Reward Points" for travel, forcing savings and guaranteeing a minimum 25% discount on bookings.
• Strategic Growth Engine: The affiliate model is a key driver for cruise lines, as 75% of InCruises' travelers are first-time cruisers—a market segment the lines struggle to reach directly.
• Significant Income Potential: The UK market is largely untapped. A mid-level goal of building a team generating ~$250k/month in sales yields a personal income of ~$50k/month (~£38k).
• Watertight Affiliate Tracking: The referral-link-only sign-up process prevents commission loss, a common problem with cookie-based affiliate programs.

• InCruises (corp. name: InGroup) is a travel club founded in 2016 by Frank Codina. Abel was onboarded as a Communications expert.
• Membership Tiers:
• Member: Pays a monthly fee (e.g., $100 or $250) which the company matches 100% in "Reward Points."
• Example: A $2,000 cruise costs the member $1,000 in cash and $1,000 in company-matched points, representing a 50% total value.
• Guaranteed Savings:
• Using Points: 25% minimum discount.
• Using Cash (Insider Pricing): 17% minimum discount.
• Key Rule: Points are for travel only and are non-refundable, ensuring members use them for vacations. They are transferable upon death.
• Partner: An affiliate who sells memberships.
• Partner Member: Both a paying member and an active affiliate.
• Company Profitability:
• Wholesale Pricing: InCruises buys travel inventory at wholesale rates.
• Commissions: Earns commissions from cruise lines on bookings.
• Unused Points: Profits from points that are never redeemed.

• Growth:
• Sales: $350M in 2023.
• Customers: 750k+ travelers.
• Inventory: 21k+ cruises, 430k+ hotels, 350k+ tours.
• Untapped Markets: The UK and Europe are largely unpenetrated, offering significant growth potential.
• Demographic Shift: Cruising is attracting a younger audience with more diverse offerings (e.g., Virgin Cruises, onboard activities), expanding the market beyond traditional demographics.

• Affiliate Model: Partners sell memberships, not individual travel bookings.
• Income Potential (UK Context):
• Mid-Level Goal: Generate ~$250k/month in team sales.
• Required Team: ~500–1,000 paying members.
• Resulting Personal Income: ~$50k/month (~£38k).
• Graham's Initial Strategy:
• Initial Test: A careers fair booth with a costumed "stewardess" (Karina) and leaflets to gauge interest.
• Target Audience: Affluent individuals (45+) who can afford the monthly membership.
• Leverage Existing Assets: Use the "finelyfettled" database of 278k cruise-takers for targeted outreach.
• Future Innovation: Develop an AI-powered "core agent" to provide personalised travel recommendations, adding value beyond the standard platform. 

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs. Through his https://upperdeck.cruises website, Graham introduces people to inCruises. Become a member today by clicking here

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

Rest Tech innovator Shalece Daniels previously built and operated a seven-figure real estate investment and property management firm, coached multiple seven-figure businesses on scaling, then stepped fully into her zone of genius as an executive rest coach. Shalece created FLOW, an AI rest-tech assistant for organisations, and delivers corporate rest workshops that upgrade meeting norms, cut decision fatigue, and protect recovery time.

• 90-Second Reset: Emotions metabolise in 90 seconds. Shalece's method uses specific tools (e.g., Mind Fold, bubble-blowing) to reset the nervous system from "fight or flight" to "rest and digest," enabling clearer thinking.
• Data-Driven Proof: A smart ring tracks Key Relaxation Indicators (KRIs) like heart rate and HRV. This anonymised data proves the program's effectiveness to corporate clients, overcoming a key sales hurdle.
• Referral-Based Growth: The business grew from personal burnout and a Costa Rica sabbatical. Referrals from initial clients and a vocal advisory board were the primary drivers for landing larger corporate contracts.
• Respectful Disagreement: A discussion on DEI and immigration highlighted how personal experience shapes perspective, reinforcing the need for tools to manage emotional triggers and maintain respectful dialogue.

• High-pressure work environments keep leaders in a "fight or flight" (sympathetic) state, which impairs decision-making.
• The goal is to shift into the "rest and digest" (parasympathetic) state, creating the mental space for clear, strategic thinking.

