April 21, 2026

The normals | Episode 3

33 minutes

The final of a three-part limited Science Podcast series that looks at the history of normal human subjects in research

In episode two, we heard what happened to the normals program after church volunteers came to the U.S. National Institutes of Health’s Clinical Center—and were surprisingly happy despite going through sometimes-painful procedures. In the decades to follow, the program got bigger as government funding expanded and started to recruit more broadly, stepping away from specific religious groups toward recruiting from colleges, universities, and unions.

In this episode, we hear about how normal human subjects experience research today and the ways the normals project influenced oversight and safety for these sometimes vulnerable people.

All episodes in this series

Appearing in this episode:

Laura Stark, history professor at the Center for Medicine, Health, and Society at Vanderbilt University

Jill Fisher, professor of social medicine in the Center for Bioethics at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Kaviya Manoharan, lecturer and clinical research program manager in the Centre for Clinical Pharmacology, SRM Medical College Hospital and Research Centre

Martin Enserink, deputy news editor at Science

Kevin McLean, Science multimedia managing producer

Sarah Crespi, Science Podcast senior host and producer

Additional resources:

BOOKS

The Normals: A People’s History of Modern America in Five Human Experiments by Laura Stark

Adverse Events: Race, Inequality, and the Testing of New Pharmaceuticals by Jill Fisher

NEWS STORIES

Global effort aims to protect health and safety of human ‘guinea pigs’ in drug trials by Martin Enserink

Key global bioethics guidelines get ‘dramatic’ update by Cathleen O’Grady

WEBSITES

Volrethics

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By Science Magazine

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