• The method is based on Dr. Jill Bolte-Taylor's research: emotions metabolise in 90 seconds.
• Key Tools & Rationale:
• Mind Fold: An eye mask that blocks light while eyes remain open. The brain's confusion triggers an automatic reset.
• Bubble Blowing: Exhaling longer than inhaling activates the vagus nerve, lowering heart rate and inducing calm.
• Acupressure Wristband: Stimulates the P6 nerve to reduce anxiety.
• Foot Roller: Activates nerve endings in the feet for discreet, bottom-up grounding.
• Personalised Approach: The method is tailored to the individual ("N=1"), requiring participants to find the 1–3 tools that work best for their nervous system.

• Key Relaxation Indicators (KRIs): A smart ring tracks vital signs (e.g., heart rate, HRV) to provide objective data.
• Corporate Dashboard: Anonymised data from all participants is aggregated into a dashboard.
• Why it matters: This data-driven proof overcomes the "how do I know it works?" question from corporate clients, enabling the program's sale and adoption.

• Origin: The method was developed after Shalece experienced burnout and took a sabbatical in Costa Rica.
• Initial Growth: Spread organically through referrals from a personal network who noticed a positive change.
• Scaling: A vocal advisory board and speaking engagements helped attract larger corporate clients.
• Program Delivery: Includes a physical kit, video exercises via QR code, and a tiered service model.

• A discussion on DEI and immigration highlighted how personal experience shapes perspective.
• Key Insight: Acknowledging that everyone is "triggered" by different inputs underscores the value of having tools to manage emotional responses and maintain respectful dialogue.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

Mark Sherwood Edwards is the Sales Side Lawyer. This podcast is all about having a sales-centric approach to legal contracting.

• Problem: ~50% of deals die in contracting, often due to lawyers acting as a "Department for Sales Prevention" and triggering buyer anxiety.
• Solution: Treat legal risk as a price point. Frame buyer requests (e.g., for unlimited liability) as commercial choices that increase the price, shifting the negotiation from legal to business.
• Tactic: Reduce buyer anxiety by offering easy-out clauses (e.g., monthly after 12 months). This builds trust and forces the seller to focus on service quality to retain customers.
• Goal: Move all deals toward "no-touch" contracting (e.g., click-through T&Cs) to eliminate negotiation friction and speed up deal closure.

• Lawyers often act as a "Department for Sales Prevention," slowing deals and creating friction.
• The "Spoon" Analogy: Lawyers often make minor, risk-averse changes that alter the deal's structure, even if the core agreement is sound.
• Key Driver → Buyer Anxiety: The primary obstacle is a buyer's personal risk ("Fear of Messing Up"), not just corporate risk.
• Why: A long, complex contracting process increases the risk of the deal failing due to external factors (e.g., strategy changes, competitor bids).

• Core Principle: Treat legal risk as a price point.
• How: Frame buyer requests for increased risk (e.g., unlimited liability) as commercial choices that will increase the price.
• Why: This shifts the negotiation from a legal debate to a commercial one, where business stakeholders are more reasonable and budget-conscious.
• The "Sales Side Setup": Prepare for this by stating upfront in proposals that pricing is based on your standard T&Cs and that changes may affect the price.
• Easy-Out Clauses: Offer flexible termination terms (e.g., monthly after an initial 12-month period).
• Why: This reduces buyer anxiety and forces the seller to maintain high service quality to retain the customer.
• Caveat: This approach may not suit deals with high upfront costs (e.g., outsourcing), where a longer lock-in is needed to reach profitability.

• Contracting Spectrum: Classify deals into three types and aim to move all toward "no-touch."
• No-Touch: Click-through T&Cs (e.g., Google, HubSpot).
• Low-Touch: Minor negotiations.
• High-Touch: Significant negotiation.
• Simplify Contracts:
• Use plain English and clear headings.
• For simple deals, use a signed letter of agreement instead of a formal contract.
• Payment Terms:
• Goal: Get paid in advance to eliminate the need for legal recovery clauses.
• Response to Long Terms: Counter with a price increase (e.g., 5%) or remove scope to meet the budget.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from the UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

Kidzplay is a national soft-play membership network that Lisa built from scratch — a wholesale model in which we buy fixed table capacity from partner venues and resell it through memberships.

Lisa is an accountant! Kevin will be in heaven. PwC-trained ACA. 18 years in soft play. One MBO (Gameplay, sold to Game Group). Several businesses were built, a couple were buried, and a lot was learned.

Flat Cap Friday is a grassroots broker network I co-founded with Nigel Bowers. Regionally rooted, built around genuine peer connection. No pitch decks, no lead-gen noise — just good people showing up on Fridays. Wired is a five-pillar framework for founders who are running on empty: business, financial, body, relationships, restoration. Twelve weeks. Broughton Estate, North Yorkshire. Lisa builds businesses to be cash-generative, mission-driven, and eventually sold or handed on.

• Kids Play: A membership model solving venue cash-flow volatility by buying fixed-price slots, making family activities affordable and accessible.
• Wired Framework: A coaching program using 12-week sprints to help founders align business strategy with personal purpose, health, and freedom.
• Core Purpose: All ventures are unified by a mission to build community and combat loneliness, stemming from a personal experience.
• Strategic Shift: A new model of delegating operational work enables a strategic focus on high-level thinking and personal freedom.

• A crisis of connection stems from modern pressures (cost of living, screen time), causing parents to sacrifice family time and leading to a youth mental health crisis.
• COVID-19 highlighted the devastating impact of lost social interaction on children's development.
• Lisa's mission is to bring families together and ensure no one feels lonely.

• Origin: Evolved from a soft play center Lisa bought in 2007.
• Business Model: A monthly membership for unlimited access to partner venues (soft play, farms, classes).
• Customer Benefit: Affordable, stress-free family activities.
• Venue Benefit: Stable, predictable income to offset cash-flow volatility (e.g., a sunny half-term cut revenue from a projected £30k to £4k).
• Mechanism: Kidzplay buys fixed-price slots from venues, de-risking their economics.
• Wider Purpose:
• Soft Play: Provides a safe space for physical activity and teaches sharing.
• Classes: Develop fine motor skills (e.g., needlework) to counter screen-time effects.
• Farms: Educate children on food origins.

• A coaching program for founders based on Lisa's personal journey from traditional accounting to purpose-driven entrepreneurship.
• Core Philosophy: Prioritize personal health and purpose first; business success will follow.
• Structure: 12-week sprints of intense focus, followed by a 1-month consolidation/rest period.
• Method: Uses the "7 Layers of Why" technique to help founders uncover their true purpose.
• Delivery: Full-day workshops at Broughton Estate to provide a focused, out-of-environment experience.

• Lisa's model is to delegate operational work to focus on high-level strategy.
• Rationale: This approach enables personal freedom and prevents burnout, a lesson learned from past overwork.
• Example: After realizing she was "making herself busy" with pitch decks, Lisa made the direct call to a key venue owner, Nick, securing a meeting.
• Other Ventures:
• Flat Cap Fridays: A relaxed, pub-based networking group.
• Inspiring Women: A goal to show women that career paths are non-linear and self-imposed limits should be challenged.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from the UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

Burnout expert Dr Anton Janse van Rensburg is a practising medical doctor from Pretoria, South Africa, with 27 years of experience as an Integrative Practitioner. Besides his MBChB degree, he has a Master’s degree in Applied Human Nutrition from the University of Pretoria, and an Advanced Management Diploma from Manchester Business School. He is also a trained metal toxicologist.

His clinical practice focuses on burnout, mood disorders, adjuvant therapy for cancer patients, auto-immune disorders, severe intestinal conditions, and chronic infectious diseases.

• Burnout is a systemic depletion, not just fatigue. It results from neglecting many small, daily habits (rest, connection, diet), not just from overwork.
• Dr. Anton's method is prescriptive and holistic. It prioritises daily habits (e.g., 20-min power naps, strong connections) and uses comprehensive tests to find root causes before considering medication.
• Nutrition is a primary tool for managing chronic conditions. A high-fat, low-carb diet can reverse Type 2 diabetes and stabilise mood by reducing cravings for refined carbs and optimising brain chemistry.
• Purpose and challenge are critical for longevity. Complete retirement is a risk factor for rapid aging; staying engaged with meaningful work or new challenges is essential for maintaining brain health.

• Definition: A systemic depletion from neglecting many small, interconnected daily habits (physiological, emotional), not just from overwork.
• Origin of Insight: Dr. Anton's experience managing health for 9,000 workers on a high-stress construction site in Maputo, Mozambique (2000–2003).
• This role involved diagnosing 30–40 malaria cases daily and managing fatalities, providing a "crossroads" experience that informed his later focus on burnout.
• Dr. Anton's Prescriptive Approach:
• Initial Assessment: A deep history of work hours, rest habits, and personal connections.
• Daily Respite: Prescribes short, scheduled breaks to manage the body's natural circadian dip.
• Power Naps: 20-minute naps are ideal; naps >1 hour are detrimental to brain health.
• Social Connection: Emphasises strong relationships with friends, family, and colleagues, citing research on their importance for resilience and longevity.
• Physiological Testing: Uses comprehensive tests (bloods, stress ECGs) to find root causes, not just manage symptoms.
• Kevin's Experience: Burnout led to "reduced performance"—sitting at the desk with a large to-do list but accomplishing nothing.
• Solution: Stepped away from the desk more often and re-prioritised tasks to reduce stress.

• Definition: A broad term for unstable brain chemistry, which can manifest as sadness, cynicism, or even physical fatigue (e.g., heavy limbs, a known symptom of low serotonin).
• Societal Factors: Increased prevalence in younger generations is linked to social media exposure and a sedentary lifestyle, both of which negatively impact brain chemistry.
• Nutrition as a Primary Tool:
• Core Principle: The brain requires healthy fats (avocado, olive oil, nuts, meat) and is harmed by refined carbohydrates.
• Mechanism: A high-fat, low-carb diet reduces cravings for refined carbs, which drives illness and instability.
• Case Study (Mood Disorder): A patient with a severe mood disorder saw significant improvement within 48 hours of starting a high-fat, low-carb diet, avoiding hospitalization.
• Case Study (Type 2 Diabetes): A patient on metformin for 25 years was advised to challenge the medication's necessity.
• Process: A low-carb, high-fat diet for six months, monitored with fasting insulin and HbA1c tests, can reveal if the pancreas can function without medication.
• Outcome: If successful, medication can be slowly and carefully reduced.
• Calorie Counting: Dr. Anton strongly advises against restrictive diets and calorie counting, as they are unsustainable and against human nature.

• AI's Impact: The potential for AI to eliminate jobs raises concerns about a loss of purpose and meaning, which are often tied to work and contribution.
• Retirement & Longevity: Dr. Anton cautions that complete retirement is a risk factor for rapid aging.
• Recommendation: Stay engaged with meaningful activities (consulting, volunteering, mentoring) to maintain brain health and purpose.
• Challenge: The brain, like a muscle, needs to be challenged to grow and stay healthy. Avoiding challenges is detrimental to long-term well-being.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

RJ Talyor is the Founder and CEO of Backstroke a AI for eCommerce generative content platform for email marketers. Instantly create on-brand, high-performing email subject lines, preview text, mobile push notifications, and SMS messages.

Graham and Kevin introduce the Next 100 Days Podcast and welcome RJ Talyor from Indianapolis. RJ describes Indianapolis as offering the best of a big city with a small-city feel, with about a million people, great sports, culture, food, and good cost of living. He has traveled extensively but always enjoys returning home.

RJ introduces Backstroke.com, which generates performant email campaigns for e-commerce retailers selling clothes, pet food, furniture, and other products online and in-store. E-commerce brands typically expect 20-50% of revenue from email marketing while sending 3-5+ emails weekly, with customers spending 8-12 hours per campaign. Backstroke reduces this to approximately 15 minutes while personalising content so each customer receives a different message tailored to their interests and behaviour.

Backstroke personalises emails using multiple data layers: subscriber status, past engagement (opens, clicks, conversions), and appended third-party data revealing demographics like age, location, and gender. When additional data is unavailable, the platform uses progressive profiling—analysing engagement patterns to infer preferences. For example, if a customer consistently clicks on men's content over women's content, or prefers dark-coloured shirts over light ones, AI identifies these patterns to drive personalisation, which is more effective than manual analysis.

Graham shares a personal story about Son of a Tailor, a Portuguese apparel brand, where his initial experience was poor—they sent him a shirt too short for his frame. However, the company responded exceptionally well, ultimately creating a monogrammed, high-quality shirt that transformed him into an advocate. RJ explains this is valuable data: AI can flag customers who experienced negative-to-positive journeys as potential super-fans or loyalty advocates, a pattern most marketers miss because they lack time to identify such nuanced customer experiences.

Traditional RFM (Recency, Frequency, Monetary) models reduce customers to transactional data, but AI can extract signal from unstructured data to identify complex patterns. For instance, AI can recognize when a customer buys different sizes (suggesting purchases for others) or when multiple preferences exist within one account—like RJ's Spotify feed where his children's music preferences mix with his own. AI discerns these overlapping patterns that aren't immediately obvious to humans, enabling more sophisticated segmentation.

RJ co-founded Backstroke with his wife Allison, who holds a PhD in deep data analysis and chemical reagents, bringing statistical rigour and predictive modelling expertise. RJ's background includes starting Pattern89 in 2016, an AI company predicting Instagram and Facebook clicks using computer vision and natural language processing, which he sold to Shutterstock. Many Pattern89 team members joined Backstroke, bringing 10 years of AI-based marketing experience, while the team continuously innovates with new foundational models from Anthropic and OpenAI.

Backstroke achieves an average 30% uplift in conversion rates for new clients. Implementation typically takes about a month for full transformation, but recognising customer demand for faster results, the company launched "Surge," enabling campaigns to launch in 48 hours. This rapid-deployment feature demonstrates predictive capabilities quickly, satisfying customers who want immediate proof before committing to full onboarding.

While technically capable of generating 10,000+ unique email variants, Backstroke has found that customers require human review of every variant version. Current implementations range from 60-100 variants, with combinations of hero images, subject lines, and templates creating exponential possibilities. The company is building QA agents to enable scaling to millions of variants while maintaining human oversight, recognizing that creative teams ultimately bear responsibility for brand representation.

A fundamental tension exists between brand teams (who enforce guidelines like "models must face forward" or "only use this colour") and performance marketers (who know "shirts perform better laid on a bed than on a human"). RJ explains this is often gut-feel decision-making based on outdated tests—teams cite tests from a year ago by employees who've since left, creating stale guidelines. AI enables rapid testing of creative variations to identify incremental opportunities, but requires organisational willingness to experiment beyond established brand rules.

Rather than trying to convince resistant customers to embrace AI, RJ focuses on the "one in 10" truly innovative marketers willing to change. He learned from his previous business that most prospects claim interest but quickly reveal organizational barriers requiring approvals. His strategy is to identify customers genuinely committed to transformation and willing to pay, directing others to resources instead. This approach conserves energy for high-potential partnerships where AI can deliver real impact.

Backstroke solves the "what" problem: what content, subject line, preview, template, hero image, product display, and offer to send to each person. The platform knows that 46% of clicks occur in the first 400 pixels, so it optimizes that space differently for men versus women, loyal customers versus new ones, and geographic regions. This focused specialization on content optimization is Backstroke's primary value, distinct from solving "when" (send time) or "who" (segmentation) problems.

For marketers using standard LLMs without specialised platforms, RJ recommends uploading all previous email data and creative assets, then asking the machine to identify winning creative dimensions. This approach reveals patterns in subject lines, imagery, copy length, and offers without requiring subscriber-level analysis, enabling better-than-average results for those without access to specialised tools.

Kevin raises frustration with receiving excessive emails from companies he likes, asking if AI can enable sending less email while achieving better results. RJ explains that higher engagement with personalised content could theoretically reduce frequency, but email is fundamentally a frequency game—brands send multiple emails weekly to stay top-of-inbox when customers are ready to buy. However, deliverability depends on engagement (opens, clicks), so sending irrelevant content backfires. Backstroke solves the "what" problem, but send-time optimisation and segmentation (the "when" and "who") remain separate challenges.

Backstroke focuses exclusively on B2C e-commerce in North America due to language complexity and GDPR privacy requirements in Europe. The platform serves impulse-purchase categories (apparel, furniture, bedding) differently than considered purchases (mattresses, cars), with separate trained models for each. Notable customers include Third Love (women's intimates), Cozy Earth (bedding), Helix (mattresses), and Emile Henry (cookware), representing the apparel and home goods verticals where Backstroke has developed deep expertise.

RJ's 18-month roadmap focuses on building predictive marketing agents that complete marketing tasks generatively while humans serve as brand stewards and strategists. This vision extends beyond email to SMS, apps, and landing pages, with personalisation as a core feature. Graham notes the challenge of making such systems intuitive enough for non-technical users, reflecting the broader industry shift toward AI-augmented rather than AI-replaced marketing roles.

While Backstroke is currently North America-focused, RJ is open to European partnerships but wants to be proactive about compliance. GDPR itself isn't a blocker, but European customers require security documentation and certifications that Backstroke hasn't yet obtained. The company recently achieved SOC 2 compliance (required by enterprise businesses) and plans to secure necessary privacy certifications before entering European markets, avoiding disqualification during sales cycles.

In the wrap-up, RJ praises the podcast for getting past fluff into real marketing challenges, appreciating the nitty-gritty discussion of how marketers actually work. Graham and Kevin reflect that the conversation revealed AI's potential to solve the "what" problem while highlighting remaining challenges in "when" and "who" decisions. They note that Kevin's observation about sending less email more effectively captures the core tension: personalisation should enable quality over quantity, but frequency remains a competitive necessity in current email marketing practice.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

Allan Kazakh runs an agency specialises in generating exclusive, high-intent leads for annuity products. It is called Vroom Media Group. Annuity leads are a type of financial product that provides a guaranteed stream of income in retirement.

Allan runs a marketing agency that helps life insurance agents and financial advisors get more customers online. His agency specializes in generating exclusive, high-intent leads for annuity products, which are a type of financial product that provides a guaranteed stream of income in retirement. Allan explained how his team crafts targeted ads based on the specific pain points and needs of different customer profiles, such as affluent clients concerned about taxes versus average consumers looking for income stability.

Allan provided an overview of annuity products in the US market, explaining how they differ from traditional investments and serve as a "safety vehicle" for retirees looking to preserve their capital. He discussed how annuities have become more popular during economic downturns when the stock market is volatile, as they offer a guaranteed return. Allan also highlighted the importance of understanding the macroeconomic climate and how it impacts consumer sentiment when developing marketing strategies.

Allan detailed his agency's approach to advertising, which primarily utilizes Meta (Facebook and Instagram) ads. He explained how they target specific customer profiles and tailor the ad creative and messaging to resonate with each group's unique pain points and needs. This includes using podcast-style ads, video ads, and other formats to grab attention. Allan also discussed the importance of testing multiple creatives to find what works best.

Allan discussed how his agency has leveraged AI to improve productivity and scale the business. By automating certain tasks like video creation, his team can produce more content and test more ad variations. Allan believes AI will continue to change the nature of work, but sees it as a tool to empower his team rather than replace jobs.

In the closing segment, Graham and Kevin reflected on the key insights from the discussion, including Allan's ability to identify and target specific customer pain points, his data-driven approach to advertising, and his use of AI to drive efficiency. They noted Allan's expertise in a niche market and his success in outperforming competitors through his marketing strategies.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com

Steve Turner is a multimedia PR expert. Solomon/Turner has managed and executed dozens of targeted campaigns for clients of all sizes. The firm enjoys a special expertise in both businesses to business and business to consumer publicity, as well as reputation management. Solomon Turner maintains an extensive list of relationships with many key members of the media from television, newspapers and trade journals.

Kevin and Graham introduce their guest Steve Turner, an expert in public relations who has written a book on the subject. They highlight his background in sports commentary and media work.

Steve shares the history of how he founded his PR firm Solomon Turner, starting in radio and advertising before transitioning to PR and merging with an advertising agency run by his now-wife Shelly.

Steve explains the concept of thought leadership and how he has helped clients like an author on Jeep history establish themselves as experts in their fields through media appearances, speaking engagements, and other PR tactics.

Steve outlines a 5-step process for developing an effective PR campaign: 1) Defining clear objectives, 2) Identifying the target audience, 3) Crafting the right messaging, 4) Selecting the right delivery channels, and 5) Measuring the results and ROI.

Steve discusses how PR has evolved in the digital age, with the rise of social media and podcasts providing new channels for thought leadership and third-party endorsement. He cautions against over-reliance on AI-generated content.

Graham founded Finely Fettled in 2014 to provide data from The UK High Net Worth Database to marketers targeting affluent and high-net-worth customers. He's the founder of MicroYES, a Partner for MeclabsAI, creating lead generation AI Agents & Workflows and introducing the MeclabsAI Platform. Graham also provides an Answer Engine Optimisation solution to get your website in shape to be found by LLMs.

Kevin specialises in finance transformation and implementing business change. He's the COO of GrowCFO, which provides both community and CPD-accredited training designed to grow the next generation of finance leaders. You can find Kevin on LinkedIn and at kevinappleby.com